University of Toronto - Pharmacy

[KTKool]

Hi, I'm going to be a first year student at U of T St. George, and I was wondering if anyone had/tried/trying to get a degree in Pharmacy. I'm lost and worried about what to do.

[wqzmbshz]

write the entrance exam. 200 acceptantce within 3000+ applicants. this yr all of my friends didnt get in, although with brilliant GPAs..Pharmacy is as competitive as med school, so have back up plans, as most applicants dont get in

[licious]

I did pharmacy! I don't think it was as competitive when I was applying though. It's probably more challenging to get in these days, but definitely not impossible. There is also a new faculty of pharmacy at Waterloo, so that's always an option.

If you are only looking for admissions info, you can read all about it here:
http://www.pharmacy.utoronto.ca/undergrad/admis/index.jsp

Oh, and if you don't get in after your first year of university, just try again the following year. I think by that time they will have converted to the Pharm.d, so that's a pretty sweet bonus. :)

[KTKool]

I hope it wasn't as competitive when I try out like you licious. wqzmbshz, you can't be serious.. 3000+ applicants... I'm worried now T____T. What's the entrance exam like. and I keep read you need Grade 12 physics or university physics. During my time in high school, we didn't cover every topic. We only did dynamics, energy, and touched upon light and waves. Should I really take university level physics?

[xeodragon]

I hope it wasn't as competitive when I try out like you licious. wqzmbshz, you can't be serious.. 3000+ applicants... I'm worried now T____T. What's the entrance exam like. and I keep read you need Grade 12 physics or university physics. During my time in high school, we didn't cover every topic. We only did dynamics, energy, and touched upon light and waves. Should I really take university level physics?

That's bogus information, it definitely wasn't 3000 applicants. Several applicants I know have confirmed that there were 240 spots out of 1600 applicants for this year's cycle.

[licious]

Copied and pasted this:
"57. How many applications are expected and how many students are accepted each year?

Just over 1950 applications were received for the 2007 admission cycle. Although there is no way of accurately predicting applicant numbers, we expect interest to remain high in this popular program. In recent years the Faculty has gradually increased enrolment and has doubled the intake from 120 admits in 1994 to 240 admits in 2005. Future enrolment numbers for Year 1 of the BScPhm program will remain at 240."

Anyways, I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers. In previous years, I think a lot of students had trouble with the UTPAT, but for the upcoming cycle, you only have to write the the PCAT. I personally haven't done the PCAT, but I have seen sample questions and it seems really basic. If you are really interested, you may want to start prepping now.

[xeodragon]

Copied and pasted this:
"57. How many applications are expected and how many students are accepted each year?

Just over 1950 applications were received for the 2007 admission cycle. Although there is no way of accurately predicting applicant numbers, we expect interest to remain high in this popular program. In recent years the Faculty has gradually increased enrolment and has doubled the intake from 120 admits in 1994 to 240 admits in 2005. Future enrolment numbers for Year 1 of the BScPhm program will remain at 240."

Anyways, I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers. In previous years, I think a lot of students had trouble with the UTPAT, but for the upcoming cycle, you only have to write the the PCAT. I personally haven't done the PCAT, but I have seen sample questions and it seems really basic. If you are really interested, you may want to start prepping now.

Yup, definitely not 3000+ applicants. My information is from the 2008 admission cycle just to note.

[brucedlx]

Copied and pasted this:
"57. How many applications are expected and how many students are accepted each year?

Just over 1950 applications were received for the 2007 admission cycle. Although there is no way of accurately predicting applicant numbers, we expect interest to remain high in this popular program. In recent years the Faculty has gradually increased enrolment and has doubled the intake from 120 admits in 1994 to 240 admits in 2005. Future enrolment numbers for Year 1 of the BScPhm program will remain at 240."

Anyways, I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers. In previous years, I think a lot of students had trouble with the UTPAT, but for the upcoming cycle, you only have to write the the PCAT. I personally haven't done the PCAT, but I have seen sample questions and it seems really basic. If you are really interested, you may want to start prepping now.

Heh, bogus again. The UTPAT is a joke of a test (1 part IQ Test questions, 2 parts personality test/philosophy). There is no way to study. The best you could do was maybe take some online IQ tests.

The PCAT on the other hand has real scientific info and is more like the MCAT/DAT and is much more difficult.

As far as applicants, 240/~2000 is about correct.

To try and compare getting into pharmacy vs. getting into medicine is ridiculous, there is no way it is as hard to get into pharmacy. Pharmacy IS the backup plan when you realize that you're not cut out for medicine.

Anyone who hypes up pharmacy to be super-fantastic is probably taking it themselves and it makes them feel good thinking they are a part of the upper echelon of society.

The reality is that it isn't that hard to get in as people say. Keep trying every year you will get it eventually, unlike medecine.

[KTKool]

okay, after some research, I found out I would be taking PCAT. So, PCAT is really that hard? I don't know what MCAT/DAT is. Does anyone know or remember some PCAT questions. Are they like a uni-level test or exam? or toned down/higher?

[xeodragon]

Heh, bogus again. The UTPAT is a joke of a test (1 part IQ Test questions, 2 parts personality test/philosophy). There is no way to study. The best you could do was maybe take some online IQ tests.

The PCAT on the other hand has real scientific info and is more like the MCAT/DAT and is much more difficult.

As far as applicants, 240/~2000 is about correct.

To try and compare getting into pharmacy vs. getting into medicine is ridiculous, there is no way it is as hard to get into pharmacy. Pharmacy IS the backup plan when you realize that you're not cut out for medicine.

Anyone who hypes up pharmacy to be super-fantastic is probably taking it themselves and it makes them feel good thinking they are a part of the upper echelon of society.

The reality is that it isn't that hard to get in as people say. Keep trying every year you will get it eventually, unlike medecine.

I don't see how their information is bogus though? He/she is actually in or has completed the program itself. I believe that with the UTPAT to PCAT change, along with the addition of interviews, references, etc. there will be a more standardized and streamlined process for determining the ideal candidate.

I agree that medicine is harder to get into than pharmacy, but you should not down-play pharmacy as profession. There are many people who actually want to become pharmacists and not doctors for several reasons, some being the flexibility of the profession, different interests, as well as the hours, pay, etc. It is not a back-up plan to many people and it's disappointing to see that you believe it to be.

[xeodragon]

okay, after some research, I found out I would be taking PCAT. So, PCAT is really that hard? I don't know what MCAT/DAT is. Does anyone know or remember some PCAT questions. Are they like a uni-level test or exam? or toned down/higher?

You haven't done much research if all you found out was that you need the PCAT! Google it up!

[licious]

Heh, bogus again. The UTPAT is a joke of a test (1 part IQ Test questions, 2 parts personality test/philosophy). There is no way to study. The best you could do was maybe take some online IQ tests.

The PCAT on the other hand has real scientific info and is more like the MCAT/DAT and is much more difficult.

As far as applicants, 240/~2000 is about correct.

To try and compare getting into pharmacy vs. getting into medicine is ridiculous, there is no way it is as hard to get into pharmacy. Pharmacy IS the backup plan when you realize that you're not cut out for medicine.

Anyone who hypes up pharmacy to be super-fantastic is probably taking it themselves and it makes them feel good thinking they are a part of the upper echelon of society.

The reality is that it isn't that hard to get in as people say. Keep trying every year you will get it eventually, unlike medecine.

Umm… okay, wow, someone has a major chip on their shoulder. Given your extensive knowledge of the UTPAT, I take it you have taken the test multiple times, but never gotten into pharmacy… am I right?

What I'd meant in my earlier post was that a lot of students have trouble with the UTPAT because, like you said, there is no way to study for it. With the PCAT, as long as you know your basic sciences, you should be fine.

Anyways, I wasn’t the one who compared medicine to pharmacy, nor do I have any desire to be considered as part of the “upper echelon of society.” If anything, I was the one who said that it isn’t that hard to get into pharmacy. My boyfriend is in med school and I have nothing but respect for doctors, but I know that I would never want to be in their shoes. Just because you have some sort of strange obsession with medicine, it doesn’t mean everyone else does :)

[licious]

okay, after some research, I found out I would be taking PCAT. So, PCAT is really that hard? I don't know what MCAT/DAT is. Does anyone know or remember some PCAT questions. Are they like a uni-level test or exam? or toned down/higher?

Just google "PCAT sample questions" and I'm sure you'll find a ton...I alos remember seeing a lot of PCAT books at Chapters as well if you want to prep.

[licious]

I don't see how their information is bogus though? He/she has actually in or have completed the program itself. I believe that with the UTPAT to PCAT change, along with the addition of interviews, references, etc. there will be a more standardized and streamlined process for determining the ideal candidate.

I agree that medicine is harder to get into than pharmacy, but you should not down-play pharmacy as profession. There are many people who actually want to become pharmacists and not doctors for several reasons, some being the flexibility of the profession, different interests, as well as the hours, pay, etc. It is not a back-up plan to many people and it's disappointing to see that you believe it to be.

Thank you :) At least there's one sane person around here...

[xeodragon]

Thank you :) At least there's one sane person around here...

No problem. To me, you did nothing wrong so I'm not sure why he started off like that.

[brucedlx]

1. Getting in is easy(er than medicine).

2. Pharmacists care TOO much about their image

3. Doctor > Pharmacist but it takes too much effort, from getting in to doing the job.

1 and 2 are facts, 3 could be considered an opinion.

[xeodragon]

1. Getting in is easy(er than medicine).

2. Pharmacists care TOO much about their image

3. Doctor > Pharmacist but it takes too much effort, from getting in to doing the job.

1 and 2 are facts, 3 could be considered an opinion.

You should be more careful with that you say. Pharmacy is easier to get into than medicine, but many people still don't get into either because of their stats, personality, and qualities. This doesn't make pharmacy easy to get into. Like mentioned before UofT accepts 240/1600 applicants so I wouldn't consider it "easy" by any means. You still have to work hard for what you want to do.

How do pharmacists care too much about their image :confused:? And by number 3 do you mean that you prefer to be a doctor rather than a pharmacist? If so, I have no problem with that as one's profession is based on their preference.

[whatsinaname]

Do you need to know physics for the PCAT? I don't have any high school physics, I think I should do the online course at TDSB.

[divx]

How do pharmacists manage to read all doctor's hand writings? Some doctor have crazy hand writings.

[DSS]

if you don't get in UofT or UW, apply out of the province or out of the country.

I'm in England right now doing Pharmacy.

[ritsbits]

How do pharmacists manage to read all doctor's hand writings? Some doctor have crazy hand writings.

practice, familiarity with drug names/short forms of names, appropriateness of drug to disease condition, dosage availability with drug, to name a few :)

tbh though, some writing is just so illegible that you have to call/page the MD directly lol

I am thankful for those who use preprinted orders/computerized entry, or those who simply remembered all those printing/block letter lessons from primary school :lol:

[licious]

if you don't get in UofT or UW, apply out of the province or out of the country.

I'm in England right now doing Pharmacy.

Wow, good for you! It takes a lot of determination to go all the way to England to do pharmacy. May I ask why you chose the UK over the US?

[help_questions]

what are the prerequisites for this program? is it a master's program....

any link from the university about this program?

[ritsbits]

what are the prerequisites for this program? is it a master's program....

any link from the university about this program?

no, its not a masters program, its a second entry program much like medicine. prereqs and additional information can be found at the faculty's website http://pharmacy.utoronto.ca

[chocho]

usually people who ask really basic questions about the faculty they want to apply to don't get in, passing the entrance exam will be a lot harder than doing some simple research about the profession and its admission process (what is required and so on.) start with UT's pharmacy website!

it hurts me to see so many pharmacy students applying to med school each year though

[salabanzi]

1. Getting in is easy(er than medicine).

2. Pharmacists care TOO much about their image

3. Doctor > Pharmacist but it takes too much effort, from getting in to doing the job.

1 and 2 are facts, 3 could be considered an opinion.

Where the hell did you get this idea?

[xeodragon]

Where the hell did you get this idea?

Exactly what I was thinking.

usually people who ask really basic questions about the faculty they want to apply to don't get in, passing the entrance exam will be a lot harder than doing some simple research about the profession and its admission process (what is required and so on.) start with UT's pharmacy website!

it hurts me to see so many pharmacy students applying to med school each year though

I, too, am surprised people how many people ask the simplest and most basic of questions, all of which can be easily found by doing a tiny bit of research. It sounds like they have no idea what they're asking or talking about.

I didn't know many pharmacy students applied to med school. Could you elaborate?

[licious]

I didn't know many pharmacy students applied to med school. Could you elaborate?

There were a few in my class who applied to med school after first or second year. Usually after third year, people feel like they have done most of the work, so they might as well finish. I think we lost a few people, but the vast majority end up staying in pharmacy.

I personally think that people should try for med if that's what they really want, even if they did initially take a pharmacy spot away from someone who may have actually wanted to become a pharmacist.

[xeodragon]

There were a few in my class who applied to med school after first or second year. Usually after third year, people feel like they have done most of the work, so they might as well finish. I think we lost a few people, but the vast majority end up staying in pharmacy.

I personally think that people should try for med if that's what they really want, even if they did initially take a pharmacy spot away from someone who may have actually wanted to become a pharmacist.

Oh I see, how many would you say were interested in med from your class? I second the notion of doing what you really want, but I'm on the fence about the "pharmacy to medicine" students. Like you said, the med student is taking a spot away from the pharmacy student (who wants to pursue that profession rather than use it as a transition stage to med) but then again, the med student is may have been more qualified and the knowledge gained from the pharmacy curriculum may help them become a better health-care practitioner. It's a tough issue to think about.

[brucedlx]

Where the hell did you get this idea?

There is an entire class in which they teach you about how pharmacists are "PROFESSIONALS" and not just "pill counters".

They can teach you whatever they want but it won't change the way that the public sees pharmacists.



it hurts me to see so many pharmacy students applying to med school each year though

It's the truth

[DeltasInTheSky]

There is an entire class in which they teach you about how pharmacists are "PROFESSIONALS" and not just "pill counters".

They can teach you whatever they want but it won't change the way that the public sees pharmacists.




It's the truth

Yeah, so? So based on one course, you can draw that conclusion. The course is probably ethics for the profession of pharmacy, I think you're blowing the whole thing out of proportion.

[xeodragon]

There is an entire class in which they teach you about how pharmacists are "PROFESSIONALS" and not just "pill counters".

They can teach you whatever they want but it won't change the way that the public sees pharmacists.


You make no sense and it's sad that you think that way. You just throw out random things that you hear from your friends into your so-called "argument". Pharmacists are health-care professionals and are an integral part of our health-care system. From what I know and have read, the profession is moving more towards a team-oriented approach, along with more care directed towards the patient (i.e. providing more counseling). Pharmacists have consistently ranked near the top as some of the most trusted health-care professionals in the field, along with nurses and veterinarians. In any case, I don't see how the public's perception of pharmacists makes pharmacists obsessed with their image. What is the name of the course you are referring to? Again, you are obviously providing bullish information that you hear from others. Those courses are found in many other health professions and are there to reinforce the respective roles and not to bolster any egos nor degrade those of others. It's a shame that you form your opinion based on what you hear and "think" you know and not actually what is true. You are ignorant in this regard.

[DeltasInTheSky]

Here's a little aside. I was at Shopper's Drug Mart, and a floor-worker asked if I needed help. I said yeah, which product do you recommend for exfoliating. She said she didn't know, and told me she was going to get the Pharmacist. And she did, and the Pharmacist helped me. I never knew they actually did that..

[xeodragon]

Here's a little aside. I was at Shopper's Drug Mart, and a floor-worker asked if I needed help. I said yeah, which product do you recommend for exfoliating. She said she didn't know, and told me she was going to get the Pharmacist. And she did, and the Pharmacist helped me. I never knew they actually did that..

Many people don't realize how important pharmacists are and what they can do for you, unless they actually go to a pharmacy and talk to them. I'm glad to know that you had a good experience with them as I too have found them to be great help in regards to health and medication-related topics.

[alex_chung_lee]

There is an entire class in which they teach you about how pharmacists are "PROFESSIONALS" and not just "pill counters".

They can teach you whatever they want but it won't change the way that the public sees pharmacists.




It's the truth

I hope you never get into any health-care professional programs.....

Your thinking just kills the idea of inter-professional network.......

[ritsbits]

...They can teach you whatever they want but it won't change the way that the public sees pharmacists.

It's the truth

I agree with the fact that there are some people who see pharmacists as pill counters; unfortunately some of the pharmacists' advocacy groups (i.e. OPA in Ontario) do horrible jobs of marketing the abilities and skills that pharmacists provide. Nursing is a good example of good marketing, something that pharmacy needs desperately to change their image.

Nevertheless, go shadow one in any hospital, and you will begin to realize that the image begins to change very dramatically... pharmacists can finally shy away from pill counting and provide the cognitive services they were trained for there. I would like to also point out that one of their duties is to check the appropriateness of the MD's ordered pharmaceutical therapy; it is not uncommon for pharmacy to page doctors for order changes.

If you go into a community hospital and read some of the documentation/orders, you'll see that pharmacists provide so many more cognitive services than most people realize. For example, the scarborough grace hospital's anticoagulation clinic has been quite successful (pharmacists dosing and ordering labs for outpatients); given the difficulty of "bleeding" patients (keeping their INR within narrow ranges) with labs every 2 weeks (as opposed to daily with inpatients), it can prove to be more than most can handle.

There is an entire class in which they teach you about how pharmacists are "PROFESSIONALS" and not just "pill counters".

Yes there is a course like that in first year. First year pharmacy is simply about orienting froshies to the profession of pharmacy, what pharmacists do, and basic counseling techniques. This is not much different from other professional schools.

Addressing the issue of pill counting in community, if pharmacists were to simply play that role, then you would begin to notice the skewing of medication "control" between doctors and patients. Look at places where doctors prescribe and dispense regularly (sans pharmacist cognitive services, or with little involvement therein) like HK; needless medications are often prescribed without a valid therapeutical reason. There are many research papers done that prove the value and worth of pharmacists in our healthcare system; perhaps it would befit you to read some of these and learn about some of the roles they play. The reason why they appear like pill counters in community pharmacies is because of "head office" pushing for high script count.

I think it would be interesting for you to sneak into one of the therapeutics classes in third or forth year sometime (i.e. PHM321) near december after the classes start going... if you're still entrenched in your pill counting ideas afterwards, there's nothing one can do to lift your invalid prejudice.