CA Big 4 Accepting Offers

[bluejays99]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience receiving more than one offer from the big 4 and if they have ever attempted to try and get a signing bonus/increase salary or anything like that out of it. If so how would you go about doing that. As well how do you go about decling offers without really burning any bridges? Any information would be really appreciated.

[bluejays99]

bump

[teufel-man]

threaten them

[cbosh4]

I am in the situation the OP has posted and was wondering if anyone had any real advice. I mean you don't want to damage a relationship before starting to work.

[watewate]

those who demanded signing bonus and/or higher pay were ridiculed. no joke. big-4 have no interest, especially nowadays, to drive up the agreed-upon starting salaries by being flexible. there's ZERO chance of them offering you any kind of bonus or higher pay.

big-4s have a handshake agreement on starting figures for a particular market. the only leeway they have is when they sign back summer students. i've seen some get 1K to 3K higher than others. but that's about it.

i remember this one particular person who demanded signing bonus AND higher pay. i think people were pretty much turned off, and didn't really pursue him/her that hard to sign-on.

more logical way to bargain is to ask to be staffed on a specific client or be placed in a particular group. they can probably work that out, especially if they like you.

at the end of the day, 1K increase probably works out to something like $30 per pay cheque. don't risk getting ridiculed ...

[winner2000]

LMAO there's like 50 people waiting to accept a position if you play hardball with them -- trust me IT.WILL.NOT.FLY.

Silly SA1s thinking they can negotiate a signing bonus... :rolleyes:

[theprodigy]

LMAO there's like 50 people waiting to accept a position if you play hardball with them -- trust me IT.WILL.NOT.FLY.

Silly SA1s thinking they can negotiate a signing bonus... :rolleyes:

Isn't that a common misconception though? I mean, even if you're a newbie, I don't see why you can't negotiate something better if you have some sort of leverage or a valid reason to do so. They spend a lot of time and resources in selecting the ideal candidate. I don't think they would look down on you for something like this...it's just part of the process. Worse case scenario, they would just decline, and you would still have your original offer in hand still. You're dealing with HR anyways, so there is no real direct impact with regards to those you're working day-to-day with.

[redg2]

Isn't that a common misconception though? I mean, even if you're a newbie, I don't see why you can't negotiate something better if you have some sort of leverage or a valid reason to do so. They spend a lot of time and resources in selecting the ideal candidate. I don't think they would look down on you for something like this...it's just part of the process. Worse case scenario, they would just decline, and you would still have your original offer in hand still. You're dealing with HR anyways, so there is no real direct impact with regards to those you're working day-to-day with.

I agree. When my friend went back to work at a company he spent 2 summer terms with, his manager asked him to negotiate for 20% more of the base salary because she felt he was more valuable than the average entry level.

Why would your manager care if you got paid more? its not like its out of their pocket.....the higher paid u are, the higher your manager can ask for.

HR are the people you deal with anyways....salary info is confidential to most people.

[winner2000]

I agree. When my friend went back to work at a company he spent 2 summer terms with, his manager asked him to negotiate for 20% more of the base salary because she felt he was more valuable than the average entry level.

Why would your manager care if you got paid more? its not like its out of their pocket.....the higher paid u are, the higher your manager can ask for.

HR are the people you deal with anyways....salary info is confidential to most people.

Yes, but that was AFTER he spent 2 summer terms with the company -- not as a fresh hire.

Just think of entry-accounting positions to those at McDonalds (because it IS essentially the same thing), and how silly you'd feel (and how silly you'd look) negotiating a signing bonus. It rarely happens unless you're applying for a specialized position or applying for something other than SA1 (i.e. a noob)

[redg2]

Yes, but that was AFTER he spent 2 summer terms with the company -- not as a fresh hire.

Just think of entry-accounting positions to those at McDonalds (because it IS essentially the same thing), and how silly you'd feel (and how silly you'd look) negotiating a signing bonus. It rarely happens unless you're applying for a specialized position or applying for something other than SA1 (i.e. a noob)


Yes I agree, certain people at entry level will not be able to negotiate higher salary/signing bonus. But I guess it depends on your experience? If you're a new grad who did PEY(16 months internship) at UToronto, then you could probrably ask for more than a normal graduate at a company you've never worked before. Same with people who need to commute/relocate (e.g. RIM in Waterloo). If you have good reasons to get a higher salary, than just say it. Big companies will probrably act accordingly.

[LaymanX]

It all depends on how valuable your skill set/experience is.

Are you irreplaceable? Then yeah, you have some leverage. Is all your knowledge from school and common? Then no, I would just accept the offer.

[bluejays99]

Well I know I don't really have any leverage. I had just heard that these firms did offer signing bonuses from previous professors but seeing as I haven't received any I was just wondering about them. I know I'm new and are pretty much indespensible I was just wondering if these firms were going to think along the lines "I don't want to lose this guy to our competition". I figure I could maybe try asking for one at my last choice of placement and then if it doesn't work I still have a couple offers to fall back on.

[MarkIII]

For a big 4, every new hire out of school is a replaceable by an another equal skilled hired. So dont fool yourself by negotiating higher salary.

[LaymanX]

Well I know I don't really have any leverage. I had just heard that these firms did offer signing bonuses from previous professors but seeing as I haven't received any I was just wondering about them. I know I'm new and are pretty much indespensible I was just wondering if these firms were going to think along the lines "I don't want to lose this guy to our competition". I figure I could maybe try asking for one at my last choice of placement and then if it doesn't work I still have a couple offers to fall back on.

Two points:
1) Over 750,000 jobs were lost in Finance this year so far in North America alone. That's a sobering statistic, especially considering that some of those unemployed will come to Ontario to find work. I already see an onslaught of Lehman and Merrill Lynch at my bank.

2) It depends on the area in your particular bank. The general rule of thumb, the closer you are to the money ie. investment banking, the more lucrative it is. So, if you got the offer for an accounting or compliance position.. I wouldn't expect a signing bonus. If it's for prop trading, then MAYBE.

[SQneo]

There's no signing bonus for a newbie. The only people who were offered a signing bonus were summer students/co-ops since the firm has already trained them and they have some experience.

Similar to someone else has posted, the all the Big 4 offers the same wage to all new hires (they DO NOT compete on the wages, since they know you NEED them to get the required hours to obtain your CA, and training for the exams). Another reason is that they give out more offers than the number of staff they need to hire since they only expect a certain % will sign with them. So they don't care if you do not sign with them since it was expected and incorporated into the calculation of the number of offers to give out.

[TotallyKiller]

I agree. When my friend went back to work at a company he spent 2 summer terms with, his manager asked him to negotiate for 20% more of the base salary because she felt he was more valuable than the average entry level.

Why would your manager care if you got paid more? its not like its out of their pocket.....the higher paid u are, the higher your manager can ask for.

HR are the people you deal with anyways....salary info is confidential to most people.

What you make has no effect on what your manager can bill you at. It's your position. Negotiating after coming back from co-op is not uncommon, but normally also unnecessary as most former co-ops will be considered "experienced hires" and get a higher pay than normal base.

[antime1]

totallykiller is right. Correct me if im wrong but i believe waterloo coops write their ufe right off the bat because of the coop time + theyve already done the cke and soa. Theyve essentially got a year on new hires so yes they get more money (it does take them longer tho)

[balance]

totallykiller is right. Correct me if im wrong but i believe waterloo coops write their ufe right off the bat because of the coop time + theyve already done the cke and soa. Theyve essentially got a year on new hires so yes they get more money (it does take them longer tho)

yep waterloo is the only university that allows you to write the ufe right after =O

[bluejays99]

Well first off I'm not trying to negotiate salary and I know the big 4 all agree and set wages. I did work at an accounting firm this summer outside of the big four so its not like I have no experience. Any ways I'm just trying to swing a small signing bonus as it would be nice to relieve my starving student status for a while. I'd also sign right away if they offered me one. I do realize I'm highly replaceable but I might as well try. I figure I'm going to try asking one firm and see what response I get. No harm in asking right?

Some advice from someone who has received a signing bonus and wasn't a coop hire would be great! Or someone just from teh big 4 in general.

[SQneo]

Well first off I'm not trying to negotiate salary and I know the big 4 all agree and set wages. I did work at an accounting firm this summer outside of the big four so its not like I have no experience. Any ways I'm just trying to swing a small signing bonus as it would be nice to relieve my starving student status for a while. I'd also sign right away if they offered me one. I do realize I'm highly replaceable but I might as well try. I figure I'm going to try asking one firm and see what response I get. No harm in asking right?

Some advice from someone who has received a signing bonus and wasn't a coop hire would be great! Or someone just from the big 4 in general.

I'm from a Big 4 (and I've done some recruiting), and the Big 4 world is not as glamorous as you think it is.....

You've pretty much got your answer. There is no such thing a "someone who has received a signing bonus and wasn't a coop" so you will not be getting the answer that you are looking for. Summer students/co-op are paid a bonus not for "experience", but rather the time and money the firm has already invested in them for training. Returning students can start working immediately (or will only attend a mini refresher training course), therefore the firms do not need to re-train them. A new hire will go through extensive training which is costly @ 10 days * daily wage + expenses (hotels/food etc.) = $3,000+. Each firm has it's own standards/how they like things done, so your experience from a small firm is n/a. They will not a new hire a bonus, since all the returning co-ops will be screaming bloody murder. I know for a fact that returning co-ops (with 1 term or 2 terms) start at the same salary as a new hire, and the bonus is small.

I wouldn't be surprise if all the firms has an understanding in advance that none of them are too offer signing bonuses. The big 4 world is very small and you'll be surprise how fast word will travel between firms. You might think there is no harm done (in the short term), but keep in mind that there's only 4 big firms - so in the future if you do plan to switch firms (this happens more often then you think), anything you do now could come back and haunt you...

[dealtacular]

I'm from a Big 4 (and I've done some recruiting), and the Big 4 world is not as glamorous as you think it is.....

You've pretty much got your answer. There is no such thing a "someone who has received a signing bonus and wasn't a coop" so you will not be getting the answer that you are looking for.

I have 2 offers with a signing bonus, and I didn't do co-op or an internship. However, I don't think you would be able to successfully negotiate for one if you weren't offered it.

[SFA]

I have 2 offers with a signing bonus, and I didn't do co-op or an internship. However, I don't think you would be able to successfully negotiate for one if you weren't offered it.

I am not calling you a liar.. but I really have a hard time believing you got offered a signing bonus.

[Knarfon]

I believe him, but not because he's better than anyone else but because everyone gets a bonus at signature (at least, in my area).