HID Powering Up Problem.

[DJ Trance AZ]

OK, I just replaced my existing HID ballasts and bulbs with a new set 2 days ago. My car still has the daytime running light enabled and the HID comes on whenever the car starts.

So anyway, I noticed a very strange issue today. The HID doesn't come on when I start my car (whenever I don't have the handbrake pulled), even manually turning on the headlights will not turn on the HID.

What will make the HID work is make sure the handbrake is pulled before starting the car, then start the engine (while leaving the handbrake pulled), turn on the headlight manually, then release handbrake, start driving...

I never had this problem when I was using my Prolumen HID setup...

So what do you think it's wrong?

.Eric

[MP3_SKY]

Double check to see if the ballast, bulbs, relay are well connected, not loose out, or see if water damaged in case you put your ballast that water can easily get in.

[enforcerviper]

I don't know if this helps, but my car is factory wired so if I pull the handbrake, the headlights (including DRL) are turned off.

[cwb27]

DRL runs at a low voltage... is it possible that running the HID ballasts at a lower voltage cause them to fail.

[kleptodathief]

isnt it bad to have HIDS and DRLs together? i thought once u install an aftermarket HID kit, u have to disable the DRLs:idea:

[DJ Trance AZ]

Well let me try to disable the DRL today...and see if it will get better...I will also check to see if the connectors are tight and stuff.

I don't know why the new HID setup wouldn't work because I only took out the old ballasts and bulbs, then put the new set in...I didn't change any wires and stuff.

.Eric

[Pete_Coach]

isnt it bad to have HIDS and DRLs together? i thought once u install an aftermarket HID kit, u have to disable the DRLs:idea:

DRL's are the law. Don't disconnect them. They work when you have factory installed HID headlights. They should be a different circuit that is why they are on.
Check all your installation again. You probably missed something. You could have a problem with your wiring or replacement parts.

[ar_ken]

Does your car have foglights? If you do, try to see if you can wire the DRL so it uses the fogs instead of the HID...

[cwb27]

Well let me try to disable the DRL today...and see if it will get better...I will also check to see if the connectors are tight and stuff.

I don't know why the new HID setup wouldn't work because I only took out the old ballasts and bulbs, then put the new set in...I didn't change any wires and stuff.

.Eric

Pull your DRL fuse out from under your dash to see if that allows them to function properly when you turn on the headlights.


And yes, DRL laws in Canada are quite general, DRLS can be amber or white lights (Fog lights, head lights or marker lamps).

[DJ Trance AZ]

I dug up some guides on how to disable the DRL for my car and voila, my HID turns on whenever I want them to!!!!

This is kinda strange because my old HID setup worked very well even with DRL enabled...

Thanks for all your help!!

.e

[kleptodathief]

nice DJ... as for DRLs, ive beein driving my ricer for the last 2.5 years with NO DRLs, no p0p0 troubles :cheesygri

[Paolo]

Yes I can 100% confirm, the DRL circuit WILL give problems with MOST, probaly not all, but MOST HID Setups. The OEM Manufacturers typically move the DRL to the high beam or the turn / park lights instead to overcome this problem. Over at the Ontario Focus Owners Club, we had to remove our DRL relay to overcome this problem, I also discovered a way to re-locate the DRL to the Fog lights, thus the DRF modification.

check it out: www.ofoc.ca/hid

[Paolo]

DRL's are the law. Don't disconnect them. They work when you have factory installed HID headlights. They should be a different circuit that is why they are on.
Check all your installation again. You probably missed something. You could have a problem with your wiring or replacement parts.

DRL has to be "equipped" on all new cars, but NOT have to have them actually in use. Look at cops and other cars like ambulance, or fire trucks, tow trucks, snow plows, etc, no law in the Ontario Highway traffic act states you MUST HAVE drls, you can even import a car from the usa, install drls to certify them, then remove them. i see tons of us cars driving here just to visit with no drls and they do not get tickets, plus older cars before 1989 did not need drls, its not a LAW, but more of a misunderstanding.

[DJ Trance AZ]

Yes I can 100% confirm, the DRL circuit WILL give problems with MOST, probaly not all, but MOST HID Setups. The OEM Manufacturers typically move the DRL to the high beam or the turn / park lights instead to overcome this problem. Over at the Ontario Focus Owners Club, we had to remove our DRL relay to overcome this problem, I also discovered a way to re-locate the DRL to the Fog lights, thus the DRF modification.

check it out: www.ofoc.ca/hid

Hmm I guess I was lucky enough that my old HID setup worked well even with DRL enabled :D

.e

[Paolo]

Hmm I guess I was lucky enough that my old HID setup worked well even with DRL enabled :D

.e

LUCKY? you could have caused your ballasts to overheat and BURN over time. thats a Fire Hazard dude, NOT COOL!

[syn3rgetic]

DRL's are the law. Don't disconnect them. They work when you have factory installed HID headlights. They should be a different circuit that is why they are on.
Check all your installation again. You probably missed something. You could have a problem with your wiring or replacement parts.

Does your car have foglights? If you do, try to see if you can wire the DRL so it uses the fogs instead of the HID...

+1.

That what I did. I did the same thing for my RSX. My RSX came with fog lights so I just that circuit for the HID. Beautiful and the cops can't give me trouble either.

[cwb27]

DRL has to be "equipped" on all new cars, but NOT have to have them actually in use. Look at cops and other cars like ambulance, or fire trucks, tow trucks, snow plows, etc, no law in the Ontario Highway traffic act states you MUST HAVE drls, you can even import a car from the usa, install drls to certify them, then remove them. i see tons of us cars driving here just to visit with no drls and they do not get tickets, plus older cars before 1989 did not need drls, its not a LAW, but more of a misunderstanding.

Bad example, emergency vehicles are exempted from many HTA requirements.

[Paolo]

Bad example, emergency vehicles are exempted from many HTA requirements.

but your forgetting the point, there IS NO HTA requirement for DRL's to begin with, so emergency vehicles can not be excempt from a hta requirement that does NOT EXIST, so that means regular vehicles can disable DRL: if there is NO REQUIREMENT FOR THEM to operate. Also, cars driving up from USA have no DRL the cop said he can not ticket them because there is no law in the hta books to fine them with. all he can do is tell them to turn on the headlights at dusk

[DragonZealot]

There is need to disable DRL in order to run HID. You just have to bypass the low voltage circuit, that is, run the HID in full voltage in DRL mode.

If you disable DRL you are just giving the insurance company a good excuse not to pay out the compensation if you hit someone.

[DragonZealot]

LUCKY? you could have caused your ballasts to overheat and BURN over time. thats a Fire Hazard dude, NOT COOL!

A PROPERLY designed HID will not overhead in extended usage. It should be designed for 100% duty cycle plus plenty of margin. What if I want to drive to Vancouver and the weather is is poor during the whole trip?

[Narci]

MB does have HTA laws on DRL and emergency vehicles.

http://www.canlii.org/mb/laws/sta/h-60/20060614/part1.html

(n) Every motor vehicle manufactured on or after December 1, 1989, other than a motorcycle or moped, shall carry daytime running lights that comply with the standards prescribed for such lights by the regulations made under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada), and any motor vehicle manufactured before that date, other than a motorcycle or moped, may carry daytime running lights that comply with the standards approved for such lights by the Canadian Standards Association.

(o) Notwithstanding clause (n), a motor vehicle used for police duty may be equipped with a switch that, when activated, bypasses the unit controlling the daytime running lights required under that clause, and the switch may be activated if the motor vehicle is also equipped with an indicator light to alert the driver that the daytime running lights system has been bypassed and if both the indicator light and the switch are activated at the same time.

[cwb27]

but your forgetting the point, there IS NO HTA requirement for DRL's to begin with, so emergency vehicles can not be excempt from a hta requirement that does NOT EXIST, so that means regular vehicles can disable DRL: if there is NO REQUIREMENT FOR THEM to operate. Also, cars driving up from USA have no DRL the cop said he can not ticket them because there is no law in the hta books to fine them with. all he can do is tell them to turn on the headlights at dusk

Not really forgetting the point, just pointing out an error.

And while we're on the topic, non-Ontario registered cars are a bad example as well. That's like saying that having a front plate in Ontario isn't law because vehicles from Quebec don't get tickets. You need to remember the difference between a "Ontario registered vehicle" and "non-Ontario registered vehicle". While the Ontario HTA pertains to vehicles using roads in Ontario, there are exemptions to vehicles that are not registered in the province of Ontario but still using provincial roads.

The fact of the matter is that you're not going to get a ticket for not having DRLS. Probably a good idea if you stop trying to give examples. :)

[Paolo]

A PROPERLY designed HID will not overhead in extended usage. It should be designed for 100% duty cycle plus plenty of margin. What if I want to drive to Vancouver and the weather is is poor during the whole trip?

Your forgetting, a Properly designed HID expects 100% of the power to be delivered to the balast. not a reduced 80 or 90% of the power to be delivered to the HID Balast. Thats like putting a Dimmer on a Flourescent lighting. These lights NEED ALL the JUICE THEY CAN GET AT STARTUP. after it starts/ignites, it doesnt need all the voltage anymore. and can run with a reduced power, but the DRL circuit gives out a constant reduced voltage all the time, so it doesnt equal, cant you understand? you can put relays in and your not really bypassing the drl circuit, your just using the drls turning ON to activate the relays thus giving a FULL PROPER voltage to the HIDS and you will not need to disable anything in your car thus if your worried about being legal, then DO THIS, NO ONES TELLIGN YOU NOT TO.

[EH100501AC]

lol this is what happens when you cheap out and not get it installed by people who know what they're doing. ;)

[AzNCrAzYcOoLeR]

What's your bulb size?

[DJ Trance AZ]

9006.

.e

[DragonZealot]

LUCKY? you could have caused your ballasts to overheat and BURN over time. thats a Fire Hazard dude, NOT COOL!


Your forgetting, a Properly designed HID expects 100% of the power to be delivered to the balast. not a reduced 80 or 90% of the power to be delivered to the HID Balast. Thats like putting a Dimmer on a Flourescent lighting. These lights NEED ALL the JUICE THEY CAN GET AT STARTUP. after it starts/ignites, it doesnt need all the voltage anymore. and can run with a reduced power, but the DRL circuit gives out a constant reduced voltage all the time, so it doesnt equal, cant you understand? you can put relays in and your not really bypassing the drl circuit, your just using the drls turning ON to activate the relays thus giving a FULL PROPER voltage to the HIDS and you will not need to disable anything in your car thus if your worried about being legal, then DO THIS, NO ONES TELLIGN YOU NOT TO.

I never said I want to give it 80or 90% of the power to the HID. I said I would just bypass the DRL resistor and give it 100% juice all the time.

So why would giving it 100% of the juice 100% of the time, as you said in your previous post, could cause the ballasts to overheat and BURN over time???

[Paolo]

I never said I want to give it 80or 90% of the power to the HID. I said I would just bypass the DRL resistor and give it 100% juice all the time.

So why would giving it 100% of the juice 100% of the time, as you said in your previous post, could cause the ballasts to overheat and BURN over time???

I was talking about the OP who had left the DRL circuit intact on his car. The first set he used it worked fine, then he switched companies and the ballasts were not igniting properly. THIS is who I am talking abut and to. not you. Yes the HIDs itself are properly designed. The first situation, may have overheated/burned in the op's case, just as much as the second situation.

[DragonZealot]

THIS is who I am talking abut and to. not you.

If you are not talking to me then don't quote my words and response. Everyone would just think you are responding to my words.

[DragonZealot]

The first situation, may have overheated/burned in the op's case, just as much as the second situation.

What are the first and second situations?

And you still did not answer how would they overheat/burn the HID.

[Pete_Coach]

lol this is what happens when you cheap out and not get it installed by people who know what they're doing. ;)

+1, could not have said it better myself. Look at the number of different opinions and ideas here on this issue. Each may have merit but in the end, the OP still has a problem. Sometimes you really need to find the right person for the right job.

[Paolo]

What are the first and second situations?

And you still did not answer how would they overheat/burn the HID.

I can show you a photo of my friends burnt to a crisp ballast that almost caused the rest of his engine bay to catch fire, that happened as a DIRECT RESULT of his DRL circuit not being removed causing the balast not to receive the proper voltage. JUST MAYBE that will ANSWER your freaking question? YES!

[ShaTR]

sry about diggin up an old topic, but...

OP mentioned his lights are 9006.... since when do 9006 bulbs run DRL's????? usually when u have 9006's, u also have 9005's as your high beams, which are also used as daytime runners. correct me if i'm wrong.

[cwb27]

sry about diggin up an old topic, but...

OP mentioned his lights are 9006.... since when do 9006 bulbs run DRL's????? usually when u have 9006's, u also have 9005's as your high beams, which are also used as daytime runners. correct me if i'm wrong.

Some cars are funny... My car has H7s and 9005s, the H7s are the DRLs.

[2k4accord]

I hope you have a good wiring harness for those HID lights. This wiring harness will protect your car electrical system if the HID back fire and fry your electrical system. This can be expensive to fix.
May I ask what year is your car? The older the car, the more likely you will need a good wiring harness for HID.
HID can be the kit or OEM HID retro.

[cwb27]

I hope you have a good wiring harness for those HID lights. This wiring harness will protect your car electrical system if the HID back fire and fry your electrical system. This can be expensive to fix.
May I ask what year is your car? The older the car, the more likely you will need a good wiring harness for HID.
HID can be the kit or OEM HID retro.

What do you mean by backfire? And what does the wiring harness have to do with anything?

You do know that HID ballasts generally consume less power then conventional bulbs, right?

[l69norm]

What do you mean by backfire? And what does the wiring harness have to do with anything? You do know that HID ballasts generally consume less power then conventional bulbs, right?

HID ballasts can draw more than 10Amps+ each X2 ballasts to ignite the bulbs. Once the bulbs are lit after 10-40 seconds, the current then drops down to about 3A (35W). A 55W halogen bulb draws a consistent 5Amps. The wiring needs to be able to handle the 20+ amp starting surge.

Take a 23W CFL light bulb that many people use inside thier home. If you turn the light switch to just the right (wrong) spot, you'll hear a loud arcing noise. That's the surge current the ballast is using to light the CFL bulb. Now at 110V, it's 1/10 what the current would be at 12V. Imagine what it's doing to your car's light switch. A replacement house light switch is worth $1. A replacemnt light switch for your car probably cost $200-$300.

Sure, you can get without a seperate $35 wiring harness for HIDs. Lots of people do without, but eventually it will catch up with you.

[cwb27]

HID ballasts can draw more than 10Amps+ each X2 ballasts to ignite the bulbs. Once the bulbs are lit after 10-40 seconds, the current then drops down to about 3A (35W). A 55W halogen bulb draws a consistent 5Amps. The wiring needs to be able to handle the 20+ amp starting surge.

Take a 23W CFL light bulb that many people use inside thier home. If you turn the light switch to just the right (wrong) spot, you'll hear a loud arcing noise. That's the surge current the ballast is using to light the CFL bulb. Now at 110V, it's 1/10 what the current would be at 12V. Imagine what it's doing to your car's light switch. A replacement house light switch is worth $1. A replacemnt light switch for your car probably cost $200-$300.

Sure, you can get without a seperate $35 wiring harness for HIDs. Lots of people do without, but eventually it will catch up with you.

I don't understand your example? Are you saying the household switch would be damaged due to pitting because of the arcing? It takes quite a bit of arcing to damage a household switch to the point where it needs to replaced. Most importantly, typically in automotive usage there is a left and right relay to turn on the headlights. So it's practically impossible for an automotive switch to be damaged due to arcing as almost no current (only amount drawn by the coil in the relay which never changes no matter the load on the relay) is passing thru it.

Also, as each relay is operating independently each would only need to handle a max of 120 watt (10 Amps) for a single split second to ignite the arc in the bulb.

[l69norm]

I don't understand your example? Are you saying the household switch would be damaged due to pitting because of the arcing? It takes quite a bit of arcing to damage a household switch to the point where it needs to replaced. Most importantly, typically in automotive usage there is a left and right relay to turn on the headlights. So it's practically impossible for an automotive switch to be damaged due to arcing as almost no current (only amount drawn by the coil in the relay which never changes no matter the load on the relay) is passing thru it.

Also, as each relay is operating independently each would only need to handle a max of 120 watt (10 Amps) for a single split second to ignite the arc in the bulb.

1. Headlights are fused/CB seperately. Have a look at the electrical diagram for your car. Most cars do not have stock lighting relays. If they did, there would not be a need for seperate aftermarket wiring harnesses that are widely available for sale. Most cars power the headlights right off the light switch (or via a "smart" control module). Those switches/modules are designed to handle halogen bulbs - 2X55W or about 10Amps total of current.

2. A household light switch is much more rugged (110V 15 Amps) than the one in your car and if it's arcing to the level which is clearly audible with only 1/10th the amount of current, imagine how much worse it would be with 10X the current.

3. An HID bulb needs about 20KV to "fire up". After the the bulb fires, the ballast switches to 85 VAC. Others have already measured that the current surge is between 10-15 Amps per ballast for 10 - 40 seconds depending on the ballast manufacturer. The G35/FX35 uses Matsushita G3 = 10 seconds. BMW or Audi use Hella/Philips G3 = 40 seconds. When the ballast switches to low voltage mode, current drops to about 3A each or 6A total.

4. The stock OEM lighting switch need to handle 20-30 Amps (double or triple normal load) for that 10-40 seconds. Unfortunantely, it's at the worst possible time, when the contacts are first closing. OEM parts are not rated at 200 or 300% normal load. Eventually, something will have to give.

Maybe nothing will happen. A lot of people install HIDs without wiring harnesses and never have a problem. Others burn wires or melt bulb sockets (easy fixes). A few will damage the light switch which is very expensive to fix. A wiring harness costs $20-30 and maybe a hour at the most to build and install. You probably should have had one installed already to get the most out of your old halogen bulbs before even upgrading to HID.

The HID kit already costs $100-$200 or more. Retrofits are $300+.

Is another $20-$30 going to make that much difference?

[kleptodathief]

^ good post man, im using a PnP H1 8000k hid kit on my ricer with 9006 low beams/9005 hi beams as my STOCK lites, but i got no OEM DRLs to worry bout,

so far nps with the HID kit(1 year now), i don't think im using any special wiring harness its just connected strait to my oem headlite sockets via crimpled connectors, no splicing of wires

no blown fuses or bad bulbs/ballasts, i even turn on my hids without the engine running either, and sometimes when my alarm goes off the HIDS FLASH on and off! i know thats bad but its still working to this day

a wiring harness meaning a relay setup where it connects to the car battery?

[l69norm]

....a wiring harness meaning a relay setup where it connects to the car battery?

Yes, a direct connection to the battery with a fused relay and heavier wiring 14-16 AWG.

As long as you aren't having problems, especially in very cold weather, you should be OK. The cheapie ballasts seem to have trouble firing HID bulbs when it's too cold outside.