$200 Jeans?

[DJ Trance AZ]

I was @ this shop yesterday located in The Distillery District and found a really nice pair of jeans for $200CDN...Now the sales told me the denim's from Japan and processed in Canada...The jeans itself is very thick.

So for those who own expensive jeans, how would you compare your expensive collection with your other collection (e.g., Gap)?

[mingyang]

Man...... I bought a Jean from Gap for 80 bucks, if you consider that low end then this is really ********.

[joe_j]

What brand?

[DJ Trance AZ]

Forgot to check the brand...but it's from Lileo (the shop from Distillery).

[rilles]

I bought these jeans for $100 once, jack of spades or something. they look like jeans but are stretchy and o-so-comfy.

[undfnd]

jeans sound like naked and famous. I bought a pair a while ago, but I found the stitching quality wasn't up to par. The denim was really great though.

I got a pair of New standards a few months ago and they are definitely my favourite jean. I have a pair of old beater gap boot cuts though and the denim is so worked in and soft that it's almost like wearign sweat pants. It's definitely a 50/50 between those jeans.

[KonniXeoN]

A lot of 'japanese' denim is fake...
So many in China. If you don't get a legit one you can get ripped off reall bad.

Those thick quality jeans you can get online, for like $30.00 canadian.
If you want to find real legit 200$ jeans, go find some levis premiums or go to holt renfrew.

If you thought 200$ was expensive, a buddy of mine has a closet with over 5000$ worth in jeans...
All kept with original receipt and tags. He never washes his jeans until 3 months later, to get the best fade.

[Cruel_Angel]

A lot of 'japanese' denim is fake...
So many in China. If you don't get a legit one you can get ripped off reall bad.

Those thick quality jeans you can get online, for like $30.00 canadian.
If you want to find real legit 200$ jeans, go find some levis premiums or go to holt renfrew.

If you thought 200$ was expensive, a buddy of mine has a closet with over 5000$ worth in jeans...
All kept with original receipt and tags. He never washes his jeans until 3 months later, to get the best fade.

First off, where do you get your information that a lot of Japanese denim is "FAKE"? Are you talking about the actual fabric? Or the brands?

As for thick quality 30 dollar jeans, again what the heck are you talking about? You realize people are not paying for jeans based on their thickness, those expensive "thick" jeans have a whole lot more to them, than I care to explain, but if you look it up online you'll realize how much of an art it really is producing some of these jeans.

Why would your friend keep the receipts and tags? Does he leave them on the jeans and wear them for 3 months so he can show off the price? Stop riding your friends nuts, nobody cares about his 5000 dollar jean collection.

[dasaylay]

A lot of 'japanese' denim is fake...
So many in China. If you don't get a legit one you can get ripped off reall bad.

Those thick quality jeans you can get online, for like $30.00 canadian.
If you want to find real legit 200$ jeans, go find some levis premiums or go to holt renfrew.

If you thought 200$ was expensive, a buddy of mine has a closet with over 5000$ worth in jeans...
All kept with original receipt and tags. He never washes his jeans until 3 months later, to get the best fade.

lol...

First off, where do you get your information that a lot of Japanese denim is "FAKE"? Are you talking about the actual fabric? Or the brands?

As for thick quality 30 dollar jeans, again what the heck are you talking about? You realize people are not paying for jeans based on their thickness, those expensive "thick" jeans have a whole lot more to them, than I care to explain, but if you look it up online you'll realize how much of an art it really is producing some of these jeans.

Why would your friend keep the receipts and tags? Does he leave them on the jeans and wear them for 3 months so he can show off the price? Stop riding your friends nuts, nobody cares about his 5000 dollar jean collection.

You tell his ass!

[KonniXeoN]

First off, where do you get your information that a lot of Japanese denim is "FAKE"? Are you talking about the actual fabric? Or the brands?

As for thick quality 30 dollar jeans, again what the heck are you talking about? You realize people are not paying for jeans based on their thickness, those expensive "thick" jeans have a whole lot more to them, than I care to explain, but if you look it up online you'll realize how much of an art it really is producing some of these jeans.

Why would your friend keep the receipts and tags? Does he leave them on the jeans and wear them for 3 months so he can show off the price? Stop riding your friends nuts, nobody cares about his 5000 dollar jean collection.

Dude don't be so defensive. I was just saying, that there are a lot of fakes on the market. An example are the Evisu jeans. The fakes are near 100%. Most sellers like to say its "Japanese denim". I know how much of an art it is in producing some of the jeans..

I said my friend wears his jeans without washing for 3 months before he washes them so he can get a fading effect like how he walked in them. He does not leave the tags and receipt on them... He keeps them for record. I was just trying to say that some people are dead serious about collecting jeans.

[Vashin]

I was @ this shop yesterday located in The Distillery District and found a really nice pair of jeans for $200CDN...Now the sales told me the denim's from Japan and processed in Canada...The jeans itself is very thick.

So for those who own expensive jeans, how would you compare your expensive collection with your other collection (e.g., Gap)?

Maybe wings and horns?

[dasaylay]

Dude don't be so defensive. I was just saying, that there are a lot of fakes on the market. An example are the Evisu jeans. The fakes are near 100%. Most sellers like to say its "Japanese denim". I know how much of an art it is in producing some of the jeans..

I said my friend wears his jeans without washing for 3 months before he washes them so he can get a fading effect like how he walked in them. He does not leave the tags and receipt on them... He keeps them for record. I was trying to say that some people are dead serious about collecting jeans.

Fake evisus do not use selvedge denim. That's usually a tell tale sign that they're fakes. Though most hypebeast kids who wear evisu probably don't even know how to tell if its real or not.

Your friend wears raws.

[Cruel_Angel]

Dude don't be so defensive. I was just saying, that there are a lot of fakes on the market. An example are the Evisu jeans. The fakes are near 100%. Most sellers like to say its "Japanese denim". I know how much of an art it is in producing some of the jeans..

I said my friend wears his jeans without washing for 3 months before he washes them so he can get a fading effect like how he walked in them. He does not leave the tags and receipt on them... He keeps them for record. I was trying to say that some people are dead serious about collecting jeans.

Ok, but you made claims about fake Japanese denim, when the OP was talking about the fabric being Japanese. Seems like your just repeating everything you "know" about denim without actually having a clue. The 30 dollar thick quality denim is what got me! Go get levis premium, Go get "legit" 200 dollar jeans. Stop hypebeasting, and stop writing about topics you have little to no clue about. Read a book, go out and wear some jeans, then please join the discussion. It's people like you that really throw people off when they are trying to look for real information.

[ben_liu]

you tell him cruel_angel:cheesygri

[KonniXeoN]

Ok, but you made claims about fake Japanese denim, when the OP was talking about the fabric being Japanese. Seems like your just repeating everything you "know" about denim without actually having a clue. The 30 dollar thick quality denim is what got me! Go get levis premium, Go get "legit" 200 dollar jeans. Stop hypebeasting, and stop writing about topics you have little to no clue about. Read a book, go out and wear some jeans, then please join the discussion. It's people like you that really throw people off when they are trying to look for real information.

I just don't want the guy to end up buying something which is fake, so I'm giving him a little heads up. I am reading a book, and I am wearing jeans right now. I can post whenever, wherever, and however I want. You don't have to be a guru to speak or express your opinion. Since your the professional, by all means quit bickering about my comments and spread some light on this topic.

[Vashin]

Well he's not buying off of ebay, he''d be buying from Lileo probably which sells some great stuff. Some smaller brands that don't get faked, because usually they don't have big branding on the clothing.

[Cruel_Angel]

I just don't want the guy to end up buying something which is fake, so I'm giving him a little heads up. I am reading a book, and I am wearing jeans right now. I can post whenever, wherever, and however I want. You don't have to be a guru to speak or express your opinion. Since your the professional, by all means quit bickering about my comments and spread some light on this topic.

You aren't giving him a little heads up. Perhaps you think you are, but in reality you are spreading a lot of misinformation. Also, you seem to get confused a lot. The OP was talking about fabric, and you started talking about knock off brands. I said go read a book, and you said you were.. What kind of book are you reading? If we are having a discussion about denim, and I say go read a book.. One would assume I mean a book about denim, right?!? Now are you reading Harry Potter, or a book on denim? Oh and what kind of jeans are you wearing?

[red120]

Some confuzzled cats in this thread..

Faking a brand and faking a fabric are different. There's a lot of fake brand jeans out there, and some counterfeits will even put fake selvege in there, but no real such thing as faking a fabric.

If you're going to go through the process to produce a fabric in a certain way with regards to RH/LH, twill weave, selvedge, stitch, sourcing and dying process, etc. then it is produced in that way.. it can't be fake unless you claim it's something it's not.

And the OP is at a physical shop, so he should be able to tell these things anyways.

[spect21]

off topic but.. i've seen "blue blood" jeans for 150 $ @ winners.. not so expensive compared to my other jeans ( diesel, true religion and 3 pairs of premium guess). i was amazed by the quality of the fabric and the overall look and was about to buy them, then discovered that the jeans are made in Tunisia :( and 150 $ for brand name jeans made in Tunisia is not worth it.

btw.. what happened to G-star, i bought a mil style jacket last season.. made in spain. this season their whole line up of clothes is extremely overpriced ( 350 for jeans) and the production is outsourced.

[dasaylay]

Blue Blood isn't a bad company. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if your 'premium' brands were made in the likes of Mexico, China or Pakistan as well. Oh noes your monies!

[nfnx]

I said my friend wears his jeans without washing for 3 months before he washes them so he can get a fading effect like how he walked in them. He does not leave the tags and receipt on them... He keeps them for record. I was just trying to say that some people are dead serious about collecting jeans.



ive worn mine for 11 months now :)

[JC69]

ive worn mine for 11 months now :)

There's easier ways to get your own seat on the TTC

[CSAgent]

I once saw a pair of GAP jeans that were $500, at the GAP corner of Yonge and Dundas, a long time ago. GAP's no longer there now.

[walprice]

There's a difference between washed and raw. I would not compare washed and raw due to price. There are expensive washed and there are inexpensive washed.

Since I hear about this "Japanese" denim. I am going to have to assume you are talking about Japanese dry selvage denim which would be in the raw category. I have found that this category of jeans to be in the $180+ CAD area which is expensive. These jeans are more delicate because they are known to rip around the crotch after wearing without wash for 6 months. The ultimate goal is to wear in your own custom distress into the denim and keep a deep indigo sheen to the finish of the fabric. after 1 year of wear they will look like unique and you would probably be able to identify your pair in a pile of the same jeans of the same size worn by others because they were worn in for your body and nobody elses. After your first wash you really see the distress markings of your body. Hope this justifies the high tags. I have a pair of Jean Shop, in my opinion they have aged better than any pair of Nudies, or APCs. But there's a much bigger price difference between Jean Shop and those others too. And it takes a long time to break in. It's very uncomfortable at first! Lileo sells Jean Shop and they retail over $300+ but in my opinion well worth it, they age well! I found Lileo to be pretty expensive for everything they sell but they are backed with very high quality apparel and brands that don't ***** themselves. Plus as a customer, you have the freedom to bargain/haggle with the owners who always happen to be present in the store. I don't trust online, rather pay and ease my mind knowing I got the real thing now and not constantly tracking my order or the authenticity of the item.

I was not impressed by Naked & Famous' 21 oz denim jeans. However, I have seen lots of APC New Standards and they look fabulous new. And they too age not so bad, but Nudies seem to age better in my opinion. Though I can't stand that flash nudie advertising stitch pocket... Eck!
I found Cheap Mondays to be good value and those retail the lowest. Not sure if it's japanese dry but the cuts are damn hip!

I've grown to find an appreciation for Levis. The Shrink To Fits have the same purpose as these raw jeans for a much lower price of $70 (non selvage), cheaper if you go to the states or buy online. I bought a pair of selvaged STF, $160 , over the summer and so far so good. The denim on these are not like Japanese dry, but they are raw as in never washed. I have found them to soften up fast but if I want to stiffen it like Japanese dry I can use starch and therefore cause more wear into them. Kinda messy process to go through... but it's something I'm fascinated with. I don't suggest you starch Japanese dry because it's already very hard and stiff. All in all my favs are my Jean Shop but these Levis STF come close and will outlast my Jean Shops because the denim is much more durable than Japanese dry. Levis is the king of jeans because they are the true original. If you want something better than STF, I suggest you go into some raw Levis Vintage aka LVC but be prepared to spend BIG $$$$$. Money well spent because it's backed by practical, durable, quality fabric and they are far more rare. I love the 1947 501 LVCs and Japanese Red Loop 501s with selvage. Might grab me a pair in two weeks. If you are not fancy and don't want to spend much but want respectable jeans get the Shrink to fits. US made ones are supposedly better made than the Mexican ones. I really don't know the difference between the two. Most are made in Mexico.

I also have a pair of washed sugar canes and I love those as well. Those Japanese definately know denim and cut well. Canes are very similar to Levis. Gap cannot compare! I've seen Club Monaco come out with a decent dry selvage recently. Banana Republic has nice washed denim. Hmmm... still all these are not cheap but they are cheaper. I would not bother to even notice Sears, Bay, Markswork Warehouse Levis. Sue me, I'm a jeans snob.
Stay away from Thrifties *puke jeans*... The more bling designs on the pocket like LRG, Fake Red Monkeys (nobody really has authentic ones of those except celebs), Evisu, True Religion... eck it's all bling you will eventually grow out of and will end up being a waste of your money.

[phomanny]

and you will eventually grow out of raw denim

[ben_liu]

^ yes, but than by that time we saved a lot of money cause we only wear one pair of jeans. Unless your a denim head with multiple pairs :P

[blizzah]

walprice, nudie blue black is for you then

[Vashin]

and you will eventually grow out of raw denim

That's silly. Raw Denim is classic, it's been worn since Jeans were first made. People will always wear raw denim even after this 'trend' fades away. It's like saying you will grow out of wearing tweed blazers.

[No Turbo Lag]

I've heard so much about this Japanese denim and I really want to buy a pair this year.

I think its a pretty good investment to get a nice pair of jeans considering how many times a year you wear them.

[JC69]

I've heard so much about this Japanese denim and I really want to buy a pair this year.

I think its a pretty good investment to get a nice pair of jeans considering how many times a year you wear them.

You are a fashion advertisers dream.

[ekimnal]

I've heard so much about this Japanese denim and I really want to buy a pair this year.

I think its a pretty good investment to get a nice pair of jeans considering how many times a year you wear them.

Go with the APC New Standard.
If you haven't tried raw denim before and don't know if you can go through with wearing your denim for some number of months without wash, then this would be the pair recommended by most people. These aren't super expensive and aren't the best quality but its a good starter pair, but they are way better then the ones you find at the GAP. You can generally find it for $155 - $200 online. Make sure you size down ATLEAST 2 sizes from what you norally wear, if not, then size down 3. These jeans stretch like a mofo after a month of wear.

[undfnd]

Go with the New Standard........or go with Naked & Famous. They are cheaper than New Standards and you can find them in Toronto probably for cheaper. They aren't stitched as well nor do they have the little intricacies but they are at least 40 dollars cheaper here in Toronto.

Make sure with the APC you try a pair on before you buy (must be really tight, esp at the waist. have to not easily do the top button, or barely able to get it on)

[DJ Trance AZ]

Any comments re: Club Monaco's US made jeans? I think they are around $160CDN a pair...

[bryanayrb]

you can buy APCs or something worthwhile for that price

[blizzah]

Any comments re: Club Monaco's US made jeans? I think they are around $160CDN a pair...


Just because they are made in US means nothing.

They are probably just normal 7fam wannabes.

[DaVibe]

You want expensive jeans, check out winners ... I saw a pair of $250 Jeans this week, regular retail $400 :lol:

[DJ Trance AZ]

I finally went back to Lileo today and bought it! The brand is Naked and Famous and I really really like it...The wash is great and it's my first time buying jeans this expensive...When I checked out, they were trying to sell me this $20 fabric softener but I didn't get it...What do you guys suggest?

[theCSbully]

Which model did you get? Slim Guy or Weird Guy? Or? But just wear them everyday and as much as possible. Don't wash unless you REALLY have too.(grass stain? forget it, mud? it'll come off , rain? let it rain, poo?? wash it).
for atleast 6 months. That's just the general rule of thumb...

[sPiKyAZN]

I finally went back to Lileo today and bought it! The brand is Naked and Famous and I really really like it...The wash is great and it's my first time buying jeans this expensive...When I checked out, they were trying to sell me this $20 fabric softener but I didn't get it...What do you guys suggest?

That's odd, never heard of using fabric softener for raw denim. If anything some people starch their jeans in different areas to help with the creases.

[DJ Trance AZ]

Oh I bought their 21oz. SlimGuy Super-Thick Indigo Selvedge and it's really thick...Besides Lileo, do you know of any other place that carry this kind of jeans (possibly with more selections)?

Opps...I didn't mean fabric softener, but anti-bacterial fabric freshener...It's basically to keep the jeans smells good because you aren't washing them for months...So what you recommend?

[dasaylay]

over the rainbow

[mr_smartman]

over the rainbow is sh-it fixed

go to places like nomad, but lileo is pretty good for ur range

[dasaylay]

fixed

go to places like nomad, but lileo is pretty good for ur range

OTR is garbage, I agree...but my response was only in regard to N&F. :)

[DJ Trance AZ]

Hey guys, is there a way to shrink my new jeans? I bought one size bigger since they didn't have my size...

[Nikita]

I was @ this shop yesterday located in The Distillery District and found a really nice pair of jeans for $200CDN...Now the sales told me the denim's from Japan and processed in Canada...The jeans itself is very thick.

So for those who own expensive jeans, how would you compare your expensive collection with your other collection (e.g., Gap)?

I generally buy my everyday jeans from the Gap, but I have a couple really expensive pairs, both around $200. They rock! The fit is the best, but the reason I bought those particular ones were simply cuz they each had some special feature/design that appealed to me. Meh...you get what you pay for.

Man...... I bought a Jean from Gap for 80 bucks, if you consider that low end then this is really ********.

Gap jeans are great for the price. As I said I buy most of my jeans there, usually between $75-100, and they last forever! Great quality and styles IMO!

[ben_liu]

yikes, bad choice... but you can try soaking them in HOT HOT HOT water... for like 30 minutes. Best go hop over here....
(http://hypecrew.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
BTW how much did you pay?

[DJ Trance AZ]

yikes, bad choice... but you can try soaking them in HOT HOT HOT water... for like 30 minutes. Best go hop over here....
(http://hypecrew.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
BTW how much did you pay?

$192+txes.

[blizzah]

Hey guys, is there a way to shrink my new jeans? I bought one size bigger since they didn't have my size...

You prob should have just waited, or ask them to order for you or buy it somewhere else.

Whatever you do it won't be as good a fit. You can always get tehm altered?

[DJ Trance AZ]

You prob should have just waited, or ask them to order for you or buy it somewhere else.

Whatever you do it won't be as good a fit. You can always get tehm altered?

I tried on a few pair of jeans yesterday @ the shop and one of them being APC something...It was a super skinny fit and super tight...The salesman said it was the one for me...However, I didn't wanna get something that tight and I didn't really like the wash...So I ended up getting the N&F one that's a bit loose on the waist. I got the Size 30 where I usually wear Size 32...

Anyway, I have yet to wear it...but soon, heh.

[DJ Trance AZ]

I went to Over the Rainbow yesterday and bought another pair of Naked & Famous (Skinny Guy Silk Denim). I bought a size 30 and it fits me so well...Now I'm happy ;)

[dasaylay]

I tried on a few pair of jeans yesterday @ the shop and one of them being APC something...It was a super skinny fit and super tight...The salesman said it was the one for me...However, I didn't wanna get something that tight and I didn't really like the wash...So I ended up getting the N&F one that's a bit loose on the waist. I got the Size 30 where I usually wear Size 32...

Anyway, I have yet to wear it...but soon, heh.

Probably New Cures

[akademiks]

What is a good place to buy jeans from? I'm looking to spend around ~$100-120.
I know I won't be getting anything great, but it's pretty much what I can afford. I'm sick of cheap flea market jeans with terrible fit. Only thing is that I look rediculous in fitted jeans since I have huge legs.

[sPiKyAZN]

I went to Over the Rainbow yesterday and bought another pair of Naked & Famous (Skinny Guy Silk Denim). I bought a size 30 and it fits me so well...Now I'm happy ;)

How much?

[DJ Trance AZ]

How much?

$180CDN inclusive.

[ben_liu]

What is a good place to buy jeans from? I'm looking to spend around ~$100-120.
I know I won't be getting anything great, but it's pretty much what I can afford. I'm sick of cheap flea market jeans with terrible fit. Only thing is that I look rediculous in fitted jeans since I have huge legs.

Huge legs?? -> fork out $155~~ USD and get a pair of A.P.C Rescues.

[JC69]

What is a good place to buy jeans from? I'm looking to spend around ~$100-120.
I know I won't be getting anything great, but it's pretty much what I can afford. I'm sick of cheap flea market jeans with terrible fit. Only thing is that I look rediculous in fitted jeans since I have huge legs.

Who says you can't get good jeans for that price or below? You've been brandwashed my friend. The only people who agree with you are the people marketing the overpriced items.

[DJ Trance AZ]

I also bought a very good fitted Cheap Monday jeans too...and it was only $70 from Urban Outfitters.

[Nikita]

What is a good place to buy jeans from? I'm looking to spend around ~$100-120.
I know I won't be getting anything great, but it's pretty much what I can afford. I'm sick of cheap flea market jeans with terrible fit. Only thing is that I look rediculous in fitted jeans since I have huge legs.

I'd try the Gap. It's the one place that I can depend on always finding a good fit in a number of different styles and their jeans are within your price range.

[akademiks]

Huge legs?? -> fork out $155~~ USD and get a pair of A.P.C Rescues.

Yeah.. I'm pretty short too, that's the horrible thing. So I look fat when I have to wear wider legged jeans.
$155 is kinda out of my pricerange though :(
Who says you can't get good jeans for that price or below? You've been brandwashed my friend. The only people who agree with you are the people marketing the overpriced items.

Maybe.. I usually spend $40-50 on jeans and am not a fan of the quality.
I'd try the Gap. It's the one place that I can depend on always finding a good fit in a number of different styles and their jeans are within your price range.

Will try a pair out next time I go to the mall.

[DJ Trance AZ]

The Gap Outlet @ Vaughan Mills will open on Oct.24...So if you wanna wait...

[grah7830]

OTR is an absolutely terrible trend-whoreish store.

For good denim in Toronto, go to Lileo, Nomad, or Sydney's. Sydney (of Sydney's, obviously) also makes bespoke jeans made from raw Japanese selvedge denim.

Personally, I wear Kicking Mule Workshop jeans exclusively. I am in absolute love with them and in awe of the quality and workmanship. They're $375 at Lileo but can be found for $275 pretty easily at US retailers online (but go to Lileo first to check cuts and size).

[Gogi]

Books on denim ? Boy what a bunch of crap. Buy whatever appeals to you lookwise and that you're comfy in. I bought some expensive Firetrap jeans (I think they retailed to about 190 after tax) , and I've worn them once. If I had to give up my Aeropostales (paid 15 bux with 50% off) or the Firetraps, I wouldn't think for a second. Expensive does not always equal comfort & quality.

[grah7830]

Expensive does not always equal comfort & quality.

Of course not, but expensive does not always equal ripoff either.

A BMW 750i isn't the same thing as a Ford Focus, even though they're both cars.

[JC69]

Of course not, but expensive does not always equal ripoff either.

A BMW 750i isn't the same thing as a Ford Focus, even though they're both cars.

I think the analogy between complex mechanical devices and dyed cotton goods might be stretching it a little don't you?

[grah7830]

I think the analogy between complex mechanical devices and dyed cotton goods might be stretching it a little don't you?

Not at all.

Better materials, better (handmade) workmanship, better comfort, better style, better longevity.

If you want to deconstruct it, then that BMW is just a bunch of painted metal. But we both know that's not true. And neither is it true that KMWs, for example, are just "dyed cotton goods."

[JC69]

Not at all.

Better materials, better (handmade) workmanship, better comfort, better style, better longevity.

If you want to deconstruct it, then that BMW is just a bunch of painted metal. But we both know that's not true. And neither is it true that KMWs, for example, are just "dyed cotton goods."

And that's entirely subjective and is the stock byline when trying to market clothes. Look through the past pages and you'll find plenty of people who own cheaper items that have lasted and are comfortable that would disagree with you and therefore have a factual argument against your supposition.

You pay more for a BMW against a Ford Focus because it goes faster and has higher tech components.

You pay more for very expensive jeans in most cases because of a label on the back!

[ben_liu]

^ have you ever tried on raw denim? :o

[Nikita]

^ have you ever tried on raw denim? :o

I haven't and I don't even know what 'raw denim' means. Raw as opposed to what? Do you have a pic you could post? Does it look different or is it just different quality or what?

[grah7830]

And that's entirely subjective and is the stock byline when trying to market clothes. Look through the past pages and you'll find plenty of people who own cheaper items that have lasted and are comfortable that would disagree with you and therefore have a factual argument against your supposition.

You pay more for very expensive jeans in most cases because of a label on the back!

Please find me two things:

1. Any advertising for Kicking Mule Workshop clothing (their own website doesn't even have any copy); and,
2. Any visible logos/labels on Kicking Mule Workshop jeans.

We're not talking about hyper-inflated mall brand jeans like 7FAM or True Religion.

True boutique denim is in a class of its own. And you're just preaching your ignorance on the subject with posts like the above.

The simple and objective facts are that the materials and workmanship are of a higher quality.

Yes, style and comfort are entirely subjective, as is the perception of value; but, again, true boutique denim is in a class of its own relative to mall brands, expensive or not.

[red120]

And that's entirely subjective and is the stock byline when trying to market clothes. Look through the past pages and you'll find plenty of people who own cheaper items that have lasted and are comfortable that would disagree with you and therefore have a factual argument against your supposition.

You pay more for a BMW against a Ford Focus because it goes faster and has higher tech components.

You pay more for very expensive jeans in most cases because of a label on the back!
For every person who's concerned about performance and components, you can find another person who just looks at cars as A to B.

For every person who's uneducated about textiles and design, you can find another person who isn't.

@ Grah

What's the story on KMW?.. I haven't heard anything about this line yet.. but I've been in and out of the denim scene lately.

[grah7830]

I haven't and I don't even know what 'raw denim' means. Raw as opposed to what? Do you have a pic you could post? Does it look different or is it just different quality or what?

These are the jeans I'm wearing today:

http://www.contextclothing.com/brands/kicking_mule/images/1980.jpg

[grah7830]

What's the story on KMW?.. I haven't heard anything about this line yet.. but I've been in and out of the denim scene lately.

I'm not sure how long they've been around, but they're a Boulder-based company. They're made of organic Zimbabwean cotton, rope dyed in Natural Indigo, and the fabric is produced and the jeans tailored in Okayama Prefecture Japan.

Copy/pasted from a blog:

Boulder-based KMW produces denim for those who appreciate quality, details and subtlety; for those who want to make their jeans their own. They make a few styles (for guys) including the 1950 Classic, 1980 Skinny, Rocker and 2010 Straight, which are available in a range of weights from 13 - 19 oz. depending on the edition. The denim is made from Zimbabwean cotton, is rope dyed in natural Indigo, and made in Japan's Okayama prefecture.

My 1980's are mid-rise, regular fit jean with oversized but understated back pockets. A slight taper give them a clean look without giving up the comfy, roomy feel. The 13oz weight is perfect and is breaking in nicely. The coin pocket features a red and blue selvage line (which is a point of some debate on the boards) but a detail I like. Some other details include hidden rivets, doughnut buttons, and an embroidered kicking mule on the inside of the fly.

[grah7830]

I haven't and I don't even know what 'raw denim' means. Raw as opposed to what? Do you have a pic you could post? Does it look different or is it just different quality or what?

Oh, and raw basically means that they don't come pre-washed, there's no pre-fading, and there's no pre-distressing.

The idea is that because they're not pre-washed, the dye hasn't set...so as you wear them, they fade to your own body shape and wear patterns. So, rather than wearing jeans that are pre-faded based on what the brand thinks is a "typical" body type, they fade/wear to your own.

Raw doesn't necessarily mean that they're better quality, though.

[red120]

I'm not sure how long they've been around, but they're a Boulder-based company. They're made of organic Zimbabwean cotton, rope dyed in Natural Indigo, and the fabric is produced and the jeans tailored in Okayama Prefecture Japan.

Copy/pasted from a blog:
Mmm.. interesting.

Been actually staying away from Japanese denim lately.. not feeling the typical silhouette now that everyone is rocking it.

Maybe I'll cop a pair just to check them out. Anyone stocking them in NYC? Or have an online link?

[grah7830]

Mmm.. interesting.

Been actually staying away from Japanese denim lately.. not feeling the typical silhouette now that everyone is rocking it.

Maybe I'll cop a pair just to check them out. Anyone stocking them in NYC? Or have an online link?

http://www.contextclothing.com/brand.php?brand=Kicking%20Mule%20Workshop

The 1980s are a classic straight leg jean.

[JC69]

Hmmm..here's ignorance for you....natural indigo and synthetic indigo dyes contain the same active dyestuff and therefore same colour...and glad to see that the jeans you quote come from Zimbabwean sourced materials....because as we all know, Zimbabwe is a very model of modern world citizenship. So far then..lots of fancy marketing hype.

Now..hand made might well make a difference but perhaps more to the point that each pair of jeans might be slightly unique. As for cut...do you really think that modern jean manufacturers haven't thought of unpicking the seams of jeans and copying the cuts? Civilisations have been reverse engineering things for years...and tailoring is one of the older professions. Feed a plan into modern machinery and hey-presto...lots of copies of machine made jeans with the same cut as your boutique specimins at a lower price.

Seriously..nothing wrong with liking expensive jeans but claiming a vastly superior product that is worth the 4-5 X price hike of some other jeans is stretching it. You are paying for the exclusivity and if that's valuable to you then great.

Edit: The reason that the cotton in Zimbabwe is organic is probably because they can't actually afford pesticides with the 1,000,000% inflation they currently have. Just something to ponder.

[red120]

Hmmm..here's ignorance for you....natural indigo and synthetic indigo dyes contain the same active dyestuff and therefore same colour...
I stopped reading here.

Have you ever seen the results of natural vs. synthetic dye?

Really.

[JC69]

I stopped reading here.

Have you ever seen the results of natural vs. synthetic dye?

Really.

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.

[red120]

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.
After a few pages of nothing but cynical one-liners in this thread, you're suddenly a lecturer and an expert on the subject? Right.

Considering neither of us is running a textile mill in his basement, here's an easier example:

Find a low-level item on the market that has comparable colour quality and characteristics as ultra-premium denim. Chroma, hue, value, fade, etc. It won't happen. Who are you going to go to? Wranglers? Sevens? Levis*?

*: Yes, I know Levis has select high-end stuff as well.

[JC69]

Far from suddenly...I think it's taken me 20 years to get here.

[Vashin]

Mmm.. interesting.

Been actually staying away from Japanese denim lately.. not feeling the typical silhouette now that everyone is rocking it.

Maybe I'll cop a pair just to check them out. Anyone stocking them in NYC? Or have an online link?

KMW is an american company that uses japanese denim. Even with Japanese denim companies there are plenty of different cuts. Check out a brand called stronghold, they have some pretty cool stuff

[red120]

KMW is an american company that uses japanese denim. Even with Japanese denim companies there are plenty of different cuts. Check out a brand called stronghold, they have some pretty cool stuff

Yes, definately.. but if you were to group all Japanese denim, you'd see a lot of mainline trends emerging.

What I mean is that you look at stuff like Sugarcanes, Samurais, Evisu JP.. a lot of stuff is instantly recognizable.. others may disagree, I guess.

Saw Stronghold's stuff back when Revolve used to carry it, not really a fan..

[Vashin]

http://acontinuouslean.com/2008/07/14/the-stronghold/ The also have a MTM line, and they don't use japanese denim. They use Cone denim which is from the US and the only producer of selvedge denim in the us

Also those brands you mentioned, specifically sugarcane and samurai, they are repro brands so technically they should look like the old school levi's. But I'm pretty sure there is probably some more fashion oriented lines of denim.

Maybe also check out stuff by robert gellar (a 'designer' type jean), ACNE (Swedish? I dunno but def european), April77 (super skinny cuts), Nom De Guerre (Some interesting jeans in heather/grey/charcoal), Rag and Bone (For 'dressier' jeans, they have lined waistbands!)

[red120]

http://acontinuouslean.com/2008/07/14/the-stronghold/ The also have a MTM line, and they don't use japanese denim. They use Cone denim which is from the US and the only producer of selvedge denim in the us

Also those brands you mentioned, specifically sugarcane and samurai, they are repro brands so technically they should look like the old school levi's. But I'm pretty sure there is probably some more fashion oriented lines of denim.

Maybe also check out stuff by robert gellar (a 'designer' type jean), ACNE (Swedish? I dunno but def european), April77 (super skinny cuts), Nom De Guerre (Some interesting jeans in heather/grey/charcoal), Rag and Bone (For 'dressier' jeans, they have lined waistbands!)
Yeah.. nonetheless, still not too big a fan of Stronghold. M2M denim is an interesting idea.. I think 45RPM was doing it too a while back, but I never ended up getting anything.

NDG was nice back in its heyday, the quality seems to have gone downhill.

You're right, Geller isn't bad.

[Vashin]

haha I kind of want a pair of strongholds eventually... They make a hickory striped jean that SHOUTS railway 1920s-30s railway conductor. F;ing awesome

[xinhang]

Yes..I lectured on the synthesis of synthetic indigo versus extraction of natural indigo last year to Grad students. PM me, I'll tell you how to make synthetic indigo which is exactly the same formula as the natural pigment. In the same PM I'll let you know how you extract natural indigo and why you end up with the same product.

Education is a marvelous thing, it often helps you see through hype and spin.

I agree. Synthetic indigo and natural is the same. It is the same chemical therefore it is the same. Just like how synthetic vitamin is the same as naturally extracted vitamin. It is the same chemcial formula. I laugh at the fools who think they are not

After a few pages of nothing but cynical one-liners in this thread, you're suddenly a lecturer and an expert on the subject? Right.

Considering neither of us is running a textile mill in his basement, here's an easier example:

Find a low-level item on the market that has comparable colour quality and characteristics as ultra-premium denim. Chroma, hue, value, fade, etc. It won't happen. Who are you going to go to? Wranglers? Sevens? Levis*?

*: Yes, I know Levis has select high-end stuff as well.

The better color is not caused by the dye, but process of the jean after putting the dye on them. Maybe this will make it clear for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4rUb3chziY

All premium denim are hand "washed" afterwards for that special color quality, and cheap denim are mass produced by using enzyme that disgust cellulose to mimic the hand washed color. Basically you are paying premium price for labour. I collect RR jeans and i never pay over 150 for each pair (except few very rare ones). The MSRP is too high, but for under 150 they are definitely worth it.

[scoobydoo]

That video on the youtube link doesn't load... :( Btw, synthetic and natural vitamins are completely different.

[xinhang]

That video on the youtube link doesn't load... :( Btw, synthetic and natural vitamins are completely different.

just tried it and it works. They are definitely the same. Let's say vitamin D for example. It has a specific chemical structure that can be synthetically made or extracted, but no matter what it will be that chemical structure. If the chemical structure is different in synthetic one it will not bind to receptors and have any effect on the body. Any variation from that ONE specific chemical structure will not be vitamin D