Are there any gun ranges in GTA area?

[yegorpb]

Where unlicensed people can come to, and fire off a few shots with a rented gun?

[CSAgent]

There used to be one on campus at the UT St. George campus..but it closed down ever since gun crimes went up in the GTA. Supposedly, UT did not want to "promote" guns and having a gun range on campus became a touchy subject, so to avoid any drama they closed it down.

This was also because of the university shooting in Quebec that happened a few years ago, etc. compounded with Toronto's own gun problems.

[CYP3A4]

There used to be one on campus at the UT St. George campus.

Just out of curiosity, where was the location of this range? Was it actually on campus?

[nolimtzel]

jane finch and malvern are good choices, but i think you might recieve return fire.

[sexpuppet6000]

jane finch and malvern are good choices, but i think you might recieve return fire.

lol

[lochlan651]

There is this awesome tool out there nowadays called Google.
Give it a try.

Try clicking on the very first search result. Oh the wonderous interweb

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=toronto+gun+range&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[UrbanPoet]

if you dont plan on joining a club or getting your permits dont bother Unless you have friends in the club.

Its a very pretensious sport in the GTA.

[Bazooka Joe]

Although I don't have an answer to your specific question, I'd like to add there's a really fantastc club in the West Edmonton Mall that does this. They've got a huge selection of handguns, but don't forget to bring your CC, it gets pricey.

Calling one of these guys would get you somewhere though.

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/search/si/1/firearm/toronto/rca-00656800-Guns-Gunsmiths

[yegorpb]

I do plan on getting the permit, but before I do I would like to shoot at least once to see what its like.

[UrbanPoet]

If you get your permits they will be more likely to let you pop off a few rounds!
I stopped target shooting a while ago. But back in the day I'd go to a few clubs and they'd let me try it out until i picked the right one.
IF you call up a club they will for sure give you a trial run. But just be serious that your willing to get into the sport... its very unsetting for club owners and volunteers when they let someone in... let them test out one of their own personal guns and a box of ammo then never see them again =(

it gets kinda boring b/c the clubs in toronto were all old ppl.. I felt weird being this 20 yr old kid with a bunch of grandpas and uncles. None of my friends joined in b/c it gets expensive...
$200 or so to get your permit.
$500 for the first yr club membership (cheaper outside of TOronto).
$250 for a descent 22LR pea shooter. I started off with a Ruger Mark II. old and clunky but accurate as a laser!
you could get centre fire norincos (made in china clones of popular guns) for $350-$400. They got some descent stuff like COlt 1911's, sig 226/228 clones etc...

check out my old club Toronto SPortsmen association. They closed down 1 range, but still have one on royal york rd & queensquay.
Burlington gun club is a good one. ITs cheap! but you have to drive...
TOronto REvolver club is small but located in EAst York and is easily accessible by TTC.

[pfbmgd]

Without permit there is no place for you to shoot.Gromely might have a rental program if you have your permit.

The only other way is to find someone that shoots and get them to take you out .

There are several ranges just across the border that do have rental guns .I have tried several places by Rochester .I don`t know how the laws have changed after 911 .They may not allow non residents to rent guns now .

[spm24]

Although I don't have an answer to your specific question, I'd like to add there's a really fantastc club in the West Edmonton Mall that does this. They've got a huge selection of handguns, but don't forget to bring your CC, it gets pricey.

Calling one of these guys would get you somewhere though.

http://canada411.yellowpages.ca/search/si/1/firearm/toronto/rca-00656800-Guns-Gunsmiths

When i went they wouldn't let a person off the street try and rent a lane or what ever they are called. i guess its to not take away from the seriousness of the sport.

i had 3 pieces of id and CC ready

[ricoboxing]

go find a friend thats a member and he'll take you. Doubt that any club would let some stranger with no licenses randomly come in, rent a gun, and start firing off a few rounds.

[Bazooka Joe]

When i went they wouldn't let a person off the street try and rent a lane or what ever they are called. i guess its to not take away from the seriousness of the sport.

i had 3 pieces of id and CC ready

You went to the one in West Edmonton Mall?

I was there on various occasions throughout 2001 and probably fired a dozen different handguns. They had rifles too but I had no interest in those since I grew up around them. IIRC it was $45 for 30 minutes of the instructor's time (charged in minimum 30 minute blocks), $30 for each weapon you wanted to take on the range, and full retail price on the ammo. It was easy to drop $150-$200 on a half hour. They won't let you point the gun sideways or one handed FYI :p

I'd be surprised if there isn't a place like that in TO.

[Peckerwood]

The one in WEM is called the Wild West Shooting Center

The last time I was there they had no problem talking people off the street to come in a try out the sport...supervised of course by Range Officers

[yegorpb]

I found this: http://sharongunclub.org/intro.html

They let you shoot pistols, revolvers, assault rifles and shotguns, and you dont have to have a license. The only problem is that they are closed till april.

[AudiDude]

I got to "fire off a few shots" when I was in Vegas. It was fun. I used a Thompson M1A1 SMG .45, Colt M16 Carbine .223, and a H&K MP5 SMG 9mm. It was fun. I don't think they care if you hold a handgun sideways. They don't care who you are either just sign and print your name (or anyone elses for that matter) and put the date. Nobody checks anything, nobody cares.

Pick a target, pay for how many rounds you want to pop off. A guy hands you your gun and asks if you ever shot a "insert gun type here" before. If you say yes, they just hand you the gun, if you say no, they say "hold the gun here and here, lean forward a little and gently squeeze the trigger, here you go"

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/rental.htm

Nothing like that here though...

[Peckerwood]

I found this: http://sharongunclub.org/intro.html

They let you shoot pistols, revolvers, assault rifles and shotguns, and you dont have to have a license. The only problem is that they are closed till april.
I don't want to be a nitpicker...and please don't take this the wrong way. An AR15 is not an Assault rifle. The M16 is an assault rifle...that is to say, a rifle chambered for a cartridge intermediate in power between rifle and pistol...and is selective fire in operation, meaning that it can be changed from semiauto to fullauto with the use of a switch on the side of the gun.

So for future reference the AR15 is a semiauto only rifle...hence not an assault rifle. :)

Sadly there are no legal ways left available in Canada anymore for legal owners of grandfathered prohibited class selective fire guns to take to an approved range for shooting.

:(

[pfbmgd]

I don't want to be a nitpicker...and please don't take this the wrong way. An AR15 is not an Assault rifle. The M16 is an assault rifle...that is to say, a rifle chambered for a cartridge intermediate in power between rifle and pistol...and is selective fire in operation, meaning that it can be changed from semiauto to fullauto with the use of a switch on the side of the gun.

So for future reference the AR15 is a semiauto only rifle...hence not an assault rifle. :)

Sadly there are no legal ways left available in Canada anymore for legal owners of grandfathered prohibited class selective fire guns to take to an approved range for shooting.

:(


Just to clarify your classification of the AR15 .Both are assault rifles .It does not matter if they are full or semi auto .Just put them side by side and see if you can tell the diffrence .The new term for thse types of guns is black/green rifles .It sound so much better than assault rifle.

[Peckerwood]

Just to clarify your classification of the AR15 .Both are assault rifles .It does not matter if they are full or semi auto .Just put them side by side and see if you can tell the diffrence .The new term for thse types of guns is black/green rifles .It sound so much better than assault rifle.
Looks and cosmetic features have nothing to do with it.

The rifle MUST first be selective fire to be classed as an Assault Rifle. If it is semiauto then it is a Carbine.

[pfbmgd]

Looks and cosmetic features have nothing to do with it.

The rifle MUST first be selective fire to be classed as an Assault Rifle. If it is semiauto then it is a Carbine.

Ok I give it`s a Cabine Assualt Rifle .

[tritium4ever]

The only place I know of in Ontario where you can just drop in, rent a gun with some ammo, and blast away is Silverdale Sports Centre (http://www.silverdalesports.ca). It's about 45 minutes away from Toronto near St. Catherines, and the cost is $20 for a day pass plus whatever ammo you shoot. I can't seem to find the ammo prices on the site, but I think it was something in the range of 40 cents per round in 9mm (which isn't great, but it's not like you have another option). At that price a full magazine of a 9mm pistol will run you $4, which may not seem like much until you realize how fast you can empty a mag and move on to the next. :-0

As an alternative, many gun clubs will allow members to bring a guest. If you know or can find such a member, you'll be allowed to shoot anything that the range (and the law) permits but you'll have to be supervised by the member you're accompanying. People under 18 can also shoot under direct supervision, assuming they are physically capable of safely handling a gun.

Looks and cosmetic features have nothing to do with it.

The rifle MUST first be selective fire to be classed as an Assault Rifle. If it is semiauto then it is a Carbine.

Firearms in Canada aren't classified as "assault rifle" or "carbine." The major classes of firearms are unrestricted, restricted, and prohibited. Many rifles and shotguns fall under unrestricted, many handguns fall under restricted (there are no unrestricted handguns), and some of all three will fall under prohibited (including all full-auto weapons, regardless of operating method or form factor).

Anyone who looks into what guns fall under what classifications will quickly find that the laws associated with various firearms classifications are almost entirely arbitrary and often nonsensical. In other words, what a rifle is classified as depends only on what the government wants to call it. AK-47? Prohibited, even as semi-auto (hell you can disable an AK-47 permanently so that it cannot fire, and it is still prohibited). AR-15? Perfectly legal in semi-auto form, where it is restricted. Both are extremely deadly in the hands of someone who intends to kill. The only way one can own a prohibited weapon (of which there are several sub-classes) is to have the ownership status grandfathered, so it is impossible for anyone who cannot already own one to become an owner.

[pfbmgd]

Both are extremely deadly in the hands of someone who intends to kill.


Just like any other gun that fires 5.56 or 7.63x39.For that matter any item you can use to kill be it a car or a knife.

[UrbanPoet]

Ok I give it`s a Cabine Assualt Rifle .

its a carbine assualt rifle baby killing super machine gun right? :rolleyes:

[Ebola]

The only way one can own a prohibited weapon (of which there are several sub-classes) is to have the ownership status grandfathered, so it is impossible for anyone who cannot already own one to become an owner.

You forget one.

You can work for the good guys and have a prohibited firearm. ;)

[yegorpb]

Is there a database of guns where you can determine which ones are prohibited and which ones are restricted.

[UrbanPoet]

Is there a database of guns where you can determine which ones are prohibited and which ones are restricted.

sort of.... But there a guidelines.


restricted
---------
-all hand guns
-all AR variants
-shotguns and rifles with overall length less then 26 inches


non-restricted
--------------
all shotguns and rifles with the overall length over 26 inches

prohibited
----------
handguns with barrel under 106mm
select fire, and auto fire anything.


Correct me if im wrong. I've been out of the shooting sport scene for about 2 years now...

[pfbmgd]

There is a gun range in Union Station that is run by the Freemason's. If you know of person who is a member which isn't very hard to find they can get you in. It depends how well you know them of course.

LOL thats the best one yet .I have been to this range .I doubt many members are Fremason`s.

As to where to look up weapons .Try the link below it`s some where in there .

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/about-nous/default_e.asp

[Peckerwood]

Firearms in Canada aren't classified as "assault rifle" or "carbine." The major classes of firearms are unrestricted, restricted, and prohibited. Many rifles and shotguns fall under unrestricted, many handguns fall under restricted (there are no unrestricted handguns), and some of all three will fall under prohibited (including all full-auto weapons, regardless of operating method or form factor).
The confusing and altogether backwards method that the Canadian Government chose to employ in the creation of the legal classifications of firearms in todays world are without a doubt completely devoid of any direct empirical knowledge of actual firearm's classification within the gun industry itself...of this there is no question.

But as for pure definitions of actual firearms...I refuse to attempt to garner any sense through the Canadian system by adhering to it's inaccuracies; as the Canadian system is so rife with flaws and errors as to be utterly incoherent in it's application of the Law despite it's arbitrary nature.

The definition of Assault Rifle is not determined by the Canadian Legal System, but is rather an accepted definition offered by the Military institutions of the world. The definition that I presented was the accepted definition offered by both the US and Canadian Armed Forces(including the very same definition adopted through NATO)
Anyone who looks into what guns fall under what classifications will quickly find that the laws associated with various firearms classifications are almost entirely arbitrary and often nonsensical.
Exactly...and there is a distinct difference in definitions between the legal system of Canada gun laws...and the adopted definitions fused forth through the relevant gun industries and the Military institutions of the world.

That being that one group understands implicitly the firearms and their natures and operating mechanisms...and the other not knowing a damned thing about them except what they see in magazines and read about in literature predominantly biased as antigun in nature.
In other words, what a rifle is classified as depends only on what the government wants to call it. AK-47? Prohibited, even as semi-auto (hell you can disable an AK-47 permanently so that it cannot fire, and it is still prohibited).
Except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78...which are all AK variants and can actually take AK parts...make any sense yet? :)

And yes you can own a permanently disabled AK47 so long as it's disabling follows the Prescribed Deactivation Requirements set forth by the RCMP Firearms Forensics Division and is done only by a registered gunsmith authorized to do so.
AR-15? Perfectly legal in semi-auto form, where it is restricted.
And therefore must adhere to the same regulations that are expected of other restricted firearms such as pistols and firearms under an overall length of 26 inches
Both are extremely deadly in the hands of someone who intends to kill. The only way one can own a prohibited weapon (of which there are several sub-classes) is to have the ownership status grandfathered, so it is impossible for anyone who cannot already own one to become an owner.
These are known as the Class 12(x) prohibitions

[Peckerwood]

Is there a database of guns where you can determine which ones are prohibited and which ones are restricted.
http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor98-462/whole.html

This is a list of prohibited weapons in Canada...The S.O.R 98-462 lists specifically the firearms prohibited by Government as follows:

PART 1
PROHIBITED FIREARMS

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 3

1. Any firearm capable of discharging a dart or other object carrying an electrical current or substance, including the firearm of the design commonly known as the Taser Public Defender and any variant or modified version of it.

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 8

2. The firearm known as the SSS-1 Stinger and any similar firearm designed or of a size to fit in the palm of the hand.

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 11

3. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Franchi SPAS 12 shotgun, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Franchi LAW 12 shotgun.

4. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Striker shotgun, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Striker 12 shotgun and the Streetsweeper shotgun.

5. The firearm of the design commonly known as the USAS-12 Auto Shotgun, and any variant or modified version of it.

6. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Franchi SPAS-15 shotgun, and any variant or modified version of it.

7. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Benelli M1 Super 90 shotgun and the Benelli M3 Super 90 shotgun, and any variants or modified versions of them, with the exception of the

(a) M1 Super 90 Field;

(b) M1 Super 90 Sporting Special;

(c) Montefeltro Super 90;

(d) Montefeltro Super 90 Standard Hunter;

(e) Montefeltro Super 90 Left Hand;

(f) Montefeltro Super 90 Turkey;

(g) Montefeltro Super 90 Uplander;

(h) Montefeltro Super 90 Slug;

(i) Montefeltro Super 90 20 Gauge;

(j) Black Eagle;

(k) Black Eagle Limited Edition;

(l) Black Eagle Competition;

(m) Black Eagle Slug Gun;

(n) Super Black Eagle; and

(o) Super Black Eagle Custom Slug.

8. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Bernardelli B4 shotgun and the Bernardelli B4/B shotgun, and any variants or modified versions of them.

9. The firearm of the design commonly known as the American 180 Auto Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the AM-180 Auto Carbine and the Illinois Arms Company Model 180 Auto Carbine.

10. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Barrett "Light Fifty" Model 82A1 rifle and the Barrett Model 90 rifle, and any variants or modified versions of them.

11. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Calico M-900 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the M-951 carbine, M-100 carbine and M-105 carbine.

12. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Iver Johnson AMAC long-range rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

13. The firearm of the design commonly known as the McMillan M87 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the McMillan M87R rifle and the McMillan M88 carbine.

14. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Pauza Specialties P50 rifle and P50 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them.

15. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Encom MK-IV carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

16. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbines, and any variants or modified versions of them.

17. The firearm of the design commonly known as the FAMAS rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the MAS 223, FAMAS Export, FAMAS Civil and Mitchell MAS/22.

18. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Feather AT-9 Semi-Auto Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Feather AT-22 Auto Carbine.

19. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Federal XC-450 Auto Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Federal XC-900 rifle and Federal XC-220 rifle.

20. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Gepard long-range sniper rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

21. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Heckler and Koch (HK) Model G11 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

22. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Research Armament Industries (RAI) Model 500 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

23. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Spectre Auto Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

24. The firearm of the design commonly known as the US Arms PMAI "Assault" 22 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

25. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Weaver Arms Nighthawk Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

26. The firearm of the design commonly known as the A.A. Arms AR9 Semi-Automatic Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

27. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Claridge HI-TEC C, LEC-9 and ZLEC-9 carbines, and any variants or modified versions of them.

28. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Kimel Industries AR-9 rifle or carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

29. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Grendel R-31 Auto Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

30. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Maadi Griffin Rifle and the Maadi Griffin Carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them.

31. The firearm of the design commonly known as the AA Arms Model AR-9 carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

32. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Bushmaster Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

33. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Calico M-950 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the M-110 pistol.

34. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Encom MK-IV assault pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

35. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Encom MP-9 and MP-45 assault pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Encom MP-9 and MP-45 mini pistols.

36. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Federal XP-450 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the XP-900 Auto Pistol.

37. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Heckler and Koch (HK) SP89 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

38. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Intratec Tec-9 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Tec-9S, Tec-9M, Tec-9MS, and any semi-automatic variants of them, including the Tec-DC9, Tec-DC9M, Tec-9A, Tec-Scorpion, Tec-22T and Tec-22TN.

39. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Iver Johnson Enforcer Model 3000 Auto Pistol and the Iver Johnson Plainfield Super Enforcer Carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them.

40. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Skorpion Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

41. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Spectre Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

42. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Sterling Mk 7 pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Sterling Mk 7 C4 and Sterling Mk 7 C8.

43. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Universal Enforcer Model 3000 Auto Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Universal Enforcer Model 3010N, Model 3015G, Model 3020TRB and Model 3025TCO Carbines.

44. The firearm of the design commonly known as the US Arms PMAIP "Assault" 22 pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

45. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Goncz High-Tech Long Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Claridge Hi-Tec models S, L, T, ZL-9 and ZT-9 pistols.

46. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Leader Mark 5 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

47. The firearm of the design commonly known as the OA-93 assault pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

48. The firearm of the design commonly known as the A.A. Arms AP9 Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

49. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Patriot pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

50. The firearm of the design commonly known as the XM 231S pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the A1, A2 and A3 Flattop pistols.

51. The firearm of the design commonly known as the AA Arms Model AP-9 pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Target AP-9 and the Mini AP-9 pistols.

52. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Kimel Industries AP-9 pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

53. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Grendel P-30, P-30 M, P-30 L and P-31 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them.

54. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Claridge HI-TEC ZL-9, HI-TEC S, HI-TEC L, HI-TEC T, HI-TEC ZT-9 and HI-TEC ZL-9 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them.

55. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Steyr SPP Assault Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

56. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Maadi Griffin Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

57. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Interdynamics KG-99 Assault Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

[Peckerwood]

con't

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 12

58. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Sterling Mk 6 Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

59. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Steyr AUG rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

60. The firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the UZI Model A carbine and the Mini-UZI carbine.

61. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols.

62. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it.

63. The firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol.

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 13

64. The firearm of the design commonly known as the AK-47 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78 rifles, but including the

(a) AK-74;

(b) AK Hunter;

(c) AKM;

(d) AKM-63;

(e) AKS-56S;

(f) AKS-56S-1;

(g) AKS-56S-2;

(h) AKS-74;

(i) AKS-84S-1;

(j) AMD-65;

(k) AR Model .223;

(l) Dragunov;

(m) Galil;

(n) KKMPi69;

(o) M60;

(p) M62;

(q) M70B1;

(r) M70AB2;

(s) M76;

(t) M77B1;

(u) M78;

(v) M80;

(w) M80A;

(x) MAK90;

(y) MPiK;

(z) MPiKM;

(z.1) MPiKMS-72;

(z.2) MPiKS;

(z.3) PKM;

(z.4) PKM-DGN-60;

(z.5) PMKM;

(z.6) RPK;

(z.7) RPK-74;

(z.8) RPK-87S;

(z.9) Type 56;

(z.10) Type 56-1;

(z.11) Type 56-2;

(z.12) Type 56-3;

(z.13) Type 56-4;

(z.14) Type 68;

(z.15) Type 79;

(z.16) American Arms AKY39;

(z.17) American Arms AKF39;

(z.18) American Arms AKC47;

(z.19) American Arms AKF47;

(z.20) MAM70WS762;

(z.21) MAM70FS762;

(z.22) Mitchell AK-22;

(z.23) Mitchell AK-47;

(z.24) Mitchell Heavy Barrel AK-47;

(z.25) Norinco 84S;

(z.26) Norinco 84S AK;

(z.27) Norinco 56;

(z.28) Norinco 56-1;

(z.29) Norinco 56-2;

(z.30) Norinco 56-3;

(z.31) Norinco 56-4;

(z.32) Poly Technologies Inc. AK-47/S;

(z.33) Poly Technologies Inc. AKS-47/S;

(z.34) Poly Technologies Inc. AKS-762;

(z.35) Valmet M76;

(z.36) Valmet M76 carbine;

(z.37) Valmet M78/A2;

(z.38) Valmet M78 (NATO) LMG;

(z.39) Valmet M82; and

(z.40) Valmet M82 Bullpup.

65. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Armalite AR-180 Sporter carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

66. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Beretta AR70 assault rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

67. The firearm of the design commonly known as the BM 59 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including

(a) the Beretta

(i) BM 59,

(ii) BM 59R,

(iii) BM 59GL,

(iv) BM 59D,

(v) BM 59 Mk E,

(vi) BM 59 Mk I,

(vii) BM 59 Mk Ital,

(viii) BM 59 Mk II,

(ix) BM 59 Mk III,

(x) BM 59 Mk Ital TA,

(xi) BM 59 Mk Ital Para,

(xii) BM 59 Mk Ital TP, and

(xiii) BM 60CB; and

(b) the Springfield Armory

(i) BM 59 Alpine,

(ii) BM 59 Alpine Paratrooper, and

(iii) BM 59 Nigerian Mk IV.

68. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Bushmaster Auto Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

69. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Cetme Sport Auto Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

70. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Daewoo K1 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Daewoo K1A1, K2, Max 1, Max 2, AR-100, AR 110C, MAXI-II and KC-20.

71. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Demro TAC-1M carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Demro XF-7 Wasp Carbine.

72. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Eagle Apache Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

73. The firearm of the design commonly known as the FN-FNC rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the FNC Auto Rifle, FNC Auto Paratrooper, FNC-11, FNC-22 and FNC-33.

74. The firearm of the design commonly known as the FN-FAL (FN-LAR) rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the FN 308 Model 44, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Competition Auto, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Heavy Barrel 308 Match, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Paratrooper 308 Match 50-64 and FN 308 Model 50-63.

75. The firearm of the design commonly known as the G3 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Heckler and Koch

(a) HK 91;

(b) HK 91A2;

(c) HK 91A3;

(d) HK G3 A3;

(e) HK G3 A3 ZF;

(f) HK G3 A4;

(g) HK G3 SG/1; and

(h) HK PSG1.

76. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Galil assault rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the AP-84, Galil ARM, Galil AR, Galil SAR, Galil 332 and Mitchell Galil/22 Auto Rifle.

77. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Goncz High-Tech Carbine, and any variant or modified version of it.

78. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Heckler and Koch HK 33 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the

(a) HK 33A2;

(b) HK 33A3;

(c) HK 33KA1;

(d) HK 93;

(e) HK 93A2; and

(f) HK 93A3.

79. The firearm of the design commonly known as the J & R Eng M-68 carbine, and any variant or modified version of it, including the PJK M-68 and the Wilkinson Terry carbine.

80. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Leader Mark Series Auto Rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

81. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the MP5 submachine gun and MP5 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Heckler and Koch

(a) HK MP5;

(b) HK MP5A2;

(c) HK MP5A3;

(d) HK MP5K;

(e) HK MP5SD;

(f) HK MP5SD1;

(g) HK MP5SD2;

(h) HK MP5SD3;

(i) HK 94;

(j) HK 94A2; and

(k) HK 94A3.

82. The firearm of the design commonly known as the PE57 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

83. The firearms of the designs commonly known as the SG-550 rifle and SG-551 carbine, and any variants or modified versions of them.

84. The firearm of the design commonly known as the SIG AMT rifle, and any variant or modified version of it.

85. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Springfield Armory SAR-48 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it, including the SAR-48 Bush, SAR-48 Heavy Barrel, SAR-48 Para and SAR-48 Model 22.

86. The firearm of the design commonly known as the Thompson submachine gun, and any variant or modified version of it, including the

(a) Thompson Model 1921;

(b) Thompson Model 1927;

(c) Thompson Model 1928;

(d) Thompson Model M1;

(e) Auto-Ordnance M27A-1;

(f) Auto-Ordnance M27A-1 Deluxe;

(g) Auto-Ordnance M1927A-3;

(h) Auto-Ordnance M1927A-5;

(i) Auto-Ordnance Thompson M1;

(j) Commando Arms Mk I;

(k) Commando Arms Mk II;

(l) Commando Arms Mk III;

(m) Commando Arms Mk 9; and

(n) Commando Arms Mk 45.

[Peckerwood]

Now here is where the story takes a funny turn. Do you know where the list for prohibiting these guns originally came from? From a single caucus meeting behind closed doors where Party members perused Gun Magazines bought off the shelf at a nearby bookstore and thusly created a list of anything "scary-looking"

This is according to members of the Party who were there at the meeting taking part in it's fulfillment.

:)

They banned guns based on looks. To put such stupidity on par...imagine a group of legislators getting together to reduce speeding infractions by banning any vehicles that "look sporty" or "rice rockety"

Edited to Add:

Of the guns shown in the lists above...all of them are semiautomatic only...banned by name and none are selective fire. Selective fire guns were banned in legislation about 20 years prior to the SOR 98 462

[kuqdew]

But it's cheaper to target shoot with a pellet gun anyways.

Do US clubs allow canadians to rent a gun and start shooting?

[Peckerwood]

But it's cheaper to target shoot with a pellet gun anyways.
Try hitting targets out to 1000 yards accurately with a pellet gun.

Do US clubs allow canadians to rent a gun and start shooting?
Yes

[tritium4ever]

You forget one.

You can work for the good guys and have a prohibited firearm. ;)

Only if the job actually requires a prohibited firearm. In the vast majority of law enforcement positions, you are only going to carry restricted pistols or rifles at best. Prohibited weapons like MP5 (which, by the way, is prohibited both by name and by virtue of being full auto) are typically only carried by elite SWAT-type units.

sort of.... But there a guidelines.


restricted
---------
-all hand guns
-all AR variants
-shotguns and rifles with overall length less then 26 inches


non-restricted
--------------
all shotguns and rifles with the overall length over 26 inches

prohibited
----------
handguns with barrel under 106mm
select fire, and auto fire anything.


Correct me if im wrong. I've been out of the shooting sport scene for about 2 years now...

Not exactly wrong, but there are a couple things you forgot to mention. Some handguns are prohibited because they use the .25 ACP or .32 ACP calibres (exceptions exist!). Many rifles over 26 inches are restricted or prohibited (the previously-mentioned AR-15 and AK-47 being respective examples), though the reason for such classifications is usually completely arbitrary.

Anyone trying to make sense out of firearms classifications and the justifications for them will be baffled to no end.

But as for pure definitions of actual firearms...I refuse to attempt to garner any sense through the Canadian system by adhering to it's inaccuracies; as the Canadian system is so rife with flaws and errors as to be utterly incoherent in it's application of the Law despite it's arbitrary nature.

The definition of Assault Rifle is not determined by the Canadian Legal System, but is rather an accepted definition offered by the Military institutions of the world. The definition that I presented was the accepted definition offered by both the US and Canadian Armed Forces(including the very same definition adopted through NATO)

Exactly...and there is a distinct difference in definitions between the legal system of Canada gun laws...and the adopted definitions fused forth through the relevant gun industries and the Military institutions of the world.

That being that one group understands implicitly the firearms and their natures and operating mechanisms...and the other not knowing a damned thing about them except what they see in magazines and read about in literature predominantly biased as antigun in nature.

And I totally agree with you. The classification system used in Canada is based not on common characteristics or "deadliness" (if you can even define such a term...all firearms are deadly if used in the wrong hands), but based on arbitrary declarations and assumptions/misconceptions created and fuelled by improper media coverage. There is no underlying order or logic to the system.

Except for the Valmet Hunter, the Valmet Hunter Auto and the Valmet M78...which are all AK variants and can actually take AK parts...make any sense yet? :)

This is yet another great example of how stupid our gun laws are. I can provide two more. Ever seen a Czech-made VZ-58S? To everyone but gun enthusiasts in the know, this gun looks almost exactly the same as an AK-47. It has the same outline. It fires the same round and carries the same number of rounds as an AK-47. Yet it is an unrestricted rifle, meaning this rifle can be purchased by anybody with a gun licence and can be fired on public property (note: only on federal "crown" land, and only in municipalities in which it is legal to discharge a firearm). The AK-47, on the other hand, is prohibited? Why? Simply because it has a media reputation as being a "terrorist" weapon.

My other example has to do with magazine capacities. In Canada, the general rule is that handguns are limited to 10 rounds while rifles are limited to 5 (rimfire rifles, most commonly in the .22LR cartridge, have no magazine capacity limits). The whole idea behind capacity limits is this shady notion where pistol cartridges are more powerful than rimfire rifle cartrides, so you should not carry as many of those at a time. Then you have most other rifle cartridges, which are even more powerful than most handgun cartridges, so you should carry even fewer of those. Yet there exists a "loophole" whereby AR-15 rifle owners can legally acquire and use 10-round magazines. So apparently it is okay to use 10 rounds in an AR-15, whereas if a cop caught you using 6 rounds in something like an unrestricted VZ-58S you'd be going to jail. To add further confusion, even more exceptions apply (M1 Garands are allowed to use their 8-round clips). Then you have the .22LR rimfire rifles, which can legally be loaded up with 100 rounds (note: the person in Finland who killed 8 people before turning his gun on himself back in November 2007 used a .22LR rifle, usually considered the least dangerous round).

I could go on and on, but I'm already rambling as it is.

[Peckerwood]

based on arbitrary declarations and assumptions/misconceptions created and fuelled by improper media coverage. There is no underlying order or logic to the system.
Consider also the affect that the US legal system has on the Canadian Law makers. When the Democrats were in power under Clinton they created the AWB(Assault Weapons Ban) which by it's name would make one assume that they were banning Assault rifles, submachine guns, and other selectifire baby-killing devices.

But in actuality, what the people didn't know was that selective fire guns were already controlled under the NFA(National Firearms Act) of 1934.

Upon further inspection of the Assault Weapons Ban, one begins to realize that the ban actually had nothing to do with the function or operation of the gun's internal components(ie the difference between a semiauto and selectfire gun) but rather it banned cosmetic features.

Taken from wiki:

"Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

* Large capacity ammunition magazines
* Folding or telescoping stock
* Conspicuous pistol grip
* Bayonet mount
* Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
* Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

* Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
* Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
* Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
* Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
* A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

* Folding or telescoping stock
* Pistol grip
* Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
* Detachable magazine"

The amusing part about the law was that it only actually banned the manufacture of NEW firearms that fell under the classification of an "Assault Weapon". One could still go out and buy 30 round mags that were made before the ban...or a rifle that had the afore mentioned "evil" cosmetic features, but that it was manufactured or assembled as such before the ban. Hence the term PRE-BAN guns

During the entire time period that the AWB was in effect, the crime rates involving such guns with said features was unaffected and unchanged.

Now the reason that this has relevance in Canada is that our Liberal government also tabled similar legislation but not exactly in the same name or scope as the US bill. Instead our government added more guns to the already present SOR 98 462...and then banned the sale or purchase as well as present ownership of all pistol magazines over 10 rounds, rifle magazines meant for centrefire semiautos over 5 rounds etc.

Manual operated firearms magazine capacities were unaffected...and rimfire guns (semiauto or otherwise) were also exempt.
My other example has to do with magazine capacities. In Canada, the general rule is that handguns are limited to 10 rounds while rifles are limited to 5 (rimfire rifles, most commonly in the .22LR cartridge, have no magazine capacity limits). The whole idea behind capacity limits is this shady notion where pistol cartridges are more powerful than rimfire rifle cartrides, so you should not carry as many of those at a time. Then you have most other rifle cartridges, which are even more powerful than most handgun cartridges, so you should carry even fewer of those. Yet there exists a "loophole" whereby AR-15 rifle owners can legally acquire and use 10-round magazines. So apparently it is okay to use 10 rounds in an AR-15, whereas if a cop caught you using 6 rounds in something like an unrestricted VZ-58S you'd be going to jail. To add further confusion, even more exceptions apply (M1 Garands are allowed to use their 8-round clips). Then you have the .22LR rimfire rifles, which can legally be loaded up with 100 rounds (note: the person in Finland who killed 8 people before turning his gun on himself back in November 2007 used a .22LR rifle, usually considered the least dangerous round).
The loophole for the AR15 mags that can carry 10 rounds is that the law's wording says "that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in:...."

So basically the wording is the loophole. So long as the magazine was intended for use in a "pistol"...and the AR15 model in question that has only a pistol grip and no stock is classified by the RCMP FFD then it can take a 10 round mag. except for one problem...this mag can obviously also fit in any other AR15 without modification.

Now to add as a point...here is a pic of the Ubiquitous Evil Baby-Killing AK47:

http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/amd65ak47.JPG

And here is a pic of the Czech Sa VZ58

http://www.vojsko.net/photo/zbrane/samopaly/sa58_03.jpg

Both use the same caliber...both use detachable 30 rd capacity magazines...both are originally designed as selective fire assault rifles.

Hmmmm

Now here is where it gets amusing...the VZ58's that are imported are actually not originally semiautomatic only...they are converted Automatics which are prohibited...but because the conversion was done by the factory before sale to the public or importation through a third party...they are somehow legal.

Confused yet?

Welcome to the world of Canadian Gun Legislation.

ETA: One point I forgot to add was about magazines...If you were to have in your possession a 30 rd AR15 magazine you could clearly get into some trouble with the Law...so the magazine has to be pinned to 5 rounds.

Buuuuuuut

Take the magazine apart into it's separate components and it is now no longer a magazine according to the law. You can actually buy and sell "mag kits" that have all of the components to the magazine separated but unaltered from their original state...and that is completely LEGAL.

Fun fun fun.

[Peckerwood]

Here is a little game for pfbmgd and other members.

Guess which one of the following rifles is classified as prohibited in Canada:

Number 1:
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle1.jpg

Number 2
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle2.gif

Number 3
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle3.jpg

For some of you this should be a breeze.

[pfbmgd]

Here is a little game for pfbmgd and other members.

Guess which one of the following rifles is classified as prohibited in Canada:

Number 1:
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle1.jpg

Number 2
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle2.gif

Number 3
http://usera.imagecave.com/peckerwood/rifle3.jpg

For some of you this should be a breeze.


The first is a Tavor and is restricted .The second is a Styer Aug is prhibited .The third I`m at a loss as to what it is or what make . But I imagine by it being a bullpup it`s a prohibited rifle.

I think you missed my sarcasm in prvious posts .I know a little more about firearms then I posted .Having a permit for both 12.6 and restricted .

[Peckerwood]

The first is a Tavor and is restricted .The second is a Styer Aug is prhibited .The third I`m at a loss as to what it is or what make . But I imagine by it being a bullpup it`s a prohibited rifle.

I think you missed my sarcasm in prvious posts .I know a little more about firearms then I posted .Having a permit for both 12.6 and restricted .
Firstly yes...it is a Tavor...second you are incorrect...it is non-restricted

Steyr AUG is prohib yes

Last one is the FN FS2000 and is also non-restricted

And I can't believe that I would have to reiterate this to someone with a 12(x)...Bullpup rifles are NOT prohibited...Bullpup stocks are prohib.

As for sarcasm...must have smilies...law of Teh Internets :)

[pfbmgd]

Firstly yes...it is a Tavor...second you are incorrect...it is non-restricted

Steyr AUG is prohib yes

Last one is the FN FS2000 and is also non-restricted

And I can't believe that I would have to reiterate this to someone with a 12(x)...Bullpup rifles are NOT prohibited...Bullpup stocks are prohib.

As for sarcasm...must have smilies...law of Teh Internets :)

You got me .I haven`t kept up with all the bull .

What gun below is a 12.6 ? The G-19 or the P7M13 ?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/pfbmgd/P7M13001.jpg

[Peckerwood]

You got me .I haven`t kept up with all the bull .

What gun below is a 12.6 ? The G-19 or the P7M13 ?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/pfbmgd/P7M13001.jpg
S'ok...I know a bunch of gun owners that still can't tell the diff...so you aren't alone in that.

As for the bull...I am still mired in it :|

As for the guns, the prohibited device is the barrel...despite the fact that the entire gun is reg'd as a prohib status, a changeover of the barrel can get it declassified into restricted status.

That Glock with the shorter barrel is a prohib...the P7 has a 105mm barrel and is restricted

[Peckerwood]

Actually my favorite example of ridiculous pistol regulations is exactly in the barrel length requirements. Consider that the whole reason for the barrel length prohibitions was about prohibiting small pocket sized pistols.

The 1911A1 has a 5 inch barrel...while the Bergmann Bayard 1910/21 has a 102mm barrel length...but which gun is bigger overall? If the rules were set up to eliminate pocket sized pistols then it would stand to reason that the Bergmann would be a much smaller gun then right?

Wrong.

The Bergmann Bayard 1910/21 is on the bottom left. It is 254 mm long(10 inches)...and weighs just over a kilogram unloaded. Prohib status

The 1911 is on the bottom right. It is 219 mm long(8.62 inches) and weighs just over a kilogram unloaded. Restricted Status.

(Also...the P7M13 is 175mm long(6.9 inches) and weighs about 850 grams...Restricted status)

http://www.atiradoresecolecionadores.com/galeria/cinco.jpg

Go figure eh? :|

[UrbanPoet]

You got me .I haven`t kept up with all the bull .

What gun below is a 12.6 ? The G-19 or the P7M13 ?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/pfbmgd/P7M13001.jpg

omg... the P7. I love that.
such a smooth shooter. for a small little 9mm the kick is so manageable. I find the egronomics perfect for my stature

[satcom]

I just got my non-restricted PAL.

[Spray]

You could try The shooting edge new range in Gormley (new market/aurora) area.

I shoot at Burlington range and rifle association.

[Shojin]

Are there any ranges that allow you to store your firearms at the range as opposed to securing it at your house (and avoiding all the hoopla involved in properly doing so)?

[Spray]

What hoopla is there in storing firearms?
And no I'm not aware of any ranges that could store the firearms, unless perhaps it was in THEIR name and not your own.

Are there any ranges that allow you to store your firearms at the range as opposed to securing it at your house (and avoiding all the hoopla involved in properly doing so)?

[computer01]

restricted
---------
-all hand guns
-all AR variants
-shotguns and rifles with overall length less then 26 inches

non-restricted
--------------
all shotguns and rifles with the overall length over 26 inches

prohibited
----------
handguns with barrel under 106mm
select fire, and auto fire anything.

Correct me if im wrong. I've been out of the shooting sport scene for about 2 years now...

Just when you think you've got it all figured out. You're not going to believe this, or knowing Canadian laws you will believe it but will shake your head, any pump action shotgun is non-restricted regardless of the length AS LONG AS it came that way from the manufacturer.

In the US, you cannot own a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 16". (You may be able to but you'd need special permits etc.) In Canada, any non-restricted PAL will get you one of these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/unopistoleros/P1020005.jpg

Dlask SMD12 8.5" 12ga pump-action shotgun. Holds two in the mag and one chambered. It is non-restricted and you can therefore carry one of these as a wilderness defense gun. I would NOT recommend shooting a 3" magnum slug from this baby using only one hand.

So yeah, go figure. Our firearms laws make little sense. Most of them are knee-jerk reactions devised by people who know little to nothing about firearms to begin with.

Myself, I'd be far more worried about one crazy with a Lee Enfield No. 4 than all the licensed handgun owners in the country.

[ricoboxing]

Just when you think you've got it all figured out. You're not going to believe this, or knowing Canadian laws you will believe it but will shake your head, any pump action shotgun is non-restricted regardless of the length AS LONG AS it came that way from the manufacturer.

In the US, you cannot own a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 16". (You may be able to but you'd need special permits etc.) In Canada, any non-restricted PAL will get you one of these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/unopistoleros/P1020005.jpg

Dlask SMD12 8.5" 12ga pump-action shotgun. Holds two in the mag and one chambered. It is non-restricted and you can therefore carry one of these as a wilderness defense gun. I would NOT recommend shooting a 3" magnum slug from this baby using only one hand.

So yeah, go figure. Our firearms laws make little sense. Most of them are knee-jerk reactions devised by people who know little to nothing about firearms to begin with.

Myself, I'd be far more worried about one crazy with a Lee Enfield No. 4 than all the licensed handgun owners in the country.
where could i get one of those? i doubt basspro or lebarons would carry something like that. sir mailorder?

[computer01]

where could i get one of those? i doubt basspro or lebarons would carry something like that. sir mailorder?

http://www.dlaskarms.com/
$848 CDN

[Shojin]

What hoopla is there in storing firearms?
And no I'm not aware of any ranges that could store the firearms, unless perhaps it was in THEIR name and not your own.

Securing a proper firearm cabinet, bolting it securely, locking it appropriately so it cannot be broken into. I've heard many stories of gun owners being charged with improper storage if a thief manages to break open locked cabinets. I read one story where a gun owner was away for a week and thieves took 3 days to cut open his concrete reinforced gun safe. He was still charged with improper storage.

[UrbanPoet]

http://www.dlaskarms.com/
$848 CDN

omg! I want this. Good bear protection for the next time im up north.
Seems a lot easier to back pack then my mossy 88.
That'd be a lot better with a foldable stock though... 12gage and pistol grips are a wrist breaker for me =\

[UrbanPoet]

Securing a proper firearm cabinet, bolting it securely, locking it appropriately so it cannot be broken into. I've heard many stories of gun owners being charged with improper storage if a thief manages to break open locked cabinets. I read one story where a gun owner was away for a week and thieves took 3 days to cut open his concrete reinforced gun safe. He was still charged with improper storage.

yep... he was put away to jail for 3 years for improper storage.
Mean while the theifs got off on probation after they did an armed robbery, and assault on 3 babies and a old lady.

[Peckerwood]

I wonder how hard it would be to convert that Dlask model to fire the Aguila short shells?

Of course the loss in terminal energy may not be enough in turn for bear protection.

[Peckerwood]

As for "safe storage"...there really isn't anything in the Firearms Act that details specifically what is "safe" when it comes to storage. the words used and the meanings are not specifically defined in a physical context anywhere in the Act or in the Criminal Code.

As a point, Canadian Tire sells gun lockers that are basically composed of sheet metal riveted and screwed together at home by the gun owner etc. These are commonly used by gun owners. The steel walls are about 3/32" thick and can be pried open with a crowbar.

The safe that was broken into by those thieves in the above story...was close to a foot thick of solid steel. The thieves took three solid days of work to cut through the door using welding torches.

And the owner still got convicted of "Unsafe Storage"

Welcome to CanaDUH :|

[tritium4ever]

My theory on safe storage is that a safe you can't find is a safe you can't break into. Like previous posters have said, given enough determination a burglar can break into pretty much anything. Don't make it well-known around your neighbourhood that you have guns, don't leave your reciepts around, hide your safe somewhere a robber likely won't look (if possible), and that's about as much as you can do. If the cops want to bust you, they will find an excuse to do so. Just use some common sense and you should generally be fine.

[computer01]

And the owner still got convicted of "Unsafe Storage"


There was more to that story than met the eye. Mike Hargreaves consulted for the Toronto police in the past and there was supposedly some bad blood there. It doesn't make it right - in my opinion someone should be losing their job over that decision - but here we are.

[pfbmgd]

yep... he was put away to jail for 3 years for improper storage.
Mean while the theifs got off on probation after they did an armed robbery, and assault on 3 babies and a old lady.

I don`t recall this ending to the story .I recall Mike Hardgraves taking off to Florida when the Metro wanted to inverview him .I think there is still a warrant out for his arrest for unsafe storage .

[Shojin]

My theory on safe storage is that a safe you can't find is a safe you can't break into. Like previous posters have said, given enough determination a burglar can break into pretty much anything. Don't make it well-known around your neighbourhood that you have guns, don't leave your reciepts around, hide your safe somewhere a robber likely won't look (if possible), and that's about as much as you can do. If the cops want to bust you, they will find an excuse to do so. Just use some common sense and you should generally be fine.

True, but it doesn't help if you're dealing with organized criminals that may somehow have access to the gun registry. It's like a shopping list! Need a gun, let's see who's got what we want and go jack them. If they can't find the safe, they'll just wait till you or your family come home to 'ask' where it is. And they say the registry is meant to help reduce gun crime. What irony.

[rangermcfadden]

Do US clubs allow canadians to rent a gun and start shooting?

Note that non-immigrant aliens require a valid hunting license from any U.S. state to possess any firearms (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/form6updatesfaqs.htm) and that non citizens may not possess firearms at all in the state of Washington (http://www.vrolyk.org/guns/alien-laws.html).

[Alvito]

I do plan on getting the permit, but before I do I would like to shoot at least once to see what its like.

watch superbad, fogal's reaction is priceless.

oh **** dude, we need to talk sometime. remember sharons party? some random chick called me, you didnt give her my number did you? :mad:

why does it have to be in the city? drive up north, go hunting or something.

[YnD]

Jane and Finch.

[Peckerwood]

Jane and Finch.
Too lazy to read the whole thread?

Someone beat you to it already:
jane finch and malvern are good choices, but i think you might recieve return fire.

[Alvito]

omg! I want this. Good bear protection for the next time im up north.
Seems a lot easier to back pack then my mossy 88.
That'd be a lot better with a foldable stock though... 12gage and pistol grips are a wrist breaker for me =\

i hope you're not like south park... OH NOES HES COMING RIGHT FOR US

BOOM!!!:!: :!: