Huge Problems with PC Financial accounts, seeking advice

[chrinFinity]

Hello there folks, I'm looking for some advice on how I can get better service from my bank... I feel they are treating me unfairly, so I thought I would share my situation with you and find out what you all can suggest.

I'm a customer of President's Choice Financial, and I have been for about 3-4 years now.

I currently make use of the following products and services:
-"Interest Plus" savings account
-"No Fee" daily chequing account
-"Unbeatable, Eat-able" Mortgage (weekly payments, in good standing)
-PC Financial Mastercard (used very frequently, also in good standing).

The problem is that the bank is forcefully withholding my deposited funds for 5 business days each time I deposit. I am only allowed a deposit limit of $1000 per week. If I deposit more than this, they withhold my money for 5 business days.

So for example, when I deposit my pay check every second Thursday, which is approximately $1400, I can only use the first $1000 to pay my bills and do other transactions, such as getting groceries. The other $400 is held hostage by the bank, untouchable for one full week following deposit. This makes managing my cashflow a lot more difficult than it should be, and it results in a waste of money being locked up, when by rights I should be able to use it.

These are my paychecks we're talking about, from the payroll department at the corporation I work for. There is no reason the bank should be placing a hold on these funds. If I try to transfer or withdraw any funds in my bank balance which are "on hold" (ie, held hostage), I get a "not sufficient funds" response. Meaning I can get "NSF" when in fact I have more than enough money in the bank to cover the transaction. This is very aggravating to me.

I have tried calling and asking to have this deposit limit removed, but both the tier 1 CSRs as well as their immediate supervisors are unable or unwilling to do anything to help me. The stated reason for this refusal is extremely irritating.

It all started 2 or 3 years ago, while I was still a college student. Before I was employed full time, I used to do IT-based freelance contract work (because it sure beats working at Blockbuster). Once upon a time, I deposited a check from a (now former) client, in good faith, and immediately I withdrew some of the money in order to finance a necessary repair to my computer. Unfortunately, the client's check came back NSF from the issuing bank, and regrettably, this caused my checking account to go into overdraft. I immediately rectified the situation by depositing cash to cover the overdrafted amount. However, as a punishment to me for "allowing" the overdraft to occur, PC Financial instituted this procedure of holding all my deposits 5 days.

It seemed unfair at the time, because I had deposited the cheque in good faith (having no reason to suspect it might be bad). It is not as though I am some degenerate who makes empty-envelope ATM deposits. But despite my misgivings at the bank's stern response, I decided to just "live with it" (rather than switching banks), because as a college student the deposit limits weren't much of a hardship for me, and because the PC Financial did promise they would consider removing the deposit limit after a specified period of time had passed (six months or a year, I can't remember). Also, at the time, I had no mortgage or credit card with PC, so I had no leverage to negotiate.

Flash forward to now, I am currently an IT professional making approximately 47k/yr. My income is continuing to rise as I climb the corporate ladder, currently my bi-weekly paychecks are about $1400... and this will only increase every quarter. The once unimportant $1000 weekly deposit limit now represents a noticeable bottleneck on my cashflow, which at this point is an unacceptable deal-breaker. My personal banking needs are no longer being met by PC.

When I ask PC Financial CSRs to please remove the weekly deposit limit, they refuse, on the grounds that I have had an NSF event in the past year. You see, in the years since the deposit limit was first instituted following the bac client check, I have suffered additional NSF events, each time as the direct result of not being allowed access to my own money, due to this deposit withholding practice.

For example, every month, I make a payment to my condo board, via a pre-authorized withdrawal from my checking account. In order to make sure the money is always there on time, I have a pre-scheduled monthly transfer from my savings to my chequing for precisely the same amount. But this month, that transfer from savings to chequing was cancelled by my bank, without any notification to me, despite having enough funds in my savings balance. The catch is that some of that savings balance (from depositing my pay check) was considered "on hold," and so I was yet again denied access to my own money.

As a result of the scheduled transfer being cancelled without notice, the subsequent pre-authorized payment to my condo board was refused. Therefore, I got an NSF fee, the condo-board also got an NSF fee (which I have to pay, of course), and it has caused me unnecessary embarassment.

I like to use a spreadsheet to tightly control my cashflow. These rules are making that nearly impossible, infuriatingly difficult, at best. And I'm getting embarrassing NSF events, not because I don't have the money, but rather because PC Financial doesn't want to let me have access to my own funds. Fact is, I have had several other NSF incidents over my time as a PC customer, all of which came as the direct result of not being able to transfer money between accounts when I need to, due to PC withholding 30% of my pay check.

It follows logically that I have now paid potentially hundreds of dollars in NSF fees, all because of unfair rules on a bank account which I originally chose based on its "no fee" premise.

I know I have a good credit rating, in fact PC Mastercard has raised my credit limit (without me asking) more than once, each time sending me a notification letter congratulating me on "successfully managing my account."

Furthermore, PC Financial also extended me a mortgage, on which I've been making regular payments for more than a year now. Clearly they are willing to do business with me, and they seem to trust me enough to be willing to extend me thousands of dollars of credit.

And yet, they are still treating me like a suspected criminal in my day-to-day banking.

I am so thoroughly disappointed with the way I've been treated by the CSRs, that I am absolutely prepared to cancel all PC financial services if I cannot have the unwanted deposit limits removed. I will cancel my MasterCard, close my bank accounts, and when my mortgage comes up for renewal, I'm prepared to take that business elsewhere too, and of course never do business with PC Financial ever again.

But I would so much rather not do that. Other than this particular snag, I have been very happy across the board with the services they offer. I am really hoping there is some VP of customer relations I can contact who will see the common sense, and make a business decision to just remove my daily deposit limit.

Do any of you know who I can contact?

Sorry for the long post.

-=chrinFinity=-

[myapple]

Stop using PCF if you value good service and reliability.

I used to have a PCF account and they offered me no overdraft and like you held my cheques for a week. I switched back to cibc and i've been much happier. No more website/payment problems and NO HOLDS ON MY CHEQUES.

[crimsondr]

PC allows me a daily deposit limit of $1500 with no holds. Anything above that is held for 5 business days.

CIBC messed up my credit check so they hold everything for 10 business days :mad: I've never called them again to fix it though...

TD for me is great with no holds on money deposited.

[brunes]

Who gets payed wit a cheque anymore?

Get your employer to EMT your paycheque, then it has 0 hold time.

You are not going to get any better at any other bank, the account I opened at BMO this past summer for example had a 5 day hold on anything I deposited over $100. Only way to lift it was to get EMT payments.

Stop using PCF if you value good service and reliability.

I used to have a PCF account and they offered me no overdraft and like you held my cheques for a week. I switched back to cibc and i've been much happier. No more website/payment problems and NO HOLDS ON MY CHEQUES.

Bah, whatever. PCF is no better or worse than any other bank. I have accounts at PCF, CIBC, TD, and BMO for various purposes. They all have or have had in the past holds of various amounts for one reason or another. And CIBC == PCF anyway.

[myapple]

Who gets payed wit a cheque anymore?

Get your employer to EMT your paycheque, then it has 0 hold time.

You are not going to get any better at any other bank, the account I opened at BMO this past summer for example had a 5 day hold on anything I deposited over $100. Only way to lift it was to get EMT payments.



Bah, whatever. PCF is no better or worse than any other bank. I have accounts at PCF, CIBC, TD, and BMO for various purposes. They all have or have had in the past holds of various amounts for one reason or another. And CIBC == PCF anyway.
Just because you can use your PCF card in a cibc machine, it does not mean they provide the same services. Completely different online system, completely different CSR reps (PCF is in like india or something), and completely different lending policies.

And FYI, lots of people still gets paid with cheque. Cheques are very common for small businesses.

[kneevase]

So, to summarize, you demonstrated a couple of years ago that you are a bad credit risk, and the bank has responded appropriately by treating you as such. Now you are on RFD whining about the fact that you made a mistake a couple of years ago and PCF is not prepared to "look the other way?"


Or is that uncharitable?

[Jacklad]

+1 for the direct deposit suggestion, but if you do have to deal with cheques, there's a relatively simple way around this (assuming you have a decent credit rating).

Apply for a PC LOC. Once you have it, make your deposits to the LOC, putting it into the positive. Transfer the amount back to your chequing account. Any holds less than the total amount of the LOC will be invisible to you, you won't incur any interest on the held funds, you'll have immediate access to your funds and you won't have to change any pre-authorized transfers.

You might want to apply for overdraft protection at the same time - it only costs if you actually overdraw, and it's a lot less than the regular rates. Applying for both at the same time means one credit check vice two.

[Lyrrad0]

A way around it would be to get an unsecured LOC from them, and deposit to that account. Then transfer the money from the LOC to whatever other account you need. Your hold will then be reflected in the LOC, which should be fine.

[kneevase]

I'm sorry if this sounds like whining to you, but I am just trying to understand why would they trust me with a 25k loc, but at the same time give me a paltry $500 hold. I would be perfectly happy without having a loc but at the same time having a 5k hold.



The unsecured line of credit is priced based on your credit risk. They are charging you Prime+XX% to reflect the risk that you represent. In other words, PCF is being compensated to take on your risk. They get no compensation to take on the risk that one of your deposits will "bounce" on them.

You have demonstrated that you are a bad credit risk by being late on a couple of payment a few years back. So why should they let you impose that risk on the bank for free?

Don't bounce any cheques, don't overdraw your accounts, and don't be late on payments for the next 5-6 years, and the banks will eventually trust you again.

[boyoflondon]

This is a pain in the ass for me as well!

I have $5k in the savings account, and yest, every time I make a deposit, I have to wait 5 days for it to appear. Not convenient what so ever!! Thanks to that stupid system, I ended up with a NSF hit and according to the rep (which was not in India BTW), I cannot get anything until 6 mths after the NSF hit. :twisted:

[jcools]

Hey, I bank with them too and have a $5K hold limit. Even with that amount I have ran into a few problems myself. To get aroung this I got overdraft protection for $2K. I am never actually in an overdraft position but this allows me to deposit up to $7K without a hold. This means that the hold is really on my overdraft amount which I wouldn't use anyways. It's like $5 a month plus 19.9% interest when you actually have a credit balance, but free if your not in a credit balance.

This idea is in-line with the guys LOC idea except it is a lot easier to do, and hey overdraft might come in handy if you were to actually bounce a cheque one day.

[TopTaxGuy]

I hear you that it is frustrating. The fact with cheques is that when you deposit them, the cheque is not immediately withdrawn from the cheque writers account. There can be from 3-5 days for the proceeds to clear. So, when a bank allows its clients to withdraw funds immediately, they are advancing the funds on the promise that the other part will honour the cheque.

If you receive your pay via cheque you are a bit of an anomaly in the current market as most people now get direct deposit. What I suggest is that you contact the COBC ombudsman for banking services and explain your situation as PC Financial may have limits imposed on it by CIBC.

The ombudsman can be reached at 1-800-308-6859 or 416-861-3313 or fax: 1-800-308-6861 or 416-980-3754 (Toronto area) e-mail: ombudsman@cibc.com
Or mail CIBC Ombudsman
P.O. Box 342, Commerce Court
Toronto, ON M5L 1G2

[Lyrrad0]

This idea is in-line with the guys LOC idea except it is a lot easier to do, and hey overdraft might come in handy if you were to actually bounce a cheque one day.

Yeah.

There are some advantages to using the LOC as a chequing account in PCF. They both offer similar features like free cheques.


- You can transfer money in and pay a bill on the same day, since if payment goes through first, it will go back up to 0 by the end of the day. This way you can get interest on the full amount of your savings without leaving a buffer in your account.

- No NSF charges if you mess up.

- Free monthly printed statement.

- Disadvantage: you don't earn interest on any positive balances.

[chrinFinity]

So, to summarize, you demonstrated a couple of years ago that you are a bad credit risk, and the bank has responded appropriately by treating you as such. Now you are on RFD whining about the fact that you made a mistake a couple of years ago and PCF is not prepared to "look the other way?"

Or is that uncharitable?Not so much "uncharitable" as "completely incorrect." My point was that I'm not a bad credit risk; and in fact my credit rating, as well as the other business PC is willing to do with me, clearly reflects this. My issue is only with one specific policy applied to my checking and savings accounts.

Thank you everyone for your replies! I'm still considering my options, thinking of contacting the ombudsman but I might just try the LOC solution.

If anyone has anymore ideas I'm all ears!

-=chrinFinity=-

[Trooper8111]

TD CanadaTrust FTW. No holds unless it's a huge BT check from MBNA:cheesygri

[timv]

PC tends to like increasing your deposit limit by $500 at a time. Once 6 months has passed just give them another call to get your hold limit increased. In the mean time as someone else mentioned call them back and get them to increase the overdraft on your account. That gives you more accessible funds. As long as your account balance stays with a positive balance you should have no extra charges, but I'd ask one of their CSR's just to make sure!

[mrlayance]

When was the last time you reviewed your credit rating? I had same type of problem with a different bank.

[Jungle]

Next time coles notes version please, leave your biography for lavalife.

Now for my advice..

I would suggest looking at TD. You will get better service and they are one of the best banks for satisfaction. PFC does not have any tolerence to NSF occurances. As someone mentioned get you cheque direct deposited. Do not make any NSF charges for six months and call back to get your limits changes. Repeat this every six months. It may take a year or so to get the limit holds you want.

[joe1487]

Like others have said, get overdraft protection. At my bank (BMO), I float up and down into overdraft all the time to cover fluctuations in my cash flow. There is no per-use or monthly fee - just the interest, which is usually negligible. Even if I deposit a cheque that exceeds my hold limit, they let me use the money as long as it is below my overdraft protection limit.

I know a lot of people will chastise me for expressing this view, but your grief really isn't worth $13 a month (not to mention your overdraft fees). If you've got good credit, just walk into another bank and open an account. They'll give you daily hold limits of $1,000 or more per day right from the start. From the sounds of it, given your income and credit history in other domains, you'd be getting something like $10,000.

Bah, whatever. PCF is no better or worse than any other bank. I have accounts at PCF, CIBC, TD, and BMO for various purposes. They all have or have had in the past holds of various amounts for one reason or another. And CIBC == PCF anyway.

Not always true. The trouble with PCF is that you have no tellers to deal with - you must deposit your cheques into a bank machine. And the bank has no way to know whether what you deposited was cash, a cheque or an empty envelope, so you're extended some short term credit. Meanwhile, with a B&M bank, you can oftentimes take your cheque down to a teller and have it cleared instantly. I've had to deposit cheques larger than my hold limit before, and when I took them into the branch, they looked at my history with them, considered the payor (a university or large corporation) and released the hold.

You also have the option of taking the cheque to the bank on which it was drawn and cashing it. My friend has an RBC account for just this purpose; his part-time employer gives him paycheques from their account at RBC, so he takes the cheques into an RBC branch once a month. The branch can ascertain that the money is in the employer's account to make good on the transaction, so they release it right away into his account.

[dux]

Get a real bank? Issues like this will never happen with RBC, TD, etc. I guess you get what you pay for, or should i say get what you don't pay, don't expect much for a bank without fees.

[brunes]

Just because you can use your PCF card in a cibc machine, it does not mean they provide the same services. Completely different online system, completely different CSR reps (PCF is in like india or something), and completely different lending policies.

Actually, every single PCF rep works right here, in Fredericton NB. In fact my wife worked there 1.5 years ago. There are no PCF call centers in India. Not something true about all other Canadian banks.

[kneevase]

Not so much "uncharitable" as "completely incorrect." My point was that I'm not a bad credit risk; and in fact my credit rating, as well as the other business PC is willing to do with me, clearly reflects this. My issue is only with one specific policy applied to my checking and savings accounts.

You are a credit risk. You admitted in your original post that you overdrew your account. You subsequently admitted that you have bounced cheques to your condo association. That constitutes irresponsible financial management and the bank is completely correct to be concerned that this sort of behaviour might occur in the future.

The fact that PCF has issued you a PC Mastercard and increased the limit does not mean that you are a good credit risk. It simply means that you are a good enough credit risk that they are prepared to lend you unsecured money at 20% interest. Heck, almost anybody can convince a bank to give them an unsecured loan at 20%. PCF and the other banks are prepared to do this because they are being adequately compensated (about 20% per year) for the risk that you represent. A few risky people will default and they'll lose money, but they make enough off the rest to offset those losses.

The fact that you have a mortgage with PCF is also irrelevant. It simply means that PCF is comfortable that the collateral (your condo) for the loan is solid enough that they will not incur any losses.....if you fail to make payments, they simply foreclose. Alternatively, it may mean that you have mortgage insurance through CMHC, meaning that PCF is unlikely to incur any losses...if you default, they collect from CMHC.

Given your history of overdrawing your chequing account and bouncing cheques to your condo association, why on earth should PCF accept the risk that one of your future deposits will go sour without being adequately compensated for accepting the risk? Grow up and manage your finances in a responsible fashion. If you do not overdraw your account, do not bounce cheques or are not late on payments for the next 5 or 6 years, the banks will be prepared to trust you.

Unbelievable!

[Jungle]

You are a credit risk. You admitted in your original post that you overdrew your account. You subsequently admitted that you have bounced cheques to your condo association. That constitutes irresponsible financial management and the bank is completely correct to be concerned that this sort of behaviour might occur in the future.

The fact that PCF has issued you a PC Mastercard and increased the limit does not mean that you are a good credit risk. It simply means that you are a good enough credit risk that they are prepared to lend you unsecured money at 20% interest. Heck, almost anybody can convince a bank to give them an unsecured loan at 20%. PCF and the other banks are prepared to do this because they are being adequately compensated (about 20% per year) for the risk that you represent. A few risky people will default and they'll lose money, but they make enough off the rest to offset those losses.

The fact that you have a mortgage with PCF is also irrelevant. It simply means that PCF is comfortable that the collateral (your condo) for the loan is solid enough that they will not incur any losses.....if you fail to make payments, they simply foreclose. Alternatively, it may mean that you have mortgage insurance through CMHC, meaning that PCF is unlikely to incur any losses...if you default, they collect from CMHC.

Given your history of overdrawing your chequing account and bouncing cheques to your condo association, why on earth should PCF accept the risk that one of your future deposits will go sour without being adequately compensated for accepting the risk? Grow up and manage your finances in a responsible fashion. If you do not overdraw your account, do not bounce cheques or are not late on payments for the next 5 or 6 years, the banks will be prepared to trust you.

Unbelievable!

Good post. OP you are responsible for your NSF history. Don't blame the bank.

[Jacklad]

Get a real bank? Issues like this will never happen with RBC, TD, etc. I guess you get what you pay for, or should i say get what you don't pay, don't expect much for a bank without fees.

Really? I have a 2k hold with RBC, but as they are not my main chequing account I haven't bothered to try to get it raised or removed. With PCF, I have no functional holds (I'm dissembling because I may have one for amounts over $20k; never had occasion to find out).

One of my tenants has a $200 hold with BMO (so I normally cash his payroll cheque for him). Why would you assume that "real" banks don't have holds?

[YYZFA]

Why would you assume that "real" banks don't have holds?

I'm guessing because PCF invokes a lot of strong and highly charged emotions (good and bad) from many people. I'm not sure why.

Personally, I like PCF for two reasons: They have served me better than traditional banks, and there are no service fees. However, if the OP or anyone else is ever that upset by them, then I suggest closing their account and choosing another bank. Everybody's experience is different, and for those that have had a particularly bad experience with any bank, there will be many more that are simply dazzled by that bank's customer service.

[fastlayne]

A way around it would be to get an unsecured LOC from them, and deposit to that account. Then transfer the money from the LOC to whatever other account you need. Your hold will then be reflected in the LOC, which should be fine.

+1

Even a small 5.000 unsecured limit would be a great convenience for your situation. I learned this trick years ago - deposit any large cheque to your LOC and then go home and make your transfers (to avoid any teller charges).

[Jacklad]

I'm guessing because PCF invokes a lot of strong and highly charged emotions (good and bad) from many people. I'm not sure why.

Never figured that out either.

Personally, I like PCF for two reasons: They have served me better than traditional banks, and there are no service fees. However, if the OP or anyone else is ever that upset by them, then I suggest closing their account and choosing another bank. Everybody's experience is different, and for those that have had a particularly bad experience with any bank, there will be many more that are simply dazzled by that bank's customer service.

I think you're spot on with that - any large business will have a certain proportion of their clientele with "horror stories". I've had bad experiences in the past with several of the "big 5", which is why I ended up with PCF in the first place. If I ever feel I'm getting the short end from PCF, they'll be history - there are plenty of other choices.

But at least if PCF does screw up at any future point I won't have had to pay for the privilege. :lol:

[Shaftasaurus]

I think we can stop scolding OP for a few misfortunes a while back. They're looking for advice, not insults.

I use PCF myself, and to be honest I'm not sure what kind of hold there is on my deposits, but there sure is one. I deposited my first paycheck in a while (new job) on the Friday before Labour day, and it was in the $600 range. Yet, it was held until late this past Friday. I've had the account for over a year, never had an NSF, no problems (other than my accounts being frozen due to 'potential compromise' on my card. Which happened twice, just had to reset my PIN at the ABM. I guess some place I was using my card was shady? Dunno). I've never tried to get my hold amount raised either, sicne I haven't really been depositing large amounts. I believe my employer is gonna start direct deposit with the next paycheck, so I dont' really have a need to do it either.

And regarding their customer service... Other than long wait times on hold to talk to a CSR, I've been quite pleased with the service I've gotten. And I've yet to speak with anyone who sounds to be from India.

[nfuz]

Lets be real, the banks are there to make money, not be friends with you.

If you don't like their services, switch, or at least threaten to.

I needed ONE free cheque a long time ago to link accounts, and the rep @ TD canada told me I'd have to buy a stack of 50. I simply told him, well If I'm going to pay for a stack of 50, why wouldn't I just go to another bank, open a new account and get their welcome 4 free cheques?

He immediately sent me 50 free cheques :)

(not the same I know, but...... take your business elsewhere, or threaten to...)

[halflife150]

I think we can stop scolding OP for a few misfortunes a while back. They're looking for advice, not insults.

He is looking for advice but the OP is also unfairly blaming PCF for his misfortunes when in fact he is at fault. So I agree with 2-3 others in pointing the finger of blame on the OP. Most complaints about PCF are unfair. They stem from hold limits that people are told about when they open the account, but people proceed to completely ignore them believing the terms they originally agreed to upon opening the account do not apply to them. Plus even with stringent hold limits, there are many ways around them, so they are not really a big deal. It is people's lack of sophistication that would cause hold limits to become a big deal.

Anyways on to solutions:

1. Direct Deposit from work don't have hold limits, if your employer doesn't do direct deposits, then ask if your employer will split your salary over multiple cheques that are under the deposit limit. In OP's case, one cheque for $1000 that you deposit on Friday and one for $400 that you deposit on Sunday. Hold limit on the $400 goes from 1 week to 2 days. If you can't wait 2 days for $400 then your budgeting needs work.

2. STOP USING DEBIT/CASH on transactions that can use credit card. Just by doing that would probably save your immediate cash need.

3. Get overdraft and/or a LOC.

If none of these are viable solutions, which I highly doubt that would be the case, then switch to another bank that will give you a higher hold limit.

[setell]

He is looking for advice but the OP is also unfairly blaming PCF for his misfortunes when in fact he is at fault. So I agree with 2-3 others in pointing the finger of blame on the OP. Most complaints about PCF are unfair. They stem from hold limits that people are told about when they open the account, but people proceed to completely ignore them believing the terms they originally agreed to upon opening the account do not apply to them. Plus even with stringent hold limits, there are many ways around them, so they are not really a big deal. It is people's lack of sophistication that would cause hold limits to become a big deal.

Anyways on to solutions:

1. Direct Deposit from work don't have hold limits, if your employer doesn't do direct deposits, then ask if your employer will split your salary over multiple cheques that are under the deposit limit. In OP's case, one cheque for $1000 that you deposit on Friday and one for $400 that you deposit on Sunday. Hold limit on the $400 goes from 1 week to 2 days. If you can't wait 2 days for $400 then your budgeting needs work.

2. STOP USING DEBIT/CASH on transactions that can use credit card. Just by doing that would probably save your immediate cash need.

3. Get overdraft and/or a LOC.

If none of these are viable solutions, which I highly doubt that would be the case, then switch to another bank that will give you a higher hold limit.

+1

The OP made it sound like a hold on your deposit was a terrible thing. BMO always held my money for 5 business days for anything over $300 for years. It never really bothered me as I got paid through direct deposit. You learn to manage your money around the $300 limit. I just recently got bumped to a impressive $3000 vs the $300 just by going into the branch and talking to a teller. I needed a higher limit for debit so I can pay rent through interac. I got it no problem. Apparantly I went from the student limit to a regular limit. Btw how bad is a NSF? I just got one on my PCF account but I've never had one ever in all my accounts.

[brunes]

+1

The OP made it sound like a hold on your deposit was a terrible thing. BMO always held my money for 5 business days for anything over $300 for years. It never really bothered me as I got paid through direct deposit. You learn to manage your money around the $300 limit. I just recently got bumped to a impressive $3000 vs the $300 just by going into the branch and talking to a teller. I needed a higher limit for debit so I can pay rent through interac. I got it no problem. Apparantly I went from the student limit to a regular limit. Btw how bad is a NSF? I just got one on my PCF account but I've never had one ever in all my accounts.

NSFis quite bad in that it will likely cost you $50+. PCF will charge you $35 then the other bank with the bounced funds will charge you as well.

Apply for overdraft. If you have moderate credit it is instant approval. Overdraft costs nothing at all unless your account dips into it, and if it does it is much less than an NSF fee. If you have any automatic withdraws from your bank account you should have overdraft in case your budgeting gets mixed up.

[setell]

NSFis quite bad in that it will likely cost you $50+. PCF will charge you $35 then the other bank with the bounced funds will charge you as well.

Apply for overdraft. If you have moderate credit it is instant approval. Overdraft costs nothing at all unless your account dips into it, and if it does it is much less than an NSF fee. If you have any automatic withdraws from your bank account you should have overdraft in case your budgeting gets mixed up.

Thanks for the tips Brunes. I'll apply for overdraft since it was my automatic payments that made me short. Better be safe than sorry.

[chrinFinity]

You are a credit risk. You admitted in your original post that you overdrew your account. You subsequently admitted that you have bounced cheques to your condo association.
Not true. Per my original post (did you read it?), I had a transfer set up ahead of time from my savings with adequate funds to cover the amount (ie, I planned responsibly). The issue is that my transfer was cancelled without notification to me due to the 5-day hold on my deposited funds. Read closer next time; I did not, I do not, bounce cheques.

Given your history of overdrawing your chequing account and bouncing cheques to your condo association, why on earth should PCF accept the risk that one of your future deposits will go sour without being adequately compensated for accepting the risk? Grow up and manage your finances in a responsible fashion. If you do not overdraw your account, do not bounce cheques or are not late on payments for the next 5 or 6 years, the banks will be prepared to trust you.

Unbelievable!
I think you have misunderstood my situation, or perhaps you are prejudging me based on the fact that I have had an NSF event, when the very point of my post is that PCF's irregular policies are the root cause of those NSFs to begin with.

FYI I am not a degenerate, I am a solid financial planner. It is PCF interfering with my otherwise sound cashflow management that is causing the issue here And again, pay attention this time when I reiterate that I am not a credit risk; my credit report returns a very good rating every time it is run.

Everyone else thanks for your replies :)

[crimsondr]

if you were as good as you say you are you would be able to account for the hold on your funds. You know of the hold restriction so you should be able to plan around it. In the end you bounced the transfer which in turn caused you to bounce the cheque.

[dealtacular]

I used to work for BMO.

What you are experiencing would just as easily have happened there, or at another bank, when dealing with an ATM. If you used a teller, your paycheques would usually have reduced holding time or amounts if you had a good banking history, perhaps even with some NSFs (unless it had been a paycheque that had gone NSF at some point, and provided you have sufficient balances in other accounts, bank doesn't suspect you of scamming, etc).

You would be better off with a B&M bank, but only if you were using a teller. Other banks would have likely done things the same way by policy, but sometimes, a staff member could help you out (same with PCF over the phone).

You should be using direct deposit.

[miron]

I am using PCF for 7 years and by default I had a $1000 deposit limit and a $1,400 overdraft which I'm using sometimes (without any negative consequences) when I forget to transfer in time enough money from savings. But I always put back the money in the same day and so I just paid the interest. The problem occurs because, if you have a prearranged payment and transfer from saving in the same day, they will first make the payment and then the transfer... in the end you'll be charged the interest being on overdraft for a few hours only. Only once I was over the day on the overdraft but it was a weekend day. And that happened as my cheque was deposited Friday afternoon. Before that, any cheque deposited Friday afternoon was taken Monday, not Saturday with the day of Monday. It was a change in their policy of which I was not aware. I called them and being a first time mistake, they waived the $4.97 fee. Not to mention that until a few years ago, it was no such a fee unless you go with the overdraft from a month to the next one.
2 years ago I called them to ask for an increase of the holding limit and they made me a huge nice surprise: my holding limit was already increased to $5,000, without me asking for it. I don't know when they did it :lol:

The bottom line is: If you are clean they will give you all the trust. I just hate to pay all those service fees and paid cheques... my experience with TD is terrible... I lost money because of their lack of communication. Someone said it is a long waiting time on the phone... you should see waiting time at TD... and if you go to a branch you should take a pillow with you... a nap is required many times :lol:

[miron]

It is PCF interfering with my otherwise sound cashflow management that is causing the issue here

I can understand your frustration but, please, take a deep breath first :)
I just had a "fight" these days with Altamira and I know exactly how you feel :cheesygri In the end I won my "war" today and so you will!

It's really a situation which you should understand. Leaving aside the NSF issue, a person with a solid financial situation should have enough room (meaning money) in the bank to be able to play around without being forced to withdraw ALL his paycheck at once. And if the desperately needed money is $400 only... it is ringing a bell about your planning a budget skills, whether you like it or not. It is similar to the Credit Card story: if you are using all your Credit limit almost 100% every month they will give you a bad score even if you didn't do any mistake...they see it as a risk. You have to use some 60-70% max. of your credit.
Back to the bank, you should have at least those $400 in savings all the time and you may transfer them into checking on the same day when your paycheck arrives. Then you can transfer the remaining $400 from your paycheck to saving in order not to lose the interest. Problem solved :rolleyes: Good Luck!

[Merlocke]

Step 1: Find a TD Canada Trust
Step 2: Wait for the iPod offer to defect to their bank
Step 3: Run, don't walk over to your TD
Step 4: Get iPod
Step 5: Get over PCF bastards by listening to happy music.

[miron]

Step 1: Find a TD Canada Trust
Step 2: Wait for the iPod offer to defect to their bank
Step 3: Run, don't walk over to your TD
Step 4: Get iPod
Step 5: Get over PCF bastards by listening to happy music.

And then you'll be crying all the way to the bank... and keep paying monthly fees for the rest of your life... making laughable interests... :lol:

[Merlocke]

And then you'll be crying all the way to the bank... and keep paying monthly fees for the rest of your life... making laughable interests... :lol:

I keep a balance on all of my accounts over 10k - so I pay no fees. Don't think of life in a negative fee based manner, or you'll never cross the threshold to wealth - ala the Secret.

I made my first million before the age of 30, raised from a poor family with no financial background at all whatsoever. You'll never make it based on earning laughable interest from anything. Until you make passive income in your sleep, keep counting your pennies in your savings accounts.

Don't ***** about other people's replies - just trying to help the OP. :mad:

[chrza]

Completely different online system, completely different CSR reps (PCF is in like india or something)

PC Financial's CSR offices are in east coast Canada, can't remember exactly where. They used to have offices here in Toronto when I first opened up an account.

[miron]

I keep a balance on all of my accounts over 10k - so I pay no fees. Don't think of life in a negative fee based manner, or you'll never cross the threshold to wealth - ala the Secret.

Not everybody is a millionaire and I don't think we have too many around on this forum... or too many people who keep 10k in checking account to lose so much interest, which, by the way, it's a bad idea. The lost interest is much higher than the fees you do not pay...
I do think of life in a very positive manner going to the right bank after searching all the available options. In my opinion, for most people, the virtual banks are the best option today. TD is a good bank only from one point of view: you can find them anywhere... that's why they give a very low interest.

I made my first million before the age of 30, raised from a poor family with no financial background at all whatsoever.

Today the situation is different, once you had much many opportunities!

Until you make passive income in your sleep, keep counting your pennies in your savings accounts.

I have news for you: without any efforts I am making almost $100/month and I am a low earner.
If someone will give you $100 for doing nothing (except some computer work at home) wouldn't you take it?

Don't ***** about other people's replies - just trying to help the OP. :mad:
Step 5: Get over PCF bastards by listening to happy music.

It's better to laugh about interests (I was not laughing about your reply but about TD's interests) than to swear...

OP can choose any other bank... but as you see a lot of solutions are available... going to TD would the last one in my opinion.

[halflife150]

I made my first million before the age of 30, raised from a poor family with no financial background at all whatsoever. You'll never make it based on earning laughable interest from anything. Until you make passive income in your sleep, keep counting your pennies in your savings accounts.

More importantly is if you still have the million. From your various posts it seems you just finished reading a financial book and are just regurgitating what you read. Further problem is that book appears to be "Rich Dad Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki, which I hear doesn't offer any good financial advice at all. Add that to the pm you sent me about obvious ways to make money that ended up being nothing more then a leverage ladder with each investment leveraged from the previous one. I wouldn't be surprised if your above quote is word for word right out of "Rich Dad Poor Dad".

Is is really tacky to build yourself up even if is true, unlikely as it may seem.