Places to go in Europe before it changes?

[omagedon]

Just wondering I never been to Europe before and would like to go there. Which places you recommend to see before it changes? I was thinking more of Eastern Europe since they are changing pretty rapidly.

[b166er1337]

Just wondering I never been to Europe before and would like to go there. Which places you recommend to see before it changes? I was thinking more of Eastern Europe since they are changing pretty rapidly.

I would say Krakow, Poland.

[porphyra]

Czech republic is nice, Prague is a great city. Often overlooked is Budapest in Hungary, which can give Prague a run for its money. Also, I believe Montenegro is very beautiful. Also former republics of the USSR such as Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and Estonia are much more viable for tourists than even 5-10 years ago now. Any of those place would not be a bad bet.

If would like a video guide, try Michael Palin's New Europe. Its a great 7 part documentary on eastern Europe and its changing face (exactly as you mention) [its out there if you look hard enough].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Palin%27s_New_Europe

Of course there are also many many globe trotting communities around that can help you if you are really serious.

Good Luck.

[CanadaSweetheart]

Czech Republic is my first choice.. I was there recently and was shocked by the pristine architecture (since it wasn't decimated in WW2) and it is less expensive than most EU cities. So many cool things to see and easy to get around. Prague has turned into an Eastern European Niagara Falls as far as tourist traps go, but 1.50 CDN for a pint of beer can surely help you out!

I was also in Portugal/Spain recently.. I know it's not Eastern Europe but there was great value for money there, as well.

It all depends on what you're looking for out of your visit.. what are your interests.. there are pluses and minuses to every European city (I've been to just about all of them!)

[djjosee]

I heard Venice is sinking :|

[b166er1337]

Czech Republic is my first choice.. I was there recently and was shocked by the pristine architecture (since it wasn't decimated in WW2) and it is less expensive than most EU cities. So many cool things to see and easy to get around. Prague has turned into an Eastern European Niagara Falls as far as tourist traps go, but 1.50 CDN for a pint of beer can surely help you out!



Prague is the obvious choice. It's beautiful, but also the most touristy place I have been in the entire Europe. It's not cheap anymore (although still cheaper than London, Switzerland, or Paris). Prague, along with Salzburg, are the worst examples of tourist traps. It's just that you get the feeling the entire city is geared toward tourists. If you want to experience the "REAL" Prague, step away from old town and castle quarter. New town gives the authentic feeling of a real city.

Another thumb up for Budapest, I have never been there, but keep hearing great stories about it.

[GangStarr]

Czech republic is nice, Prague is a great city. Often overlooked is Budapest in Hungary, which can give Prague a run for its money. Also, I believe Montenegro is very beautiful. Also former republics of the USSR such as Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and Estonia are much more viable for tourists than even 5-10 years ago now. Any of those place would not be a bad bet.

If would like a video guide, try Michael Palin's New Europe. Its a great 7 part documentary on eastern Europe and its changing face (exactly as you mention) [its out there if you look hard enough].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Palin%27s_New_Europe

Of course there are also many many globe trotting communities around that can help you if you are really serious.

Good Luck.

While I agree (and have been to all 3) that Estonia/Latvija/Lithuania are all countries that are becoming more touristy (everyone should see how magnificent and medieval the old town in Estonia is) but Belarus still requires a visa, tourist, transit, business, all required. It's not that big of a deal, but it CANNOT be obtained at the border. I met some other travelers that went, and they are still alive but don't know much else.

The government's travel report has no official warnings but its ranked "excersice high degree of caution" which is 2 on their scale of 4 warnings (4 being avoid all travel). Where as Estonia/Latvija/Lithuania all have the lowest "Exercise normal security precautions"

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=27000

to the OP if you do end up in Lithuania looking to go to Poland. DO NOT TAKE THE NIGHT TRAIN as it has a connection in Minsk Belarus and a visa is required to even pass through. There is 1 day train that goes to Warsaw without passing through Belarus, and more buses then you can shake a stick at both day and night that avoid Belarus. (there are also buses that run to Kiev Ukraine without going through Belarus).



I don't know what the OP means by change. Yes cities will change but Europe's pretty good at preserving old parts of town.

I would say visiting Denmark and seeing Christiania would fit in the "changing" context. Its quite an interesting part of town... read up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

That place is always changing. There is no photos allowed but digging through some old family photo albums, I found some pics of it from the 70's, bunch of naked people walking around all hippied out. Not like that any more.

Turkey is AMAZING, not sure if you would consider it changing but Istanbul is a really interesting city.

Sunny Beach, Bulgaria is quite a cool beach town, VERY long beach strip full of clubs/bars/restaurants. Its changing in that they are adding a lot of hotels and making the strip even longer. The town of sunny beach doesn't even names for its roads since so many are created.

Krakow Poland is fantastic, and a city called Zakopane (daily buses from Krakow about $6) to the south is quite beautiful if you like mountains and nice smaller cities. Do not take the train to Zakopane as it switches directions a number of times in the mountains and takes a long time.

[omagedon]

Thanks for all the suggestions..

What I mean by "change" is that I am looking for something to see right away or else it can change at any moment..

For example,

Cuba since Fidel Castro is almost dying and in a few years, its gonna change drastically...

Macau, China changing like crazy like most of China. I saw Macau past summer and you could see forest getting chopped down and a big barren land waiting to be built I bet when I go back to the same area there will be at least 5 casinos there..in the barren lands.

[Megan29]

I went to Corsica last year, it is such a beautiful and relaxing place...

[Pete_Coach]

Just wondering I never been to Europe before and would like to go there. Which places you recommend to see before it changes? I was thinking more of Eastern Europe since they are changing pretty rapidly.
I really don't think that after all these years that there are going to be too many drastic changes in Europe over then ext few years. None that would affect your vision of it anyway. I would not worry too much from that perspective.
Although, if you are talking about seeing it before a few new roads or houses are built,well, progress is progress, but the essence of the place remains the same. One thing about Europeans (all of them) is that they are very proud and protective of their heritage and those things will always be preserved.

I heard Venice is sinking :|
Geez, do the Venetians know that?
Oh wait, yes they do, they have been doing preservation work on Venice since, oh, for at least a thousand years. You must have heard about it by now :o

[Ben Jr]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet, I'll say Croatia. Its been two years since I've been there, and I suspect it's changed since its inception into the EU, but for me it still holds some grandeur. But kinda off the beaten path for most I suppose.

Prague is changing for the worse now. Things that were cheap are no longer so cheap. That damn astronomical clock never worked when I went, nor anyone I know that's been either. It seems the Czech's have plans to enter the EU in the coming years and have since starting hiking prices steadily last little while. Poland might be the better option.

[phucyall]

If you really want to live dangerously, then go to Russia (Moscow, Peterbourgh). Ukraine is nice (Kiev).

But if you want to visit a more stable country then go anywhere in the EU. Basically a capital of any country will have something to see. It also depends largely on what you are looking to see. Are you looking to experience club/bar/rave scene? Are you looking to see some old architecture? Beaches?

[jayk]

Actually all of the above mentioned capital cities of Eastern Europe that you guys mentioned above are full of tourists, mostly Brits, Italians, Turks, Americans.

[Talamasca]

Moldova ftw! Poorest country in Europe so it's gotta be cheap there.

[gmark2000]

Croatia intrigues me, especially seeing on the Amazing Race.

[notanexpert]

It's definitely too late for Eaastern Europe. Its changed so much since 1989, you would not believe if you saw it back then and now. You've got to go to places beyond the new EU borders, like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc. These countries will probably udergo a huge transformation over the next decade or so.
Not to mention of course countries in other parts of the world that are changing rapidly, especially in Africa where true wilderness is disappearing at a break-neck pace to make room for the population explosion they are having.
Africa would probably be my number one choice to see asap before there aren't any wild elephants or lions left, because there isn't any more room for them. These animals need vast protected spaces to survive in the wild and right now their habitats are shrinking fast.

[jayk]

It's definitely too late for Eaastern Europe. Its changed so much since 1989, you would not believe if you saw it back then and now. You've got to go to places beyond the new EU borders, like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc. These countries will probably udergo a huge transformation over the next decade or so.
Not to mention of course countries in other parts of the world that are changing rapidly, especially in Africa where true wilderness is disappearing at a break-neck pace to make room for the population explosion they are having.
Africa would probably be my number one choice to see asap before there aren't any wild elephants or lions left, because there isn't any more room for them. These animals need vast protected spaces to survive in the wild and right now their habitats are shrinking fast.

I think the animals in Africa, Indonesia and developing countries are the saddest things in the world. It takes just a couple condos to destroy the habitat of several species that took millions of years to create.

Funny how when 1 human dies it makes headlines, when there are billions of us on this planet but when an entire species gets wiped out, it's given a passing remark.

[sexpuppet6000]

Funny how when 1 human dies it makes headlines, when there are billions of us on this planet but when an entire species gets wiped out, it's given a passing remark.

more like 1 human in the west. thousands die in the far east and nobody even cares.

[Pete_Coach]

It's definitely too late for Eaastern Europe. Its changed so much since 1989, you would not believe if you saw it back then and now. You've got to go to places beyond the new EU borders, like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc. These countries will probably udergo a huge transformation over the next decade or so.
Not to mention of course countries in other parts of the world that are changing rapidly, especially in Africa where true wilderness is disappearing at a break-neck pace to make room for the population explosion they are having.
Africa would probably be my number one choice to see asap before there aren't any wild elephants or lions left, because there isn't any more room for them. These animals need vast protected spaces to survive in the wild and right now their habitats are shrinking fast.
Africa...Eastern Europe...:?:

I think the animals in Africa, Indonesia and developing countries are the saddest things in the world. It takes just a couple condos to destroy the habitat of several species that took millions of years to create.

Funny how when 1 human dies it makes headlines, when there are billions of us on this planet but when an entire species gets wiped out, it's given a passing remark.
Huh?

more like 1 human in the west. thousands die in the far east and nobody even cares.
What?

Wow, talk about way off topic (and fatalist as well)...:confused:

OP, if you have never been, then anywhere you go will be exciting, fresh and new to you. Regardless of what it was like hundreds or years ago, twenty years ago, last year or last wee, it make no matter. What you see will be your image.
Whenever you go anywhere, you have a pre-conceived idea of the place and almost without exception (Venice being one of the very few because change is not allowed and there is no room to build), it will be different because of change and progress. Go and make your own memories.

[jjj3663]

There are lots of choices. I wouldn't include Czech Republic and neighbouring as Eastern Europe, people living there DO get offended, but that's not the point here.

Czech Republic:
As a lot of people like to call it, a place where beer is cheaper than Beer. And have some goulash.
Prague is an obvious choice, but don't forget the small towns if you're looking to get the most out of it. Have some Staropramen
Plzen, home to Pilsner Urquell and Gambrinus beer.
Cesky Krumlov, gorgeous UNESO site but packed with lots of tourists.
Cerna Hora, have a Cerna Hora beer.

Slovakia:
Bratislava

Hungary:
Budapest

Poland:
Warsaw, not too bad of a capital city.
Krakow, gorgeous, culturally very interesting.
Wrocław, very interesting
Auschwitz, German Nazi concentration. very hard to take in when seeing Auschwitz I and II camps in person, nothing out of the textbooks beat that.

Austria
Vienna, with lots of shopping, historic sites, and more packed in a tiny space.
Salzburg, if you watched 'The Sound of Music' when you were little, you might really want to go see it.

Slovenia

Croatia

Germany
too many to name, but take your pick.

They are all very well connected by trains and/or buses by a couple hours away. It's very easy to get into each city flying inter-European airlines.

Since it's your first time there, you'll find everything very fascinating. Do bring a simple phrase book, even the print-outs you get off the internet will be helpful. Keep spare change for the washrooms.

[NorthYorker]

I strongly agree that Eastern Europe (I mean everything East of Geman border and West of Ural range) changes very rapidly, but I disagree that pace of change will slow down soon. You see, nineties were mostly lost decade for Eastern Europe in terms of infrastructure and economic development. Now they're picking up on roads, transit, building construction and so on. So you will see a lot of changes there in the next decade and if you want to catch those last sparks of Age of Empires, you may want to visit there now. Hungary, Romania (Borat's "Kazakhstan" had been shot there), Poland, Czech (to a lesser extent). But pace of changes will be even more pronounced in former Soviet Union (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus).

Speaking about particular countries, I strongly disagree with apocalyptic picture painted by GangStarr about Belarus. I'm not going to argue, since he has full support of Western propaganda machine in bashing Belarussian regime and Western coverage of Belarus makes perceived "anti-muslim bias" in Western press to look like old Lada next to new Lamborgini. Belarus is pretty strict in terms of visa and such (as is Russia and Ukraine), but it is pretty safe by the standards of Eastern Europe. 2-strikes rating of Canadian government is same as Poland's, Romania's, Bulgaria's and many other Eastern European countries (BTW, I was surprised to see Cuba listed as "safe" and Poland or Ukraine as "2 strikes", but I guess difference between real-life experience and gathering reports from press explains it). I happen to believe that Belarus is much safer than Cuba. That being said, Belarus is NOT a tourist country for one very simple reason. There's not much to see. It had been among hardest-hit countries in WWII. Minsk, it's capital, had grand total of 8 or so buildings left standing after the war, and that's about typical for the country, which lost 25% of it's population in 1941-1945. War wiped out most of tourist attractions. It created some others, but you have to be war or history buff to be interested in those (for example, Brest Fortress, which makes Leonides and his bunch of Spartans look like timid girls from Catholic monastery school, or Minsk Ghetto memorial).

Moldova, although cheap, is not particularly attractive for tourists too. BTW, I thought Albania holds the title "poorest country in Europe", but I might mistake.

[abu_sme]

Keep in mind that a lot of these countries in eastern europe that aren't in the EU can be a real pain. Take Russia for example. You need:

A letter of invitation (from relative or travel agency)
A visa
Visa

The visa takes about a month. Oh, and every night you ar there you have to have booked accomodation.

I am thinking of doing the trans-siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing, but the requirements are so stringent that I am giving it a second thought.

I have some pretty good plans though for the year.

February: Italy
March: Egypt
April: Dresden-Prague-Vienna-Budapest
May:Poland

[xpat]

I would say Krakow, Poland.

++ for Krakow. Prague is nice but it's not all that everyone makes it out to be.

[xpat]

Albania holds the title "poorest country in Europe", but I might mistake.
You are right, but historically they are one of the oldest and richest countries. Unfortunately due to politics they are in rough shape. However, the beaches are great and living expenses aren't bad.


I am thinking of doing the trans-siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing, but the requirements are so stringent that I am giving it a second thought.

that's an excellent trip if you are brave enough. speaking some russian would be good, watch your back.

[b166er1337]

I am thinking of doing the trans-siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing, but the requirements are so stringent that I am giving it a second thought.



I would love to go to that one as well. However, you have to realize that you are sharing one toilet with like 30 other people,. for 10~16 days!!

I would probably start from the other way (Beijing -> Moscow).

[boyoflondon]

You are right, but historically they are one of the oldest and richest countries. Unfortunately due to politics they are in rough shape. However, the beaches are great and living expenses aren't bad.


Albania historically "oldest and richest" country? Please provide some proof. Having come from Balkans, this is the first time I hear such a thing ...

[GangStarr]

Keep in mind that a lot of these countries in eastern europe that aren't in the EU can be a real pain. Take Russia for example. You need:

A letter of invitation (from relative or travel agency)
A visa
Visa

The visa takes about a month. Oh, and every night you ar there you have to have booked accomodation.

I am thinking of doing the trans-siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing, but the requirements are so stringent that I am giving it a second thought.

I have some pretty good plans though for the year.

February: Italy
March: Egypt
April: Dresden-Prague-Vienna-Budapest
May:Poland

Don't associate russian visa problems with eastern europe. Most of eastern europe is now in the EU. Even countries that arn't, like serbia & montenegro and croatia are NO PROBLEM for Canadians. Serbia requires you register with the police and the hostel does it for you. Places one used to require a visa like Estonia, Latvija, Lithuania, Ukraine, even Albania do not require visa's for Canadians. No visa required, no problems at the border.

You can get express russian visa's in 48 hours, at least with my eu passport.

The only places Canadians need visas is pretty much the following

Macedonia: Requires visa, CANNOT be obtained at the border. Requires transit visa as well. Be very careful with trains out of Greece, make sure they don't pass through Macedonia or you will be removed from the train, detained, and deported. (many EU citizens can however pass through macedonia)

Belarus: Requires visa both transit and tourist, CANNOT be obtained at the border

Turkey: Requires Visa, can easily be obtained at the border, just a matter of paying. Cheaper for americans and EU citizens though.

On a side note, your Egypt portion of the travel would be best at the beginning or end. Your best bet would be to hit Vienna after italy.

[Pavel]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet, I'll say Croatia. Its been two years since I've been there, and I suspect it's changed since its inception into the EU, but for me it still holds some grandeur. But kinda off the beaten path for most I suppose..

Misinformation posted here. Croatia is not in the EU, and very well may not be. It's hoped it will be around 2010 or later but it's looking iffy right now.

And yes, to the OP, Europe is changing really fast. Pretty soon, it'll disappear altogether off the face of this planet. :lol:

[GangStarr]

Misinformation posted here. Croatia is not in the EU, and very well may not be. It's hoped it will be around 2010 or later but it's looking iffy right now.

And yes, to the OP, Europe is changing really fast. Pretty soon, it'll disappear altogether off the face of this planet. :lol:

Your right Croatia isn't in the EU, but the place has changed and is changing. Lonely planet said it best about Croatia, since their are so many tourist that want to see Croatia their attitude is "war? what war?"

Split is AMAZING. I wish I had spent more time in Croatia, another traveller said he rented a moped and drop up to coast with a small tent. I would love to do that.

Mind you Croatia has no sandy beaches unless you hit the islands. Lots of rock jumping and some of the bluest waters in the world!

[Pavel]

The important point to remember about Europe is that despite the changes in the economy, technology, population, and what not, the Europeans are retaining their culture, architecture, beauty, heritage etc. That's not likely to change, unlike here in Canada. Unfortunately though, every year, living in Europe is getting more and more expensive for it's people. There's still lots of evidence of the war, but tourists don't want to see that.

[abu_sme]

On a side note, your Egypt portion of the travel would be best at the beginning or end. Your best bet would be to hit Vienna after italy.


My home is in Amsterdam, so all of the trips are actually seperate. The trans-siberian is one I am thinking of, but I am considering other options too. The trans-siberian portion won't take place until July, I have no choice as I have classes until June 30th. I need to find a travel companion though before I arrange anything.

I have the luck of having a contact in almost every major city in Europe, so a lot of my travelling is to visit people.

[omagedon]

Misinformation posted here. Croatia is not in the EU, and very well may not be. It's hoped it will be around 2010 or later but it's looking iffy right now.

And yes, to the OP, Europe is changing really fast. Pretty soon, it'll disappear altogether off the face of this planet. :lol:

Pavel, why do you always goto each thread and make wisecracks?

[Pavel]

Each thread?? Give me a break. I hope you don't turn into one of those stalkers. ;)

BTW. You must admit, the title of your thread is pretty funny.

[redkid]

when i planned my trip 2 prague, i didn't realize canadians needed a visa back then so i was not able to go, however the rest of my group said it was awesome instead i had 2 stay few extra days in germany which is very nice, specially cause i don't speak german but had friends there so they made my stay easier.

Now a place that i've been and would like recommended is budapest in hungary, it's VERY nice, they got a McDonalds in a building designed by Eiffel. So many beautiful bridges, very friendly people and the women wow !