9800GX2 or 4870X2

[Viper98]

with ncix putting the 9800gx2 on sale for $290 I'm thinking of buying one
I was set on getting teh 4870 x2 but from what i've seen these are two pretty even cards(the 9800gx2 holding it's own against, and even beating the 4870x2 in many games) and with it being AT LEAST $200 cheaper(4870x2 will go for $500 minimum in the US.. probably $550 here based on 4870 prices) I could almost get 2x 9800gx2 for the price of 1 4870x2
then I just need a good 780i motherboard with that and i'd be set


which option you think is best to go with?










edit: never mind buying 2 9800gx2s.. I'll stick with my P5WDH Deluxe and then I can always use evga's step up to get the new nvidia cards when they ship out(assuming that's in the next 90 days)

[aplayaz2000]

Honestly just wait till August to see 4870X2 benchmarks, I know the 98X2 does pretty well staying with 88GT SLI.

[Viper98]

Honestly just wait till August to see 4870X2 benchmarks, I know the 98X2 does pretty well staying with 88GT SLI.

there's already plenty of 4870x2 benches out there from previews....... how do you think the retail card will be any different?

[aplayaz2000]

Well if you can get 2 98X2 for the price of 1 4870X2 and since it does better in some benchmarks I guess it would be a good buy. Its up to you.

[terrybear]

9800GX2 doesn't preform as good as 4870x2 from the benchs I've seen so far.

why ya think there selling them for cheap ?? cause there gonna be stagnet for sales soon for them :D

[Viper98]

9800GX2 doesn't preform as good as 4870x2 from the benchs I've seen so far.

why ya think there selling them for cheap ?? cause there gonna be stagnet for sales soon for them :D

it seems to depend what you want to play
games nvidia typically does better in the 9800 looks better.......... and vice versa

like CoD4 and Crysis are won by 9800................. Source and Age of Conan won by ATI


I think for me this is gonna come down to a decision of getting the 4870x2 vs getting the 9800gx2 and trading up to nvidia's next big card when it comes out

[torseller07]

there's already plenty of 4870x2 benches out there from previews....... how do you think the retail card will be any different?

Of course it will be different. Driver development controls the tradeoff between correctiveness and performance. Right now, quality of Catalyst is going to hell (sorry but I couldn't think of a better word). To make things worse, AMD apparently is not repressively testing the new driver for products that are being released earlier this year.

My advise for purchasing AMD products for now is hold till they produce a set of driver that you are happy with. They maybe able to show good results on paper, but the variation in driver quality these days are so great that, one would question why AMD even bother having monthly driver release and if there are any merits in this development process.

[Viper98]

Of course it will be different. Driver development controls the tradeoff between correctiveness and performance. Right now, quality of Catalyst is going to hell (sorry but I couldn't think of a better word). To make things worse, AMD apparently is not repressively testing the new driver for products that are being released earlier this year.

My advise for purchasing AMD products for now is hold till they produce a set of driver that you are happy with. They maybe able to show good results on paper, but the variation in driver quality these days are so great that, one would question why AMD even bother having monthly driver release and if there are any merits in this development process.



yes drivers problems have been a trademark of ati for sometime now and is the reason I switch from ATI exclusively to nvidia when the 7800gtx came out

[Silver Bullet]

I think there is no doubt the 4870 x2 is the faster solution .. remember the GX2 is just two 8800GT's in SLI (which can be had for about $200). But we already know the 4870 x2 is going to be around $550, so unless you're willing to lay down the big bucks .. the 9800GX2 is probably right for you.

[Viper98]

I think there is no doubt the 4870 x2 is the faster solution .. remember the GX2 is just two 8800GT's in SLI (which can be had for about $200). But we already know the 4870 x2 is going to be around $550, so unless you're willing to lay down the big bucks .. the 9800GX2 is probably right for you.

isn't the 9800gx2 2 9800gtxs in SLI?

edit: money really isn't an object....... I spent $800 on the 7950 2 years ago :(

[aplayaz2000]

Hey guys whats wrong with the driver again?

[torseller07]

Hey guys whats wrong with the driver again?

Help yourself (http://forums.amd.com/game/categories.cfm?catid=279&forumid=11).

[Majoram]

there's already plenty of 4870x2 benches out there from previews....... how do you think the retail card will be any different?

The drivers used in the Previews were all beta and not final. They even had some things disabled like fan control/cooling based on temp.

Help yourself (http://forums.amd.com/game/categories.cfm?catid=279&forumid=11).

I'll give you that ATI doesn't release drivers as often and SLI is better than Crossfire, I don't see how the numerous problems posted in the ATI forums prove that ATI drivers is more unstable?
Just as easily I can say nVidia sucks too (Help yourself.).

To Viper98:

Disclaimer: I'm not an ATI fanboi. My last card was an 8800 Ultra. I just go with whomever is best.

I agree with aplayaz2000, wait and see. The 7800gtx was relatively speaking, a long time ago. ATI has improved since then.

Here's a little Pro/Con list for you to consider:

ATI Pros:
- Better Vista drivers (if you use Vista).
- 4870 prices have been dropping since launch.
nVidia is not going to slack off.
Thus I don't think the 4870x2 will necessarily release at $500
- 4870x2 has 2GB RAM. If you play at res 1900x1200 or higher, definitely go ATI.
- Your P5WDH Deluxe (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=1198&l1=3&l2=11&l3=248) supports CrossFire
- You said "Money is not an object" for this decision :cheesygri

ATI Cons:
- 4870x2 has 2GB RAM. You may need to go 64 bit if you have more than 2GB System RAM.
- Crossfire isn't as good as SLI
- Slower to catch up with driver updates.


nVidia Pros:
- SLI is better than Crossfire
- Faster driver updates
- Cheaper at this time for the 9800gx2

nVidia Cons:
- Your Mobo doesn't support SLI
- nVidia is just going to be re-releasing the shrunk down and clocked up versions of their same cards. Power & heat may be a problem.
- Not so good Vista drivers

isn't the 9800gx2 2 9800gtxs in SLI?
edit: money really isn't an object....... I spent $800 on the 7950 2 years ago :(

No the 9800GX2 is like two GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB in SLI.
It is:
- Same chip as GeForce 8800 GTS (Codename: G92).
- G92 is just a shrunk down G80
- Same Core clock speeds as 8800 GT / Slower than 8800 GTS
- Faster Memory clock than 8800 GTS
See here (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ3NSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0) for more info.

yes drivers problems have been a trademark of ati for sometime now and is the reason I switch from ATI exclusively to nvidia when the 7800gtx came out

That was a long time ago in video card history. I say wait for official reviews.

I think for me this is gonna come down to a decision of getting the 4870x2 vs getting the 9800gx2 and trading up to nvidia's next big card when it comes out

Personally I think you should wait. Right now the 9800gx2 price is awesome but it won't go up and it's older architecture. So just wait until next Tuesday and see the full 4870x2 benchmarks.

Plus think about it. The 9800gx2 price drops just before the 4870x2 release to tempt you to buy before you see the ATI card. How much do you think the GX280 or 9800GX2 cards will drop if the 4870x2 is even better??
There is even the possibility of early 4870x2 drops because of current nVidia pricing.

Even if the 4870x2 sucks just a little, I doubt the GX280 prices will go back up. And if money is not a problem and you really don't want ATI, why not look at the GX280??

edit: never mind buying 2 9800gx2s.. I'll stick with my P5WDH Deluxe and then I can always use evga's step up to get the new nvidia cards when they ship out(assuming that's in the next 90 days)

Why 2 9800gx2s? From ASUS site, your board is Crossfire and not SLI???
Also it's a bit a of gamble to depend on nVidia to release a solution in 3 months and to hope that eVGA will allow you to trade up to it from a GX2. From what I remember they severely limit what you can choose.

[Silver Bullet]

edit: never mind buying 2 9800gx2s.. I'll stick with my P5WDH Deluxe and then I can always use evga's step up to get the new nvidia cards when they ship out(assuming that's in the next 90 days)

You can't run SLI (2 x 9800GX2s) on a intel chipset board ... you'll need an Nv as based board (780i or 790i)

[Viper98]

You can't run SLI (2 x 9800GX2s) on a intel chipset board ... you'll need an Nv as based board (780i or 790i)


evga makes a 780i board for intel that supports tri sli

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27595&vpn=132%2DCK%2DNF78%2DA1&manufacture=eVGA

[terrybear]

As far as I remember/see nvidia does NOT update there drivers as much as ati/amd does .... ALSO Tri SLI doesn't work AND 790i has major issues.

ALSO whomever said sli scales better then crossfire is wrong ...

[torseller07]

I have been following Catalyst driver for the last 4-5 months. It gets worse and worse. Look at 8.6, overlay is broken by default and no AGP support as well. What kind of driver support is this? Even they put an Intern on the job to watch porn on one of their products, they would have caught this kind of bugs before releasing. 8.7? Broken compatibility, BSOD on some recent products (like 780G, which was released this year), driver stop responding and so on. A few days later, 8.8 beta surfaced. Why doesn't AMD just pull their act together before releasing into the public? If they release 12 times a year but none of the release delivers what customers want, what's the point?

Without a better word, I can only say it is sloppiness on AMD's Catalyst development team. You may have seen the better side of them in the past. But from what I have observed in the last few months, their "trademark" has been making a return.

I am not saying (and never said) nVidia is not without issue. The point is, AMD Catalyst support has really gone to hell recently. While HD 4800 series looks good on paper, I wouldn't recommend a purchase for now until their driver support has improved. Once they do, you would be able to make a more educated decision.

[awestruck]

Get the 9800GX2 cause PhsyX drivers are coming out on the 12th.

[Viper98]

Get the 9800GX2 cause PhsyX drivers are coming out on the 12th.

do any worthwhile games even support physx

[awestruck]

do any worthwhile games even support physx

There are not many games out right now that support PhysX due to the high price of the card you had to buy to get things running. Nvidia acquired Ageia back in Feb and they are going to be releasing drivers that add PhysX support to their video cards - 8 series and up. The future of games supporting PhysX tech looks much brighter now, since obviously there are tons of people who own 8-series and up cards. As a result, you will probably see more pc games taking advantage of this. Off the top of my head, the games out right now that have Physx support are UT3, GRAW2, Cellfactor, and Warmonger. The following are a list of upcoming games that will have PhysX support. Mirror's Edge and Bionic Commando are two games that you should look out for.

# Aliens: Colonial Marines
# Backbreaker
# Bionic Commando
# Borderlands
# Cryostasis
# Empire: Total War
# Mirror’s Edge
# MKZ
# Nurien

And probably more games as time goes on.

So in the end, I'd say get the 9800GX2. Having PhysX support right out the box is well worth the price of admission.

[B0000rt]

I'll give you that ATI doesn't release drivers as often and SLI is better than Crossfire, I don't see how the numerous problems posted in the ATI forums prove that ATI drivers is more unstable?
Just as easily I can say here ("]nVidia sucks too[/URL].Wow, you're the first person in history that has said SLI is better than Crossfire.

ATI Cons:
- 4870x2 has 2GB RAM. You may need to go 64 bit if you have more than 2GB System RAM.
- Crossfire isn't as good as SLI
- Slower to catch up with driver updates. Huh? The motherboard and OS have DMA access to Video memory? HuH??


nVidia Pros:
- SLI is better than Crossfire
- Faster driver updates
- Cheaper at this time for the 9800gx2
Yes, the 9800GX2 was something like <$300 a couple weeks ago at Newegg after MIR.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130338&ATT=14-130-338&CMP=AFC-C8Junction

No the 9800GX2 is like two GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB in SLI.
It is:
- Same chip as GeForce 8800 GTS (Codename: G92).
- G92 is just a shrunk down G80
- Same Core clock speeds as 8800 GT / Slower than 8800 GTS
- Faster Memory clock than 8800 GTS
See [URL="http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ3NSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0) for more info. No..The 9800GX2 IS two 9800GT in SLI.
http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019222&cid=999.243.390

[Silver Bullet]

B0000rt thanks for clearing that all up .. Majoram you really need to do your research before posting.

[Viper98]

Wow, you're the first person in history that has said SLI is better than Crossfire.


up until the 3870 SLI has always massacred crossfire in scaling performance :|

[B0000rt]

Re: PhysX, isn't Nvidia working with some people getting it to work on ATi cards?

http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-38137-135.html
http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-38283-135.html

[awestruck]

I think ATI is going the Havok route.

[terrybear]

phyx is to be supported thru 3rd party driver for ati cards & as I read earlier today Havoc will not be implimented on ati cards till the need to do so is there.

[aplayaz2000]

News flash, 4870X2 > 9800X2 in most game but Crysis.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17187.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17188.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17189.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17190.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17141.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17142.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17137.png

[Riflem@n]

News flash, 4870X2 > 9800X2 in most game but Crysis.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17187.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17188.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17189.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/r700_071308223626/17190.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17141.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17142.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17137.png

well for the price, it better be.

[terrybear]

All I can say is I play Grid with everything on high @ 1920x1200 with my 3870 oc'ed 800/2.4 ghz & the games just amazingly beautiful. I couldn't imagine how much more sicker it would be on a 4870 let alone a 4870X2 !! :cheesygri

[aplayaz2000]

AA goes crazy on FPS, wow that 98X2 for GRID is unbelievable.