Ghost Experience

[Silverhack]

Lately, I've been reading some Ghost Stories :|
I was wondering if anyone else had a ghost experience and would like to share it. IT would be interesting to read if it happened in Toronto :cheesygri

[BadDrafter]

Google "Shadow People" I've seen those buggers before.

[infinite.chaoz]

Casa Loma, the underground tunnel to the parking lot. We saw something opening and closing the door in front of us, and for sure it wasn't someone cuz we were the first group down there that morning and it probably wasn't the wind either cuz there was another door in front of that and it was closed.

[yuwing8]

Lately, I've been reading some Ghost Stories :|
I was wondering if anyone else had a ghost experience and would like to share it. IT would be interesting to read if it happened in Toronto :cheesygri

I never had any experience, but my friends have. I believe them since they're close friends.

P.S., RFD is not a place you bring up that kind of thing because most threads about these things are ridiculed and filled with smart ass comments :cheesygri just wanted to warn u. (note: I would bring this kind of discussion to another board that specializes in the paranormal/supernatural/ghost phenomenon.

[EbonyRose]

I never had any experience, but my friends have. I believe them since they're close friends.

P.S., RFD is not a place you bring up that kind of thing because most threads about these things are ridiculed and filled with smart ass comments :cheesygri just wanted to warn u. (note: I would bring this kind of discussion to another board that specializes in the paranormal/supernatural/ghost phenomenon.

Exactly why I'm not sharing anything. Had a total of three encounters with others to witness it- so I know I'm not going crazy. lol

[Uncle Cool]

No ghosts, but many cases of Deja Vu.

[MasterXan]

The Hsin Kuang Chinese restaurant in Chinatown is haunted

[Wiseman]

No ghosts, but many cases of Deja Vu.

It's a glitch in the matrix.

[comet]

It's a glitch in the matrix.

+1

[Uncle Cool]

It's a glitch in the matrix.

That's my theory...

[goJays]

its only a glitch if its followed by a glimpse of NEO or the smell of Morpheus' taint!!

[zfmduel]

I never had any experience, but my friends have. I believe them since they're close friends.

P.S., RFD is not a place you bring up that kind of thing because most threads about these things are ridiculed and filled with smart ass comments :cheesygri just wanted to warn u. (note: I would bring this kind of discussion to another board that specializes in the paranormal/supernatural/ghost phenomenon.

alot of smart ass comment arrite...... Ghost are just illusion to me. Never encounter and never will. But I have experienced some unexplainable phenomenons... like June 21&22 on Young...

[Nikita]

Never had a ghost experience but would like to, if for no other reason than to confirm my belief in the paranormal. Other than that, just cuz it seems like it would be such a cool experience!

[Uncle Cool]

Never had a ghost experience but would like to, if for no other reason than to confirm my belief in the paranormal. Other than that, just cuz it seems like it would be such a cool experience!

Exactly.

I will believe in a religion if any 'god' proves it's existence, to me personally.

I will believe aliens have visited Earth if they prove it to me, personally. (I do believe in life on other planets. I think it is impossible that Earth is the only planet with life in this galaxy, let alone the Universe.)

I will believe in anything paranormal if it's proven to me, personally. I won't take anyone else's word.

[sonic]

http://www.muddyyorktours.com/

:D
Had a few oija board (sp) experiences...but thats about it.

[Joanie]

bro saw my grandma the day she died. she apparently walked into the bathroom to say 'goodbye' (impossible since she was in a coma in the hospital). mom got a phone call a few min later to say she died in the morning. i was asleep. we were 9/10 years old at that time.

other instances, just felt 'odd' like i was being watched. was told after the fact that the place(s) was haunted.

other friends/family hv their own stories.

btw, i m a christian n i dont know if i believe in ghosts ... even after these 'personal' experiences. i just know i say a prayer 'to keep me protected' i.e 'please god, dont let me see dead people'.

[Tijuana]

Ghosts dont exist, plain and simple. You arent crazy if you see them. Your eyes and brain like to play tricks on you. If you really want to see a ghost, you will.

[king_george]

Ghosts dont exist, plain and simple. You arent crazy if you see them. Your eyes and brain like to play tricks on you. If you really want to see a ghost, you will.

/believer mode on

But you can't PROVE ghosts don't exist so they must be real! My <insert friend/relative/whatever here> saw one and I believe him/her!! We can't explain it so it must be a ghost! So there...

/believer mode off

If ghosties/spooks/goblins were so frickin' common, you'd think there would be at least one good photo/video of one. Those infantile ghost hunting shows might have a shred of evidence of they were real. OOOO it's cold in this room...must be a GHOST! Oh listen something in this 500 year old house creaked..it must be a GHOST! OOO look a magnetic field right beside this live electrical wire..it must be a GHOST! Complete idiocy pandering to the gullible.

Ghosties and bigfeets must hang out together, drink a few beers and have a good chuckle.

[AudiDude]

If ghosts exist, oh well. They don't bother me and I don't bother them. If they hang around my house, they'd better chip in for rent or out they go. I would not dedicate any time worrying about them because there is no benefit to knowing for sure. I have better things to do, like take a nap.

[king_george]

Forgot to add that I owned and lived in a 150 year old small-town farmhouse for about 6 years. According to town hall records I checked, at least 7 people died in the house including two children over the years.

I completely renovated the house and uncovered nothing weird (except for dozens of empty whisky bottles buried in the backyard - lotsa spirits there :)) and had exactly zero odd experiences in that house. Zip zero nada nuttin'. If there ever was a house that ghosts would be in, that was it.:lol:

I did find lots of cool things behind the walls, under the floors and under the dirt in the basement though, but no bodies or skeletons.:D

[molala]

I used to work in a country inn and spa east of toronto...can't mention name...but 20 mins east of coburg....at one of the corner of the inn...it's well known that it's haunted....even during the day...you can always hear someone walking up the stairs but in fact there was no one....and you can always see someone walking by the rooms from the door gap...but there was no one there....there's a window there but no trees that high outside...so it's for sure it's not the wind blowing the tree and made the shadow...and one of my coworker claimed that she always see a soldier and 2 kids hanging around there....it happened one time that there was an old lady who was a client who was crying to leave the inn in the middle of the night because she said 'something/one' have been bugging her all night and they have to send her to a motel nearby...

[NiMSo]

Any Toronto people been to Old Finch at night?...

[molala]

Any Toronto people been to Old Finch at night?...

years ago....many times during my teenage years...ok..i'm old! i never encounter anything from past visits...however..one time my friends went..and all the ones who drove (maybe 4 of them?!?) got into car accident within 2 weeks after that visit...

[danns]

I stumbled upon this site, http://www.torontoghosts.org/toronto.htm
Seems relevant to the topic.

[Captin Howdy]

Any Toronto people been to Old Finch at night?...

LOL my friends and I would use to go ghost hunting few years ago and this was our favorite spot! Never saw anything but we would always try to freak each other out.

I stumbled upon this site, http://www.torontoghosts.org/toronto.htm
Seems relevant to the topic.

I was just about to post that link, that site has a bunch of hunted sites in Toronto. I think they have a radio show as well that airs once a week.

[dmxlite]

Wasn't there another, longer, thread about this???

[toalan]

Any Toronto people been to Old Finch at night?...

A very good friend of mine and his bud were smoking weed up at old finch, they both saw a girl walk by their car while high. They both go out and the girl was gone.

Yes they were high, but that does not explain why they both saw them. My friend has never lied about anything, he is as honest as they come.

[strangeepiphany]

The Hsin Kuang Chinese restaurant in Chinatown is haunted

Is this the Bright Pearl now? My dad says he used to work there. He once told me that, at night, they would put the chairs up on the tables, but in the mornings, they would all be scattered on the floor. Don't know if it's true or if he was just kidding though.

[msklifesux]

omg guys.. more ppl should be discussing this :( i hate ghosts.. DAMN YOU GHOSTS!

[firechkn]

Any Toronto people been to Old Finch at night?...

Yes, I use to ride my bike home traveling along old Finch. One time it was getting dark, I had my ear phones on. About halfway home, I felt something brush the top of my head. It must of been a branch I though, but when I looked up the lowest branch was at least 20 ft in the air! I was spooked and hurried home!

I tried not to ride at night anymore :)

[mkerian]

I don't believe in ghosts, paranormal activity, or my grandmother saying goodbye when she's on her hospital bed. I don't believe in soothsaying or ouija boards either, or any of the like.

What I do believe is that there are dangerous doors that people play with all the time, and don't realize the implications of allowing certain ideas or actions into their lives.

[rehearser]

Casa Loma is haunted

[skeletor]

I hear the ghost of Kommander Kornflakes posts here late at night..

[mkerian]

I hear the ghost of Kommander Kornflakes posts here late at night..

He just posted above you.

[Silverhack]

Yes, I use to ride my bike home traveling along old Finch. One time it was getting dark, I had my ear phones on. About halfway home, I felt something brush the top of my head. It must of been a branch I though, but when I looked up the lowest branch was at least 20 ft in the air! I was spooked and hurried home!

I tried not to ride at night anymore :)

I would say it was the wind or something flyin o.o

[cooolway]

I upload Ghost stories in my Youtube Channel. All of them occured in Toronto.
Here's one that I love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxZOf-9PqU
and this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507z8bq-GUQ&feature=channel_page

Seriously, for you disbelievers. How can you deny this....?

[dreamwalker]

I upload Ghost stories in my Youtube Channel. All of them occured in Toronto.
Here's one that I love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxZOf-9PqU
and this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507z8bq-GUQ&feature=channel_page

Seriously, for you disbelievers. How can you deny this....?

How can you deny.. anecdotes?

Seriously now, stories are everywhere. There is no concrete proof, and until anyone actually has such an experience, forever the skeptic.

[cooolway]

How can you deny.. anecdotes?

Seriously now, stories are everywhere. There is no concrete proof, and until anyone actually has such an experience, forever the skeptic.
Did you watch the vide?
The only other possibilities is that they are not truthful.

[dreamwalker]

Did you watch the vide?
The only other possibilities is that they are not truthful.

Yeah, saw the first one. It's a good story, but well, there are so many psychological conditions out there that really, you have to be critical.

[cooolway]

Yeah, saw the first one. It's a good story, but well, there are so many psychological conditions out there that really, you have to be critical.

Please see the 2nd one.

Edit, I don't think that you saw the ending of the first one, because you wouldn't be saying that.

[felixdd]

I worked in many hospitals, overnight graveyard shift.

If there's any place that'll be haunted, it'd be a hospital

Haven't seen anything.

[dreamwalker]

Please see the 2nd one.

Edit, I don't think that you saw the ending of the first one, because you wouldn't be saying that.

I saw it, took it with a grain of salt though, I mean after all this show is designed to be believable and spooky. They may have just made her add that in.

[cooolway]

I saw it, took it with a grain of salt though, I mean after all this show is designed to be believable and spooky. They may have just made her add that in.
That's exactly what I don't like, you have no reason to believe that they have "made her add that in" but you do because you don't believe in her story. You made up that reason so you don't have to think about it.

[felixdd]

That's exactly what I don't like, you have no reason to believe that they have "made her add that in" but you do because you don't believe in her story. You made up that reason so you don't have to think about it.

Well we can say that you ignore that reason so you don't have to think about it.

In any case, this is something we can all debate about ad nauseum and no conclusion will ever be reached.

I myself have experienced her "paralysis", "voices", and "visions" while sleeping. It's called hypnagogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogic_hallucinations#Sensory_phenomena). I personally get those like 5-6 a night at times (usually when I'm stressed). Some of them have even been witnessed.

If I chalk it up to being haunted, then damn I have some pretty powerful stuff following me around...even overseas!

But anyways...not entirely convinced of ghosts...but ghost stories are fun all the same. Keep'em coming!

[angekfire]

At my parent's place they have an old Grandmother clock. I hated the chime on the thing, myself, so my mother stopped winding the chime on it (That clock, a grandfather clock, and our doorbell all use the same chime. Makes things confusing as hell). This clock is basically a family heirloom.

The night my grandfather passed away, to the minute, the clock went off, even though the chime hadn't been wound in over a year.

Exactly 1 year after his death, the same time, it chimed again.

Then, some time after that, still not wound since, it chimed again. 2 days in a row. Not even on the hour mark, or any other time the clock would normally chime. Very strange.

When I was younger I was sure I had seen a few ghosts. I accept it could have just been my mind playing tricks on me because nobody else saw it.

A year or 2 ago, myself and a small group of others went and stayed in a museum overnight which was thought to be haunted. We came out with nothing to prove that it was. Some weird stuff for sure, like heat readings on a wall that said it was very cold when to the touch it was actually warm. We took audio recordings for like 2 hours in 1 spot while we left, and heard nothing that could be thought as a ghost. We spread out and sat around in the dark to see if we could see or hear anything, and we didn't. The creepiest thing was there was this mannequin in a fur coat, holding an axe, and it's face was completely smashed in and basically just a void. That thing was just straight up creepy.

[cooolway]

Well we can say that you ignore that reason so you don't have to think about it.

In any case, this is something we can all debate about ad nauseum and no conclusion will ever be reached.

I myself have experienced her "paralysis", "voices", and "visions" while sleeping. It's called hypnagogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogic_hallucinations#Sensory_phenomena). I personally get those like 5-6 a night at times (usually when I'm stressed). Some of them have even been witnessed.

If I chalk it up to being haunted, then damn I have some pretty powerful stuff following me around...even overseas!

But anyways...not entirely convinced of ghosts...but ghost stories are fun all the same. Keep'em coming!
I don't want to ignore any reasoning with prove or any evidence. If I saw a hint of doctoring of the true testimony, of course I wouldn't believe it.

Also, here is one video in my YB channel about this sleep paralysis. Some "hag" keeps haunting her in her sleep. Please do watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZF652AwqwM

You are correct about the ad nauseum thing. I love talking about religion too but that gets nauseating too after a while.

[ullyeus]

I upload Ghost stories in my Youtube Channel. All of them occured in Toronto.
Here's one that I love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxZOf-9PqU
and this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507z8bq-GUQ&feature=channel_page

Seriously, for you disbelievers. How can you deny this....?

I am a disbeliever and I deny the links as anecdotal evidence holds zero sway with me...absolutely unconvincing...

[cooolway]

I am a disbeliever and I deny the links as anecdotal evidence holds zero sway with me...absolutely unconvincing...

Did the watch the videos from the start to the end?

Why won't you accept any anecdotal evidence?

[ullyeus]

Did the watch the videos from the start to the end?

Why won't you accept any anecdotal evidence?

I watched the 2nd one entirely to appease you.

Why won't I accept it? The same reason the legal system or anyone logical wouldn't accept it..it's hearsay and considered unreliable by it's very nature....

[angekfire]

I am a disbeliever and I deny the links as anecdotal evidence holds zero sway with me...absolutely unconvincing...

Fair enough view. Personally, I like to view it as a skeptic, like I view many things. Unless it can be proven to me, I'm not going to fully buy into it.

Ghost stories are cool, however if you are in a place that is reputed to be haunted, how many things are really aspects of the 'haunting' and how many are simply your mind hearing or seeing what it wants/expects and is anticipating? Like I said, I've been in a supposedly haunted museum, and we basically found nothing that would suggest that it was haunted. Creaky floorboards can easily be the house setting, or perhaps expanding & contracting due to heat fluctuations, or water pipes, or a number of things.

Or curses. Somebody says they place a curse on you, and all of a sudden anything bad that happens is attributed to it and supernatural powers, even though those things probably could have happened to you anyway. Curses may very well work, and effectively, but as a placebo effect, and people expecting ill to come to them.

We often attribute things we don't fully understand to the supernatural. Look at our ancient ancestors who used to believe the sun was a God because they didn't know or were incapable of understanding what it really is.

[raymondly]

Did the watch the videos from the start to the end?

Why won't you accept any anecdotal evidence?

If I may answer for them.
They do not accept anecdotal evidence because ghosts do not exist.

[msklifesux]

I have homeland security brand gun just in case if casper decides to haunt me…
Is that bad ? :(

[45ED]

Did the watch the videos from the start to the end?

Why won't you accept any anecdotal evidence?

Possible reasons:

There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and evidence acquired using the scientific method. I'm pretty sure I know which one Ullyeus prefers.
Because the existence of ghosts can't be proven utilizing the scientific method.
In this day of acting, props, special effects, and digital video editing software, how can you possibly take clips like that on Youtube as being authentic?


Either way, if you can manage to convince James Randi and his posse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation) that this is real, we might believe this then. But only after. Not before.

[cooolway]

I watched the 2nd one entirely to appease you.

Why won't I accept it? The same reason the legal system or anyone logical wouldn't accept it..it's hearsay and considered unreliable by it's very nature....

I certainly do accept them and also the legal system accepts them. I thought hearsay was when information is passed down like person to person. This is direct witness testimony which is accepted by law.

[cooolway]

Possible reasons:

There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and evidence acquired using the scientific method. I'm pretty sure I know which one Ullyeus prefers.
Because the existence of ghosts can't be proven utilizing the scientific method.
In this day of acting, props, special effects, and digital video editing software, how can you possibly take clips like that on Youtube as being authentic?


Either way, if you can manage to convince James Randi and his posse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation) that this is real, we might believe this then. But only after. Not before.
I agree with you completely.
I'd rather have scientific evid than just a witness. but that doesn't mean you should ignore ALL witnesses. Most crimes are not solved by science, it's mostly witness. because Science cost money (in the legal system), it's much cheaper to follow witness testimony and if that fails, bring Science in.


Because the existence of ghosts can't be proven utilizing the scientific method.
Can Science prove love? I believe in Science and I love Science all the way but we haven't advance in the stage Science can prove everything and disprove everything fake.

[angekfire]

Can Science prove love? I believe in Science and I love Science all the way but we haven't advance in the stage Science can prove everything and disprove everything fake.

At this stage, science cannot prove everything, including the existance of a God or ghosts. However, it can also not disprove it.

This is why I remain a skeptic. Because while it cannot prove the point, it cannot disprove it.

I'm waiting for pastafarians to pop in and comment on that statement, hah.

[VIKKO]

during high school, we played Ouija Board quite often
one time, i wasnt there, my best friend currently and 3 other close friends were playing. the lights were all off and they were communicating with a man who died in the army 100s of years ago. moments after, one close buddy starts balling in tears huddled in the corner bc he is so scared. apparently, the man was chasing him around with a sword.

after that, we never played ouija board again.

[cooolway]

At this stage, science cannot prove everything, including the existance of a God or ghosts. However, it can also not disprove it.

This is why I remain a skeptic. Because while it cannot prove the point, it cannot disprove it.

I'm waiting for pastafarians to pop in and comment on that statement, hah.
For me, I believe in the most likelihood theory which is for me, a creator of the Universe and the unseen, but until Science can disprove them, I will believe in this theory. I think that it's better theory saying "i don't know".

[ullyeus]

For me, I believe in the most likelihood theory which is for me, a creator of the Universe and the unseen, but until Science can disprove them, I will believe in this theory. I think that it's better theory saying "i don't know".

As the saying goes "ignorance is bliss". Burden of proof isn't on science in your example..it's under no obligation to disprove your crackpot theories...your theory needs to proof itself.

[cooolway]

As the saying goes "ignorance is bliss". Burden of proof isn't on science in your example..it's under no obligation to disprove your crackpot theories...your theory needs to proof itself.
All's it need to better theory on life. That's it. No need to disprove it.

[ullyeus]

All's it need to better theory on life. That's it. No need to disprove it.

Wouldn't any theory beyond "the unseen creator of the universe did it" constitute better?

[cooolway]

Wouldn't any theory beyond "the unseen creator of the universe did it" constitute better?

Yes it would. Any theory that is more likely (if that's what you mean by beyond) would constitute as a better theory.

[angekfire]

For me, I believe in the most likelihood theory which is for me, a creator of the Universe and the unseen, but until Science can disprove them, I will believe in this theory. I think that it's better theory saying "i don't know".

I have more respect for people who are willing to admit that they don't have all the answers over somebody who makes stuff up.

I can make up the theory that there is an invisible pink unicorn which is omnipotent, and science can't prove me wrong, but I have no way to prove it right either. Sure, you may call that concept crazy, but that is how many people view religions which believe in an invisible god who is all powerful but cannot be proven.

Yes it would. Any theory that is more likely (if that's what you mean by beyond) would constitute as a better theory.

You should look into Occam's Razor.

[nuberific]

I'm agnostic towards ghosts. But it's just a story so I'll share a tale from my coworker for funsies.

When she was younger, in the Philippines, she and her sister were walking through their town when they saw their uncle. They called out to him but he walked right by them with no acknowledgment. When they got home, their aunt was there crying because her husband, the one my coworker saw earlier, had died this morning.

*cue eerie music*

[cooolway]

I have more respect for people who are willing to admit that they don't have all the answers over somebody who makes stuff up.
I do too, I hope that you weren't referring to me, though. lol
I don't have all the answers.
Right now, I have two theories in front of me; one being that this world had a designer, and the other one being that this world had no designer and the "cause" is currently unknown. I choose the former choice.
I can make up the theory that there is an invisible pink unicorn which is omnipotent, and science can't prove me wrong, but I have no way to prove it right either. Sure, you may call that concept crazy, but that is how many people view religions which believe in an invisible god who is all powerful but cannot be proven.
You sure can but you would need evidence for this being for a person to believe it, or at least some reasoning...

You should look into Occam's Razor.
I know that razor, learned it last year and I agree with it. But I am not saying that I will change my theory because Science disproving a designer is bound to happen. But if it does, I will change my belief.

[ullyeus]

I am starting to think you are just trolling..or an idiot.. but I'll play along once more....


You sure can but you would need evidence for this being for a person to believe it, or at least some reasoning...

You don't have any...so why would anyone else?

[cooolway]

I am starting to think you are just trolling..or an idiot.. but I'll play along once more....



You don't have any...so why would anyone else?

If you think that I am a troll or an idiot, then stop talking to me and GTFO.

[sxz]

Let's not turn this into a religion debate. We all know where THOSE threads go (and no, it's not Hell).

Ghosts are cool. Keep the stories coming. If nothing else, they're entertaining to read.

[Silverhack]

awww man guys i started this thread awhile ago to see if anyone would share some stories because ghost stories are interesting to read.


Booooo

[angekfire]

You sure can but you would need evidence for this being for a person to believe it, or at least some reasoning...

I can't prove it, and you can't disprove it. Same with an intelligent designer. Can't be proved or disproved. What makes 'God' require no proof, but the flying spaghetti monster does require proof?

Ghosts are cool. Keep the stories coming. If nothing else, they're entertaining to read.

Agreed.

awww man guys i started this thread awhile ago to see if anyone would share some stories because ghost stories are interesting to read.


Booooo

I did share a story, and nobody commented on it, so don't blame me. I did share.

[5dark]

Yes this could be a good thread, if you want to start on the religious, please start a new thread (so that one can get locked).

[cooolway]

Let's not turn this into a religion debate. We all know where THOSE threads go (and no, it's not Hell).

Ghosts are cool. Keep the stories coming. If nothing else, they're entertaining to read.
watch my youtube channal for ghost stories in toronto
http://www.youtube.com/user/cooolway

[skeletor]

In defense of these ghost phenomena and people trying to blow them off that science would say otherwise:

You know, there are actual ghost hunter groups out there and they use scientific methods and measurement to try and catch/measure paranormal activity..

the fact of the matter is, it is common among many haunted locations in the world for things like locked doors opening and closing on their own and other objects shifting around without presence of an explainable external force, motion of orbs caught on camera, which aren't just light effects, unexplained cold spots in rooms, even Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) which aren't just radio signals but unexplained messages caught on recording tape which in many cases are consistent with people who were previously there at one time..

The people who go about getting this research data use a scientific approach and perform these tests in controlled environments. They aren't some religious wingnuts trying to preach heaven and hell... These kind of phenomena are quite common among many locations performed by various different groups around the world.

[angekfire]

You know, there are actual ghost hunter groups out there and they use scientific methods and measurement to try and catch/measure paranormal activity..

the fact of the matter is, it is common among many haunted locations in the world for things like locked doors opening and closing on their own, motion of orbs caught on camera, which aren't just light effects, unexplained cold spots in rooms, even Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) which aren't just radio signals but unexplained messages caught on recording tape.

The people who go about getting this research data use a scientific approach. They aren't some religious wingnuts trying to preach heaven and hell...

I did one of those hunts. I went in a skeptic, and I came out a skeptic.

We took photos with high end and low end cameras, and we got some ghost orbs, but I still strongly doubt it means anything. It was an old museum, there was obviously going to be a lot of dust which would be disturbed when we entered it.

We left voice recording stuff around to try and catch some EVP, and got nothing.

We did video recording, and got nothing.

We did use a touchless heat sensor and it came up with some weird ratings in come places, but it still could have easily been explained away by location of hot water pipes in the wall or whatever.

Got some weird feelings and such, but that could have easily just been anticipation or me expecting something. I don't trust something as subjective as that to indicate a haunting.

We were sort of a mixed group. A few of the people were very into paranormal, and definite believers, while myself and another were more on the border of "We want to believe, but we want to find some kind of evidence first, and we will examine everything and use the most logical reasoning to explain what we find". A few of the people who were very into it were saying things like "I feel a presence over here of a woman", and while I think that can help, it certainly doesn't man anything on it's own. If we were to use that as a guide for where to take video and photos, and something other than orbs turned up in those pictures, then it could have been useful. I think they also tried "talking" to the spirits a few times. Again, not really useful.

Overall, I tried to be very rational and professional about the whole thing. As far as I am concerned the place was creepy, but certainly not haunted. We saw a few pictures of 'hauntings' before we went in, such as the image of a person in a reflection off a picture frame, and when we went in, we didn't see anything that was there that it could have actually been, but something could have been there before and it was moved. Who knows.

[ImJJ]

Warden/Hwy7 driving West, I saw a black shadow crossing hwy 7 north to south during the day. Weather was nice no snow and lots of daylight...

I ran over it thinking I might hit it, instead I just went right through it...
I was shaking...

Next day driving East on Hwy 7, my left front tired exploded right around the spot parallel to where I saw the thing day before...I thought I might ran over a nail b/c there was a lot of construction going on around that area...

That's it for my story, you can choose to believe or not...

[Akraz]

I've listened to Ghosts 1-36 from Nine Inch Nails

Does that count? That's as far as my ghost believing goes.

[MoonDoggy]

Not a ghost story, but used to get hallucination when I was a kid. It is always the same scenario and always when I wake up from sleep. The hallucination is about masses of faceless people rushing in from one exit of the room to another. I would be fully awake, recognize where I am and that I just woke up. I even recognize those who are in the room and what they are talking about. Its just I see fast faceless people.

The hallucination stopped when I moved to Canada when I was 11. Never had it since.

[dreamwalker]

Not a ghost story, but used to get hallucination when I was a kid. It is always the same scenario and always when I wake up from sleep. The hallucination is about masses of faceless people rushing in from one exit of the room to another. I would be fully awake, recognize where I am and that I just woke up. I even recognize those who are in the room and what they are talking about. Its just I see fast faceless people.

The hallucination stopped when I moved to Canada when I was 11. Never had it since.

It was probably this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

And cooolway, I'm not trying to be difficult regarding your beliefs on this subject, but I just finished my undergrad where most of my electives were in psychology/abnormal psyc, so you must understand that most of these things can be attributed to psychological issues.

The more you know about the state of the human mind, the less you attribute to spiritual phenomenon.

Hence me being a skeptic until I experience such a thing myself..

[MoonDoggy]

@dreamwalker

It says sleep paralysis leaves the patient unable to move. I was able to freely move around (some cases I went to another room). Can that still be sleep paralysis?

[msklifesux]

Have you guys been to a haunted house? Lol.. that be fun thing to do you know.. if you don’t mind you know.. dieing..

[cooolway]

It was probably this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

And cooolway, I'm not trying to be difficult regarding your beliefs on this subject, but I just finished my undergrad where most of my electives were in psychology/abnormal psyc, so you must understand that most of these things can be attributed to psychological issues.

The more you know about the state of the human mind, the less you attribute to spiritual phenomenon.

Hence me being a skeptic until I experience such a thing myself..
Of course they can. I believe that completely. but to say that all of them are false because of psychological issues is not something that i could believe in.

please do watch my channel videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/cooolway

I have all the episodes of "Ghostly Encounters" and some of them I believe, and some of them , I don't. The one where I mostly believe is when more than one person is experiencing it.

[skeletor]

I did one of those hunts. I went in a skeptic, and I came out a skeptic.

We took photos with high end and low end cameras, and we got some ghost orbs, but I still strongly doubt it means anything. It was an old museum, there was obviously going to be a lot of dust which would be disturbed when we entered it.

We left voice recording stuff around to try and catch some EVP, and got nothing.

We did video recording, and got nothing.

We did use a touchless heat sensor and it came up with some weird ratings in come places, but it still could have easily been explained away by location of hot water pipes in the wall or whatever.

Got some weird feelings and such, but that could have easily just been anticipation or me expecting something. I don't trust something as subjective as that to indicate a haunting.

We were sort of a mixed group. A few of the people were very into paranormal, and definite believers, while myself and another were more on the border of "We want to believe, but we want to find some kind of evidence first, and we will examine everything and use the most logical reasoning to explain what we find". A few of the people who were very into it were saying things like "I feel a presence over here of a woman", and while I think that can help, it certainly doesn't man anything on it's own. If we were to use that as a guide for where to take video and photos, and something other than orbs turned up in those pictures, then it could have been useful. I think they also tried "talking" to the spirits a few times. Again, not really useful.

Overall, I tried to be very rational and professional about the whole thing. As far as I am concerned the place was creepy, but certainly not haunted. We saw a few pictures of 'hauntings' before we went in, such as the image of a person in a reflection off a picture frame, and when we went in, we didn't see anything that was there that it could have actually been, but something could have been there before and it was moved. Who knows.

I wouldn't expect you to be a believer and see things with just a single outing.. it takes many attempts and encounters to actually witness paranormal stuff... It also depends on how haunted a location is..

[ullyeus]

In defense of these ghost phenomena and people trying to blow them off that science would say otherwise:

You know, there are actual ghost hunter groups out there and they use scientific methods and measurement to try and catch/measure paranormal activity..

the fact of the matter is, it is common among many haunted locations in the world for things like locked doors opening and closing on their own and other objects shifting around without presence of an explainable external force, motion of orbs caught on camera, which aren't just light effects, unexplained cold spots in rooms, even Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) which aren't just radio signals but unexplained messages caught on recording tape which in many cases are consistent with people who were previously there at one time..

The people who go about getting this research data use a scientific approach and perform these tests in controlled environments. They aren't some religious wingnuts trying to preach heaven and hell... These kind of phenomena are quite common among many locations performed by various different groups around the world.

No...there aren't...and even if they could prove things like "light effects, EVP, radio signals" none of that would prove a link to ghosts.

[cooolway]

I wouldn't expect you to be a believer and see things with just a single outing.. it takes many attempts and encounters to actually witness paranormal stuff... It also depends on how haunted a location is..
Yes, the haunticity must be high.

[ullyeus]

Yes, the haunticity must be high.

We are making up words now?

I tell you what..I'm a skeptic/logical/realist yet open to things.....why don't you tell me what place I can go to that has such a high "haunticity" that I will be converted to a believer/idiot?

[angekfire]

I wouldn't expect you to be a believer and see things with just a single outing.. it takes many attempts and encounters to actually witness paranormal stuff... It also depends on how haunted a location is..

I'd go again. Obviously I'm not saying it completely disproves it, I am just saying I doubt that said location was actually haunted. The group I went with though has sorta died, nobody really has any ideas for other places nearby to visit that are supposedly haunted, nor the time to organize it. I would go on another one though, because even though I am a skeptic, I'd be happy if I could find some sort of proof, even if just for my own satisfaction.

[angekfire]

We are making up words now?

I tell you what..I'm a skeptic/logical/realist yet open to things.....why don't you tell me what place I can go to that has such a high "haunticity" that I will be converted to a believer/idiot?

I agree entirely. I am a skeptic and realist as well. I don't entirely believe they exist, but that doesn't mean I am unwilling to try to find proof that they do or do not. The way I see it, if I go on one of these things, I am either going to find proof pointing to the existance of ghosts, or I will not find anything, which will lead me more to the conclusion that they do not exist.

And yea, I also assume Haunticity is a made-up word.

[cooolway]

We are making up words now?

I tell you what..I'm a skeptic/logical/realist yet open to things.....why don't you tell me what place I can go to that has such a high "haunticity" that I will be converted to a believer/idiot?
lol, it was a joke.

[dreamwalker]

@dreamwalker

It says sleep paralysis leaves the patient unable to move. I was able to freely move around (some cases I went to another room). Can that still be sleep paralysis?

IIRC, there are different cases, it may be just hallucinatory issues for you in that case.

Either that, or you have a sixth sense. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0167404/) :razz:

[king_george]

I upload Ghost stories in my Youtube Channel. All of them occured in Toronto.
Here's one that I love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxZOf-9PqU
and this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507z8bq-GUQ&feature=channel_page

Seriously, for you disbelievers. How can you deny this....?

If it's on Youtube, it must be true...:lol:

Take THAT disbelievers....

[skeletor]

No...there aren't...and even if they could prove things like "light effects, EVP, radio signals" none of that would prove a link to ghosts.

notice in my post I refer to this as paranormal activity/unexplained because that is what it is..Also in many of these cases these phenomena have usually happen where people have passed away especilaly in very violent/gruesome deaths as a coincidence.

[king_george]

How can someone use the scientific method to chase ghosties when nobody can agree on what exactly a ghostie is?

Therefore I can make up my own equipment to find them and nobody can prove I haven't found one.

TAPS are a pack of hilariously clueless buffoons...:lol: I'd donate to a fund to hire someone to jump out and yell "BOO" when someone is stumbling around in the dark using a voltmeter to look for "hot spots" :lol:

Ghost stories are cool and make real good comic books.

[45ED]

How can someone use the scientific method to chase ghosties when nobody can agree on what exactly a ghostie is?

Therefore I can make up my own equipment to find them and nobody can prove I haven't found one.

TAPS are a pack of hilariously clueless buffoons...:lol: I'd donate to a fund to hire someone to jump out and yell "BOO" when someone is stumbling around in the dark using a voltmeter to look for "hot spots" :lol:

Ghost stories are cool and make real good comic books.

Better yet: record that and put it on Youtube for everyone to watch.

...lol...I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Mercury048]

Some years ago, must've been early 2000's I was browsing ghoststudy.org. It was well past midnight, and my parents were already alseep.

After seeing some very unimpressive (i.e. obviously 'shopped) images I declared to the empty room "This stuff is all ********. If there are any ghosts, give me a sign right now."

Almost immediately, my computer played the shutdown noise (which alone caused me to jump a foot in my chair) and turned itself off. :eek:

I nearly crapped my pants. Went straight to bed, constantly looking over my shoulder. Didn't fall asleep for over an hour.

As it turned out there was a perfectly logical explanation. I won't explain it because it would ruin the magic. Also it would make me look like an idiot. :lol:

I'm a hardcore skeptic now. Ghosts don't exist. If they do then please give me a sign right now.

OHSHI-

[discostupid]

Some years ago, must've been early 2000's I was browsing ghoststudy.org. It was well past midnight, and my parents were already alseep.

After seeing some very unimpressive (i.e. obviously 'shopped) images I declared to the empty room "This stuff is all ********. If there are any ghosts, give me a sign right now."

Almost immediately, my computer played the shutdown noise (which alone caused me to jump a foot in my chair) and turned itself off. :eek:

I nearly crapped my pants. Went straight to bed, constantly looking over my shoulder. Didn't fall asleep for over an hour.

As it turned out there was a perfectly logical explanation. I won't explain it because it would ruin the magic. Also it would make me look like an idiot. :lol:

I'm a hardcore skeptic now. Ghosts don't exist. If they do then please give me a sign right now.

OHSHI-


wowwww did it happen again? and this time the ghost typed the dash before you could finish exclaiming and clicked reply and then shut your computer down? wow! ghosts is for real!

[ullyeus]

notice in my post I refer to this as paranormal activity/unexplained because that is what it is..Also in many of these cases these phenomena have usually happen where people have passed away especilaly in very violent/gruesome deaths as a coincidence.

No they don't.

[kingfencer]

Some years ago, must've been early 2000's I was browsing ghoststudy.org. It was well past midnight, and my parents were already alseep.

After seeing some very unimpressive (i.e. obviously 'shopped) images I declared to the empty room "This stuff is all ********. If there are any ghosts, give me a sign right now."

Almost immediately, my computer played the shutdown noise (which alone caused me to jump a foot in my chair) and turned itself off. :eek:

I nearly crapped my pants. Went straight to bed, constantly looking over my shoulder. Didn't fall asleep for over an hour.

As it turned out there was a perfectly logical explanation. I won't explain it because it would ruin the magic. Also it would make me look like an idiot. :lol:

I'm a hardcore skeptic now. Ghosts don't exist. If they do then please give me a sign right now.

OHSHI-


almost same thing happen to me the other day, i was watching ghost hunter the other day, then all of a sudden the "dvd is now completed". the voice of the girl in the dvd program sounds creepy. i would say something almost jump out of me.

[angekfire]

Now I want to go on another ghost hunt with someone who has the touchless thermometer, and every time he uses it, I was to ask him "Does it hot?"

Every. Single. Time.

[5dark]

Maybe an RFD meet in Old Finch is in order?

[king_george]

Now I want to go on another ghost hunt with someone who has the touchless thermometer, and every time he uses it, I was to ask him "Does it hot?"

Every. Single. Time.
You are insanely evil...not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

Maybe an RFD meet in Old Finch is in order?

The only spirits you'll find there will appear magically from the LCBO.

[skeletor]

No they don't.

you're in denial of anything in this thread... what else is new.

.. In Newton's days people thought the laws of physics were smooth and perfect.. You told people back then about parallel universes, 11 dimensions and time warping they would think you were insane. Our knowledge of science and nature is barely 200 years old.. The fact that these COMMON phenomena have been experienced around the world with people using a scientific approach and open mind does not mean they don't exist. There are thousands of cases which have all of these common traits which are not explained by the structure/architecture of a house some of you try to use to debunk every single one of these occurances.

[nuberific]

you're in denial of anything in this thread... what else is new.

.. In Newton's days people thought the laws of physics were smooth and perfect.. You told people back then about parallel universes, 11 dimensions and time warping they would think you were insane. Our knowledge of science and nature is barely 200 years old.. The fact that these COMMON phenomena have been experienced around the world with people using a scientific approach and open mind does not mean they don't exist. There are thousands of cases which have all of these common traits which are not explained by the structure/architecture of a house some of you try to use to debunk every single one of these occurances.

The problem, however, is that it's not using a scientific approach. It's simply the use of scientific equipment. Science is held to the standard of defining truth today, which was once in the hands of religion and rulers. The scientific method identifies facts through consistent, demonstrable, and repeatable tests; none of which has been true for proving the existence of ghosts. This is not to say that ghosts do not exist, or that is wrong to believe in ghosts just because science has not proven it. But you should not be using the guise of science to make your arguments without any peer-reviewed evidence in the academic community.

[king_george]

you're in denial of anything in this thread... what else is new.

.. In Newton's days people thought the laws of physics were smooth and perfect.. You told people back then about parallel universes, 11 dimensions and time warping they would think you were insane. Our knowledge of science and nature is barely 200 years old.. The fact that these COMMON phenomena have been experienced around the world with people using a scientific approach and open mind does not mean they don't exist. There are thousands of cases which have all of these common traits which are not explained by the structure/architecture of a house some of you try to use to debunk every single one of these occurances.

Bad anology. Nothing Newton observed and theorized defy any natural laws. Everything about so-called paranormal activity does. If you think string theory shows evidence of a spirit world, then you'll have to explain that. I'll bet you can't.

FYI science, nature, engineering and technology dates back to the earliest organized societies. What was possible in all of history before us is possible now. Tell me how the earliest Chinese dynasties didnt know about any of those fields. I can show you that you are utterly and completely wrong in that respect. The only difference is that there are better analytical tools and information sharing today. People are just as intelligent, industrious and driven today as before us.

There is no way to scientifically test for ghosts and such. None at all. Anecdotes are interesting stories but useless as evidence in science. If there was a way to find these things, someone would have pounced on it and made a gazillion dollars in royalties. Perhaps you might demonstrate a scientific method of finding paranormal phenomena? I'll do my best to tear it to shreds along with a few other people here simply because it can't be done this day and age.

Nice argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) though. A million people who experienced somewhat similar experiences can still be wrong.

BTW nobody has to debunk anything, it's called the burden of proof. The claimants have that burden. You are obviously suffering under the common fallacy of wanting people to prove you wrong. Sorry bub, science don't work that way. You claim ghosties, you prove it. That goes for any claim and claimant. It's up to the proponents to convince the rest of the owlrd, always has been and always will be that way. Calling someone "close-minded" or "in denial" for not agreeing doesn't help that cause whatsoever.

[ullyeus]

you're in denial of anything in this thread... what else is new.

.. In Newton's days people thought the laws of physics were smooth and perfect.. You told people back then about parallel universes, 11 dimensions and time warping they would think you were insane. Our knowledge of science and nature is barely 200 years old.. The fact that these COMMON phenomena have been experienced around the world with people using a scientific approach and open mind does not mean they don't exist. There are thousands of cases which have all of these common traits which are not explained by the structure/architecture of a house some of you try to use to debunk every single one of these occurances.

Bad anology. Nothing Newton observed and theorized defy any natural laws. Everything about so-called paranormal activity does. If you think string theory shows evidence of a spirit world, then you'll have to explain that. I'll bet you can't.

FYI science, nature, engineering and technology dates back to the earliest organized societies. What was possible in all of history before us is possible now. Tell me how the earliest Chinese dynasties didnt know about any of those fields. I can show you that you are utterly and completely wrong in that respect. The only difference is that there are better analytical tools and information sharing today. People are just as intelligent, industrious and driven today as before us.

There is no way to scientifically test for ghosts and such. None at all. Anecdotes are interesting stories but useless as evidence in science. If there was a way to find these things, someone would have pounced on it and made a gazillion dollars in royalties. Perhaps you might demonstrate a scientific method of finding paranormal phenomena? I'll do my best to tear it to shreds along with a few other people here simply because it can't be done this day and age.

Nice argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) though. A million people who experienced somewhat similar experiences can still be wrong.

BTW nobody has to debunk anything, it's called the burden of proof. The claimants have that burden. You are obviously suffering under the common fallacy of wanting people to prove you wrong. Sorry bub, science don't work that way. You claim ghosties, you prove it. That goes for any claim and claimant. It's up to the proponents to convince the rest of the owlrd, always has been and always will be that way. Calling someone "close-minded" or "in denial" for not agreeing doesn't help that cause whatsoever.

I like when King hops in, he answers things for me ;)

[king_george]

I like when King hops in, he answers things for me ;)

My bill is in your PM...:D

[skeletor]

The problem, however, is that it's not using a scientific approach. It's simply the use of scientific equipment. Science is held to the standard of defining truth today, which was once in the hands of religion and rulers. The scientific method identifies facts through consistent, demonstrable, and repeatable tests; none of which has been true for proving the existence of ghosts. This is not to say that ghosts do not exist, or that is wrong to believe in ghosts just because science has not proven it. But you should not be using the guise of science to make your arguments without any peer-reviewed evidence in the academic community.

now what is wrong with their approach? They go to a haunted place, take controlled measurements and recordings, perform analysis on the building that could be responsible for the phenomena.. what else can they do? They perform their experiment get results and are unable to explain what they see.. Science can't really take them any further than this.. this is called the unexplainable. Until a theory can be made to explain why these PHENOMENA (I hate using the word ghost) occur.. there is little interest and workable evidence for science to pursue and use.

[skeletor]

Bad anology. Nothing Newton observed and theorized defy any natural laws. Everything about so-called paranormal activity does. If you think string theory shows evidence of a spirit world, then you'll have to explain that. I'll bet you can't.
You don't get the point of what I'm saying and are trying to put my words in my mouth I never even stated anything about linking string theory with spirits?? WTF? this sounds almost like a troll post. My example was to show how human understanding can be blown away in just a matter of decades and we are still at an infancy of understanding nature.


FYI science, nature, engineering and technology dates back to the earliest organized societies. What was possible in all of history before us is possible now. Tell me how the earliest Chinese dynasties didnt know about any of those fields. I can show you that you are utterly and completely wrong in that respect. The only difference is that there are better analytical tools and information sharing today. People are just as intelligent, industrious and driven today as before us. LOLWUT?! Why are you pulling things out of your a** and challenging me with things I never said?? :confused:


There is no way to scientifically test for ghosts and such. None at all. Anecdotes are interesting stories but useless as evidence in science. If there was a way to find these things, someone would have pounced on it and made a gazillion dollars in royalties. Perhaps you might demonstrate a scientific method of finding paranormal phenomena? I'll do my best to tear it to shreds along with a few other people here simply because it can't be done this day and age.

I didn't say people "test" for ghosts, we can simply measure and record PARANORMAL activity.. I hate using the word ghost because it's misleading..
it's just a concidence that this activity is linked with the deceased.


BTW nobody has to debunk anything, it's called the burden of proof. The claimants have that burden. You are obviously suffering under the common fallacy of wanting people to prove you wrong. Sorry bub, science don't work that way. You claim ghosties, you prove it. That goes for any claim and claimant. It's up to the proponents to convince the rest of the owlrd, always has been and always will be that way. Calling someone "close-minded" or "in denial" for not agreeing doesn't help that cause whatsoever.

I'm not claiming "ghosties".. I'm just saying there is measurable evidence of paranormal activities at so called haunted locations. So you're saying all these occurrences of ORBS, EVP's, objects moving on their own are all hoaxes or explainable by their environments?

I'm not here to claim ghosts and the after life exist or any religious B.S., I'm here to say there's more to nature and our understanding than meets the eye and these common occurrences are simply unexplainable but certainly observable.

[king_george]

now what is wrong with their approach? They go to a haunted place, take controlled measurements and recordings, perform analysis on the building that could be responsible for the phenomena.. what else can they do? They perform their experiment get results and are unable to explain what they see.. Science can't really take them any further than this.. this is called the unexplainable. Until a theory can be made to explain why these PHENOMENA (I hate using the word ghost) occur.. there is little interest and workable evidence for science to pursue and use.

Lets see whats wrong here with "paranormalist investigators":

1. They start out with the premise the place is haunted. Bad bad bad investigative method.
2. They use equipment to detect what exactly? If they don't know what they are trying to examine, what good is the equipment they are using?
3. They do nothing to falsify or even attempt to eliminate the mundane explanations.
4. They do not in any way shape or form use the scientific method.
5. Since they don't even know what the phenomena is, their experiments are useless in determining what is happening, if anything.
6. I've heard them trying to explain "electrical fields". Well there bud, those fields are everywhere in our modern society. When they get all googly finding one, they do not even try to see if it's the result of something totally normal and expected.

Here's a useless anecdote about an old house (built in 1864) I owned. I found out one day (and was quite startled at first) then when I walked up or down the stairs, about 3 minutes or so afterwards it sounded exactly like someone followed me up or down the stairs. More than once I jerked around and saw nothing even as the top or bottom stair creaked as if someone walked over it. I did some quick investigation and soon discovered the cause. It seems that rather than punching holes in the walls to run a heat/AC vent upstairs, someone had simply run a pipe under the stairs and then drywalled over it. When the heat or ac was running, it would warp the stairs. When I walked on them they would get unwarped and after a little while they would return to the original warp. That was the sound I heard. This only happened in the winter or summer though when the furnace or ac was running.

I had great fun with this when I demonstrated my pet ghost to people. Sometimes I strolled up or down the stairs, sometimes I ran and skipped stairs to show how smart the spirit is. Each and every time the supposed sppok would copy my exact steps and rhythm. My kids and wife couldn't do it because they are way too light and couldn't unwarp the stairs. :mad: Me, being the big slob that I am, had no problems. >:(

Some of the gullible fools actually believed it to be a wandering spirit and remained that way even when I showed them the reason. :lol: I had to put a stop to the charade after some people showed up from the local ghost society with a Ouija board. Kids were young and impressionable and I didn't want the creduloids talking stupid to them.:mad:

It was fun while it lasted.

[king_george]

You don't get the point of what I'm saying and are trying to put my words in my mouth I never even stated anything about linking string theory with spirits?? WTF? this sounds almost like a troll post. My example was to show how human understanding can be blown away in just a matter of decades and we are still at an infancy of understanding nature.

You brought up parallel universes, 11 dimension etc. If that's not string theory then wtf are you talking about? Besides, that added to our knowledge of the universe and did not replace or blow away anything.
Human knowledge is constantly changing, but it always follows the physical laws of the universe. "Paranormal" doesn't do that.

LOLWUT?! Why are you pulling things out of your a** and challenging me with things I never said?? :confused:

You stated that our nature and scientific knowledge is about 200 years old. You are so wrong it's epic. Totally epic.


I didn't say people "test" for ghosts, we can simply measure and record PARANORMAL activity.. I hate using the word ghost because it's misleading..
it's just a concidence that this activity is linked with the deceased.


Whatever. It's still impossible to test for something that's never been shown to exist. End of story.



I'm not claiming "ghosties".. I'm just saying there is measurable evidence of paranormal activities at so called haunted locations. So you're saying all these occurrences of ORBS, EVP's, objects moving on their own are all hoaxes or explainable by their environments?

So why the statement that each individual anecdote needs to be debunked? Only in the minds of believers I suspect, otherwise they must be true.
What "measurable evidence"? Who measured it and what did they measure for? How was it measured and what did they use for a baseline? All important question whenever some claims to use the scientific method. Of course I don't expect an answer since they don't do any of that.


I'm not here to claim ghosts and the after life exist or any religious B.S., I'm here to say there's more to nature and our understanding than meets the eye and these common occurrences are simply unexplainable but certainly observable.

No there isn't, otherwise it would be demonstrable and repeatable. And yes, I'm saying that those things you listed have never been shown to happen. Ever. EVP is a special kind of stupid related to pareidola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia) and is totally open to whatever interpretation the listener wants to hear. Orbs are invariably dust motes that are out of focus in the lens field. Totally mundane explanations that are of course rejected by the believers.
When has the movement of inanimate objects all by themselevs ever been shown except by anecdote?

Come on you investigators! Get out there and prove the world wrong and show us something! It's worth a million if you can show it to James Randi. Like that will ever happen :D Come on get out of the "infant" stage and get to toddler already...

[toalan]

Bad anology. Nothing Newton observed and theorized defy any natural laws. Everything about so-called paranormal activity does. If you think string theory shows evidence of a spirit world, then you'll have to explain that. I'll bet you can't.

FYI science, nature, engineering and technology dates back to the earliest organized societies. What was possible in all of history before us is possible now. Tell me how the earliest Chinese dynasties didnt know about any of those fields. I can show you that you are utterly and completely wrong in that respect. The only difference is that there are better analytical tools and information sharing today. People are just as intelligent, industrious and driven today as before us.

There is no way to scientifically test for ghosts and such. None at all. Anecdotes are interesting stories but useless as evidence in science. If there was a way to find these things, someone would have pounced on it and made a gazillion dollars in royalties. Perhaps you might demonstrate a scientific method of finding paranormal phenomena? I'll do my best to tear it to shreds along with a few other people here simply because it can't be done this day and age.

Nice argumentum ad populum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) though. A million people who experienced somewhat similar experiences can still be wrong.

BTW nobody has to debunk anything, it's called the burden of proof. The claimants have that burden. You are obviously suffering under the common fallacy of wanting people to prove you wrong. Sorry bub, science don't work that way. You claim ghosties, you prove it. That goes for any claim and claimant. It's up to the proponents to convince the rest of the owlrd, always has been and always will be that way. Calling someone "close-minded" or "in denial" for not agreeing doesn't help that cause whatsoever.

String theory does not directly prove the existence of ghosts, it mere proves how little we know and understand about physics and nature. Because we know and understand so little, there is much room for the existence of ghosts and other occult phenomenon. I say that string theory proves our ignorance because we must be totally dumb and desperate for insight into the universe if we invent and accept a theory that; perhaps only half a dozen people in the world understand, no way to prove or test the theory, adds another 7 dimensions.

I believe that human DNA is composed of about 7 billion or so base pairs (not sure what it is called), I do not believe that 7 billion bits of data is able to define a human being. If you consider each base pair as a bit, that would be about a gigabyte worth of data, I know it is a poor comparison but it is the closest I can think of, a gig of data is not much. There has to be much more to us than a gig of data.

[skeletor]

please keep typing essays and dissecting all my sentences.. I honestly don't care that much about this topic to do an all out back and forth battle of text this evening.

perhaps I shall hire your services in the future, you are a hard working troll. :D

[king_george]

please keep typing essays and dissecting all my sentences.. I honestly don't care that much about this topic to do an all out back and forth battle of text this evening.

perhaps I shall hire your services in the future, you are a hard working troll. :D

Ok I understand you have nothing and do not understand anything about science and the scientific method. I wish you could have stated this long before you went on and on about science and the paranormal.

Please also try and figure out what a troll is and does rather than relying on ignorance to guide you on message boards.

Thanks for playing and run along now so the adults can talk. I'm sure there are boards out there who would take you seriously.

[king_george]

String theory does not directly prove the existence of ghosts, it mere proves how little we know and understand about physics and nature. Because we know and understand so little, there is much room for the existence of ghosts and other occult phenomenon. I say that string theory proves our ignorance because we must be totally dumb and desperate for insight into the universe if we invent and accept a theory that; perhaps only half a dozen people in the world understand, no way to prove or test the theory, adds another 7 dimensions.

String theory is so counter-intuitive that only a really specialized type of mathematician can truly explain it. Once more research is done and experiments performed (LHC), then it will add to the knowledge of the world. Studying string theory IMO doesn't show ignorance, but a willingness to strive for more knowledge.
When someone discovers anything about so-called occult/paranormal, it'll be the first. Until then all we have are incompetent researchers, false conclusions and scam artists.

I believe that human DNA is composed of about 7 billion or so base pairs (not sure what it is called), I do not believe that 7 billion bits of data is able to define a human being. If you consider each base pair as a bit, that would be about a gigabyte worth of data, I know it is a poor comparison but it is the closest I can think of, a gig of data is not much. There has to be much more to us than a gig of data.

Hopefully one day someone will find out exactly what, if anything, we are composed of and how we fit in this universe. Until then it's all speculation and guessing. Anyone who says they have "the answer" is full of it.

I'd love to be around when that day comes.:)

BTW your comparison of base pairs to bits is as good as any others I've read about.

[king_george]

[IMG]talking down to others with such arrogance and purposely twisting arguments in unrelated tangents to derail a thread = TROLL.
keep typing your essays and frothing at the mouth Mr. Bill Nye.

Thanks. Bill Nye is a fine example of how I'd like to teach kids science. Best compliment I've had all day. :)

Talking down to you is impossible to prevent. Perhaps some good textbooks on science and logic might elevate your intellect?

Speaking of frothing at the mouth....:D Oh yes you were the one who brought up science and paranormal. Funny now I'm the derailer. If you had a coherent argument nobody could twist it and you could show understanding of the topic at hand.

I love it when the clueless get all uppity and angry at their betters. As if
a juvenile picture you found on the interwebs will keep me from speaking my mind.....

For someone who doesn't care to continue the thread you sure type a lot.

ETA: IBTL :)

[toalan]

String theory is so counter-intuitive that only a really specialized type of mathematician can truly explain it. Once more research is done and experiments performed (LHC), then it will add to the knowledge of the world. Studying string theory IMO doesn't show ignorance, but a willingness to strive for more knowledge.
When someone discovers anything about so-called occult/paranormal, it'll be the first. Until then all we have are incompetent researchers, false conclusions and scam artists.


Hopefully one day someone will find out exactly what, if anything, we are composed of and how we fit in this universe. Until then it's all speculation and guessing. Anyone who says they have "the answer" is full of it.

I'd love to be around when that day comes.:)

BTW your comparison of base pairs to bits is as good as any others I've read about.

From what I know, there is supposed to be either 1 or 2 people in the world who can grasp string theory. String theory is very exotic, it is one of a very few theories that attempt to reconcile the 5 fundamental forces, it is the faith of physicists in a unified force that persuades them to swallow string theory. The pillars of science that you think are so solid are very weak, all science stems from the 5 forces, yet we know absolutely nothing about them, why is gravity the way it is or why is an electron volt the value it is? No one knows, all we know is that for as long as we have measured them, they have been the same. It is like memorizing a multiplication table but not being able to actually do multiplication, on the surface you might think you know math but you do not.

Putting science on a pedestal, and putting down the paranormal because it does not meet scientific standards is not right. There is just too many voids in our scientific knowledge to use it as the gold standard. 11 dimensions, balck holes that you can enter and travel back in time through, ghosts, vampires, God, Aliens, you can easily fit all that and a bag of chips through the void.

[king_george]

From what I know, there is supposed to be either 1 or 2 people in the world who can grasp string theory. String theory is very exotic, it is one of a very few theories that attempt to reconcile the 5 fundamental forces, it is the faith of physicists in a unified force that persuades them to swallow string theory. The pillars of science that you think are so solid are very weak, all science stems from the 5 forces, yet we know absolutely nothing about them, why is gravity the way it is or why is an electron volt the value it is? No one knows, all we know is that for as long as we have measured them, they have been the same. It is like memorizing a multiplication table but not being able to actually do multiplication, on the surface you might think you know math but you do not.

Putting science on a pedestal, and putting down the paranormal because it does not meet scientific standards is not right. There is just too many voids in our scientific knowledge to use it as the gold standard. 11 dimensions, balck holes that you can enter and travel back in time through, ghosts, vampires, God, Aliens, you can easily fit all that and a bag of chips through the void.

Science is the only way to gain knowledge of our physical world. It's on a pedestal because the scientific method is wildly successful. Science is probably the most solid discipline today.

If there is something to string theory, occult, etc etc then science will discover the knowledge contained within. There simply is no other dependable method of gathering knowledge other than the scientific method.

I put down the paranormal the same as I put down other beliefs that don't have a speck of evidence yet people swallow the stories without question. However, if and when any knowledge is gained that shows the existence of anything paranormal, I'll be the first to congratulate the person.

It's the way I think...no belief until some solid, verifiable and repeatable evidence is presented.

[nuberific]

now what is wrong with their approach? They go to a haunted place, take controlled measurements and recordings, perform analysis on the building that could be responsible for the phenomena.. what else can they do? They perform their experiment get results and are unable to explain what they see.. Science can't really take them any further than this.. this is called the unexplainable. Until a theory can be made to explain why these PHENOMENA (I hate using the word ghost) occur.. there is little interest and workable evidence for science to pursue and use.

An ideal experiment would be to choose a location that you feel is a hotspot for paranormal activity (i.e. haunted house) and compare it to a control (i.e. similar house but not believed to be haunted). Of course, this is difficult because there are no precise ways to measure it!

In the scientific world, all tools used to quantify values are rigorously and repeatedly tested for accuracy to ensure you're actually measuring what you think you're measuring. This has simply not been done with paranormal activity because paranormal activity is simply defined as anything unexplained! And you yourself argue the ignorance of humans. If all you're saying is that science does not answer everything, then I certainly agree. As a science student I certainly understand the limitations of my discipline. But to simply state paranormal activity is proof of ghosts (or other something else) is jumping into the realm of myths.

While king_george seems to have complete faith in science, I have to disagree. Science, like everything, has its place. But clearly it has its shortcomings and may not be quite as successful as many believe.

[skeletor]

An ideal experiment would be to choose a location that you feel is a hotspot for paranormal activity (i.e. haunted house) and compare it to a control (i.e. similar house but not believed to be haunted). Of course, this is difficult because there are no precise ways to measure it!

In the scientific world, all tools used to quantify values are rigorously and repeatedly tested for accuracy to ensure you're actually measuring what you think you're measuring. This has simply not been done with paranormal activity because paranormal activity is simply defined as anything unexplained! And you yourself argue the ignorance of humans. If all you're saying is that science does not answer everything, then I certainly agree. As a science student I certainly understand the limitations of my discipline. But to simply state paranormal activity is proof of ghosts (or other something else) is jumping into the realm of myths.

While king_george seems to have complete faith in science, I have to disagree. Science, like everything, has its place. But clearly it has its shortcomings and may not be quite as successful as many believe.

Now you actually get it.. I'm saying there isn't 100% proof evidence of what people call ghosts or the afterlife. Just that there is repeatable OBSERVATION that shows we don't understand everything there is in nature / laws of physics that can't always explain these strange occurrences.. someone who takes science in its current form like a nazi to explain all things and claim this is how everything is meant to be is bone headed and is hardly any different than typical religious fanatics thinking they know all with just a couple centuries of modern science research. Current models and laws can go so far until they break down.

[cooolway]

I really like people who disbelieve in the unseen, but are at least open to it. I believe in the unseen, but obviously I know that I might be wrong.

There is one ghost show where people claimed that it was haunted, but then they bought this non-believer educated person to spend some time in there. The person always come out not believing in it because he never experienced anything. I loved it.

[Lovable]

I like reading ghost stories, feel free to share any online databases of ghost stories such as http://www.torontoghosts.org/ (not meant to 'advertise', merely referencing since it's on topic). I need something fresh and that site doesn't have many stories posted on a daily basis (for obvious reasons of course).

[king_george]

An ideal experiment would be to choose a location that you feel is a hotspot for paranormal activity (i.e. haunted house) and compare it to a control (i.e. similar house but not believed to be haunted). Of course, this is difficult because there are no precise ways to measure it!

Absolutely. This is never done though. It's much easier to make unfounded assertion and spooky proclamations. Typical of paranormal "research".

In the scientific world, all tools used to quantify values are rigorously and repeatedly tested for accuracy to ensure you're actually measuring what you think you're measuring. This has simply not been done with paranormal activity because paranormal activity is simply defined as anything unexplained! And you yourself argue the ignorance of humans. If all you're saying is that science does not answer everything, then I certainly agree. As a science student I certainly understand the limitations of my discipline. But to simply state paranormal activity is proof of ghosts (or other something else) is jumping into the realm of myths.

While king_george seems to have complete faith in science, I have to disagree. Science, like everything, has its place. But clearly it has its shortcomings and may not be quite as successful as many believe.

Not complete faith, but a high degree of confidence. There is no other dependable method of gathering knowledge than the scientific method. I, for one, can't see many shortcomings in using this method.

What knowledge has anyone gained from paranormal research? Nothing because it always falls apart under scrutiny.

Using the scientific method properly is always successful. Remember there is a difference between science and the scientific method. Paranormal research uses neither properly and the results are typical of misusing this method.

But as I said, if there is anything paranormal in this world then it'll be real researchers who find it, not people like the TAPS stooge brigade.

[king_george]

I like reading ghost stories, feel free to share any online databases of ghost stories such as http://www.torontoghosts.org/ (not meant to 'advertise', merely referencing since it's on topic). I need something fresh and that site doesn't have many stories posted on a daily basis (for obvious reasons of course).

Me too.

Not a bad site for stories. I have to laugh a bit at the seriousness of some of the incident reports though. :lol:

[nuberific]

Not complete faith, but a high degree of confidence. There is no other dependable method of gathering knowledge than the scientific method. I, for one, can't see many shortcomings in using this method.

Sorry, I realise now how bad a word choice 'faith' was :P.

Certainly for defining truth, science is the gold standard. The problem I have with science is more with how it has come to work in practice. I will used an example with the mingling of capitalism and liberalism.

In this world we live in, basically everything is okay to do unless it negatively impacts somebody else. However, the onus of proof lies on the person being impacted to prove that this is the case. And this specifically requires scientific evidence which is built on years of data, interest, and funding. For example, let's say I invent a new machine that harvests clouds and turns them into purified drinking water. Sounds great right? But what of the environmental consequences?

Does the harvesting of clouds disrupt the ecosystem? Will this lack of clouds result in lower rates of rainfall that will destabilize the biota? Will the change in flora yield a faunal response? How will this affect humans? How much cloud harvesting is required to create a significant effect? Are these changes reversible? All these questions are nearly impossible to sort through with the scientific method due logistical reasons. Certainly you cannot run large scale biome experiments to determine if my cloud convertor will cause all these effects. However, what of the risks if we don't?

This is much like the ghost/paranormal example because science is currently unable to provide a clear answer. However, the implicatons of believing whether something will drastically alter the environment is much more dire than the existance of ghosts (presumably o_O). The users of the cloud convertor will say, 'Prove that these changes are real!', yet it will be difficult. And by the time changes are measurable, it may certainly be too late. Clearly, I've segued myself into a discussion global warming where for a long time, science was unable to prove its presence. Even today we're unsure of the final outcome and as a result, there is relatively little effort to stop it.

I used an environmental example, but the same argument can be made from a health perspective. For many years, the smoking industry has made the argument that cigarettes do not cause cancer; even endorsing medical doctors to smoke. Today, we clearly know smoking will tar your lungs and increase your risks for about a bajillion types of cancer. But it has taken far too long to prove through the scientific method due to ethical reasons.

So that's my spiel on a major flaw to science. The burden of proof is sometimes too high for the risks of inaction.

[angekfire]

In this world we live in, basically everything is okay to do unless it negatively impacts somebody else.

If that were the case, why is marijuana illegal but cigarettes are not?

[nuberific]

If that were the case, why is marijuana illegal but cigarettes are not?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[angekfire]

Then you just admitted your point was false. Plenty of things in this world are illegal even if nobody else gets hurt. Suicide, in Canada anyway, is illegal even though the only person it impacts is you. Punishing for it is kinda hard anyway, but still. I am assuming we are talking about legal.

If we aren't then different people have different ideas of what is okay. For example, a lot of people still hate gays despite the fact that it should be classified as okay based on your arguement that it doesn't harm anyone else.

[king_george]

Sorry, I realise now how bad a word choice 'faith' was :P.

No prob.

Snipped to save space....

OK now I understand. I'd agree that there are procedural problems sometimes as in when using the scientific method for studying things like climate change and evolution. Unfortunately we don't live nearly long enough to observe any thing concerning those subjects. :mad: That's why modeling was developed and is used extensively in today's research, but modeling isn't perfect and is subject to GIGO like everything else that requires human interface to work. (Except with my applications, they are perfect in every way :lol:)

The problem with paranormal is that nothing has ever been found to make it compelling enough to study except for mainly fringe type researchers and TV producers. With the environment, predictions can be made to compare agaist real life and there is no way for that to be done with paranormal.

There is simply not one iota of information from any paranormal researchers that is of any use. Nobody can even agree on what paranormal means let alone agree what they are looking for.

But anyways procedural prolems is a different kettle of fish that what I thought your problems with the scientific method is. Who knows maybe someone down the road will develop a dependable model for eco studies and this problem goes away.

One more thing, sceince really doesn't prove anything simply because if new information is found, the truth may change. All you can really say is that scientific investigation when done properly shows the most likely truth rather than proof positive.

[nuberific]

Then you just admitted your point was false. Plenty of things in this world are illegal even if nobody else gets hurt. Suicide, in Canada anyway, is illegal even though the only person it impacts is you. Punishing for it is kinda hard anyway, but still. I am assuming we are talking about legal.

If we aren't then different people have different ideas of what is okay. For example, a lot of people still hate gays despite the fact that it should be classified as okay based on your arguement that it doesn't harm anyone else.

I really didn't mean that statement as the golden rule of life and it wasn't my main argument, but I'll defend it.

What I was referring to was actually the more liberal paradigm that appears to be driving our society (to me anyways). Clearly, our legal system is flawed and many people indeed do feel that cigarettes should be banned and that marijuana should be legalized - but laws change slowly. Although some people can argue that marijuana use does affect others by degrading social structures; I don't feel this way and I could not care less about people toking up, but I hate cigarettes. I'm sure many people feel the same, and many disagree. Cigarettes are still in the game because of historical circumstances that have allowed them to do so. If cigarettes had never existed up until now, I highly doubt they would be able to enter the market.

Suicide certainly affects more than the individual! What of the family and friends? The people who witnessed the suicide? The people who scrape you off the floor? Plus it may have roots from religious sources (sin to suicide).

With regards to homosexuality, I think that's really more on my side of the argument. Being gay was much more stigmatized in the past and is much more accepted today (I attribute this to the liberal movement of 'do your own thing as long as it doesn't bug me'). And I feel it's also moving towards becoming even more normalized with time. But it's pretty difficult to encapsulate the entire world into one statement. I think you'd also be pretty hard pressed to find too many people that are strongly anti-gay. In fact, I think it's pretty stigmatized now to be openly anti-gay.

OK now I understand. I'd agree that there are procedural problems sometimes as in when using the scientific method for studying things like climate change and evolution. Unfortunately we don't live nearly long enough to observe any thing concerning those subjects. :mad: That's why modeling was developed and is used extensively in today's research, but modeling isn't perfect and is subject to GIGO like everything else that requires human interface to work. (Except with my applications, they are perfect in every way :lol:)

The problem with paranormal is that nothing has ever been found to make it compelling enough to study except for mainly fringe type researchers and TV producers. With the environment, predictions can be made to compare agaist real life and there is no way for that to be done with paranormal.

There is simply not one iota of information from any paranormal researchers that is of any use. Nobody can even agree on what paranormal means let alone agree what they are looking for.

But anyways procedural prolems is a different kettle of fish that what I thought your problems with the scientific method is. Who knows maybe someone down the road will develop a dependable model for eco studies and this problem goes away.

One more thing, sceince really doesn't prove anything simply because if new information is found, the truth may change. All you can really say is that scientific investigation when done properly shows the most likely truth rather than proof positive.

I certainly agree with you there. I just felt like sharing some qualms I had for any that wasn't aware of the limitations of science today.

[bobbings]

With regards to homosexuality, I think that's really more on my side of the argument. Being gay was much more stigmatized in the past and is much more accepted today (I attribute this to the liberal movement of 'do your own thing as long as it doesn't bug me'). And I feel it's also moving towards becoming even more normalized with time. But it's pretty difficult to encapsulate the entire world into one statement. I think you'd also be pretty hard pressed to find too many people that are strongly anti-gay. In fact, I think it's pretty stigmatized now to be openly anti-gay.

I had to LOL a bit because I come into this thread thinking it's about ghosts and the first thing I do is scroll to the last post. This is what I see which has nothing to do with ghosts lol

[ImJJ]

I had to LOL a bit because I come into this thread thinking it's about ghosts and the first thing I do is scroll to the last post. This is what I see which has nothing to do with ghosts lol

+1

Off Topic posts in an Off Topic thread...:o