Anyone taking/have taken the LSAT?

[AirplaneKing]

I signed up today for the Feb 2009 session, wondering if anybody is currently taking it and would like to share study habits, problems, etc. And for anyone who has already taken it, how was your experience with it? What score did you get? If you could have done anything differently, what would it be?

So far I'm using Master the LSAT (for RC and the 4 full practice LSATs), Logic Games Bible, Logical Reasoning Bible, and 20 practice LSATs.

About a third through Logic Games Bible, and I'm struggling with making the subtle inferences with linear games...which is bad because they're the easiest ones :confused:

[Octavius]

I signed up today for the Feb 2009 session, wondering if anybody is currently taking it and would like to share study habits, problems, etc. And for anyone who has already taken it, how was your experience with it? What score did you get? If you could have done anything differently, what would it be?

So far I'm using Master the LSAT (for RC and the 4 full practice LSATs), Logic Games Bible, Logical Reasoning Bible, and 20 practice LSATs.

About a third through Logic Games Bible, and I'm struggling with making the subtle inferences with linear games...which is bad because they're the easiest ones :confused:

I'm writing in October, my study guides are exactly the same as yours.

[forgamez]

i ll be writing in October. Got 163 in June, but aiming for 170+. Made tons of stupid mistakes and the comparative reading section threw me for a loop.

Don't worry about the games. The Games bible is definitely the best tool out there for this section. The recent LSATs have really dialed down the difficulty in this section. I was struggling at first, but got only -1 in that section on the real test. Really this section became a joke.

I find that the only good books are the Bibles. All the other material has been frustrating because the questions are sometimes not representative of the real test.

Just do all of the real prep tests. There are like 50+ of them. With so much time until Feb. , you should be able to do all the tests twice over. Also, you must time yourself when practicing.

With adequate practice, I think most people should be able to get 160+ at minimum.

[Free Willy]

I'd planned to take the LSAT this summer, but decided to wait another year. It seems that the LR and LG Bibles from PowerScore are the most popular study materials. What was your diagnostic score, if you don't mind me asking? And you probably already know this, but I've found the forums at lawstudents.ca (http://www.lawstudents.ca/forums/), top-law-schools.com (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php) and lawschooldiscussion.org (http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/) to be very helpful.

[help_questions]

I think I am going to write in Oct. Studying will start in August.

[scottmcl]

What year of studies are you guys in? I was curious as to when most people take the LSTAT, and how long in advance they have to apply, and start studying.

I would guess 3rd year?

[help_questions]

What year of studies are you guys in? I was curious as to when most people take the LSTAT, and how long in advance they have to apply, and start studying.

I would guess 3rd year?


I also what to know how much in advance people start studying, as I plan to study all through August, but not so much when school starts in September...so maybe I shouldn't even be writing....

[UWO Engineer]

I'm taking it at the start of third year -- allows me ample time to re-take provided i get a low score -- allotting 5 months of practice time.

Go to http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php

More information then you could ever process lyes on that site. I've copied it down and stored it in folders in case the site goes down before I start practicing.

[help_questions]

I'm taking it at the start of third year -- allows me ample time to re-take provided i get a low score -- allotting 5 months of practice time.

Go to http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php

More information then you could ever process lyes on that site. I've copied it down and stored it in folders in case the site goes down before I start practicing.

what type of information did you copy and store?

[Free Willy]

what type of information did you copy and store?
The TLS forums hold an abundance of information, from explanations of LSAT answers to the pros and cons of individual law schools. There are plenty of 170-180 LSAT scorers who post there and everyone is pretty helpful for the most part. If you're looking for information specific to Canadian law schools, such as GPA calculations and admission criteria, try the lawstudents.ca forums that I linked to previously.

[AirplaneKing]

Sweet, thx for all the input guys. It's awesome to see other people journeying to get into law school.

forgamez - Yeah I plan to do as many timed practice tests as possible. Do you use the LSAT proctor DVD? I heard its worth the investment to get you used to the strict timing/noise/etc.

Free Willy - My cold diag score was 159. Unremarkable, but I'm confident I can up it to 170+ once I go through all the study guides and run at least two dozen timed tests. Also, RC bible will be coming out soon. I placed my pre-order, so hopefully that will cover all sections solid before I take the real thing.

scottmcl - I'm going into my third year of undergrad.

[help_questions]

anyone planning to take an LSAT course?

[Sniper001]

Sweet, thx for all the input guys. It's awesome to see other people journeying to get into law school.

forgamez - Yeah I plan to do as many timed practice tests as possible. Do you use the LSAT proctor DVD? I heard its worth the investment to get you used to the strict timing/noise/etc.

Free Willy - My cold diag score was 159. Unremarkable, but I'm confident I can up it to 170+ once I go through all the study guides and run at least two dozen timed tests. Also, RC bible will be coming out soon. I placed my pre-order, so hopefully that will cover all sections solid before I take the real thing.

scottmcl - I'm going into my third year of undergrad.
Hey, what undergrad are you currently taking and how are your marks like? (Just curious, you can PM me if you want it to be private.)

[Octavius]

anyone planning to take an LSAT course?

Doubtful.

Basically I've been studying (not too seriously) for the past month or so and I've got the full month before the October LSAT booked off...I plan on making full use of each and every day.

Still studying now...I'm hoping by September I can bring my LSAT scores to around 160. As of right now, I've still got A LOT of work to do =/

At least I have time on my hands...and if I'm really stuck I can postpone until December. I think most (if not all) law schools in Canada will take December as their latest scoring date for the following year. I'd really prefer not to postpone it though...I want to write it, and write it well the first time so I can not worry about this stuff again ;)

Don't think I'll need a course as the Bibles are fairly detailed. Some of the stuff I'm having a hard time grasping, but then again, nobody's perfect =P

Hey, what undergrad are you currently taking and how are your marks like? (Just curious, you can PM me if you want it to be private.)

My overall GPA is around a 3.2/4.0 (high B). Thankfully, there's a number of schools in Canada that focus exclusively on your last two years. My last two year's GPA is 3.8/4.0 (between an A- and an A, or around 83%). Those are the schools I'm hoping to get into

[AirplaneKing]

Hey Octavius, from what I've gathered, it is very beneficial to get in your applications asap, as most law school will start their admission process sometime in September or October. Early bird gets the worm, so study hard for that October LSAT man :cheesygri

[EbonyRose]

anyone planning to take an LSAT course?

When I took the LSAT last year, I took the Princeton Review course. If you like having structure, and someone to walk you through, it's a good investment. If you like to study on your own, then I'd just suggest getting a copy of the books from someone.

[jandumm]

hey all, wrote the LSAT in 2003 - scored in the 90% percentile. Didn't take any courses, just studied from the Kaplan books. I wrote it at George Brown College - the most intimidating part was writing it with 300 other people who were all spazzes ;)

I never ended up applying to law school :)

[AirplaneKing]

hey all, wrote the LSAT in 2003 - scored in the 90% percentile. Didn't take any courses, just studied from the Kaplan books. I wrote it at George Brown College - the most intimidating part was writing it with 300 other people who were all spazzes ;)

I never ended up applying to law school :)

Hahaha, that's pretty jokes. :cheesygri

Any advice for the uninitiated?

[VivienM]

Hey Octavius, from what I've gathered, it is very beneficial to get in your applications asap, as most law school will start their admission process sometime in September or October. Early bird gets the worm, so study hard for that October LSAT man :cheesygri

October LSAT? The first round admission decisions can be made by early-mid November... so I'd say June is a safer bet.

[Octavius]

October LSAT? The first round admission decisions can be made by early-mid November... so I'd say June is a safer bet.

If I could have written it in June, I would have. Certainly would have allowed me to get a nice head start with my applications now. I knew that my chances would be lowered by waiting until October...but not lowered as much as a poor LSAT score.

Deadlines for applications are November 1st for most (if not all) schools in Ontario and most (if not all schools) will accept December LSAT's. It is true that early admissions offers are granted in November/December, but the vast majority of them in Ontario occur in January/February. Hopefully I do well enough in October so I won't have to write it again =P

[VivienM]

If I could have written it in June, I would have. Certainly would have allowed me to get a nice head start with my applications now. I knew that my chances would be lowered by waiting until October...but not lowered as much as a poor LSAT score.

Deadlines for applications are November 1st for most (if not all) schools in Ontario and most (if not all schools) will accept December LSAT's. It is true that early admissions offers are granted in November/December, but the vast majority of them in Ontario occur in January/February. Hopefully I do well enough in October so I won't have to write it again =P

Note that I said decisions. The formal offers may be sent out in January, but the schools have made up their minds about some people far earlier...

That being said, October is far, far wiser than December. If you write LSAT in December, you are in a seriously bad position, even if the schools officially claim they'll take Dec. LSAT results.

[Octavius]

Note that I said decisions. The formal offers may be sent out in January, but the schools have made up their minds about some people far earlier...

That being said, October is far, far wiser than December. If you write LSAT in December, you are in a seriously bad position, even if the schools officially claim they'll take Dec. LSAT results.

Agreed. I WILL be ready for the October LSAT. I'll only be writing in December if:

1) My practice tests a week before the October LSAT are consistently <155 and continue to be that way up to the big day

2) I wrote the October LSAT and I didn't do all that well on it

I know that the earlier my file becomes "complete", the greater my chances are of getting in somewhere.

Here's hoping the next few months work out for me :|

[VivienM]

Agreed. I WILL be ready for the October LSAT. I'll only be writing in December if:

1) My practice tests a week before the October LSAT are consistently <155 and continue to be that way up to the big day

2) I wrote the October LSAT and I didn't do all that well on it

I know that the earlier my file becomes "complete", the greater my chances are of getting in somewhere.

Here's hoping the next few months work out for me :|

Hmmmm... all I can say is, don't worry about LSAT too, too, too much. It's August right now (kinda). If you spend a couple of hours on LSAT every day, you should be ready by Labour Day, let alone October...

[Octavius]

Hmmmm... all I can say is, don't worry about LSAT too, too, too much. It's August right now (kinda). If you spend a couple of hours on LSAT every day, you should be ready by Labour Day, let alone October...

I've actually been studying since the beginning of this month. My diagnostic score was so disgusting that I'm not even going to bother writing it here (yes, it was that bad). This is why I've been putting so much work into this bloody test and giving up my summer. So far, things are slowly getting better.

Anywho, people have given me the same advice (don't worry too much). I've been careful with not burning myself out with this...I make sure I do 2-3 hours a night of studying while also ensuring that I take 1-2 nights a week off to relax.

Thanks for the advice :)

[help_questions]

I've got some questions about LSAT that I am sure others here are curious about. I posted them at lawstudents.ca and didn't get a response.

1) in regards to asking for references:

Let's say I want to apply to all 14 schools....is it reasonable to ask one professor for all of those references. I realize that some schools will require a specialized form, and other just a letter. But is it expected that I would hit up one professor for all of my applications?


2) does anyone see a benefit in taking two prep courses?


3) Is there somewhere official that cites the policy on dealing with failed grades and course repeats when calculating GPA for LSAC?

Does the university's undergrad policy about CGPA and fails not counting towards GPA mean anything when applying to law school?


4) Prep courses-which is the best one? From what I have read, Powerscore is the best. What do RFDers think.


Hopefully, someone has the answers.

[Octavius]

I've got some questions about LSAT that I am sure others here are curious about. I posted them at lawstudents.ca and didn't get a response.

1) in regards to asking for references:

Let's say I want to apply to all 14 schools....is it reasonable to ask one professor for all of those references. I realize that some schools will require a specialized form, and other just a letter. But is it expected that I would hit up one professor for all of my applications?


2) does anyone see a benefit in taking two prep courses?


3) Is there somewhere official that cites the policy on dealing with failed grades and course repeats when calculating GPA for LSAC?

Does the university's undergrad policy about CGPA and fails not counting towards GPA mean anything when applying to law school?


4) Prep courses-which is the best one? From what I have read, Powerscore is the best. What do RFDers think.


Hopefully, someone has the answers.

1) So long as you give the prof enough notice about your intentions and so long as you get the paperwork to them with plenty of time to spare (you're not the only one asking them for references for law school/grad school), then I don't think they'll mind.

2) I see a benefit in taking a prep course if the self study doesn't work out. I see a benefit in taking a 2nd prep course if the first one was unhelpful or useless.

Considering the cost involved with them, I would look long and hard at your situation before jumping in. I personally decided to sign up a few days ago for an LSAT prep course that runs from mid-august until 4 days before the October LSAT. Although it appears as though I am getting better at self study, there are some things I simply will not understand unless I am taught it (it's the way I learn things).

3) LSAC doesn't care about your GPA unless you're applying to US Law Schools. In Canada, each school has their own policy regarding what courses they drop (if any). Here's a quick run down of the ones I know off the top of my head:

- U of A takes last 2 years (Last 10 Credits)
- U of C takes last 2 years (Last 10 Credits) and uses "holistic" approach
- U of S takes a mixed best 2 years and overall gpa
- Queens looks at last two years for admission, overall GPA for sorting applicants
- Western takes last 2 years (I think a practice similar to Queens is used)
- U of O looks at ALL your years and uses "holistic" approach
- U Windsor looks at ALL your years and uses "holistic" approach - heavy emphasis on "soft" factors
- U of T takes last 3 years
- Osgoode Hall (York) takes last 3 years if you get 160 on the LSAT (although I believe they changed it this year)
- Dalhousie takes last 2 years (Last 10 Credits) or overall GPA, whichever is higher
- U New Brunswick drops 25% of lowers marks, then calculates your GPA

UBC and UVic also drop a certain number of classes, but I can't remember the number. If your F or low mark is within the two year period (or 3) that the schools who focus on the last two years (or 3) look at, they will include that F in their calculation. For the schools that look at all your marks, you're SOL, that F will be used in their calculations.

All schools will see your F regardless though.

4) There is no "best" prep course, as it's subjective based on the person. If I was in TO, I would take the powerscore one as their bibles are fantastic and I've heard great things about their course...but unfortunately, the only prep course available in my area is Kaplan. I've still heard some good things, and I'm willing to gamble on getting better with it...but I wish I had more options.

[VivienM]

1) in regards to asking for references:

Let's say I want to apply to all 14 schools....is it reasonable to ask one professor for all of those references. I realize that some schools will require a specialized form, and other just a letter. But is it expected that I would hit up one professor for all of my applications?

For Ontario schools, it's a single reference form.

Why exactly are you looking at applying to 14 schools?! Just HOW many law schools are there in this country, anyways?

2) does anyone see a benefit in taking two prep courses?

No. I'd even suggest against spending the money on one.

3) Is there somewhere official that cites the policy on dealing with failed grades and course repeats when calculating GPA for LSAC?

LSAC doesn't care about your grades (if you're applying to Canadian schools); the individual schools do...

Their policies may or may not be listed on their web sites.

Does the university's undergrad policy about CGPA and fails not counting towards GPA mean anything when applying to law school?

Dunno. For some weird reason, I've never gone to a school that calculates GPAs...

4) Prep courses-which is the best one? From what I have read, Powerscore is the best. What do RFDers think

See above.

[Asad_A203]

Ah i just made a new thread without looking. Sorry guys :cheesygri ! I will copy and paste my post; haha.

[Asad_A203]

My study routine right now is:

Kaplan Approach to the LSAT 2009 Edition (1 hour a day)
Powerscore Logic Games Bible (1 hour a day)
Once a week; a timed test from the Next, 10 Actual LSAT games

I have to say; DO NOT buy Kaplan!! After reading one section of the Logic Games Bible I AM 400% more positive in my skills than the entire section on Logic Games in Kaplan. I would have been highly unprepared if I solely used Kaplan and am having my doubts about its other sections (the Reading Comp is my huge weakness and Kaplan section is useless on this). I also purchased the ebook Mastering the LSAT which I have found to be better for a general guide as opposed to Kaplan. The main reason I am utilizing Kaplan is for the test and the study outline.

I will be making my next purchase of the Logical Reasoning Bible and Reading Comprehension Bible by Powerscore; highly recommended. I am looking at 165-169 score so I really need to know everything.

One tip I found very useful which might come in handy for someone is that some of the answer choices in some of the Logic Games can be used as a hypothetical situation for another question. Example would be one question asking:

"All orders are not possible EXCEPT"

and after you do your game and find the right answer to be something like: "KHJYX"; you can use this "KHJYX" for the next question as a hypothetical situation. It will hopefully cut down on the time and at least eliminate some of the questions. Kinda simple logic but some people (like me) wouldn't have seen this.

[Asad_A203]

hey all, wrote the LSAT in 2003 - scored in the 90% percentile. Didn't take any courses, just studied from the Kaplan books. I wrote it at George Brown College - the most intimidating part was writing it with 300 other people who were all spazzes ;)

I never ended up applying to law school :)

Really just Kaplan Books? I found them to really suck in comparision to Powerscore but I guess different approach for different people.

[help_questions]

VivienM and Octavius...thanks for responding.

Octavius, when you suggest the powerscore course, are you suggesting the full course, or the weekend intensive course?

[Octavius]

VivienM and Octavius...thanks for responding.

Octavius, when you suggest the powerscore course, are you suggesting the full course, or the weekend intensive course?

I've heard from people who took either or that they were fantastic. Again, if it was offered in my area I'd gladly take the full course since their bible explains a lot (and unfortunately I don't get about 1/4-1/2 of it sometimes).

People who aren't willing to drop the cash should still consider the weekend course. I know people who were having a fair bit of trouble with games/logical reasoning and they said that just the weekend prep course really helped them out.

I personally am not leaving anything to chance. I'm going through both bibles before my Kaplan prep-course begins on the 19th...then I'll learn whatever Kaplan teaches me and I'll use whatever method works best from the two ways I've been taught.

The course ends 4 days before the October LSAT (which I will be taking) and the material should still be very fresh in my mind at that point. I figure that's the best time to write it.

[Octavius]

Really just Kaplan Books? I found them to really suck in comparision to Powerscore but I guess different approach for different people.

Actually, I noticed that when I focused exclusively on the Powerscore Logical Reasoning bible...although I was learning a lot more, my score didn't seem to jump much from my diagnostic.

It was only AFTER I started using the Kaplan book in conjunction with the LR Bible did I finally notice an improvement.

I think combined they offer great resources to individuals for the LSAT...both have their strengths although I do agree that the Bibles are substantially better.

[help_questions]

so when people are listing their stats in the popular law forums, as mentioned earlier in this thread, are they citing their GPA for the 4.5 scale? I think so. If that is the case, does that mean that law school admission GPA is based on the 4.5 scale?

[help_questions]

I've heard from people who took either or that they were fantastic. Again, if it was offered in my area I'd gladly take the full course since their bible explains a lot (and unfortunately I don't get about 1/4-1/2 of it sometimes).

People who aren't willing to drop the cash should still consider the weekend course. I know people who were having a fair bit of trouble with games/logical reasoning and they said that just the weekend prep course really helped them out.

I personally am not leaving anything to chance. I'm going through both bibles before my Kaplan prep-course begins on the 19th...then I'll learn whatever Kaplan teaches me and I'll use whatever method works best from the two ways I've been taught.

The course ends 4 days before the October LSAT (which I will be taking) and the material should still be very fresh in my mind at that point. I figure that's the best time to write it.


thanks for your feedback....i am a bit hesitant about the weekend course, because there isn't a test.....just two days of class. I was going to sign up for the full course, but realized that that could hurt my marks for the school year, and therefore be counter productive to the overall goal of studying law. I am taking 120% course load this year, but since I would be only juggling the Powerscore class with my courses at school for the first month, I was thinking to try and be superman. I think I have decided to not take the chance, and just do the weekend course. It's good to know that you've heard that there is value in the weekend course.


FYI - for anyone interested in the powercourse in Toronto, on Friday morning, there were 9 spots left.

[Octavius]

so when people are listing their stats in the popular law forums, as mentioned earlier in this thread, are they citing their GPA for the 4.5 scale? I think so. If that is the case, does that mean that law school admission GPA is based on the 4.5 scale?

Most people cite their GPA on the 4.0 scale since that is more-or-less the universal standard.

It's not too difficult to convert your X score into 4.0...I think OLSAS or OMSAS has a chart on what each school's conversion rate is.

[Octavius]

thanks for your feedback....i am a bit hesitant about the weekend course, because there isn't a test.....just two days of class. I was going to sign up for the full course, but realized that that could hurt my marks for the school year, and therefore be counter productive to the overall goal of studying law. I am taking 120% course load this year, but since I would be only juggling the Powerscore class with my courses at school for the first month, I was thinking to try and be superman. I think I have decided to not take the chance, and just do the weekend course. It's good to know that you've heard that there is value in the weekend course.


FYI - for anyone interested in the powercourse in Toronto, on Friday morning, there were 9 spots left.

Only reason why I'm taking a course (aside from the fact that I hope to do well on the LSAT...better than I can likely do on my own with the time frame left) is because I'm completely done school. I've got a full time job now and I've already arranged for 4/6 weeks off that the prep course will be occurring (so I will have as few distractions as possible during the course).

I've taken an overloaded year + volunteering + part time work (25~ish hours a week) and I can honestly tell you that it was hell. There was SO much to do in the day and just not enough time to do it in. I was (and more or less still am) surviving on 4-5 hours a sleep per night Mon-Fri. Trying to add a full blown LSAT prep course to the mix and be able to get something out of it would be pretty close to impossible.

On a side note, most of my friends that did take the powerscore weekend prep studied immensely prior to taking it and said they got a lot out of it. If you haven't already started studying, I'd suggest you begin immediately.

Best of Luck (to the both of us) :)

[help_questions]

Most people cite their GPA on the 4.0 scale since that is more-or-less the universal standard.

It's not too difficult to convert your X score into 4.0...I think OLSAS or OMSAS has a chart on what each school's conversion rate is.

oh.

I get intimidated when people on lawstudents.ca cite their GPA at 3.5 and are worried about getting it. 3.5/4 scares me.....3.5/4.5 gives me hope.

At what GPA range do you think would disqualify one from law school, assuming a LSAT of 155-160?

From what I've read, 160 and a 3.2 GPA isn't even a lock for admission. Again, that goes back to the scale that is used.

[VivienM]

oh.

I get intimidated when people on lawstudents.ca cite their GPA at 3.5 and are worried about getting it. 3.5/4 scares me.....3.5/4.5 gives me hope.

At what GPA range do you think would disqualify one from law school, assuming a LSAT of 155-160?

From what I've read, 160 and a 3.2 GPA isn't even a lock for admission. Again, that goes back to the scale that is used.

I think people tend to focus far too much on numbers.

Speaking only about the law school I went to, I think they care about as much about WHAT (and WHERE) you were doing than what your grades were while doing it. And they do read those pesky personal statements...

Honestly, if you're concerned about your chances of getting in, you may just want to call the admissions office at your top choice school. In my experience, they'll happily review your materials and give you some idea of how likely you are to get an offer. And I suspect that if they know you really want to go there, that may increase your chances a bit too...

[Octavius]

I think people tend to focus far too much on numbers.

Speaking only about the law school I went to, I think they care about as much about WHAT (and WHERE) you were doing than what your grades were while doing it. And they do read those pesky personal statements...

Honestly, if you're concerned about your chances of getting in, you may just want to call the admissions office at your top choice school. In my experience, they'll happily review your materials and give you some idea of how likely you are to get an offer. And I suspect that if they know you really want to go there, that may increase your chances a bit too...

+1

Gotta agree with you there. I've personally called and emailed the top 3 schools that I hope to get into a few times regarding some questions I've had and they seem to be more than happy to get back to me with responses.

*MOST* law schools I've talked to or emailed have been helpful and quick in responding to my questions...whereas others seemed like they had much better things to do. Those are the schools I've put near the bottom of my list in terms of where I'd go if given an offer...if someone in an office can't properly and respectfully respond to questions regarding a program that their office takes care of, what does that say about their administration and how they view students?

I will, however, go to any school that accepts me :)

I think the reason why help_questions and myself are so focused on numbers is because Law Schools are generally a numbers game. Sure, there are other factors that they consider in their decision to grant you an offer or not...but just to get to that point usually you need some decent stats unless you've got some pretty outstanding extracurriculars (like saving a village in Africa :lol: ).

Competition based on numbers is the easiest to determine where you stand with respect to the other 2800 applicants that applied to the same school you did (all for 160 spots or so). Having a 160 will surely increase your chances than having a 155.

That being said, I have yet to go through the admissions process so most of this may not be accurate or correct...however I have asked many schools a lot of questions regarding the process and I have combed a number of law school forums with a fine pick to get as much information as I could.

To Help_Questions: A 3.2 GPA is a bit on the low side...but keep in mind that a number of schools will look ONLY at your last two years in their determination for granting you admission. If you're going into your third (or even fourth year), there's still time to bring your last two year average up.

My overall GPA is around a 3.24 due to some not-so-good work attitudes that I had in my first three years. I straightened up and I averaged a 3.9 in my fourth year and a 3.7 in my fifth year (went back to do an extra year knowing my third+fourth year marks wouldn't cut it for admission). So although my overall is a 3.24, my last two year average is a 3.8.

There's still time to fix your GPA...the only problem is you have to put school 100% first (which I had to do, was kind of difficult to be honest but it worked out) AND it also lowers the number of law schools that you can have a reasonable chance at getting into.

[VivienM]

Competition based on numbers is the easiest to determine where you stand with respect to the other 2800 applicants that applied to the same school you did (all for 160 spots or so). Having a 160 will surely increase your chances than having a 155.


2800??????

I must really be a dinosaur. When I applied to law school 4 years ago, I thought most of the Ontario schools got about 1800 applications...

OLSAS gets something like 2200-2300 applications/year, I thought. There are over 1000 law school spots in Ontario - probably more like 1100-1200.

Suddenly the odds are a lot less daunting, no? :)

[Octavius]

2800??????

I must really be a dinosaur. When I applied to law school 4 years ago, I thought most of the Ontario schools got about 1800 applications...

OLSAS gets something like 2200-2300 applications/year, I thought. There are over 1000 law school spots in Ontario - probably more like 1100-1200.

Suddenly the odds are a lot less daunting, no? :)

I'm actually such a nerd that I made a chart last year (can't find the proper link for the OLSAS stas for 2008...but it's definitely on the net somewhere)

Ottawa U: 200/3100
Queens: 160/2800 - As per my previous post
Osgoode: 290/2428
U of T: 185/1900
Western: 165/2500
Windsor: 190/1851
Dal: 156/1400
New Brunswick: 80/840
McGill: 170/1507
U of Sask: 116/1000
U of A: 175/1250
U of C: 100/930
U of Manitoba: 101/900
UBC: 209/1944
UVic: 105/1200

Number of People Accepted / Total Applicants - Give or Take

Total Number of Spots in Ontario: 1190 Accepted / 14579 Total Applied (8.16% Admission Rate)

My estimate of 2800 was a tad bit high for some Ontario schools, but not others =P

Doesn't take into account how many OFFERS they made...just the number of people who firmly accepted and went the first week of school.

[VivienM]

Ottawa U: 200/3100
Queens: 160/2800 - As per my previous post
Osgoode: 290/2428

Check those numbers. I have real difficulty believing that almost 400 more people applied to Queen's when Osgoode has almost twice as many spots.

1900 for U of T sounds dead on; same with 2428 for Osgoode. But 3100 for Ottawa?!?


Total Number of Spots in Ontario: 1190 Accepted / 14579 Total Applied (8.16% Admission Rate)

You do realize that you're counting some people 4-6 times in your 14579, right? :)

There aren't actually 14579 HUMAN BEINGS applying. There's probably about 3500 at most, assuming your Queen's/Ottawa numbers are right (which I must say I doubt).

Doesn't take into account how many OFFERS they made...just the number of people who firmly accepted and went the first week of school.

They used to publish statistics about offers, too, I think...

[Octavius]

Check those numbers. I have real difficulty believing that almost 400 more people applied to Queen's when Osgoode has almost twice as many spots.

1900 for U of T sounds dead on; same with 2428 for Osgoode. But 3100 for Ottawa?!?



You do realize that you're counting some people 4-6 times in your 14579, right? :)

There aren't actually 14579 HUMAN BEINGS applying. There's probably about 3500 at most, assuming your Queen's/Ottawa numbers are right (which I must say I doubt).



They used to publish statistics about offers, too, I think...

http://www.elmwood.ca/documents/students/ontario_lawschool_requirements.pdf

Basically linked from OLSAS...Ottawa U actually had 3400 Applicants for the 2008 year competing for 200 spots. As previously stated, my numbers were compiled last year...the PDF above is the stats for the 2008 year (this year).

Yes, I am fully aware that there aren't 14,000 different people applying in Ontario to the various law schools in the province. I was using it more in terms of a comparison (number of applications -> number of people enrolled in first year).

[VivienM]

http://www.elmwood.ca/documents/students/ontario_lawschool_requirements.pdf

Basically linked from OLSAS...Ottawa U actually had 3400 Applicants for the 2008 year competing for 200 spots. As previously stated, my numbers were compiled last year...the PDF above is the stats for the 2008 year (this year).

Okay, I don't get it. WHY is Ottawa so much more in demand? Or... are they combining civil and common law in those numbers?

It's weird how my own school is one of the least in demand...

Yes, I am fully aware that there aren't 14,000 different people applying in Ontario to the various law schools in the province. I was using it more in terms of a comparison (number of applications -> number of people enrolled in first year).

But that's only going to make you feel depressed.

By YOUR numbers, 8% of people seem to get into an Ontario law school. If you look at the numbers MY way and assume 3500 OLSAS applicants (and nobody going to a school outside Ontario), about 31% of people will be SOMEWHERE in September. That, of course, assumes every one of the 3500 applicants actually wants to go to law school - it may shock you because you're in a 'must-get-in-or-my-life-is-over' mindset, but there ARE people who apply, who are admitted, and who turn it down. There are also people who get offers in July... and you know what, in December when they'll be frantically panicking about exams like every other 1L, they won't even remember that they got their offer in July and their friend got his/hers in December. :)

I'd guess more like 35-40% of people who want to go to law school get into a law program somewhere...

[help_questions]

Octavius - you say 3.2 is low.....3.2/4=80%.....that is low? I'm gonna have no life for the next two years if that is the case.

Anyway, I did a cold diagnostic, and scored a 133....
has anyone here ever started THAT low and pulled up to the high 160's?

[Octavius]

Octavius - you say 3.2 is low.....3.2/4=80%.....that is low? I'm gonna have no life for the next two years if that is the case.

Anyway, I did a cold diagnostic, and scored a 133....
has anyone here ever started THAT low and pulled up to the high 160's?

3.2/4 is not 80%...the 4.0 GPA scale doesn't work that way.

Basically, here is a ROUGH conversion:

3.0/4.0 = B (74%-76%)
3.3/4.0 = B+ (77%-79%)
3.7/4.0 = A- (80%-84%)
3.9/4.0 = A (85%-89%)
4.0/4.0 = A+ (90%-100%).

Basically, my 3.23 OVERALL GPA is around a 76.4% or something like that...but my last two years works out to a 3.8 GPA, which works out to something like 83% or so.

133 is fairly low...but it's a cold diagnostic with 0 prep. I wouldn't be discouraged by it too much...start hitting the books and get ready for your course (if you are taking one). Thankfully, most (if not all) of the LSAT courses offer a "Higher Score Guarantee" which means if you don't improve from your first diagnostic score on the real LSAT, you'll either get your money back or you'll be allowed to take the course again for free a second time. Unfortunately, a 1 point increase (which anyone can do by chance) would mean that the makers of the course "did their job" and you would not be offered either of these benefits. Still, it's better than nothing.

As for getting into the high 160's from the low 130's, that would be difficult for anyone...but again, it's your first cold diagnostic. My diagnostic was higher than yours (higher than 140, but less than 150), but it was still unacceptable by my standards. I'm hoping to HIT 160 on the real test...and this alone will take me a lot of work.

Don't be discouraged, all things worth it in life are worth working hard for! :)

[VivienM]

Anyway, I did a cold diagnostic, and scored a 133....
has anyone here ever started THAT low and pulled up to the high 160's?

The thing about LSAT is this: like a law school exam, efficient use of time is everything. Anybody can get a perfect LSAT score - if they have two or three times the normal amount of time.

So, the reason you need practice is that as you practice, you get faster at doing it, and the faster you are, the more questions you can answer in the given time, and assuming your accuracy doesn't go down the toilet, the more questions you get right. :)

[help_questions]

3.2/4 is not 80%...the 4.0 GPA scale doesn't work that way.

Basically, here is a ROUGH conversion:

3.0/4.0 = B (74%-76%)
3.3/4.0 = B+ (77%-79%)
3.7/4.0 = A- (80%-84%)
3.9/4.0 = A (85%-89%)
4.0/4.0 = A+ (90%-100%).

Basically, my 3.23 OVERALL GPA is around a 76.4% or something like that...but my last two years works out to a 3.8 GPA, which works out to something like 83% or so.


so when converting to the 4.0 scale from York's 9 point scale, am I to use the chart that I have seen floating around the internet based on what York assigns, or do I use the actual grade.

I ask because, for example, I got an 85 in a class, and according to York, 80-89 is an A. But if re-calculated as per the assigned grade, that 85 would be a 3.9 on the 4.0 scale, but if you look at the A York assigns, it could be a 3.7

I hope the above also makes sense.

You also mentioned in a previous post that I should consider calling admission offices' to inquire about myself as a candidate...when you did this, did they review your materials in person, or did you send them in?

[Octavius]

so when converting to the 4.0 scale from York's 9 point scale, am I to use the chart that I have seen floating around the internet based on what York assigns, or do I use the actual grade.

I ask because, for example, I got an 85 in a class, and according to York, 80-89 is an A. But if re-calculated as per the assigned grade, that 85 would be a 3.9 on the 4.0 scale, but if you look at the A York assigns, it could be a 3.7

I hope the above also makes sense.

You also mentioned in a previous post that I should consider calling admission offices' to inquire about myself as a candidate...when you did this, did they review your materials in person, or did you send them in?

You're better off using the chart that's floating around the internet...that's what the admissions committee will use.

Some schools convert letter grades into percentages whereas others do not. Some will consider the actual number you get in class, others will not. I would say that they would convert your scores into the scores that their respective schools use...but don't quote me on this.

I know that Dal changes GPA letters into percentages in order to evaluate an applicant...I would imagine that most schools would exercise similar practices in order for them to have a better objective view of all the applicants (as in, convert the scale at your school into theirs for admissions purposes).

I didn't send anything when asking about my chances...I simply called up admissions and said "I was wondering if you could give me a bit of insight, I'm considering applying for law school but before I go through the whole process I was wondering if I even had a chance...do you think you could give me an honest opinion...taking into account the fact that each year is different in terms of who/what is accepted and what isn't?"

And then I'd give them my GPA and LSAT score. Since I haven't written the LSAT, I asked them what the lowest score was that would give me a reasonable chance of being accepted at that particular school.

[VivienM]

You also mentioned in a previous post that I should consider calling admission offices' to inquire about myself as a candidate...when you did this, did they review your materials in person, or did you send them in?

In my case, they asked for the materials to be emailed...

[help_questions]

Octavius and VivienM....thanks again for your responses.


You're better off using the chart that's floating around the internet...that's what the admissions committee will use.


If anyone is interested, the conversion chart is located in:
http://www.ouac.on.ca/olsas/pdf/c_olsas_b.pdf

[Asad_A203]

I did my diagnostic test today; only really studying Logic Games (50% done the Logic Games Bible); and I scored a 159 (69% raw).

I have an average of 6X% in the other segments but a nice 75-78% in Logic Games. My time is still off (I averaged about 11 mins per game as opposed to 8 mins 45 secs).

U of M you only need a 165+ for guranteed admission so I am hoping after the Logical Reasoning Bible and Reading Comp bible I can bump my score to around there.

Any tips you guys have for cutting down time?

[trustomega]

Anyone want a copy of the Lsat from princeton review pm me

[help_questions]

I am thinking of purchasing:
-the PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible
the PowerScore LSAT Logical Reasoning Bible
-the PowerScore LSAT Reading Comprehension Bible
-the PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible Flashcards.

If anyone has any feedback about any of the above items, please share.

[mit006]

there's a powerscore RC bible now?

[help_questions]

there's a powerscore RC bible now?

they are taking pre-orders for the September 5 release

[Sniper001]

I am thinking of purchasing:
-the PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible
the PowerScore LSAT Logical Reasoning Bible
-the PowerScore LSAT Reading Comprehension Bible
-the PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible Flashcards.

If anyone has any feedback about any of the above items, please share.
Read above, many of the posters have said that Powerscore is the way to go. I'd definetly recommend these 2 books:
1) The PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible
2) The PowerScore LSAT Logical Reasoning Bible

I'm finishing high school, but I currently own those 2 books and have browsed them (particularly the logic games bible)... they are pretty good material and are a MUST when coming to studying for the LSAT. That combined with doing past LSAT's should be sufficient enough. If not (and you will know this by your results when you do past LSAT's), you should invest in an LSAT prep-course (Princeton review, kaplan, etc.)

[help_questions]

I was wondering what is a good type of EC to get my self involved with?

Is being a general member of a undergrad club enough, or is it all about attaining executive positions?

[penquinbum]

Years ago I did the LSAT, not sure if I was going into Law or not. I also did the GMAT and the GRE! (I really wasn't sure!). The basics of the tests are similar and nothing prepares you like doing the real thing. I found that writing the GRE helped me with my timing, question reading and gave me a lot of confidence when I wrote the LSAT. I did well enough on it to get into law school but ended up doing my Masters in the US and never got back to Law school. Hence, and other people may have different opinions on this...writing the GRE and/or the GMAT may be (The GRE may be better as it is less mathy than the GMAT) good preparation tools for the LSAT. Good luck!!:)

[VivienM]

I was wondering what is a good type of EC to get my self involved with?

Is being a general member of a undergrad club enough, or is it all about attaining executive positions?

Law schools (and employers) love to see some evidence of leadership skills...

[help_questions]

Law schools (and employers) love to see some evidence of leadership skills...

thanks for your response.

I've got work experience as a team leader/team manager, so I figure my work experience and references will verify my leadership skills..

I am concerned about my EC's, as I feel I have NONE currently...so lets say I am not able to attain a leadership in one of my school's clubs....Is being a general member of a club or organization worth anything on my application?

Any suggestions on what I can take on to enhance the EC aspect of my profile (once I confirm that I have failed to attain a leadership position)?

Thanks!

[mit006]

To those that have taken LSAT prepatory courses...

which in your opinion is/are the best? (please sustantiate that opinion as well)

thanks.

(Kaplan, Princeton Review, Powerscore, Testmasters, Prep101, Richardsons, others?)

[help_questions]

I've got work experience as a team leader/team manager, so I figure my work experience and references will verify my leadership skills..

I am concerned about my EC's, as I feel I have NONE currently...so lets say I am not able to attain a leadership in one of my school's clubs....Is being a general member of a club or organization worth anything on my application?

Any suggestions on what I can take on to enhance the EC aspect of my profile (once I confirm that I have failed to attain a leadership position)?
Should I bother putting time into begin a general member of a club?

Thanks!

bump.....

also, I wrote a mock LSAT this weekend.....some people showed up after all the scantron sheets had been accounted for, so they had to leave. One girl shows up at 9:12am(12 mins late) and gets pissed that she cant write the mock LSAT.....she starts this argument with the person in charge, and leaves all pissed off....while I did feel a bit bad for her, it is her own fault for being late.

and then at the end, these two goofballs are filling in the scantron sheet after all the time is over. they are asked to stop, but respond that they are done answering the questions, and are filling in the scantron sheet.

Don't people know anything about the real LSAT.....you don't come late, and time is up when they say time is up....

just wanted to share my interesting Saturday morning story

[Octavius]

bump.....

also, I wrote a mock LSAT this weekend.....some people showed up after all the scantron sheets had been accounted for, so they had to leave. One girl shows up at 9:12am(12 mins late) and gets pissed that she cant write the mock LSAT.....she starts this argument with the person in charge, and leaves all pissed off....while I did feel a bit bad for her, it is her own fault for being late.

and then at the end, these two goofballs are filling in the scantron sheet after all the time is over. they are asked to stop, but respond that they are done answering the questions, and are filling in the scantron sheet.

Don't people know anything about the real LSAT.....you don't come late, and time is up when they say time is up....

just wanted to share my interesting Saturday morning story

Cute.

If they did this at the real LSAT, they would have their test materials removed from them, LSAC would cancel their score and report to any schools that they applied to that the score was canceled due to cheating.

EDIT: As for your EC's, spend time doing stuff that you take an interest in. Your GPA and LSAT score (holistic schools exempted) are your most important factors in determining your acceptance.

[VivienM]

also, I wrote a mock LSAT this weekend.....some people showed up after all the scantron sheets had been accounted for, so they had to leave. One girl shows up at 9:12am(12 mins late) and gets pissed that she cant write the mock LSAT.....she starts this argument with the person in charge, and leaves all pissed off....while I did feel a bit bad for her, it is her own fault for being late.

and then at the end, these two goofballs are filling in the scantron sheet after all the time is over. they are asked to stop, but respond that they are done answering the questions, and are filling in the scantron sheet.

Don't people know anything about the real LSAT.....you don't come late, and time is up when they say time is up....

just wanted to share my interesting Saturday morning story

Well, I think you want to encourage all your rivals to follow these people's outstanding example! :)

[Terrific_Deals2k8]

Years ago I did the LSAT, not sure if I was going into Law or not. I also did the GMAT and the GRE! (I really wasn't sure!). The basics of the tests are similar and nothing prepares you like doing the real thing. I found that writing the GRE helped me with my timing, question reading and gave me a lot of confidence when I wrote the LSAT. I did well enough on it to get into law school but ended up doing my Masters in the US and never got back to Law school. Hence, and other people may have different opinions on this...writing the GRE and/or the GMAT may be (The GRE may be better as it is less mathy than the GMAT) good preparation tools for the LSAT. Good luck!!:)

Woah, thanks for the advice :D I'm definitely going to take my GMAT and it makes sense that writing the GRE or GMAT may be good preprartion for the LSAT, because I'm sure these standardized tests are similar in some ways. However, more importantly, I would assume that handling time allocation is the most important aspect for all of these exams. :razz:

[Asad_A203]

I am stuck at 161-162 right now and my timing is horrible...

My LSAT is finalized for this February (didn't feel prepared). Is anyone able to help me out with the reasoning behind some of these logic games setup (not sure if I can post them up)? Please PM me; I read Logic Games Bible in August and unfortunately some of these things seem a bit foriegn to me.



Thanks.

[Asad_A203]

Well late update/bump guys.

I did horrible on my LSAT (mid 150s). I was scoring consistiently mid 160s - low 170s during prep. What I can try telling other future LSAT students is FOCUS on your time, this is where you get burnt. If you take 2-3 mins extra doing a game and you get a perfect score, don't expect that on the LSAT. Also make sure you time in scoring in your answer sheet and using the exact same condition as you will during the test. During my prep, I used my cellphone for timing and didn't think 30-45 seconds for 100% accuracy was a bad thing. In hindsight, I should have been aiming for 45 seconds to a minute under 35 minutes during pre for the scoring. Make sure you guys can easily transfer your prep to the test center and you will be fine.


I got my letter from the Faculty of Law today, I was placed on a waiting list >:(. The kicker is I was under 2 decimal points from guranteed acceptance (U of M only cares about your GPA and LSAT score, both 50/50). I am 77 in the waiting list and only 101 got accepted (out of 11XX), so it seems I am SOL this year. I will be rewriting it again this fall, hoping for a mid 160 and should be piece of cake to get in next year (I get to drop 18 credit hours from my GPA calculation which helps out too).

[Octavius]

Well late update/bump guys.

I did horrible on my LSAT (mid 150s). I was scoring consistiently mid 160s - low 170s during prep. What I can try telling other future LSAT students is FOCUS on your time, this is where you get burnt. If you take 2-3 mins extra doing a game and you get a perfect score, don't expect that on the LSAT. Also make sure you time in scoring in your answer sheet and using the exact same condition as you will during the test. During my prep, I used my cellphone for timing and didn't think 30-45 seconds for 100% accuracy was a bad thing. In hindsight, I should have been aiming for 45 seconds to a minute under 35 minutes during pre for the scoring. Make sure you guys can easily transfer your prep to the test center and you will be fine.


I got my letter from the Faculty of Law today, I was placed on a waiting list >:(. The kicker is I was under 2 decimal points from guranteed acceptance (U of M only cares about your GPA and LSAT score, both 50/50). I am 77 in the waiting list and only 101 got accepted (out of 11XX), so it seems I am SOL this year. I will be rewriting it again this fall, hoping for a mid 160 and should be piece of cake to get in next year (I get to drop 18 credit hours from my GPA calculation which helps out too).

That sucks.

I'm surprised with a mid 150s score that you didn't get at least one offer from a law school somewhere in Canada. How's your GPA? How many law schools did you apply to?

For what it's worth, logic games was my best section whereas logical reasoning was an area that I definitely needed improvement on. The LG bible is a godsend, but I also used much of what I learned in a Kaplan course and combined the best of both worlds to achieve the best results.

On my diagnostic, I think I got 7 questions on LG right. On the real LSAT, I got only 2 or 3 wrong :)

Retake it and try again next year. I'm sure you'll have better luck then!

I would also suggest that you improve upon your holistic factors (volunteer/work experience). One of the offers of acceptances that I received was from a very "holistic" law school in Canada. Although my GPA was competitive, my LSAT wasn't, but it seems as though my "soft factors" were good enough to get me first round admission.

Best of Luck!

[Asad_A203]

That sucks.

I'm surprised with a mid 150s score that you didn't get at least one offer from a law school somewhere in Canada. How's your GPA? How many law schools did you apply to?

For what it's worth, logic games was my best section whereas logical reasoning was an area that I definitely needed improvement on. The LG bible is a godsend, but I also used much of what I learned in a Kaplan course and combined the best of both worlds to achieve the best results.

On my diagnostic, I think I got 7 questions on LG right. On the real LSAT, I got only 2 or 3 wrong :)

Retake it and try again next year. I'm sure you'll have better luck then!

I would also suggest that you improve upon your holistic factors (volunteer/work experience). One of the offers of acceptances that I received was from a very "holistic" law school in Canada. Although my GPA was competitive, my LSAT wasn't, but it seems as though my "soft factors" were good enough to get me first round admission.

Best of Luck!

Thanks, hopefully it goes fine next year.

Section I really stumbled on was the LG >:(. I got fixated on doing 1 game and couldn't figure it out. Ended up not having enough time to do the last game and it cost me dearly (the difference between my mid 150s to a cozy 16X). What the faculty provided to me, I basically had to score 4 points higher on my LSAT (160) to get admitted. Other problem was I forgot to register in time to write it in my city, so I had to drive out to a neighboring city to write it. Could not manage any sleep the night before and wasn't feeling so great writing something at 9 in the morning. In hindsight, I should have registered in June since the examination is much later in the day and at my university.

I actually only applied at U of M in Canada and a few universities in the states. I was really set on going to the law school locally here (since it is a 5 minute drive from my parents house), but I will keep my options open and apply everywhere this time. I did get a couple law schools interested in the states but they were Tier 3 law schools (I know, but if I am going to go to a crappy law school, I will stick in my own province, lol).

My GPA is currently a 3.8X-3.9X. U of M works by giving leverage to senior students, I applied as a 2nd year university student so they did not let me drop any courses in my GPA calculation. When I apply next year, I will have my 6 lowest courses dropped from my GPA calculation which will help greatly. If I apply after my degree, I will get to drop a year's worth of courses from the calculation which will be even better. But I think I will go back to finish up my business degree at a later point if it means entering law school one year early.

Will take your advice in handy, ever since high school, I have not done much volunteering (have been working 5 years part time during school in an IT linked field) and something I should definately make time for in the future.