pre-wiring a new home

[clueless]

I'm looking at pre-wiring my new home (the drywalls haven't been put up yet) for an alarm system and/or cat5 cables. Any recommendations on how I would go about this or if this is even necessary?

A lot of people are mentioning that i can forgo the alarm pre-wiring, and just install a wireless alarm system. Any comments?

[hugh_da_man]

Did you ask your builder? My builder wouldn't let me in to do any pre-wiring.

If I had the option I'd run cat5e/6 and cable to every room and I'd run all the alarm system wiring as well (although I think the builder is running all the alarm system wiring anyways).

I wouldn't limit myself to only a wireless system when I could have my choice in the future.

[OldFortYork]

I'd go with a wired alarm system, and install Cat 6 cable.

[Keigotw]

I'm looking at pre-wiring my new home (the drywalls haven't been put up yet) for an alarm system and/or cat5 cables. Any recommendations on how I would go about this or if this is even necessary?

A lot of people are mentioning that i can forgo the alarm pre-wiring, and just install a wireless alarm system. Any comments?

Builder usually pre wire for alarm

I run Cat6 cable in every room before the dry wall was put in

[davebert]

You should have at least 1 phone, 1 cat5e and 2 RG6 cable outlet per room. During my basement renovations I ran 3 cat5e for phone and network and 3 RB6 cable per outlet. Here are the connectors that I used and my home made patch panel.

http://www.rpelectronics.com/Data/100-500.JPG

http://www.rpelectronics.com/Data/100-524.JPG

http://www.worldofcables.com/store/catalog/UTP-3506.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/16ay6jb.jpg

[BuildingHomes]

If you have the option, do it.

If you need assistance on how to do it right, please feel free to PM me.

[fogo]

What about sound?

I'm selling something that you might be interested in?

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7082134#post7082134

Make me an offer?

[bfr]

My security guy says it's still advantageous to go wired for security.

Same thing for the reliability and speed potential of your network.

I agree with the above post, with the awesome homemade panel, about cables to run if you have the option.

[loudsubz]

Always go wired for an alarm if you can. Wireless batteries need to be changed, and sometimes if a transmitter goes bad and you don't have wireless check in supervision enabled, you might not know when a device has gone belly up. Wireless motions tend to be crap as well, since they take naps once in awhile and you can basically walk right by them without setting it off.

If you need any help let us know. We do home automation as well as all low voltage assemblies for your home/office etc.

[loudsubz]

If you want to rough it in yourself, just go to home depot and buy a box of 24/4c, (24 awg, 4 conductor) QUAD as they call it.

This is adequate for every part of the alarm system (contact runs, power from transformer to panel, phone to alarm system, etc).

Drill all your door contacts with 3/8" bits and move the bit in and out to make sure the hole is nice and clean. Position the door contacts on the front side of the door so you can utilize a magnet sytle, and not a plunger switch (mechanical).

Rough in for a keypad, motions, and any windows. Also run 2 pairs to the attic in case you want to add anything extra down the line.

[plymouthhater]

If you want to rough it in yourself, just go to home depot and buy a box of 24/4c, (24 awg, 4 conductor) QUAD as they call it.

This is adequate for every part of the alarm system (contact runs, power from transformer to panel, phone to alarm system, etc).

Drill all your door contacts with 3/8" bits and move the bit in and out to make sure the hole is nice and clean. Position the door contacts on the front side of the door so you can utilize a magnet sytle, and not a plunger switch (mechanical).

Rough in for a keypad, motions, and any windows. Also run 2 pairs to the attic in case you want to add anything extra down the line.

Well said.

Here's another suggestion:

Run a 1" piece of poly pipe (black plastic lawn sprinkler pipe) from each room you wish to prewire to the basement down inside of an exterior wall. Why exterior walls? They always line up, interior walls may not. Terminate the pipe at electrical socket height on the wall. Go and buy "plaster rings" from an electrical supplier. Plaster rings are the front plate of an electrical box with no box. Basically the space between the studs becomes your defacto electrical box. For electrical wiring (110v) this is a NO NO but for pulling coax, ethernet, telephone wiring in the future this works great. You put a blank faceplate over the plaster ring cutout where the sprinkler pipe terminates. In the future if you ever want to pull anything to a room - simply drop a piece of string with a couple of nuts or washers for weight on tied to the end. The string falls down to the basement. Tie your wire on in the basement and pull the wire up and into the room.

[GTT1]

You should have at least 1 phone, 1 cat5e and 2 RG6 cable outlet per room. During my basement renovations I ran 3 cat5e for phone and network and 3 RB6 cable per outlet. Here are the connectors that I used and my home made patch panel.


Can you explain what Cat5e and RG6 is used for. Is it networking cable and TV cable?

[jnette]

Can you explain what Cat5e and RG6 is used for. Is it networking cable and TV cable?

Cat5e is for phone/networking and RG6 is for satellite/cable tv

[clueless]

Well said.

Here's another suggestion:

Run a 1" piece of poly pipe (black plastic lawn sprinkler pipe) from each room you wish to prewire to the basement down inside of an exterior wall. Why exterior walls? They always line up, interior walls may not. Terminate the pipe at electrical socket height on the wall. Go and buy "plaster rings" from an electrical supplier. Plaster rings are the front plate of an electrical box with no box. Basically the space between the studs becomes your defacto electrical box. For electrical wiring (110v) this is a NO NO but for pulling coax, ethernet, telephone wiring in the future this works great. You put a blank faceplate over the plaster ring cutout where the sprinkler pipe terminates. In the future if you ever want to pull anything to a room - simply drop a piece of string with a couple of nuts or washers for weight on tied to the end. The string falls down to the basement. Tie your wire on in the basement and pull the wire up and into the room.

That's pretty cool ...
but i'm worried about the builder not letting anyone "officially" into the house. Has anyone just gone into the house on a weekend to do the wiring anyways? will the builder rip it out or make me take it out?

I knew that cat5 could be used for internet, but could it be used for other things (like home monitoring and hooking a video camera up to the internet?)?

[loudsubz]

cat5e is so universal it can be used for many different applications, so you can't go wrong with using cat5e as a fail safe for future "plans"

[Anonymouse]

As an electrical engineer, I recommend that you install category 6 or 6a in new construction. There will even be a cat 7 soon.

[BuildingHomes]

If you want to rough it in yourself, just go to home depot and buy a box of 24/4c, (24 awg, 4 conductor) QUAD as they call it.

22g.. Quad is 22g :)

24g twisted and it would be cat3.

Either way it works for security.. and vac.. and quick patches for phone.

[BuildingHomes]

As an electrical engineer, I recommend that you install category 6 or 6a in new construction. There will even be a cat 7 soon.


Umm, yes, there will be cat7, however the cost of the cable and the costs to terminate it would be quite prohibitive :)

Even cat6a is excessive. With a rating of 500MHz or greater to allow 10Gigabit.. Nice and all, but not really something you would use in a home any time soon. New office for a tech company, yes..

cat5e is fine. cat6 would be better, but you will unlikely reap the benefits for at least 10 years.

[BuildingHomes]

That's pretty cool ...
but i'm worried about the builder not letting anyone "officially" into the house. Has anyone just gone into the house on a weekend to do the wiring anyways? will the builder rip it out or make me take it out

This really depends on your builder. I have installed in many many homes during construction, but I usually have an arrangement in place before I go in.

[Keigotw]

If you want to rough it in yourself, just go to home depot and buy a box of 24/4c, (24 awg, 4 conductor) QUAD as they call it.

This is adequate for every part of the alarm system (contact runs, power from transformer to panel, phone to alarm system, etc).

Drill all your door contacts with 3/8" bits and move the bit in and out to make sure the hole is nice and clean. Position the door contacts on the front side of the door so you can utilize a magnet sytle, and not a plunger switch (mechanical).

Rough in for a keypad, motions, and any windows. Also run 2 pairs to the attic in case you want to add anything extra down the line.

Home depot is too expensive
this guy have a better price, i bought a box from him
http://www.baranharper.com/htm/dsc4wire.htm

[davebert]

I forgot to mention a couple of things I learn doing my cabling. If you can afford it, it is best to get multiple spools of the cables. In my case I got 3 1000 feet spools of Cat5e and RG6 cable. This made pulling the cables much much faster, I just had to pull the cables to its destination in one big bundle.

I was going to get a spool of 4 conductor cable for the phone and alarm system but the 4 conductor cable was around $65 which was more than what I was paying for Cat5e cable at $45. So I ended up using Cat5e cable for my video intercom, telephone, and alarm system.

Also, If you are planning to put in a home theater system, run the wiring for the surround sound speakers is a good idea. And finally, if the wires are going to be buried behind dry wall, document their location with measurments do not rely on your memory.

[Anonymouse]

cat5e is fine. cat6 would be better, but you will unlikely reap the benefits for at least 10 years.

It has been my experience that people who make predictions like that in the technology space are always wrong. The difference in price between cat 5e and cat 6 is about $30/1000 ft according to pricewatch. It's totally worth it for the future-proofing.

Please don't install cat5e in new construction; the only people who recommend this are Home Depot and uneducated cable installers.

[loudsubz]

It has been my experience that people who make predictions like that in the technology space are always wrong. The difference in price between cat 5e and cat 6 is about $30/1000 ft according to pricewatch. It's totally worth it for the future-proofing.

Please don't install cat5e in new construction; the only people who recommend this are Home Depot and uneducated cable installers.

Where does the arrival of Cat 6A leave Cat 6? In my opinion, it makes it redundant because, although Cat 6 has two and a half times the frequency range of Cat 5e, no network standards have been adopted that run on Cat 6 but won’t run on Cat 5e. Cat 7 is a superb cabling system but is very expensive, is no longer needed for 10GbE and, in my opinion, is over the top. So you’re choice is simply between Cat 6A and Cat 5e.

[loudsubz]

Heres a good read

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1329982&page=10

[BuildingHomes]

It has been my experience that people who make predictions like that in the technology space are always wrong. The difference in price between cat 5e and cat 6 is about $30/1000 ft according to pricewatch. It's totally worth it for the future-proofing.

Please don't install cat5e in new construction; the only people who
recommend this are Home Depot and uneducated cable installers.

I will install cat5e in new construction because usually the other choice is cat3, and looped. Looped cat3 is what _most_ builders are doing in the GTA. In fact, I worked on one house they used quad.

If the client wants to go with cat6, of course I will do it. I will educate them on the differences between all the cables and assist them in their decision.

As for my prediction, I think it's valid. 10G in 10 years.. You can do 10G on cat5e now...

[Anonymouse]

I agree that you should install Cat6a if possible. On lanshack.com it looks like you'd pay about $350 after shipping for that cable in a typical house, about twice the cost of cat6, but still not a lot.

The issue in home installations is usually that the wire isn't terminated properly and you get all kinds of reflections which cause errors. If possible, hire an installer that does commercial work and has a proper tester to certify the total link from jack to jack. Insist that every drop be tested and certified.

[BuildingHomes]

The issue in home installations is usually that the wire isn't terminated properly and you get all kinds of reflections which cause errors. If possible, hire an installer that does commercial work and has a proper tester to certify the total link from jack to jack. Insist that every drop be tested and certified.

Every network termination I do in a residential is tested. I come across many in one particular builder where they terminate them with tooless jacks, INcorrectly. They strip back about 4" of jacket and punch them down into the wrong slots and put nothing on at the other end. I usually just cut them off, put on better jacks and test them end to end.

[Hybrid88]

When buildinghomes did my place he tested each point. Make sure the job is done correctly and everyone is happy.

Every network termination I do in a residential is tested. I come across many in one particular builder where they terminate them with tooless jacks, INcorrectly. They strip back about 4" of jacket and punch them down into the wrong slots and put nothing on at the other end. I usually just cut them off, put on better jacks and test them end to end.

[loudsubz]

Testers are so cheap everyone should have one when terminating network connections.

[Anonymouse]

I don't think a proper 10 Gig test set is cheap. The 10G add-on kit alone for the Fluke tester is $2500. I guarantee that the installers who are recommending cat5e in new construction don't have one.

[BuildingHomes]

I don't think a proper 10 Gig test set is cheap. The 10G add-on kit alone for the Fluke tester is $2500. I guarantee that the installers who are recommending cat5e in new construction don't have one.

Fluke DTX1800 is $9000. I just priced one the other day for an upcoming job.

[loudsubz]

I don't think a proper 10 Gig test set is cheap. The 10G add-on kit alone for the Fluke tester is $2500. I guarantee that the installers who are recommending cat5e in new construction don't have one.

In a perfect world everyone would have these testers, but in reality, its very rare in a home enviroment that your going to be needing that kind of speed on a home network. I have used the fluke testers before, and even when the cat5 was run along 120v AC (no other way, in steel channel) the fluke passed it and all reading were acceptible (this was for a school board).

If we had huge jobs with hundreds of runs with critical data being sent along them, then yes it would be a no brainer, but you have to weigh your options.

[Anonymouse]

For me, even if you're not going to use 10G in your house, it's a quality thing. If the installer knows he has to certify the installation, he's going to do a better job. I've audited installers' work in England and South Africa and found 4 inches of untwisted wire behind the jacks. We didn't specify certification with a particular test rig in the contracts and the installers argued that as long as the pins matched up on either end that constituted compliance. After that experience, we now specify the test the installations have to pass in great detail - it takes up 2 full pages in the contracts - and we hire qualified folks to supervise these tests.

All of which is to say that you have to specify every aspect of the installation in great detail otherwise you'll get taken advantage of. The installer does not have your best interests at heart and may not know himself what is required, particularly in residential construction.

I'm not an expert but I'm not sure running 120V AC alongside network cables is a problem; I think the signals are fully differential so anything that gets coupled onto both wires gets rejected more than 60 dB at the receiver. We try to avoid it, but we've put unshielded cat5 in nonconducting conduit close to 20 kV wires with no ill effects that have come to our attention.

[BuildingHomes]

CEDIA Installer certification exam recommends a minimum of 18" between low-voltage and 'high voltage' wiring. Low-voltage can be anything from network, TV cable, speaker, etc.. Makes more sense for unshielded speaker on a long run with electrical. I have had that happen before and had to invest in localized shielding for a wire run and the speaker it was going to.

Note: Residential installations are not the same as commercial. Residential is more concerned with cost of getting cabling in place rather than actually certifying it. Low-voltage is always an afterthought which is probably why I get so much work for adding things to peoples new houses after they move in.

[Anonymouse]

I'd have to defer to your qualification exam but I think 18" has more to do with safety than noise coupling in the specific case of differential ethernet signals. I just reviewed a bunch of papers in the IEEE database and found that 1) it has not been extensively studied and 2) one paper found a 1.25 mV differential signal induced in a cat5 cable with a huge ESD event nearby, meaning there is no problem whatsoever.

Interestingly, the IEEE papers are of the opinion that high quality UTP is very close to the performance of STP, which I didn't expect. I found the exact opposite conclusion in a presentation by an STP vendor. :-)

The home builder I'm talking to wants $1700 for 6 Cat5 jacks plus a patch panel - is this a reasonable price in your experience? I'm thinking of walking away from this builder because it seems rather high to me.

[loudsubz]

I'd have to defer to your qualification exam but I think 18" has more to do with safety than noise coupling in the specific case of differential ethernet signals. I just reviewed a bunch of papers in the IEEE database and found that 1) it has not been extensively studied and 2) one paper found a 1.25 mV differential signal induced in a cat5 cable with a huge ESD event nearby, meaning there is no problem whatsoever.

Interestingly, the IEEE papers are of the opinion that high quality UTP is very close to the performance of STP, which I didn't expect. I found the exact opposite conclusion in a presentation by an STP vendor. :-)

The home builder I'm talking to wants $1700 for 6 Cat5 jacks plus a patch panel - is this a reasonable price in your experience? I'm thinking of walking away from this builder because it seems rather high to me.

No that is a ridiculous price..

[BuildingHomes]

The home builder I'm talking to wants $1700 for 6 Cat5 jacks plus a patch panel - is this a reasonable price in your experience? I'm thinking of walking away from this builder because it seems rather high to me.

Average is between $100-$175 for a cat5 run through a builder. So at their standard markup, the $1700 is rather high. Also, if you are getting that information through a sales office, then most likely it has been misinterpreted.

The majority of the sales people have very little idea on technical details as they just read off a line item in a price guide. These are also the same people that recommend putting a cable jack above a fireplace..

[clueless]

Average is between $100-$175 for a cat5 run through a builder. So at their standard markup, the $1700 is rather high. Also, if you are getting that information through a sales office, then most likely it has been misinterpreted.

The majority of the sales people have very little idea on technical details as they just read off a line item in a price guide. These are also the same people that recommend putting a cable jack above a fireplace..

I thought that running cat5 cable through the builder would cost more than the $100-$175 price range. How much would I expect it to cost if I were to do this myself, or hire a contractor/electrician to do something like this?
I would I be lacking if I did it through the builder? (I am assuming that they only do the bare minimum?)

[Keigotw]

I thought that running cat5 cable through the builder would cost more than the $100-$175 price range. How much would I expect it to cost if I were to do this myself, or hire a contractor/electrician to do something like this?
I would I be lacking if I did it through the builder? (I am assuming that they only do the bare minimum?)

If is $100-$175 per Jack?
then if you do it yourself
you buy a 1 box of 1000 foot cat5 cable $100 something
+ rj45 head + crip tool

so probably $200 to cAT5 All rooms in you house (if 1000 foot is enough)

[AudiDude]

It has been my experience that people who make predictions like that in the technology space are always wrong.


Is that experience or a prediction? J/K

"640kb ought to be enough for anybody." :lol:

[BuildingHomes]

If is $100-$175 per Jack?
then if you do it yourself
you buy a 1 box of 1000 foot cat5 cable $100 something
+ rj45 head + crip tool

so probably $200 to cAT5 All rooms in you house (if 1000 foot is enough)

This may work for some people, but most have no clue about how to do this properly in a home. An electrician may have a better idea, but it too will usually be missing something. And using a single box of cat5 to do many runs around the house will take forever :)

Hire a proper low-voltage person. CEDIA or BICSI certification would be nice too.