Most Competitive?

[DYN4STY]

what do you the most competitve undergrad program is (in canada)?

more specifically, which is most competitive out of: schulich, ivey and queens commerce?

usually i tend to see the higher average people wanna go to queens, followed by schulich and ivey. is this correct?

lastly, which of these 3 programs do u think is easiest (less tough than the others) to be top of ur class in?

[Sniper001]

Most competitive to least competitive.
Ivey > Queens > Schulich.

[Time_Keeper]

what do you the most competitve undergrad program is (in canada)?

more specifically, which is most competitive out of: schulich, ivey and queens commerce?

usually i tend to see the higher average people wanna go to queens, followed by schulich and ivey. is this correct?

lastly, which of these 3 programs do u think is easiest (less tough than the others) to be top of ur class in?

Most competitive is waterloo's Chartered Accounting/Biotech program. Atleast that's what I've heard.

And I always thought schulich was harder to get into, then ivy.

[DYN4STY]

Most competitive is waterloo's Chartered Accounting/Biotech program. Atleast that's what I've heard.

And I always thought schulich was harder to get into, then ivy.

i heard about that waterloo program.. dont they admit only like 10 ppl? something like that. and i thought schulich was the easiest to get into since ppl overrate it so much.

[can't get 'nough dealz]

In terms of getting accepted, each school varies.

For Schulich, as long as you hit the cut-off and have SOMETHING at least "good" written for your supplementary, then you're in.

For Queens, your average justs have to be below 90, BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT that you have a good supplementary. EXTRA CURRICS is important for Queens.

For Ivey, they tend to admit a lot more people simply because they know that the majority wont maintain an 80 average.

In terms of curriculum, I really dont think it matters, its just what exactly are you planning to do? Schulich is better for Accounting, DO NOT GO TO IVEY FOR ACCOUNTING, you would have a harder time trying to get your CREDIT HOURS for ICAO. Queens and Ivey are better for Investment Banking/Finance. But at the end, its all about the network you build.

[DYN4STY]

In terms of getting accepted, each school varies.

For Schulich, as long as you hit the cut-off and have SOMETHING at least "good" written for your supplementary, then you're in.

For Queens, your average justs have to be below 90, BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT that you have a good supplementary. EXTRA CURRICS is important for Queens.

For Ivey, they tend to admit a lot more people simply because they know that the majority wont maintain an 80 average.

In terms of curriculum, I really dont think it matters, its just what exactly are you planning to do? Schulich is better for Accounting, DO NOT GO TO IVEY FOR ACCOUNTING, you would have a harder time trying to get your CREDIT HOURS for ICAO. Queens and Ivey are better for Investment Banking/Finance. But at the end, its all about the network you build.

thanks for the advice, and i dont wanna go into accounting for sure. i was thinking to go to law school after undergrad to become work in corporate law but if i had to choose a business field.. investment banking.

[EnGros]

Paramedic and Dental Hygiene at College.

I kid you not.

[DeltasInTheSky]

Trent - General Arts. Dawg, I had a 58 average and I JUST GOT IN.

[ngold]

thanks for the advice, and i dont wanna go into accounting for sure. i was thinking to go to law school after undergrad to become work in corporate law but if i had to choose a business field.. investment banking.

If you want to get into law school then don't go for a competitive undergrad program.
Competitive program might get you bad GPA, and a bad GPA is a bad GPA no matter how competitive the program is.
You have a better shot at a good law school with a 4.0 GPA in B.A. Economics than with a 2.5 GPA in Schulich.

[poedua]

thanks for the advice, and i dont wanna go into accounting for sure. i was thinking to go to law school after undergrad to become work in corporate law but if i had to choose a business field.. investment banking.

Smart call.

After all, who'd want to spend the rest of their life as a ' bean counter ' !:lol:

[salabanzi]

I've heard Engineering Science at UT is pretty competitive.

[night_sky]

I've heard Engineering Science at UT is pretty competitive.

I graduated Engineering Science 0T7 in biomedical option. I can confirm it's pretty competitive, all right, since everyone's so damn smart... but once you're in it, it's nowhere as cutthroat as Life Science at U of T.

OP - you're missing the verb in the first sentence (call the grammar nazi!)

[Sniper001]

thanks for the advice, and i dont wanna go into accounting for sure. i was thinking to go to law school after undergrad to become work in corporate law but if i had to choose a business field.. investment banking.
That's exactly what I want to do as well. I'd recommend Schulich. Much easier to obtain a higher average (you need a high GPA + good LSAT to get into law school) and ALOT cheaper than Queens + Ivey. If money isn't too big of an issue, than go for Queens.
Also, Schulich doesn't require calculus (which is the hardest from the 3 maths) so you should be able to hit a 90% average on the dot and get that instant scholarship.

However, in the end it all comes down to what YOU want. Go to all 3 universities and see which one suits you. You'd be surprised how many people switch universities after first year because they just don't like the community or how the university looks like. I've seen both Schulich and Queens, and I can say Queens is MUCH better... it's just (in my personal opinion) not worth it to go there (cost-wise). Law school is expensive, I figure I'm not going to waste so much money on an undergrad.. I might as well use that money towards law school so I am less in debt once I graduate.

[DYN4STY]

That's exactly what I want to do as well. I'd recommend Schulich. Much easier to obtain a higher average (you need a high GPA + good LSAT to get into law school) and ALOT cheaper than Queens + Ivey. If money isn't too big of an issue, than go for Queens.
Also, Schulich doesn't require calculus (which is the hardest from the 3 maths) so you should be able to hit a 90% average on the dot and get that instant scholarship.

However, in the end it all comes down to what YOU want. Go to all 3 universities and see which one suits you. You'd be surprised how many people switch universities after first year because they just don't like the community or how the university looks like. I've seen both Schulich and Queens, and I can say Queens is MUCH better... it's just (in my personal opinion) not worth it to go there (cost-wise). Law school is expensive, I figure I'm not going to waste so much money on an undergrad.. I might as well use that money towards law school so I am less in debt once I graduate.

looks like we're in the same boat. yeah for money wise and distance i wud pick schulich and for some reason i just think it wud be easier to excel in because all the uninformed ppl choose schulich first (just a feeling). and i jus checked its admission requirements and it said calculus is recommended over data but its not needed. as for ivey, u only need one math course. for queens i think you need 2 math (data and adv functions is ok)...

so with that being said, do any of these 3 programs actually require calculus?

[Sniper001]

looks like we're in the same boat. yeah for money wise and distance i wud pick schulich and for some reason i just think it wud be easier to excel in because all the uninformed ppl choose schulich first (just a feeling). and i jus checked its admission requirements and it said calculus is recommended over data but its not needed. as for ivey, u only need one math course. for queens i think you need 2 math (data and adv functions is ok)...

so with that being said, do any of these 3 programs actually require calculus?
Queens requires Calculus, Schulich does not. I'm not sure about Ivey since I haven't really looked into their program at all - it's not something I have bothered looking into since I know the tuition is way out of my reach. Other BBA/Commerce programs which are not top tier but worth considering are WLU (does not require calculus, but 2 math's) and UofT (does require calculus and one other math). Queens Commerce requires you to obtain an 80 in english, calculus, and your other math (ie. advanced functions). I, personally, am going to apply to Schulich, Laurier, UofT, and Queens (won't probably go to Queens because tuition is still expensive and it's very far from home). I have calculus second semester, so if I get an early admission into Laurier or Schulich (The universities where I really want to go), I'll drop calculus in second semester and focus on my other subjects. If I don't, than I'll keep calculus and work extra hard second semester. You might want to do the same, just to keep your options open.

Just to rank them as most competitive to least competitive:
Ivey > Queens > Schulich > Laurier > UofT.
Now, it is debatable which one is better (between Laurier and UofT), however, Laurier is particular known for its BBA program, and despite the fact that UofT does have a good Commerce program, it's not what the university is known for (and I am talking all about undergraduate degrees, postgrad is a totally different story). In addition, I've heard of many people (both personal friends and members from this forum) who have chosen Laurier over Schulich + UofT. (Because you also might want to remember Schulich's a bit over rated when it comes to their undergraduate program, it's particular known for its MBA program.)

It all comes down to personal choice, UofT doesn't particularly have the best "school atmosphere", which could play a factor of why people chose Laurier over UofT. In the end, to be honest, it doesn't matter what university you go to (from the ones I listed above), they are all great! It just comes down to how well you can perform in those universities to get the high marks you need to get into a good postgrad program (whether it be law school, an MBA, etc), because THAN it will matter what university you go too.

[adehbone]

Competitive or not who cares. There is atleast 5 people at WLU, who used to say "I got into Ivey/Queens, but I chose WLU!". I myself and others turned down SSB, for another school. Heck there is a whole facebook group I remember 2 years ago, with "I said no to AEO!". After second year, no one even talks about this crap.

Once you start doing internships, you see companies are full of people from all the top schools and all the happy folk chose the place where they fit best.

I would say apply to all of them, visit all of them, see how much $$$ each throws at you. Then decide. I mean I know people at WLU and SSB, who are basically paid to goto school there, and still make ridiculous money on their intenrships as well, talk about debt free....

[Treylakes]

If you want to get into law school then don't go for a competitive undergrad program.
Competitive program might get you bad GPA, and a bad GPA is a bad GPA no matter how competitive the program is.
You have a better shot at a good law school with a 4.0 GPA in B.A. Economics than with a 2.5 GPA in Schulich.

Don't Law Schools consider the difficulty of your undergrad program when admitting students?

[Time_Keeper]

Don't Law Schools consider the difficulty of your undergrad program when admitting students?

I think so. I think unlike med school/denistry/pharmacy, i think they look at your percentile of your graduating class like graduate schools.

[Sniper001]

Don't Law Schools consider the difficulty of your undergrad program when admitting students?
From my understanding, no, most (if not all) law schools do not. To them, a 70% at Ryerson is the same as a 70% at WLU and a 4.0 GPA as an arts student is the same as a 4.0 GPA as a commerce student.
That's why many people choose to go into easy undergrad programs, achieve high marks, study hard for the LSAT, and than get accepted into law school... (Which I probably wouldn't do because there are many complications with that. Ie. What the hell will you do if you do not get into law school, and if you do get accepted into law school, what do you do when you realize it's not for you and you can't take the stress?)

[Octavius]

Don't Law Schools consider the difficulty of your undergrad program when admitting students?

Some do (U of T is one that does), Most Don't.

I think so. I think unlike med school/denistry/pharmacy, i think they look at your percentile of your graduating class like graduate schools.

Nope, pointless and irrelevant to the admissions committee. You are being judged on what YOU have accomplished with respect to the rest of the applicant pool.

From my understanding, no, most (if not all) law schools do not. To them, a 70% at Ryerson is the same as a 70% at WLU and a 4.0 GPA as an arts student is the same as a 4.0 GPA as a commerce student.
That's why many people choose to go into easy undergrad programs, achieve high marks, study hard for the LSAT, and than get accepted into law school... (Which I probably wouldn't do because there are many complications with that. Ie. What the hell will you do if you do not get into law school, and if you do get accepted into law school, what do you do when you realize it's not for you and you can't take the stress?)

+1

Sniper001 has hit the nail right on the head. Generally speaking, it doesn't matter where you went or what program you did...make sure you do well in your courses and on the LSAT and you'll have a decent chance in getting in.

That being said...taking an easy program with easy courses isn't going to help you much when you prepare for the LSAT (frankly, I myself and finding it difficult and I didn't exactly take a cakewalk program for my degree program).

[anycee]

Math/bus DD on the UW side is fairly competitive.

WLU BBA isn't competitive when you are in the program. In fact, I think that is one of the great things about the school: most of the students aren't mark obsessed, and there is a really friendly, cordial attitude. The culture there is awesome.

[gadogry]

I'm in UW, and I heard that our Optometry program is pretty crazy. You do general science for the first two years, and then only a small fraction of them (like 1/5 or 1/10) get into real Optom in 3rd year, while others stay in general science (a program that generally leads to nothing, from what I heard).

I guess once you get into it you're fine, but the problem is sweating out the 2 years before that, and the risk of ending up with next to nothing.

[Time_Keeper]

I'm in UW, and I heard that our Optometry program is pretty crazy. You do general science for the first two years, and then only a small fraction of them (like 1/5 or 1/10) get into real Optom in 3rd year, while others stay in general science (a program that generally leads to nothing, from what I heard).

I guess once you get into it you're fine, but the problem is sweating out the 2 years before that, and the risk of ending up with next to nothing.

I thought optometry was professional school? Therefor, if you wants to to optom, you'd have to do your Ocats (or whatever their called). And if you didn't get in, you'd just finish out whatever program your in, whether its biological sciences, biochemistry or physics (for example).

[DYN4STY]

Some do (U of T is one that does), Most Don't.



Nope, pointless and irrelevant to the admissions committee. You are being judged on what YOU have accomplished with respect to the rest of the applicant pool.



+1

Sniper001 has hit the nail right on the head. Generally speaking, it doesn't matter where you went or what program you did...make sure you do well in your courses and on the LSAT and you'll have a decent chance in getting in.

That being said...taking an easy program with easy courses isn't going to help you much when you prepare for the LSAT (frankly, I myself and finding it difficult and I didn't exactly take a cakewalk program for my degree program).


ive been reading a lot about law school admissions and its still unclear.. so some schools look at what program youre in and some dont? which are the schools that do?

and for that matter, is it hard to attain a lawschool-worthy gpa in a commerce program? what are the chances of getting in?

[Octavius]

ive been reading a lot about law school admissions and its still unclear.. so some schools look at what program youre in and some dont? which are the schools that do?

and for that matter, is it hard to attain a lawschool-worthy gpa in a commerce program? what are the chances of getting in?

Some do, some don't. You can always just email the law schools that you are interested in attending and asking them...most of them are friendly and respond promptly whereas others not-so-much.

I didn't take a commerce program in University, although I did take a number of commerce classes and I didn't really have a problem with them. Frankly, it just comes down to hard work.

Your chances of getting in depend on your average and your LSAT score. A general rule is if you want to get in somewhere in Ontario, you'll need at LEAST an A- overall and a 160 on the LSAT (about 80%). These marks exclude Osgoode Hall (York) and U of T where competition is fierce and the entry stats are much MUCH higher.

The stats needed to get in outside of Ontario are a bit lower since the competition isn't as fierce. Don't think for a second that the law schools outside of Ontario are inferior though...they aren't. Generally speaking, wherever you end up going in Canada you'll get a good legal education. There aren't really "tiers" like there are in the United States.

That being said, Osgoode Hall, U of T and McGill are arguably the best law schools in the country.

[DYN4STY]

Some do, some don't. You can always just email the law schools that you are interested in attending and asking them...most of them are friendly and respond promptly whereas others not-so-much.

I didn't take a commerce program in University, although I did take a number of commerce classes and I didn't really have a problem with them. Frankly, it just comes down to hard work.

Your chances of getting in depend on your average and your LSAT score. A general rule is if you want to get in somewhere in Ontario, you'll need at LEAST an A- overall and a 160 on the LSAT (about 80%). These marks exclude Osgoode Hall (York) and U of T where competition is fierce and the entry stats are much MUCH higher.

The stats needed to get in outside of Ontario are a bit lower since the competition isn't as fierce. Don't think for a second that the law schools outside of Ontario are inferior though...they aren't. Generally speaking, wherever you end up going in Canada you'll get a good legal education. There aren't really "tiers" like there are in the United States.

That being said, Osgoode Hall, U of T and McGill are arguably the best law schools in the country.


great info. so what are u of t, osgoode and mcgills requirements? like 170 ?

as for the lsat, how hard is it get high marks?

[Octavius]

great info. so what are u of t, osgoode and mcgills requirements? like 170 ?

as for the lsat, how hard is it get high marks?

I don't remember, although I know U of T's is definitely around the 170 area and I'm fairly certain Osgoode is around there as well (friend of mine got into Osgoode with a 166 this past December, one of the first offers). I don't remember about McGill's, although they are the ONLY Common Law law school in Canada that doesn't require the LSAT for admission (except for Ottawa U's French LLB program...which doesn't count since it's exclusively French).

If you write the LSAT, McGill will consider it...but it isn't required for admission. If you do hope to get in without the LSAT, you'll need a VERY high average (overall of like 3.9/4.0, >85% overall) and you'll need to be fluent in French and to have a number of extracurriculars.

As for your question about how difficult the LSAT is...try it yourself (timed):

http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/2007-2008/SamplePTJune07.pdf

[UWO Engineer]

I don't remember, although I know U of T's is definitely around the 170 area and I'm fairly certain Osgoode is around there as well (friend of mine got into Osgoode with a 166 this past December, one of the first offers). I don't remember about McGill's, although they are the ONLY Common Law law school in Canada that doesn't require the LSAT for admission (except for Ottawa U's French LLB program...which doesn't count since it's exclusively French).

If you write the LSAT, McGill will consider it...but it isn't required for admission. If you do hope to get in without the LSAT, you'll need a VERY high average (overall of like 3.9/4.0, >85% overall) and you'll need to be fluent in French and to have a number of extracurriculars.

As for your question about how difficult the LSAT is...try it yourself (timed):

http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/2007-2008/SamplePTJune07.pdf

The median LSAT for last years entry class at Osgood was 160.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/canadian-law-school-rankings.html

That being said....Their tuition is 5,466/year. Go Osgood!

[Octavius]

The median LSAT for last years entry class at Osgood was 160.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/canadian-law-school-rankings.html

That being said....Their tuition is 5,466/year. Go Osgood!

Guess I was mistaken. Thanks for the link.

[DYN4STY]

I don't remember, although I know U of T's is definitely around the 170 area and I'm fairly certain Osgoode is around there as well (friend of mine got into Osgoode with a 166 this past December, one of the first offers). I don't remember about McGill's, although they are the ONLY Common Law law school in Canada that doesn't require the LSAT for admission (except for Ottawa U's French LLB program...which doesn't count since it's exclusively French).

If you write the LSAT, McGill will consider it...but it isn't required for admission. If you do hope to get in without the LSAT, you'll need a VERY high average (overall of like 3.9/4.0, >85% overall) and you'll need to be fluent in French and to have a number of extracurriculars.

As for your question about how difficult the LSAT is...try it yourself (timed):

http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/2007-2008/SamplePTJune07.pdf

sick i dint kno you could do the practice lsat online.. question tho

im jus entering grade 12, and this is the first time ive seen the lsat.. should i do it now without any studying to see how hard it is or should i study a bit? i dont wanna waste my one shot on this and not have another test to do.

and for the writing sample, is that needed to be done on this particular test? thanks

[Octavius]

sick i dint kno you could do the practice lsat online.. question tho

im jus entering grade 12, and this is the first time ive seen the lsat.. should i do it now without any studying to see how hard it is or should i study a bit? i dont wanna waste my one shot on this and not have another test to do.

and for the writing sample, is that needed to be done on this particular test? thanks

Don't worry about the writing sample - even on the real LSAT - it's unscored.

As for your "one and only shot" - it's just a PDF. You can purchase previous LSAT's from LSAC, Chapters or even Amazon. Even then, there's another 3-4 free LSAT's floating around on the internet somewhere...you just have to look for them.

I say write it timed (first four sections) just for fun to see how you'd do. Don't be surprised if you manage to do poorly or if you run out of time...the LSAT is intended for people who have already completed University.

I wouldn't bother studying for it since you're just in Grade 12. Just do it for fun to see what kind of crazy stuff they'll ask you and how they word the questions and answers in a way to make your head hurt.

[UWO Engineer]

sick i dint kno you could do the practice lsat online.. question tho

im jus entering grade 12, and this is the first time ive seen the lsat.. should i do it now without any studying to see how hard it is or should i study a bit? i dont wanna waste my one shot on this and not have another test to do.

and for the writing sample, is that needed to be done on this particular test? thanks

Take it whenever you have 3 hours to time and take it properly. As you dial into LSAT mode, down the line, you'll find out there's an abundance of resources for you to sort through; including 100s of old practice tests. What's important to note is that the LSAT has evolved overtime -- a result of changing times and a switch in the company that writes the LSAT.

I took the latest LSAT, at the time, when I was in grade 12 and scored a 155. It's something I took for fun but I stowed it under my pillow until I started to practice for the real thing.

And yes. The real LSAT has both an experimental section (a section which is not counted towards your score and is unknown to you) and a writing sample. Pay close attention to which is the experimental section and disregard the writing sample; the Law Schools receive an adequate representation of your writing in your submitted personal statement.

[Time_Keeper]

Ok, while we're on the topic of standardized tests (yes i know this is random from law school)

How about GRE tests?
For both the general and subject, when would someone suggest I take them?
3rd year?
During 4th?

[chrisc2]

sick i dint kno you could do the practice lsat online.. question tho

im jus entering grade 12, and this is the first time ive seen the lsat.. should i do it now without any studying to see how hard it is or should i study a bit? i dont wanna waste my one shot on this and not have another test to do.

and for the writing sample, is that needed to be done on this particular test? thanks


The tuition amt for Osgoode is definitely wrong - it's close to 15,000 now, not 5,000.

As for the LSAT - definitely do some studying before writing it. The writing same is easy. Ungraded, just take a position and argue it well. Most schools don't even look at it, unless they really can't decided between you and another person.