What can we do? Our tenants aren't moving out of our home and not paying the bills

[trixstar]

We have a home downtown and we let it for rent to a family for a year. They moved in last August and signed a 1 year contract to stay there. We also let them know many months ahead of time that we will be taking back the house. In the rent contract, we included that they must pay for all of the bills, but we called earlier and they are telling us that they will not pay the bills for last month's usage if we ask them to leave the home. We will be going downtown tomorrow to demand the bills be paid and move out all of their belongings. Is this legal? Do we have the right to remove all of their belongings since the rent contract has been expired and they are unwilling to pay for the due bills?

[MrWizard]

All depends on what is stated in the contract.

Does it state a specific date on which they are required to be out of the house?
Does the contract state that they will be responsible for all bills while they are tenants in the house?

[trixstar]

All depends on what is stated in the contract.

Does it state a specific date on which they are required to be out of the house?
Does the contract state that they will be responsible for all bills while they are tenants in the house?

yes it does state that they will be required to leave after the x period of time and states that all utitilies that are used by the tenants must be paid monthly. They did not pay the bills 4 days ago.

[i have a cisco switch]

You should have given them an LTB notice and filed an application at the LTB office.

DO NOT MOVE THEIR BELONGINGS OR ENTER THEIR LIVING SPACE, IT IS ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

www.ltb.gov.on.ca

[licious]

Well, I was always under the impression that you can't force tenants out just because their lease has ended, as the contract automatically converts to a month by month tenancy at that point. However, I have no idea what happens if the lease actually provides a date by which they are supposed to leave. The law may very well be on your side in this case, but it's generally not a good idea to start moving someone out without their consent. I would get some advice from a professional before taking matters into my own hands.

[Whitedart]

yes it does state that they will be required to leave after the x period of time and states that all utitilies that are used by the tenants must be paid monthly. They did not pay the bills 4 days ago.

If the lease expires, then then go month to month, but still require a proper eviction notice of 60 days to leave. If you have not provided them written notice to leave, they do not have to leave.

http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Key_Information/STEL02_111483.html

Can a tenant be evicted if the landlord wants to use the unit themselves?

Yes, a tenant can be evicted if a landlord "in good faith" requires the unit for:

* their own use,
* the use of an immediate family member, or
* the use of a person who will provide care services to the landlord or a member of the landlord’s immediate family, if the person who will be receiving the care services lives in the same building or complex.

Once the landlord gives the tenant a notice terminating the tenancy for this reason, they can apply to the Board for an order evicting the tenant. However, a tenant can only be evicted at the end of their tenancy and only if the Board issues an eviction order.

[Nikita]

You should have given them an LTB notice and filed an application at the LTB office.

DO NOT MOVE THEIR BELONGINGS OR ENTER THEIR LIVING SPACE, IT IS ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

www.ltb.gov.on.ca

Absolutely! You can never put someone out of their rented residence without a court order. Never.

[trixstar]

Absolutely! You can never put someone out of their rented residence without a court order. Never.

Okay, since my dad was getting really angry and wanted to move their belongings. In this case, we'll see how things go. We did give them over 60 days written notice.

[at1212b]

Google 'toronto landlord tenant act' and it should have alot of information there regarding your situation.

Hopefully you guys collected first and last months rent.

[pupazzo]

Lol at people who rent houses and are clueless on the legislation. Have fun with the squatters hahaha

[imoo2u]

Why does you as the landlord worry about the bills of the tenants? Come on!! the bills are under the names of the tenants and you are not liable unless you co-sign. When you take possession of the hse, just call all the utilities (whatever service providers) that the previous 'owners'/tenants have moved and that you are informing them to put new billings to you only from that date of new occupancy onwards. Just make sure you get all particulars (eg meter readings of gas, electricity, telephone disconnections, cable tv satellite etc) including the CSRs' names, titles, phone, dates and times etc to avoid unnecessary future wrong billings. Query the provisional rental board office for legal recourses to how to get back your hse from that tenant(s) with documentations. Guess you have to file some forms and get a baliff to serve to the tenant etc. That's what I did a long time ago.

[Whitedart]

We did give them over 60 days written notice.

But was it done on the proper forms, that can be filed at the Landlord & Tenant Board for an eviction order?

Form page
http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Forms/STEL02_111310.html

[dre145]

cant force a tenant out. without court order.
We were buying a house with 3 units. Got it done, the closing date went by and the tenant refused to move. They were offered similar even better apartments by the Owner (he owned 45 houses in toronto). But they refused. The tenant also had a young child but they finally got out after 3 months.

Owner tried to get us to take over with the tenant still living in the house. Lol we refused for obvious reasons.

But yea good luck evicting a tenant with a young child esp in the cold months of the year.

[custy]

Can the land lord recover rent premium from a tenant if he/she does not leave for 3 months but then leave after a court order? It would not be fair if the land lord has to lose money over squatters.

[1yellowdog]

Non payment is one of the few ways to get someone evicted in Ontario but it doesn't happen overnight. There is a process to follow and if you are really on top of it and file your paperwork as soon as you are allowed then it will take about 2 to 2.5 months to get them out. It's a long time to wait, very frustrating.

[Nikita]

Can the land lord recover rent premium from a tenant if he/she does not leave for 3 months but then leave after a court order? It would not be fair if the land lord has to lose money over squatters.

Well you can certainly get a court order for rent owing for all of the time they are in the residence....whether you're able to collect on it is another story.

[Rishi]

The posters who have said you must go to the LTB are correct.

CALL 416-645-8080 AND SPEAK TO A CSR.

They will listen to your situation and walk you through the process step by step. There are many technicalities you can get screwed on, do not rely on your own knowledge or the internet! The CSRs are very knowledgeable - I know, I'm a former LTB employee.

[nerdnik]

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer -- just letting you know what my experience was.

My parents own rental properties; I act as landlord on their behalf.

A couple of years ago, for whatever reason, one of their tenants was habitually late on her payments. She was dodgy -- she was on disability for some BS, and didn't hold a job. I knew this person well, so when I say she shouldn't have been on disability, it's not me just being bitter about how "they" spend "my" tax money.

I documented every late payment with an N4 form, available from the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal.

Fast forward a year, and she isn't paying rent. At all. And get this -- she brought in some dude to rent the basement out and told him she was the landlord. So he was paying for virtually all of her rent, save $250. That's all this woman had to pay -- just $250 for a 2000 square foot house plus utilities! We did not condone this, but there was nothing we could legally do about it.

Anyway, so she's not paying rent now. I fill out the N4 form, serve it, she never pays. The tribunal date comes up. She arrives 45 minutes late, and to show that I am a good landlord, I agree to mediation. Actually, I spoke to the tenant on the phone the night prior and told her I'd agree to mediation and then spelled out EXACTLY what I was going to ask for, and what documentation I needed from her to support some of her crazy claims.

So in an effort to cut this looooooooong story down, we go to mediation, agree on stuff and by certain dates, and she never follows through. What I SHOULD have been entitled to, according to the mediation agreement was IMMEDATE EVICTION, but no. She appealed and we got another Tribunal date. She never shows up, so I win -- she is evicted. I start the eviction process with the Sherrif (at a $350 cost to my parents) and just before the Sheriff is to evict her, she disputes the ruling on a count of "I forgot the case was in court on that day" AND SHE GETS ANOTHER CHANCE!!

By month 10, I'm all the way at court level (not just Tribunal level), I've hired a paralegal at a cost of $1,000 and my parents are STILL not getting rent from this beeyotch. She's finally evicted. TEN MONTHS LATER!

Tenants have ALL the power. Landlords have nothing.

Despite all the BS, you MUST do things by the letter of the law or you'll get penalized heavily for 'abusing your power.' That means, you cannot enter a dwelling without written notice and only for certain things, and you certainly cannot start the eviction process (toss their crap, change the locks) until the proper paperwork has been filed. Even if the tenant just ups and leaves -- you'll still have to file to protect yourself.

I'm sorry for the super-long post -- just wanted to give you some insight. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM me.

Good luck!

[nano]

One of my best friends is a super/property manager. His boss preaches to him monthly "make sure you get the rent on the first of the month. If you don't get the rent assume they are leaving give them notice and get them out." If this goes on until winter good luck with getting them out. they could end up getting 6 months of free rent.

[gman]

Okay, since my dad was getting really angry and wanted to move their belongings. In this case, we'll see how things go. We did give them over 60 days written notice.

Well, if your dad does that, he can be in trouble if the tenant plays hard ball. Renting out is a risky business.

[tmpz]

My dad's been in similar situations... It'll take another month or so after you've submitted a request for them to leave. Once it's done, cops will come and make sure they leave, otherwise, they get arrested... Then you can finally move all their crap out...

[monty613]

And get this -- she brought in some dude to rent the basement out and told him she was the landlord. So he was paying for virtually all of her rent, save $250.

Are you sure she isn't an RFD'er? Wow!

I can't believe the stories in this thread. Call me a neanderthal, but if I owned a property and someone isn't paying me rent - I would threaten or harass them (verbally and/or physically) until they pay up or ship out. Court order? You're on MY property! GTFO!

[alv077]

Just wondering... isn't it possible to make their lives very hard in order to get them to leave willingly?

For example, subs pointed downwards blasting music randomly at night, make sure they are unable to use your appliances upstairs, park your cars in a way that boxes them in, start trying to collect rent at their place of business in front of everyone... that kinda stuff

[Angela V]

We have a home downtown and we let it for rent to a family for a year. They moved in last August and signed a 1 year contract to stay there. We also let them know many months ahead of time that we will be taking back the house. In the rent contract, we included that they must pay for all of the bills, but we called earlier and they are telling us that they will not pay the bills for last month's usage if we ask them to leave the home. We will be going downtown tomorrow to demand the bills be paid and move out all of their belongings. Is this legal? Do we have the right to remove all of their belongings since the rent contract has been expired and they are unwilling to pay for the due bills?

Did they pay their Last Month's rent? If they did maybe they are confused that the bills aren't covered in that? Check the contract for how it's worded. It could just be a mis understanding.

[ben_liu]

In all honestly, tenants like this will f* you over... Some lowlife A-Hole played us for a long period of time. We tried everything, had to wait for court date and finally it ended and cops throw their junk away from our house so we can sell our house and we ended up having to pay for the utility bills... actually here is the thread from a last year when this happened...

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412381

Good Luck!

[Bookpreviews]

cant force a tenant out. without court order.
We were buying a house with 3 units. Got it done, the closing date went by and the tenant refused to move. They were offered similar even better apartments by the Owner (he owned 45 houses in toronto). But they refused. The tenant also had a young child but they finally got out after 3 months.

Owner tried to get us to take over with the tenant still living in the house. Lol we refused for obvious reasons.

But yea good luck evicting a tenant with a young child esp in the cold months of the year.

Sounds kind of shady.
I had an ottawa company- Minto Homes to be specific try and sell my a house where there were still people renting.
I couldn't view the house as there were still people there and a cat in the window.
I declined that one because seriously- if someone if in a subsidized housing that is being converted to sold houses or units and they are not sure when the tenant is leaving...always a bad idea.

Hopefully you had an exact leaving date for your tennants and I know a lot of people that rent they just have verbal agreements for the utilities- so hopefully you did not do that...

I had to sublet a place for 6 weeks and when I signed the contract for living there- the person did not change over the bills as it was for 6 weeks, but I had an exact date to leave by, as the person was coming back to their apt on a specific date.

Anyways, good luck!

[Nikita]

My dad's been in similar situations... It'll take another month or so after you've submitted a request for them to leave. Once it's done, cops will come and make sure they leave, otherwise, they get arrested... Then you can finally move all their crap out...

It's not the police that enforce these orders, it's the sherrif. And no, the tenant does not get arrested for refusing to leave, they simply enter the premises with the L/L's key, or break the lock if necessary, physically remove you if necessary and change the locks.

[Frankie3s]

Reading threads like this makes me appreciate that both my parents and I got out of renting a long time ago. Of course everyone had impeccable references (thanks to the other landlords trying to get these bums out) and the first check would usually clear.

Soon after the nightmares would begin. Bad checks, damages, theft (our fridge was stolen by one of the tenants), backyard torn up. Good riddens you ba$tards!

[Kranberry]

My dad had a similar story with his townhouse that he was renting. It is difficult if the renter knows the games that can be played and ways to extend the court dates, etc.

It also reminds me of this movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100318/

[Kenneth]

I rent out a couple of houses next to Humber College. Students are usually known to be tough people to rent to, but very profitable for the 8 months of the year.

What I do is make them pay all the utilities with the exception of water, which I include in the rent and stipulate it will be shut off at the end of lease termination. Water usage is pretty stable, unlike hydro and gas since there isn't too many ways to waste water.

I've only had to shut off the water once (I doubt it's legal either), but it worked since they left 2 days later smelling something fierce.

[nerdnik]

Are you sure she isn't an RFD'er? Wow!

I can't believe the stories in this thread. Call me a neanderthal, but if I owned a property and someone isn't paying me rent - I would threaten or harass them (verbally and/or physically) until they pay up or ship out. Court order? You're on MY property! GTFO!

Like I said, tenants have ALL the rights and all the power. This woman knew it, and so when my mom would call her and leave messages on her answering machine, she tried to sue my mom for harassment. COME ON! Like my mom didn't have a reason to be pissed!

After the eviction, I was going through the house (which words cannot even begin to explain the neglect and disarray it was in) and I found faxes to her lawyer trying to sue me and my mom for $250,000 for verbal harassment. Meanwhile, this woman had no job, was collecting disability and welfare (again, I found paperwork of this). Just ridiculous!

With all of the treasures I found, I sent a 20-page fax to the welfare snitch people. They wouldn't tell me if she was finally booted from welfare but I can only assume. She was falsifying her taxes even -- she lied about how much rent she was paying AND she forged my late dad's signature -- and Revenue Canada wasn't even interested. Just ridiculous!! :mad:

[nerdnik]

Oh - and don't even bother trying to get the police involved. They don't like to get involved in these matters.

I actually caught my evicted tenants BREAKING IN TO THE GARAGE -- I got into the dude's car (so he couldn't drive away) and called the cops. I wanted to press charges because their **** was no longer theirs -- they were stealing. AND tresspassing. But the cops wouldn't allow me to do so.

Like I said, only with the court order was I able to go to the Sherrif's office and pay for forceful eviction. I also had to pay for a locksmith to come over while the Sherrif was still there.

It's just so ridiculous -- the law was not on my side for the nearly 2 years I had to deal with these people breaking in and vandalizing.

One time, one of the cops had to come after one of her many break-ins to take my statement. He mocked me and asked me why I wasted his time -- why not just get rid of the place. Nice.

[nerdnik]

I rent out a couple of houses next to Humber College. Students are usually known to be tough people to rent to, but very profitable for the 8 months of the year.

What I do is make them pay all the utilities with the exception of water, which I include in the rent and stipulate it will be shut off at the end of lease termination. Water usage is pretty stable, unlike hydro and gas since there isn't too many ways to waste water.

I've only had to shut off the water once (I doubt it's legal either), but it worked since they left 2 days later smelling something fierce.

It's illegal to shut off the water. I tried. While the tenant was using my water and not paying bills, the amount owing was added to my mother's income tax.

If you are ever in a predicament where, God forbid, your tenants won't leave, you are not allowed to turn off the water. You can get yourself into a LOT of legal trouble if you do. Water is deemed a necessity in Toronto.