AVOID Parkway Honda - Horrible Shopping Experience

[express.items]

Background: I'm in the market for a new (first) car and I went my friend to visit Parkway Honda on Wed May 14. I was very disappointed with the service I received, I have just sent this email off to the General Manager and the Sales Manager of the dealership.
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Dear Mr. Mark and Mr. Palalas,

I walked in to take a look at some cars on Wednesday May 14, 2008 around 2:30pm. The receptionist was very friendly and directed me and my friend to the floor and pointed out where the models of our interest were. She mentioned that if I needed anything, to ask her. After looking at the Civics I asked her if I could speak to a salesperson, and she promptly found and introduced me to Aim Mujib.

At first he seemed very friendly and talked about the vehicle. He then asked us to go to his office where he would show us some comparisons to competitive vehicles. He had mentioned that the Honda is the safest vehicle and that it is a great buy and he was pushing a sale.

Even after I explained to him that this is my first vehicle and that I was comparing (and have test driven) the Toyota Corolla S, Nissan Sentra, Mitsubishi Lancer, Pontiac Wave, Ford Focus, Hyundai Elantra, Volkswagen City Jetta, etc. He mentioned that he understood that I am shopping around and said that it is a good idea. However, after learning that it would be a purchase decision made by my parents, he still kept pushing the Civic and started pricing it out for a lease, mentioning low monthly payment (of $150) and was asking how much I wanted to pay monthly (which I mentioned $300-400). I was expecting to pay the higher amount given that I wanted to own the car (either finance or cash); he was pricing me for a lease (without mentioning that it was a lease), regardless.

I was under the assumption that he was just trying to help me figure out the costs of getting a Civic so I went along with the numbers. After he finished pricing, he mentioned that I should come in with my parents and that he would "treat me well". I thanked him and requested a test drive. However, he told me that I should come in with my parents and then do a test drive so that he can "treat us well in terms of pricing."

He refused to give me a test drive on the spot (without my parents) on the grounds that I hold a G2 license rather than a fully completed G license. As such, he deemed that it would be safer to have my parents test drive the vehicle and mentioned problems with insurance (regarding a G2 license). I asked him if Honda's insurance covers G2 licensees and he said it did, but still recommended that I do not test drive the vehicle on my own.

I was very shocked to hear this, and I felt that I was being discriminated against. As I mentioned I am a new buyer so I'm looking at the whole market, and I've test driven (without an appointment) every make/model that I have listed. They also were very open to the fact that I was unsure which vehicle to settle on, however, it seemed that Mr. Mujib assumed that I already wanted the Civic and was ready to purchase it. I came to this conclusion because he kept pushing a lower price, and low monthly payments, and mentioned that I should bring my parents in, drive the car, and figure out a good price. This is NOT what I was looking for, I was looking for more information on the vehicle and I wanted to see how it handles on the road to make a better informed decision. Mr. Mujib did not provide me with this, and quite frankly, half-way through his long pricing process which I was not too concerned with at the moment, I gave up hope with dealing with him and am no longer considering any Honda vehicles for purchase.

I am very disappointed in the type of service I received. I feel that I should have been given the opportunity to test drive the vehicle so I could base my decision on how it drives, and am very upset that I was discriminated. I was instructed by my parents to shop around on my own time (as they are busy) and to give them a list of my top 3 choices. This is why I wanted to test drive without them, however, after this experience, I'm just going to walk away from Honda completely.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, and I regret that I can never be a Honda customer.

Sincerely,

[VivienM]

He wanted your PARENTS to test drive the car?!?!?

Excuse me?!?!?

Why not have your parents try out your clothing, too?

That's just nuts.

[Roonis]

nice letter but seriously consider sending it to Honda Canada head office too. I doubt the owners of the Honda dealership will care too much because the salesman was probably just doing what he was taught. To pressure you (and your parents) to buy a car on the spot.

[express.items]

He wanted your PARENTS to test drive the car?!?!?

Excuse me?!?!?

Why not have your parents try out your clothing, too?

That's just nuts.

Yup, even though I clearly told him that I would be driving it.

nice letter but seriously consider sending it to Honda Canada head office too. I doubt the owners of the Honda dealership will care too much because the salesman was probably just doing what he was taught. To pressure you (and your parents) to buy a car on the spot.

Ahh.. never thought about that. On a somewhat similar note, their (Parkway) online contact form is broken, but I managed to find some emails. Time to fire this off to Honda Canada.

EDIT: Any idea what Honda Canada's email address is? I can't seem to find one on www.honda.ca I'll be printing out a copy of the email with a brief letter explaining what happened (given that the email has more detail) and snail mailing it to them otherwise.

[gilboman]

He wanted your PARENTS to test drive the car?!?!?

Excuse me?!?!?

Why not have your parents try out your clothing, too?

That's just nuts.

to be fair, his parents are the one paying for it:lol:

[kay188]

What if you had no parents? :D
You live on your own and make your own living, etc...

What can he say then?

[express.items]

to be fair, his parents are the one paying for it:lol:
True, but I should test drive it since I want the car. Perhaps they could test drive it if I decide that the Civic is something I want.

What if you had no parents? :D
You live on your own and make your own living, etc...

What can he say then?

Did you NOT read the part of where my parents are paying?

[kay188]

Did you NOT read the part of where my parents are paying?

It's just a question. Just curious what if he assumed your parents were paying, and you dont have any. =\

[VivienM]

to be fair, his parents are the one paying for it:lol:

And if his parents are paying for his clothing (which, after all, is far more common than parents paying for new cars), should his parents be the ones trying the clothing on???

The person who must be test driving is the person who will be DRIVING the car. Period. If the parents want to test drive too, great, but that's not as important.

[express.items]

It's just a question. Just curious what if he assumed your parents were paying, and you dont have any. =\

Then why would I mention they're paying for it?

And if his parents are paying for his clothing (which, after all, is far more common than parents paying for new cars), should his parents be the ones trying the clothing on???

The person who must be test driving is the person who will be DRIVING the car. Period. If the parents want to test drive too, great, but that's not as important.

+1

[AGR-1]

You were "qualified" as someone that was on a mission to test drive various cars of possible interest to you by that particular sales person. He said to you that when you are ready or closer to making a purchase decision to return and he would gladly lets you drive and give you the best price he could.

G2 license, first car, parents are making the final decision, you were in the showroom hunting and gathering information something that you can easily do online.

G2, first car, with your parents, narrowed down to 2-3 different cars, ready to make a decision within a few days. You are ready to make a purchase decision.

You were mistreated since you were not allowed to test drive a car? While being invited to return with the decision maker to test drive a car.

[gilboman]

And if his parents are paying for his clothing (which, after all, is far more common than parents paying for new cars), should his parents be the ones trying the clothing on???

The person who must be test driving is the person who will be DRIVING the car. Period. If the parents want to test drive too, great, but that's not as important.

the main difference is the parents will most likely be at the dealer to actually proceed with the transaction whereas the parents paying for clothes won't be.

the point is, parents buying the car, dealer wants parents to be at the dealership. its totally understandable. and no, the person who must be test driving doesn't nescessarily should be teh person driving, cause they may not have ulitmate say. the one with the money makes the decision:o

[express.items]

You were "qualified" as someone that was on a mission to test drive various cars of possible interest to you by that particular sales person. He said to you that when you are ready or closer to making a purchase decision to return and he would gladly lets you drive and give you the best price he could.

G2 license, first car, parents are making the final decision, you were in the showroom hunting and gathering information something that you can easily do online.

G2, first car, with your parents, narrowed down to 2-3 different cars, ready to make a decision within a few days. You are ready to make a purchase decision.

You were mistreated since you were not allowed to test drive a car? While being invited to return with the decision maker to test drive a car.
Yes, I was mistreated since I was not allowed to test drive a car. If/when I returned with my parents, THEY would test drive it (according to him), then we'll agree on a number (as if we already decided to get said car). Why would I pick the Civic if I have NO idea how it drives.

On top of all this, I told him I won't be getting a car for 1-2 months (as I have to wait for my G... my parents want me to have G first) yet he's pushing that I bring them in "tomorrow" (which would've been Thursday) and drive and sign.

the main difference is the parents will most likely be at the dealer to actually proceed with the transaction whereas the parents paying for clothes won't be.

the point is, parents buying the car, dealer wants parents to be at the dealership. its totally understandable. and no, the person who must be test driving doesn't nescessarily should be teh person driving, cause they may not have ulitmate say. the one with the money makes the decision:o

Fair enough, they make the decision, however, what's the point if the actual driver doesn't like the drive, it's uncomfortable, too cramped, hard to control, etc.

[15-20_God]

Fair enough, they make the decision, however, what's the point if the actual driver doesn't like the drive, it's uncomfortable, too cramped, hard to control, etc.

the point is the driver may love the car and the way it handles but the payers may love the yaris because its cheaper. i'm guessing the final decision rests with the person holding the purse.

[Ryukishen]

the point is the driver may love the car and the way it handles but the payers may love the yaris because its cheaper. i'm guessing the final decision rests with the person holding the purse.

That WOULD be true if his parents were getting a car, paying for it then giving it to the OP. However, I think the OP mentioned that his parents told him to decide on a car himself and that they'd pay for it.

[thephenom]

Meh, perhaps you looked like a "joyrider" to the salesman, so it's not out of line for him not to try so hard. You might have told him otherwise, but doesn't mean you convinced him of otherwise.

Life isn't fair, get used to it. :D

[express.items]

Meh, perhaps you looked like a "joyrider" to the salesman, so it's not out of line for him not to try so hard. You might have told him otherwise, but doesn't mean you convinced him of otherwise.

Life isn't fair, get used to it. :D

I suppose, but it seemed like he thought he made the sale already :lol:

[v33k]

From the OP's POV

- I am a potential buyer, regardless who pays, you need to show me why the car you are selling is superior than the competitor. I expect the sales personel will serve me professionally, treat me with repect and fulfill all my resonable requests, e.g. a test drive. Even though I may not buy this particular vehicle, but this is what car shopping is all about. A big investment to certain folks.


From the Sales Person's POV

- You do not have the power to make the decision and finalize the deal here today, bring your boss or someone who can sign between the dotted line, then we can talk. Otherwise, you are wasting my time. I bring you out to test drive and I may lose a potential buyer who can finalize the deal right here, right now.




So, there is a debate

[mjl_toronto]

From the OP's POV

- I am a potential buyer, regardless who pays, you need to show me why the car you are selling is superior than the competitor. I expect the sales personel will serve me professionally, treat me with repect and fulfill all my resonable requests, e.g. a test drive. Even though I may not buy this particular vehicle, but this is what car shopping is all about. A big investment to certain folks.


From the Sales Person's POV

- You do not have the power to make the decision and finalize the deal here today, bring your boss or someone who can sign between the dotted line, then we can talk. Otherwise, you are wasting my time. I bring you out to test drive and I may lose a potential buyer who can finalize the deal right here, right now.




So, there is a debate

+1

Didn't seem like the sales guy gave you much respect.

However, I don't blame him for how he treated you as he's weeding you out just like all the other young people with G2 licenses who walk into a Honda dealership claiming their parents will buy them a car but they want to test drive it first. His goal is to make a sale and if he feels he won't, he's likely going to do whatever it takes to make you leave, quickly, just in case a customer walks in ready to buy at that moment. I don't think Honda is having a problem selling Civics so he has no pressure to make you want to come back.

[rogerrabbit168]

OP, did you get a response back from the two managers yet? I'm curious to see what they have to say about it

[express.items]

agreed with v33k there is a debate. It's just that all the other dealerships seemed nicer.

+1

Didn't seem like the sales guy gave you much respect.

However, I don't blame him for how he treated you as he's weeding you out just like all the other young people with G2 licenses who walk into a Honda dealership claiming their parents will buy them a car but they want to test drive it first. His goal is to make a sale and if he feels he won't, he's likely going to do whatever it takes to make you leave, quickly, just in case a customer walks in ready to buy at that moment. I don't think Honda is having a problem selling Civics so he has no pressure to make you want to come back.
Agreed, but he did spend quite some time explaining pricing, so :confused:

OP, did you get a response back from the two managers yet? I'm curious to see what they have to say about it

Nope, nothing back. They probably won't reply, I figure they would've read it by now.

[VivienM]

the main difference is the parents will most likely be at the dealer to actually proceed with the transaction whereas the parents paying for clothes won't be.

the point is, parents buying the car, dealer wants parents to be at the dealership. its totally understandable. and no, the person who must be test driving doesn't nescessarily should be teh person driving, cause they may not have ulitmate say. the one with the money makes the decision:o

Hold on two seconds here.

Cars are something where different people like different things. So, let's say you've got two cars (let's "stick with Civic/Corolla", shall we?) both costing $19K. You seem to be suggesting that it's perfectly okay for the PARENTS to test drive and say "okay, we like how the Civic drives better" without the actual driver having a say?!?

The parents giving guidelines on budget, sure.
The parents test driving as well as the OP, if they have time and more experience with cars, sure. It takes more of the salesperson's time, but it makes sense.

But ONLY the parents test driving? That strikes me as total idiocy. Plain and simple.

[VivienM]

agreed with v33k there is a debate. It's just that all the other dealerships seemed nicer.

The other thing is, what time of day did you go?

If you're a "less serious"-seeming buyer, it may be worth shopping at a time when the dealerships are less busy, just so the sales people don't feel like they're missing out on more "serious" business.

[AGR-1]

The majority of people perform their comparisons and due diligence online, once its narrowed down to 2-3 different models they will hit the "showrooms" to finalise their choice and make a purchase decision.

Once in a showroom the "comsumer" is or should be in "buying mode" not in "hunting gathering mode".

There is no need to visit 7-8 different dealers to gather information, its done online. Test driving 7-8 different vehicles to make a decision in 30 to 60 days is not productive...test driving 2-3 different vehicles to make a decision within a few days is more productive.

Suggesting a lease to a young person is the better solution to acquire a car, with a built in "exit strategy" which is very advantageous for young people.

Test drives are a judgement call on the part of the sales person while abiding by the test drive guidelines of that specific dealer.

[VivienM]

The majority of people perform their comparisons and due diligence online, once its narrowed down to 2-3 different models they will hit the "showrooms" to finalise their choice and make a purchase decision.

Once in a showroom the "comsumer" is or should be in "buying mode" not in "hunting gathering mode".

There is no need to visit 7-8 different dealers to gather information, its done online. Test driving 7-8 different vehicles to make a decision in 30 to 60 days is not productive...test driving 2-3 different vehicles to make a decision within a few days is more productive.

Suggesting a lease to a young person is the better solution to acquire a car, with a built in "exit strategy" which is very advantageous for young people.

Test drives are a judgement call on the part of the sales person while abiding by the test drive guidelines of that specific dealer.

There's LOTS of stuff that you can't gather information about online... basically everything about how the car "feels" (i.e. seats, steering, low end engine response, etc.)

And sure, you can read reviews, but those are generally by biased BMW/Honda fans who want to ram sport sedans down everybody's driveway...

[AGR-1]

The online medium is where most folks go for the better part of their research and to narrow down their choices to 2-3 different models. Then you want to touch, feel, drive, and start buying.

There is a good amount of product parity among vehicles in the same market segment with many components coming from the same suppliers. Most reviews, tests, comparisons of vehicles in the same segments are quite close in their scorings. Reviews from either "buff publications" or other reliable independent sources, not the reviews from brand specific forums or blogs.

Often its a question of personal preference between brand A, B, or C since they are all quite similar and close.

[VivienM]

The online medium is where most folks go for the better part of their research and to narrow down their choices to 2-3 different models.

If you're pressed for time, sure. If you're not, then for all you know, there could be a car you end up really liking that would not have been on your shortlist.

Also, some manufacturers engage in more... flexible... pricing than others. Sometimes you won't realize until you hit the stealership that... wait a second... this car with MSRP $5K higher than the competition actually turns out costing less.

There is a good amount of product parity among vehicles in the same market segment with many components coming from the same suppliers. Most reviews, tests, comparisons of vehicles in the same segments are quite close in their scorings. Reviews from either "buff publications" or other reliable independent sources, not the reviews from brand specific forums or blogs.

There's no such thing as a "reliable independent source". All they do is push Hondas and BMWs.

And "product parity" ignores all the subjective factors.

Often its a question of personal preference between brand A, B, or C since they are all quite similar and close.

Okay, then explain to me this.

I'm a GM fanboy; I think everybody on this forum will acknowledge that.

I'm looking at leasing a new midsized car. A few weeks ago, went out and test drove a Nissan Altima, Saturn Aura, and Ford Fusion. In THEORY, the Saturn should be the obvious favourite: it packs a lot more features for roughly the same money (the dealer quoted me a price that's within $2/month of an Altima 2.5SL, which has a 4 banger, no traction/stability control, etc.), has a much more powerful engine, and as I said above, I'm a GM fanboy, so I'd probably take that brand over others.

Yet the car, when actually on the road, simply feels wrong. It rides too... stiff/harsh. Steering is too heavy. Seats feel too narrow. Etc.

How does this fit into your view of cars as something that can be shopped for on paper, and where brand loyalty is often the tiebreaker?

Here you have a car that wins on paper, wins on brand loyalty, and yet has been 200% crossed off my list.

[alex_d10]

very interesting, let us know how it turns out. I have history with that dealership also, but nothing negative

[AGR-1]

You narrowed it down to 3, you have an allegiance to a specific manufacturer, however the car from that manufacturer does not meet your criterias, and the feel does not resonate with you.

Its same down to 3, and make a final choice, and purchase decision.

If you are such a GM fan you would immediately know that a Saturn Aura is not competitive with a Nissan, probably closer to a Fusion which looks pretty good, and is doing great as daily rental unit.

How come you did not look at a Malibu? that is the GM car to really consider if you are a GM fan...would you wait for a G8?

In a very competitive automotive atmosphere, all manufacturers engage in competitive pricing, the difference might be the monthly incentives that vary from month to month depending on sales results.

Not subjective...is your opinion...Bimmer and Hondas...your opinion again.

As for brand loyalty....is it the brand or the financial package that is the motivator for the final decision, for lower priced vehicles brand loyalty is at approximately 35%.

Manufacturers are well aware of the dilution in brand loyalty, its one of the reasons they have monthly incentives to steal customers from a competing brand.

[VivienM]

You narrowed it down to 3, you have an allegiance to a specific manufacturer, however the car from that manufacturer does not meet your criterias, and the feel does not resonate with you.

I narrowed it down to three... for day #1 of shopping.

More than three would have been checked out on day #1, except the Saturn sales dude was extremely clingy and I probably spent 3X more time there than at the Nissan or Ford dealers.

Day #2 of shopping will probably include the Dodge Charger, Altima again, Honda Accord (grr... I have bitter memories of a 03 Accord, but the 08 will still get checked out), maybe Malibu, etc. Hell, if I have time, I might even check out a Corolla just to see what modern econoboxes are like...

If you are such a GM fan you would immediately know that a Saturn Aura is not competitive with a Nissan, probably closer to a Fusion which looks pretty good, and is doing great as daily rental unit.

On paper, the Aura is better than the Nissan for the same price. By a BIG margin.

In the flesh, it's the other way around. I'd happily give up 2 cylinders, 1.1L of displacement, and a whopping 77HP just to not have to drive the Aura.

How come you did not look at a Malibu? that is the GM car to really consider if you are a GM fan...would you wait for a G8?

Simple reason: not enough time in the day. There was time to check out one more dealer, and it was either the Ford or the Malibu. Coming out of the Saturn dealer, it seemed a more productive use of time to check out a completely different car instead of the Aura's twin sister. I've had three Epsilon experiences, none of which have thrilled me:
- rental car base G6 4 cyl. Annoying because I had booked a 'full-sized' (hoping for a W body), but the car felt like basically a bigger econobox and seemed perfectly reasonable... for a quasi-econobox price
- Aura XR driving around the Toronto auto show. Hard to get a good impression. Car did feel... cramped.
- longer test drive of the Aura XR

Re: the Malibu, it might have a softer suspension tune than the Aura, which would solve one big problem. But it's as narrow, it costs more (for a 6 cyl. LTZ... ), it STILL has that horrendous Epsilonic interior (memo to GM: go shove your three-spoke steering wheel...) and more troublingly, I keep getting "oh it's an old man's car"-type feedback about it.

What I really want, ideally, would be the Altima coupe. But the trunk on that thing is so tiny that I know I'll regret it sooner rather than later... hence how the Altima sedan is currently the front runner.

If the Altima sedan was available in that gorgeous blue they offer on the coupe, and the 2.5L model had traction/stability control, then I'd probably already have bought it.

As for the G8... a) who knows when it will be available, b) I suspect it would be above my budget, c) I'd really really really really really really want the V8 (mmmmm, pushrods with enough displacement to do the job), d) I'd probably prefer FWD for now (not an aggressive driver, but I'm seriously lacking in winter driving experience). What are the latest rumours on its availability in Canada?

[thephenom]

Hold on two seconds here.

Cars are something where different people like different things. So, let's say you've got two cars (let's "stick with Civic/Corolla", shall we?) both costing $19K. You seem to be suggesting that it's perfectly okay for the PARENTS to test drive and say "okay, we like how the Civic drives better" without the actual driver having a say?!?

The parents giving guidelines on budget, sure.
The parents test driving as well as the OP, if they have time and more experience with cars, sure. It takes more of the salesperson's time, but it makes sense.

But ONLY the parents test driving? That strikes me as total idiocy. Plain and simple.
I don't know about you when you were 16. When I was 16, I didn't care nor should I be complaining about any car my parents bought me, whether it's used or new. It's a gift, it's not a "have-to" IMO. Beggars can't be choosers. Either way, driving to a sh*tbox to school still makes you cool in the eyes of those who takes the bus. :D

But I guess with this generation today, the children are the kings of the family, and they can whine and bi*ch about getting a car not to their liking.

Prime Example:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=90HhZ-pyC2Y

:twisted:

[express.items]

The other thing is, what time of day did you go?

If you're a "less serious"-seeming buyer, it may be worth shopping at a time when the dealerships are less busy, just so the sales people don't feel like they're missing out on more "serious" business.

around 2:30, left around 3

[express.items]

I don't know about you when you were 16. When I was 16, I didn't care nor should I be complaining about any car my parents bought me, whether it's used or new. It's a gift, it's not a "have-to" IMO. Beggars can't be choosers. Either way, driving to a sh*tbox to school still makes you cool in the eyes of those who takes the bus. :D

But I guess with this generation today, the children are the kings of the family, and they can whine and bi*ch about getting a car not to their liking.

Prime Example:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=90HhZ-pyC2Y

:twisted:

Yes... but I was suppose to pick a car.

[thephenom]

Yes... but I was suppose to pick a car.

Yeah I know, I was just making an argument for the sake of it. :D

Nothing wrong with picking the car you want, just saying at the end of the day, your parents can overrule your decision, or at least that's the way it should be. ;)