Garage changed my johnson rod ... and threw the old one out !

[almostfreeman]

I took my winter beater to the garage for an occasional starting problem that has been difficult to diagnose. This place was recommended as a good place to go for electrical problems. After my car spending a couple of days at the shop the guy decides I need a new $350 module installed ( after some lengthy spiel about how he had arrived at this conclusion). I consented over the phone for him to go ahead knowing the final bill would fall just short of $600.

Less than a week later I am again experiencing the same problem with the car ... it will occasionally not crank and given enough time it will change it's mind and start again.

I have taken the car back to the shop and still awaiting the results of the "warranty inspection". The guy says he threw out my old module because they don't keep parts unless requested by customer. He swears the old one was defective though. I am willing to give the shop the benefit of doubt but , I can't help but think that either he has not done any work to my car or his diagnosis of the problem was incorrect. I left the garage yesterday with the understanding that he would take a look again for "free" and go from there.

Is it unreasonable to ask for a refund on the new part that was installed that evidently was not the root of the problem? Is there any recourse against unnecessary or incorrectly diagnosed work done by a garage in Ontario other than small claims if a negotiated settlement can't be reached? How would you suggest I handle this situation?

[ES_Revenge]

I have taken the car back to the shop and still awaiting the results of the "warranty inspection". The guy says he threw out my old module because they don't keep parts unless requested by customer. He swears the old one was defective though. I am willing to give the shop the benefit of doubt but , I can't help but think that either he has not done any work to my car or his diagnosis of the problem was incorrect.
I would tend to think his diagnosis was inaccurate. It's a common occurence to have electronics parts replaced instead of the problem troubleshooted properly. Here's an example... "Mechanic" sees code come up that has to do with a certain sensor or module... Mechanic simply replaces that part without actually following the procedure to troubleshoot that code (because the part the code comes up remarking about is not guaranteed to be a problem with that part--it could be a number of other things in most cases).

Anyway tech replaces the part, and the car works for a while, but the problem reoccurs and the customer comes back. Mechanic looks like this guy --> :confused: and then continues to change more parts and charge more $$$, haphazardly guessing at what the problem might be. These type of "mechanics" should definitely be avoided! I'm not saying that this particular mechanic is like this for certain, but I'm just giving an example of what might possibly be the case.

Of course it could be the case that nothing was changed, but it seems in this case something probably was changed but it wasn't the problem in the first place.

Always, always, always ask for the used parts back unless you already knew the part was defective and needed replacing yourself. Even if you're just going to throw those parts in the garbage afterwards on your own, it will usually make sure that those parts were indeed changed.

Is it unreasonable to ask for a refund on the new part that was installed that evidently was not the root of the problem? Is there any recourse against unnecessary or incorrectly diagnosed work done by a garage in Ontario other than small claims if a negotiated settlement can't be reached? How would you suggest I handle this situation?
It isn't unreasonable, but it's unlikely that you'll recover any $$$. What I usually do is just recommend someone in this situation takes their car elsewhere and never goes back to that garage. You can try OMVIC but given the circumstances (and the corrupt nature of OMVIC anyway) I don't think it really looks good for you in the case of that part.

[almostfreeman]

just found this helpful link ... http://www.gov.on.ca/mgs/en/ConsProt/STEL02_045947.html

and this from the Consumer Protection Act

Return of parts

61. (1) Every repairer shall offer to return to the consumer all parts removed in the course of work or repairs and shall return all such parts unless advised when the work or repairs are authorized that the consumer does not require their return. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 61 (1).

[DragonZealot]

Is this a VW? and what model / year?

[almostfreeman]

Is this a VW? and what model / year?

Not a VW , it's an Olds.

[sunnybono]

Is this a VW? and what model / year?

I was thinking the same thing:cheesygri :cheesygri :cheesygri :cheesygri

If I were you I would get a second opinion. I would definitely give David Reddinger a shout. He's the owner of Dr. H. This guy knows his stuff. In fact you can listen to his mechanic show on 1050 chum on Saturday at 9:am

sk

[sixer]

Is this a VW? and what model / year?

I thought it was a VW as well :lol:

[corrupt123]

Can you give us car details?

Have the connections been checked? Silly question, but I know for a fact that occasionally the battery terminals will become loose/corroded and the car wont respond when you turn the key. Then it might kick and crank once, wait another 10-15 seconds, then turn all the way over. It's really erratic. Basically, is there power when the car wont start? Do any lights come on?

[almostfreeman]

I thought it was a VW as well :lol:

I had a rabbit once, I get it :(

Can you give us car details?

Have the connections been checked? Silly question, but I know for a fact that occasionally the battery terminals will become loose/corroded and the car wont respond when you turn the key. Then it might kick and crank once, wait another 10-15 seconds, then turn all the way over. It's really erratic. Basically, is there power when the car wont start? Do any lights come on?

Ya I have power (can turn on the radio) but sometimes she just don't want to start. No response when I turn the key. :|

[dealhunting]

Intermittant problems are the hardest to diagnose. If the problem isn't happening at the time of diagnosis, then the tech has got to make an educated guess based on the symptoms you provided. The more detail you can provide, the better. Usually a lot of patience from the customer and the tech is required in these cases as well as a possibility of several visits to the shop before a solution is found. The problem you descirbe could be any number of possibilities. Starter, battery, bad electrical connections, bad relay, alarm system, imobilizer, ignition switch, netural saftey switch, bad fuse box, bad control module..........

The fact that he is willing to look at your car again at no extra cost is a good sign. I would see where that leads you before you start making any demands.

[DragonZealot]

If the problem is not readily reproducible it is not abnormal for the mechanic to take a guess and recommend the fix. However the mechanic should set up your expectation that this may or may not fix it and there is no refund.

Here are what I recommend:

1. Post the make / model / year and search to see if there are similar problems.

2. When it acts up turn on the dome light and put the key in start to see if the light die while key is in start position. It should dim a little but not die out. If the dome light die out this means the battery have a loose connection.

3. You (or your mechanic) would need the wiring diagram to trace if 12V is present in the starter motor, starter solenoid, start relay, start switch etc.

4. If 12V is present check if the starter motor has a rusted ground or clean (sand it down) anyways.


The problem with most mechanics is that they don't want to spend time to troubleshoot or diagnose. They just do a best effort guess cause they still get the money in replacing the parts whether it is the right one or not. Customer always has to pay.

[cOmAtOaSt]

Why would you even let the guys at the garage near your Johnson rod???