where to complain? CT abusing customer

[ultimate_rugal]

Went to canadiantire (CT) for the payment of my Credit card. i had one $100 bill along with the others and cashier refused to take it.

I asked for any policy - she couldn't show me
I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill

only then abusing began, she took my name, address etc.. in return i have her name, employee#, her supervisor's name.....

where to contact?? any idea???

[billymadison]

I would contact Canadian Tire upper management and complain. Tell them you didn't appreciate being treated the way you were, and you demand to know what will be done about it.

This is a big problem in the last few years with Retailers refusing to take large notes. They usually fear that they are Counterfiet

In reality, the Government should step in and prohibit retailers (especially LARGE retailers like Canadian Tire) from refusing to take legal tender. If there is a fear of counterfiet bills, then come up with a better anti-counterfiet scheme. Australia has been quite successful at this.

I can understand if the retailer didn't have the proper change to give you from a $100.00 bill, but I doubt it, since it is such a huge store.

[UrbanPoet]

oh gawd... whats wrong with these retailers.
Its soooo easy to tell a counterfiet from a legit note.
IT takes litterally 3 seconds to look @ the hologram, and check the texture on the #...

I never understood why they dont take them. I think the majority of counterfiets are $20's anyways.... just b/c people like to sneak them in between real ones to pass it off.

[UncleSteve]

I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill


No, it's not.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams/counterfaq_e.htm#retailer

What can I do if a retailer refuses to accept my $100 note? Can retailers legally refuse notes?

* The method of payment (e.g. cash, debit or credit card) used in a transaction is a private agreement between the buyer and the seller. Each has the right to accept or refuse a bank note when accepting payment or receiving change.

We encourage retailers to use security features; this is more customer-friendly than refusing notes for counterfeiting concerns and it’s also a more effective protection against counterfeiting losses.

There are several reasons why a retailer may choose to refuse notes (e.g. security for 24-hour operations; maintaining float).

Having said that, Canadian Tire does have a website, which probably does contain contact information.

[7jaii]

CT locations around the GTA are full of FAIL. RFDers report many incidents of poor judgement & service policy. This is partly due to the fact they're franchisees but many have no reason to treat their customers like criminals.

I would post their location, then report this to a regional manager (C.C. your account directly to corporate office) and require a full response from them. CT service in Toronto is poor and that won't change if we stay silent.

[champlinD]

Went to canadiantire (CT) for the payment of my Credit card. i had one $100 bill along with the others and cashier refused to take it.

I asked for any policy - she couldn't show me
I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill

only then abusing began, she took my name, address etc.. in return i have her name, employee#, her supervisor's name.....

where to contact?? any idea???
Go to same store and contact the Manager. Send E-mail check web site for details. I had problems but they were solved politely.

Make sure you never shout back and be polite. Once you start shouting all bets are off. Trust me they will solve the problem.
Most stores in Toronto have policy not to accept larger bills than 20.

[RenegadeX]

Went to canadiantire (CT) for the payment of my Credit card. i had one $100 bill along with the others and cashier refused to take it.

I asked for any policy - she couldn't show me
I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill

only then abusing began, she took my name, address etc.. in return i have her name, employee#, her supervisor's name.....

where to contact?? any idea???So to recap:
- you were wrong, you made up her some story and told her you were right
- she told you were were wrong, and that that was their policy, end of story
- you pushed the matter
- "abusing began"*

* unclear who started the "abuse" or what "abuse" entails; my educated guess is that it was you who started it and that despite her best efforts, you created a scene. If not, please specify.

EDIT: OOPS I JUST NOTICED THAT YOU WERE ONLY DEALING WITH THE *CASHIER*, NOT THE C/S MANAGER! AS SOON AS THE CASHIER SAID SHE COULDN'T PRODUCE A WRITTEN POLICY, YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE C/S DESK AND DEALT WITH THE C/S MANAGER.

I can tell you without a doubt that a CT cashier and/or C/S manager:
- personally wishes the store would take $100 bills, but the directive not to take them comes from the owner/general manager
- would rather NOT get in a fight with a customer and have their name taken down so they can be complained about
- has better things to do that abuse a customer
- is human and has a breaking point. I do not mean that this means they will jump over the counter and assault you, or start shouting profanities, but I mean there comes a point where all that they can say has been said and that if you are going to create a scene, then it's probably time for you to leave, and if/when you refuse to do so, being polite MIGHT slip down the order of priorities.

A CT cashier is the lowest person in the food-chain. It's not the cashier's place to be taking down and giving names - they get minimal training, get paid pittance, and certainly aren't going to have the same level of tact, patience, and knowledge that the C/S manager would have in dealing with such a situation. The cashier may not even know about a written copy of the policy somewhere at the C/S desk -- though she certainly should if there is one (at my store, we had it posted behind the desk and all our cashiers knew it), so when you demanded to see a written policy, at that point she should have deferred you to C/S so she could get back to her job of checking out customers. That was her mistake.

If you really were "abused" by the cashier and haven't done so already, contact the store's C/S manager, either in person or via phone.

If you're going to complain about the $100 bill situation, write to the franchise-owner(dealer) and ask him kindly to reconsider, or at the very least have signs posted (confirm with the C/S desk first so you have your facts straight). You can get the owner's name and confirm the mailing address by calling C/S, if it is not printed on a receipt. In your letter, explain what transpired and make the point that not only is it upsetting that you cannot use legal tender, but that this unfortunate incident would not have happened had $100-bills been accepted. Leave a phone# where you can be contacted should he/she wish to discuss it further.

[cwb27]

Went to canadiantire (CT) for the payment of my Credit card. i had one $100 bill along with the others and cashier refused to take it.

I asked for any policy - she couldn't show me
I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill

only then abusing began, she took my name, address etc.. in return i have her name, employee#, her supervisor's name.....

where to contact?? any idea???

I don't get why the cashier took your name down? Perhaps you instigated the "abuse".

[molala]

actually they changed the policy of 'legal tender' few years ago because of the amount of counterfeit...

retailers have the right to refuse any amount of bill even $5...

i was at a mcdonald's in scarborough 2 wks ago...they posted a notice that the cannot accept any bill larger than $50 because of recent increase of $100 counterfeit across GTA...

what's the big deal over it? most places doesn't accept $100 anymore...just take it to a bank and break it..then u're al good!

[disordered]

They aren't obligated to accept legal tender for purchases, but this was to pay for a credit card debt. I believe that for a debt, they have to accept legal tender for payment, or they lose the right to sue for non-payment.

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender):
Legal tender or forced tender is payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt (debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment).
In some jurisdictions, a currency holding the status of legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (for example, where the obligation to pay arises substantially contemporaneously with the offer of payment). Consequently vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate. Shopkeepers can reject large banknotes — this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for payment of the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.

[sillysimms]

They aren't obligated to accept legal tender for purchases, but this was to pay for a credit card debt. I believe that for a debt, they have to accept legal tender for payment, or they lose the right to sue for non-payment.

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender):
Legal tender or forced tender is payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt (debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment).
In some jurisdictions, a currency holding the status of legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (for example, where the obligation to pay arises substantially contemporaneously with the offer of payment). Consequently vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate. Shopkeepers can reject large banknotes — this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for payment of the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.

It isn't clear what jurisdiction that applies to. The only cite for that is from the British Royal Mint so very likely does not apply in Canada

The part for Canada says:

"Retailers in Canada may refuse bank notes without breaking the law. According to legal guidelines, the method of payment has to be mutually agreed upon by the parties involved with the transactions. For example, convenience stores may refuse $100 bank notes if they feel that would put them at risk of being counterfeit victims"

It's too bad, but because of counterfeit money, and more and more conterfeit money that looks quite realistic, the majority of stores that I go to, both major retailers and smaller ones, no longer accept anything larger than $50 bills. There are exceptions but this is the case for most retailers and to be honest, I don't blame them. Sure, some large retailers may not be in a terrible situation if they lost $100, but why take the risk. They don't have to by law and I wouldn't. When I go to the bank I refuse to get $100 as they are very difficult to use anywhere anymore.

[RenegadeX]

"Law enforcement- Bank Notes- Bank of Canada"
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/law.html
What is "legal tender"?

A "tender" is an offer of payment of a debt. In Canada, legal tender consists of coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint and bank notes issued by the Bank of Canada.

This does not mean that a merchant is obliged to accept bank notes. The method of payment can be whatever is mutually acceptable to both parties — cash, credit card, cheque, etc. Thus, a merchant may refuse to accept bank notes in payment for goods or services, without contravening the law.

[mlc2000]

Who are you trying to impress walking around with brownies (hundreds) ?

Pay your credit cards online or pay with interac in the store.

[disordered]

This does not mean that a merchant is obliged to accept bank notes. The method of payment can be whatever is mutually acceptable to both parties — cash, credit card, cheque, etc. Thus, a merchant may refuse to accept bank notes in payment for goods or services, without contravening the law.

You're confusing the point I'm trying to make. If you walk into a store and want to purchase something, then they can refuse $100 bills if they want.

However, if you walk into a store to settle your credit card debt, they have to accept legal tender. You are not using the $100 bill to pay for goods or services, you already paid for them with your payment method of a credit card. You are now settling a debt.

[sillysimms]

You're confusing the point I'm trying to make. If you walk into a store and want to purchase something, then they can refuse $100 bills if they want.

However, if you walk into a store to settle your credit card debt, they have to accept legal tender. You are not using the $100 bill to pay for goods or services, you already paid for them with your payment method of a credit card. You are now settling a debt.

No, that's not correct. That link you posted doesn't apply to Canada. The citation is from the British Royal Mint, so if you're in Britain it MAY apply. In Canada, a merchant has every right to refuse to accept a bill regardless of whether you are paying for goods and services or settling a debt. Just as a fake $100 (or other bill) could be used to pay for purchases, there is the same possibility of a fake being used to settle a debt and they are not obligated or required to accept it.

[elty]

Went to canadiantire (CT) for the payment of my Credit card. i had one $100 bill along with the others and cashier refused to take it.

I asked for any policy - she couldn't show me
I said it is against the federal law NOT to accept $100 bill

only then abusing began, she took my name, address etc.. in return i have her name, employee#, her supervisor's name.....

where to contact?? any idea???

So basically you make a fake law and abuse the cashier.

[Nikita]

I can't even count how many times I've used U.S. $100 bills in Windsor, and have never had a problem. Most stores have some sort of ultra-violet light thing that can detect if it's real or no, but still, I don't remember ever having one checked. I have however, seen them put it up to the light (regualr light) once or twice, so apparently they're trained in low-tech ways as well to detect counterfeit bills. Maybe it's because I live in a border city so it's very commom to see these here.

Let's face it, $100 bills are the new $20's these days anyway. Stores are only losing sales if they refuse to accept them, or if they don't invest in those machines that can detect fakes or even train staff how to tell without a machine. If that happened to me, I wouldn't patronize the store again. And send them an email letting them know why. Perhaps when they realize how much money they're losing, they'll simply institute security features that can make the determination as to counterfeit bills.

[rock hard]

That link you posted doesn't apply to Canada. The citation is from the British Royal Mint, so if you're in Britain it MAY apply.

Not to mention the link is to Wiki.... REALLY reliable source :rolleyes:

[CSK'sMom]

I can't even count how many times I've used U.S. $100 bills in Windsor, and have never had a problem. Most stores have some sort of ultra-violet light thing that can detect if it's real or no, but still, I don't remember ever having one checked. I have however, seen them put it up to the light (regualr light) once or twice, so apparently they're trained in low-tech ways as well to detect counterfeit bills. Maybe it's because I live in a border city so it's very commom to see these here.

Let's face it, $100 bills are the new $20's these days anyway. Stores are only losing sales if they refuse to accept them, or if they don't invest in those machines that can detect fakes or even train staff how to tell without a machine. If that happened to me, I wouldn't patronize the store again. And send them an email letting them know why. Perhaps when they realize how much money they're losing, they'll simply institute security features that can make the determination as to counterfeit bills.

+1! Hubby gets $100CAN bills often and never has a problem using them at reputable, chain stores. Heck, we have never even had a problem using them in the US. Most places check them but then again those same stores will even check a stack of $20 bills from time to time...

[Hard_Taco]

In my opinion, Canada should copy Australia for what they did with paper bills. Replace paper with plastic, problem solved with the exception the money will melt if they are caught on fire.

[voyager6868]

Can you be a bit more specific about how your were "abused"?

Did the employee call you names, or insult you, or make some racist remark?

If you think that an employee writing down your name is abuse, then this is a bit over-the-top... Or if the "abuse" is because she didn't take your fake $100 bill ;)

[subliminal]

It also depends on which series of $100 bills you have or tried to use.

The Canadian Journey series (present) has, obviously, the most security features, followed by the Birds of Canada (1986). Most retailers will not accept the Scenes of Canada (1969-1979) series as it has no notable security features.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/graphs/photos/general/2001-04/cjs_100f.gif
Canadian Journey

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/graphs/photos/general/1986bg/1286a.gif
Birds of Canada

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/graphs/photos/general/69-79bg/1277a.gif
Scenes of Canada

[Nikita]

way i see it:
if u have any $100 bills in ur pocket, chances are its either unpaid tax dollars or its fake. Yes there is the odd gift from others but u should start depositing that money into the bank(or is there a secret u are keeping?), then take it out as u need it. in this day in age, i would be lucky to spend $60 cash a week, every purchase it on CC, even if its $5.

Dont even say u get payed cash, that alone sounds too fishy.

ATM dont give out $100's for a reason.

stop complaining about something that u know if u owned a store u wouldn't take the 100's either.

+
why even pay CT card with cash and in person. what a F***ing waste of time (and again make it look like ur hiding income or trying to pass along a fake).

u can use online banking for paying CT CC.
I do.

Seriously? LOL Well I must really be hooked up with some good counterfeiters cuz I very often have $100 bills in my wallet, usually American. I must also be very well hooked up with retailers who take them on a regular basis.

Or I'm just a really really good crook, who's got everybody fooled!

[RenegadeX]

..in Windsor, and have never had a problem. Most stores have some sort of ultra-violet light thing that can detect if it's real or no, but still, I don't remember ever having one checked. I have however, seen them put it up to the light (regualr light) once or twice, so apparently they're trained in low-tech ways as well to detect counterfeit bills. Maybe it's because I live in a border city so it's very commom to see these here.Comment#1: If you tell me what web browser you use, I'd be happy to help you install or enable an in-line spell-checker. ;)
Comment#2: I don't know how long you've been in Windsor, but a huge counterfeiting operation was busted near there in 2001 - and while that was admittedly quite a while ago, a lot of stores got taken for a ride. What's the expression?.. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" -- so to hear that for the most part (according to you) they're quite lax about verifying bills in Windsor is surprising. A large part in avoiding counterfeit bills being passed off in a store is to make a habit of checking bills (of any denomination) -- crooks seeing this will generally prefer to attempt their fraud elsewhere.

Approximately 63,000 phony $100's were put into circulation by this Windsor gang. As Southern Ontario is home to quite a few retail business national head-offices, word got out and the 'prevalence' of the fakes across the country kind of got blown out of proportion (as the number of fakes was relatively small in comparison to the number of genuine $100's in circulation at the time). But I guess the point had been made - "if you're not careful, it could happen to you".

And I'm sure you know this Nikita, but perhaps others reading this don't - when a store discovers they have taken counterfeit bills (whether it's a single $10-bill or numerous bills totally in the hundreds or thousands) and phones the police, or has the bank inform them after they've been deposited - the money is confiscated by the RCMP and there is no reimbursement. After all, funny money is worthless.

In the case of grocery stores, where margins typically run around 2%, that means for each counterfeit $100-bill they take in and forfeit, they have to sell another $5,000 worth of goods to make up for it. Do that a few times.. and it's no wonder a lot of stores aren't prepared to take the risk and simply say "NO".

Here's a bit on the Windsor story, though again the actual value was later revised and estimated to be $6.3million:SOME COUNTERFEIT MONEY is easy to spot. A veteran RCMP officer recalls once seeing a particularly lame bill photocopied in black and white, then coloured in with crayons. But the good stuff, well, there's a technologically driven art to it, and plenty of tech-savvy fraud artists willing to try their hand. The infamous $100 Windsor note is a prime example. That counterfeit denomination, churned out by the tens of thousands in southwestern Ontario in 2000 and 2001, rattled bankers, police and retailers across Canada, and set the standard for bogus bills. It was so good that the four crooks who printed it unloaded more than $5.5 million of the not-so-funny money before police raided a rented lakeside home in Belle River, just outside Windsor. The men went to jail but, with some of their work still in circulation, vigilance remains crucial. What's more, technology has only improved since then, and now well-rendered small bills are duping Canadians, threatening to undermine the integrity of the country's currency.

http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/English/BoC/counterfeit.htmComment#3: Bad counterfeits can almost always be detected visually or tactilely with little difficulty if they are actually checked, while professional counterfeiters now acquire the real papers and inks, rendering the UV test essentially meaningless.
"No bill too small to counterfeit, article: March 2003"

"Unfortunately, ultraviolet light is limited because counterfeiters have accessed papers that appear like real currency under ultraviolet light," says Andrew McTaggart, a spokesperson for Adler Technologies, a company that offers anti-counterfeit devices.

"They also have access to phosphorescent inks that react the same way the security inks and currency do under ultraviolet light."

http://www.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/21032003/n3.shtmlThis is not exactly a new development either - I remember helping bust a relatively small counterfeiting ring in the GTA in 1997 whose bills passed the UV test (but failed a close visual inspection, which is precisely why they were targeting nightclubs). But it wasn't until 2000 and that Windsor gang that the bills were really, really good. Again on that, from the first article:Unfortunately, where there's a criminal will, there's a nefarious way. And that is why the high-quality Windsor note was such a watershed It showed a determined level of technical sophistication, says RCMP Cpl. Earle Bailey. The counterfeiters heat-sealed a gold foil patch on the phony $100 bills, embossed the note to simulate the raised ink normally found on genuine bills, used a phosphorescent dye on the embedded planchettes so they'd glow under UV light as normally expected, and coated the cotton-blend paper so UV light wouldn't cause the rest of the bill to glow as it does with an inferior bill. "They did a lot of research," says Bailey. "They put new meaning into counterfeiting."

Let's face it, $100 bills are the new $20's these days anyway.Comment#4: That is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS! :(
After the Windsor incident, accepting $100's became taboo so counterfeiters shifted their focus to $20's (and $10's) and thus those denominations became "the new $100's" in terms of counterfeiting prevalence & lucrativeness. $50-bills raise suspicion, but $20's and $10's ... they're so common most cashiers don't even think twice about them. $5's are a problem too, but it's obviously 4x riskier (and slower) than passing off fake $20's. After 2001, the total value of counterfeits passed in Canada went down, however the actual NUMBER of fake bills passed went way up, peaking in 2004 (new bills with improved security measures were introduced in 2005 and thankfully, each year since has seen a decline). However, even so, Canada still has the distinction of having one of the worst counterfeit-to-genuine ratios in the (civilized) world.

And if by chance you actually meant "$100's are the new $20's" in reference to inflation and the increased costs of goods, nope. More and more people are paying for their more purchases on credit cards and Interac (and then there's also cheques). That's not to say nobody uses cash, as that's far from the truth, but nowadays it's quite rare for anybody to plonk down a stack of $50's or $100's for their larger purchases. There's just simply better alternatives available.

Stores are only losing sales if they refuse to accept themAlso NOT true.
#1 - *most* people, although not necessarily happy that their large-denomination cash is not accepted, will have another method of payment available to them at that instant (either smaller denominations, Interac, CC), and WILL use it because they *need* the item, and have invested time and energy going to the store, finding the item, and lining up for it. And though they might threaten and/or swear "I'm not shopping here any more!", 9x out of 10, they WILL be back. I speak from experience, having dealt with this exact situation dozens if not hundreds of times.
#2 - many stores now offer their own gift cards and store-branded credit cards so many people who might once have paid in cash are now using these in lieu. This is especially true if the store-branded credit card has an incentive program in place that will "reward" them for using their card. Why pay with cash when you can get "free" stuff for making purchases on it, not have to pay/start paying for the item until the end of the month, AND at the same time avoid ATM/Interac charges?(ex: load a GC with $100 using Interac = 1x service charge; spend $20 5x on Interac = 5 service charges). End result: even with cash restrictions in place, the store still make the sale, and possibly even make *more* sales. Many customers will not even care any more about cash restrictions...
#3 - BOTH of the cash alternatives in #2 are MONEY MAKERS FOR THE STORE: store-branded CC's because they get a cut of the interest accrued, and GC's because they get the customer's money up front and can earn their own interest on it prior to the card's value being redeemed. So if the store has a loyal customer base out of either necessity or convenience, getting them to lose the cash and go with their store cards is a win-win-win for the store.

Of course if the customer pays with cc or Interac, the store has to pay the card processing company a service fee, but in many cases, with cc interest rates at 18-28%, #2 & 3 make up for it.

The number of customers so petty that they would ***** about such a trivial matter and vow to take their business elsewhere is pretty small - certainly small enough that many store owners are prepared to lose those few peoples' business if need be rather than face the ongoing risk of forfeiture of counterfeit money despite their best efforts to prevent staff from accepting it.

But of course, it's ironic that the OP was trying to pay off his store-branded credit-card balance with the $100 bill. Memo to the OP: the original point of using a CC was to avoid using cash.. :lol:

[tyreman]

This reminds me of the dumass clerk I had a few years ago.
Used a twenty to pay for whatever and she says you can't use it its fake.
Uh okay.
I had just come from the bank machine.
Go back to that bank and they say yeah it could be fake but they will do nada, but I can leave it there,they will send it in
I then go to copper shop and ask for a detective to look at it.
They send a bull out and looks it over and says I will be back in a few minutes.
Comes back and says do you want to leave it here? and we can buy coffees?
I said you mean it not a fake?
he says thats right sir there is nothing wrong with the bill other than it may have been in the laundry at one time.
Enjoy.
I say thanks much and go spend it later in the day.

These stores do now pretty much whatever they want.
their own specific policies independant owner tripe.
The money can be checked quite accurately with scanners if its a legitimate currency.

As for if the cash being used is from a cash payment? who cares.
you sold something used, your parents gave you cash.:cheesygri

you came from a birthday party a hundred reasons none of which is anybodies business:cheesygri
happens a lot with older parents they'll hand off cash in later years.

As for plastic money no cash I don't think so.More BS
More Orwellian government intervention.

[jericho129]

Can you be a bit more specific about how your were "abused"?

Did the employee call you names, or insult you, or make some racist remark?

If you think that an employee writing down your name is abuse, then this is a bit over-the-top... Or if the "abuse" is because she didn't take your fake $100 bill ;)

I would like to know also just what kind of 'abuse' the customer took...

[RenegadeX]

This reminds me of the dumass clerk I had a few years ago.Typically, only a dumbass (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=dumbass) wouldn't know how to spell the word properly. :-0
Used a twenty to pay for whatever and she says you can't use it its fake. Uh okay. I had just come from the bank machine.So? #1) If you were trying to pass off a counterfeit and got caught, of course that's the line you'd give!
#2), it is entirely possible for a bank machines to give you a counterfeit:"Catching Counterfeit Cash"

Withdrawing your currency from a bank's ATM machine does not guarantee that you will receive "clean" notes. While there are processes in place to ensure that the bills in the bank machines are genuine, counterfeit notes do slip through the cracks. Therefore you should check these bills as well.

If you find a counterfeit bill you should go into the bank immediately if it is open or contact the bank if that isn't the case. It is up to the branch to decide whether they will reimburse someone who alleges that they received counterfeit money from a bank machine.
http://www.canadaone.com/ezine/nov06/catching_counterfeit.html
Go back to that bank and they say yeah it could be fake but they will do nada, but I can leave it there,they will send it inSo the cashier wasn't any more of a "dumass" than the bank person, was she? I guess that makes 3 of you..
I then go to copper shop and ask for a detective to look at it. They send a bull out and looks it over and says I will be back in a few minutes.This story better have been when you lived in Ottawa (your location currently says Cambridge) as otherwise the only 'bull' here is your story. If the bank staff, who handle money every day and who knows exactly what to look for and has the basic detection tools available to assist them - weren't able to say for sure whether it was or wasn't counterfeit, then a "detective" at your local RCMP detachment would be no more, and probably actually less familiar with money that's 'been through the wash' than them - and therefore not be in any more position than the bank staff to say for sure whether the bill was legit or not. FYI: suspected counterfeit bills gets sent to the NACB's RCMP Forensic lab in Ottawa to be forensically analyzed, and if they are determined to be legitimate, they are sent back to the bank or local detachment for return to the owner. So your guy couldn't possibly give you the okay just like that, and if he did, then we should add 1 to the 'dumass' count. (What's that 4 now?)
Comes back and says do you want to leave it here? and we can buy coffees? I said you mean it not a fake? he says thats right sir there is nothing wrong with the bill other than it may have been in the laundry at one time. Enjoy.I'll give you a REAL story (and this isn't the nightclub one I referred to earlier) : customer attempted to pay bill with cash, clerk noticed the $20's looked 'odd'. Put them under the UV and the whole thing glowed.. customer said money had been "through the wash" and that he was in a hurry as he had to pick his kid up from school. Checked the planchettes.. inconclusive. Clerk thought "It's probably okay" and was about to put them through then thought better of the situation and decided he didn't want to take responsibility so called me, a manager over to make the decision. I come over, look at the money, do a few checks, and was also thinking "looks like any other that's been through the wash". Then I took out a legit $20 from the register to compare it, and putting them together noticed that they were about 2% SMALLER than a genuine bill. That's right... the ****ing money SHRANK IN THE WASH...... NOT!

Unfortunately for the customer, I still had his car and his car keys, his licence plate#, his name and his address. The police were most appreciative...

These stores do now pretty much whatever they want. their own specific policies independant owner tripe.Yup, doesn't it suck to realize that you're just a poor schmuck and that the whole world's out to make YOUR life difficult? Hey if you don't like it, get your own store and make your own rules.
The money can be checked quite accurately with scanners if its a legitimate currency.I know my previous post was long, but it was long because it contained accurate and relevant information. I did this in the hopes of preventing silly uninformed comments like yours, and so you and people like you wouldn't have to strain your fingers typing needless stuff. But alas... :(

[Ojam]

ok, now point to where CT touched you.

http://www.collectibleteddybearsonline.com/members/1562906/uploaded/HermanOnHat2.JPG

[RenegadeX]

^ of course you didn't live in Ottawa. I wasn't expecting you to. That was the point, the detective at your local police dept isn't any more qualified than the bank staff to say whether it's legit or fake. Only the dudes in Ottawa could do that.

edit: note: tyreman's post which I was replying to has since been deleted by him because it made him look (even more) foolish.

[Bazooka Joe]

So what exactly was the abuse? The OP is a little unclear/confusing. They wouldn't take your $100, so then what happened? AFAIK there's no law that forces someone to take cash as a form of payment. I did skim some of the lengthier posts though so I appologize if this was answered.

Why not just pay online like everyone else, also, how does one get $100 without going into a bank? I've withdrawn large amounts before and only got $50's from the machines... I don't believe I've ever had a $100 bill on me unless I got it from a teller on my way to pay for something in cash.

[Nikita]

well...
1.
u got really bad credit (living life month/month), u likely shop at cash only places to stay under the radar and/or ur hoping holding on to US$ will make u something on the exchange(soon).

2.
u could be rich...but then what r u doing on RFD?
but then again i am here so who knows... LOL

Wow, what huge assumptions from somebody who knows nothing about me except that I often use cash. I never said I don't also use CCs, you asssumed that.

You might keep in mind that it's just as simple as this...not everyone does things the way you do...and wouldn't life be boring if we all did.

[RenegadeX]

Nikita, do you get more money dancing on the US side or back home in Windsor?

Seriously though, while I can't imagine why you'd regularly have US $100 bills in your wallet, it's none of our business and isajoo's assumption was completely whacko. For once I agree with you.

[Nikita]

Comment#1: If you tell me what web browser you use, I'd be happy to help you install or enable an in-line spell-checker. ;)



LOL..is that the best you can do. Thanks for the offer but I have people who I pay to do that for me, when it matters. My spelling is excellent, my typing is not at all a concern of mine (because of the people I pay to do it when it matters, and here it doesn't) on a forum where most people can't spell or use grammar properly anyway.

If you tell me where you learned to argue, I'd be happy to remind you that quantity of words do not equal quality of the post.

Comment#2: I don't know how long you've been in Windsor, but a huge counterfeiting operation was busted near there in 2001 - and while that was admittedly quite a while ago, a lot of stores got taken for a ride. What's the expression?.. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" -- so to hear that for the most part (according to you) they're quite lax about verifying bills in Windsor is surprising. A large part in avoiding counterfeit bills being passed off in a store is to make a habit of checking bills (of any denomination) -- crooks seeing this will generally prefer to attempt their fraud elsewhere.

I was born and raised in Windsor. You needn't have wasted the bandwidth of telling me things I'm very very familiar with, and which in any event have nothing whatsoever to do with me. Perhaps something you've overlooked (since your so surprised that our merchants take $100 bills, U.S. and Canadian) is fact that Windsor is a border city that attracts thousands upon thousands of Americans on a daily basis, U.S. $100 bills are nothing new to this city. Our merchants are quite willing to take them and in the best interest of their business, have taken the security measures required to ensure they get 'real' money.

Approximately 63,000 phony $100's were put into circulation by this Windsor gang. As Southern Ontario is home to quite a few retail business national head-offices, word got out and the 'prevalence' of the fakes across the country kind of got blown out of proportion (as the number of fakes was relatively small in comparison to the number of genuine $100's in circulation at the time). But I guess the point had been made - "if you're not careful, it could happen to you".

And I'm sure you know this Nikita, but perhaps others reading this don't - when a store discovers they have taken counterfeit bills (whether it's a single $10-bill or numerous bills totally in the hundreds or thousands) and phones the police, or has the bank inform them after they've been deposited - the money is confiscated by the RCMP and there is no reimbursement. After all, funny money is worthless.

In the case of grocery stores, where margins typically run around 2%, that means for each counterfeit $100-bill they take in and forfeit, they have to sell another $5,000 worth of goods to make up for it. Do that a few times.. and it's no wonder a lot of stores aren't prepared to take the risk and simply say "NO".

Here's a bit on the Windsor story, though again the actual value was later revised and estimated to be $6.3million:Comment#3: Bad counterfeits can almost always be detected visually or tactilely with little difficulty if they are actually checked, while professional counterfeiters now acquire the real papers and inks, rendering the UV test essentially meaningless.
This is not exactly a new development either - I remember helping bust a relatively small counterfeiting ring in the GTA in 1997 whose bills passed the UV test (but failed a close visual inspection, which is precisely why they were targeting nightclubs). But it wasn't until 2000 and that Windsor gang that the bills were really, really good. Again on that, from the first article:

Comment#4: That is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS! :(
After the Windsor incident, accepting $100's became taboo so counterfeiters shifted their focus to $20's (and $10's) and thus those denominations became "the new $100's" in terms of counterfeiting prevalence & lucrativeness. $50-bills raise suspicion, but $20's and $10's ... they're so common most cashiers don't even think twice about them. $5's are a problem too, but it's obviously 4x riskier (and slower) than passing off fake $20's. After 2001, the total value of counterfeits passed in Canada went down, however the actual NUMBER of fake bills passed went way up, peaking in 2004 (new bills with improved security measures were introduced in 2005 and thankfully, each year since has seen a decline). However, even so, Canada still has the distinction of having one of the worst counterfeit-to-genuine ratios in the (civilized) world.

And if by chance you actually meant "$100's are the new $20's" in reference to inflation and the increased costs of goods, nope. More and more people are paying for their more purchases on credit cards and Interac (and then there's also cheques). That's not to say nobody uses cash, as that's far from the truth, but nowadays it's quite rare for anybody to plonk down a stack of $50's or $100's for their larger purchases. There's just simply better alternatives available.

Also NOT true.
#1 - *most* people, although not necessarily happy that their large-denomination cash is not accepted, will have another method of payment available to them at that instant (either smaller denominations, Interac, CC), and WILL use it because they *need* the item, and have invested time and energy going to the store, finding the item, and lining up for it. And though they might threaten and/or swear "I'm not shopping here any more!", 9x out of 10, they WILL be back. I speak from experience, having dealt with this exact situation dozens if not hundreds of times.
#2 - many stores now offer their own gift cards and store-branded credit cards so many people who might once have paid in cash are now using these in lieu. This is especially true if the store-branded credit card has an incentive program in place that will "reward" them for using their card. Why pay with cash when you can get "free" stuff for making purchases on it, not have to pay/start paying for the item until the end of the month, AND at the same time avoid ATM/Interac charges?(ex: load a GC with $100 using Interac = 1x service charge; spend $20 5x on Interac = 5 service charges). End result: even with cash restrictions in place, the store still make the sale, and possibly even make *more* sales. Many customers will not even care any more about cash restrictions...
#3 - BOTH of the cash alternatives in #2 are MONEY MAKERS FOR THE STORE: store-branded CC's because they get a cut of the interest accrued, and GC's because they get the customer's money up front and can earn their own interest on it prior to the card's value being redeemed. So if the store has a loyal customer base out of either necessity or convenience, getting them to lose the cash and go with their store cards is a win-win-win for the store.

Of course if the customer pays with cc or Interac, the store has to pay the card processing company a service fee, but in many cases, with cc interest rates at 18-28%, #2 & 3 make up for it.

The number of customers so petty that they would ***** about such a trivial matter and vow to take their business elsewhere is pretty small - certainly small enough that many store owners are prepared to lose those few peoples' business if need be rather than face the ongoing risk of forfeiture of counterfeit money despite their best efforts to prevent staff from accepting it.

But of course, it's ironic that the OP was trying to pay off his store-branded credit-card balance with the $100 bill. Memo to the OP: the original point of using a CC was to avoid using cash.. :lol:

As for the rest of your verbosity, it has nothing to do with me, nor my post. I simply stated my experience. And notwithstanding all of the above, Windsor continues to accept $100 bills, U.S. and Canadian from me. By the way my U.S. money comes from a U.S. bank, so the chances of my having counterfeit money is slim to nil as they have already been checked.

[ultimate_rugal]

well, some of my questions were answered already, thanks for the help.

however, for example i prefer to keep two $100 bill instead of ten $20. there wasn't any single problem before until now...

So what exactly was the abuse? The OP is a little unclear/confusing. They wouldn't take your $100, so then what happened? AFAIK there's no law that forces someone to take cash as a form of payment. I did skim some of the lengthier posts though so I appologize if this was answered.

Why not just pay online like everyone else, also, how does one get $100 without going into a bank? I've withdrawn large amounts before and only got $50's from the machines... I don't believe I've ever had a $100 bill on me unless I got it from a teller on my way to pay for something in cash.

[ultimate_rugal]

she took my bill, made sure it's real, scanned it, only then asked for more info.

I would like to know also just what kind of 'abuse' the customer took...

i'm not a law student, but i did work in a customer service environment for a long time, cashier was ill advised for sure.

[Ojam]

i'm not a law student, but i did work in a customer service environment for a long time, cashier was ill advised for sure.

Wow, that abuse must have really traumatized you... :rolleyes:

[InvisibleSoul]

disordered is correct.

Retailers have the right to not accept any form of payment they wish to if you are buying something, BUT they must accept all forms of legal tender if it is for a repayment of a debt, which it is in this case.

[RenegadeX]

Retailers have the right to not accept any form of payment they wish to if you are buying something, BUT they must accept all forms of legal tender if it is for a repayment of a debt, which it is in this case.Where's the 'banging head on desk' smilie? We've already had this debate.. at least twice.. what you are referring to is a documented BRITISH law. If you can actually back it up and provide some solid CANADIAN proof (not from Wikipedia), please do so and we'll all be thankful for it. Until you do so, "that myth has been BUSTED". :mad:

My spelling is excellent, my typing is not at all a concern of mine (because of the people I pay to do it when it matters, and here it doesn't) on a forum where most people can't spell or use grammar properly anyway.Well that's a very selfish and pompous attitude.. not that I thought highly of you as it is, but that drops you even lower.
If you tell me where you learned to argue, I'd be happy to remind you that quantity of words do not equal quality of the post.Case in point: omit the rhetorical condition and redundancy from the first 16 words of the above sentence and the same point could be made without us wondering if whoever taught YOU to argue is ashamed of their result. :-0

Here's what I go by:
- Good quality words > *any* quantity of poor quality words
- A sizable quantity of good words that cover all the bases is > than few good ones that don't
- When someone spews garbage, rather than me simply replying "You're wrong", readers of the thread deserve to know why precisely that is so.
- The more "wrongs" in a post, the more clarifications & corrections will be needed in the reply.

And after all, are we not here to READ, SHARE, and LEARN from the experiences & knowledge of others? On the odd occasion when I write succinctly, I invariably end up having to correct, clarify, and fill-in people like yourself who are confused easily and have a hard time thinking things through on their own. In an effort to avoid this, my posts are generally thorough and supported by links, quotes, and examples, and I have the forethought to address what would likely be inevitable questions before they are asked. Yet amazingly, there are STILL those here (such as yourself) whose reading comprehension is so poor that there are misunderstandings. Yes, my efforts often seem rather futile, but fortunately people like you are few and far between. From time to time, people reply or PM me with thanks for having taken the time to write decent, detailed posts - so if some people appreciate it then it's all worthwhile.

A perfect example of what I was talking about above: (I've broken-down & numbered the 4 thoughts so that I can address them individually) :
[1] You needn't have wasted the bandwidth of telling me things I'm very very familiar with,
[2] and which in any event have nothing whatsoever to do with me.
[3] Perhaps something you've overlooked (since your so surprised that our merchants take $100 bills, U.S. and Canadian)
[4] is fact that Windsor is a border city that attracts thousands upon thousands of Americans on a daily basis, U.S. $100 bills are nothing new to this city. #1a) Ah, so you're not just 'familiar' with it, but "very very" familiar with it. Seeing as the impetus for the thread was $100 bills not being accepted, and you brought the city of Windsor into the conversation in Post#17, for failing to mention or share with readers your now-admitted "knowledge" of the notorious Windsor counterfeiting operation that led to the situation described by the OP, shame on you.
#1b) You can't blame me for not knowing that you knew something when you gave us absolutely no indication that you did in fact know. And, that being the case, so what anyway? #1 is unnecessarily defensive--and rude.
#1c)To quote you about the apparent prevalence of UV machines in Windsor, you *speculated*: "Maybe it's because I live in a border city so it's very commom to see these here". That could well be part of it (though I'm nowhere near the border and we have them in every store).. but maybe it's because (as your profess you were aware of) you're in the one-time home of the most notorious counterfeiting operation in Ontario if not Canada? Ya think? I think, and that's why me bringing up the story (when you didn't) was appropriate.
#1d) I shared the story and corrections to what you'd said because of what you said, but FYI: it was posted FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT. It was FAR from wasted bandwidth.
#1e) Could you possibly be any more hypocritical?! See #4 -- what makes you think *I* know nothing about Windsor?
#2a) YOU brought up Windsor, and stated that in your experience cashiers there *aren't* in the habit of using their UV scanners or holding money up to the light (to expose some of the hidden security features). This is, in light of what happened there 7 years ago, strangely ironic (and relevant), especially when people elsewhere, like the OP, can't use $100 bills where they live.
#2b) My stories and explanations about fakes so good the UV detectors were useless were entirely appropriate in light of your post. They may not have anything to do with YOU, but they certainly had to do with your ignorant remarks.
#3 & #4) STOP right there! Did I even once mention US bills in my post? NO. So then I could not even once have mentioned "surprise" at Windsor merchants taking US money! This is what you do time and time again, make stuff up that isn't there and create an argument (or deflection) out of it. Where do you get this stuff???
#4) See #1. Not only was your little lesson about Windsor extremely & deliberately condescending and unnecessary, but having just had a go at 'isajoo' for making wild assumptions, you've gone and done the same thing. FYI: I've been to and through Windsor literally dozens of times - I know how things work there.Our merchants are quite willing to take them and in the best interest of their business, have taken the security measures required to ensure they get 'real' money. But according to you, as I quoted at the top of Post#26 (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6785994&postcount=26), "I don't remember ever having one checked."(by UV) and "I have however, seen them put it up to the light (regualr light) once or twice" That's completely contradictory to the statement quoted above!
By the way my U.S. money comes from a U.S. bank, so the chances of my having counterfeit money is slim to nil as they have already been checked.Yawn... Post#29 (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6786176&postcount=29) covered this. (Bonus, I'll throw in a US-link (http://www.news-article.net/3815/fake-money-from-bank-machines/)). Bottom line: it's irrelevant to a retailer where the money supposedly came from - every incoming bill has the potential to be counterfeit. If you're going to post in a thread, at least do us the courtesy of reading what's already been posted so we don't have to constantly go in circles repeating what's already been established.

Wait, wasn't that how this post started?

[ghostryder]

disordered is correct.

Retailers have the right to not accept any form of payment they wish to if you are buying something, BUT they must accept all forms of legal tender if it is for a repayment of a debt, which it is in this case.

They can still refuse legal tender but if they do no interest can accrue from the time you attemted to pay the debt with legal tender. The original debt remains though.

[laptop-tech]

CT locations around the GTA are full of FAIL. RFDers report many incidents of poor judgement & service policy.

RFDers report problems with EVERY single company on Earth. List all companies you can remember, from A to Z and we'll find a thread b!tching about them.


Classic example is this thread. ANYWHERE you go theres a chance you cannot use a $100 bill, but the OP believes the world has to spin around his needs.

[RenegadeX]

disordered is correct. Retailers have the right to not accept any form of payment they wish to if you are buying something, BUT they must accept all forms of legal tender if it is for a repayment of a debt, which it is in this case.They can still refuse legal tender but if they do no interest can accrue from the time you attemted to pay the debt with legal tender. The original debt remains though.I actually remember reading through this debate here before, and when I found the thread I was thinking of, noticed, somewhat coincidentally, that 'InvisibleSoul' had chimed in with the same thing then, as well [link (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508186&p=5846290)]. As nobody there or here now has provided any supporting evidence to confirm that or what 'ghostryder' said, I sent off an email to the Bank of Canada today in the hopes of getting an answer that can put the debate and uncertainty to rest. When I get a reply, I'll post it!

[RenegadeX]

Well that was quick!
In reply to my email: ..some say the store was well within their right, others claimed that a credit card payment is an offer of repayment of debt, and therefore they must accept it. Others said that the store has the right to refuse that method of payment, but by doing so, no interest may accrue on the account from the time the attempted repayment was refused.

In my mind, "goods or services" in the statement[on the Bank of Canada webpage] is the same as paying off a store credit card debt, so I say the store has the right to refuse the $100 bill. (I wish they wouldn't, but that's another matter entirely).

Who is right? Could you please clarifyThe Bank of Canada replied:


Good day,

This is in response to your question in which you asked if Canadian businesses have the right to refuse Canadian bank notes (legal tender).

The Bank is often asked why bank notes are called "legal tender" if merchants may refuse them. In Canada, legal tender consists of coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint and bank notes issued by the Bank of Canada.

The Bank of Canada Act gives the Bank the sole authority to issue bank notes for circulation in Canada, the Bank of Canada has no control over, or responsibility for, how bank notes are used to settle commercial transactions.

The term "legal tender" describes the money approved in a country for paying debts or settling commercial transactions. This does not force anyone to accept that form of payment. The method of payment used in a transaction (for example cash, cheque, debit card, credit card or barter) is a matter of private agreement between the buyer and the seller and must be acceptable to both of them.

The Bank of Canada understands that retailers can refuse bank notes. However, it encourages retailers to consider the impact of this approach on consumer convenience and to pursue counterfeit detection practices rather than refuse particular denominations altogether.

So yes, a merchant may refuse to accept bank notes, or even specific denominations of bank notes, as a method of payment for goods or services. Just because bank notes are legal tender does not mean they have to be accepted as a means of payment.

There are several reasons why retailers may choose to refuse notes. For example, some small businesses have security concerns if they are open 24 hours; others have difficulty maintaining a float if they give change for large bills.

The Bank encourages retailers to verify security features to ensure that bank notes are genuine. This is more customer-friendly than policies of refusing certain denominations for counterfeiting concerns, and it’s also a more effective protection against counterfeiting losses. We have many free services and materials to show retailers how to quickly and easily verify bank notes. More information is available from our website at www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes.

I hope this information is helpful.

Regards,

Carol Ann Levett
Customer Service Representative
Bank Note Communication and Compliance Team
Bank of Canada

So there we go. OP should go back to CT and apologize to the cashier.

[voyager6868]

So, did the OP ever hear back from CT about his "abuse"? :cheesygri