need advice on shop breaking my bumper - updated info

[contoursvt]

I posted this about 6 weeks back regarding a canadian tire breaking my bumper by accident - http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509435&highlight=broke+bumper

So it ended up that they agreed to either fix my bumper ('weld' it and then paint it) or get me a replacement bumper. They searched all over for an SVT front bumper with no luck. They asked if its ok for them to fix my existing and I said I'd really prefer a solid bumper instead of a patched up one becuase I'd be paranoid that it would split again down the same place it was fixed.

Since they couldnt find a new or used bumper after two weeks of looking, I looked around with the help of a friend and found one for sale on a contour board. Requested a picture from the seller (it was a small pic) and forwarded it to CT to look at. Guy said it was in decent shape except for some scratches and scuffs and some coolant stains. I asked if it had rips and he said no rips or tears or stuff like that. I spoke with the shop and gave them all the info given to me and mentioned that I dont know the seller and neither does my friend who sent the link and it just someone on the forums. I also didnt know any pricing info as it was not posted. They discussed for a couple days and came up with a price and shipping method. Problem arose with payment. Turns out the guy only took paypal and the shop didnt want to pay with paypal as they didnt have an account and had never tried it and were not sure if paypal as a payment method was safe or not. They asked me to buy it and they'd reimburse me the cost of that bumper and shipping. Sounded like an honest thing to ask as they had no paypal account so I purchased it and a week later it arrived at the shop.

The shop supposedly opened the box and the bumper was torn on one side. I never saw the box but CT says the shipping packaging was intact and to them it looks like the guy put a bad bumper in the box. The garage says we cant possibly pay for this bumper because its not going to be used no the car... its true, it would require more fixing than my existing broken bumper. They asked me to call him and find out what the deal was. I contacted the seller (even though it should have been CT calling at this poing) and asked about the rip. He assured me that the bumper had no tears when it went out. Scratches, scuffs and some flaking paint yes but no rips. Said to take it up with shipping because maybe its shipping damage. I dont understand after seeing the bumper, why they would have thrown the box away that evening. Oh ya I forgot to mention that. I went to see the bumper and they told me they accidentally threw the box away. Sounds a bit fishy and removes any chance of contacting shipping for claims with no box...wonderful.

So now I'm out the money for the bumper and the shipping cost. I had a long talk with the shop and the best they can do for me is cover half the price of the bumper and fix my existing one. Is this fair or am I still getting ripped off? I think the only mistake I made was agreeing to help the shop by using my paypal account because they didnt have paypal. I think the shop should cover the price of that bad bumper and still fix my existing bumper or even better yet to continue looking for a good bumper. All I did was provide them with a possible source for a bumper. It was their responsibility to talk to the seller and ensure its a good product, return policies, shipping options, insurance..etc. I told them I dont want to get involved in anything other than providing a possible source for a bumper since they were having trouble finding a bumper.

What would you guys do? PS. The bumper had to be shipped from Florida. The guy asked $350 for the used bumper and $170 to freight it up here. I'm out $520 if they dont cover the bumper at all or $260 if they cover half and fix my existing bumper.

Logically speaking, if they were willing to pay the $520 for a good bumper, then prep and paint it and mount it on my car, is that really that much less money than paying me the $520 anyway, fixing my exiting bumper, prepping and painting it and putting it back on the car? I'd guess it might cost them an extra $150-200 over just a prep and paint a used solid bumper. By the way, the guy I'm dealing with at the shop is not being a prick or anything but I think he's maybe being a bit cheap. I mean its not some tiny mom and pop shop. I could try and call their head office but I wanna give this manager at the place a chance.

PS here is the bumper I was shipped.

http://powerthings.com/pics/sucker.jpg

Btw anyone know if this kind of damage can still be fixed by an auto body place? The rip, the missing support tab and the slight crease in the side? Is it worth keeping this as a spare incase something bad happens to my current bumper again or is this pretty much garbage?

[ES_Revenge]

:(

I read the other thread... This unfortunately looks like a continuing nightmare for you First Canadian Tire busted up your car then someone ripped you off. :(

I guess when it rains it pours, as they say!

I was going to say that it could still be shipping damage if the box was intact, but then if you say there is a part broken off and missing (as in not in the sealed/undamaged box) then that cannot possibly be the case.

As you said it looks like your original bumper would be easier to fix than this one, but you'd be better off consulting some body shops regarding which one is easier to fix.

As for how to solve the larger problem, I really have no idea; I'm just glad I'm not in your shoes. :|

[jason9945]

Why the hell didnt you just buy a bumper from an auto body supplier?????

[jason9945]

!

[contoursvt]

The picture shows a regular non SVT bumper. Canadian tire called Ford as well as a ton of aftermarket and looks like nobody is making the SVT bumper anymore, just the GL and SE. I mean part numbers exist in catalogs and stuff but when they call the suppliers, they were told the SVT one is no longer in production. Guess its because its a low volume item.

[thephenom]

Ask for a full refund from the Florida guy for sending you a busted up bumper. If he doesn't like it, tell him he can deal with insurance from the shipper, but there's no way you're keeping a busted up bumper. File a complaint with PayPal, nothing will happen here, but might scare him enough to give some refund. If you paid him via Credit Card, call up your credit card company and tell them about this mail fraud. Don't let that crook slip away.

[jason9945]

The picture shows a regular non SVT bumper. Canadian tire called Ford as well as a ton of aftermarket and looks like nobody is making the SVT bumper anymore, just the GL and SE. I mean part numbers exist in catalogs and stuff but when they call the suppliers, they were told the SVT one is no longer in production. Guess its because its a low volume item.

Remind me not to post when I'm really tired?

If you paid via paypal go back on the doofus who sent you the broken bumper.

And dont let crappy tire off easy.

[contoursvt]

You know, calling the credit card company might be worthwhile, since paypal is tied to my CC so maybe they can do something too. The florida guy is sticking to his story that the bumper didnt go out damaged but no way it was shpping again due to the fact that the box was not banged up or anything. I'll talk to him tomorrow and tell him that all evidence points to him 'mis-shipping' the wrong bumper by accident. LOL. He probably slipped the broken one in there by accident and didnt notice. Regardless I'll try again and see if he'll take it back but I am sure he'll just stand his ground.


Ask for a full refund from the Florida guy for sending you a busted up bumper. If he doesn't like it, tell him he can deal with insurance from the shipper, but there's no way you're keeping a busted up bumper. File a complaint with PayPal, nothing will happen here, but might scare him enough to give some refund. If you paid him via Credit Card, call up your credit card company and tell them about this mail fraud. Don't let that crook slip away.

[thephenom]

You know, calling the credit card company might be worthwhile, since paypal is tied to my CC so maybe they can do something too. The florida guy is sticking to his story that the bumper didnt go out damaged but no way it was shpping again due to the fact that the box was not banged up or anything. I'll talk to him tomorrow and tell him that all evidence points to him 'mis-shipping' the wrong bumper by accident. LOL. He probably slipped the broken one in there by accident and didnt notice. Regardless I'll try again and see if he'll take it back but I am sure he'll just stand his ground.

The only way PayPal would act is if you tell your Credit Card company to withdraw the transaction. Then paypal would freak out on you for withdrawing payments, then you can tell them the other guy is committing mail fraud and let paypal deal with him.

If he insist that it's damaged during shipping (even though you know it wasn't), let him deal with shipping insurance, let him deal with the hassle. Tell him, he can ask the shipping company to come pick up the package for inspection and what not.

[Engi-Nir]

The picture shows a regular non SVT bumper. Canadian tire called Ford as well as a ton of aftermarket and looks like nobody is making the SVT bumper anymore, just the GL and SE. I mean part numbers exist in catalogs and stuff but when they call the suppliers, they were told the SVT one is no longer in production. Guess its because its a low volume item.

I might be off on this, but I remember we used to get orders for service parts(small production runs) by OEMS(ford,gm,etc), basically, all suppliers are to keep production tooling after a model year has be done with for about 10 yrs(if i remember right), and I saw some tooling from ford like 10yrs old and we were to honor their service part agreement. Hence, did you ask the Ford dealership to make that call for a service part? we were even told to set up tooling for 500 part run, pointless and very expensive for the OEM cause someone out their needed the part.

[contoursvt]

Well I just verified with a ford dealer that indeed, the SVT bumper is no longer and there is not one in stock anywhere on the planet. LOL. I mean LOL :(

I'm still unsure why I'm in this mess. If CT was initially prepared to buy a new bumper, prep and paint it, chances are it would still be somewhat expensive. They were 100% prepared to buy this used bumper and they made all the arrangements with the seller and the only reason they didnt go through with it was because they didnt have paypal and so they asked me. I asked if they can make an account and they said "well we cant really do that..blah blah blah, but if you buy it, we can reimurse your money". So pretty much they ok'd the purchase and came to me as a favor to speed things up and now I'm stuck with them saying they will cover only half. If they were 100% unsure of the seller, they should have told me that they would have to wait and find a better source.

To make things worse. Now they are saying "well we may not even have to paint the whole bumper because our guy is really good at blending..." I said I'd really want the bumper painted as I dont want one spot to be super clean and the others to have stone chips all over it because it would just look weird. He said "lets see what the paint guy says"

I will go talk to him tomorrow and state another case but worse case scenario I'll have to talk to the store manager instead of just the shop manager. Past that I dont know who I'd talk to. Its not my fault my bumper is busted in the first place. Maybe the store owner...:confused:

Anyway this all sucks. To make things worse this has been dragging for 6 weeks and the guy who shipped it (seller) is now becoming unavailable so it would be tough to try and get the shipping insurance involved because they'd want to talk to the person who arranged the shipping I'd assume.

This all sucks!

[contoursvt]

Ya I just confirmed with Paypal that they cannot do anything. I called Visa and they cant do anything either. I guess if I said this charge was one I didnt make but the seller would have proof that we conversed about doing the transaction...

To make matters worse, Canadian Tire threw away the packaging the night it arrived so I couldnt even take pics of the packaging. Shop manager says the box was not damaged but I at least need some photos or proof of something..anything. I have pics of the bumper and thats it. This part is not my fault either. Maybe I would have seen a crumple in the box that they missed.....



The only way PayPal would act is if you tell your Credit Card company to withdraw the transaction. Then paypal would freak out on you for withdrawing payments, then you can tell them the other guy is committing mail fraud and let paypal deal with him.

If he insist that it's damaged during shipping (even though you know it wasn't), let him deal with shipping insurance, let him deal with the hassle. Tell him, he can ask the shipping company to come pick up the package for inspection and what not.

[Polaren]

I would think the bumper you got from Florida would be a easier fix from the pictures, especially since where it is split will be almost hidden.

Also why didn't you check for aftermarket front bumpers? Like a body kit piece or such? I found a few for 98 Contours, and a SVT and Contour is the same for bumper placement/support.

Also if you want a opinion of a auto body place, I would recommend CFD Customs and ask for Danny - 4167490365. He has done some great work for myself and many others, just beautiful work. Anyways give him a shout if you want another opinion and see what he says.

[contoursvt]

Hi Polaren, I'll give Danny a call and see what he thinks I'll send him the pics too. The only thing about the bumper from florida was that one of the support tabs (on the damaged side of the bumper) is torn off. My car has a pair of rods that help structurally support the lower part of the bumper ...guess its there incase you're doing 145mph and dont want any flex :) Anyway it looks like its ripped off and I'm sure that wont be easy to put back. but really, I'm just guessing at this point.

PS. I appreciate you giving your friends number. I'll definitly give him a shout tomorrow.

[FD3S]

Hi Polaren, I'll give Danny a call and see what he thinks I'll send him the pics too. The only thing about the bumper from florida was that one of the support tabs (on the damaged side of the bumper) is torn off. My car has a pair of rods that help structurally support the lower part of the bumper ...guess its there incase you're doing 145mph and dont want any flex :) Anyway it looks like its ripped off and I'm sure that wont be easy to put back. but really, I'm just guessing at this point.

PS. I appreciate you giving your friends number. I'll definitly give him a shout tomorrow.


Feel sorry for bro.

But I believe that one support piece won't matter that much(flordia bumper).

Theses things are fragile anyways. I think you should have ask us for a GOOD body shop and had that bumper fiberglassed, and make CT pay for it.

It most likely would have cost-ed you around 500-600.

That was assuming you couldn't find a BN bumper, in this case, you really couldn't source one out.

[kleptodathief]

what shipping did u get it by? didn't u have to pay xtra brokerage/duties/fees? i'd NEVER buy body parts from the usa.. killer xtra fees and hi shipping!

[contoursvt]

Actually I didnt get involved in any of the bumper purchasing, pricing, shipping..etc. My friend found a link to a forum with a guy selling a used SVT bumper. I called Canadian Tire and said "here is some guy selling a bumper that I found...I know he's in the US but since you guys have not found anything here, maybe you can talk to this guy and see if its reasonable for you guys to buy it from the states".

I also said "I dont know the price and I really shouldnt be involved with any of the bargaining so I'll let you two do all the wheeling and dealing". The CT service manager called the guy and they discussed pricing, shipping..etc. I was not involved in any of that. I think it took them a couple days to come up with an agreement on price and shipping.

The only time I got involved is when they were arranging payment and CT guy found that it was paypal and said they cant do paypal because they have no account. I was asked if I can buy it then they will reimburse me when it arrives.

You'd think during all this time of wheeling and dealing and pricing, he would have asked questions like "if its broken, will you take it back"..."do you have detailed pictures other than the small picture you sent"..."would you mind if we somehow arrange for shipping via our own sources", "would you consider some kind of escrow service"... Some basic form of safeguarding what is THEIR purchase. Now they want to say that because I found the source, I'm somehow responsible for the guy sending a broken bumper (because they believe it was not damaged in shipping). They dont want to pay the amount because they said "what are we going to do with a broken bumper then". I dont really think this is my fault :(

By the way, did I mention that when I went to the store to see the bumper on the day I got called that they had already disposed of the box!!! How the hell does that work. Who receives a broken part and then gets rid of the box?? Thats insane. They said it got tossed by accident. Heck how can anyone even claim shipping damage (lets assume it was possible that it was) without the box? My only mistake was to accept paying by paypal because I thought I'd be helping them when they asked for my help. Who knew they purchased it blindly with no return assurance or anything. Its not like I knew the guy online and told them its a friend or anything. Uuugh.

I'm going tomorrow to talk to the store manager becuase the service manager was kind of implying that they cant cover all the price of the bumper. Also they say they cannot really warranty the repair either. Leads me to believe they have some dude in the back fixing it instead of sending it to a shop. A few times they said "maybe we dont even have to paint the whole bumper because the body guy is really good at blending". Sigh...

I wish I had the name of someone at CT head office that is reasonable because this story is getting more insane as it goes along. I have a feeling in the end, I will get screwed. I should have never ever offered to help. Should have said "I dont have paypal to help you guys out. Can you guys figure out an alternate payment method as its not really my problem".

Do you guys think it would be appropriate to talk to the store owner if the store manager doesnt understand my situation? Do people ever talk to store owners about problems or is it only the managers that handle issues?

I gotta go get a drink. I'm getting stressed just thinking of this.



what shipping did u get it by? didn't u have to pay xtra brokerage/duties/fees? i'd NEVER buy body parts from the usa.. killer xtra fees and hi shipping!

[jetway1212]

i feel you...

To be honest, dont stress yourself over this. I would accept the CT offers with a condition that the bumper will be sent out to a shop to fix and they have to show you the bill for it. CT dont do body works and CLEARLY emphasize it. So that means just accept the loss on half of that bumper you bought and forget about this. I hope that everything will work out for you.

[kleptodathief]

and NEXT TIME DO NOT GOTO CRAPPY TIRE FOR AUTO SERVICE!!!

[contoursvt]

and NEXT TIME DO NOT GOTO CRAPPY TIRE FOR AUTO SERVICE!!!


LOL yes that I've learned. I only went because my water pump belt had broken and they were only 500 meters away so I figured "fine...only a little job, they should be able to do it". They fixed the belt fine but of course tore the bumper.

[Polaren]

Any luck on the second opinion? :)

[contoursvt]

Spoke with the garage manager (or department manager) last night and I really was not making much progress. He said he understands my problem but he really cant do more and that he'll have to speak with the store manager on friday and see what can be done. I said I'd like to be there for that if possible. He said he'll speak to him and call me back. I said fine.

Later I thought I really should be there too, but I found out last night later on that I got called in for a double shift on friday so that would not be possible for me to do. I decided to go and speak with the store manager this morning and found had no idea about this whole mess I was in. I explained everything and he didnt disagree with anything I said. Didnt really say much, just listened. Said he's going to talk to the garage manager about this and call me back tomorrow. I also mentioned that I dont mean to be stepping over the garage manager or trying to get him into trouble and that I didnt have any other time to meet than today. Thanked him for his time and left. He seemed like a good guy, listened mostly. He was really young which was surprising. Maybe like early 20's.

Anyway I hope this gets resolved soon....

[contoursvt]

Its funny but I just called and left a message now. I want to have an idea incase CT doesnt want to do anything for me. If they give me the option to go to a shop and do it and they will cover that, then I need to talk to your buddy still. If they decided that I'm stuck with the bumper, then at least I should find out if I can get it repaired on my own dime - but of course I'd rather not do that because it shouldnt be my problem or fault... :)

Any luck on the second opinion? :)

[contoursvt]

Hmmm I was supposed to get a call yesterday (Friday) from the manager of the store. I called around 4pm and was told he already left. Wonder if I should go talk to them again or give them a couple more days time. I'm thinking I'll go into the store tomorrow and talk again to get it resolved.

[P90Puma]

The picture shows a regular non SVT bumper.

So, you were shipped a damaged non SVT bumper?

Call VISA and tell them to reverse the charges ASAP. Don't put up with any bs, you were a victim of fraud.

Paypal won't do anything to help you.

This is why you have to watch who you buy from on forums.

On most decent automotive forums, local guys from the scammer's area will help you out. Knocking on doors, and uhh sometimes a bit more then that.

[aquariaguy]

What did VISA say? I say call again, and get your money back from this prick. Tell VISA you were scammed and the CT guys will back you up. Get your money back for this bumper...

[contoursvt]

The bumper that was shipped to CT was an SVT bumper, but they said it had a tear in it when it arrived. The thing that makes me wonder tht maybe it was not actually shipped this way was this:

I get a call saying the bumper has arrived and for me to go take a look. I drive there 4 hours later with my camera and check it out. Indeed its ripped and all. I take pics. I ask for the boxes because I was going to take pics too and they said by accident they threw away the boxes. No way thats even possible IMO. Who in their right mind would unpack a bumper, see the damage and NOT put it back in the box and put it aside for claims or for the customer to see.

I think there is a chance the bumper got there a few days earlier, they took it out of the box and it was fine, then they threw the boxes thinking they dont need it. Couple days later they went to move the bumper and maybe dude grabbed it from one side and lifted it and it tore (assuming there was a hairline crack) and are saying it came torn that way.