Need specific experience for an entry level job...wtf?

[kin0kin]

I'm getting annoyed with these accounting companies needing specific experience of a particular accounting software for even an entry level position. I have applied to many jobs, some need this, some need that...there are over hundreds and thousands of softwares out there. How is it possible to even get a job? :mad:

[BananaHunter]

With regards to software, just put the common ones on your resume. Quickbooks, Great Plains. Then go learn it yourself. A lot of accounting software have similarities so learning one and putting it on resume should be good.

Yes it's ********. The young generation grew up with computers and like 99% of us can learn software in a snap. When a company states job requirements, it's just a wish list. If they happen to come across someone with that rare software exp, they benefit. Whereas if in their ad they don't post it, the chance of finding that unique person decreases.

Don't let it get to you. Just apply anyways and if you score an interview, make sure to tell them you're good with software.

[dandy2008]

Quickbooks, Great Plains, Accpac and the likes are used by small companies and are worthless if you want to work for a multinational.

[kin0kin]

I have applied to countless jobs, and seriously, I don't know how long I can survive like this. Only a handful of people get back to me and most of the replies I received either ask if I have experience of this or that, otherwise it's just a reply telling me that "unfortunately you need xxxxx experience". I very humbly replied that I am a very quick learner, and I have experience in Simply Accounting. I am also very computer-oriented, and I've learned to design/cook phone roms (Windows mobile OS), and yada yada myself in very short period of time. I'm not even sure if these employers bother reading resumes to learn about a person besides hoping to match someone with "experience" that is 100% to their needs.

I know I am not alone. I've browsed through Kijiji and to my surprise, there are MANY people that's in my situation. B.Com/Business graduates majoring in Accounting, and not getting a job. Instead, needing to advertise to work for free in order to get experience. I'd really appreciate any help possible, I desperately need a job. I even applied to Walmart, and other retail jobs and didn't hear anything. As far as they are concerned, people like me seem to be over-qualified for jobs like that, and under-qualified for jobs where we should be working in. Please help me out....>:(

[BananaHunter]

be more aggressive. Act like you already know how to use the software, even if you don't. I know exactly what you are talking about. Most software are ridiculously easy and you can master the basics within first day of the job without ever using it.

Definitely put Excel on your resume. Excel has lots of advanced functions. Many companies use Excel along with other accounting software so make sure you know Excel.

Keep trying. ******** more. You don't necessarily have to lie. Just practice selling yourself better. Being humble doesn't help that much IMO.

Good luck.

[dandy2008]

I have applied to countless jobs, and seriously, I don't know how long I can survive like this. Only a handful of people get back to me and most of the replies I received either ask if I have experience of this or that, otherwise it's just a reply telling me that "unfortunately you need xxxxx experience". I very humbly replied that I am a very quick learner, and I have experience in Simply Accounting. I am also very computer-oriented, and I've learned to design/cook phone roms (Windows mobile OS), and yada yada myself in very short period of time. I'm not even sure if these employers bother reading resumes to learn about a person besides hoping to match someone with "experience" that is 100% to their needs.

I know I am not alone. I've browsed through Kijiji and to my surprise, there are MANY people that's in my situation. B.Com/Business graduates majoring in Accounting, and not getting a job. Instead, needing to advertise to work for free in order to get experience. I'd really appreciate any help possible, I desperately need a job. I even applied to Walmart, and other retail jobs and didn't hear anything. As far as they are concerned, people like me seem to be over-qualified for jobs like that, and under-qualified for jobs where we should be working in. Please help me out....>:(

This is depressing. Most B.Com/Business grads from Canadian universities have no problem finding entry-level accounting/finance jobs.
Kin0kin's story sounds familiar if he/she was an immigrant to Canada.

[bruizeman]

I hear ya on the overqualified bit...

The things I've been going for ask for 1-3 yrs experience, and everytime I apply to one of those I get dinged with the overqualified bit (I have 1 yr experience) or "this position is too junior for you".

Then I get interviews from postings asking for 7 yrs experience....

I just want a corpfin analyst role :(

I won't say no to a "Senior Manager, Derivative Products" or a "Controller" position... but, i just feel that the analyst role would be perfect. GRRF:mad:

[setell]

This is depressing. Most B.Com/Business grads from Canadian universities have no problem finding entry-level accounting/finance jobs.
Kin0kin's story sounds familiar if he/she was an immigrant to Canada.

Sorry didn't really get your first statement.

It is depressing and I went through what KinOkin is going through. I got rejected left and right by jobs that I was over qualified for! All I can say OP is to keep applying, track or keep a log of who you applied to and than reapply after a certain period of time. It was about a year for me before I landed a decent job. You'll get a job.

[BananaHunter]

This is depressing. Most B.Com/Business grads from Canadian universities have no problem finding entry-level accounting/finance jobs.
Kin0kin's story sounds familiar if he/she was an immigrant to Canada.

Not true at all. Many have trouble. Most students want a job right after graduation. After months of searching, one does get fed up and start posting on RFD. There are people that can get offers left and right. There are also the opposite where they can barely get an interview. It boils down to your experience and people skills. Your degree really IS just a piece of paper and it's your job to convince someone your degree is worth something. A university degree just doesn't have the obvious value it used to have. You are right however. Immigrants do have greater difficulty.

Yes it's very depressing. Every student go into university with the expectation that there'll be a decent paying job after it. For some, it becomes reality. For some, there's a couple months of feeling worthless before you hone up your job hunt skills/resume enough to land something.

There's also an increasing number of grads who can't land something and go back to school for a second degree/higher education. The supply of uni grads is just that much larger than decades ago.

[sleepyguy]

Learn some Crystal Reports... damn some of those people make a KILLING! :)

[branat]

I don't think it's learning the software is the problem. It's the practical/work experience in that software. I can set up server and install AccPac and know everything about it but it's still won't do me any good without expereince.

[Firebot]

I have applied to countless jobs, and seriously, I don't know how long I can survive like this. Only a handful of people get back to me and most of the replies I received either ask if I have experience of this or that, otherwise it's just a reply telling me that "unfortunately you need xxxxx experience". I very humbly replied that I am a very quick learner, and I have experience in Simply Accounting. I am also very computer-oriented, and I've learned to design/cook phone roms (Windows mobile OS), and yada yada myself in very short period of time. I'm not even sure if these employers bother reading resumes to learn about a person besides hoping to match someone with "experience" that is 100% to their needs.

I know I am not alone. I've browsed through Kijiji and to my surprise, there are MANY people that's in my situation. B.Com/Business graduates majoring in Accounting, and not getting a job. Instead, needing to advertise to work for free in order to get experience. I'd really appreciate any help possible, I desperately need a job. I even applied to Walmart, and other retail jobs and didn't hear anything. As far as they are concerned, people like me seem to be over-qualified for jobs like that, and under-qualified for jobs where we should be working in. Please help me out....>:(

If you want to work at a regular job, leave off your degree on your resume. They know you aren't going to stay long if you are overqualified, so best to eliminate anything which would be used against you. This is the same if you were in school, it's better not to mention that you are only there temporarily.

[TotallyKiller]

I'm not sure, but I can't see where you have told us how long you have been out of school, what degree you have and what you did to try and get a co-op/internship when you were in your last two years. I assume you have a bComm. If not, then it's no surprise you are getting the response you are. IF you have a BComm, but didn't try and get any work in your last two years, why not? That's a way to get your experience while still going for entry-level jobs after grad.

Although I understand your position, I really don't yet understand what your qualifications are so I can't really figure out if you should be upset, or if your expectations are too high.

[ZoomZoom2006]

I got an even more stupid issue with the firms -- Applied for the entry level with some working experience part-time and got reject email from McKinsey senior recruitment because they considered me in the experienced class and certainly I am not qualified and I did not even apply for a more-than-an-entry level job! It seems like it's our fault for not having working experience and also our fault for having experience.

The firms are getting funny nowadays.

[kin0kin]

I don't think it's learning the software is the problem. It's the practical/work experience in that software. I can set up server and install AccPac and know everything about it but it's still won't do me any good without expereince.

I've posted a thread regarding catch 22 about getting a job. No job = No EXP; No EXP = No Job. When employer doesn't give new grads a chance, new grads are not going to be able to get a job, let alone getting practical experience. They are discounting a lot of high potential prospective employees by betting on the fact that an "experienced" person is always a better person than a new grad with no experience. Some people learn VERY quickly, and I'd categorize myself as being one of them.

I graduated in May 2007. YES, 2007. No, I did not get a Cum Laude but I have a B average. And no, I did not take the easiest electives to get A+ so that I can bump up my GPA. I took classes that were very challenging and that I was interested in, a few of them brought my GPA down but I had no remorse as I learned something from those classes. I have a B.Com in Accounting, and I'm sorry I didn't mention it but I had assume that most people would be able to guess that. I would not be applying to any IT jobs, not even entry level, if I didn't graduate with an IT degree. Just by looking at the description and requirements of an IT job already says enough that I am not qualified for it. I have not applied to anything that I am not qualified for, and by that, I mean either senior roles, or jobs that are completely out of my field of study.

I have been job hunting since I graduated. I applied to mostly entry level jobs, not just specific to Accounting, but to many very general entry level positions that I believe I would have no problem with. Or course, I did not apply to any other jobs that I am completely not qualified for, which I mentioned earlier. I did whatever I could to get a job. I advertised to work for free too, nobody actually gotten back to me. I did get a job in The Bay as a sales person but left shortly as I was in the transition to move over to Toronto. I was initially from Halifax, NS. I do not consider selling suits a career, not in my book.

Am I an immigrant? yes I am, I am a permanent residence but I am fluent in English, I can speak and write with little problems and by problems I really mean I am not literate enough to write a novel, or artistic poem...I'm not an artist, nor am I a linguistic expert :|. I do not speak with odd accent, and nobody that I've spoken to had trouble understanding me. Communication is NOT a problem. Ethnicity, race, and whether the person is an immigrant or not should NOT play any role in whether the person gets a job or not.

I just got back from an interview, really, I don't consider this as an interview with "inventory company". What the company does is that they count inventory for other their clients. The "interview" wasn't really an interview. We were just put there for a briefing. Then we were given some basic tests. One of the tests had 40 questions, which requires you to count how many items there are in the pictures. Almost like an IQ test, with blocks of stuff arranged randomly. We were given 5 mins to do it. I got 39/40 right, and the one that I got wrong...I skipped it because the arrangement was odd and I decided to do the others first...very basic common sense here. The "class average" was 21. The other test was just a simple test to see if you were knowledgeable enough to handle a remote-pc-barcode-scanner-with-built-in-wifi-which-runs-on-windows. Of course, it was a piece of cake...my cellphone is more advanced than that :lol: I got hired and is being paid $9 an hour. WOW, I paid so much for tuition, worked so darn hard, to be paid $9 an hour? I'm not trying to brag how smart I am, or not, but merely to express my disappointment and difficulties in getting a job that'd put my knowledge and skills to full use. I should be sitting in an office and getting paid at least 20+ an hour, but instead, I'd have to work in the lowest tier cr@p with people who have little to no education.

You have no idea how annoyed I was when I was in The Bay's managers' office. While sitting there waiting for the HR manager to show up, this lady in the office was doing something on the PC, typing at probably 10 wpm, and prolly getting paid at least 2 X I was being paid. :mad:

EDIT: I am so annoyed that I really feel like writing a formal letter a Deloitte/PWC and ask them about, how could a person like me, with no experience, but with an accounting degree, get an entry level job in their company. Or, what'd I need to do, to be able to obtain "XXXXX" position in their company.

[bruizeman]

Do it. But target an actual person (e.g. the recruiting manager) instead of HR.

[dexboyz]

I know how you feel. I recently graduated in April 2008, B.Comm majoring in accounting. Moved to Toronto in June with hopes of getting an entry level accounting job. Nothing..all companies require experience for even a menial job like accounts receivable clerk or wtv. It doesn't make any sense.So now, I'm working as a manager in the retail sector. I still do plan on pursuing something related to my field of study though, its just a matter of time. Chin up. Send me a pm if you're interested in working in the retail sector that pays better than $9 bucks and hour.

[dealtacular]

Am I an immigrant? yes I am, I am a permanent residence but I am fluent in English, I can speak and write with little problems and by problems I really mean I am not literate enough to write a novel, or artistic poem...I'm not an artist, nor am I a linguistic expert :|. I do not speak with odd accent, and nobody that I've spoken to had trouble understanding me. Communication is NOT a problem. Ethnicity, race, and whether the person is an immigrant or not should NOT play any role in whether the person gets a job or not.

What about your interpersonal skills?

You have a degree with a B average, which is nothing notable. What other experience do you possess? Work experience (in anything), extracurriculars, volunteer experience.

Many times, it is not the ethnicity or race that hinders immigrants, but it is language skills and a lack of awareness of the nuances of Canadian culture.

Your interview and networking skills may be lacking, or you could have a poor resume and cover letters. It could be many things.

[the_fm]

What about your interpersonal skills?

You have a degree with a B average, which is nothing notable. What other experience do you possess? Work experience (in anything), extracurriculars, volunteer experience.

Many times, it is not the ethnicity or race that hinders immigrants, but it is language skills and a lack of awareness of the nuances of Canadian culture.

Your interview and networking skills may be lacking, or you could have a poor resume and cover letters. It could be many things.

he has no work experience hence no interviews. i'm in the same position as him. because of my lack of experience (i only have 3 months as a bookkeeper from 4 years ago), i can't get a freaking interview. i applied to jobs where i am overqualified and to jobs where i am actually qualified and nothing. it's like they are scared of newly grads. it is depressing

[jimb]

depressing stories. things like this make me reconsider ever returning to canada. Have any of you tried job recruiters?

also, for the people applying for the entry levels. Do you have any sort of previous work experience (not necessarily relevant)?

are your cover letters strong? have applied to the big 4? big 4 take in plenty of ppl i heard due to high turnover

[dealtacular]

he has no work experience hence no interviews. i'm in the same position as him. because of my lack of experience (i only have 3 months as a bookkeeper from 4 years ago), i can't get a freaking interview. i applied to jobs where i am overqualified and to jobs where i am actually qualified and nothing. it's like they are scared of newly grads. it is depressing

Why should someone hire you over other candidates? What makes you special?

How do you have absolutely no experience of any kind? Even with an A+ average, if you have abolsutely nothing else on your resume, there is no reason to hire you. Success in the working world is not just based on how you did in courses in schools - there are many other skills you require as well.

I reviewed OPs previous thread, he also lists no other activities on his resume, except for working at his own business (which is still something). However, if an employer has OP with a B average and one item on his resume, while most other candidates will have other experience (extracurriculars, volunteer, work, etc.) and maybe a higher average, why hire OP?

[the_fm]

Why should someone hire you over other candidates? What makes you special?

How do you have absolutely no experience of any kind? Even with an A+ average, if you have abolsutely nothing else on your resume, there is no reason to hire you. Success in the working world is not just based on how you did in courses in schools - there are many other skills you require as well.

I reviewed OPs previous thread, he also lists no other activities on his resume, except for working at his own business (which is still something). However, if an employer has OP with a B average and one item on his resume, while most other candidates will have other experience (extracurriculars, volunteer, work, etc.) and maybe a higher average, why hire OP?

i agree with what you say but OP is fed up about no interviews too. i don't mind if someone's get hire over me because they have experience and i don't. but i'm annoyed by not having an interview so i can sell myself instead of not being hired

[A_guy]

EDIT: I am so annoyed that I really feel like writing a formal letter a Deloitte/PWC and ask them about, how could a person like me, with no experience, but with an accounting degree, get an entry level job in their company. Or, what'd I need to do, to be able to obtain "XXXXX" position in their company.

Lol, you don't need to write a formal letter; you probably won't get a response. I can't answer for PwC or Deloitte or any other firm, but from someone who has been there and done that and now sometimes sit on the other side of the fence, there are a few things I can tell you.

Accounting is a broad subject. Did you do your degree with public accounting (ie 51 credit hours) in mind? If not, that might be problematic for getting an interview with any public accounting firm.

Let's assume you did do the 51 and is geared for the CA route (because that's where the jobs are in the Big 4). Have you attended enough events to get to know the people who are going to be hiring you? Do you know enough about the firm to write a Cover Letter and Resume that is suitable for firm environment? If the answer is yes, I think you would have had a chance at an interview. I don't deny the competition is really high, but there is a chance. If CA's not your cup of tea, have you considered CRA or other types of jobs that train for other designations like CMA or CGA?

Let's face it, the reality of the job market is that companies don't want to train an entry level university grad just to have the person leave after a year or so because they "have experience" and can move on to "better opportunities". I have heard of companies hiring some 40+ year old individuals who just came out of a career change for entry level accounting. That's because they are relatively sure the individual is stable and will likely stay for a few years. In fact, most of these jobs are actually filled before they ever had to advertise for it.

I personally feel the generation today depends too much on the internet for the job hunting process. Networking is still the number 1 way of filling in positions with a reasonably qualified individual.

I certainly do feel for you and others who are caught in this situation. However, if you play the game right (and yes, ultimately, it is a game; there are right moves and there are wrong ones), you'll find that it is really not that bad.

Good luck!

[wacky632]

I know exactly what you mean, but Im gonna say its time to lie.

Find someone who owns a family owned business and say you did accounting for them, maintained general ledger created financial statements, used so and so software. Then have the owner be your reference, sure its dirty but its for a job you know you can do, so whats the problem. And start adding random things to your resume for extra carriculars... sports etc stuff like that.

Ive been applying to the same positions since the beginning of summer and nothing. Ive just recently had responses for very basic entry level administrative roles and csr roles in banks. I think now hiring should pick up a bit. But try looking into other administrative or office job roles too even if they dont require accounting. Make some bs as a volunteer for research assistant, office experience some where.

Good luck, i honestly feel for you man. Also just start going to banks, yourself... try registering for csc it'll give you a better chance of getting a job (but considering you're short on cash i doubt you have $1000 lying around just for some bs credential). Hiring managers at banks usually just refer you to their website, its usually awkward walking into a bank when you know thats what they're going to say but when you hit bottom and get desperate, just say to them you are absolutely 100% that you can do the job, come off as extremely confident and tell them what you are after.

[jimb]

btw, the experiences here are from toronto. any such stories from other parts? montreal, calgary, vancouver?

[ZoomZoom2006]

I know exactly what you mean, but Im gonna say its time to lie.

Find someone who owns a family owned business and say you did accounting for them, maintained general ledger created financial statements, used so and so software. Then have the owner be your reference, sure its dirty but its for a job you know you can do, so whats the problem. And start adding random things to your resume for extra carriculars... sports etc stuff like that.

Ive been applying to the same positions since the beginning of summer and nothing. Ive just recently had responses for very basic entry level administrative roles and csr roles in banks. I think now hiring should pick up a bit. But try looking into other administrative or office job roles too even if they dont require accounting. Make some bs as a volunteer for research assistant, office experience some where.

Good luck, i honestly feel for you man. Also just start going to banks, yourself... try registering for csc it'll give you a better chance of getting a job (but considering you're short on cash i doubt you have $1000 lying around just for some bs credential). Hiring managers at banks usually just refer you to their website, its usually awkward walking into a bank when you know thats what they're going to say but when you hit bottom and get desperate, just say to them you are absolutely 100% that you can do the job, come off as extremely confident and tell them what you are after.

yea, agree, tell a white lie, it's okay as long as you can cover it up. Wth those firms expect people to work in an accounting enviornment while they can choose other more interesting things to do in the interns.

[Firebot]

I got hired and is being paid $9 an hour. WOW, I paid so much for tuition, worked so darn hard, to be paid $9 an hour? I'm not trying to brag how smart I am, or not, but merely to express my disappointment and difficulties in getting a job that'd put my knowledge and skills to full use. I should be sitting in an office and getting paid at least 20+ an hour, but instead, I'd have to work in the lowest tier cr@p with people who have little to no education.

I've never even worked for under 9$/hr except when still in high school while in Toronto, and I've never had a degree (even though I did go in college). I got out of high school a decade ago. I've always been able to differentiate myself despite the degree handicap. While you are complaining about not having a job where your skills are being used, what have you done to differentiate yourself? Accounting is a broad subject and a very generic degree, and you have now been 1 year without a relevant job experience. This WILL hurt you. There simply isn't anything distinguishing you from other candidates. Of course, you need to get out of the catch 22 no job = no exp, no exp = no job, but what are you doing about it? A company simply won't put in the time to train a new and unexperienced accountant, when the market has so many readily available experienced accountants willing to work for the same amount. Accounting is almost just as badly inundated as the IT market.

Toronto's market is also awful these last few years, and Miller's Toronto isn't gonna get any better. You could move to a place like Calgary or Edmonton which is very short of able workers, and literally get given a job and sitting at a desk within a day of being in the city. Heck, you could go to Wendy's and get paid 12-13$/hr. Toronto (and definitely not Nova Scotia) is not one of those places. You need more then just 'accounting' as a way to sell yourself. A degree is really just a piece of paper until you apply it somehow.

While it seems I'm being overly harsh, you need to figure out how you can get a job. If it means having to volunteer at a company just to get experience, so be it (while moving to Toronto from Nova Scotia is a good step, you can do better if you are desperate to get that required experience). Another great way to get ahead is to work at a specific company for an unrelated position that doesn't use your degree but does require a degree, and once you have proven yourself you can apply from within for a more related position. You can do that within 6-12 months of being with the company, and your experience issues are completely gone and then some.

Complaining about the current methodology of recruiting isn't going to get anywhere. Yes it sucks, no it will not change anytime soon.

[the_fm]

btw, the experiences here are from toronto. any such stories from other parts? montreal, calgary, vancouver?

it's the same thing over here in Montreal (for accounting) but at least, most of the jobs, you have to go through a recruiting agency. in a way, it's not too bad because they can set you up with something that's more suited for you. if you want to be a CA, it's easy to find something but CMA/CGA, good luck. lots of entry jobs ask for 5+ year experience (which has to be relevant otherwise, not much consideration) but with only a college diploma. for a bachelor graduate, the picking is quite slim :o

i'm talking of course for those who are looking for a french only speaking environment. it seems to be different for an english speaking environment because less people are aiming at those

[kin0kin]

Thanks to all those who'd responded to my problem. I sincerely appreciate every comment in here. I'd try to reply what everybody has said, but I'd like to speak out what's in my mind right now. (i may miss some things)

I'm not surprised that networking is still the best way of getting a job. But I find that getting a job through networking is not the ideal way of hiring the ideal person for the job. I got my last position from HBC through networking. I was told that the bay is hiring, my friend pulled some strings and said some good thing about me, and I got an interview the next day. And naturally...I got the job the subsequent day. I'm not proud of it, I'd prefer to be hired through an impartial method. I'd like to be recognized by my skills and knowledge than because someone said some good thing about me. Unfortunately, it seems like the world is still operating this way. What's gonna happen to the next person who's in the same boat as me?

I was hired today by the inventory company because they gave me the chance and brought me in for the orientation. Within the first few minutes, they figured that I was the best candidate in the room. I can proof to employers that I CAN do the job, only if they give me the opportunity to proof it to them. If they don't even consider interviewing me, there's no way for me to proof it to them. How did I distinguish myself? or what have I been doing during the period of unemployment? I started my own photography business. Was it successful? I can't say for sure that it is, as I only got a lot of inquiries and potential customers AFTER I left from NS to Toronto. Yes, I have many people asking me to do weddings now, but unfortunately, I had to turn them down. The opportunity cost is very high, but really, I'm betting on the fact that my transition from Halifax to Toronto would lead to a better career in the near future. At this time, I'm not sure if it is that much better, I am getting some calls, yes, but they are mostly not related to what I studied or want to get into. I also self studied several electronics engineering subjects, designed some amplifier topologies, prototyped the design, and tried selling them. I am a very ambitious person, and I like exploring things. I am constantly learning things, and being a quick learner helps a lot. But I'd associate my quick learning to the fact that I am very curious about things and I like to learn, it makes absorbing things a lot faster as you put in more effort. Does the employers see that I am such a person? maybe...Are they looking to hire this kind of person? I dunno. Does this distinguish me from other people? I really don't know either.

Firebot, I appreciate your comments, and while being harsh :lol: , they are constructive and I have no problems taking constructive criticism. So far trolls have not shown up yet...which is good. :lol: I have already considered all that you have said. Getting into the firm that I want to be in first, then only worry about getting the right job in that firm is definitely one way of doing it. Let me say this, if Deloitte/PWC/EY hires me, I'd have no problem sticking to them. I don't believe there are many people who'd leave big companies like this. When they hire someone, they are already aware of the fact that most people are going to stick with to them; they are not wasting resources training people. They do internship, and also hire new grads. I have applied, but all I am seeing now is that the ads are expiring, and I wasn't considered. Let's put it this way, if they'd rather hire an experienced person to fill in an entry level position, they'd hire a grad with good/normal standing grade, than trying to get new people from internship. I don't believe they can get "new ideas" from interns, and I bet that they are spending more resource in training interns than getting something from them. In other fields, I'd not say the same though.

What I studied was not CA-accredited. My university wasn't even CMA accredited but RIGHT AFTER I graduated, the program becomes CMA accredited. Speaking of luck and timing :mad: . Right now, I have about 95% of the subjects covered for CMA.

My previous resume was posted here in RFD for critique before. Thanks to all the advise, I have revised and rearranged many points. You can still find it by clicking on my ID and clicking on threads posted by me. Most people don't seem to think there's anything wrong with my resume. As far as cover letter, I have not posted it here before. I have written many different cover letter, and the recent one screams marketing sales pitch which I am actually kinda embarrassed to post it up but I figured it'd catch the attention of the person reading it.

I started this thread to whine about how can people like me find a job. But honestly, I'm trying to see if anybody has been in this situation and what did you do to get out of it. I now have 2 opportunity in front of me. One person asked me to teach her Simply Accounting, and another asked me to do taxes for the company. I'd prolly take their offers and put it in my resume.

[dealtacular]

i agree with what you say but OP is fed up about no interviews too. i don't mind if someone's get hire over me because they have experience and i don't. but i'm annoyed by not having an interview so i can sell myself instead of not being hired

Hiring, especially for full-time work, is not just based on the interview. With other candidates who have more on their resumes, why would they want to spend time on candidates who don't? Both need to be good if you want a good job.

btw, the experiences here are from toronto. any such stories from other parts? montreal, calgary, vancouver?

I don't think this has to do with the city you are in.

I'm not surprised that networking is still the best way of getting a job. But I find that getting a job through networking is not the ideal way of hiring the ideal person for the job. I got my last position from HBC through networking. I was told that the bay is hiring, my friend pulled some strings and said some good thing about me, and I got an interview the next day. And naturally...I got the job the subsequent day. I'm not proud of it, I'd prefer to be hired through an impartial method. I'd like to be recognized by my skills and knowledge than because someone said some good thing about me. Unfortunately, it seems like the world is still operating this way. What's gonna happen to the next person who's in the same boat as me?

I agree that networking (in the sense of an employee referral) is often not the best, but the advantage to it is that something about that person is known to someone within the firm. Usually, if you work somewhere, you won't recommend someone horrible because it could hurt your reputation. It doesn't get the best candidates, IMO, but more chance of a good candidate than a completely unknown hire.

You also don't seem to understand what networking actually means in the context it was written in some other posts. Networking is not just talking to who you know, it is meeting those you don't know (ex. recruiters or other employees) and communicating your interest and skills to these people. In some industries, this can be helpful in landing an interview.

Also, you are complaining that you aren't getting interviews, and then saying you would prefer to get hired impartially. You can't be too choosy when you aren't the one with the choices to make - you need to explore every avenue you can.

Honestly, no one should be in the same boat as you. If someone is having trouble finding a job and they have experience(anything), skills, and decent grades, I feel very bad for them. In your case, you are lacking in one of those three, and you do not seem to understand that this is your doing.

Firebot, I appreciate your comments, and while being harsh :lol: , they are constructive and I have no problems taking constructive criticism. So far trolls have not shown up yet...which is good. :lol: I have already considered all that you have said. Getting into the firm that I want to be in first, then only worry about getting the right job in that firm is definitely one way of doing it. Let me say this, if Deloitte/PWC/EY hires me, I'd have no problem sticking to them. I don't believe there are many people who'd leave big companies like this. When they hire someone, they are already aware of the fact that most people are going to stick with to them; they are not wasting resources training people. They do internship, and also hire new grads. I have applied, but all I am seeing now is that the ads are expiring, and I wasn't considered. Let's put it this way, if they'd rather hire an experienced person to fill in an entry level position, they'd hire a grad with good/normal standing grade, than trying to get new people from internship. I don't believe they can get "new ideas" from interns, and I bet that they are spending more resource in training interns than getting something from them. In other fields, I'd not say the same though.

Huh? Half of this makes no sense. As you state below, you lack the courses for these positions, yet you wonder why they aren't offering an interview. Did you attend any information sessions for these firms? And why, when you don't have a job and want a job at these firms, would you want to "stick it to them"?

Big companies, in most fields, don't expect new graduate recruits to have tons of directly related experience. However, you have almost NO experience in anything (extracurriculars, volunteer, work) and do not have a notable academic record. If they have people with better academic records and resumes applying, you won't get selected. What makes you special - why would a company want to interview you over other candidates?

What I studied was not CA-accredited. My university wasn't even CMA accredited but RIGHT AFTER I graduated, the program becomes CMA accredited. Speaking of luck and timing :mad: . Right now, I have about 95% of the subjects covered for CMA.

You can't just blame luck and timing - you would have known this when you entered the program.

You say earlier you wonder what it takes to be hired by a top CA firm and wish to write a letter, but you don't even have the courses. You can't blame them for that.

My previous resume was posted here in RFD for critique before. Thanks to all the advise, I have revised and rearranged many points. You can still find it by clicking on my ID and clicking on threads posted by me. Most people don't seem to think there's anything wrong with my resume. As far as cover letter, I have not posted it here before. I have written many different cover letter, and the recent one screams marketing sales pitch which I am actually kinda embarrassed to post it up but I figured it'd catch the attention of the person reading it.

The resume itself had few structural issues, but there isn't a whole lot on it in terms of experience in extracurricular or volunteer activities.

You don't want the cover letter to be too over the top, but don't be afraid of "selling yourself" to the employer. A huge part of hiring is how someone can frame their skills and accomplishments - it is an important demonstration of communication skills.

I started this thread to whine about how can people like me find a job. But honestly, I'm trying to see if anybody has been in this situation and what did you do to get out of it. I now have 2 opportunity in front of me. One person asked me to teach her Simply Accounting, and another asked me to do taxes for the company. I'd prolly take their offers and put it in my resume.

Even if these are not your ideal jobs, this will still great experience for you at this point. You'll be able to develop both workplace and soft skills. Good luck!

Also, I'm not trying to be harsh, as bad this post may sound at times. You just need to realize that you cannot blame employers and others for the situation you are in, and it is unlikely so many employers are discriminating against you in some way either. You need an attitude adjustment in your outlook, and you need to realize that you need to demonstrate why someone would want to take the time to interview you vs. someone else.

[poedua]

EDIT: I am so annoyed that I really feel like writing a formal letter a Deloitte/PWC and ask them about, how could a person like me, with no experience, but with an accounting degree, get an entry level job in their company. Or, what'd I need to do, to be able to obtain "XXXXX" position in their company.


Why don't you simply do some extensive networking and try and land as many ' information ' interviews as you can with people actually working working in the industry that you are targeting ?

Beyond that, I would give your resume a thorough going over by as many ' informed ' third parties as you can - it might be the case that your resume is sub par for a variety of reasons- i.e. it sucks.

And if you're striking out at interviews - despite the reason you're being given by employers for not being considered - in reality, other factors may be at play, - i.e your interviewing skills and personal appearance / presentation may be working against you.

Remember, your able to communicate and effectively present yourself and get along with co-worker / clients ( be a team player ) may carry as much weight ( if not more ) in an employers than if you know software ' X ' or ' Y ' etc. etc.

[poedua]

yea, agree, tell a white lie, it's okay as long as you can cover it up. Wth those firms expect people to work in an accounting enviornment while they can choose other more interesting things to do in the interns.

Brilliant advice.:rolleyes:

[dandy2008]

EDIT: I am so annoyed that I really feel like writing a formal letter a Deloitte/PWC and ask them about, how could a person like me, with no experience, but with an accounting degree, get an entry level job in their company. Or, what'd I need to do, to be able to obtain "XXXXX" position in their company.

The traditional way;

1- Enroll in a reputable accounting program which the Big 4 recruit from, in your case a Master of Accountancy.
2- Achieve high grades
3- Participate in extracurricular activities
4- Buff up your interview skills

Non Traditional way

Network, network, netwok

[dandy2008]

One more thing, there are hundreds if not thousands of immigrants who have extensive accounting experience with Fortune 500 companies from back home (India, Singapore, Brazil, Philippines etc) with accounting/finance designations (ACCA, CIMA, CFA etc) and are having a hard time finding accounting/finance jobs over here.

[kin0kin]

Hey folks, just wanted to follow up on the topic.

about a week or two later after I got my crappy inventory job, an agency called and asked if I was interested in an inventory position. I went for the interview and then instead of being interviewed for an inventory position, I was told that shipping position may be more suitable for me. The person who interviewed me was the co-chair of the company. I told a just about everything that I wrote in my resume. I kept calm and talked to casually, did my research on the company, and did my best to convince her of what I could do. I was given several different position to pick and I told her that I'd be most interested in an Admin position. I acted like myself and did not BS anything in the interview, no scripts, nothing.

When the next Monday came, I was offered a position in the front office despite what I was originally being hired for. I thanked her the first day I went to work for giving me this opportunity and I was really grateful that she did pick me as she could have picked many people with experience in the field.

I strive to perform the best I could and 5 days later I was offered a permanent position in the company as a team lead. Basically me and my partner would be taking care of the company's daily operations and report only to my manager.

the workplace is very awesome, and I love working with my partner. I still have to go through my agency's contract, which I dont have a problem with.

Last week, I went for the CRA's selection process and currently I'm waiting for the result to see if I'd get an interview. In the event that I do get an interview, should I take the gov job? I don't think it is particularly nice to leave the current company that I am working for now as the managers and the president of the company seem to look up on me a lot, and I'm constantly being given a lot of responsibilities. Another thing is that the company that I'm currently working for is growing (just moved to a facility twice the size, and they hired over 100 employees over two weeks) despite the economy being in recession.

I was considering negotiating for a pay & benefit that'd match gov job since they'd lose a valuable asset if I decided to leave. What do you thing I should do?

[dexboyz]

Congrats buddy! You finally found a job that you like...

[branat]

..... went to work for giving me this opportunity and I was really grateful that she did pick me as she could have picked many people with experience in the field.

..... I was considering negotiating for a pay & benefit that'd match gov job since they'd lose a valuable asset if I decided to leave. What do you thing I should do?

And you want to know why companies won't give new grads a chance? :mad: You agreed to a negotiated price and now you wanted more after a few weeks? Do you think she will give you a good reference?

[CSR]

prove (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prove)vs. proof (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proof)

[sardaukar]

I graduated in May 2007. YES, 2007. No, I did not get a Cum Laude but I have a B average. And no, I did not take the easiest electives to get A+ so that I can bump up my GPA. I took classes that were very challenging and that I was interested in, a few of them brought my GPA down but I had no remorse as I learned something from those classes.

Fatal mistake. You want to get into the big firms? Better have the marks. I was a member of the campus recruiting team at a Big 4 firm during the most recent hiring season. True, some people are able to get in with a 3.0 GPA or below, but in most cases they compensate for it with extracurricular activities / unique experiences / smooth schmoozing skills / insider connections.

In university, if I hadn't learned anything else I came away with this one golden rule: GPA is sacred, especially when you want to get into a big firm. Want to take a course that you're interested in but is notoriously difficult? Just sit in the lectures without official enrolment. If you're truly interested in the topic you'd walk away with just as much knowledge as you would have gained had you been enrolled in the course. And if the course doesn't allow one to sit in without official enrolment, then just get a few books from the library and read up on the material. Taking courses is not the only way you can learn about something, at least in business where most of it is theoretical in nature and doesn't heavily depend on laboratory work like life science or engineering.

If possible, always always always take the electives that offer the potential to 'inflate' your marks. After all, your GPA is one of the few, if not the only, objective metrics that employers can use to judge your competitiveness. No matter how fancy you make your qualitative skills sound, a shi$$ty mark is a shi$$y mark.

EDIT: I am so annoyed that I really feel like writing a formal letter a Deloitte/PWC and ask them about, how could a person like me, with no experience, but with an accounting degree, get an entry level job in their company.

You could've guessed it by now -- marks + good interview skills, or connections. Appropriate experience, of course, could help you, but is not mandatory for an entry level job.

Anyway, congrats on your new job!

[Zug_Zwang]

You could've guessed it by now -- marks + good interview skills, or connections

So in retrospect, we should of all simply joined a frat (connections) and taken bird courses (GPA inflation) throughout our respective academic careers. I guess hindsight is always 20/20.


Intellectual stimulation, what is it good for....absolutely nothin'..nothin'.

[kin0kin]

And you want to know why companies won't give new grads a chance? :mad: You agreed to a negotiated price and now you wanted more after a few weeks? Do you think she will give you a good reference?

I never agreed to any salary with the company regarding my permanent position there after the 6 months contract ends. I am now being compensated by the agency, not the company that I am working for.

[ACC-Major]

she made a big mistake hiring you lol.

So where is this company located? I need a new job stat.

[Firebot]

I was considering negotiating for a pay & benefit that'd match gov job since they'd lose a valuable asset if I decided to leave. What do you thing I should do?

How are you a valuable asset if you are literally looking for a job after you already have one, AND asking for your current employer to match another job offer salary while barely out of training? You would be shown the door faster then you could say "I think I deserve more money". Realize that in the end no matter how well you may be doing in your limited time there, you are still only a grad in an oversupplied market with no experience, with plenty of people who would be willing to the same job at the current pay mark.

Congrats on talking your way into getting a decent job, but your actions afterward is NOT the way to go around and get anywhere in a career. You are burning your bridges before you even stepped across it.

I never agreed to any salary with the company regarding my permanent position there after the 6 months contract ends. I am now being compensated by the agency, not the company that I am working for.

Do you seriously think that the agency pays out of their own pocket?

[fizzerd]

I never agreed to any salary with the company regarding my permanent position there after the 6 months contract ends. I am now being compensated by the agency, not the company that I am working for.

You are being paid by the agency as you are probably submitting your timesheet etc but the source of the money is your company and the agency takes a % of your actual hourly pay. So if the agency pays you $15/hr the company is actually paying probably $18-20 for that.

I think you should stay with the company for another couple of years. As the company is growing you might grow with them at a faster rate and a managerial position, after a couple of years, would look very good to the CRA!

[ACC-Major]

I never agreed to any salary with the company regarding my permanent position there after the 6 months contract ends. I am now being compensated by the agency, not the company that I am working for.

I need da name of your company lol. I am going for it, i need to get dahell out of my current dump, fast.

[gekkexx]

So in retrospect, we should of all simply joined a frat (connections) and taken bird courses (GPA inflation) throughout our respective academic careers. I guess hindsight is always 20/20.


Intellectual stimulation, what is it good for....absolutely nothin'..nothin'.

You cannot really underestimate the power of the GPA. At least in my experience, the GPA is really a way of ranking potential candidates. I remember my supervisor told me that he would go through the list of potential candidates and rank them first based on GPA and then later on based on other criteria before offering an interview. But I suppose this only applies for your first job out of university. I mean I was no where near the top of my class, maybe top 10% in a class of 140, but I think it definitely helped being near the top.

[sardaukar]

I need da name of your company lol. I am going for it, i need to get dahell out of my current dump, fast.

Where are you working at?

[apexuw]

I just found this thread today, and felt I understand what most of you are going through right now. When I was out of school with a BA Econ couple years ago, I was in the same situation and felt exactly like Kin0Kin, frustrated about the no exp - no job, no job - no exp situation.

I ended up doing a co-op graduate program in business, yes a co-op MBA, which is offered by schools such as McMaster, Windsor, etc. They are not top tier schools, but the co-op experience was valuable. Just something you guys can think about in a down time like this in the financial sector.

Oh, I also want to mention this. When you are turned down for a position today for whatever reason, think of it as the opportunity for you to take on the better position tomorrow. It works out like this for me everytime.

[coldeer]

Hey apexuw,
I am in the same boat as you were couple yrs back, what school you did get into for coop MBA and whats a decent GMAT score.
Thanks for the help,
coldeer

[Zug_Zwang]

You cannot really underestimate the power of the GPA. At least in my experience, the GPA is really a way of ranking potential candidates.

Yes, using the GPA is quick and practical. However my concern is with the shallowness of this methodology, which places all courses and programs on an equal footing. If quantitative ability is being sought, would you have more faith in someone who received an 80% in an 'Intro to Sociology" course versus a 70% in an Electrical Engineering course?

Could you imagine the implications for society, especially the scientific and academic fields, had everyone sought to take the easy route to boost their superficial "on paper" standing, rather than challenge themselves and learn?
And once again, while few other practical alternatives exist, this is but a statistic;

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."
- Aaron Levenstein