Laptop for Design

[Mac10]

My sis is looking for a laptop that will run adobe photoshop, illustrator and quark express really fast and smooth. She is adamant about a macbook pro, but they are quite expensive, with the cheapest at 1899 with student discount. Wouldnt a high end hp or dell be satisfactory for her tasks.

I went to dell.ca and got a inspiron with a t7250 core 2 duo, 4 gb ram, 8600gt gfx card, and 160 gb hard drive for 1450 which is alot cheaper than the macbook pro. Please help me and give me some ideas.

[bernZ]

"My sis is looking for a laptop that will run adobe photoshop, illustrator and quark express really fast and smooth."

How fast and how smooth? :lol: What is she using right now?

[Ryuu]

I'm not as knowledgeable with computers as I'd like =( but I do know enough to say that the softwares are the same on a Mac or a PC. Also that PC's have the advantage in terms of hardware (selection, upgradibility, etc).

People in design only use Mac's cause they were better for it in the past, but now there's really no difference between a Mac and a PC. It's just that the "Mac=design/artsy" mentality stuck and now people in the field are either too lazy, simply don't want to or is embrassed to switch to/try PC's :lol: (Please don't flame me if I'm totally wrong here :o I'm a noob! :()

Or...does the OS really make THAT much of a difference?

Sorry kinda went offtopic there, but what I wanted to say is that yeah, I think that a high end PC laptop would work. And I'm sure there'll be lots of people to correct me if I'm wrong...=)

[TruE SkiLLS]

I'm not as knowledgeable with computers as I'd like =( but I do know enough to say that the softwares are the same on a Mac or a PC. Also that PC's have the advantage in terms of hardware (selection, upgradibility, etc).

People in design only use Mac's cause they were better for it in the past, but now there's really no difference between a Mac and a PC. It's just that the "Mac=design/artsy" mentality stuck and now people in the field are either too lazy, simply don't want to or is embrassed to switch to/try PC's :lol: (Please don't flame me if I'm totally wrong here :o I'm a noob! :()

Or...does the OS really make THAT much of a difference?

Sorry kinda went offtopic there, but what I wanted to say is that yeah, I think that a high end PC laptop would work. And I'm sure there'll be lots of people to correct me if I'm wrong...=)

pc doesnt have logic pro studio, or final cut pro =D

to tell you the truth, a macbook would work. just make sure u get 2gb ram on it and it will run smooth for sure, esp with the processor speed right now.

[Mac10]

Well right now at school shes uses imacs and shes says there really fast, at home we use a p4 3.0ghz 2 gb ram and 128mb gfx card(ati x1050).

The only problem with a macbook is that it does not have a dedicated gfx card and uses the x1300. We might run into problems there.

[skewed]

Unless you are rendering stuff in 3D or playing 3D games. The X1300 is more than likely good enough.

[TruE SkiLLS]

Well right now at school shes uses imacs and shes says there really fast, at home we use a p4 3.0ghz 2 gb ram and 128mb gfx card(ati x1050).

The only problem with a macbook is that it does not have a dedicated gfx card and uses the x1300. We might run into problems there.

theres no real benefit of having a dedicated gfx unless ur running games or heavy 3d applications.

if its photoshop or illustrator design, its 2d applicaiton, most of it will be dependent on cpu and ram

[bcbgboy13]

OP, check out this:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=558223
and you will be able to build a top of the line workstation for $1500 plus the tax
The most important thing - you can have 15.4" display with the full HD resolution - it is the best thing that you can have for CAD work (and possible Art work - do not know if this is a major requirement)

Example:ThinkPad T61 15 Widescreen - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
Edit 6459CTO $1,480.88 1 $1,480.88
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9300 (2.5GHz 800MHz 6MBL2) 1
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Business 64 1
Operating system Language: Genuine Windows Vista Business 64 - English 1
Display type: 15.4 WUXGA TFT 1
System graphics: NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M 256MB 1
Total memory: 1 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 (1 DIMM) 1
Keyboard Language: US English Keyboard 1
Fingerprint : Integrated fingerprint reader 1
Pointing device: UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) 1
Hard drive: 160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm 1
Intel Turbo Memory hard drive cache: Intel Turbo Memory 1GB 1
Optical device: DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim 1
System expansion slots: PC Card & Express Card Slots 1
Card Reader: 4 in 1 Media Card Reader 1
WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN (US/CAN/LA/AP) 1
Bluetooth: Integrated Bluetooth PAN 1
Wireless USB Adapter: None 1
Wireless WAN accessories: None 1
Battery: 9 cell Li-Ion Battery 1
Power cord: 90W AC Adapter; NA, LA, (2pin) 1
Publication Language: English US Publication for Vista

You will need to buy your own 2 x 2 GB DDR2 memory as upgrading thru Lenovo is more expensive and if you want you can up the warranty as it is a very nice machine. You can also remove some of the things that are not required (example Intel turbo memory, go to 6-cell battery, etc...)

This will beat your MacPro and your DELL

Attention - This is a native WUXGA resolution (1920 x 1200) - it may not be that good for playing games. You can downgrade to a regular WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050) for $130 less.

[TruE SkiLLS]

why would u need to spend 1.5k for CAD work lol.
seriously, any type of laptop would do nowadays with 2gb of ram and a c2d cpu.

[aimfox]

Windows can't do video editing that well, try getting an Apple laptop.

[bernZ]

"Windows can't do video editing that well, try getting an Apple laptop."

That's just a misconception now. iMacs are not that powerful, just that their software was better written for their architecture. Now that Apple switched over to Intel chips there's no real 'need' to stay with Apple for video editing. Make sure that you know what kind of programs your sister will be using. If she feels better using Apple's programs, then just get a MacBook. There's absolutely no need to get a MacBook Pro for what she's doing.

[al3x89]

Windows can't do video editing that well, try getting an Apple laptop.

Yes they can.

[al3x89]

Well right now at school shes uses imacs and shes says there really fast, at home we use a p4 3.0ghz 2 gb ram and 128mb gfx card(ati x1050).

The only problem with a macbook is that it does not have a dedicated gfx card and uses the x1300. We might run into problems there.

You should be fine with one of the newer MacBooks (2.4/2gb/160)

I had the previous-gen MacBook 2.2/1gb/120, and I ran Photoshop, Final Cut Express and Dreamweaver sometimes at the same time, without any problems. More ram would've helped, but I was lazy.

[SAN66]

You can get a refurb last gen Macbook Pro for $1549 currently, the specs aren't really that different than the current gen MBP, so if your sister wants a MBP, you can get one for not much more than the price of the dell you listed.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=44BD9AA1&nclm=CertifiedMac

If you wait they even had some refurb MBP's for ~$1300, can't remember what the spec differences were, but they really weren't that different, I thinkg they were 2.16ghz instead of 2.2ghz, which you won't notice. The refurbs tend to come and go, so you just have to keep watch for the sweet deals to come up.

See this thread for more info: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=558977&page=1

If your sister is in a design program that uses macs, she should likely be able to get free licenses for the same software to use on her laptop, which would save some cash if you were actually planning on purchasing the software for the windows system.

[IoannI]

Windows can't do video editing that well, try getting an Apple laptop.

To tell you the truth Windows can do a pretty good job. I used Windows based machines at school as well as at home (on my crappy computer)for video editing and the overall result was still good.

[shrugs*]

Regarding concerns with the GMA on the Macbook, I use my Macbook 2.2 c2d sr + 4gb ram for work (print design). PS/LR/BR & IL all day long... with the odd FCP & Flash. No issues, it's quick.

Unless she's going to be working with an external monitor, I think right now the MBP's greatest attribute would be large screens available.

Mac vs. PC (for design) isn't an issue of performance.. more about work flow and user interface.

[Brandon]

Keep in mind screen resolutions. It's that which will affect your productivity quite a bit. Macbooks are 1280x800 and the Pro is 1440x900 (for the 15.4"). Some of the other notebooks like Dells and Lenovos have options for higher resolution screens.

I have a Macbook and I wish the resolution was a bit higher. That's one thing that can't really be upgraded in the future.

[subliminal]

She is adamant about a macbook pro


Is she studying to be a designer or is just tinkering in the field? You should take it from a designer's standpoint and see that it's not just about the specs but it's also about how it looks. Design is all about aesthetics and while Dell has made great strives towards better design, they just don't compare with a Macbook.

[TruE SkiLLS]

Keep in mind screen resolutions. It's that which will affect your productivity quite a bit. Macbooks are 1280x800 and the Pro is 1440x900 (for the 15.4"). Some of the other notebooks like Dells and Lenovos have options for higher resolution screens.

I have a Macbook and I wish the resolution was a bit higher. That's one thing that can't really be upgraded in the future.

tats why u connect it to an external monitor =D. but yes, with a smaller resolution, it really depends if she cares about it. And being a designer, Im pretty sure shes gonna have an external mouse + keyboard instead of using the integrated one. so i suggest also using external monitor (which is what im doing) and itll be like a desktop pc

[Brandon]

tats why u connect it to an external monitor =D. but yes, with a smaller resolution, it really depends if she cares about it. And being a designer, Im pretty sure shes gonna have an external mouse + keyboard instead of using the integrated one. so i suggest also using external monitor (which is what im doing) and itll be like a desktop pc

That kinda defeats the purpose of having a notebook. I only use an external BT mouse for my Macbook. The OP already has a desktop at home anyway.

[al3x89]

Keep in mind screen resolutions. It's that which will affect your productivity quite a bit. Macbooks are 1280x800 and the Pro is 1440x900 (for the 15.4"). Some of the other notebooks like Dells and Lenovos have options for higher resolution screens.

I have a Macbook and I wish the resolution was a bit higher. That's one thing that can't really be upgraded in the future.

Maybe you can find a 13.3" 1440x900 resolution screen on eBay.

[TruE SkiLLS]

That kinda defeats the purpose of having a notebook. I only use an external BT mouse for my Macbook. The OP already has a desktop at home anyway.

how?
at home, u easily plug it in, so u dont need another desktop.

when ur on the go, u have it as a laptop. tahts what im doing, i see no "disadvantage"... its better than buying 2 things.

[TruE SkiLLS]

Maybe you can find a 13.3" 1440x900 resolution screen on eBay.

Supported resolutions: 1280 by 800 (native), 1152 by 720, 1024 by 768, 1024 by 640, 800 by 600, 800 by 500, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio

That is for macs... theres no 1440 by 900 for macbooks.

[Brandon]

how?
at home, u easily plug it in, so u dont need another desktop.

when ur on the go, u have it as a laptop. tahts what im doing, i see no "disadvantage"... its better than buying 2 things.

Buying a lower resolution laptop monitor so that you can hook it up to a higher resolution display at home??? Kinda dumb IMO. Just get a high resolution built-in LCD for your notebook to begin with. The purpose of a notebook is to be able to work wherever you want.

If you're buying a notebook that's going to be used while on the go, then get one with higher resolution. It really makes a difference when doing photo editing. IMO, the Macbook's resolution of 1280x800 isn't that great. I used to have a Dell notebook with 1600x1200 resolution and I currently own a Macbook.

Supported resolutions: 1280 by 800 (native), 1152 by 720, 1024 by 768, 1024 by 640, 800 by 600, 800 by 500, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio

That is for macs... theres no 1440 by 900 for macbooks.

I believe that's just the limitations of the installed panel. The GPU supports resolutions higher than 1280x800. The problem with replacing the panel is that you have to find a replacement panel with the same mounting holes, connector type and signal type. This is quite hard.

[al3x89]

Supported resolutions: 1280 by 800 (native), 1152 by 720, 1024 by 768, 1024 by 640, 800 by 600, 800 by 500, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio; 720 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio

That is for macs... theres no 1440 by 900 for macbooks.

The screen is limited to 1280x800, but you can install a higher resolution screen, that's why I said search eBay...

The graphics card supports up to 1900xsomething I believe. I do know for a fact it does support 1440x900 cause I had my MB hooked up to my external, so if you get a 13.3" with 1440 resolution, then it will detect it and you'll be able to use it.

[TruE SkiLLS]

Buying a lower resolution laptop monitor so that you can hook it up to a higher resolution display at home??? Kinda dumb IMO. Just get a high resolution built-in LCD for your notebook to begin with. The purpose of a notebook is to be able to work wherever you want.

Okay... its not all about the resolution? maybe u get more space (at the same resolution), u can sit farther away on a desk PROPERLY and see everything?
I'm not ready to look at a small screen for that long.

no need to argue, u do w/e u want, i do w/e i want, and the op can decides for himself whats best for his sister.

The screen is limited to 1280x800, but you can install a higher resolution screen, that's why I said search eBay...

The graphics card supports up to 1900xsomething I believe. I do know for a fact it does support 1440x900 cause I had my MB hooked up to my external, so if you get a 13.3" with 1440 resolution, then it will detect it and you'll be able to use it.

of course you can do that, but tats basically telling him to basically void the warrenty of a new machine. if hes ognna get someone to install it... thats like basically paying for another laptop.

[Brandon]

Okay... its not all about the resolution? maybe u get more space (at the same resolution), u can sit farther away on a desk PROPERLY and see everything?
I'm not ready to look at a small screen for that long.

For the purpose of these applications: "adobe photoshop, illustrator and quark express", a higher resolution would be beneficial. Besides, you can change the DPI settings of your operating system and "regular" tasks can be scaled to look "normal".

This is even more important IMO considering most notebooks are widescreen now. Having a resolution of 1280x800 is like having a 15" 1024x768 monitor but just a little more real estate to work with width wise.

Looking at things relative to put it into perspective for the OP, the resolutions of several popular monitor sizes are as follows:

Desktop Monitors:
15" LCD: 1024x768 = 786432
19" WS LCD: 1440x900 = 1296000
17/19" LCD: 1280x1024 = 1310720
20" WS LCD: 1680x1050 = 1764000
20" LCD: 1600x1200 = 1920000
24" WS LCD: 1920x1200 = 2304000

Notebook Resolutions (currently common):
1280x800 WS = 1024000
1440x900 WS = 1296000
1680x1050 WS = 1764000
1920x1200 WS = 2304000

So if your sis is used to using a 17/19" desktop LCD, then the equivalent notebook resolution would be 1440x900 to get similar pixel real estate. It's not perfect, but it'll give you an idea of what she'll want. The two higher resolutions are available for Dell and Lenovo notebooks, but usually as upgrades.

[shrugs*]

..and the displays are TN-panels. That's a no-no for design.

[illusive]

Well, she is not going to be playing games like counter-strike so she will not benefit from a high end graphics card. I have been a PC user since my parents bought me a 286 with MSDOS6. I've used every iteration of Windows right up to vista at which point I tried and eventually switched completely to OSX Leopard.

I am also a design major. I would personally recommend a c2d Macbook with 2gigs of ram as a standard workstation to comfortably run all adobe cs3 applications. I primarily work in adobe flash and photoshop so colour "accuracy" (we're talking about print proofing here) isn't really relevant to me as a screen based interactive designer.

Your sister would benefit from a mac more than she would a pc notebook/laptop. She needs to be comfortable with OSX because when she goes to work for a design studio after graduating do you think they'll want to hire someone who doesn't know how to perform simple tasks like: mounting or ejecting a disk image, connecting to a remote server using afp, adding or removing applications from the computer, or someone who has to ask why ctrl+z/c/v don't work? (these are just examples of silly things I remember learning the first time I sat down with the os). Aside from all of that, what really surprised me is that OSX has got an amazing work environment, and there is a HUGE open source community that has devoted itself to providing all mac users with high quality applications for free.

You just want whats best for her, and my honest opinion as someone in the industry, do your sister a favour and get her a mac. She also has the option to run windows from within OSX using bootcamp in case she ever needs to (easy to set up, fully supported by OSX Leopard).

This is not the only solution, but in my opinion the best and simplest.

[illusive]

BTW: Ram is very easy to upgrade on mac laptops, and you can even buy it from a place like Canada Computers (doesn't have to be "apple certified" just needs to be the right speed).

Good luck.

[IronMac]

I am also a design major. I would personally recommend a c2d Macbook with 2gigs of ram as a standard workstation to comfortably run all adobe cs3 applications. I primarily work in adobe flash and photoshop so colour "accuracy" (we're talking about print proofing here) isn't really relevant to me as a screen based interactive designer.

I'm a bit surprised that running Flash would not mean getting an MBP over an MB. I'm looking into running CS3 and an MB would be fine until you ask the salespeople at the Apple Store at which point they strongly suggest an MBP if you're running Flash too simply for the separate graphics card.

[spiralspirit]

I'm an architecture major and I speak from experience.

The programs she'll be using are Photoshop, Indesign, Illustrator, some kind of CAD software, and a some 3d render program depending on the school. None of these require a heavy graphics card, aside from the 3d program, and it won't like any video card you put in a laptop anyways. Get a fast processor and a decent amount of ram (2-4gb) and it will work great.

A lot of my friends have apples, and they work fine, but 99% of them have pirated windows onto their mactops anyways, because they need it for AutoCAD or because they want to run one of several bajillion PC programs that won't run on OSX.

If money is tight, go for any decently spec'd PC laptop. Dedicated graphics aren't needed unless she's planning heavy 3d rendering, and even without them it will work just more slowly.

Personally I bought an Acer 5672 WMLI, and I love the laptop but I regret getting the dedicated graphics (ATI X1600). AutoCAD and most 3d graphics programs don't like the mobility video card, so they don't really use it anyways when rendering. It does tend to get very hot (the video card), and the drivers for it are a bit funky. In this regard apple drivers are better, since they limit the hardware on their platform. Also I've noticed laptops with dedicated graphics tend to have lower battery life. It's not a big deal from me, since I got from home (plugged in) to studio (plugged in) and don't really take it anywhere else. My screen is also a bit lower resolution that I would buy if I had a second chance (1280x800).

For ease of use make sure whatever it is has a decent amount of USB ports (I tend to say at least 3, one for mouse, one for USB key, one for FOB for protected programs). Make sure it has decent graphics connectors for presentations (there will be many of those). Mine has VGA, DVI, and S video, but I've only used the VGA. An in-unit card reader is really convenient since if she's going to be taking a lot of photos and pulling out an adapter all the time can get annoying quickly.

Screen size is really important. Get the highest resolution screen you can, since it helps a lot. You can always zoom in. Remember that glossy screens look great, but cannot be used well in brightly lit areas.

I'm still using my Core Duo T2300, 2 gigs SODIMM @ 533mhz, and 120gb HDD and aside from needing more room all the time it works great running XP and all the programs mentioned earlier. A $150 external pocket drive like Western Digital makes solved the storage problem quickly.