Imagine Loosing 1/3 of your hourly wage after going on strike

[nano]

I was in Detroit over the weekend, employees of a company called American Axle and Manufacturing has been on strike since mid February. The employees are striking over the normal things wages and benefits. The company is offering buyouts and $18.50/hr down from $28.00.


Axle Workers Begin Voting on New Contract

Last Update: 5:38 pm
DETROIT (AP) - Striking workers at American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc. began voting Monday on a new contract with the auto parts maker that would cut their pay by about one-third.

United Auto Workers at the Detroit Forge plant and a factory in Three Rivers started casting ballots in the morning.

But the vote that could end the bitter 83-day strike won't end until Thursday evening when Local 235 in Hamtramck, the largest local at the company, wraps up its balloting.

About 3,600 workers walked off their jobs Feb. 26 in the wage-and-benefit dispute that has featured name-calling and threats by the company to move work to other countries.

The strike caused a parts shortage that crippled production of General Motors Corp.'s pickup trucks and full-size SUVs. More than 30 factories were affected and thousands of workers for GM and other parts suppliers were laid off.

Detroit-based American Axle makes axles, drive shafts and stabilizer bars mainly for GM's pickup trucks and large sport utility vehicles. GM accounts for about 80 percent of its business.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger and other union officials explained the deal to Detroit workers at a high school on Sunday. The meeting was punctuated by anger and shouting, and most workers leaving the session said they didn't like the four-year deal.

But many said they'll vote for it because it's the best the union could get in a weak economy with the possibility of American Axle moving their work elsewhere. Others said they will vote to stay on strike.

"I think by and large most people will vote for it," Bill Alford, president-elect of Local 235, said Monday. "They understand the way things are right now. People are making their own decisions. You're going to get a lot of 'no's,' but I think for the most part, it'll go through."

Local 235, with 1,983 members, is by far the largest local and likely will have the final say on the deal. But Alford said that depends on how many members show up to vote.

Some who are looking for better-paying jobs may not vote, Alford said.

GM said it lost $800 million in the first quarter and produced 230,000 fewer vehicles due to the strike.

The automaker has fully or partially closed more than 30 factories due to parts shortages from the strike, although it has been able to keep many plants running on one shift with parts from American Axle's Mexican facilities.

On Monday, GM brought back one shift at the Moraine, Ohio, mid-sized SUV plant, and last week one shift returned to its large van assembly plant in Wentzville, Mo.

GM spokesman Dan Flores would not comment on when other idled plants and shifts would return to work.

Even with the strike approaching three months, GM's inventory of large SUVs and trucks hasn't been affected much, mainly because high gasoline prices have kept people from buying less fuel-efficient vehicles.

Just after the strike began, GM had more than a 150-day supply of pickups and more than 100 days worth of the SUVs. But as of early April, the company still had 122 days worth of Chevrolet Silverado pickups and 188 days worth of GMC Yukon large SUVs, according to Wards AutoInfoBank. A 60-day supply is considered optimal in the auto business.

During the American Axle strike, workers at GM plants that make several hot-selling models walked off their jobs in local contract disputes. Industry analysts said the strikes were designed to draw GM into the American Axle dispute.

Production resumed Monday at a crossover vehicle plant in Delta Township near Lansing after workers ratified a new local agreement. But a local at a Kansas City, Kan., factory that makes the Chevrolet Malibu mid-sized sedan remained on strike.

UAW negotiators and American Axle agreed on a deal late Friday shortly after GM agreed to kick in $200 million to help end a stalemate between the company and union.

The deal cuts the hourly pay of a production worker in Detroit to $18.50 from $28. That's an increase from the $17 per hour that American Axle had been offering.

A summary of the deal also said there will be buyouts of $85,000 for someone with less than 10 years with the company and $140,000 for a worker with more.

An offer of a $55,000 early retirement bonus also was included in the proposed contract.

Workers also would get a wage "buydown" of up to $105,000 paid over three years to help ease the transition to lower hourly pay. The size of the buydown would vary with the size of a worker's pay reduction.

The deal features different pay rates at each of the company's U.S. locations.

The four-year agreement also closes American Axle's Detroit and Tonawanda, N.Y., forge operations. But the summary sheet says American Axle agreed to invest $170 million to $200 million in UAW-represented factories, and the company agreed to place some new business in the plants.

GM shares rose 19 cents to $20.87 Monday while American Axle shares fell $1.13, or 5 percent, to $21.42.

[hoopsandyoyo]

Good I am hugely agianst unions.

[profguy]

I was in Detroit over the weekend, employees of a company called American Axle and Manufacturing has been on strike since mid February. The employees are striking over the normal things wages and benefits. The company is offering buyouts and $18.50/hr down from $28.00.

What's the problem. If the workers don't like it then strike (as they have) - if the employer can't pay then they will close and the workers will have to look for a new job - end of story.

Slavery ended a long time ago - if workers don't like the conditions then quit and find another job that's better.

Unions don't create the jobs businessmen do.

[koft]

Either Wage cut to allow the plant survive this current economic down turn

Or Maintain the same wage, and both sides lose.

[Ziggy007]

Again the auto union is pricing themselves out of work.

They constantly negotiate big rasises on top of already very high wages, and are shocked to find out there is 1000 layoffs.

It isn't like GM is rolling in cash right now, they are losing massive amounts of money and still offering a pretty fair amount of money considering they could probably move the plant to China and pay workers $18 a day instead.

[DBOi]

Good I am hugely agianst unions.

Agreed

You guys make too much money n aren't loyal or respect the companies you work for.....

[Error916]

Again the auto union is pricing themselves out of work.

They constantly negotiate big rasises on top of already very high wages, and are shocked to find out there is 1000 layoffs.

It isn't like GM is rolling in cash right now, they are losing massive amounts of money and still offering a pretty fair amount of money considering they could probably move the plant to China and pay workers $18 a day instead.

18 is a bit high, more like 1.8

[DBOi]

18 is a bit high, more like 1.8

18 rmb

[geronimo]

This is terrible, but you guys are too quick to blame the union. Both sides are to blame and need to work together better to resolve the issue.

[Grassgreen]

Good I am hugely agianst unions.

another +1

Serves these guys right. I think I'll go buy an axle just to support the business.

[jhan]

ECO200 - unions bring down the wage setting function. I guess it's true afterall.. :cheesygri

[Mulder and Scully]

What's the problem. If the workers don't like it then strike (as they have) - if the employer can't pay then they will close and the workers will have to look for a new job - end of story.

When has this ever actually happened?

Generally if a company's employees are unionized that means they're pretty large and are probably publicly traded. Management has a responsibility to shareholders and profitability and this pretty much ensures that they'll never just shut it all down just to spite striking workers.

[demrea]

id like to have a job that pays me 85k to leave OR 105k to agree to a pay decrease.

bring it on

[DBOi]

id like to have a job that pays me 85k to leave OR 105k to agree to a pay decrease.

bring it on

I wish i were in the manufacturing industry
do nothing n fall ass into money

[blizzack]

I wish i were in the manufacturing industry
do nothing n fall ass into money

And then fall out of work...

[adamtheman]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

[hoopsandyoyo]

How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

please tell me you're joking.
This is pretty close to commi thinking and comments.

[brucemeng]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

how about because there are something like 10 cashiers: 1 doctor? do you need ~8 years education/training to become a cashier?

[Octavius]

how about because there are something like 10 cashiers: 1 doctor? do you need ~8 years education/training to become a cashier?

Not to mention that if you screw up as a cashier, worst case scenario you've shortchanged someone (the customer or the store).

If you screw up as a doctor, you could potentially COMPLETELY ruin someone's life.

[Grassgreen]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

You're kidding right?

Say hi to Jack Layton at the next convention you're at.

[divx]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?
Yes, a doctor is worth 10 times as much as a cashier.

[hoopsandyoyo]

that reply is probably the dumbest I've seen in a while.....
made it my sig, to share the laughs with the rfd world

[Bazooka Joe]

Yes, a doctor is worth 10 times as much as a cashier.

Only 10 times?

Imagine you had cancer. Would 10 cashiers be able to help you? What about 20?

Imagine you needed to check out groceries. Would 1 doctor be able to help you?

[isom3tric]

Only 10 times?

Imagine you had cancer. Would 10 cashiers be able to help you? What about 20?

Imagine you needed to check out groceries. Would 1 doctor be able to help you?

You mean 1/10th of a doctor right ;)

[MoreMiles]

Most doctors graduate with a debt over $100,000 from education. They also enter work force 10 years later in their 30's while most people enter work force in their 20's. You do the math.

[cheapmeister]

Are all employers the same? NO!
Are all unions the same? NO!

They have huge differences in the management of companies out there. Most are like what the dog left on your lawn to clean up! For example: gov't's and how they run the country etc.

Unions are run like a business. They are good at times but I think they are still needed as employers only care about themselves and not about the people who are actually making the products (slavery technique). Thats why we have labour laws and safety standards. Look at the 3rd world- do China or India care if you wear safety glasses or workboots etc? Leaded paints, yikes!

[boyoflondon]

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?



I am still not getting over this statement. :confused:

For your sake, I will refrain from commenting any further ......... :!:

[profguy]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?


I hope you don't ever get really sick. But you can always get a cashier to treat you - they are a dime a dozen.

[profguy]

Unions have their purpose. Unions were created due to abuse by employers. The swing was too far in one direction. Now, almost 100 years later, you've got it going in the other direction, unions have too much power and employers not enough. It needs to be a give/take relationship.

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?


the real question is why do some unskilled workers get $28/hour and other unskilled like your "cashier" get $10/hour? why don't the uniions help their weaker memebers but instead the big unions get more and more.

[beerbaron105]

Good I am hugely agianst unions.

and you have never worked for an employer who made your life a nightmare because you had no representation.

[demrea]

and you have never worked for an employer who made your life a nightmare because you had no representation.

ok, so lets say one has worked for a employer who made ones life a nightmare.

are you an endentured slave? go get a different job, simple fix that does not require a union.

if enough people wont work for an employer because they dont treat staff right, they will either change or go out of business.

unions exists for those who dont bring their own value to an enterprise.

[bigwinner]

Hey, take it easy on the guy that put his foot in his mouth. I'm sure he wasn't really thinking when he chose "doctor" for his comparison. That's fix this and put this all back on track. We'll replace "doctor" with TTC employee. So ...

Is one TTC employee worth 5 cashiers?

[theastroboy]

Unions demand more and more because big corporations have deep pockets. You can organize at a smaller company too, but $28/hour will most likely drive it out of business.

The original intention of unions was good, but the power has been abused recently and is a burden to the society. It strikes me on how GM workers can ask for more during contract renewal while GM is posting huge losses. TTC workers sure take the spotlight these days. How do the TTC employees justify salary/benefit increases when TTC cannot even cope with the annual losses? Remember that booth collector making over $100,000? I am sure he works hard with 1000 hours of overtime (or does he? A Walmart cashier may be working harder...), but which manager (in a private corporation) in the right mind would even approve that? And what can this "hard-working" booth collector can do that most cashiers cannot?

What irritates me the most is the unions' double standards in its "fairness" talk. They insist on bringing the members' salary/benefit to a fair level. The only problem is the unions always look at similar jobs that are paying more, never less. Wouldn't the more realistic or representative figures be the mean or something along the line? Again, I still cannot see a TTC booth collector getting paid 3-4 times (before the overtime) than a McDonald cashier being fair. Both are unskilled workers, and they are readily replaceable with some trainings.

Some of their responses to justify their demand for more are so weak. One union member answered, "I have a mortgage to pay." And the rests of us don't?

[nookuwn]

Hey, take it easy on the guy that put his foot in his mouth. I'm sure he wasn't really thinking when he chose "doctor" for his comparison. That's fix this and put this all back on track. We'll replace "doctor" with TTC employee. So ...

Is one TTC employee worth 5 cashiers?

:cheesygri , could not be corrected better than that.

If anything cashiers work harder than TTC employees, hence should pay more. Unfortunately that's not the case.
These TTC workers don't even do their job properly, they should have more disciplines:
- taking coffee breaks on the job.
- one driver, just stall at every light for some reason.
- waited and waited and waited for a bus, then the whole fleet arrived, one time up to 4 of the same bus.
- etc.

[hoopsandyoyo]

and you have never worked for an employer who made your life a nightmare because you had no representation.

and you've never had the back bone to stick up for yourself,,,,,determine and drive your own self worth have you?

[beerbaron105]

and you've never had the back bone to stick up for yourself,,,,,determine and drive your own self worth have you?

its not me, i used to represent the labourers who didnt have that "backbone" you speak of....which i am assuming you are refering to their lowly wages and families they need to feed, which is the reason why they suck it up and continue working, because one missed paycheque would equal bankruptcy for them, but you wouldnt understand unless you have been there.

[beerbaron105]

all this anti-union talk disturbs me, but i guess if you have never had the substantial benefit plan they offer, the garaunteed retirement, and the higher wages that a union offers you, then by default, you would also be against it.

*shrugs*

to be honest, you must either be a business owner, or just stupid.

[hoopsandyoyo]

its not me, i used to represent the labourers who didnt have that "backbone" you speak of....which i am assuming you are refering to their lowly wages and families they need to feed, which is the reason why they suck it up and continue working, because one missed paycheque would equal bankruptcy for them, but you wouldnt understand unless you have been there.

not to sound aweful.....but why if you're barely making it by for food.....should it in any way make you deserve a high wage? or at least a higher wage then what you really deserve?

Ps. I dont' believe in hand outs.....which is somethign you seem to believe in.

[ullyeus]

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.

The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

buwahwhawh

yet I am not allowed to put you on a dumb list on my sig...bizarre.

[Jagaer]

I suppose I am more moderate on this issue than most, as the comments so far have been strongly polarized.

I do not see an issue with a union, or with them striking.
What I do take issue with, is government intervention when none should be required.
- If it is a legal strike the company can either let them strike or bargain.
- If it is an illegal strike the company should be allowed to tell them to get back to work or fire them. This has yet to occur because the government (provincial, typically) steps in and talks with the union reps.

[vrus]

unions are good in moderation.

[ullyeus]

Hey, take it easy on the guy that put his foot in his mouth. I'm sure he wasn't really thinking when he chose "doctor" for his comparison. That's fix this and put this all back on track. We'll replace "doctor" with TTC employee. So ...

Is one TTC employee worth 5 cashiers?

Your standard cashier level employee at TTC does not make 5 times as much.

And don't trot out the ONE GUY who made $100k cause he worked a tonne of overtime as your example.

[ullyeus]

all this anti-union talk disturbs me, but i guess if you have never had the substantial benefit plan they offer, the garaunteed retirement, and the higher wages that a union offers you, then by default, you would also be against it.

*shrugs*

to be honest, you must either be a business owner, or just stupid.

or already have all those things without the "benefit ie: hassle" of a union.

[BiGGiEx3]

How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

I'll leave it at OMGWTFBBQ.

I'm happy to know that I'm not the only Union-hater here.

I have a few friends in the auto industry and who have lost jobs because of the downward trend in the US automakers, and even they admit the fact that it costs more than 5x to do something in their plant than it does to produce something in a Mexican plant for something of equal or better quality.

When I hear the news about the GM protests, I can't help but cringe. And after I read about the US GM workers I just want to cry.

[ullyeus]

I'll leave it at OMGWTFBBQ.

I'm happy to know that I'm not the only Union-hater here.



I don't hate unions, I just don't find they have a cost to benefit ratio that makes sense in most cases.

[peterpatch]

In most cases I find unions stifle a company, however I don't think they should be banned or anything.

I do not like the Rand formula (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0006672) which basically stipulates that if your workplace becomes unionized you have to pay union dues regardless of whether you are for the union or not. I think it encourages overunionization, violates rights of association and suffocates union memberss ability to protest against their union.

[Happy13178]

I'm of the opinion that big unions are worse than smaller ones, and while I'm not very fond of the TTC or CAW unions, I'm a member of a decent one (I think), the CMG. Apart from the odd bad apple that trots out the union guidelines all the time, it works more in the background and really only comes forward around the time to negotiate the new contracts, and we don't have many issues with them or the company.

[Sgt_Strider]

Only 10 times?

Imagine you had cancer. Would 10 cashiers be able to help you? What about 20?

Imagine you needed to check out groceries. Would 1 doctor be able to help you?

:lol:

[ACC-Major]

I wish I am in an Union.
God, when can i find an unionized job? But if I do, you know what happens. STRIKE to the end.

[Sylvestre]

I disklike unions for 1 sole reason - under typical union rules, performance is rarely (or never) rewarded. Any system where additional hard work and innovation cannot be rewarded means that the best people will not benefit.

[BananaHunter]

Anyone that has ever worked with unions will probably hate them. My dad worked at a plant once as a non union member. The union workers get a million "breaks" and other benefits like sick days. That's ********. They basically get paid more to do less work and get to act like queen *****.

I work with some union people too. They submit data to the finance department. Their documents are riddled with errors. Very unprofessional. When they come to meetings, they ask dumb questions and need others to hold their hands. Seems very unfair to the rest of the workforce that these people can hold onto their jobs without trying to perform well.

So to losing 1/3 of hourly wage, I say "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!"

[TotallyKiller]

Agreed

You guys make too much money n aren't loyal or respect the companies you work for.....

Yeah. Cause god knows that we can always trust our employers to treat us well and with appropriate respect.

[TotallyKiller]

I hope you don't ever get really sick. But you can always get a cashier to treat you - they are a dime a dozen.

Actually, per the above math, they are $240,000 a dozen.

[siriuskao]

We are also rapidly running into a problem in society where "the rich get richer". Let's say we gave everyone a 3% wage increase for the next 10 years to make it even. Someone making $7 an hour would go to $9.50 an hour. Meanwhile, someone making $28 an hour would go to $38 an hour. That's a $2.50 raise vs a $10 raise.


$7/h person should get re-trained and change job (or just find better work). Why work at wal-mart if you can try and apply at Costco or Superstore?


The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. I think wages are completely out of whack with society. Doctors are important, yes, but so are cashiers at grocery stores. How can a cashier make $20,000 a year, and a doctor make $200,000 a year? Where is the parity? Is a doctor worth 10 times as much?

Serious?

[dux]

Good I am hugely agianst unions.

If you were part of an union, would you still be against it?

[divx]

If you were part of an union, would you still be against it?

I would be against going on strike at the least.

[kin0kin]

So every time there's a strike, you're gonna get paid more for sure? lol

[ACC-Major]

I would be against going on strike at the least.

The majority will be in favor of the strike even if you oppose. Why?

Top 3 reasons to be on strike:

1) You can get away from your job duties for a while. Since you have been working and doing the same thing over and over again for so many months, it's good to actually take a break and go picket outside.

2) You get full pay, if not, majority portion of your current pay from the Union.

3) Enjoy the aftermath benefits

[batman321123]

Damn, someone decided to bump a 6 month old thread with one of the most insightful comments I've seen on here: a happy face.

[Bazooka Joe]

The majority will be in favor of the strike even if you oppose. Why?

Top 3 reasons to be on strike:

1) You can get away from your job duties for a while. Since you have been working and doing the same thing over and over again for so many months, it's good to actually take a break and go picket outside.

2) You get full pay, if not, majority portion of your current pay from the Union.

3) Enjoy the aftermath benefits

I'm generally against a lot of the conditions surrounding a unionized environment, but you just let us know that you don't have any first hand knowledge on the subject.

I'm in a workplace where the average person on the workforce was making 70-100k per year. Their strike pay during the most recent strike? $150 a week (tax free), and only if they showed up for picket duties.

[Scott84]

Take a pay cut or lose your job entirely if GM folds?

These types of pay cuts is what will save the automotive industry.

They are already over-paid for what they have to do.

If you calculate the amount of education you need to do these jobs, they should be happy they have been making as much as they have, for as long as they have.

Manufacturing industries are often and always overpaid.

[bruizeman]

Damn, someone decided to bump a 6 month old thread with one of the most insightful comments I've seen on here: a happy face.

A very amusing observation. =)

[Sgt_Strider]

Damn, someone decided to bump a 6 month old thread with one of the most insightful comments I've seen on here: a happy face.

I'll post as I please. I found his comment funny. If you're not happy then don't bother posting. If you want to be a troll then go ahead and I'll report you to the mod.

[thesubmitter]

I happen to be a president of small union (like ~25 employees). Unions are there to fight for their members - not to necessarily get "what is fair". Its kind of like a lawyer - whether your client is guilty or not you fight for the most you can get. Its the job of the employer to negotiate.

Also, unions are not that interested in protracted strikes because it costs lots of money but at the same time the general demands are pay equity with comparables.

I know people in non-unionized environments and IMO they get screwed. A couple of examples -
--> 1 of my friends with a senior tech support at Bell getting a pretty good salary (~22$/hr in Montreal) and he got promoted to asst. manager. He now gets paid for 40hrs/week but he works WAY FRICKIN more and he admits it.
--> Another friend who is an engineer is the same thing he works way more hours than he gets paid for and doesn't get the time back or anything.

If they were unionized that wouldn't happen. If you were one of the 2 of the above and you complained to HR or spoke to your manager you would get little red X next to your name

Say what you will, but getting into a union is not easy but when you're in, it is a nice to know that there is a whole structure out there that is looking out for you and you are not at the mercy of your employer.

[Bazooka Joe]

I happen to be a president of small union (like ~25 employees). Unions are there to fight for their members - not to necessarily get "what is fair". Its kind of like a lawyer - whether your client is guilty or not you fight for the most you can get. Its the job of the employer to negotiate.

...


:lol:

That goes a long way towards why my feelings towards lawyers are very similar to my feelings towards unions.

[Sylvestre]

I happen to be a president of small union (like ~25 employees). Unions are there to fight for their members - not to necessarily get "what is fair". Its kind of like a lawyer - whether your client is guilty or not you fight for the most you can get. Its the job of the employer to negotiate.

Also, unions are not that interested in protracted strikes because it costs lots of money but at the same time the general demands are pay equity with comparables.

I know people in non-unionized environments and IMO they get screwed. A couple of examples -
--> 1 of my friends with a senior tech support at Bell getting a pretty good salary (~22$/hr in Montreal) and he got promoted to asst. manager. He now gets paid for 40hrs/week but he works WAY FRICKIN more and he admits it.
--> Another friend who is an engineer is the same thing he works way more hours than he gets paid for and doesn't get the time back or anything.

If they were unionized that wouldn't happen. If you were one of the 2 of the above and you complained to HR or spoke to your manager you would get little red X next to your name

Say what you will, but getting into a union is not easy but when you're in, it is a nice to know that there is a whole structure out there that is looking out for you and you are not at the mercy of your employer.

Maybe I missed it, but what's your argument for unions? :razz:

[alkaseltzer01]

I happen to be a president of small union (like ~25 employees). Unions are there to fight for their members - not to necessarily get "what is fair".

I would add a little more to that... Some unions are there to fight for some members.

Example, a friend and coworker wanted to job share... split a job, get paid half, etc... Company said yes. It gives what the employees want, they are happy, we are happy. Union says no.

Example, another friend, part time work at part time hourly wages. Company had money, valued the work she was doing. Said, we can't offer you full time, but we will give you full time hourly wages for your part time hours. She was happy, she didn't need the benefits and they were already contributing to her pension. She also didn't want full time hours as she had lots of other interests which full time hours would have ruined that. Union said no.

Unions have there place and that to set the basic grounds for fair employment and treatment. This in collaboration with the company. It seems that unions are only flexible one way, that is if the company is making money, they demand a share of the pie. If the company is suffering, they get to keep their share of the pie.

[batman321123]

If they were unionized that wouldn't happen. If you were one of the 2 of the above and you complained to HR or spoke to your manager you would get little red X next to your name

Say what you will, but getting into a union is not easy but when you're in, it is a nice to know that there is a whole structure out there that is looking out for you and you are not at the mercy of your employer.

If they were in a union, they might not have a job. Unions end up increasing expenses, which allow companies to hire fewer workers.

And I can look out for myself. If you're not a lazy (unionized) employee, you shouldn't have to worry about being at the mercy of your employer. I work in a union, and I think it's made me a cynic. The worst part about it is that I have to be a part of the union in order to work there.

I'll post as I please. I found his comment funny. If you're not happy then don't bother posting. If you want to be a troll then go ahead and I'll report you to the mod.

And I'll post as I please. I found your comment funny. If you're not happy, then don't bother posting. If you want to be a troll then go ahead and I'll report you to the mod.