Gun-Sniffing Dogs for TDSB

[kuqdew]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/toronto/2008/01/school_safety.html

Damn, now they wanna use dogs. I think this money could go towards schools better, especially the poorer ones.

[Peckerwood]

Gun sniffing dogs to root out violence in schools?

Laughable at best.

And this is the best thing that educators can come up with?

Sad

[corrupt123]

I go to a downtown public school, and in 5 years I have never seen anyone with a firearm, talked to anyone who carries (at least, carries at school) or heard of any incidents at school involving a firearm.

I HAVE however, seen paint peeling off the walls, been in classrooms with no heating, run extension cords 20 feet because outlets dont work, and seen a broken or missing window in just about every side of the school.

But yeah... dogs that can smell guns (how the hell would that even work?) sound good... :rolleyes:

[Valek]

Reminds me about a post I read about gun sniffing dogs in schools.
Basically, somewhere down in the States an alleged "bomb call" was called in at a school, and local law enforcement came in with their "bomb detecting dogs". They searched high and low, and even made all car owners (student and faculty both) unlock their cars for police to sniff and search. Turns out this was their objective all along: search a school and hand out tickets etc for all the minor charges they can find including: underage alcohol, marijuana posession, etc. All under the guise of a "bomb threat". It was a way for the local government/police to rake in some serious cash when they decided they needed to cash in on other people's freedoms. The local law enforcement dogs were not trained to sniff out bombs or anything of the sort, but were local police services dogs for drug sniffing.

This situation could be applied to the TDSB as well.

[Ebola]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/toronto/2008/01/school_safety.html

Damn, 10000 dogs. I think this money could go towards schools better, especially the poorer ones.

Where does it say 10000 dogs?

#1. The costs would be astronomical
#2. That's not even close to that many detector dogs in Canada, I'd give generous estimate to less than 700 dogs across Canada. CBSA has 72 across the whole country.


And yes, the dogs do work. I've had the pleasure of working with the CBSA detector dogs.. and they are amazing.

Now, the CBSA dogs are pure detector dogs, trained to detect and passively alert, so all of their effort is devoted to training. They detect currency, drugs, firearms, explosives and they do it well. Some dogs are specifically trained to smell for food , plant, and animals for the CFIA. The CBSA detector dog training centre trains dogs for law enforcement agencies across Canada and the US, and recognized for their high quality.

Police dogs are mixed detection, officer protection, suspect apprehension (otherwise known as attack dog), and tracking. So because their training is so diversified, they can't master as many scents for detection. That being said, they are still very effective with the scents they are trained on. (frequently firearms/explosives and narcotics)

So, if you ran a dog or two through the schools, you are definetly going to find any drugs ,firearms and such in people's lockers and on them.

[TenzoR]

how about spending that money on actually educating our kids (future) ...

[FearSonic]

how about spending that money on actually educating our kids (future) ...

Didn't you get the memo?

Safety first, education dead last.

[SALTY3142]

In my entire high school career, I think I used my locker for a whole 20 minutes! Always walked around with my backpack as did most of the students at my school. Also, If I had something like a weapon that I didn't want people to know about/find there is no way in HELL I would leave it in my locker, I would keep that on me at ALL TIMES!!! because of random locker checks, people knowing your combo, how easy it is to break into a locker etc. etc.

[corrupt123]

Where does it say 10000 dogs?

#1. The costs would be astronomical
#2. That's not even close to that many detector dogs in Canada, I'd give generous estimate to less than 700 dogs across Canada. CBSA has 72 across the whole country.


And yes, the dogs do work. I've had the pleasure of working with the CBSA detector dogs.. and they are amazing.

Now, the CBSA dogs are pure detector dogs, trained to detect and passively alert, so all of their effort is devoted to training. They detect currency, drugs, firearms, explosives and they do it well. Some dogs are specifically trained to smell for food , plant, and animals for the CFIA. The CBSA detector dog training centre trains dogs for law enforcement agencies across Canada and the US, and recognized for their high quality.

Police dogs are mixed detection, officer protection, suspect apprehension (otherwise known as attack dog), and tracking. So because their training is so diversified, they can't master as many scents for detection. That being said, they are still very effective with the scents they are trained on. (frequently firearms/explosives and narcotics)

So, if you ran a dog or two through the schools, you are definetly going to find any drugs ,firearms and such in people's lockers and on them.

So the dogs are trained to sniff GSR or something? How can a dog possibly smell a firearm if it hasn't been fired, or if it's been cleaned?

[Ebola]

So the dogs are trained to sniff GSR or something? How can a dog possibly smell a firearm if it hasn't been fired, or if it's been cleaned?

As for what they are trained to detect for firearms, I honestly don't know exactly. And if I did, I sure wouldn't say on a public forum. That being said, I honestly don't know the specifics.. as I am not on a need to know list for that info. Your guess is as good as mine.

I've seen our dogs detect .5 gram of weed, sealed in an "airtight bag", inside three seperate airtight containers (one inside the other) hidden deep inside a vehicle with all sorts of meat, perfume, and other scents sprayed all over the place to distract. (This was a demo by the way) So if there is any hint of one of their scents, they hit on it.

[cwb27]

So the dogs are trained to sniff GSR or something? How can a dog possibly smell a firearm if it hasn't been fired, or if it's been cleaned?

A dog can be trained to detect the scent of pretty much anything. And keep in mind a dog's nose is something around 10,000 more times sensitive then that of a human's.

[Nhiem]

You can't teach kids when their minds are preoccupied with sexual abuse or gun/weapons running through there head (and i'm not talking about the counter-strike fans).

[ephemera]

Why would a parent send their kids to an unsafe school?

This will just turn into a big political grandstanding mess. nothing new. Nothing will get done.

[cwb27]

Why would a parent send their kids to an unsafe school?

This will just turn into a big political grandstanding mess. nothing new. Nothing will get done.

Because they don't have a choice most times?

[Ebola]

In my entire high school career, I think I used my locker for a whole 20 minutes! Always walked around with my backpack as did most of the students at my school. Also, If I had something like a weapon that I didn't want people to know about/find there is no way in HELL I would leave it in my locker, I would keep that on me at ALL TIMES!!! because of random locker checks, people knowing your combo, how easy it is to break into a locker etc. etc.

The idea is also to let the dog's indicate on people mainly, not lockers.

[Mr D J]

What a dumb idea. The high school I went to never had any firearm related incidents and during the summer they DO NOT turn on the AC. Saving electricity... They have the AC but they never turn it on except on 35*+ days during the last week before the exams. It's torturous just to sit in a classroom. And the attendance office was wondering why I had so many absences close to the end of the year every year... Also, the lockers were in such bad conditions (I don't know if they fixed them yet though), doors weren't closing, some of them didn't have a roof (you could just reach into someone's locker with your hand over the top :lol:. I just wish they spent the money on something that would really benefit the staff and students.

[Aznkid2000]

yea one of my teacher told us about how they gonna have gun-sniffing dogs...

like how is that gonna work??? a guy and dog gonna walk down the hallway sniffing students?

[Ebola]

yea one of my teacher told us about how they gonna have gun-sniffing dogs...

like how is that gonna work??? a guy and dog gonna walk down the hallway sniffing students?

Pretty much. That's how it works at airports, border points, big events etc etc.

The dogs are passive, so if they detect something on you, they indicate passively to the handler, then you get questioned.

[cwb27]

yea one of my teacher told us about how they gonna have gun-sniffing dogs...

like how is that gonna work??? a guy and dog gonna walk down the hallway sniffing students?

How else would it work?

[just_For_ipod]

Because they don't have a choice most times?

Or because people are being paranoid and for the majority of schools there is no problem!
Have I seen a gun before?
Yes, plenty in Counter-strike.

Have I seen a gun in real life?
Yes, a nice colorful watergun.

Have I ever seen gang violence or violence that would likely get someone majorly injured?
No, with the exception of what I see on the news and on Youtube.

People, wake up, most schools are perfectly safe, if you want to help those schools that have a high risk of violence, sure. But don't overkill it by installing metal detectors in all school, with gun-sniffing dogs, etc, etc.

[cwb27]

Or because people are being paranoid and for the majority of schools there is no problem!
Have I seen a gun before?
Yes, plenty in Counter-strike.

Have I seen a gun in real life?
Yes, a nice colorful watergun.

Have I ever seen gang violence or violence that would likely get someone majorly injured?
No, with the exception of what I see on the news and on Youtube.

People, wake up, most schools are perfectly safe, if you want to help those schools that have a high risk of violence, sure. But don't overkill it by installing metal detectors in all school, with gun-sniffing dogs, etc, etc.

So are you suggesting that because you've had no personal experience with guns and violence the problem is non existent and over stated?

[UrbanPoet]

So are you suggesting that because you've had no personal experience with guns and violence the problem is non existent and over stated?

I definitely think it is.
Theres probably only a few problem schools.
But having random dog checks might be a deterrent for kids not to bring them to school....... But whats going to stop them from gang banging after school?

I think theres better ways of solving crime then this.
You can hire a million cops, give them all guns, dogs, metal detectors etc... But theres always a root to the problem.

These kids are gang banging b/c they are
-poor
-figure they have no other options in life
-surrounded by ****** people. eg. other gangsters, dads left them when they were young etc.
and last but not least.... because they dont give a ****.

These kinda thugs and gang bangers need direction in life. They need to have a better self identity to associate themselves with.
Self identity is so important in a young persons development that it can shape and change what and who they will become.

They gotta strive towards something positive, or at least be involved in their community. In the black community i find that the most successful black people i know are very socially conscious. they wanna fight the stereotypes and get their people get educated, get outta public housing, get jobs etc...

On the other hand, when i look @ my own asian community i see the same things going on. The gang banging/thug asians I see dont really have that much family support. Their parents are never home, and they are poorly educated. They skip school/drop out etc... The only thing they seem to strive for in life is to make it big with a grow op.

[Rembrandt100]

So the dogs are trained to sniff GSR or something? How can a dog possibly smell a firearm if it hasn't been fired, or if it's been cleaned?

What the dog is trained to smell is gun oil and gunpowder. Those are the only two consistant smells with almost every firearm.

It seems to me that most of the posters here not concerned about safety in the schools at all. How is a child supposed to get educated if the child is afraid to go to school or lives in fear while there? Either most of the kids that responded to the prereport survey lied or there really is a problem. I like to think that they lied but am not too sure about it.

Having said that I consider most of the report to be nothing more than a feel good approach. An example being putting dogs in all schools so that the schools that need them are not singled out as bad places. Insisting on the use of known friendly dogs like spaniels as opposed to German Shepards.

Dave

[Insane_Pikachu]

Please don't bash on me. I just think that having these dogs in school would make the learning environment more uncomfortable. If they use German Sheppard, some students would be scared having a big dog come up to you and sniff you and stuff. I'm not sure how well these dogs are trained to not bark @ innocent or non innocent people but they are still scary =(. I love dogs but sometimes a German Sheppard would make me a little uneasy when they are around.

[just_For_ipod]

So are you suggesting that because you've had no personal experience with guns and violence the problem is non existent and over stated?

Definately
I don't think its non existent but it is definately over stated. Having metal detector and dogs at all schools, definately overkill.

It seems to me that most of the posters here not concerned about safety in the schools at all. How is a child supposed to get educated if the child is afraid to go to school or lives in fear while there? Either most of the kids that responded to the prereport survey lied or there really is a problem. I like to think that they lied but am not too sure about it.
Don't say that no one here cares of the safety of the schools and the kids because I'm a student myself and I feel perfectly safe at my school.

A more reasonable approach would be to have them at schools flagged as high risk or that are regularly visited by police officers anyways.

Shesh, imagine the time it would take to check every student entering school at every entrance to the school, and even then someone can just use their weapons just outside of the school or like UrbanPoet said, afterschool.

[Ebola]

Please don't bash on me. I just think that having these dogs in school would make the learning environment more uncomfortable. If they use German Sheppard, some students would be scared having a big dog come up to you and sniff you and stuff. I'm not sure how well these dogs are trained to not bark @ innocent or non innocent people but they are still scary =(. I love dogs but sometimes a German Sheppard would make me a little uneasy when they are around.

Depends on who is doing the run through.

A police force would more than likely have a German Shepherd, or a Belgian Malinois, because again, they are trained for suspect apprehension and handler protection, so they need to be big.

But pure detector dogs are usually Labrador Retrievers, which obviously appear much less imposing.