Those with daughters.....HPV Vaccination?

[3weddings]

PROTECT
YOUR
DAUGHTER
Every year in Ontario hundreds of women are diagnosed
with cervical cancer. As many as
140 of them will die
of the disease.
Now, with Ontario’s HPV vaccination
program for
Grade 8 girls, you can help protect
your daughter
from cervical cancer.

I have 3 daughters, the oldest is 11, so I have a couple of years to ponder this. Hubby is dead set against it because it's a new vaccine.

I don't know. I've suffered from many women's ailments and am thinking if there is a way to protect my 3Weddings from cervical cancer then it's a good idea.

The last vaccination that they had as a preventative measure is the chicken pox vaccine (we paid for it when it was first introduced).

What are your thoughts?

I am not talking sexual activity here...I know one day they will become intimate. I am talking health benefits.

Thanks

[susan123]

I am very undecided - mostly since it is a new vaccine. It has not been truly tested and long term effects are unknown. And, if they don't get the vaccine, they can still get routine check ups and in most cases it can be caught early enough for successful treatment. However, having battled breast cancer at an extremely young age and given only 50% chance to survive for 5 years I know how scary that can be and how awful treatments can be, even if caught in time.

Both options are based on fear of the unknown - fear of the small possibility of cervical cancer and fear of small possibliity of complications from new vaccine. I'm glad my children are young and I have lots more years to think about it.

[mart242]

I think that I saw an article in maclean's or something like that a while ago where it was saying that the girl population of ontario was used as test pool for that vaccine.. you might want to do some digging to find that article.

[CSK'sMom]

Here in Ontario the vaccination is offered in grade 8 for free through the same public health program that does and offers the Hep. vaccination.

Our daughter will be in grade 8 next year. We're going to have it done for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I am a cervical cancer survivor. It's not fun to go through and is downright frightening. In my case it was an extremely fast growing type of full blown cervical cancer and not pre-cancerous cells. A clear PAP and 10 months later a full blown cancer that needed to be treated somewhat aggressively. Thankfully it had not spread. If we can protect our daughter from that experience we will. We were even willing to pay the $600+ to have it done.

Now I will say there are some unknowns with this vaccine. The big one is we don't know yet if a booster will be needed but we do know that it works against the strains of HPV that it's intended to. I don't think the unknowns outweigh the known benefits with this vaccine...

mart, I think what you're referring to is the news stories earlier this week. The numbers just came out for the vaccines that happened in Sept for the first time. Only something like 56% of girls opted for the vaccine here in Ont. In comparison to other provinces that offer it the numbers were really low. Most other provinces have numbers somewhere around 70% participation. Our low numbers are blamed on a couple of things. Firstly, the vaccinations were 3 weeks (or less) after the start of school. The program was quickly rolled into the Hep. vaccination program and many parents didn't get the info. The other thing is that there was an election going on when the announcement was made that the province would start providing this vaccination. Again, it didn't get the news coverage that it should have. It also didn't help that some school boards were fighting this vaccination happening in the schools. They are saying that the numbers should be far higher next year, more in line with the other provinces, when the info actually gets to parents in a timely manner...

[Psubs]

It's free, get it done. I get the Flu shot every year.

Cervical cancer doesn't sound fun at all. I love our country that thinks preemptively where a $600 shot now may avoid much larger medical costs to the government down the road.

I say if your religion allows for shots, you should get it.

[seff]

My daughter is only 10, but I already know that she will be getting the vaccine. Both my sister and myself were treated after abnormal PAP tests. So I will do whatever I can to protect my daughter. Just my two cents worth

[CowDoc]

So time for my soapbox, please take what I am saying with a little grain of salt. Why not vaccinate boys?

1. If compliance rate is 50% and on average boys tend to have more sexual partners than girls then why not vaccinate boys to lower risk to girls

2. It may lower risk of prostate cancer. So take the relatively low rate of cervical cancer vs. the huge rate of prostate cancer. Throw in the low rate of annual exams for men and the mortality rate goes through the roof.
http://www.health-science-report.com/alotek/topics3/article41/



So why not vaccinate the boys???

Dr. Kevin (veterinarian)

[CSK'sMom]

Good point Kevin. I seem to remember hearing that the vaccination was in trials for males. I know I did read that some doctors were indeed giving it to their own boys even though it's not approved for males.

A quick google turns up that yes indeed it is in trials for males and the results are expected later this year. The maker says that it may be approved and marketed for males next year. If that's the case we'll be having our 16 and 18 yr old boys done as well...

[lochlan651]

My daughter is 11 weeks, so I should have plenty of time.

Just curious, and maybe I am just too naive, but can anyone give actual examples of vaccines (not medications, but child vaccinations) that were distributed on any scale in Canada that ended up actually being harmful??

Or the US, or anywhere else in the developed world for that matter?

Listen, I have lots of things that the government does on lots of levels, but I really doubt they would release, and endorse something like this without being pretty darned sure it was not going to hurt children.

Then again...maybe I am naive.

[nalababe]

I don't have a daughter; however, if I did, I'd sign her up asap!

HPV is extremely common (this is the virus for most warts). A very high percentage of incidents of cervical cancer have their start with HPV, why would you even question?

Sorry, don't buy the sex argument.

And for the person who said vaccinate boys...Sorry...doesn't work that way. HPV is not only a sexually transmitted disease....

[Topher]

My daughter is only 6, so I've got some time to consider it. I think it's a good idea, and my initial thought is to do it, but my wife is the medical professional and would know far more than me, so I will trust her judgement on this one.

[CSK'sMom]

nalababe, the vaccine is being tested in males now. HPV infection in men is linked to several cancers including penile cancer, oral cancers and anal cancer in gay and bi men. The stuff I've dug up seems to suggest about 60% of men are infected with HPV...

[3weddings]

After posting this morning, I had time to ponder this a little more. The oldest has two more years before she's offered it, by then I am sure there is more research available for us.

I am pro the vaccination, a scare a couple of years ago came to mind and I don't ever want any of mine to go through that!

This is turning into a great thread......a reminder why I love it here!

[getmail99]

here is my post last year - Aug 2nd, 2007

HPV vaccinations for girls

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472103&highlight=HPV

[getmail99]

My daughter is 11 weeks, so I should have plenty of time.

Just curious, and maybe I am just too naive, but can anyone give actual examples of vaccines (not medications, but child vaccinations) that were distributed on any scale in Canada that ended up actually being harmful??

Or the US, or anywhere else in the developed world for that matter?

Listen, I have lots of things that the government does on lots of levels, but I really doubt they would release, and endorse something like this without being pretty darned sure it was not going to hurt children.

Then again...maybe I am naive.

Hot from the press, my post last week
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552737


Another one
This vaccine just approved on Wed Feb 20, 2008 by FDA

FDA ties pneumonia deaths to infant vaccine
Agency panel considering approval of oral medicine for diarrhea virus


updated 11:20 a.m. ET, Fri., Feb. 15, 2008
WASHINGTON - GlaxoSmithKline Plc's rotavirus vaccine is associated with increased pneumonia-related deaths and other adverse reactions, U.S. regulatory staff said in documents posted on Friday.

The review comes ahead of a Food and Drug Administration advisory meeting next Wednesday to consider approval of the oral vaccine to prevent the most common cause of severe diarrhea and dehydration among infants and young children in the world.

FDA staff said its analysis of 11 studies revealed that in the largest trial, there was a statistically significant increase in deaths related to pneumonia compared with placebo, documents posted on the FDA's Web site said.

That study, which enrolled about 63,000 children, also found an increase in convulsions in children given the drug, named Rotarix. Another study found an increased rate of bronchitis, compared with placebo.

In a conclusion section, the FDA documents noted the pneumonia-related deaths and convulsions, but did not appear to make a recommendation to the advisory panel.

That expert panel will weigh the staff review, but makes its own recommendation, which is typically followed by the FDA.


Another thread
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420544

Another thread
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420610

[FunkyLady94]

I'm still curious about the results of HPV and hopefully they will create one that combats more than 4 strains of it. But, I like the idea and I think that every young woman should get the vaccine and hopefully insurance will cover it!

[nalababe]

nalababe, the vaccine is being tested in males now. HPV infection in men is linked to several cancers including penile cancer, oral cancers and anal cancer in gay and bi men. The stuff I've dug up seems to suggest about 60% of men are infected with HPV...

But the evidence does not suggest the same relationship as with cervical cancer and HPV. The shear numbers of the other cancers referred (anal, penile, mouth) are far less than Cervical. The percentage related to HPV are only a fraction....not like the cervical where you almost have a 100% direct relationship.

As for testing on boys...of course, if you have a vaccine that is only used for 50-55% of an age category, why would you not want to target the other subset...though even if approved, I'd be surprised if it were covered...there are far greater risks...

[Kamloops]

This is a hard decision for me after reading up on it. Want to make the right one but not sure what the right one is. There is more that one side to this.
The FDA Estimates Vioxx Caused 27,785 Deaths, Merck who makes Gardasil also made Voixx.

An excerpt from the the Canadian Medical Association Journal : Full article here: http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/rapidpdf/cmaj.070944v1

This is what gets me the most, the clinical trials of Gardasil to me seem like not enough of a trial.

"""Relatively few girls (about 1200 aged 9*15 years) were
enrolled in the clinical trials of Gardasil, the youngest
of whom were followed for only 18 months.11 Based on
the assumption that they will not yet have been exposed
to HPV viruses, girls in this age group represent the priority
target population for mass vaccination. Clearly,
this is a thin information base on which to construct a
policy of mass vaccination for all girls aged 9*13, as per
the National Advisory Committee on Immunization’s
recommendations"""

The Macleans Article is at http://www.macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp?content=20070827_108312_108312

Some more links:
http://www.familyaction.org/Articles/issues/family/parenting/gardasil-guinea-pigs.htm

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20080708/BC_Rhonda_Gardasil_Cipro_080708/20080708/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/05/08/HPVVax/

http://www.prwatch.org/node/7748

This is and interesting response to the Macleans article:

I have the actual articles quoted in the Maclean's article. According to the Canadian Medical Association Journal, we have one of the lowest rates of cervical cancer in the world and a very successful Pap smear program. Women/girls still have to get Pap smears after being inoculated because they can still get cervical cancer. Everything that is being said about the vaccine is pure speculation and inference at this point and being speculated by the very company that stands to gain billions of dollars. This is the same company that lied about the negative cardiovascular side effects of Vioxx that resulted in the deaths of 55,000 people from heart attacks and strokes. This is the company that I am to trust with the lives of my daughters? Thanks, but no thanks.

[CSK'sMom]

Funny this was bumped today as our daughter had her first vaccine yesterday. Only 2 girls in our daughter's school did not recieve the vaccinations.

Kamloops, that cma journal article is decieving. Quite often the Canadian equivalent of the FDA requires a small additional study conducted by Canadians in order to approve new drugs and vaccines that are already approved in the US. Case in point, Concerta. It was already approved and in widespread use in the US but a small, relatively short term study was required in addition to submitting the US study information in order for it to be approved for use here in Canada. That delayed the approval here for almost 2 years...

[Rishi]

So why not vaccinate the boys???

Dr. Kevin (veterinarian)
Politics. Why are pap tests covered by OHIP but PSA screening is not? Because public health measures for women create political goodwill but similar measures targeted toward men do not.

[gmark2000]

The Catholic school board in my area was hotly against it, thinking that it would lead to more promiscuity in the female students.

[jstaneon]

Keeping your legs closed is free!

Too many disease bags around nowadays

[TrevorK]

Just curious, and maybe I am just too naive, but can anyone give actual examples of vaccines (not medications, but child vaccinations) that were distributed on any scale in Canada that ended up actually being harmful??

There can definitely be unknown side effects to vaccines. It may be a small number, however it is interested that we had a massive cry to vaccinate all the younger crowd here against mumps and then right after found out about these side effects:
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/story.html?id=d13e67f9-2fd3-4890-9777-ef34d6bd4456&k=76830

What the reasoning behind the reactions were (to the vaccine, produced improperly, etc...) is irrelevant. The point is that with vaccines and other medications there is always a chance.


That being said, I don't have daughters, but if/when I do they will receive the vaccine. I may not choose to tell them what it is for (which means it would be administered outside of school), but it seems like HPV is a big issue. Just judging by the responses here of people who have first hand experience with it, it definitely seems like a growing concern.

[CheapScotsman]

we, too, have a couple of years to watch this unfold before we have to make a decision.

I am not fond of the controversy surrounding its lack of "testing" before being rolled out.

I have a couple of close friends who are nurses and they are not inclined to immunize their daughters (given the controversy)

How come they aren't offering this for free for women under the age of older (say like 30 or something). Nothing like creating a statistical testing pool.

[zoolander]

It's all about efficacy, probabilities, and personal beliefs.

Whereas anaphylaxis to a vaccine is a lottery and immediately treated, a potential link between vaccines and autoimmune diseases cannot be definitely ruled out.

Also review the risk factors for cervical cancer to help you decide:
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_What_are_the_risk_factors_for_cervical_ cancer_8.asp

[Piro21]

Keeping your legs closed is free!

Too many disease bags around nowadays

HPV, which causes cervical cancer, can be spread by means other than sex

[AnnaBanana]

Keeping your legs closed is free!

Too many disease bags around nowadays

Crossed legs are indeed free. Unfortunately joining a nunnery is not quite as popular as it was 100's of years ago (maybe this is different in your household?). Most people do engage in sex. We are not talking about pre-marital vs marital sex, people who are promiscuous vs people who have one partner their whole life. Sex with one infected person could resuld in HPV, sex with 100 could result in no HPV. Russian HPV roulette... and we all play it at some point... (if we have kids!).

[Kamloops]

Since cervical cancer grows slowly (often a decade from infection to full-blown cancer), there is no hard evidence yet that an HPV vaccine will actually lower the rate of cervical cancer. The vaccines can prevent some HPV infections that may lead eventually to cervical cancer if not diagnosed and treated. However, the tests have not lasted long enough yet to say definitively that the result will actually translate into a real decrease in cervical cancer. Evidence of real benefit therefore won't be available until enough years have passed that girls who receive the vaccine can be compaired against those who don't as they pass into adulthood and beyond.

That is quite a bombshell, and certainly a different message than Merck's marketing blitz has encouraged the public to embrace. Merck and its supporters would have you believe that time is of the essence and that society must move quickly to ensure that every young girl gets vaccinated. The main beneficiary of this hurry-up approach is Merck, not women and girls

Canadian government approval CA$300 million for provinces to access in order to implement mass HPV vaccination programs. What came out soon after was that only one short month before Stephen Harper's government put this plan into place, one of his former senior advisor has registered as a lobbyist for Merck

[poorgirl]

I have 2 daughters one is 15 and is getting her 3rd vaccination in October, cost $600.00 and not covered by our drug plan, we didn't care about the cost. She is the only one in her group of friends that has received the vaccinations, we have never discussed it with other parents.

2nd daughter is in grade 8 and will receive the shots for free, same thing it wouldn't matter we would get it anyway free or not.

We have so many unknowns in the world for this generation, I feel we should try and protect them as much as we can.

there are 2 ways of receiving the shot, one is with the large gun and the other is thru a needle, the needle does not hurt but the large gun does, try and request the needle.

[imak]

Vaccinating guys is useless, the prevalence of diseases like penile cancer is extremely low. HPV plays no recognized role in prostate cancer. And yeah HPV is all around, I'm sure more than 60% of all people, men and women, have it lying around. Most people aren't affected by this or even know that they have HPV.

We do it for girls because HPV is a KNOWN CAUSE of cervical cancer. You would only widely vaccinate a population to prevent against something that has a substantial prevalence and causes a great burden to the patient, as well as the healthcare system (unfortunately a lot of this is economics).

So time for my soapbox, please take what I am saying with a little grain of salt. Why not vaccinate boys?

1. If compliance rate is 50% and on average boys tend to have more sexual partners than girls then why not vaccinate boys to lower risk to girls

2. It may lower risk of prostate cancer. So take the relatively low rate of cervical cancer vs. the huge rate of prostate cancer. Throw in the low rate of annual exams for men and the mortality rate goes through the roof.
http://www.health-science-report.com/alotek/topics3/article41/



So why not vaccinate the boys???

Dr. Kevin (veterinarian)

[imak]

Politics. Why are pap tests covered by OHIP but PSA screening is not? Because public health measures for women create political goodwill but similar measures targeted toward men do not.

No, because PSA screening is not entirely useful in most cases. You should probably get educated a bit more before you make statements like that.

1. Very rarely would a single PSA tell you anything concrete about the presence of prostate cancer. It is most useful when used serially.
2. There are WAY too many false positives (ie other reasons for an elevated PSA). It is also not sensitive enough to be used as a proper screening tool.
3. A large portion of prostate cancers are absolutely harmless and most men die WITH prostate cancer, not OF prostate cancer. Even if we caught more of these prostate cancers, is it necessarily beneficial to the patient and the health care system to do so?

So why would the government waste a ton of money funding something that isn't soundly proven to be an effective screening measure?

Whereas with a pap, an abnormal pap can only be caused by HPV, which is a known causative agent of cervical cancer. We know that the large majority of cervical cancers will eventually become invasive, however it takes a while for the cancer to actually manifest. There is also a known treatment for the HPV before it becomes cancerous, so all of these qualities make the pap test a very effective screen.