Need advice on planning 1st ever European vacation

[gpaint]

Hi all! Well, the topic says it all. My wife and I, along with our 19-year old daughter are planning our first ever trip to Europe. We would like to take in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Monaco, Venice and Rome.

Here is what we need help on for planning our vacation:
1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?
2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into.
3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?
4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?
5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

Those are enough questions for now. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[sexpuppet6000]

1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?

-yes the off season; spring is nice but fall is better.

2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into.

-depends

3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?

-some perfer flying, both have their advantages. check out skyscanner.net

4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?

-you listed 7 cities and said that you have 14 days. that is only 2 days per city without calculating travel time. dude that is no vacation man, all hussle. for a family vacation id cut half those cities out.

5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

-no clue.

[industry_killer]

14 days is not enough unless you are taking one of those escorted bus tours that can whirlwind you through Europe. No doubt you could find one with all the cities you have listed, otherwise like poster stated before cut your cities in at least half.

[Pete_Coach]

14 days is by far too short for all those cities. You need to include your packing time, check out time, to and from trains/airports and travel time as time wasted.
If I was to plan this trip, I wold fly into one city and fly home from the other end. Begin in London and fly home from Rome or vice versa or any other combination.
Plan for what you want to see the most (particularly if you will never be back) and stay long enough to see enough of it. 3 days in each place is as short as you should go IMO.
One of the best resources and information sites is www.tripadvisor.ca. I have used it extensively and always with success, from getting hotel info to info about booking attractions and trains. It has a fantastic forum as well and you can get so much info that the folks there will almost plan the trip for you :lol:

[ShopperfiendTO]

1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?

-yes the off season; spring is nice but fall is better.

2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into.

-depends

3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?

-some perfer flying, both have their advantages. check out skyscanner.net

4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?

-you listed 7 cities and said that you have 14 days. that is only 2 days per city without calculating travel time. dude that is no vacation man, all hussle. for a family vacation id cut half those cities out.

5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

-no clue.

1. I agree, fall is better than spring. Avoid summer because you will be fighting European vacationers (and their kids) as well; also it's *hot* in the summer there (except maybe London).

2. If you're starting or ending in London, I'd recommend Heathrow. I would not recommend Heathrow as a connecting airport. Connecting in Heathrow (too many security line-ups), DeGaulle (unexpected strikes), or flying with Alitalia (strikes) or Air France (don't know how to fly their planes) is not recommended unless there is no other similarly-priced option available.

3. Rail is generally excellent in Europe (pricing, efficiency, frequency), and some of the train stations are *wicked*. Eurail is great for having confirmed plans (and reserved seats), but can be pricey for that comfort. Some of the trains are bullet trains and could save you time and hassle compared to plane-hopping in the boonies.

4. Unless you are on an escorted tour that has absolutely *everything* planned, I agree with everyone else that it's definitely not enough time. Push comes to shove, and you can't take an extra week or two, I'd split the trip to two, this initial leg being London, Paris, Madrid and Barcelona (Most-Western Europe). The next time around, complete Rome, Monaco, Venice (plus Florence, Vienna/Prague?).

5. I agree that Tripadvisor is a great starting point when travelling to more popular cities. Hotels in Europe are generally expensive (be careful of per room or per person rates), so watch out!

Also, just so you know, Europe is expensive (especially London and Paris), and tipping in Europe is generally rounding up to the next Euro or so. Most of the prices you see on a restaurant menu are tax-inclusive. Unless the service is exceptionally good, there is no need to tip 15% as is the normal custom here or USA.

Another FYI, you would be hard-pressed to find cheaper electronics in Europe than in North America (i.e., buy your camera here before you leave for the trip). ;)

[Talamasca]

Hi all! Well, the topic says it all. My wife and I, along with our 19-year old daughter are planning our first ever trip to Europe. We would like to take in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Monaco, Venice and Rome.

Here is what we need help on for planning our vacation:
1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?
2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into.
3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?
4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?
5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

Those are enough questions for now. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

1. Spring or fall are both nice. Avoid summer if you can.

2. London ftw. It's generally the cheapest city to fly to and a ton of budget flights have London as one of their hubs.

3. Most of the cities on your itinerary are pretty far apart, making flights an option. Check out http://www.skyscanner.net for schedules and prices. Travelling within a country (Barcelona-Madrid or Venice-Rome) can be done easily and quickly on a normal ticket on a train (no Eurail pass).

4. 7 cities in 14 days? Absolutely no way, especially since it's your first trip. London-Paris-Barcelona-Madrid is one possible itinerary or London-Paris-Venice-Rome. The Big Three (London, Paris, Rome) deserve at least 3-4 days each while the others can be done in 2 (Venice in 1 day if you hustle). I'd cut out Monaco altogether since there isn't much to do there. Try to fly back from your last city to avoid backtracking.

5. Travel guides, TripAdvisor, Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree message boards are all good places to research. Aim to stay in the city centre. It's generally not worth it to sleep in the outer parts of the city as all the major action and sights are usually in the centre.

Read up on the things that interest you (museums, shopping, botanical gardens, castles/palaces, etc.) so you can plan a rough itinerary. Have a great trip! Other than Spain, where English is not commonly spoken, you shouldn't have any major language barrier issues.

[Bazooka Joe]

Hi all! Well, the topic says it all. My wife and I, along with our 19-year old daughter are planning our first ever trip to Europe. We would like to take in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Monaco, Venice and Rome.

Here is what we need help on for planning our vacation:
1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?

As mentioned, early fall is nice

2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into.

"Best" is subjective, but Heathrow would be the best choice out of the cities mentioned just because you'll find lots of cheap flights to other cities - see answer #3. Amsterdam would be another excellent choice, as it's a very busy airport (and IMO easier to get around in)

3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?

Definitely not for only 2 weeks. Book cheap flights on the discount carriers and not only will you save money (Eurail is more expensive than you think) you'll get there way faster.

4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?

I agree with everyone else, definitely not.

5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

Those are enough questions for now. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

No idea on this one, sorry.

As a general comment, I'd recommend making the trip a London-Paris-Rome(tuscany)-Venice trip. Out of the cities mentioned, I think these would hold the most attractions for you guys. You could easily spend 2 weeks in any of those cities alone (except Venice).

[gpaint]

Hi guys!

Thank you so much for all the great advice!

I'm leaning towards a London-Paris-Venice-Rome trip within a 2-week span. Unfortunately, because of my daughter's university schooling and other family obligations, that's the maximum amount of days we can be away.

So here are more questions:

1. Are hotel bookings pretty much like they are in North America; I'm referring to cancellations and changes in booking dates, etc.

2. I never thought about flying, but here are my thoughts right now. I would like your comments on whether I am assuming correctly. Obviously, flying into London (probably Heathrow) would be a no-brainer. Then, I'm thinking maybe of taking the bullet-train to Paris. After Paris, I'm thinking of flying into Venice. At this point, I don't know whether it's more economical to go by train to Rome, or are there a lot of discount flights to Rome? Then for the last leg, take a flight out of Rome to return to Canada.

3. My wife and daughter don't particularly like the heat, so when does the Fall season start in Europe? What clothing is best around that time?

Again, thanks in advance for all your advice!!!

[GemInite]

I personally would cut out half the stuff.

e.g. to London, Paris, Spain.

Or do London, Paris, Italy.

London and Paris are only 2hrs 15mins apart from each other via Eurostar.

Also one thing to consider is to do multi city e.g. fly to Paris, go to wherever else end up in London and fly out from there.

One thing to note is Flights within Europe are dirt cheap.

Go to www.skyscanner.net to look up european prices.

[almostfreeman]

I can't remember the name of the site with suggested travel itineraries posted by members for various destinations that are sortable by length of stay etc. ...( maybe someone else knows the name of this site)?

[ShopperfiendTO]

So here are more questions:

1. Are hotel bookings pretty much like they are in North America; I'm referring to cancellations and changes in booking dates, etc.

2. I never thought about flying, but here are my thoughts right now. I would like your comments on whether I am assuming correctly. Obviously, flying into London (probably Heathrow) would be a no-brainer. Then, I'm thinking maybe of taking the bullet-train to Paris. After Paris, I'm thinking of flying into Venice. At this point, I don't know whether it's more economical to go by train to Rome, or are there a lot of discount flights to Rome? Then for the last leg, take a flight out of Rome to return to Canada.

3. My wife and daughter don't particularly like the heat, so when does the Fall season start in Europe? What clothing is best around that time?



1. Depends on where you book. If it's the smaller hotels, sometimes they take reservations and your credit card number by phone but require you to pay in cash at the end of your stay. If you haven't thought of it, I'd recommend some good quality B&Bs in between to avoid the sterile hotel environment for the two weeks you'll be travelling. There are cancellation fees that may be applied. Depends on the hotel.

You should also factor in breakfasts since many hotels (and B&Bs) include a (continental) breakfast in their rates since they can save $$$ while travelling (unless all of you like coffee and a croissant and nothing else for breakfast, in which case a la carte may be cheaper).

Also, if your daughter is going to be staying in her own room, the incremental cost of accomodation for another person to make it a foursome isn't very high (does she want to bring a friend whom you like and who could pay for her own transportation and meals?).

2. Air may be dirt cheap (and Eurail can be pricey when compared to discount airlines), but you should consider the travel time to get to and from the airports since this will eat into your "touring" time. Most train stations are located in or near the downtown areas of the metropolises.

Coming home, I know that Air Canada has direct flights from Rome to Toronto, so it's probably a good idea to end in Rome (so only one stop-over, and it's in Canada). It's also great to avoid Heathrow's line-ups as a connecting hub.

3. Fall usually starts after the middle of September, and is warm-to-hot (up to 28C but closer to low 20s) during the day and can get cool at night. In travelling in both Spring and Fall in Europe, I've found that I've packed too warmly. I'd pack for a warm spring day (or a cool summer day). If you're travelling in mid-to-late October onward, I'd pack more warmly of course (bring a wool sweater or two and ditch the shorts and sandals).

Also be careful about clothing in Italy... if you plan on visiting sites of a religious nature, they generally won't let you in with shorts or bare shoulders, no matter the temperature (i.e., pack at least a pair of slacks and a light coat - you can always buy more clothes there if needed).

[cko64]

Since it's your first time to Europe and you only have two weeks, maybe you should consider joining a tour? Personally, I hate tours, but I know a lot of people love the hassle-free way of travelling. I did joint a tour to Europe not because of convenience, but because it is cheaper than to do it on my own. In Europe, train, transfers, hotels can be quite expensive.

The tour company I booked with is call www.affordabletours.com, and I booked the Land Tour only since I also fly free to Rome and return from London.

The advantages of booking through this company are:
- 10% off listed price
- No GST or PST if booking Land Only
- US listed price is generally lower than Canadian listed price.

I figure I saved $1,000 per person booking with this company vs booking from a Canadian company.

[gpaint]

Since it's your first time to Europe and you only have two weeks, maybe you should consider joining a tour? Personally, I hate tours, but I know a lot of people love the hassle-free way of travelling. I did joint a tour to Europe not because of convenience, but because it is cheaper than to do it on my own. In Europe, train, transfers, hotels can be quite expensive.

The tour company I booked with is call www.affordabletours.com, and I booked the Land Tour only since I also fly free to Rome and return from London.

The advantages of booking through this company are:
- 10% off listed price
- No GST or PST if booking Land Only
- US listed price is generally lower than Canadian listed price.

I figure I saved $1,000 per person booking with this company vs booking from a Canadian company.

This is a great suggestion! It looks like they have a land package that encompasses Rome, Paris & London for 11 days for $1800. This way, we might actually be able to do Spain if we fly to Madrid from London (after the land tour ends), on hopefully a cheap flight via skyscanner.net since we have relatives we can stay with, and then fly home from there!

Just my initial reaction to your post; but like many have suggested, it might actually be too hectic, we'll see, but thanks!

[Deals Deals Deals]

I can't remember the name of the site with suggested travel itineraries posted by members for various destinations that are sortable by length of stay etc. ...( maybe someone else knows the name of this site)?

Yahoo has something like that.

[Talamasca]

Hi guys!

Thank you so much for all the great advice!

I'm leaning towards a London-Paris-Venice-Rome trip within a 2-week span. Unfortunately, because of my daughter's university schooling and other family obligations, that's the maximum amount of days we can be away.

So here are more questions:

1. Are hotel bookings pretty much like they are in North America; I'm referring to cancellations and changes in booking dates, etc.

2. I never thought about flying, but here are my thoughts right now. I would like your comments on whether I am assuming correctly. Obviously, flying into London (probably Heathrow) would be a no-brainer. Then, I'm thinking maybe of taking the bullet-train to Paris. After Paris, I'm thinking of flying into Venice. At this point, I don't know whether it's more economical to go by train to Rome, or are there a lot of discount flights to Rome? Then for the last leg, take a flight out of Rome to return to Canada.

3. My wife and daughter don't particularly like the heat, so when does the Fall season start in Europe? What clothing is best around that time?

Again, thanks in advance for all your advice!!!

1. More or less. There are a lot more family-run and one & two star hotels though. Shared bathrooms are common in cheaper hotels. Some of the smaller places may ask for a deposit via money order/credit card.

2. I'm pretty sure Paris-Venice can be done by overnight train (I've done Venice-Paris overnight), so you'll save money and time by doing that. Venice-Rome by train is about 4.5 hours or 1 hour by plane. Of course, the plane will require travel to & from the airports and being at the airport a couple hours early. I'd say take the Eurostar Italia train as it's more comfortable and you'll get to see some fantastic scenery along the way as you travel through Tuscany, one of the most beautiful regions in all Europe. Fly home from Rome.

3. Fall in Europe is generally a bit warmer than in Toronto. London can be cool but the other cities are still generally in the 20-25 degree range even in early October. Southern Spain can even be around 30C. Generally, Europeans don't wear shorts when they're out and about in the city. Try to stay away from sleeveless shirts and shorts as most churches won't let you enter if you're wearing those.

[perfectg]

from my many european trips, the last one was 3 months ago
1. Is there anything like a better time (off-season) to travel in Europe?
I find that fall is the best time, but of course the day after boxing day has some cheap flights
2. We have enough travel points (RBC Avion) to take care of our round-trip air. Which city is the best to fly into. You will almost always fly into London first. Any flights from there to the rest of Europe will be dirt cheap.
3. Is Eurail the best way to get around to all the cities we've mentioned?
You mean eurorail. It is one of the best and fastest ways around the cities you mentioned.
4. We plan to do the entire trip in 14 days. Is this enough for sightseeing?
no, you would be pushing it seeing that much stuff, you will loose a day just in jetlag. We did london and paris over 10 days and it was too much to do and see in such a short time frame.
5. How do we go about finding decent hotels to stay in each city? How do we book in advance?

Travelocity, or talk to your local travel agent, I like to use oceanbreezeholidays.com for my stuff

[frankie64]

I've only visited europe recently when cruising but having stayed in a few of these places, pre-cruise, for a few days, I would definitely say it's too much to see in such a short time span. I spent 3 days in both Barcelona and Venice and didn't see all the sights. By cruising and doing private excursions I was able to see the highlights of Rome in a day but it definitely wasn't leisurely. There's not really a lot to see in Monaco and unless there's a really, really good reason that you want to visit there, I would consider missing it and spending more time in one of the other cities.

Definitely suggest travelling in Spring or Fall - I've done Sept/Oct time and the weather has been good - not too hot. However, with all the cruise ships in europe now, you'll still find the cities busy in "off-season".

You can definitely get a lot of cheap flights into europe from London (Heathrow) but you're limited in your luggage capacity. here's some sites
www.euroflights.info
http://whichbudget.com
www.easyjet.com

I would avoid flying in or out of Paris if at all possible as they seem to have a a higher volume of strikes in the airport than most others.


For hotels/accommodations, I've used both Priceline and I've used www.tripadvisor.com for recommendations then booked directly with the hotel. Here's also a forum on land travel in europe www.slowtrav.com

Also, check out this link - there's multi-city vacation packages and if you contact the companies directly, you might be able to get something more customized or combine a couple of them
http://vacations.travelzoo.com/european-vacations

[djjosee]

I just booked my flight for Europe! A 4 weeker from mid-August to Mid-Sept.

I've heard that there are some DIRT CHEAP train tickets during that period due to the fact that nobody is working and therefore not using the trains. Is anybody aware of this? And where would I get more information? I'll be "home-based" in Venice.

[Pete_Coach]

I just booked my flight for Europe! A 4 weeker from mid-August to Mid-Sept.

I've heard that there are some DIRT CHEAP train tickets during that period due to the fact that nobody is working and therefore not using the trains. Is anybody aware of this? And where would I get more information? I'll be "home-based" in Venice.

Boy, did you hear wrong. The reason some (not everybody) are not working is that they are on vacation. All summer long, different countries take their holidays, France is July as is Germany. Guess what, they like to take trains too.
I do know Italy and Italy is on vacation during August, with some cities the first two weeks and others the last two weeks. The cities are empty and many stores in those cities are closed.
Also, there are no bargains from Trenitalia (the Italian trail system http://www.trenitalia.it/en/index.html), although they will not break the bank either. Trenitalia will not allow you to book more than 60 days in advance. If you book with some other agency for trains in Italy further than 60 days in advance, there is no guarantee of the train times or schedules or routes.

[Bullseye]

I can't remember the name of the site with suggested travel itineraries posted by members for various destinations that are sortable by length of stay etc. ...( maybe someone else knows the name of this site)?

VirtualTourist.com ?

[cko64]

For Europe's hotel bookings, try these two websites, I used both before and had no problem with cancellation when necessary,

www.yeego.com
www.venere.com

[brokenteeth]

14 days is such a short time, if you have broad interests you can easily spend an entire week in any of the major Cities you have listed (except Monaco...the French Riveria is tacky IMO).


Visiting in off-season is the only way to go, otherwise you would spend all your time in lines at the tourist sites :lol:
It really depends on your interests, however I highly recommend visiting one or maybe two of the cities only and take the opportunity to soak in the atmosphere and relax a bit and not waste so much time in transit.
I strongly suggest renting a car and exploring outside the city. Car rentals are affordable if you book ahead. The countryside and small towns are in many ways just as spectacular as the cities.
Driving makes it easy to see the out-of-the-way places mentioned in your guidebook. Driving in western Europe is easy, with the exception of some of the large cities, especially in Italy.

However, for the biggest bang I recommend Italy. Compared to other western European countries it culturally the most different from Canada and its historical, cultural sites and scenery are unmatched.

You could spend some time in Rome and then plan a circuit North through spectacular Tuscany (Florence, Sienna, Pisa, Chianti, etc..) and then across to Venice and back.

Note: IMO, Venice is a huge tourist trap and I if you are short of time a visit to Tuscany or Naples/Pompeii would be much more fulfilling and both are within a couple of hours drive of Rome.

[Bazooka Joe]

Boy, did you hear wrong. The reason some (not everybody) are not working is that they are on vacation. All summer long, different countries take their holidays, France is July as is Germany. Guess what, they like to take trains too.
I do know Italy and Italy is on vacation during August, with some cities the first two weeks and others the last two weeks. The cities are empty and many stores in those cities are closed.
Also, there are no bargains from Trenitalia (the Italian trail system http://www.trenitalia.it/en/index.html), although they will not break the bank either. Trenitalia will not allow you to book more than 60 days in advance. If you book with some other agency for trains in Italy further than 60 days in advance, there is no guarantee of the train times or schedules or routes.

:lol: :lol:

When I was there it didn't matter who you booked with, there was no guarantee of train times or schedules on Italian soil. Probably the worst when it comes to punctuality of all the western continental european countries.

[Pete_Coach]

:lol: :lol:

When I was there it didn't matter who you booked with, there was no guarantee of train times or schedules on Italian soil. Probably the worst when it comes to punctuality of all the western continental european countries.

You are quite right about Italian transport. There are also the scheduled strikes and the unexpected strikes as well.
There is another thing, many people are talking about off season. There are some places that that really have no off season per se. Venice and Florence are an example.

[andrewandrewwong]

my 2 favourite boards

www.eurotrek.net/forums/

www.eurotrip.com

the best hostel board used to be at bugeurope.com

[1226]

http://www.sidestep.com/

[NorthYorker]

Speaking about flying, I'd probably fly to London, then travel and then take some budget flight from your last travel point to London (and will leave plenty of time between scheduled arrival of your budget flight to London and departure back to YYZ from there, probably something like 12 hrs). Should be the cheapest option, especially if you buy tickets in advance.

Would I be in your shoes, I'd pick London-Paris-Rome-London itinerary. All connections are served by the budget airlines and you will have more sightseeing that one can safely digest in 14 days, if you have any trace of museum or history buff bone at all. All 3 cities are great starting points for 1-day excursions too, in (unlikely) case you will need more attractions.

[gpaint]

Hi everyone!

Just thoroughly enjoying all your suggestions and comments. Looking more like a London-Paris-Madrid 14-day vacation as my wife wants to visit her cousin in Madrid.

Seeing that we probably will have relatives as tour guides in Madrid, would it be adviseable at all to take tours of sites we want to see in London and Paris? The reason I ask is that we pretty well have places and things we want to see while we are in these two cities. For London we definitely want to see: Buckingham Palace, the London Tower, the London Eye, Big Ben, Westminster Abbey and as many museums that we can cram in. For Paris: The Louvre, Eiffel Tower, the L'Arc de Triomphe, Notre Dame and the Palace at Versailles.

I don't know if it were better to take a bus tour encompassing these sites or whether it is better for us to visit these sites ourselves (on foot or local transit). We're totally clueless as far as how long it would take to buy tickets and line up for each venue. Do bus tours get priority access?

Some tips would be great!

Again, thanks in advance!