Splitting Cost of Fence -Verbal Agreement

[lays]

Just wondering if anybody has input on what power a verbal agreement has in Canada. I recently had a fence built and had my neighbours on board to split the cost. This was reiterated numerous times.
Now that the fence is built, one of the neighbours is backing out stating that they do not want to pay (they may pay next year, but unlikely) Is this just my loss? Is there anything I can do about. The agreement was verbal, not written on paper.
I know in Ottawa there is no by-laws pertaining to forcing neighbours to split the cost (usually the cost of a chain-link fence), so I only have the verbal agreement to rely on.

Thanks for any info.

[buyways]

Generally, you can have a binding contract based on a verbal agreement - writing is not necessary. The problem is proving there was an agreement and what its terms were. That proof could come from your testimony or, better, the testimony of you and your other neighbours - it'll come down to who the trier of fact (the judge) believes, but the burden will be on you to show on a balance of probabilities that there was an agreement etc. Practically, it comes down to the cost of pursuing what you think this neighbour owes you- you're probably looking at small claims court, where everyone can represent themselves, but there's a filing fee, fees to serve documents, lost time for you and your co-plaintiffs/witnesses, etc etc. You could take a chance that the neighbour won't file a defence to your claim and invest in the filing and service fees, then seek a default judgment, then seek to enforce it... and you may or may not recover the costs of pursuing that judgment. Anyway, if it's a couple hundred bucks it may not be worth it, unfortunately - but if you're really interested in pursuing it, I'd start with trying to get a free consultation from a small-office lawyer. You could also invest $6 in the Laywer Referral Service from the Law Society of Upper Canada (a.k.a. Ontario) - they'll give you the names of 3 lawyers willing to give you a free consult:

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/finding/lrs/

More LSUC info on finding a lawyer:
http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/finding/

Small Claims Court info:
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/scc/

CBC story on small claims court:
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/money/court/index.html

[dunderwood]

I've been through this situation.
There are bylaws for fences which you can investigate locally. Common property improvement.

In general it states you can take them legally to small claims court for the price of a shared chain link fence. Sometimes costing more than the wooden fence if you bought bulk for numerous homes.

[lays]

Sadly, Ottawa has no such by-laws

[3weddings]

Do the rest of your neighbours agree that you had all agreed to split the cost? If so, approach him and remind him of the agreement.
Does he share a a portion of the fence with you? If he doesn't pay, then he MUST allow you access to maintain the fence, and he cannot do anything to the fence without your permission.

We ran into a similar issue when I organized our 12 homes with my next door neighbour who hired someone to assemble her fence and when I went to her to recover her cost of materials she attempted to deduct his labour charges from the fence we share. We did not agree to this, and when my husband reminded her of this, she tried to insist. Fortunately her husband had some morals and gave us the full amount they owed (her contractor did nothing on our side of the fence at all), It was even funnier when she only wanted to pay for the boards she needed (not any extras for damaged/undesireable board) and then tried to swap board out of our driveway to replace her ugly ones..lol. My father in law (old time Jamaican man) kept slapping her hands until she got it...lmao.

The good news is that you won't have to communicate with him again once you are over this hurdle, but I would get all the neighbours together and approach him. You should not be left with this cost.

[BuildingHomes]

A verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on.

As said above, it will be your word against theirs.. So get more people on your side that heard them agree to what was said.

[Nikita]

Generally, you can have a binding contract based on a verbal agreement - writing is not necessary. The problem is proving there was an agreement and what its terms were. That proof could come from your testimony or, better, the testimony of you and your other neighbours - it'll come down to who the trier of fact (the judge) believes, but the burden will be on you to show on a balance of probabilities that there was an agreement etc. Practically, it comes down to the cost of pursuing what you think this neighbour owes you- you're probably looking at small claims court, where everyone can represent themselves, but there's a filing fee, fees to serve documents, lost time for you and your co-plaintiffs/witnesses, etc etc. You could take a chance that the neighbour won't file a defence to your claim and invest in the filing and service fees, then seek a default judgment, then seek to enforce it... and you may or may not recover the costs of pursuing that judgment. Anyway, if it's a couple hundred bucks it may not be worth it, unfortunately - but if you're really interested in pursuing it, I'd start with trying to get a free consultation from a small-office lawyer. You could also invest $6 in the Laywer Referral Service from the Law Society of Upper Canada (a.k.a. Ontario) - they'll give you the names of 3 lawyers willing to give you a free consult:

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/finding/lrs/

More LSUC info on finding a lawyer:
http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/finding/

Small Claims Court info:
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/scc/

CBC story on small claims court:
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/money/court/index.html

Good info and accurate. Just wanted to add that your filing fees, service fees and other reasonable costs can be recovered if you win your case, as well as pre- and post-judgment interest.

A verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on.

As said above, it will be your word against theirs.. So get more people on your side that heard them agree to what was said.

Wrong, a verbal contract is as enforceable as a written one, the only difference being the difficulty in proving it, as buyways said. However, in this case it seems the agreement was between a number of neighbors, so it shouldn't be too difficult to prove the contract. If the other neighbors don't want to testify, you can subpeona them, don't know if you want to do that to your neighbors, but since they're all getting burned for the one neighbor's share I'm assuming at least one or two of them would be willing to give evidence.

Be sure to take pics of the fence and be sure they show that the fence IS indeed shared by the deadbeat.

[WalnutCrunch]

The other neighbours can only help you out if they were all there when you all made the agreement. If you approached each neighbour individually, they may not be able to provide a worthwhile testimony.

How much does the non-paying neighbour owe? I know it sucks and some others may not agree; but IMO sometimes it's better to just let it go and avoid confrontation with a neighbour. Especially in this case when it's only a verbal contract that is difficult to prove and therefore is a case that is difficult to win anyway.

[molala]

Sorry for hijacking the thread..but I'm curious....when the contractor build the fence...can't they bill each houses individually rather than having one person paying? it would be easier to the contractor to go through small claim court than a normal resident

[Whitedart]

Sorry for hijacking the thread..but I'm curious....when the contractor build the fence...can't they bill each houses individually rather than having one person paying? it would be easier to the contractor to go through small claim court than a normal resident

There are other threads about this.

If 5 neighbours agreed with a contractor to erect a fence, and you are number 6, and you made no agreement to hire the contractor or had previously told him you could not afford to build the fence at this time. Are you going to pay a bill for the fence when it is handed to you? Not likely.

[molala]

There are other threads about this.

If 5 neighbours agreed with a contractor to erect a fence, and you are number 6, and you made no agreement to hire the contractor or had previously told him you could not afford to build the fence at this time. Are you going to pay a bill for the fence when it is handed to you? Not likely.

but in op's case...the neighbour agreed in the first place and then denied it when the job is done...

[Whitedart]

but in op's case...the neighbour agreed in the first place and then denied it when the job is done...

I know, but a verbal contract like this is a little more difficut to enforce than a writen contract.

I think the OP should review the Ontario Line Fences Act, given that Ottawa has no by-law regarding the cost sharing of a fence.
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/5758eb7c-c865-446d-b1a9-f3112e8764f0/2/frame/?search=browseStatutes&context=


Section 16 indicates a written agreement in the prescribed form, and there is no mention of a verbal agreement, so it may not help here.

Enforcement of agreements
16. Any agreement in writing in the prescribed form between owners respecting a line fence may be registered and enforced as if it were an award of fence-viewers. R.S.O 1990, c. L.17, s. 16.

[molala]

I know, but a verbal contract like this is a little more difficut to enforce than a writen contract.

I think the OP should review the Ontario Line Fences Act, given that Ottawa has no by-law regarding the cost sharing of a fence.
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/5758eb7c-c865-446d-b1a9-f3112e8764f0/2/frame/?search=browseStatutes&context=


Section 16 indicates a written agreement in the prescribed form, and there is no mention of a verbal agreement, so it may not help here.

Enforcement of agreements
16. Any agreement in writing in the prescribed form between owners respecting a line fence may be registered and enforced as if it were an award of fence-viewers. R.S.O 1990, c. L.17, s. 16.


i'm not talking about the verbal agreement...all neighbours agreed to build the fence at first place...then why don't the contractor billed each individual household rather than one neighbour?

[Whitedart]

i'm not talking about the verbal agreement...all neighbours agreed to build the fence at first place...then why don't the contractor billed each individual household rather than one neighbour?

OP did not mention a contractor. I see many neighbours build their own fences, where one or more will order all the fence boards, striingers, nails, etc. They usually have a post hole contractor install the posts, and the neighbours go out and nail the rest together over a weekend.

[Blackjack]

I would still try and reason with your neighbour. Monthly payments? Going to court can be a very time consuming process.

[molala]

OP did not mention a contractor. I see many neighbours build their own fences, where one or more will order all the fence boards, striingers, nails, etc. They usually have a post hole contractor install the posts, and the neighbours go out and nail the rest together over a weekend.


My first post wasn't related to the thread...but i'm just curious...because when I had my fence done....all of our neighbours agreed for the same contractor to do it...i couldn't remember who i paid to...but i would assume all the neighbours have to agreed in order to have the fence build between everyone's property line...if that's they case...why don't the contractor billed each individual's household rather than billing one person and have to go after their neighbour for it

[BuildingHomes]

Wrong, a verbal contract is as enforceable as a written one, the only difference being the difficulty in proving it, as buyways said.

In a situation such as this with so many parties involved, I would probably assume that getting everything in writing is going to be much more beneficial than getting into a "but he said.." sort of pissing match.

This is why I say verbal contracts aren't really worth anything.

It's much easier to prove something written on a piece of paper and signed.

[Nikita]

In a situation such as this with so many parties involved, I would probably assume that getting everything in writing is going to be much more beneficial than getting into a "but he said.." sort of pissing match.

This is why I say verbal contracts aren't really worth anything.

It's much easier to prove something written on a piece of paper and signed.

I completely agree always get it in writing. But I just don't want people thinking that because they didn't, they have no remedy. To say a verbal contract isn't really worth anything is just not the case. As I said, a verbal contract is as enforceable as a written one, just harder to prove.