Any snowmobilers here?

[stealth]

Looks like it was a great year for it, unlike the past 3-4 years.

I've been thinking of getting one at end of season prices, and wanted to do some research so if anyone knows of any local forums, I'd appreciate the link as well as any tips or experiences.
What I'm looking for is a 2-up, year 1998 or better, with reverse, elec start and preferably EFI.

[Bullseye]

I would have thought and hoped that gas at $1.10 would kill off a lot of the enthusiasm for snowmobiling.

Pointless pollution, for no reason at all other than a thrill ride for the individual choosing to engage in it. And most snowmobiles are horrible polluters, 2-stroke engines with almost no emission controls.

'Further, according to the California Air Resources Board, today's typical 2-stroke snowmobile engine produces as much harmful pollution in seven hours as a passenger car driven for 100,000 miles.'

http://www.edf.org/pressrelease.cfm?contentID=2300

[stealth]

Sorry, didnt think this was the Green forum. :confused:
Maybe you can go into the food forum and irrelevantly preach about how bad fast food is to people when you get a chance, or help David Suzuki bust into homes and throw out perfectly working refrigerators and lightbulbs :)

Thanks for coming out :D

[gherikill]

Sorry, didnt think this was the Green forum. :confused:
Maybe you can go into the food forum and irrelevantly preach about how bad fast food is to people when you get a chance, or help David Suzuki bust into homes and throw out perfectly working refrigerators and lightbulbs :)

Thanks for coming out :D

+1

[Bazooka Joe]

Autotrader is the place where I'd be looking if I were you.

There's another paper magazine, released once a week that has people selling used stuff, which I can't remember atm. I can picture exactly what it looks like on the shelf but I can't remember the darn name. If I end up recalling it I'll add another post.

[Bullseye]

Your thread was almost a day old with no replies, so it's not exactly like I derailed any good discussion. :lol:

I didn't expect a change of heart from you, anyways, I posted thinking that it might make others aware of the danger that snowmobiles pose to our air quality. A danger that serves zero practical purpose, I might add.

I'll recommend x-country skiing as a non-polluting alternative, though. No fumes, no noise, and great exercise to boot.

[Bazooka Joe]

Your thread was almost a day old with no replies, so it's not exactly like I derailed any good discussion. :lol:

I didn't expect a change of heart from you, anyways, I posted thinking that it might make others aware of the danger that snowmobiles pose to our air quality. A danger that serves zero practical purpose, I might add.

I'll recommend x-country skiing as a non-polluting alternative, though. No fumes, no noise, and great exercise to boot.

Just to start an arguement for the heck of it (why else would we be here?) I'd respectfully like to disagree with you here, and I know a number of fishermen who would also disagree. On all counts really.

That anecdote you refer to previously is likely referencing two stroke machines and considers "pollution" the uncombusted hydrocarbons. When compared to a modern 4 stroke machine there is quite a difference. Exactly which form of pollution are we talking in your comparison? Uncombusted hydrocarbons or the products of combustion?

As for practical purpose, it's as practical in winter as a boat in the summer months, and also for access to inaccessible areas. Mind you anyone south of the 49th might not have this concern/use. Police, search and rescue, and firefighters must all be trained in their use where I live, and for good reason. In downtown TO not so much.

[Bullseye]

That anecdote you refer to previously is likely referencing two stroke machines and considers "pollution" the uncombusted hydrocarbons. When compared to a modern 4 stroke machine there is quite a difference. Exactly which form of pollution are we talking in your comparison? Uncombusted hydrocarbons or the products of combustion?

The article refers to both kinds of pollution, as well as greenhouse gas forming emissions;

'According to EPA, each year pollution from these engines produce about 4.9 million tons of carbon monoxide, nearly 1 million tons of hydrocarbons, 340,000 tons of nitrogen oxides, and 8 thousand tons of particulates. This reflects about 13% of the hydrocarbon emissions from all mobile sources and about 6% of the mobile source carbon monoxide emissions. '

As for practical purpose, it's as practical in winter as a boat in the summer months, and also for access to inaccessible areas. Mind you anyone south of the 49th might not have this concern/use. Police, search and rescue, and firefighters must all be trained in their use where I live, and for good reason. In downtown TO not so much.

I could concede that there is a practical use for them in rescue, fire, and police situations. Also for people in northern communities where a road vehicle is useless or impractical in winter.

[stealth]

Autotrader is the place where I'd be looking if I were you.

There's another paper magazine, released once a week that has people selling used stuff, which I can't remember atm. I can picture exactly what it looks like on the shelf but I can't remember the darn name. If I end up recalling it I'll add another post.

Thanks, I think the one you're thinking of is called "Tri-ad" or something....I think its part of Buy and Sell now.

Your thread was almost a day old with no replies, so it's not exactly like I derailed any good discussion.

I didn't expect a change of heart from you, anyways, I posted thinking that it might make others aware of the danger that snowmobiles pose to our air quality. A danger that serves zero practical purpose, I might add.

I'll recommend x-country skiing as a non-polluting alternative, though. No fumes, no noise, and great exercise to boot.
Nor did you contribute anything worthwhile or germane to THIS TOPIC...consider it derailed now, officially. You trolled and you know it.

Your posts are almost always intelligent and informative. That is not my objection. Its that it was completely irrelevant, preachy, self-righteous, and judgemental without knowing much about my intention for the snowmoblile. I take offense to being judged by people who know nothing about me, and I know nothing about their eco-friendly or non-eco-friendly habits, hobbies and vices.

Are you going to go into every post on this forum, and chastise someone for buying say an OUTBACK instead of a Smartcar? Or for driving to work instead of taking mass transit or bicycles? Not to mention the excesses that you would find in threads in the other forums on home improvement, electronics and fashion. Someone could walk into anyones home or lifestyle and criticize their excesses, including yours. Big deal. You wont have much time on your hands if you do....

I could concede that there is a practical use for them in rescue, fire, and police situations. Also for people in northern communities where a road vehicle is useless or impractical in winter.

Thats your opinion (and an arrogant one), thanks, BUT noone asked "who should have the right to own a snowmobile?", nor the ethics of doing so. Start your own thread if you feel compelled to do so.

For the record, we own a cottage on an island that we would like to use in the winter. Although its only a couple of kms offshore, the time and effort we found it took, to carry food, clothes, water, etc. while on x-country skiis and a sled tied to my Malamute, made it arduous and impractical. We have no intention of using trails as we arent interested in snowmobiling as a sport, nor could we justify the additional expense for permits, insurance, fuel and maintenance, and such are looking to minimize our impact and expenses by choosing a cleaner burning EFI model and a relatively small displacement motor size.

And before you criticize the whole notion of cottaging as wasteful, perhaps it is, but in our minds, no more so than people who use nasty airplanes to travel to impoverished countries to exploit their already burdened workers, environment and resources.

[Bullseye]

Stealth - my original post was not directly made towards you, as you are correct, I have no idea what your intention is for it. I was thinking more in terms of raising awareness, as it doesn't occur to most people that what they are doing is harmful. I hate the thought of sounding preachy, as I know that is not the way to convince people of anything, but it's difficult to raise awareness without doing so. I'll admit that I should have started my own thread, but then it just sounds even more preachy. So I apologize for posting in your thread. If there had been other responses already, I wouldn't have done so.

And no, I don't or won't go into every thread and chastise people for their decisions, I think it's fair to say that snowmobiling is just a hot button issue for me. Probably because it's responsible for such a disproportionate share of emissions, and because it's almost entirely a recreational pursuit.

P.S. my response did bump the thread up and garner you some useful information, it seems.

P.S.s. my Outback is a partial zero emissions vehicle, serves a family of four, and is useful for my wife, an essential services worker, to get to her workplace in any kind of weather. :razz: