My First 2 Tickets at Steeles/Kennedy

[gamer123]

Firstly I know there are many threads about tickets, and I am currently going through as many related to my case as possible.

So this morning on my way to work, I was going east on Steeles and stopped at Kennedy when red. There were 3 lanes and I was at the far right being the first car, and after the light there are more than enough room for me to merge back in as Steeles goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes. I proceeded straight when green and a cop that was waiting for left turn on the opposite side made U-turn and pulled me over.


#1 He said that far right lane is for bus only unless making a right, which I didn't. Gave me a ticket for disobey sign, $110.

It was raining and honestly I didn't see the "Bus Excepted" sign, but it is there when I went back to check. People says fight every ticket but do I stand a chance? Any points involved? I guess it's either guilty or thrown as I don't see how it can be reduced.


#2 I showed him a copy of my permit and he said I didn't copy the back portion, which is needed to show the sticker. Another $110, drive motor vehicle, no currently validated permit.

I said I do have the real permit at home with sticker at the back, he said I can bring it to court and see what the court can do for me. For sure I will be fighting this.


Thanks for reading and please share any similar experiences or advices.

[TTony]

there are other threads about ticket you should read them,before you get in the court they offer you deal ,you can get away with no points,assuming the cop is there ,if he is not around just get in .

[Rekognize]

Yeah, you were on the right turn only lane..

Bring the original permit on your court date and you should be ok, might as well fight the other one too while you're at it

Good luck

[afici0nad0]

ya, the far right lane on eastbound steeles, prior to kennedy, is a right-turn only lane. arrows are clearly marked.

i've seen a number of people booked for either deliberately or accidentally using that right-turn only lane to cut through rush hour traffic.

the popo will always hide behind the petro canada sign, just east of kennedy.

take it to court and hope for the best.

[gamer123]

didnt notice any right arrow on the ground, will have to go back and check

if the arrow paint isnt clear or if something is in the way of the sign do I need pictures to prove or will word of mouth be enough?

[gambit_360]

I got hit with #1 just this week ($154 ticket here in QC). I was actually going to make the next right turn but apparently I was in the lane too early. Those bus lanes must be sacred or something. Honestly, these are one of the dumbest tickets - they must be making a fortune on these. It's hard to fight this one because it's either were you in the lane or not (even for a second). Plus, signs and lane markings are usually everywhere.

#2 I'm sure you should be able to get out of paying if you show them the actual permit.

[Alvito]

didnt notice any right arrow on the ground, will have to go back and check

if the arrow paint isnt clear or if something is in the way of the sign do I need pictures to prove or will word of mouth be enough?

You will need both. State it in court. Then whip out the pictures.

[evolution921]

i dun think there's arrow on the ground, but there is definitely a green sign that says "right lane must exit" then i believe another sign that say bus exempted.

You should have better luck fighting the 2nd ticket, that will more than likely get thrown out once you show them proper document.

[Rx-87]

I know someone who got booked on the EXACT same first charge.. go fight it you may be able to pull it off.

Worth the try.


But I believe my friend lost on the first charge, just to let you know.

[Vickel]

yea, the right lane is for right turns only,
alot of people either dont notice the sign or just dont care,
as mentioned above the cops are usually in the petro canada waiting for people.

You mentioned you were heading to work so i assume that you have driven past this interesction many times, you have to have seen the sign once

Fight it for sure,
if you lose, take it as a $110 lesson to be aware of and obey signs

[molala]

like other posters said..the right lane has a sign that says 'right lane must exit'...that sign didn't exist before but it was there a while ago.....try to fight it...no harm.

2nd..u could propbably fight it...

[VorteC]

I got the EXACT SAME 2 offenses as you last year... I didn't see the sign because I merged onto the right lane after the sign, was going to turn into the gas station. The officer just walked onto road and signalled me to go into the gas station. I got a ticket for disobeying sign, and I forgot to put that permit sticker thing onto the registration, but he was nice enough to put it on for me and just warned me to make sure to do it next time.

It was a tall skinny-ish white cop. His partner was an older Polish lady. :(

[Azxster]

didnt notice any right arrow on the ground, will have to go back and check

if the arrow paint isnt clear or if something is in the way of the sign do I need pictures to prove or will word of mouth be enough?

Reflective signs are in place, the lanes are marked.

If you ran a stop sign, would you still use the same argument?

Don't bother pleading not guilty, just do guilty w/ explanation (it was raining).

[at1212b]

Since it continues as a 2 lane street, then it is quite obvious that it is a right turn lane and it is dangerous to try to beat the car to the left of you (u might one day get a car accelerating fast just to keep you out), or trying to squeeze in by letting the first car pass but cutting in front of the 2nd one.

Sure, honest mistakes happen, but as soon as you saw the end of lane, you must have realized that some kind of rule was being broken. Well, hopefully all goes well, and just more aware of it in the future.

[VorteC]

Since it continues as a 2 lane street, then it is quite obvious that it is a right turn lane and it is dangerous to try to beat the car to the left of you (u might one day get a car accelerating fast just to keep you out), or trying to squeeze in by letting the first car pass but cutting in front of the 2nd one.

Sure, honest mistakes happen, but as soon as you saw the end of lane, you must have realized that some kind of rule was being broken. Well, hopefully all goes well, and just more aware of it in the future.

The only reason not many people notice its right-turn-only-lane is because the lane CONTINUES... it doesn't end past that intersectino like you described.

[d_jedi]

Aside: I hate the fcuking a$$holes who intentionally go into the right turn lane only to merge (illegally) back in order to cut in front of traffic..

[gamer123]

The only reason not many people notice its right-turn-only-lane is because the lane CONTINUES... it doesn't end past that intersectino like you described.

Exactly, it continues for quite a bit too. I went back to check during afternoon with bright sunlight. The right arrows on ground faded so in the rain it's not a surprise I missed them. There was a green sign saying "right lane must exit" at about 4 poles distance from the light, another black sign with right arrow saying "bus excepted" at about 1 pole distance from light.

I was actually on the far left lane when the light was yellow. However I was running late for work, and there were a few cars in front of me on the left and centre lanes. Seeing how the right lane was open, knowing that the right lane continues after the intersection for quite a bit, having no cars/buses behind me, I cut from left to centre to the right. Yes I did this intentionally so I could accelerate faster instead of staying behind a bunch of cars. However, the 2 signs were behind me when I did this and I didn't pay attention to them when I was on the left as I had no intention to cut to the far right initially.

[squall458]

Too bad for #1 as its your fault. For #2, I had the same ticket and if you bring it with you, they should knock that off. Good luck!

[bobbings]

My buddy got the exact same ticket at the exact same location...

[Rx-87]

From the friend that I knew years back who got the ticket, this intersection is usually frequently patrolled by cops looking for people who do the illegal merge from the "right-turn only" lane.

Basically its one of those hot spot sectors that cops use to make their quota or something like that.

Just like the section on McNicoll between Midland and Kennedy. Man how many times have I been driving only to see someone get booked going over the 50km/h zone by more than 15km/h and being booked.

[gamer123]

When I went back to check out the area, there were at least 10 cars doing the samething that I did, except, there wasn't a cop around. How lucky was I this morning.

[molala]

Exactly, it continues for quite a bit too. I went back to check during afternoon with bright sunlight. The right arrows on ground faded so in the rain it's not a surprise I missed them. There was a green sign saying "right lane must exit" at about 4 poles distance from the light, another black sign with right arrow saying "bus excepted" at about 1 pole distance from light.

I was actually on the far left lane when the light was yellow. However I was running late for work, and there were a few cars in front of me on the left and centre lanes. Seeing how the right lane was open, knowing that the right lane continues after the intersection for quite a bit, having no cars/buses behind me, I cut from left to centre to the right. Yes I did this intentionally so I could accelerate faster instead of staying behind a bunch of cars. However, the 2 signs were behind me when I did this and I didn't pay attention to them when I was on the left as I had no intention to cut to the far right initially.

make sure u don't tell tem this at court...no matter which lane you were driving on and changed lane at whereever....you must read the sign...if i were u..i would of tell them because of the rain so u missed the sign..

[molala]

Since it continues as a 2 lane street, then it is quite obvious that it is a right turn lane and it is dangerous to try to beat the car to the left of you (u might one day get a car accelerating fast just to keep you out), or trying to squeeze in by letting the first car pass but cutting in front of the 2nd one.

Sure, honest mistakes happen, but as soon as you saw the end of lane, you must have realized that some kind of rule was being broken. Well, hopefully all goes well, and just more aware of it in the future.

tha lane continues to the Splendid China plaza..a lot of ppl make that mistake because the right lane must exit sign wasn't there until a year or so ago..

[Ogata]

tha lane continues to the Splendid China plaza..a lot of ppl make that mistake because the right lane must exit sign wasn't there until a year or so ago..

I think they need to put the reserved lane markings for buses and signs there since obviously people don't read (no offense for those of you who got tickets) "RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT" or its not clear enough.

[Tomy]

i got the same ownership ticket before... not hard to fight that one..

good luck jacky.

[cywhiz]

Hey, I did EXACTLY the same thing as you last summer...

I stopped at the right-most lane but didn't turn right at Kennedy. It was a mistake and I was trying to merge back to Steeles but a police officer was waiting for me behind the old CT gas station. Took it to court and received the "Notice of Trial" letter one year later. :razz: Stayed there for 1hr, didn't even have to say a word (other than "my name is...") because the police doesn't have ANY evidence. Maybe I was just lucky, but I think it is impossible for the police to "spot" me from Redlea Ave. because it is like one block away from Kennedy/Steeles! However, in your situation, it might be a little different because the police might have actually saw you.

Some things you can tell them:
- Signs are misleading and far apart (ie: right arrow sign should be placed on top of the lights, not right at the intersection where the street signs are)
- Blame on the bad weather
- I need to go to Petro Canada for gas since my car is running out of gas
- I can't merge back to Steeles because of traffic and red light
- Arrow lanes aren't clearly marked (again blame on the rain)
- The right-most lane extends through the Steeles/Kennedy intersection
- Since I am the first car, I can merge back safely after intersection
- I forgot my directions but don't want to U-turn
- I put my signals on already but no one let me in and the lights turned red

Although these reasons/"excuses" might be lame, I think as long as you tell them your intention is SAFE and UNINTENTIONAL, they might let you go. But then again I am not a lawyer so YMMV. :)

IMO, fight every single ticket you have (unless they are like $15 tickets). If you show up for court, they will most likely reduce the fine or just throw it away! I doubt they will increase the fine.

BTW, I think you will get 2 demerit points AND you'll have to pay $110 if you don't fight this. I've looked this up before when I got the ticket:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_940339_e.htm

[Dots]

Firstly I know there are many threads about tickets, and I am currently going through as many related to my case as possible.

So this morning on my way to work, I was going east on Steeles and stopped at Kennedy when red. There were 3 lanes and I was at the far right being the first car, and after the light there are more than enough room for me to merge back in as Steeles goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes. I proceeded straight when green and a cop that was waiting for left turn on the opposite side made U-turn and pulled me over.


#1 He said that far right lane is for bus only unless making a right, which I didn't. Gave me a ticket for disobey sign, $110.

It was raining and honestly I didn't see the "Bus Excepted" sign, but it is there when I went back to check. People says fight every ticket but do I stand a chance? Any points involved? I guess it's either guilty or thrown as I don't see how it can be reduced.


#2 I showed him a copy of my permit and he said I didn't copy the back portion, which is needed to show the sticker. Another $110, drive motor vehicle, no currently validated permit.

I said I do have the real permit at home with sticker at the back, he said I can bring it to court and see what the court can do for me. For sure I will be fighting this.


Thanks for reading and please share any similar experiences or advices.

Well you deserve the first ticket because you said you were on the way to work that means you know that right line is "only" for "right turn" ...don't give us a bs that its a raining day and oh there are more than enough room, follow the f**king rule.....stop doing stupid short cuts and you will not get any ticket.
The second ticket tells you follow the f**king rule again!!

[iluvmikeharris]

Aside: I hate the fcuking a$$holes who intentionally go into the right turn lane only to merge (illegally) back in order to cut in front of traffic..

Agree 100%.

But I would still fight any ticket, guilty or not. It's all about the money (fine + insurance impact etc.).

[gamer123]

I received the Notice of Trial in mail today for both tickets, I guess my next step is to request a disclosure.

However, I realized that on one of them, the plate is wrong. Instead of "C", they wrote "L". I looked back at the yellow ticket I got that day, and indeed the officer wrote the "C" very much like a "L". This is actually on the disobey sign ticket, do I have a chance to get this thrown out? :D

[Windows95]

My suggestion would be to have a first attendance meeting with the Crown and try to work out a deal. Be polite, dress nice, and explain you didn’t see the sign due to the rain. Hopefully you could plead guilty to the ownership charge and have them drop the disobey sign charge. While the fines are the same for both, the disobey sign charge will carry 3 demerit points while the ownership charge has none. Hopefully your insurance rates wouldn’t be affected by a non-moving violation.

If they won’t offer you a deal and you go to court, I’m not sure your defence of not seeing the sign will fly. You would have to testify to that on the stand, and then the Crown can cross examine you. A good Crown will start asking you about where you’re heading and if you’re familiar with the route. If he can show the Justice of the Peace that you travel that road on a regular basis to work, it would be hard to say you're not aware of it.

As for the incorrect plate letter on your ticket, I’m not sure if that’s a fatal error in Toronto. Fatal errors can vary from region to region and could just be sloppy printing. You’d probably have to check with a ticket defence firm in Toronto to find out for sure. At the very least mention it to the Crown at your first attendance meeting, as it may help them want to plead it out.

[Narci]

Yup, you deserved ticket #1. You travel that stretch of road daily to work and you know that lane is for right turn or busses only

I hate people who jump in that right lane and it's a red and is not turning, there's 10 other people behind the the guy waiting to turn. I usually honk my ass off until the guy moves. I use to turn down Kennedy and Steeles alot as my house is on Kennedy.

[pseudo]

However I was running late for work, and there were a few cars in front of me on the left and centre lanes. Seeing how the right lane was open, knowing that the right lane continues after the intersection for quite a bit, having no cars/buses behind me, I cut from left to centre to the right. Yes I did this intentionally so I could accelerate faster instead of staying behind a bunch of cars.


exactly and thats why you used this lane to get ahead.. i see a lot of people doing this and its annoying. GET IN LINE!

[gamer123]

well just got back from court. for #1 i planned to ask for disclosure and adjournment, because i asked for it back in dec and feb yet i still fail to receive it in a timely manner. for #2 i just brought my ownership.

luckily...

"all charges are dropped due to lack of evidence (cop)" :cheesygri

[demha88]

"all charges are dropped due to lack of evidence (cop)" :cheesygri

:d

[Amuthini]

you should have told himyou wanted to go into the Petro Canada, as the lane continues sothat you can make a right into it.

[Tomy]

well just got back from court. for #1 i planned to ask for disclosure and adjournment, because i asked for it back in dec and feb yet i still fail to receive it in a timely manner. for #2 i just brought my ownership.

luckily...

"all charges are dropped due to lack of evidence (cop)" :cheesygri

lucky u jacky!

was the cop even there?

[ShadowVlican]

cops are hiding at the petro canada station there all the time... waiting for the unsuspecting motorist to do wut the OP did in #1...

i take the bus there all the time.... i shud know

BEWARE!!

[CSR]

grats'

[sucka]

lucky u jacky!

was the cop even there?


must have not been. I don't see how a cop can have 'lack of evidence'..... they'll make it up if they don't have enough, com'on.

[Geologic]

I travel home through that intersection everyday and see enough cars that try to pass everyone through that right lane. If I'm in the lane to the left, I never let the car merge in. I'm glad they have cops parked at the entrance to the petro station to pull these people over.

[gamer123]

yea lack of evidence, thats referring to cop wasnt there. but when i was leaving the building, i saw a few cops coming in. lol he could have been one of them. meh, case dismissed.

[originalnutta]

Wow, thats a pretty dick move.

im glad you got ticketed.

[RSX-S]

First, I would have to say that the only way to prevent getting late to work is to leave your home earlier. Unless you have a long commute on the highways, you will be lucky to save 5 minutes no matter how hard you tried. If you stayed behind the cars on the left lane, you would have spent 10 extra seconds on your commute.

Since you are being honest here and admitted your fault. I'll give you my advice. For the first ticket. I would use this excuse. You saw the signs and made an attempt to merge to the center lane with turn signal on. However, other cars refused to provide spacing. You would have had a accident if you changed lane. This shows you are concerned about public's safety and you did pay attention and saw the sign.

[j62lee]

That "Right Lane Must Exit" sign has been there for over 20 years, even before they extended the lane east of Kennedy to where it ends now. It was there back in the Cullen Garden days, and the right most lane on Steeles heading east has always been a right turn lane.

It's actually quite dangerous to go straight through the intersection in that right lane and then try to merge back into traffic. I've nearly been hit a few times by people who were too impatient to wait out the traffic and passed in that right lane.

[GunnerX]

I really really hate that place. The sign has definitely been there for years and years. And most people use it to go straight. The light is quite long too so most of the time I need to make a right turn and can't because some idiot is there wanting to go straight. And when I go straight, I almost always get cut off by someone going straight and merging back without signaling. I have never seen anyone get ticketed for it so I'm very happy to hear that they are cracking down.

[darkdrgn2k]

Ignorance is no excuse to the law,

So you cant use that as a defence.

But you can proably cut a deal with the prosecuter ahead before the trial......

If you dont feel comfortable with that, talk to a paralegal to do it for u

[darkdrgn2k]

Oh yeh forgot..... Most copy are PAID to be in court....


So dont put your hope in that.. It happens.. but dont COUNT on it as your defense.

[superdeals]

there are other threads about ticket you should read them,before you get in the court they offer you deal ,you can get away with no points,assuming the cop is there ,if he is not around just get in .

good advice! :cheesygri

[Canada_7]

Aside: I hate the fcuking a$$holes who intentionally go into the right turn lane only to merge (illegally) back in order to cut in front of traffic..

Same. Can't stand it when people do the same thing.

OP...it sounds like you were doing the same thing...
tha lane continues to the Splendid China plaza..a lot of ppl make that mistake because the right lane must exit sign wasn't there until a year or so ago..

About the "Right lane must exit sign", I think it's been there for a while now. Quite a while I think, for quite a few years.