Please share your advice on purchasing used BMW/BENZ

[dubseller]

Hey all, I am seriously thinking of buying a used 2002/2003 BMW 745i or MB S430. Around 25-30k. I live in halifax but want to purchase the car from ontario (more choice + cheaper). But after talking to a few friends, they are telling me not to bother because the newer cars have so many electronics and needs special tools that I can only get the car looked at by the stealership... So I thought I would check out the local BMW and MB dealers... how disappointed I was with their customer service!!! As soon as I mentioned to the BMW sales rep the I have a budget, his whole demeanor changed! I told him no more than 30k on a 745i and he had a list that showed the cheapest 7-series at 46k. I asked him if I could test drive that one and he actually said "well... that's big money over there, so let's try to figure something else out..." WTF?! And no matter what I asked him, he kept telling me that buying used could be a disaster unless I bought directly from them! He pretty much told me that if I brought a car from somewhere else, they would not be interested in dealing with me! I got a eerily similar vibe from the MB sales rep. He was telling me that if I bought a car from somewhere else for 10-15k less, my service bills will be that of a 100k car so not to be surprised, which makes sense but I got a very hostile tone from him and he definitely did not sound interested in dealing with me anymore.

Why is BMW/MB not interested in used cars services? How can I take an out-of-province vehicle to get it serviced at the stealer and expect honest treatment when this is how their responses have been so far?

I guess what I want to know from some BMW/MB owners is:

Is it worth buying a used '02/'03 745i or s430 this late in the game without warranty???
Will there be massive mechanical/service jobs that only the dealerships can perform?
And are there any good bumper-to-bumper extended warranty providers that I can go through to give me some peace of mind after I purchase one of these two cars?

ANY ADVICE IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

7-series and s-class are like Ferraris. If you can afford to buy 2, you can afford to drive 1. Why do you think they depreciate so much?

[mr_raider]

Sales has nothing to do with service. I highly doubt the service department would be unwilling to work on your car if you brought it in. That IS their job! They may charge you an arm and a leg, but that's part of the joy of owning used German cars.

[dubseller]

7-series and s-class are like Ferraris. If you can afford to buy 2, you can afford to drive 1. Why do you think they depreciate so much?

crap :(

[dubseller]

Sales has nothing to do with service. I highly doubt the service department would be unwilling to work on your car if you brought it in. That IS their job! They may charge you an arm and a leg, but that's part of the joy of owning used German cars.

double crap :(

[3weddings]

A good friend of ours is a Service Advisor for BMW in Toronto....I have been wanting a used 745 for myself and he insists that it is not the car for us!! There are so many issues with the first gen, that BMW bought them back from the owners, fixed them and resold them with extended warranties(to 160k bumper to bumper). There are many issues with them!!!

As far as the MB is concerned, if it has flex service, it will tell you when to service it and if you research the many forums (mbworld.org) they will teach you how to diagnose the codes. The most important thing is to buy your fleece oil filters from the dealer, use a good synthetic oil (not Mobil 1), you can go 20k between changes (we actually do our own on our e320cdi).

Hunt around, surely there are some good honest MB mechanics in your area. We found one in Toronto who is honest, reliable and saves us money...without going near the 'stealership'.

[dubseller]

A good friend of ours is a Service Advisor for BMW in Toronto....I have been wanting a used 745 for myself and he insists that it is not the car for us!! There are so many issues with the first gen, that BMW bought them back from the owners, fixed them and resold them with extended warranties(to 160k bumper to bumper). There are many issues with them!!!

As far as the MB is concerned, if it has flex service, it will tell you when to service it and if you research the many forums (mbworld.org) they will teach you how to diagnose the codes. The most important thing is to buy your fleece oil filters from the dealer, use a good synthetic oil (not Mobil 1), you can go 20k between changes (we actually do our own on our e320cdi).

Hunt around, surely there are some good honest MB mechanics in your area. We found one in Toronto who is honest, reliable and saves us money...without going near the 'stealership'.


Thanks for the tip, and the s430 was really my first choice... I am good with troubleshooting car issues through forums, but since these are relatively rare cars in this side of the country, I am a little weary... Heard of any good extended warranty companies???

[dubseller]

7-series and s-class are like Ferraris. If you can afford to buy 2, you can afford to drive 1. Why do you think they depreciate so much?

LOL the german cliches never cease to make me laugh!!!:cheesygri

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Yeah, but when you do buy one, you should go straight for the 750iL or S500. I mean, V8s are what GM and Toyota put into their crapboxes. No one will argue with you when you have TWELVE mo'fuggin cylinders under the hood. Who cares if it even runs.

[dubseller]

Yeah, but when you do buy one, you should go straight for the 750iL or S500. I mean, V8s are what GM and Toyota put into their crapboxes. No one will argue with you when you have TWELVE mo'fuggin cylinders under the hood. Who cares if it even runs.

is the s500 a lot harder on gas or just a few more dollars a tank?

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Hah, I just checked and the S500 in that generation is actually a V8, so it can't be too bad I guess. I meant you should buy a S550 or S600.

[dubseller]

thanks for all the replies, I think I'm gonna get the s500, cause it does have all the options the s430 has and more... except for the thirstier gas tanks... and I'll try to find a good mechanic or a good MB service rep who will sell me a canada wide warranty (was gonna say warrant...:lol: ) But if you have any more advice please post! :)

[VivienM]

Hah, I just checked and the S500 in that generation is actually a V8, so it can't be too bad I guess. I meant you should buy a S550 or S600.

S550 is a V8, too.

S600/S65 are the V12s...

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

...you'd think I would know that, too, since I use to own a V8 Mercedes. Long day today. :(

[blue mountain raider]

with gas prices skyrocketing, it amazes me why people still want to buy V8 cars as a daily driver.

[AGR-1]

Coverage One is a reliable supplier of extended warranties for an M-B or BMW their prices are more reasonable when there is still remaining factory warranty on the car.

They have sevral warranty options at different price levels.

Its preferable to buy a car with remaining factory warranty at a higher price than cars without warranty.

M-B's have a 48/80 warranty and a 60/120 major component warranty as new cars from the factory up to model year 2005. The reason that these sales guy's don't pay attention is when you mention that you have a 30K budget, this amount does not put you in a used S or 7 series with remaining factory warranty. Which would be a model year 2004 or 2005.

If you want to buy an older model year without remaining factory warranty, get the history of the car, be certain that the services have been performed on a regular basis (theyhave a maintenence book which is stamped by the dealer), and ask yourself how much of an appetite you have for maintaining a car.

Ideally you would want a 2004/2005 model year, ideally an M-B more than a BMW, and the local M-B dealer in Halifax (O'Reagan) can even lease you one of these cars which is the way to go.

The level of technology in luxury cars is higher and more complex than non luxury car, the level of performance and enjoyment is also much higher, fuel economy is quite reasonable.

If you want higher performance you should be looking at the AMG versions like an S55 ideally 2003 and up with the Kompressor motor. If you want a 12 cyl it should also be a 2003 and up with the Bi Turbo motor S600.

[VivienM]

with gas prices skyrocketing, it amazes me why people still want to buy V8 cars as a daily driver.

Because, for most people, the cost of gas is still a relatively small share of the total cost of vehicle ownership?

Honestly, the maintenance/repair bills on the cars the OP has in mind will probably be as much as his gas bills, if not more...

[Pete_Coach]

I owned a BMW and just got a Mercedes. I have to agree with the OP on the attitude of the sales people at both dealerships. To them, you need not be there if you can't afford the package. I must say though, the BMW Certified Series vehicles are as tested and inspected and verified as you will ever get from a used car. There would be no question about it's quality.
One of the reasons I went to Mercedes though was I was just fed up with the BMW attitude. BMW Canada does a great job of treating it's customers well but the local dealerships, sales and service, are egotistical and condescending. Nothing irks me more than a no talent service writer arguing with me over mechanical or technical issues.
I have had no service requirements from Mercedes yet (the warranty is very good, even wear items are covered for 3 years) but it will be interesting to see if and when I go in with minor complaints.
With the reduction in prices and the low interest rates both Mercedes and BMW have, a new vehicle may be in your price range as well?

[veryhuman]

Why is BMW/MB not interested in used cars services?
The sales are pushing for their certified series (which is a great program, but with a price); they’ll say anything to deter you from buying used elsewhere.


How can I take an out-of-province vehicle to get it serviced at the stealer and expect honest treatment when this is how their responses have been so far?
If they ask where you purchased the car, tell them you recently moved from Toronto.
But in general, the sales and service departments has different mandates. They shouldn’t treat you that way after you’ve gone in a few times.


Is it worth buying a used '02/'03 745i or s430 this late in the game without warranty???
I recommend doing a lot of research on the vehicles online, have knowledge of their common problems, and look for those problems when you inspect a potential used vehicle. Along with a Carproof report and the usual checks for possible collusion history.

Should always have an independent or even the dealership to inspect the car (even provide some sort of guarantee for major components)
Here’s an example http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=13


Will there be massive mechanical/service jobs that only the dealerships can perform?
Search for independent shops that specialize in BMW/MB or European vehicles, they will be more then capable to do all repair work.

And are there any good bumper-to-bumper extended warranty providers that I can go through to give me some peace of mind after I purchase one of these two cars?
Yes, here’s one example http://www.warrantydirect.ca/ a sample quote for 4 year/100k km (expire on 2012) extended warranty on my 2005 Z4 is $1,366.

[Pete_Coach]

T

If they ask where you purchased the car, tell them you recently moved from Toronto.
But in general, the sales and service departments has different mandates. They shouldn’t treat you that way after you’ve gone in a few times.


Search for independent shops that specialize in BMW/MB or European vehicles, they will be more then capable to do all repair work.


Yes, here’s one example http://www.warrantydirect.ca/ a sample quote for 4 year/100k km (expire on 2012) extended warranty on my 2005 Z4 is $1,366.
The key for your BMW will tell the history of the car, telling them you are from somewhere else makes no matter. They slip it into a device reader and download it's statistics. The know the car and where it has been and how it's been serviced.

As for after market warranty's, these are hit and miss. You need to have a service manager or shop or mechanic that is willing to spend time on the phone going to bat for you. They need to argue for you and then make the case for warranty and then get authorization to do the work. You will also need to know if the aftermarket warranty company pays the mechanic or you. If it is the mechanic, then OK for you but, if it is that you pay for the work then make a claim, well, anything can happen and it does. My Son is a service manager and he will go to the wall for some clients but others, well, they are on their own (you can imagine who they may be..the ones who complain about every thing, who claim to be ripped off every time, who curse the lousy car etc). The wait time to get approval or find out they will not pay can be many days and you are without a car in the meantime. Or, you find out they pay for the part (perhaps not the OEM part but an aftermarket or wore, a used part) but not the labour or they pay a labour rate so low the shop won't do the work unless you pay the difference. I firmly believe that, if you get extended warranty, the only one of any value is the factory/OEM one.

[AGR-1]

Coverage One is probably the one that offers the most comprehensive levels of warranty...Go Here (https://www.coverageone.ca/mic/uwc/jsp/HomePage.jsp)

Comprehensive Extended Warranties that cover most of the electronic components, active suspension struts are quite expensive. The basic warranties that cover powertrain are reasonably priced, most of the time the issues are not with the powertrain.

Captive finance companies of M-B and BMW auction (dealer only auctions) lease return cars on a regular basis these are 3-4 model year old vehicles usually with balance of factory warranty. These vehicles are bought by franchised and independent dealers.

The majority of Certified Pre Owned that are promoted by the franchised dealers are lease returns that were purchased at auctions.

On vehicles with a high technology content the technology can be OK the day of the inspection and completely dead a few days later...with no symptoms in between. The generic testers that plug into the OBDII outlet will not give enough information to correctly diagnose and repair an M-B or a BMW.

The ideal vehicle is one with remaining factory warranty, and a very comprehensive extended warranty that covers all the technology, powertrain coverage is not sufficient. If peace of mind is a high priority.

[ES_Revenge]

S550 is a V8, too.

S600/S65 are the V12s...

What's funny is the 750 is a V8 as well, no? The 760 is the V12...

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Yeah, I was thinking of the E38, which goes to 750 for the V12. Looks like the E65/66 goes from 745(V8) to 760(V12).

When I go to buy one I'll remember to open up the hood and count the cylinders.

[mr_raider]

If the luxo-yacht-living-room-on-wheels type of vehicle is really what you like, have looked at getting an LS430? Not the same Teutonic cachet, but at least customer service is miles ahead of BMW/MB, and repairs should be cheaper, even if used. A friend of mine had a used LS400 that he drove many years, until his son totalled it.

[kenchau]

with gas prices skyrocketing, it amazes me why people still want to buy V8 cars as a daily driver.

they're not...they want to buy v12's. completely different from v8's. :cheesygri

If the luxo-yacht-living-room-on-wheels type of vehicle is really what you like, have looked at getting an LS430? Not the same Teutonic cachet, but at least customer service is miles ahead of BMW/MB, and repairs should be cheaper, even if used. A friend of mine had a used LS400 that he drove many years, until his son totalled it.

mmm...LS is a beauty indeed. how about audi's? they any good? i thought they had a model called the A8? ;)

[dubseller]

hey guys... thanks to everyone helping me out with this... I have done non-stop reading for about 3 months. I have read all the problems inherent in the s-class/7series so many times that I think I'm going have every single problem I've read about... in either car I get!

I have damn near memorized the suspension DIY diagnostics for the s-class and memorized all the tell tale signs of i-drive malfunctioning in the 7 series... which seem to be the most common problems. I am definitely checking out the after market extended warranties and it seems they are only available so long as the original manufacturers warranties are still in effect.

I have also endlessly read about the ls430 and LOVE everything about the car... except how it looks! :( Something about the headlights and motherly body style deters me!

I know I should go with a warranty that explicitly describes coverage for a pneumatic suspension system for the s-class. I even spoke to a local European auto mechanic and seems confident in working with the s-class and told me the 7-series is costlier to fix and more problematic...

hmmm... I LOVE the AMG bodykit on the s-classes... and only hear good things about the 03+ models... This is the direction I am heading in. I am also looking for a serious warranty.

Please keep posting anything that might help!

[dubseller]

they're not...they want to buy v12's. completely different from v8's. :cheesygri



mmm...LS is a beauty indeed. how about audi's? they any good? i thought they had a model called the A8? ;)

and just to add to that... everyone I know that owns a lexus, SWEARS by them! And only fantastic customer service stories to report! But unless I go '06 or higher, I am not really interested...

[AGR-1]

If you go with an S Class you should get a 2003 and up which is the facelifted version with the clear headlamp covers.

You will pay more for one with the Sport Package be it an S430 or S500. Later model years than 2003 you will find mostly 4 Matic versions.

[JackyGor]

A wise man told me once "If you can't afford it new, you probably can't afford it used."

[veryhuman]

A wise man told me once "If you can't afford it new, you probably can't afford it used."

That statement is not wise...:confused:

[dubseller]

dayum... spoke to canada warranty direct and they quoted me
$5,500 (+taxes) for a 3year/60000km on 02 s430 and s500... ouch!

[3weddings]

About the warranty...we have a 2005 (with 141k on it now) and considered the warranty. We do our own oil changes, and have found an incredibly honest MB mechanic in Toronto (I know that's an oxymoron). Our only expenditure was around Christmas, and alternator (which you can't buy used) and a couple of relays for $2600, that is all we have put into the car, with the exception of modifications we have added.

[AGR-1]

As mentioned earlier, comprehensive extended warranty are less money for a car with a balance of factory warranty. When you ask for a price on a car without factory warranty its very pricey.

If you find a 2004 it should have remaining major component warranty from the 5/120....

These cars are/ were over 100K new, S430 = 100K , S500 = 125K and S600 = 165K everything associated to the cars is in relation to the price, when you bring one for service anywhere the bigger the number on the the trunk the stronger the temptation to charge more money. It goes with the territory of owning one of these cars.

[HP_John]

I hate to say this, but if your budget is $30 K for a 7-Series or S-Class, repairs are going to be too expensive IMO. Especially M-B, which doesn't have a single car with at least avg reliability according to Consumer Reports. Another thing is to be weary of many of the 3rd party extended warranties, many of them have many exempt items (eg it's not the same as the OEM warranty, less coverage) & require a deductible for each warranty claim.

[dubseller]

alright guys... after reading books and talking to everyone on their opinions and recommendations, I have decided to pick up a 2004 530i. Trouble is with the extended warranty. I have a quote from warranty direct for about $3,400 CAD for 2 yrs/40k (kms), and is their best coverage. Seems decent considering there is no manufacturer's warranty left. Now where do u guys think is another company to get a warranty quote from for BMWs???

[mr_raider]

3400$ for a two year warranty? I'd just put the money in a savings account and take my chances.

[Pete_Coach]

alright guys... after reading books and talking to everyone on their opinions and recommendations, I have decided to pick up a 2004 530i. Trouble is with the extended warranty. I have a quote from warranty direct for about $3,400 CAD for 2 yrs/40k (kms), and is their best coverage. Seems decent considering there is no manufacturer's warranty left. Now where do u guys think is another company to get a warranty quote from for BMWs???

Honestly Dubseller, $3400 for two years worth of warranty and it won't even [pay for all repairs, just a select few and only if the service adviser or manager goes to bat for you and argues your case really well....
You have been agonizing over this for a long time now. You can get a lot of work done for $3400. Bite the bullet and buy the car and screw the warranty and pay as you go. I am willing to bet that you won't even pay any money in two years for the parts supposedly covered by the warranty. The 2004 is a good reliable car and most BMW owners take care of their vehicles anyway.

[dubseller]

Honestly Dubseller, $3400 for two years worth of warranty and it won't even [pay for all repairs, just a select few and only if the service adviser or manager goes to bat for you and argues your case really well....
You have been agonizing over this for a long time now. You can get a lot of work done for $3400. Bite the bullet and buy the car and screw the warranty and pay as you go. I am willing to bet that you won't even pay any money in two years for the parts supposedly covered by the warranty. The 2004 is a good reliable car and most BMW owners take care of their vehicles anyway.

Thanks Pete, you have great sound advice. I am test driving cars now (ad was for the past couple of days) and you're right, I have been agonizing for a while. But I just found someone selling his 2003 S430, with extended warranty with "Nationwide" till 2011. It seems to be in great shape, and one owner. Everything looks great and the price is around 25k. That seems like a steal. What do you think? And do you have any personal experiences or opinions on Nationwide extended warranty?? Here's their link:

http://www.nationwideautowarranty.com/

[Pete_Coach]

Thanks Pete, you have great sound advice. I am test driving cars now (ad was for the past couple of days) and you're right, I have been agonizing for a while. But I just found someone selling his 2003 S430, with extended warranty with "Nationwide" till 2011. It seems to be in great shape, and one owner. Everything looks great and the price is around 25k. That seems like a steal. What do you think? And do you have any personal experiences or opinions on Nationwide extended warranty?? Here's their link:

http://www.nationwideautowarranty.com/

Does sound like a good price to me. If it has all the bells and whistles as well as a transferable warranty, looks like you will be getting what you want. Have the car checked, make sure the mileage does not run out on the warranty and away you go. Nationwide is just another warranty company.
My humble opinion is that the best warranty is the OEM warranty. I have mentioned this before but here again, my Son is a service manager and he deals with OEM warranty';s as well as others. He always has some sort of issues with the others. Even if it is just having to wait a few days to get the OK to do the repairs. He also has to do a lot of fighting for the customer to get warranty work approved. If the customer is a dick, well, there ain't much fight.
Go on, get the car and enjoy driving a Mercedes.