G1 Driver Question

[Windevil7]

Everyone knows a G1 driver must be accompanied with a full-licenced driver who has at least 4 years of driving experience. My question is: Does the experienced driver have to obtain the G licence for 4 years or only been licenced for 4 years?

Answers are all appreciated!

[VivienM]

Everyone knows a G1 driver must be accompanied with a full-licenced driver who has at least 4 years of driving experience. My question is: Does the experienced driver have to obtain the G licence for 4 years or only been licenced for 4 years?

Answers are all appreciated!

I think it's just licenced for 4 years AND a current G licence.

Easy way to tell, at least on the older (prettier) licences: if you have four red dots underneath the picture, then you've got the required experience for sure...

[vaportech]

Must have a G license for 4 Years. Fully licensed means G and 4 years driving experience means they need to have had the G license for a duration of 4 years.

Class G1

New drivers of passenger vehicles learn to drive with six important conditions with a G1 licence. A new driver must hold a G1 licence for a minimum of 12 months before attempting the G1 road test. This time can be reduced to eight months if you successfully complete a Ministry-approved Beginner Driver Education Course. Drivers earn more privileges after passing their G1 road test.

As a G1 driver, you are required to:

· maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving;

· be accompanied by a fully licensed driver, who has at least four years driving experience, and a blood alcohol level of less than .05 per cent, in case he/she needs to take over the wheel;

· ensure the accompanying driver is the only other person in the front seat;

· ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts;

· refrain from driving on Ontario's "400-series" highways with a posted speed limit of over 80 km/h or on high speed expressways such as the Queen Elizabeth Way, Don Valley Parkway, Gardiner Expressway, E.C. Row Expressway and the Conestoga Parkway;

Note: If your accompanying driver is a driving instructor licensed in Ontario, you may drive on any road.

[funky_monkey_99]

yea..the experience part of it starts when u get your g1. cause i only had my g for 2 1/2 years and i just renewed recently and got the four dots on the new license which is located to the right and bottom-centre of the card vertically placed. so if u had your license for four years at any class but has to be a current g now, you can be passenger in front.

[Hugh Jass]

I posed the same question to my insurance company because it's not exactly clear. Initially they couldn't say for sure, but found out for sure that it means the passenger must have held a G license for 4 yrs. I asked a cop also and he said to the best of his knowledge it's 4yrs with a G.

I'm thinking of calling the Ministry and getting a definitive answer because it would benefit our family if it only means licensed for 4yrs, not a G for 4 yrs.

[VivienM]

(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and

(c) meets the applicable requirements of the Act and the regulations, including any requirement to wear corrective lenses but not including any requirement for any special or modified controls applicable to the accompanying driver’s licence. O. Reg. 340/94, s. 5 (2); O. Reg. 83/05, s. 4.

That's what the appropriate regulation says.

The interesting thing is if you contrast the language between (a) and (b). In (a), it says FULLY licensed, while in (b) it just says "licensed".

Do any HTA experts know if there's a definition of licensed around somewhere?

[Broli's Mom]

Do any HTA experts know if there's a definition of licensed around somewhere?

In O. Reg. 340/94, Drivers' Licences, the definition of a "fully licensed driver" is:

a person authorized to drive a class of motor vehicle on a highway and who, while operating a vehicle of that class, is not subject to novice conditions or classed as a probationary driver;

This means that the time that a person has held a G1 or a G2 does not count towards the "four year" time period.

[VivienM]

In O. Reg. 340/94, Drivers' Licences, the definition of a "fully licensed driver" is:

a person authorized to drive a class of motor vehicle on a highway and who, while operating a vehicle of that class, is not subject to novice conditions or classed as a probationary driver;

This means that the time that a person has held a G1 or a G2 does not count towards the "four year" time period.

I'm reading the same regulation.

It says: "(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and"

Notice how "fully licensed driver", which is indeed defined, is used ONLY in (a), but not in (b)?

If (b) said "has been a fully licensed driver in Ontario", then I would agree with you. But it does not.

[Broli's Mom]

I'm reading the same regulation.

It says: "(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and"

Notice how "fully licensed driver", which is indeed defined, is used ONLY in (a), but not in (b)?

If (b) said "has been a fully licensed driver in Ontario", then I would agree with you. But it does not.

There is no "or" between 2(a) and 2(b) but there is an "and" at the end of 2(b), this means that the driver must satisfy 2(a), 2(b) and 2(c) in order to be considered eligible as an accompanying driver.



(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and

(c) meets the applicable requirements of the Act and the regulations, including any requirement to wear corrective lenses but not including any requirement for any special or modified controls applicable to the accompanying driver’s licence. O. Reg. 340/94, s. 5 (2); O. Reg. 83/05, s. 4.

[VivienM]

There is no "or" between 2(a) and 2(b) but there is an "and" at the end of 2(b), this means that the driver must satisfy 2(a), 2(b) and 2(c) in order to be considered eligible as an accompanying driver.

Yes.

So, the person must be:
- a fully licensed driver in a class G motor vehicle AND
- licensed in Ontario for at least four years AND
- meeting the other requirements in the Act

Now, how do you go from THAT to saying that the person must have had a class G licence for four years?

The way I read it, if you got your class G licence yesterday (which makes you a fully licensed driver today), and you've been "licensed" in Ontario for at least four years (which satisfies the second requirement), and you meet the other requirements in the Act, then that satisfies all three elements.

Based on the MTO's policy when it comes to the red dots underneath your picture, I think they agree with my reading. I passed the G test 4.5 years after getting the G1 licence, and when they mailed the licence, IIRC it had the four red dots.

[Broli's Mom]

You're right, a G1 is a licence, as is a G2. Geez, this stuff is confusing!

[VivienM]

You're right, a G1 is a licence, as is a G2. Geez, this stuff is confusing!

Oh yes. The Highway Traffic Act is not the most... clearly worded... statute out there.

I think it's mostly a historical thing: they've just been patching it up for decades, so all kinds of old terminology (e.g. "novice driver") is still around, and then every time they come up with a newer restriction on young drivers, they just add more stuff to the regulations.

[Broli's Mom]

FWIW, a "driver's licence" is a licence issued under section 32 to drive a motor vehicle on the highway. I am not going to go any further for fear of putting my foot in my mouth...again! :D

[Sonbuster]

Must have a G license for 4 Years. Fully licensed means G and 4 years driving experience means they need to have had the G license for a duration of 4 years.

That's incorrect,
I got my G in my 5th year of recieving my license when it was issued as a G1.

as soon as i got my G, i had 4 dots. therefore, i'm a fully license G driver.

[VivienM]

FWIW, a "driver's licence" is a licence issued under section 32 to drive a motor vehicle on the highway.

Yes, but section 32... doesn't say too too much. :(

[vaportech]

That's incorrect,
I got my G in my 5th year of recieving my license when it was issued as a G1.

as soon as i got my G, i had 4 dots. therefore, i'm a fully license G driver.

Ah I see. Well in any case the OP should call a drivetest center or any government office knowledgeable in these matters. Should probably call MoT?

[shxon]

7] Does the time spent in Level 1 and
Level 2 count toward the 4 years of
experience you need to be an accompanying
driver ?
Yes, this experience counts

as shown on page 8 : http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/masterEnglish26Aug.pdf

[mobwiki]

I migrated in canada in 2004 first time from pakistan. They accepted my previous driving experience during applying for G1 test. in Aug 2005 just after 10 months from G1 license, I got G and they put 4 red dots on my license. as they added my backhome experience too.

[Donomight25]

I have my G1. My brother has his G for over a year.

I get pulled over for a rolling stop. I'm challenged regarding the 4yr min., cop says that my bro has had his G for just over a year. We argue. He says he's writing tickets
a) for a rolling stop
b) for failing to abide by the G1 HTA regulations.

While he was in his cruiser, another cruiser pulled up behind him, then beside him. They talked for a minute, and I see the other cruiser just drive off. SUPERVISOR is written on the side of his car. I jump out and tell the cop thats writing me the tickets that I wanna talk to the supervisor.

I walk to the back of my car, pull out the Driver's Handbook. I showed the supervisor the part where it says 'fully licensed driver, 4 years exp'. He starts to tell me what it's "supposed" to mean. I told em supposing and actual aren't the same, and this needs to be changed....

He drives up to the other cop, signals a bit, backs up and says 'You're one lucky kid'.

Cop 1 pulls out from behind me, snarls at me and takes off. Supervisor takes off the opposite direction.

I'm left standing on Trafalgar rd in Oakville, drivers handbook in hand, jaw on the ground.


I didn't even get a ticket for failing to stop. With a G1.




Haltons finest I guess.


ps - This happened last week....April 28th 1pm-ish, Oakville.

[thephenom]

I have my G1. My brother has his G for over a year.

I get pulled over for a rolling stop. I'm challenged regarding the 4yr min., cop says that my bro has had his G for just over a year. We argue. He says he's writing tickets
a) for a rolling stop
b) for failing to abide by the G1 HTA regulations.

While he was in his cruiser, another cruiser pulled up behind him, then beside him. They talked for a minute, and I see the other cruiser just drive off. SUPERVISOR is written on the side of his car. I jump out and tell the cop thats writing me the tickets that I wanna talk to the supervisor.

I walk to the back of my car, pull out the Driver's Handbook. I showed the supervisor the part where it says 'fully licensed driver, 4 years exp'. He starts to tell me what it's "supposed" to mean. I told em supposing and actual aren't the same, and this needs to be changed....

He drives up to the other cop, signals a bit, backs up and says 'You're one lucky kid'.

Cop 1 pulls out from behind me, snarls at me and takes off. Supervisor takes off the opposite direction.

I'm left standing on Trafalgar rd in Oakville, drivers handbook in hand, jaw on the ground.


I didn't even get a ticket for failing to stop. With a G1.

Haltons finest I guess.
ps - This happened last week....April 28th 1pm-ish, Oakville.
Another reason why you should be going to driving school, so you don't pick up stupid habits like that.

[Hugh Jass]

I didn't even get a ticket for failing to stop. With a G1.





Result !!!

[Hugh Jass]

Another reason why you should be going to driving school, so you don't pick up stupid habits like that.


So you've NEVER done a rolling stop?

[thephenom]

So you've NEVER done a rolling stop?
I stop enough to never get a ticket for not obeying stop sign or red light. ;)

[VivienM]

I get pulled over for a rolling stop.

Pulled over for a rolling stop?!?!? (i.e. slowing down to 2km/h at a stop sign instead of actually stopping)

Are you sure this was in Ontario? I need to move to wherever this is that actually enforces the driving laws...

[Hugh Jass]

Are you sure this was in Ontario? I need to move to wherever this is that actually enforces the driving laws...

Most cops will enforce it if they're on the lookout for it.

I got a ticket a few years ago but fought it and won. There were parked cars both sides and I basically poked my car out slowly, to look for oncoming traffic. Cop said that I didn't stop fully. I had pictures in court and showed that from where the cop was he couldn't have seen whether I stopped on the line or not.

[Donomight25]

Another reason why you should be going to driving school, so you don't pick up stupid habits like that.

I'm about a decade late for driving school.....bad habits were formed back when I was 16....

[thephenom]

I'm about a decade late for driving school.....bad habits were formed back when I was 16....

You've had your G1 for 10yrs now!?

[Donomight25]

You've had your G1 for 10yrs now!?

Nope. I took my written test in May 08'.

I'v been.... busy....the last few years.