So my father caught and caged 2 wild cardinals...

[DeimosBeros]

Let me start by saying my old man got into the hobby of collecting and breeding birds. Right now, he's got 6 love birds, more coming on the way and 1 budgie he picked up off the street.

I come home from work and see ANOTHER cage with a rag on covering it. Lo and behold, 2 beautiful red northern cardinals going crazy inside.
I live in Toronto and seeing colorful birds like cardinals and blue jays(had the pleasure of seeing a migration of 14+ jays last year) are rare occurrences so it hurts me to see these kind of animals caged up when they're meant to be free. I don't know, it's the tree hugger inside of me that just won't go away.

Well, he's planning on going to western Europe tomorrow for a couple of months so this might be perfect timing for me to release the birds.

Am I right in doing so? It's not my house for starters so who am I to be doing the deed any way, and he'll be mad as hell. He caught them fair and square, sure, lured them into a cage with seed and released the cantrip.

***UPDATE***

Seems I didn't have to do much. I explained to my mother that the birds were going to die in the cage since they were already matured in the wild. So she released them this morning. Not sure the old man knows yet, but good news even if he does!
Knowing him, he wouldn't want to be responsible for killing an animal he wasn't going to eat.

[thezone]

I personally think they belong free in the wild. Wild animals should remain wild and I just have some gut feeling that it might be illegal to capture a wild cardinal.

[AcidBomber]

Yeh, i would release them if they were already in the wild... Won't be used to the whole feeding/living with people environment. :|
Might even be illegal to catch birds? :confused:

[Mario38]

Yes, please release the birds.

[The Rochester Mirkins]

I believe that the red cardinals are male. They are probably kicking the crap out of wach other to prove dominance. Set them free...

[chrza]

Totally illegal and totally cruel to capture wild birds here. Set them free for sure. He has no right to do that.

It may not be your house, but these birds weren't his to cage in the first place.

The bird trade is a horrible one. Birds aren't meant to be in cages. My dumb parents got a love bird a couple years ago that recently died because it flew in a chair in the house.

[ADIL86]

You are crossing your father for some birds? It is his place and you would be out of line to go behind his back. If you want to do the right thing then confront your dad, and tell him how you feel to his face. Otherwise, you ought to bite the bullet on this one.

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

You are crossing your father for some birds? It is his place and you would be out of line to go behind his back. If you want to do the right thing then confront your dad, and tell him how you feel to his face. Otherwise, you ought to bite the bullet on this one.

I'm glad you are not Paul Bernardo's son covering up his crimes for the sake of loyalty to dear father.

[user01]

Release it, your old man is endangering the bird species.

[Tha DraGun]

I feel the same way, talk to your father. Don't just release them without asking.

I'm glad you are not Paul Bernardo's son covering up his crimes for the sake of loyalty to dear father.

The comparison is a little off there I think. That's kinda harsh. They are just birds! Yah, they should be out in the wild and its quite possibly illegal but he's not torturing them or killing them. You buy birds in the stores and they are in cages. Only difference is they are not "wild".

If your kid caught a turtle and stuck it in a fish tank would you just release it? It's cruel to keep a turtle in a tank when it's used to being in the wild... or how about a rabbit, or a snake. Why are birds so different?

I do agree the birds should be set free, but the father should set them free.

[robertalan]

Admins, please notify the authorities regarding this illegal act.

[Dustbunny]

I don't know a lot about birds but it would seem to me that especially during mating season he has no right to cage those wild birds. They may have a nest they are taking care of for one which could mean starvation for chicks and the mates. For two if they are migrating birds there may well be some laws about capturing or anything else which affects them. I know here it's illegal to take down migrating bird nests when the birds are using them (no big deal with the ones that don't migrate though).

You might want to call the local wildlife officials (probably part of the provincial gov't ) and ask if this is covered by any laws. You don't have to report your dad, but get the facts and see if he'll release them. If that doesn't work appeal to whatever sense he has including what his friends and neighbours might think of him doing such a thing to wild birds.

[Techhead]

I believe that the red cardinals are male. They are probably kicking the crap out of wach other to prove dominance. Set them free...

You are right, the Red Cardinals are males and will continue to fight for dominence. May be even till one is dead.
Confront your dad and threaten to call animal controll on him if he doies not let them go.

[teknoluv]

Well, he's planning on going to western Europe tomorrow for a couple of months so this might be perfect timing for me to release the birds.
I feel sorry for you guys. Amen.

[Horndogg]

Let me start by saying my old man got into the hobby of collecting and breeding birds. Right now, he's got 6 love birds, more coming on the way and 1 budgie he picked up off the street.

I come home from work and see ANOTHER cage with a rag on covering it. Lo and behold, 2 beautiful red northern cardinals going crazy inside.
I live in Toronto and seeing colorful birds like cardinals and blue jays(had the pleasure of seeing a migration of 14+ jays last year) are rare occurrences so it hurts me to see these kind of animals caged up when they're meant to be free. I don't know, it's the tree hugger inside of me that just won't go away.

Well, he's planning on going to western Europe tomorrow for a couple of months so this might be perfect timing for me to release the birds.

Am I right in doing so? It's not my house for starters so who am I to be doing the deed any way, and he'll be mad as hell. He caught them fair and square, sure, lured them into a cage with seed and released the cantrip.

I just don't know!

That is so crule. Hope you don't mind me saying so. And yes the red cardinal is a male, the reddish brown one is a female. He is NOT going to bread two males together. Please let them free. If they were meant to be caged GOD would have put them there. Just my opinion. Thanks

[ElChico]

Yes if they are Red, then they are two males. It is breeding season, so their mates are probably trying to raise their brood solo (the females may kill or let the chicks starve if the males don't return). The Cardinals should be released immediately.

[pkguy]

Your fathers an idiot capturing wild birds in breeding season. On top of that any bird breeder who knows the least thing about breeding birds is that you never ever ever ever bring other birds into your house without them first being quarantined.

[chrome_dout]

Set them free please.

[hot_potato]

If you want to give your dad an excuse, tell them that they both died (from fighting each other or whatever) and you threw their carcasses out before it stunk up the basement. (But in reality, you would only set them free...)

If you are man enough, just tell him you released them because that was the right thing to do.

Alternatively, if you need further justification tell your dad you read on the Ontario government website that it is illegal to capture wild birds without a proper license and poachers face a heavy fine and possible jail time. Tell him you don't want to see him go to jail...

[UrbanPoet]

Thats really bad.... please convince him to let them go.
Its illegal to capture wild animals (unless authourized for profession or via specific conservation licenses).

[JAC]

Does Hallmark make a "Sorry your dad's an a**hole card?

[v_tofu]

This reminds me of the time when i saw a somewhat elderly couple corral 2 canadian geese into their car. Though I imagine they were not kept as pets.

[gizmo8]

Just released them and tell your dad one got sicked and you were afraid it might spread to his other birds...you should never capture wild animals thinking you can make it domestic..:evil:

[Mgz]

It is the norm in Asian culture, especially among old people in their 50s/60s

I even know some of those prized birds eat better stuff than us. :(

[Nikita]

I'm glad you are not Paul Bernardo's son covering up his crimes for the sake of loyalty to dear father.

HA! Holy crap what a stretch! And probably the most ridiculous analogy ever!

Yes, it's wrong for your dad to catch/keep the birds. But it's not up to you to right that wrong. Talk to him and try to convince him to do the right thing but personally, my dad on one hand, a couple birds on the other....yeah my dad would take precedence. It's just not your place to do anything except try to convince him to release them.

[DeimosBeros]

Admins, please notify the authorities regarding this illegal act.

I'm still laughing at this one. :lol:

Does Hallmark make a "Sorry your dad's an a**hole card?

He's really anything but an a-hole, just old fashioned farm boy from europe who misses his pet crow, cows, pigs, rabbits from decades ago. I hope you understand.
Still doesn't excuse this little event for sure.

[bionicbadger]

thems gud eatin'.....
http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pbxbFBxGR4zo5zr9j1NcwlowwL14N5iUEduLsKG1HjN3R06t KyuXO2GcaxkENp9P-bTmWvZfbDb4

[CSK'sMom]

He's really anything but an a-hole, just old fashioned farm boy from europe who misses his pet crow, cows, pigs, rabbits from decades ago. I hope you understand.
Still doesn't excuse this little event for sure.

Then tell him to raise a couple of rabbits in the backyard in hutches or if your city allows it a few chickens. Never, ever take any animal from the wild. He's playing with fire with the MNR who will gladly come after him and make an example of him (think Bob the Moose among others). Please don't call him a breeder either, as no self-respecting breeder would ever do such a thing and they usually know the diference between a male and female. ;)

[DeimosBeros]

Then tell him to raise a couple of rabbits in the backyard in hutches or if your city allows it a few chickens. Never, ever take any animal from the wild. He's playing with fire with the MNR who will gladly come after him and make an example of him (think Bob the Moose among others). Please don't call him a breeder either, as no self-respecting breeder would ever do such a thing and they usually know the diference between a male and female. ;)

1. I think it's illegal to raise live stock in toronto. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2. I never called him a breeder. I said he breeds birds, particularly love birds.

[boyoflondon]

You are crossing your father for some birds? It is his place and you would be out of line to go behind his back. If you want to do the right thing then confront your dad, and tell him how you feel to his face. Otherwise, you ought to bite the bullet on this one.


What are you talking about?!?!
You can't always bend over and obey by your parents beliefs/rules, especially not in this case.

OP and his mom did the right thing!

[CSK'sMom]

You'd have to check with your particular city about the chickens. Global News recently did a piece about it. There are many, many folks in the GTA with backyard coops, legal or not. There is also a movement in the whole province to allow this as the whole "local" food movement takes off and is supported by gov't (announcement yesterday about truthful "product of" labelling)...

As a side note, here in Niagara Falls I can actually keep up to 20 chickens and even a goat if I choose to! :cheesygri ;)

edited to add: rabbits are considered pets pretty much everywhere, not livestock. It's not unusual to see 30 or 40 rabbits being raised in some ethnic backyards as they are raised for food.

[ullyeus]

eat them.

[DeimosBeros]

You'd have to check with your particular city about the chickens. Global News recently did a piece about it. There are many, many folks in the GTA with backyard coops, legal or not. There is also a movement in the whole province to allow this as the whole "local" food movement takes off and is supported by gov't (announcement yesterday about truthful "product of" labelling)...

As a side note, here in Niagara Falls I can actually keep up to 20 chickens and even a goat if I choose to! :cheesygri ;)

edited to add: rabbits are considered pets pretty much everywhere, not livestock. It's not unusual to see 30 or 40 rabbits being raised in some ethnic backyards as they are raised for food.

Ahh. Thanks for the info, I'll look into it more.

[chrza]

What are you talking about?!?!
You can't always bend over and obey by your parents beliefs/rules, especially not in this case.

OP and his mom did the right thing!

Word.

[aZian_]

Admins, please notify the authorities regarding this illegal act.

Thats a good one....

Why didn't you?

[h2o-]

can you report and get police (or humane society) to take your dad to jail?

[162]

give us your address, a turn-in-poacher call will get us some reward money!

[robertalan]

Thats a good one....

Why didn't you?

I don't have his contact info. If there were any other serious crime reported on RFD, would RFD shelter the perpetrator?

[RenegadeX]

OP updated Post-1 to say the situation is resolved, good.

Cardinals, and many other birds, are protected under the Migratory Birds Act - and as such there are potentially *substantial* penalties if you're caught with them in your possession, without a permit. In the OP's case, this is reason enough to tell a family member to release the birds - no excuses or "they might kill each other" reasoning is even necessary -- all it would take is for a repairman, contractor, or acquaintance(friend?) to see the caged birds while inside the home and 'rat' on him afterwards, and he'd be in big trouble. It is important that the OP's dad know that the birds were released in HIS best interest, not just the birds - otherwise, he'll likely to continue the illegal behaviour.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/M-7.01///en
Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994
1994, c. 22, M-7.01

"PROTOCOL BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA
AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
AMENDING THE 1916 CONVENTION BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM
AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
FOR THE PROTECTION OF MIGRATORY BIRDS
IN CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES"

ARTICLE I

In order to update the listing of migratory birds included in the terms of this Convention in a manner consistent with their current taxonomic (Family and Subfamily) status, Article I of the Convention is deleted and replaced by the following:

The High Contracting Powers declare that the migratory birds included in the terms of this Convention shall be as follows:

1. Migratory Game Birds:Anatidae, or waterfowl (ducks, geese and swans); Gruidae, or cranes (greater and lesser sandhill and whooping cranes); Rallidae, or rails (coots, gallinules and rails); Charadriidae, Haematopodidae, Recurvirostridae, and Scolopacidae, or shorebirds (including plovers and lapwings, oystercatchers, stilts and avocets, and sandpipers and allies); and Columbidae (doves and wild pigeons).

2. Migratory Insectivorous Birds:Aegithalidae (long-tailed tits and bushtits); Alaudidae (larks); Apodidae (swifts); Bombycillidae (waxwings); Caprimulgidae (goatsuckers); Certhiidae (creepers); Cinclidae (dippers); Cuculidae (cuckoos); Emberizidae (including the emberizid sparrows, wood-warblers, tanagers, cardinals and grosbeaks and allies, bobolinks, meadowlarks, and orioles, but not including blackbirds); Fringillidae (including the finches and grosbeaks); Hirundinidae (swallows); Laniidae (shrikes); Mimidae (catbirds, mockingbirds, thrashers, and allies); Motacillidae (wagtails and pipits); Muscicapidae (including the kinglets, gnatcatchers, robins, and thrushes); Paridae (titmice); Picidae (woodpeckers and allies); Sittidae (nuthatches); Trochilidae (hummingbirds); Troglodytidae (wrens); Tyrannidae (tyrant flycatchers); and Vireonidae (vireos).
3. Other Migratory Nongame Birds:Alcidae (auks, auklets, guillemots, murres, and puffins); Ardeidae (bitterns and herons); Hydrobatidae (storm petrels); Procellariidae (petrels and shearwaters); Sulidae (gannets); Podicipedidae (grebes); Laridae (gulls, jaegers, and terns); and Gaviidae (loons).
Prohibition:5. Except as authorized by the regulations, no person shall, without lawful excuse, (a) be in possession of a migratory bird or nest; or (b) buy, sell, exchange or give a migratory bird or nest or make it the subject of a commercial transaction.Possession, defined:(2) For the purposes of this Act, (a) a person has anything in possession when the person has it in their personal possession or knowingly (i) has it in the actual possession or custody of another person, or (ii) has it in any place, whether or not that place belongs to or is occupied by the person, for their own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another person; and(b) where a person has anything in their possession or custody with the knowledge and consent of another person or other persons, it is in the possession and custody of each and all of them... so your mother, assuming she lives with your father, being aware of the birds, was "in possession" by law and just as culpable. And if they both went away and left you in charge of checking in on the house and the birds, then you would be responsible, in addition to them. And thus, should the father have refused to release the birds if/when asked, it'd have been GOOD reason for the OP, or his mother, to have released the birds in the father's absence (provided, of course, that they were certain he'd not got and left behind a valid permit).

Penalties & Punishment:Contravention of Act or regulations

13(1.1) Every person or vessel that commits an offence is liable (a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than three years, or to both; and (b) on summary conviction, to a fine of not more than $300,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both... for EACH bird in violation:Fines cumulative
13(4) Any fine imposed for an offence involving more than one migratory bird or nest may be calculated in respect of each one as though it had been the subject of a separate information and the fine then imposed is the total of that calculation.Sentencing considerations:13(4.1) A court that imposes a sentence shall take the following factors into account, in addition to any other principles that it is required to consider: (a) the harm or risk of harm caused by the commission of the offence; (b) whether the offender was found to have committed the offence intentionally, recklessly or inadvertently; (c) whether the offender was found to have been negligent or incompetent or to have shown a lack of concern with respect to the commission of the offence; (d) any property, benefit or advantage received or receivable by the offender to which, but for the commission of the offence, the offender would not have been entitled; (e) any evidence from which the court may reasonably conclude that the offender has a history of non-compliance with this Act or the regulations; and (f) all available sanctions that are reasonable in the circumstances, with particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders.
Also as an FYI: under the Migratory Birds Regulations, C.R.C., c.1035, which goes into greater detail about the Act, the following definition appears:"hunt" means chase, pursue, worry, follow after or on the trail of, lie in wait for, or attempt in any manner to capture, kill, injure or harass a migratory bird, whether or not the migratory bird is captured, killed or injured.. which would mean that the act of baiting a cage would also be illegal, without a permit, under Section 5 of the Regulation. Violations of the Regulations are punishable by fines of up to $1000:5. (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall hunt a migratory bird except under authority of a permit therefor. (2) In the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, a resident of the Province may, without a permit, hunt murres for human food only. (3) No person shall hunt a migratory game bird unless he is the holder of a migratory game bird hunting permit.
I'll tell ya something else: cardinals may be on the Migratory Birds List, but at least 4 in the vicinity of my garden are quite happy living here all year long. The law is a little unfair in that regards - it blankets a whole family of birds without consideration for the differences in geography and climate across Canada. But the law is the law, and unless you're personally interested in taking action to set about changes to it, no caged cardinals.

Too bad, too - they're cute, they sing, and if you have a male & female pair, they're extremely loving of each other.

[iluvmikeharris]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

Kentucky
Fried
Cardinal

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060613/060613_kfc_fat_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

[Horndogg]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

Kentucky
Fried
Cardinal

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060613/060613_kfc_fat_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

Ha Ha LMAO that is too funny.

[George W. Bush]

I personally think they belong free in the wild. Wild animals should remain wild and I just have some gut feeling that it might be illegal to capture a wild cardinal.

Yes, that is CORRECT.

[JAC]

I don't have his contact info. If there were any other serious crime reported on RFD, would RFD shelter the perpetrator?

I don't think RFD will divulge any info without a warrant.

[mrG]

It is very unhealthy to take an animal out of the wild and to cage it. My grandfather used to have traps around his cottage to catch rodents and stuff, and one time it caught a squirrel. The squirrel, when caught, went so absolutely insane running around the cage that it eventually died (from exaustion? stress?). The birds he caught are probably doing the same thing.. probably freaking out because they aren't used to being so enclosed.

[3weddings]

***UPDATE***

Seems I didn't have to do much. I explained to my mother that the birds were going to die in the cage since they were already matured in the wild. So she released them this morning. Not sure the old man knows yet, but good news even if he does!
Knowing him, he wouldn't want to be responsible for killing an animal he wasn't going to eat.

Thank God someone has some common sense at your house!!! Your father should be ashamed of himself, he really should.

[jayk]

I hope you let them free. That is really cruel of your father. It's like if someone put a bag over you and put you in a metal cage for the rest of your life, fed you the same **** everyday, and let you sit in your own feces...