Child Passport Question

[Moerby]

Hello folks, I'm divorced and I'm applying for a passport for my child. The question I have is regarding the following question in the passport application in Section 2:

Are there any separation agreements, court orders or legal proceedings pertaining to custody or mobility of, or access to the child? Yes / No

The things is, my ex and I parted ways amicably and we both have joint physical and legal custody of my child, and that arrangement was uncontested from the get-go. There are no separation agreements (we're not separated anymore, we're legally divorced), there is no court order that I'm aware of (I don't think there are "court orders" for uncontested joint custody cases, at least we didn't get any official paperwork to that effect), and there are no legal proceedings. So, it was pretty much the most straight-forward divorce imaginable. It seems to me then that the he answer to above question should be "No", but wouldn't they want proof that I have joint custody, and if so, do I need to answer "Yes" and provide that proof and what would that "proof" be?

Looking for some guidance/confirmation here...

[sillysimms]

In situation like this, it would likely be best to check with Passport Canada. According to their website, if there is a divorce they will want to see all documents regarding custody of your child. Since it says they may request additional information for clarification, it might be best to call and see what they'll require in your case.

I would interpret a separation agreement to be the agreement dividing all property,debts, custody etc. and not think that they are only referring to people that are separated and not divorced when asking that question. If it was me answering (and I may be wrong), I would think the answer would be yes. The agreement giving you joint physical and legal custody of the child is what I would interpret them to be referring to.

http://www.ppt.gc.ca/support/faq.aspx?lang=eng&id=04662
If I am divorced or separated and want to obtain a passport for my child, are there any additional documents that I need to submit?

All documents pertaining to the custody of the child are required for examination. However, additional information may be required once the documentation is submitted if Passport Canada determines that clarification of the situation is necessary.

I vaguely remember a friend of mine applying for a passport for her child. I don't know how she answered the question, but I believe since she also had a situation of joint custody, both parents had to sign. If one parent had sole custody, I believe she was told that was the only parent that could apply for the passport.

[jasmom]

Hi You could also ask at your member of parliments office. When we applied for passports we took them there and they looked them over and sent them in. They also contacted us when we had to get different photos, instead for the passport office sending them back. It was easy to go through the MP's office because they helped if there was a problem.

[CSK'sMom]

There really should be some sort of documentation regarding the custody arrangement in the final divorce documents. If there isn't I would say that you need to deal with this issue asap. If everything was/is as amicable as you say it should be fairly straight forward and just putting the verbal agreement on paper. Without some kind of documentation to protect your butt what happens if things get messy some day. Also without the documentation you may very well have difficulties even taking the child to the US, let alone anywear else, thanks to all the new parental abduction and amber laws...

[Moerby]

Thanks for all the feedback folks!

Just to clarify - we stipulated the precise custody arrangements on the divorce application, but the Divorce Order (form 25A) we received back that made the divorce "official" doesn't stipulate any custody arrangements. Not sure if that is an oversight or if that's just because the custody arrangements was mutually agreed upon and uncontested in the application.

Does anyone know if copies of the divorce application itself (where the custody arrangements are stipulated and based on which the divorce order was granted) would be acceptable documentation? If not, would an agreement drawn up and signed by my ex and myself be acceptable? I've scoured the government web sites and I'm more confused about this now than I was before!

Thanks!

[CSK'sMom]

I don't know if it was an oversight moerby but I don't think it's in your best interest (or the child's) to not have everything layed out in a binding court order. As for using the divorce application, who knows if they will accept that because there is an order of divorce issued. Personally, if it was me in your shoes, I'd be paying the couple of hundred dollars and seeing a family law attorney with your ex to have everything put in writing. There will be things down the road (like school) where they will want to see the documentation for custody...

[Canuck32]

Since you did not request a custody order from the court, all that is going to be issued is a divorce order. Besides the fact that the courts are pretty backed-up to begin with, what business it is of the courts to make orders on matters that the parties don't want to litigate?

The wording of the question does not seem to be asking that any documents be provided to Passport Canada. I think all you need to say is that you are divorced and you share custody of the child.

When travelling with the child, it's best to have a notarized letter from the other parent granting permission to travel/cross international borders with the child. Any parent travelling alone with a child should have this, divorced or not. While you may certainly have the right to travel with the child, this letter may avoid you a headache.

It's nice to see cordial divorces. Some of them can get very messy.

[yyzvoyageur]

If you think, to the best of your knowledge, that the answer is "no", I think you should answer as such. When you travel internationally with your child, be sure to have your ex write a letter of consent (ideally, have it notorised):

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/before/consent_letter-en.asp

[Moerby]

A quick update in case someone else run into the same issue ...

Went into the passport office today and the fact that I was divorced without a court order or some other legal document re. the custody arrangements did raise a flag. I had the Divorce Order (form 25A) with me though, and explained to situation to the clerk. She then spoke to her supervisor and eventually the application was accepted after I wrote and signed a declaration that there is no court order, etc. regarding the custody agreement. Not 100% sure about this, but I think they may have also called the family court where we filed the divorce application to confirm the custody arrangements. Had I mailed the applications, or if my ex didn't co-sign the passport application, I'm pretty sure it would have been rejected.

Also, I spoke to a lawyer about the fact that the Divorce Order doesn't stipulate the custody arrangements from the application and it's pretty much what Canuck32 said - the Divorce Order simply grants the divorce based upon the divorce application, so it is not uncommon for the Divorce Order to make no mention of the custody arrangements, especially in cases where the divorce application specifies shared custody arrangements and is uncontested. From a legal point of view, the shared physical/legal custody arrangements specified in the divorce application is however legally binding and remains in effect until one of the parents decides to contest those arrangements later on. Having said that, she highly recommended getting the custody arrangements in writing on a separate letter and notarized because it will make life a bit easier for both parents (as we have discovered). We can draw up a letter ourselves, or have it done through a lawyer (which is what we're going to do).

Thanks again for everyone's input!