Winter Tire help

[gunsmokez]

Hello

Need help on getting some winter tire and steelies or maybe some alloys.
Car is 2005 MDX 235/65R17 is the tire size.

1. Michelin X-ice ? there is X-ice 2 but, don't think that is available for my car. Any other suggestions as this is friggin expensive. $235 bucks per tire quote from Costco.

2. Need some steel rims or even better Alloys if you know a place I can get them fairly cheap. Heard some people are able to fit Honda OEM rims (eg. honda oddessy and Ridgeline etc much cheaper then acura parts. I have no clue here.

3. My Car has a TPMS (reads the tire pressure) so, umm what should i be doing about this? I prefer to not have the light on my dashboard on the whole winter lol. Can i purchase a alloy/steel rim and buy a sensor or some sorts?? I'm clueless atm about this.

4. Heard also, its not wise to go with stock tire size for winter tires. Something to do with the amount of traction and rubber touching etc. Any comments on this?

Thanks

[hotweiss]

Hello

Need help on getting some winter tire and steelies or maybe some alloys.
Car is 2005 MDX 235/65R17 is the tire size.

1. Michelin X-ice ? there is X-ice 2 but, don't think that is available for my car. Any other suggestions as this is friggin expensive. $235 bucks per tire quote from Costco.

2. Need some steel rims or even better Alloys if you know a place I can get them fairly cheap. Heard some people are able to fit Honda OEM rims (eg. honda oddessy and Ridgeline etc much cheaper then acura parts. I have no clue here.

3. My Car has a TPMS (reads the tire pressure) so, umm what should i be doing about this? I prefer to not have the light on my dashboard on the whole winter lol. Can i purchase a alloy/steel rim and buy a sensor or some sorts?? I'm clueless atm about this.

4. Heard also, its not wise to go with stock tire size for winter tires. Something to do with the amount of traction and rubber touching etc. Any comments on this?

Thanks

1. The lattitude X-ice is what you have to get, it's the SUV version. It can handle the extra weight...

2. You can get steel rims or alloys. When buying either, you have to get ones that will match your vehicles specifications, so consult your dealer.

3. I'm not really sure, but if you use the same wheels you can use your old sensors. If you get new wheels you will have to buy new sensors and have them programmed.

4. The thinner the tire, the more pounds per square inch that will be exerted on the surface you are driving on. The higher ratio helps the tire compact the snow and carve though the snow for better traction. I would ask Acura what they would recommend.

[Pete_Coach]

You need tires for an SUV, not a car. They are built to withstand the additional weight and stress. Don't even look at anything else and do not compare. SUV tires will cost more.
Rims/wheels, you can spend as much as you want on rims but you do have an issue with TPMS. If you want the TPMS system to work then sensors will need to be installed on the wheels. The sensors plus installation of them can add up quickly. You can get universal steel rims at many places, make sure they are for an SUV as well.
There is a lot of anecdotal evidence about winter tire tread width but the bottom line is that on your L/H door post or frame is the tire and wheel size for your vehicle. If you get into an accident and have a lesser tire on your vehicle, you may be jeopardizing your ability to have the claim paid. Your anti lock system and stability system and traction control system are all there to give you the vehicle control summer or winter. Of course, in a sideways slide on ice or snow none of theses systems will ensure total control but neither will narrow tires.
Before all the naysayers bellow out opinions, if a tire retailer sells you a tire that is not approved for your vehicle, they are also putting themselves in a position of liability. There were even several threads here some time ago about retailers not installing tires on cars if they are not listed in the approved tire list or door frame.
I know you are on RFD to find a deal or save some money but you have an expensive vehicle and everything on it is expensive unfortunately.

[gunsmokez]

You need tires for an SUV, not a car. They are built to withstand the additional weight and stress. Don't even look at anything else and do not compare. SUV tires will cost more.
Rims/wheels, you can spend as much as you want on rims but you do have an issue with TPMS. If you want the TPMS system to work then sensors will need to be installed on the wheels. The sensors plus installation of them can add up quickly. You can get universal steel rims at many places, make sure they are for an SUV as well.
There is a lot of anecdotal evidence about winter tire tread width but the bottom line is that on your L/H door post or frame is the tire and wheel size for your vehicle. If you get into an accident and have a lesser tire on your vehicle, you may be jeopardizing your ability to have the claim paid. Your anti lock system and stability system and traction control system are all there to give you the vehicle control summer or winter. Of course, in a sideways slide on ice or snow none of theses systems will ensure total control but neither will narrow tires.
Before all the naysayers bellow out opinions, if a tire retailer sells you a tire that is not approved for your vehicle, they are also putting themselves in a position of liability. There were even several threads here some time ago about retailers not installing tires on cars if they are not listed in the approved tire list or door frame.
I know you are on RFD to find a deal or save some money but you have an expensive vehicle and everything on it is expensive unfortunately.


Good points there.Guess I'll stick to the manufacture specs for winter tire sizes. Never thought about the legal liability issue. Guess, I'll buy the tires from Costco X-ice from them. Steelies or alloys have to search around still for those.

[hotweiss]

Good points there.Guess I'll stick to the manufacture specs for winter tire sizes. Never thought about the legal liability issue. Guess, I'll buy the tires from Costco X-ice from them. Steelies or alloys have to search around still for those.

If you don't get the sensors (they are expensive), your TPMS light might only come on once and that's it.

[Spud72]

1: I have Dynapro Ipike (I think) RW07s on my 4Runner. I was quite pleased with them over the past winter. I bought them from Carmodifier.com and I found the prices/service excellent.

2: Buy steelies, and Car Modifier has them at a good price. You can almost certainly get a great deal buy buying the package deal.

3: I didn't. I lived with the light all winter. Personally, if it really bothered me I'd just put some tape over it or something and check your tire pressures regularly like you should anyhow.

4: Stick with the stock size.

Edit: I am not part of carmodifier.com or have any relations with them other than being a very satisfied customer.

[vek]

You don't have to go with stock size - going -1 is usually more effective and more economical.

Go to www.tirerack.com and the calculator will tell you the correct recommended winter wheel and tire size options for your car.

[Spud72]

You don't have to go with stock size - going -1 is usually more effective and more economical.

It is very easy to change size to keep the same effective OD. It is quite another to expect the smaller tire to have similar load capabilities. While it might be fine for a largely unloaded vehicle, you could quite easily be setting yourself up for a dangerous situation going for a trip with a car full of passengers and cargo and exceed the capacity of the tire.

This is generally not an issue for cars but is often an issue with light trucks or SUVs that is ignored by those not aware of the problem.

[santaclause]

Hello

Need help on getting some winter tire and steelies or maybe some alloys.
Car is 2005 MDX 235/65R17 is the tire size.

1. Michelin X-ice ? there is X-ice 2 but, don't think that is available for my car. Any other suggestions as this is friggin expensive. $235 bucks per tire quote from Costco.

2. Need some steel rims or even better Alloys if you know a place I can get them fairly cheap. Heard some people are able to fit Honda OEM rims (eg. honda oddessy and Ridgeline etc much cheaper then acura parts. I have no clue here.

3. My Car has a TPMS (reads the tire pressure) so, umm what should i be doing about this? I prefer to not have the light on my dashboard on the whole winter lol. Can i purchase a alloy/steel rim and buy a sensor or some sorts?? I'm clueless atm about this.

4. Heard also, its not wise to go with stock tire size for winter tires. Something to do with the amount of traction and rubber touching etc. Any comments on this?

Thanks

My winter tire has the same spec as your car. I downsized from 255/55 18 to 235/65 17. You should look into minus one size if you can for your MDX. It will give you better traction and may save you money. Before you buy
your tires for Costco, you should take a look at this Group Buy: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639602
My package include 4 x Michelin Latitude X-Ice, 4 x Alloy Wheel, 4 x Toyo Tire bag & Balance/Mounting for $1120 before the Group Buy Discount and Taxes. I will forgo the TPMS sensors and live with the warning light being on for the winter. For my car, each sensor will cost $105 plus taxes.

[vek]

It is very easy to change size to keep the same effective OD. It is quite another to expect the smaller tire to have similar load capabilities. While it might be fine for a largely unloaded vehicle, you could quite easily be setting yourself up for a dangerous situation going for a trip with a car full of passengers and cargo and exceed the capacity of the tire.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Tire Rack knows more about what tires are suitable for an application than to apply your generic statement of the dangers of -1 sizing. After all, they'd be liable for selling a dangerous application to a consumer.

[Spud72]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Tire Rack knows more about what tires are suitable for an application than to apply your generic statement of the dangers of -1 sizing. After all, they'd be liable for selling a dangerous application to a consumer.

You do not seem to understand. Generally, you are safe going -1. However, if you are going to do that, be darn sure the load capacities for the new tire are well within what your vehicle could weigh. If you don't, you could be in for a huge surprise. If the tire shop doesn't do this for you, go to a different shop or check yourself. Like I said, for a 3000lb car this isn't generally a problem but for a 4500lb SUV it isn't as sure of a thing especially when loaded up with 700lbs of humans and another 500lbs of cargo and fuel.

I also wouldn't be so sure as others (you included) in saying how liable they would be. You are the one requesting the size change and merely shipping you rubber that may be mounted. They are not even mounting them to a vehicle. If push came to shove, I bet a lawyer would see that as a pretty big hole to walk out of a liability case. I would actually be surprised if you don't agree automatically to a waiver when you buy from them.

This isn't rocket science. A good tire shop will go through the capacity differences in sizes and advise you if there is one. In my instance, even staying with stock sizes since it was on an SUV they were careful to make sure it had the same capacity for the tire through Carmodifier. It is simply good safe practice. For an SUV and his tire size, I wouldn't bother mucking around with the size. He doesn't need to spend $250/tire.

[vek]

I also wouldn't be so sure as others (you included) in saying how liable they would be. You are the one requesting the size change and merely shipping you rubber that may be mounted. They are not even mounting them to a vehicle. .

You're really not getting it. The tire rack has "preferred winter tire packages" for each vehicle, customized for the particular vehicle in question. Virtually every vehicle has a "-1" RECOMMENDED package by Tire Rack.

I'd like you to come up with examples of three common applications -say going from 17" to 16", in where the sidewall load of common SUV winter tires will be insufficient for the rated load of the average SUV in question. Since this is such a huge issue in your eyes, it must be easy to quickly come up with some examples.

[Spud72]

You're really not getting it. The tire rack has "preferred winter tire packages" for each vehicle, customized for the particular vehicle in question. Virtually every vehicle has a "-1" RECOMMENDED package by Tire Rack.
Firstly - if tire rack recommends 1 -1 size for a specific vehicle, than I agree I would certainly hope they research it. If a person just uses a generic tire size calculator and goes shopping on speedo error and price, which I will admit I assume was being talked about here, then you should compare capacities to be on the safe side.

I'd like you to come up with examples of three common applications -say going from 17" to 16", in where the sidewall load of common SUV winter tires will be insufficient for the rated load of the average SUV in question. Since this is such a huge issue in your eyes, it must be easy to quickly come up with some examples.
Well, I am working so I'm not going to come up with 3 examples as my time is finite. However, I'll give a single bit of info from the 10 minutes I can spare right now that can at least illustrate I'm not fabricating something out of thin air.

For example, a good Yoki SUV tire Geolander AT-S in his MDX size (235/65-17) gives a rating of 2205lbs (pdf from the Yokahama website)

Now, for comparison a good drop is a 235/70-16 Yoki winter tire (http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/spec.aspx?tire=GEOLANDAR%20I/T) which will be a cheaper tire and only a .26% difference in speedo. The load rating for this tire drops to 2039.

Even with this basic little drop he loses 664 lbs of tire capacity and gets even larger if a person goes with a smaller size. Now, in all reality should that make a difference in day to day use? I hope not because if he had that much in his SUV it would be overloaded - but my point is it is something to look out for and people do, for some bizarre reason, overload their vehicles all the time. I see it every day.

I will agree generally it shouldn't be an issue for the average driver. I'm not sure why you seem to be thinking I'm making this a HUGE issue, I'm not. It is something to just be aware of is all I'm saying. Most people don't even give it a second thought. Give it 15 minutes of research is all I'm saying. This is especially important if you load your vehicle up.

I still say for his case the price difference of the tires is small and if he keeps the stock size, if nothing else he has a perfect full size spare.

[ES_Revenge]

You need tires for an SUV, not a car. They are built to withstand the additional weight and stress. Don't even look at anything else and do not compare. SUV tires will cost more.
Well you need tyres that match the specifications of the "lowest-end" tyres that come on the vehicle, stock, sure. But the MDX is more of a glorified Minivan (particularly the first generation), so it's not like you need truck tyres or anything, right?

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence about winter tire tread width but the bottom line is that on your L/H door post or frame is the tire and wheel size for your vehicle. If you get into an accident and have a lesser tire on your vehicle, you may be jeopardizing your ability to have the claim paid. Your anti lock system and stability system and traction control system are all there to give you the vehicle control summer or winter. Of course, in a sideways slide on ice or snow none of theses systems will ensure total control but neither will narrow tires.

Before all the naysayers bellow out opinions, if a tire retailer sells you a tire that is not approved for your vehicle, they are also putting themselves in a position of liability. There were even several threads here some time ago about retailers not installing tires on cars if they are not listed in the approved tire list or door frame.
Well I'm not trying to be a "naysayer" LOL, but you're forgetting that many vehicles already come with different tyre/wheel sizes, from the factory. What TireRack (and others) usually recommend is going with the smallest size factory wheel used on that model. This is of course barring some significant changes between trim levels (like larger brakes or interfering suspension components, for example). These other sizes may or may not be listed on the tyre placard on the vehicle, but they are still certainly fine for use.

So if you have an MDX that has, say (for argument's sake), 17" wheels and there was a lower-end/base wheel/tyre package on that vehicle that was 16", then there should be no problems using the factory 16" size as the vehicle was already designed for it (again this is barring other changes that would prevent using the smaller wheel).

At the same time some manufacturers even offer smaller wheels themselves, specifically for winter. I know there are Audis for example that come with 17" wheels minimum but the dealers (and the accessory listing on the intarwebs) have 16" wheels specifically for winter use. I.e. the manufacturer is already recommending you use a smaller wheel and narrower tyre for winter purposes.

You can even extend the above to looking for how the same model car is equipped in other countries. There might be a wheel/tyre size in Europe or elsewhere (even in the US) that is smaller but not offered here, which could easily be used instead of the stock tyre.

The way you're making it out, you might as well be saying that any tyre at all other than what came on your specific model and trim will cause "liability issues" and insurance problems. :rolleyes: This is certainly not the case. If it were anyone that had any sort of aftermarket wheels on their car that got in an accident would be totally screwed. Again, it's just not true.

2: Buy steelies, and Car Modifier has them at a good price. You can almost certainly get a great deal buy buying the package deal.
I dunno what the deal is with the hard-on for steelies, LOL. Seriously if you can afford it, I wouldn't get steelies. The look horrid, particularly on newer vehicles. If you can't afford to buy alloys then fine, get steel wheels, but otherwise I would stay away from them. Just my opinion though. What I usually recommend for most cars, is to use whatever factory wheels you got with your car and mount your winter tyres on them. Then buy some aftermarket (or nicer factory wheels, if applicable) and put a set of summer tyres on those. Throw away factory all-seasons in the garbage where they belong (or save them to return at the end of your lease, lol) and you're all set :)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Tire Rack knows more about what tires are suitable for an application than to apply your generic statement of the dangers of -1 sizing. After all, they'd be liable for selling a dangerous application to a consumer.
Again all this nonsense about "liability" is going a bit far. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also for another thing you can't minus size to a dangerous tyre size on most vehicles because the brakes and/or suspension and/or other parts of the car just won't let you. Provided you're doing your sizing properly you're not going to change your speedo much (if at all) and you're very unlikely to cause problems with your ABS/stability control, or other safety systems.

Remember that many vehicles come with compact spare tyres which the safety systems must account for if they ever need to be installed. A space saver spare tyre is far worse than a properly minus-sized tyre/wheel combo. Though there are load and speed limitations with a compact spare, again the tyre is a far cry from a properly minus sized tyre, one where the tyre also meets the load and speed requirements of the factory tyres on the vehicle. Personally I've never bought a replacement tyre where the load ratings weren't higher than the factory tyres so I'm not sure how you'd do that unless you bought the crappiest tyre out there, lol; and if you did that you're just asking for problems anyway.

If anyone really had any "liability" for tyres in general, then both the manufacturers that put on all-seasons on cars from the factory and the government that allows that garbage to go on cars (and even be manufactured) would be in a heck of a lot of hot water...

[Pete_Coach]

Well you need tyres that match the specifications of the "lowest-end" tyres that come on the vehicle, stock, sure. But the MDX is more of a glorified Minivan (particularly the first generation), so it's not like you need truck tyres or anything, right?


Well I'm not trying to be a "naysayer" LOL, but you're forgetting that many vehicles already come with different tyre/wheel sizes, from the factory. What TireRack (and others) usually recommend is going with the smallest size factory wheel used on that model. This is of course barring some significant changes between trim levels (like larger brakes or interfering suspension components, for example). These other sizes may or may not be listed on the tyre placard on the vehicle, but they are still certainly fine for use.

So if you have an MDX that has, say (for argument's sake), 17" wheels and there was a lower-end/base wheel/tyre package on that vehicle that was 16", then there should be no problems using the factory 16" size as the vehicle was already designed for it (again this is barring other changes that would prevent using the smaller wheel).

At the same time some manufacturers even offer smaller wheels themselves, specifically for winter. I know there are Audis for example that come with 17" wheels minimum but the dealers (and the accessory listing on the intarwebs) have 16" wheels specifically for winter use. I.e. the manufacturer is already recommending you use a smaller wheel and narrower tyre for winter purposes.

You can even extend the above to looking for how the same model car is equipped in other countries. There might be a wheel/tyre size in Europe or elsewhere (even in the US) that is smaller but not offered here, which could easily be used instead of the stock tyre.

The way you're making it out, you might as well be saying that any tyre at all other than what came on your specific model and trim will cause "liability issues" and insurance problems. :rolleyes: This is certainly not the case. If it were anyone that had any sort of aftermarket wheels on their car that got in an accident would be totally screwed. Again, it's just not true.


I dunno what the deal is with the hard-on for steelies, LOL. Seriously if you can afford it, I wouldn't get steelies. The look horrid, particularly on newer vehicles. If you can't afford to buy alloys then fine, get steel wheels, but otherwise I would stay away from them. Just my opinion though. What I usually recommend for most cars, is to use whatever factory wheels you got with your car and mount your winter tyres on them. Then buy some aftermarket (or nicer factory wheels, if applicable) and put a set of summer tyres on those. Throw away factory all-seasons in the garbage where they belong (or save them to return at the end of your lease, lol) and you're all set :)


Again all this nonsense about "liability" is going a bit far. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also for another thing you can't minus size to a dangerous tyre size on most vehicles because the brakes and/or suspension and/or other parts of the car just won't let you. Provided you're doing your sizing properly you're not going to change your speedo much (if at all) and you're very unlikely to cause problems with your ABS/stability control, or other safety systems.

Remember that many vehicles come with compact spare tyres which the safety systems must account for if they ever need to be installed. A space saver spare tyre is far worse than a properly minus-sized tyre/wheel combo. Though there are load and speed limitations with a compact spare, again the tyre is a far cry from a properly minus sized tyre, one where the tyre also meets the load and speed requirements of the factory tyres on the vehicle. Personally I've never bought a replacement tyre where the load ratings weren't higher than the factory tyres so I'm not sure how you'd do that unless you bought the crappiest tyre out there, lol; and if you did that you're just asking for problems anyway.

If anyone really had any "liability" for tyres in general, then both the manufacturers that put on all-seasons on cars from the factory and the government that allows that garbage to go on cars (and even be manufactured) would be in a heck of a lot of hot water...
Wrong, an SUV is a different vehicle, weight differences, center of gravity differences and major suspension and handling differences. A very naive statement.
Vehicle model variants come with different wheel and tire combination as a result of some change, it could be as little as appearance to as much as suspension (sport) changes and thereby the wheels and tires are different.
A vehicle in another Country or Continent is not a valid comparison to what is required in Canada. Not valid.
Spoken by a true employee who has no concept or regard for the issues a shop owner has to deal with. If you put the wrong product on anything and poop happens, you will wear it and pay for the damages, and in today's blame averse insurance companies, they will be looking for someone to share the cost of repairs. Liability is a big issue with business nowadays and liability insurance for those companies is very high cost.
Space saver spare??? What kind of comment is that in this topic? You put that on to drive slowly for a very short period of time in the case of a situation, not anything to do with tire size for the vehicle.
Lemme see, OEM liability for tires? Do you remember the Ford Explorer and Firestone tire problems a while ago. Oh yeah, did they ever have liability. For all intents, Firestone no longer exists.
Last thing, Tirerack has a lot of good, actually very good, info but the only info that is truly applicable to your vehicle is that which is in your owners manual. Tirerack (and other US based online tire retailers) will sell you anything. They take absolutely no responsibility for anything after the sale and nor do they have to.

[FrostedGlass]

Random thought - since its a few years old you may be able to get a set of factory alloys (maybe even with sensors) from an auto recycler (i.e. wrecker) for a good price.

[GoiNGPoSTaL]

Firstly - if tire rack recommends 1 -1 size for a specific vehicle, than I agree I would certainly hope they research it. If a person just uses a generic tire size calculator and goes shopping on speedo error and price, which I will admit I assume was being talked about here, then you should compare capacities to be on the safe side.

Well, I am working so I'm not going to come up with 3 examples as my time is finite. However, I'll give a single bit of info from the 10 minutes I can spare right now that can at least illustrate I'm not fabricating something out of thin air.

For example, a good Yoki SUV tire Geolander AT-S in his MDX size (235/65-17) gives a rating of 2205lbs (pdf from the Yokahama website)

Now, for comparison a good drop is a 235/70-16 Yoki winter tire (http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/spec.aspx?tire=GEOLANDAR%20I/T) which will be a cheaper tire and only a .26% difference in speedo. The load rating for this tire drops to 2039.

Even with this basic little drop he loses 664 lbs of tire capacity and gets even larger if a person goes with a smaller size. Now, in all reality should that make a difference in day to day use? I hope not because if he had that much in his SUV it would be overloaded - but my point is it is something to look out for and people do, for some bizarre reason, overload their vehicles all the time. I see it every day.

I will agree generally it shouldn't be an issue for the average driver. I'm not sure why you seem to be thinking I'm making this a HUGE issue, I'm not. It is something to just be aware of is all I'm saying. Most people don't even give it a second thought. Give it 15 minutes of research is all I'm saying. This is especially important if you load your vehicle up.

I still say for his case the price difference of the tires is small and if he keeps the stock size, if nothing else he has a perfect full size spare.

If you bothered to go onto TireRack's site you'll see that all the tires whether -1, +0, +1, etc. the tires they recommend have either greater or equal to the OE tire specs (except for winter where speed ratings can be lower but load is either equal or greater).

My cousin ordered some tires and rims from Tire Rack last year for his Mazda 3 and when he selected "mount with no TPMS" because Canadian ones don't have them they called before the tires shipped to make sure he didn't need or want them. Now this could have been a try for an upsale but I guess it was nice of them to confirm.

[ES_Revenge]

Wrong.... blah blah blah
Again you're making it out to be that any tyre that's different than stock is some kind of legal pitfall. News bulletin: it isn't.

And this is fact. You point out all the theoretical nonsense about some small difference here or and call it "liability" as much as you want, but there's nothing to back that up.

Why don't you point out all the insurance claims denied and people facing civil suits for damages where these same alleged claims were allegedly denied? Why not point out to all the horror stories on the internet of people this has happened to? Or the big legal cases where TireRack (and others) have been found liable for accidents? What about all the common law precedents that support what you're saying? Why not point them out too? Oh that's right because they don't exist. :rolleyes:

Another news bulletin. Thousands of car accidents happen everyday in North America. You don't think out of all those accidents, where at no time have we we ever heard of tyre shops and internet sites like Tire Rack being held liable, that there actually exists any "liability" in this dreamworld of yours?


Insurance adjusters may look for something abnormal with tyres on a car upon an accident but I assure you they are not doing what you're saying and nitpicking every little detail about what tyres you had on your car when the accident occured. If a tyre was blown out or had far too little tread depth or had a clearly and blatantly incorrect tyre size, then sure they might have something to say. But I'll bet that most insurance adjusters can't even give a definition of what tyre's load rating is, nevermind them finding a minus-sized wheel/tyre combo to be the "cause" of any accident :rolleyes:


Space saver spare??? What kind of comment is that in this topic?
What what are you talking about??? Did you read what I wrote or did you just read "space saver" and move on to this nonsense comment? You said that ABS and safety systems can get thrown off with a minus sized tyre IIRC (not true by the way). I simply gave the extreme example of saying that space saver tyres have to be accounted for in a vehicle's safety systems and that these tyres are far worse than a minus-sized tyre in terms of rolling charateristics and size. Given that the safety systems must work with a space saver (which is the extreme case) surely they will work with a minus (or plus) sized combo, which is not extreme at all but rather normal.


You put that on to drive slowly for a very short period of time in the case of a situation, not anything to do with tire size for the vehicle.
I already said that, but that wasn't my point at all. The point is (and you can pick up virtually any car owner's manual where the car has ABS and a compact spare and read this) that the safety systems do still work with the compact spare on.


Lemme see, OEM liability for tires? Do you remember the Ford Explorer and Firestone tire problems a while ago. Oh yeah, did they ever have liability. For all intents, Firestone no longer exists.
It doesn't? Huh, tell that to any tyre shop that sells all kinds of Firestone branded tyres, lol.

But what you're stating is completely irrelevant. The Ford Explorer and Firestone tyres has absolutley nothing to do with what you're going on about (the alleged liability of shops who recommend and install a minus-sized tyre/wheel combo on a vehicle). Firestone getting nailed for liablity for a poor product is a far cry from someone installing a quality product in a largely-practiced and widely accepted manner, on a vehicle that just so happened to be different from what was on the vehicle off the line. Talking about Firestone and the Explorer is just dragging a red herring, and nothing more.

They take absolutely no responsibility for anything after the sale and nor do they have to.
LOL so wait first you are going on about all the alleged liability they have and then you're saying they don't have to take any responsibility? Make up your mind!

[Pete_Coach]

Sorry ES_, I forgot you are the tyre guru. Put a few extra words in your retort but what the heck, I concede to your sage advice and experience, you are absolutely right, as usual.

[ES_Revenge]

Sorry ES_, I forgot you are the tyre guru. Put a few extra words in your retort but what the heck, I concede to your sage advice and experience, you are absolutely right, as usual.

LOL yeah you know me always right! :) j/k :lol: But I mean hey we were doing pretty well there for a while, agreeing on everything recently haha :lol: We had to disagree on something eventually right? ;)

But seriously, all I'm saying is reality backs me up, I don't think it backs you up... If you can point to commonplace specific examples of tyre liability either on the installer or the individual (court cases/lawsuits or insurance claims denied) based on normal plus or minus sizing then I might change my tune. However I've never seen such occurences and I don't think they exist, so going with reality I don't think that proper tyre/wheel size changes are going to cause any "liability" issues.

If anything whether it's a minus-sized or stock sized winter tyre, it's going to be a lot safer than the stock no-season garbage they put on the majority of cars from the factory. If anything manufacturers (both automakers and tyre makers) should be held liable for absolute stupidity in equipping/making these abominations in the first place. But no, the all-season tyre probably enjoys sales much higher than any real tyre just because it's "convenient".

Again, if we really want to talk about where the liability is there should be hell to pay for making, equipping, and [the government] allowing all-season tyres to continue. In winter condtions, I'd put my money on a minus sized winter tyre on any vehicle over a normal sized all-season in terms of performance and safety. And, I'd put that money down twice on Sunday.

[Pete_Coach]

LOL yeah you know me always right! :) j/k :lol: But I mean hey we were doing pretty well there for a while, agreeing on everything recently haha :lol: We had to disagree on something eventually right? ;)

But seriously, all I'm saying is reality backs me up, I don't think it backs you up... If you can point to commonplace specific examples of tyre liability either on the installer or the individual (court cases/lawsuits or insurance claims denied) based on normal plus or minus sizing then I might change my tune. However I've never seen such occurences and I don't think they exist, so going with reality I don't think that proper tyre/wheel size changes are going to cause any "liability" issues.

If anything whether it's a minus-sized or stock sized winter tyre, it's going to be a lot safer than the stock no-season garbage they put on the majority of cars from the factory. If anything manufacturers (both automakers and tyre makers) should be held liable for absolute stupidity in equipping/making these abominations in the first place. But no, the all-season tyre probably enjoys sales much higher than any real tyre just because it's "convenient".

Again, if we really want to talk about where the liability is there should be hell to pay for making, equipping, and [the government] allowing all-season tyres to continue. In winter condtions, I'd put my money on a minus sized winter tyre on any vehicle over a normal sized all-season in terms of performance and safety. And, I'd put that money down twice on Sunday.
Yea, we did OK for a while there didn't we? :)
I think the deal with me and liability is I have an acquaintance who just had to pay $25,000 fine even though he did exactly what the customer asked. Unfortunately, serious injuries were involved.
I do not wish to cite examples here but if you Google tire liability, you get over 4 million hits. Retailer liability gets over 3 million. Many of the retailers I know will not install wheels or tires on vehicles that are not specifically listed on the door frame or in the owners manuals. As a matter of fact, this was a topic in this forum a while back, RFD'ers were upset they could not get what they wanted. The overwhelming resolution was to buy them and install them yourself.
Whether you like all-season or not, they have been engineered by tire designers for vehicles and approved by all authorities. Your (and mine) personal likes and dislikes are immaterial in the design and engineering world.
Regarding tirerack and other US companies we all like to deal with because we save so much, they have no obligation to follow the laws and regs in Canada. They just sell stuff. Even recalls on products they sell are not applicable to us and they don't have to notify you. They are beyond the reach of our legal system if the poop hits the fan. Yes, they may just give you your money back if you have an issue, but it is really an optics thing as opposed to legal.
Me OK, You OK?

[Crooked Beat]

After reading this thread, can I assume that going from summer tire of 215 70 R15 to a winter 205 75 R15 is fine?

CB