Is 10% pretax too low for a tip?

[anycee]

I think so. My friend disagrees.

[gordholio]

Hand them over your life savings. That should do it. :cheesygri

[rems]

i thought standard rate for average service was 10% post or 15% pre tax...

[JLee]

I try to 10% post if nothing goes wrong and everything is normal

less, or none, if service was garbage

more if service was good!

Some people tend to think that tips are expected... that's pretty ********.

[Legend24]

I pretty much just tip whatever the tax comes to (13-14%) if the service was what I expected. If it was really good service, I'll leave a bigger tip. It the service was bad, I would leave a smaller tip, even though they don't deserve a tip at all of that's the case. But I'll save my rant on tipping for another time...

[Nikita]

Yes, it's too low if you received good service. I always tip at least 15%, up to 20% for excellent service.

[ullyeus]

I vote for option 4, tips aren't mandatory.

[UncleSteve]

The poll is flawed. It's missing the option to vote for "Crap, not another thread about tipping".

This thread will end up about 20 pages filled with 2 types of posts:

1) Since I don't tip my doctor, why should I tip my waiter?
2) Hey, I deserve a tip, since steaming milk for a latte is art.

etc., etc.

[UrbanPoet]

i usually just give the TAx amount which is what.. 13% now?
If its good exceptional service ill give up to 20% O_O

[Azxster]

I tip because society pressures me to, but I honestly do not see the point of gratuities.

[Spidey]

It costs me or my wife enough to take out our family of 5 to eat at a restaurant. So I dont tip that much. Society can pressure me all it wants.

If its a restaurant we frequent regularly in town or a pub, I do tip. Not a lot, but I do. If its in a restaurant out of town I will never be in again, I usally dont. Depends on the sitation

if I tip to much, that takes away from my fun money.

[Bazooka Joe]

The poll is flawed. It's missing the option to vote for "Crap, not another thread about tipping".
This thread will end up about 20 pages filled with 2 types of posts:

1) Since I don't tip my doctor, why should I tip my waiter?
2) Hey, I deserve a tip, since steaming milk for a latte is art.

etc., etc.

+1

I consider someone cheap if they don't tip at least 15% pre tax unless service was well below average.

[Spidey]

+1

I consider someone cheap if they don't tip at least 15% pre tax unless service was well below average.

This is RFD, we're all cheap arent we:lol:

[cheeseshredder]

It's funny when servers complain on these forums about how they deserve tips and have "low wages" and do hard work.

I work in a restaurant and the amount of tips these people get are insane. So around minimum wage + tips = a lot more than most people think.

[Alvito]

my brother vends beer at the acc and rogers center. he easily pulls in 60 bucks a night, for only working 2 1/2 hours. + his hourly wage.....

[Asmegin]

I worked in a not so nice restaurant and each server would get around $200 in tips each night on Friday-Sunday....

[tebore]

Another tipping thread?

This is how I tip I take pre-tax total round down to the closest round number then move the decimal over. It works out to 5-8%.

Don't like it? I got a tip for you get a better job! I came for the food hell I'll bust my own table if the food is good. Most of the time service is crap anywhere you go.

[Odysseus_Maximus]

I tip anywhere from 0 % to 20 % based on the level service.

[M@rk]

I give 10% pre-tax for standard service, even in Pho noodle places. Anything more depends on the place and service.

[Ma_Jie]

Question: how many people, who think 10% is OK, assuming average or good service, have worked in that industry? Not tipping well enough, as long as the service wasn't horrible, is appalling: people depend on those tips to live -- and some of you won't get that until you actually are involved in the industry. Also, for those who tip for slow service, it's not always the waiter's fault: if the kitchen's slammed, and in the weeds, what is he supposed to do? Go on the line and make your entree specially for you?

- Jie

P.S. For average/standard service, I give 15%; and if it is great service, I'll give 20%. But to give only 10, no offence, is cheap. If you can't afford to tip 15%, considering decent service, why eat out? Cook at home, and save that 10% -- thosepennies might come in handy one day.

[Digo]

P.S. For average/standard service, I give 15%; and if it is great service, I'll give 20%. But to give only 10, no offence, is cheap. If you can't afford to tip 15%, considering decent service, why eat out? Cook at home, and save that 10% -- thosepennies might come in handy one day.

Wow, all a waiter does is fetch the food. I don't know why this is such a huge deal. Tips should be eliminated, and they should just pay the damn waiters regular pay with no tip (ie. include it in the bill).

It makes more sense for me to tip the Chef. Is it really that hard to take food from point A to point B? Are they dodging ninjas on the way?

[sxz]

It's not that I don't like tipping but I find it a little extraneous. The concept of paying someone more than what you should for simply doing their job is mind-boggling. When was the last time you tipped a McDonald's employee? Now if they went above and beyond what I'd expect then I can understand. And it only happens because of the laws allowing owners to pay minimum wage to these waiters/waitresses. I think Asian countries/cultures have the right idea in not really practicing tipping. That way owners are almost forced to give out higher wages instead of screwing the waiters/waitresses over. Even if that means an increase in the price of the food it's a better and more convenient method of dealing with things. That's my two cents! (ha, get it?)

As for OP, 10% is fine.

[Legend24]

Wow, all a waiter does is fetch the food. I don't know why this is such a huge deal. Tips should be eliminated, and they should just pay the damn waiters regular pay with no tip (ie. include it in the bill).

It makes more sense for me to tip the Chef. Is it really that hard to take food from point A to point B? Are they dodging ninjas on the way?

That got a laugh out of me. Mission accomplished.

All I have to say is one thing: Tips are not mandatory. Be grateful that you are getting anything at all.

We pay for the food and it is the company's job to distribute that money how they see fit to its employees. Be mad at them for not giving you a high enough hourly wage. Tell them to eliminate tips, raise the price of food and increase your wage. But then of course, you'd have to raise the wage of every other job by the same percentage, which would leave us all back where we started.

Tips make is seem as if the customer is the bad guy when the waiters and waitresses don't get as much money as they hope, when in fact, it's the employer who is the bad guy.

What a spoiled nation we live in...

[TenzoR]

You give what you feel like it... why do you care about what other people think?

[sxz]

You give what you feel like it... why do you care about what other people think?

Because the main reason most people tip is because they think people are expecting them to.

[cheeseshredder]

Question: how many people, who think 10% is OK, assuming average or good service, have worked in that industry? Not tipping well enough, as long as the service wasn't horrible, is appalling: people depend on those tips to live -- and some of you won't get that until you actually are involved in the industry. Also, for those who tip for slow service, it's not always the waiter's fault: if the kitchen's slammed, and in the weeds, what is he supposed to do? Go on the line and make your entree specially for you?

- Jie

P.S. For average/standard service, I give 15%; and if it is great service, I'll give 20%. But to give only 10, no offence, is cheap. If you can't afford to tip 15%, considering decent service, why eat out? Cook at home, and save that 10% -- thosepennies might come in handy one day.

I work in a kitchen and think that tipping has gone too far. The only reason why people need it to live is because tipping has perpetuated so far. Serving staff make a LOT where I work, and honestly for the amount of work/skill involved, it's too much.

It's ridiculous how people work in a restaurant, and suddenly become experts on hard work and being paid low wages, when really there are tons of harder jobs where the pay is even lower.

It's not that we don't understand "the industry", we just realize that there are a lot of harder jobs with much lower pay. Be glad with what you have, especially when the job doesn't require a lot of skills.

If you want more money, go back to school, get some new skills and get a new job.

[profguy]

Hand them over your life savings. That should do it. :cheesygri

Right on ... and then some. According to some (and they are likely waiter/waitresses) you cannot tip too much even if all they do is take you order - they don't cook or make anything special or unique.

Tip as much as you can to make yourself feel good. The more your tip the better you feel. OP go back and top up that tip now!

[woodstock827]

While I believe the current tipping culture is going too far, I wouldn't go as far as eliminating tips all together. I remember when I first came to Canada ~13yrs ago, people said 15% pretax for a fine dining is regular... nowadays I'm hearing 20%+ is the regular.
If I go to a casual restaurant where all the waiter/ress did was take my order and bring me food like most Chinese restaurant, why should I tip the same amount as a "white" restaurant where they actually ask how I like my food and if I want cheese on my pasta? 10% is what I usually tip for average service. A simple smile usually makes me tip more (10% post-tax). I don't want tip culture eliminated because I want the bad servers know that they are really doing a bad job when I tip them low or don't tip at all.

When I went to Japan, I tried to tip because their service was so good, but they won't take the tip.

[Spidey]

So what do you consider "not that much/a lot"? Are you talking about less than 10%?

And you don't tip at all, usually, in restaurants out of town? I see the point as you won't see them again but I don't think *I* could ever do that, myself.

If I dont have any loonies or toonies in my wallet, I leave nothing. The tip I leave takes money from paying for a babysitter if we need some, or the cab ride to pay them to go home.

Sometimes I leave nothing, sometimes I do, depends on my mood and the cash situation at the time.

Like someone said above, you get your wage and if you dont like it, get another job. I used to work crap jobs when i was young and I never got tips, why should the food industry

[Digo]

When I went to Japan, I tried to tip because their service was so good, but they won't take the tip.

Why can't we expect that here without tipping?

[manixc]

I usually do 10% then round it up to a nice number. It's much easier to do the math this way.

and of course, if the waitress is hot, more tips.

[gamer123]

I just heard from a friend that "10% tip" is based on price before tax, which does make sense.

A tip is for extra works done, because salary already covers what s/he is suppose to do for the job. The norm maybe 10% but it definitely isn't a must.

When "yum cha" we usually tip slightly less than 10% so it's easy to round. But what we hate is when waiter/waitress stands there and wait for the change and/or giving us attitudes indirectly towards the "lack" of tips.

[hehehaha]

A tip is for extra works done, because salary already covers what s/he is suppose to do for the job. The norm maybe 10% but it definitely isn't a must.




hmmm...i think the server's salary is less than the Minimum wage, so i think we kinda have to tip?

if i don't tip, i feel bad for the server, especially when they provided a good service. If i tipped too much, i would feel bad for myself :lol:

[gamer123]

hmmm...i think the server's salary is less than the Minimum wage, so i think we kinda have to tip?

if i don't tip, i feel bad for the server, especially when they provided a good service. If i tipped too much, i would feel bad for myself :lol:

I am not sure about the min wage part, but if s/he accepts the job then that's the way it is. They maybe thinking their salary is salary + tips, and that's where good service comes in. Good service deserves my tip. In the previous post I mentioned that I have experience server giving me attitudes regarding the tip that I already gave. Though I never have done this and would hate to do so, I am very aware that I can take away all the change anytime.

[Ma_Jie]

It's true: the server min. wage I think is like $6.80 while general min. wage is like $8.75 I think.

[Legend24]

Waitresses and waiters do have a lower minimum wage because it is assumed that they will be tipped. In the US, the government assumes that the average tip is about 8% pre-tax. And if a waiter/waitress does not make their regular wage plus at least 8%, the restaurant is responsible for paying the difference.

The same thing might apply in Canada since both countries have similar customs when it comes to tipping. You're also required to report your tips as part of your income. I'm pretty sure people report the bare minimum to avoid suspicion, which is another reason why tips should be eliminated in favour of wage increases. When you do the math (I'm not going to do it), 30% (random number) of their total salary probably consists of tips for which they are not paying income tax on. That's a lot of money coming in...

[teknoluv]

Smple. If you CARE about how your friends (who dine with you) think, THEN tip more when you're with them. Alternatively, find yourself some new friends.

[cheeseshredder]

It's true: the server min. wage I think is like $6.80 while general min. wage is like $8.75 I think.

Not everywhere, some places in the states have server min. wage the same as general min. wage. In Canada, it should depend on the province.

[Jkim]

I work at a restaurant as a server that I've been working for 2 weeks now.

Waitering isn't all bout bringing out food to your table. We constantly run other people's food and clean up the pop machine/duties when we close up.

In the restaurant that I work at we have to bring our own float. If people don't tip us, at all lets say it comes out of our money. Why? here's the break down.
1% goes to the bartender, 2.25% goes to the restaurant. (This is coming from where I work at keep in mind)

A poster mentioned how it isn't our fault when food comes late its true. Order's get backed up especially if there's a party of people. Food will come a bit later then usual.

I do agree that if service is #$@ I wouldn't be tipping, but if the service was average (checking up on you every 20 minutes of your meal) then 10% would be acceptable However, if the server did excellent service (ex; re-filling your drink before your drink is empty) I would tip 15% or more if they have a fun light or try to casual talk with me.

If you think waitering is a simple task, try it for a week. And btw, since this is a tipping topic, how much do you guys tip when you get a drink at a club? I'm pretty damn sure most of you will tip and all their doing for you guys is pouring drinks or opening a bottle of beer. Simple task yet I don't see a thread about complaints on tipping in clubs.

Finally, for those that say dining out is too expensive if you add in cost of the food + tip, DON'T DINE IN. Go do TAKE OUT or go to mc.dicks or some fast food place instead.

[Azxster]

Waitering isn't all bout bringing out food to your table. We constantly run other people's food and clean up the pop machine/duties when we close up.


You are hired to do that... baristas have to clean washrooms and takeout the trash, sales associates have to clean up to make the store look presentable for the next day, etc...

[Jkim]

You are hired to do that... baristas have to clean washrooms and takeout the trash, sales associates have to clean up to make the store look presentable for the next day, etc...

-.-" yes I know but someone mentioned on how waiters ONLY bring out food which isn't the case =p

[TechRock]

While I believe the current tipping culture is going too far, I wouldn't go as far as eliminating tips all together. I remember when I first came to Canada ~13yrs ago, people said 15% pretax for a fine dining is regular... nowadays I'm hearing 20%+ is the regular.
If I go to a casual restaurant where all the waiter/ress did was take my order and bring me food like most Chinese restaurant, why should I tip the same amount as a "white" restaurant where they actually ask how I like my food and if I want cheese on my pasta? 10% is what I usually tip for average service. A simple smile usually makes me tip more (10% post-tax). I don't want tip culture eliminated because I want the bad servers know that they are really doing a bad job when I tip them low or don't tip at all.

When I went to Japan, I tried to tip because their service was so good, but they won't take the tip.

damn, i wish i live in japan..for me, 10% of the total bill is enough

[hwoarang]

Question: how many people, who think 10% is OK, assuming average or good service, have worked in that industry? Not tipping well enough, as long as the service wasn't horrible, is appalling: people depend on those tips to live -- and some of you won't get that until you actually are involved in the industry. Also, for those who tip for slow service, it's not always the waiter's fault: if the kitchen's slammed, and in the weeds, what is he supposed to do? Go on the line and make your entree specially for you?

- Jie

P.S. For average/standard service, I give 15%; and if it is great service, I'll give 20%. But to give only 10, no offence, is cheap. If you can't afford to tip 15%, considering decent service, why eat out? Cook at home, and save that 10% -- thosepennies might come in handy one day.

-1

[Stunt_101]

not another tipping thread
you tip the amount that you feel the waiter or waitress deserves, it can vary.

The poll is flawed. It's missing the option to vote for "Crap, not another thread about tipping".

LMFAO + 1

[alv077]

It's funny when servers complain on these forums about how they deserve tips and have "low wages" and do hard work.

I work in a restaurant and the amount of tips these people get are insane. So around minimum wage + tips = a lot more than most people think.

+1. Pretty much all jobs are hard work. Many people can say, "Oh! That office worker just SITS there and looks at papers and pokes at the keyboard"

The difference is that the office drone most likely needed specific education and training for the job. He/She cannot be replaced by a random person. In addition, being a waiter is demanding in terms of stress and finesse... no one is saying that is not true. However, many waiters make it sound like people in other professions do not face stress. Your rude customers do not return every day - in the office, you may have crappy coworkers that you have to face every single day.

Let's face it... being a waiter is an entry level job that has no educational requirements. Yes, it is unfortunate that people need to feed their family on that income... but so does the person working at timmies. If you say that the stress should make the profession well-paid, what about telemarketers that need to meet quotas constantly facing angry people (like myself) and rejection? How about lifeguards that have to take crap from morons that break rules while having to begrudgingly jump in to save their asses?

Yep. I'm going to get a LOT of hate from people working in the food services industry now. This topic always ends up going like this:

A: "So are you saying that I do not deserve to be able to have a decent living?"
B: "Well... you are in an entry level position that requires no educational requirements and no certifications of any kind..."
A: "You're an awful person! You want me and my family to starve and die!"

$40 per table, 3 tables... 10% of $120 is $12 added to your base of $6 something.

To make it easy, lets say $18. That is almost a salary of $33,000... which will hardly be taxed.


Take a look.
http://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html
Retail Sales / Sales Clerk $12
Data Entry Clerk $13
Accounting Clerk $16
Bookkeeper $16
Truck Driver $19
Plumber $22
Carpenter $22
Electrician $23
Executive Assistant $28
Social Worker $28
Architect $26
Registered Nurse $27
Physiotherapist $27
Computer Engineer (not software) $41
Engineering Manager $45
Computer and Info Systems Manager $37
Lawyer $35
Dentist $60

That is roughly on the level as tradespeople/college grads.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labor50a.htm

[ahTin1257]

to be honest
i work from a waiter to a bartender, now a manager
big restuarants will receive more tips, as someone have said, maybe $150-200 for a busy nite.
but normal "asian" restuarants get nth more than 10% from customers
well... most of my customers are kids too~ so way less than that.
i get around...$40 for a friday nite? lol

however, i realize that it doesn't really matter
its usually how the customers treat the server that makes a diff.
everyone likes nice and polite server
vice versa, all the servers love easy going customers
just give the waiter a damn big smile and praise the food alittle
i'm sure they won't give a damn how much u tip them :D

[teknoluv]

Question: how many people, who think 10% is OK, assuming average or good service, have worked in that industry? Not tipping well enough, as long as the service wasn't horrible, is appalling: people depend on those tips to live -- and some of you won't get that until you actually are involved in the industry.

-1
-2

Sorry, but this is NOT charity. It does NOT matter AT ALL (i.e. TOTALLY irrelevant) whether the server can make a living or not.

[iluvmikeharris]

In the restaurant that I work at we have to bring our own float. If people don't tip us, at all lets say it comes out of our money. Why? here's the break down.
1% goes to the bartender, 2.25% goes to the restaurant. (This is coming from where I work at keep in mind)


So the customer should feel bad that you've agreed to a stupid arrangement? You've agreed to give a percentage of money that you're not guaranted to receive in the first place.

[Jkim]

So the customer should feel bad that you've agreed to a stupid arrangement? You've agreed to give a percentage of money that you're not guaranted to receive in the first place.

ugh -.- I'm not ranting about not receiving tips if i dont get any. I'm just telling you guys sheesh. Like I said, I think most ppl don't know that waiters have to share their tips or lose their own $$ that's my point. Anyways, receiving 0 tip the entire shift that a waiter works are rare anyway.

[st7860]

So the customer should feel bad that you've agreed to a stupid arrangement? You've agreed to give a percentage of money that you're not guaranted to receive in the first place.

+1

[Mattones]

Anything under 100 i only give 5 bucks. thats just me.

[yawn]

I give what the total tax comes up to...... I think it is about 15%...
My boyfriend says it's too much :P
But I would feel bad if I don't give enough tip.

[Sprite_TM]

im sure a lot of people will disagree with me but i think tips should be built into the menu. it seems our culture in canada here is that you HAVE to pay tips at a restaurant but i dont agree that waiters deserve it. i pay tips but i just dont think its justified.

[YLSF]

There was an article in the Toronto Star that recommended 15% AFTER TAX.. I thought that was crazy... I used to do the tax... but, now in ontario the tax has dropped to 13% so I still do the "Tax" (i.e. 13% before tax) but will round it up a bit more....

Prefer the european method myself too.. Service fees INCLUDED in price...

[untaka]

I'm always fair with tipping and give the standard 0%. Consider I always pay for my meals.

[woodstock827]

...
In the restaurant that I work at we have to bring our own float. If people don't tip us, at all lets say it comes out of our money. Why? here's the break down.
1% goes to the bartender, 2.25% goes to the restaurant. (This is coming from where I work at keep in mind)
...

so the owner is taking part of the tips? I think that's illegal iirc...
bring your own float? what kind of arrangement is that??? call up the ministry of labour and report on them.

[board123]

The waiters should tip me for not making a scene about the absurdity of tips.

[little-fish]

Why can't we expect that here without tipping?

Like someone said above, you get your wage and if you dont like it, get another job. I used to work crap jobs when i was young and I never got tips, why should the food industry

+1

If waitresses/waiters are expecting tips no matter what, why should they go extra miles to earn them. How is it justified to the customers, which they are just paying another tax on top of GST/PST.

I dont buy that when someone said "because you live in north america"..
so do you tip the cashiers at the groceries, etc too?

So, either raise the minimum hourly wages, or go get another job.

[ullyeus]

Question: how many people, who think 10% is OK, assuming average or good service, have worked in that industry? Not tipping well enough, as long as the service wasn't horrible, is appalling: people depend on those tips to live -- and some of you won't get that until you actually are involved in the industry. Also, for those who tip for slow service, it's not always the waiter's fault: if the kitchen's slammed, and in the weeds, what is he supposed to do? Go on the line and make your entree specially for you?

- Jie

P.S. For average/standard service, I give 15%; and if it is great service, I'll give 20%. But to give only 10, no offence, is cheap. If you can't afford to tip 15%, considering decent service, why eat out? Cook at home, and save that 10% -- thosepennies might come in handy one day.

So when things go good he should get a tip...

when they go bad it's not his fault and he should still get a tip?

I have never been in an industry deemed "tip worthy" but don't find that relevant.

[ullyeus]

I do agree that if service is #$@ I wouldn't be tipping, but if the service was average (checking up on you every 20 minutes of your meal) then 10% would be acceptable However, if the server did excellent service (ex; re-filling your drink before your drink is empty) I would tip 15% or more if they have a fun light or try to casual talk with me.

If you think waitering is a simple task, try it for a week. And btw, since this is a tipping topic, how much do you guys tip when you get a drink at a club? I'm pretty damn sure most of you will tip and all their doing for you guys is pouring drinks or opening a bottle of beer. Simple task yet I don't see a thread about complaints on tipping in clubs.



I don't consider a refill "excellent" I consider it the basic minimum a waiter could do.

If it's a local pub I will tip a few dollars on my tab at the end of hte night, if its a nightclub they don't get anything.

Casual talk? yeah...I really need to pay people to talk with me...

[board123]

I don't even want them to talk to me. I just want my food.

[cyrene]

Tips should be really treated by staff as gravy and not money expected. If mediocre service results in no or very little tip, immediately many think the customers are cheap and not because the service provided is mediocre. Why should mediocre still get 10% EXTRA? I tip more if the server has gone through some extra troubles, like if I made special requests for my order, asked for extra things like forks and napkins, got extra colouring pages and crayons for the kids, etc.

[Tekkan]

Bad service = no tip.
mediocre Service = 10-15% tip
Good Service = 15+

Though my expectations of what good service should be also varies on type of restaurants.

i.e At Fine dining restaurants, I expect everything short of the waiter cutting my steak and feeding me.

At buffets, if my drink is refilled and my dirty plates are gone before i return from my next round of food, I'm happy.

[JeVartan]

So when things go good he should get a tip...

when they go bad it's not his fault and he should still get a tip?




HAHAHA Good point!!

[Digo]

At buffets, if my drink is refilled and my dirty plates are gone before i return from my next round of food, I'm happy.

I don't tip at buffets. Seriously, what is it exactly that we are tipping on? What are these 'servers/waiters' paid to do if not take our dishes and refill water?

This tipping thing has gone too far, perpetuated by ourselves believing if we don't tip we would look cheap.

I like the grocery store concept. You go to No Frills you expect cheap prices but crappy service and the place isn't that clean. Whereas if you go to the higher end stores like Sobeys you pay more but the place is cleaner and better service.

[at1212b]

I think if you don't go out too often, and its a special occaision, and the service was good, then its a good time to tip well.

But the tipping culture is getting ridiculous.. this sense of entitlement. Some servers seriously have no idea how the real world works and real world economics. There's no guilt that they don't pay taxes on it, and again feel entitled that less taxes should be paid by them.

Its all like a hungry dog wanting or thinking they deserve more and more scraps of meat. Now if you really work hard, have a sense of genuity to it,then that should be more rewarded.

There's also another stupid statment I hear ppl say something.... "Tip the tax". That's ******** bc you're telling me some ppl deserve a better tip as a baseline just bc they live in a jurisdiction where the taxes are higher?

[cheeseshredder]

In BC at least, tips are in addition to the regular minimum wage.. And tips are between $50-200 a night. I'm talking about the chain restaurants, but then again the people who seem to be whining about tips work at those sorts of establishments. :lol: