Ran a red, calculated insurance increase amount ~$100/year, comments?

[D-Sisive]

i didnt run the red

my dad apparently made a stop for less than 3 seconds at a red light, then made a right and a cop pulled him over (we both know and do stop 3secs for a yellow and red before making a right turn, but i guess he didnt wait long enough this morning)

ticket is for running a red

hes insured with belairdirect

i did the online quote for him using his info from his insurance papers

before the 1minor conviction and after, the difference was around $105 for the year, but lets bump it up to 150 just in case there are other factors that you can't pick from the online quote system

im gonna make a court date for him, then go to court with him in the future and see if the cop is there, if hes not, plead not guilty, if he is, ask for a later date cause my dad doesn't have his counsel with him (will this "counsel is not here" excuse work? cause i want to push the court date as far back as possible to try to get it past 1 year so my dad can use the charter defense/statute of limitations)

but lets say the cop is there, should we try to cut a deal to a different type of ticket/plead guilty for a lesser fine? and who do we cut the deal with, the cop or the prosecutor? (i want to know though if there is a difference in minor tickets, ie regardless of speeding over 10/20/30km or running a red, does insurance care what type of minor conviction it is or is it grouped altogether?)

also if you request for disclosure, does that usually make the cop show up since he knows someone wants his notes for the court date?

and lastly, lets say my dad just pleads guilty and pays for the ticket, his insurance prems go up, how long do they stay up for? cause if its only a few years and then it comes back down again, i dont think he'll bother hiring some traffic fighters if they are gonna charge him ~500+ cause the ticket is $180 (it could be less if he can get a lessen fine applied) + (x) amount of years of prem increase so it might work out the same

thanks

[bkim3]

3 years for ticket/6 years for accident

[bobbings]

im gonna make a court date for him, then go to court with him in the future and see if the cop is there, if hes not, plead not guilty, if he is, ask for a later date cause my dad doesn't have his counsel with him (will this "counsel is not here" excuse work? cause i want to push the court date as far back as possible to try to get it past 1 year so my dad can use the charter defense/statute of limitations)


All I know is if you are the one pushing the court date back, your chance of winning by using that charter defense is pretty slim. You had your court date but you decided not to follow through with the original date. Why should the court allow you to argue with that defense then? You're better off finding another defense.

[Atomic Chip]

All I know is if you are the one pushing the court date back, your chance of winning by using that charter defense is pretty slim. You had your court date but you decided not to follow through with the original date. Why should the court allow you to argue with that defense then? You're better off finding another defense.

+1.

[D-Sisive]

All I know is if you are the one pushing the court date back, your chance of winning by using that charter defense is pretty slim. You had your court date but you decided not to follow through with the original date. Why should the court allow you to argue with that defense then? You're better off finding another defense.

alright thanks for that info

now my dad just called up some ticket fighter a friend of his recommended (that ticket fighter helped him clear several speeding tickets with no insurance increase apparently) said for $250 he can take off the whole ticket with no insurance increase or demerit points

i dont know how legit that is but i guess my dad is going to go through with it

i'll update this thread in the future, but if anyone else has any comments/experience to share, go ahead

[bubble.tea]

All I know is if you are the one pushing the court date back, your chance of winning by using that charter defense is pretty slim. You had your court date but you decided not to follow through with the original date. Why should the court allow you to argue with that defense then? You're better off finding another defense.

Is this an opinion, or fact?

I never even KNEW about this shrewd tactic, and admit it was quite devious.

[woodstock827]

Is this an opinion, or fact?

I never even KNEW about this shrewd tactic, and admit it was quite devious.

Usually when people postpone their court date, they're hoping that the officer don't show up the next time. Using the chartered right would unlikely work because it was the offender who postponed the trial, not the system.

Wow.. that cop must be not yet met his quota...

[PrinceMS]

alright thanks for that info

now my dad just called up some ticket fighter a friend of his recommended (that ticket fighter helped him clear several speeding tickets with no insurance increase apparently) said for $250 he can take off the whole ticket with no insurance increase or demerit points

i dont know how legit that is but i guess my dad is going to go through with it

i'll update this thread in the future, but if anyone else has any comments/experience to share, go ahead

no one can GURUANTEE the result, this is what they fight for. At best they promise NO demerit points, but there is still a fine and ticket is there as a minor offence - hence insurance increase (which depends on person to person - in my case it was $10 per year, which i had hard time believing)

Pushing the date *suppose* to work, but again no guruantees. Cop usually align all their cases on a day - take the day off from work for the court. If you are allowed to move the date, there is a chance that cop will not show because he has actual duty (and they do prefer to do that, rather than sit and wait on a court hearing).

Before making a court date (or hiring someone) go see JOP (justic of peace) at the place where your ticket is suppose ot be paid (call the # in the back to make sure JOP is in and where exactly you be disputing it).
JOP has the power to revoke the ticket , or offer you a mark down. They are judge w/o the judge name. Anyway, take your dad, be humble, ask the JOP nicely that it could have been miscommunication or misunderstanding. There are witnesses that saw dad stopped for 3 seconds. etc. Can he cancel the ticket? if he says he can't, ask him can it make a high parking ticket? because parking tickets are (only tix) not counted against u for insurance.

[corrupt123]

Since when do you have to be stopped for a full 3 seconds? I thought if you're making a right the red must be treated like a stopsign.

Unless you're supposed to stop for 3 seconds at stopsigns too? :confused:

[thelefteyeguy]

Since when do you have to be stopped for a full 3 seconds? I thought if you're making a right the red must be treated like a stopsign.

Unless you're supposed to stop for 3 seconds at stopsigns too? :confused:


I think he meant 0.3 seconds

Let me tell you that if your dad stays with belair...his insurance shouldnt increase because the agent will not check your dad's record every year for traffic tickets.

Your profile is only updated if you get a claim or go to another insurance company

That $100 is likely a general increase to all policies OR for new clients

[jl001]

It seems like this ticket is 2nd ticket.
Insurance will definately increase and increase a lot.
Some insurance may even kick your dad out of their company. It's very hard to get good rate with 2 traffic tickets with any insurance company.
As the earlier poster said, traffic ticket is in your record for 3 years.
The trick is to delay (if not delete) your conviction of 2nd ticket, until your 1st ticket goes beyond 3 yrs.
Actual offence, ticket amount, and demerit points don't make much difference - just the number of tickets...

[thelefteyeguy]

It seems like this ticket is 2nd ticket.
Insurance will definately increase and increase a lot.
Some insurance may even kick your dad out of their company. It's very hard to get good rate with 2 traffic tickets with any insurance company.
As the earlier poster said, traffic ticket is in your record for 3 years.
The trick is to delay (if not delete) your conviction of 2nd ticket, until your 1st ticket goes beyond 3 yrs.
Actual offence, ticket amount, and demerit points don't make much difference - just the number of tickets...

again...if you dont change insurance companies...they will never know

[D-Sisive]

Since when do you have to be stopped for a full 3 seconds? I thought if you're making a right the red must be treated like a stopsign.

Unless you're supposed to stop for 3 seconds at stopsigns too? :confused:

when i do a full stop i usually stop look around and then go, thats about 3 seconds, there is no law with the time, just you have to do complete stop, so my dad and i just use that as a gauge

I think he meant 0.3 seconds

Let me tell you that if your dad stays with belair...his insurance shouldnt increase because the agent will not check your dad's record every year for traffic tickets.

Your profile is only updated if you get a claim or go to another insurance company

That $100 is likely a general increase to all policies OR for new clients

yea we will stay with belair, they are great, had an accident 2 years ago and they covered it as no fault and was very helpful

where is this info that belair agents dont check drivers record every year?

It seems like this ticket is 2nd ticket.
Insurance will definately increase and increase a lot.
Some insurance may even kick your dad out of their company. It's very hard to get good rate with 2 traffic tickets with any insurance company.
As the earlier poster said, traffic ticket is in your record for 3 years.
The trick is to delay (if not delete) your conviction of 2nd ticket, until your 1st ticket goes beyond 3 yrs.
Actual offence, ticket amount, and demerit points don't make much difference - just the number of tickets...

actually this is my dads first moving violation with belair and his last moving violation was 5 years ago with TD insurance so its cleared

i just said i made comparisions before 1 minor conviction and none in the online quote system and it was a difference of ~100

[corrupt123]

So did he come to a complete stop? i.e. tires not rolling at all?

If so I'd go fight it. Theres no law that says it has to take you x amount of time to scan an intersection, it just says that you must come to a complete stop and proceed only when the way is clear.

[ygtgxi]

your dad insurance will only go up till next renewal

Also if a cop want to be an ass, its so easy to be an ass anything can be a problem

[thelefteyeguy]

when i do a full stop i usually stop look around and then go, thats about 3 seconds, there is no law with the time, just you have to do complete stop, so my dad and i just use that as a gauge



yea we will stay with belair, they are great, had an accident 2 years ago and they covered it as no fault and was very helpful

where is this info that belair agents dont check drivers record every year?



actually this is my dads first moving violation with belair and his last moving violation was 5 years ago with TD insurance so its cleared

i just said i made comparisions before 1 minor conviction and none in the online quote system and it was a difference of ~100

1. there's no such thing as no-fault. It's either your dad's fault or the other party. If your dad is not at fault, his record is clean. What is your dad's rating? if it's a 1 or a 2, then he was found at fault, and perhaps Belair is giving him a special rate as in a forgiveness rate. But if he's found at fault, and goes to another insurance company, the new company may not honor that and will consider that he has 1 claim.

2. Insurance companies will not run a record check at renewal because it cost them money to run a drivers abstract and it takes an administrator to check which cost man power. Imagine an insurance company running an abstract on a yearly basis for all it's clients? That insurance company would not be competitive with the industry. Claims are flagged right away on renewal and usually an abstract it done also. If you have no claims and are an existing customer, they *usually* dont do a check. So I wouldnt worry.

BTW...i think I did tell you that you are usually able to have 2 minor offense before there is a surcharge on your premiums. If Belair is charging you just for 1 minor or even 2 minor infractions (most companies allow 2 or under for 3 years)...it's time to find a broker. 99% of drivers have at least 1 ticket...and it doesnt mean they are bad drivers or have increase risk.

[blue mountain raider]

so by law u need to stop at red for 3 secs before making right hand turn? hmm... thanks for this info.

[bobbings]

Is this an opinion, or fact?

I never even KNEW about this shrewd tactic, and admit it was quite devious.

It's just my opinion. If it were a fact, I would have told him straight up that there is no chance of winning by postponing the court date and using the limitations defense. I merely told him that there's a slim chance of winning if he were to use that defense.

How do you argue using the limitations defense if you go to court saying the reason it took longer than expected was because you postponed the initial court date? Surely the JP will come after you for that argument.

so by law u need to stop at red for 3 secs before making right hand turn? hmm... thanks for this info.

I don't know about the 3 second rule but I know there's a need to look to your left back to your right and then to your left again before you accelerate. At least that's what my driving instructor told me before.

[bubble.tea]

What IS the statue* of limitations anyway?


*heheh, Seinfeld vice Kramer

[thelefteyeguy]

What IS the statue* of limitations anyway?


*heheh, Seinfeld vice Kramer

hehe...i highly doubt you can continuously make creative excuses to why you can't make it to court

[bubble.tea]

hehe...i highly doubt you can continuously make creative excuses to why you can't make it to court

AGreed. The way the OP phrased his strategy-indicated that this statute of limitations was 6months or 9months or so (depending on how far post-poned the 2nd court date would presumably be).