Car wash services - are they worth it?

[noobienoob]

It's the winter time and I notice a lot of snow, dirty, and stuff piling up on my 07 car. I heard it's good to wash the car to keep the body of the car in good shape.

I'm not as inclined to get myself messy over doing a personal wash of the car so I would rather use a car wash service like Mr.Steam or Petro. Would you recommend these services in keeping the car clean and the body in good shape?

Thanks

[yugrus]

To me washing the car in winter is pointless. The roads are covered with salt, dry or wet, and you get your brine on your car right after you leave the carwash. Plus, however lightly, but the car wash impacts the paint.

So if you can stand the looks of your salt-covered car, don't wash it until spring. Unfortunately I can't... I wash it may be three times in winter, getting more and more convicted that it is useless.

[BartBandy]

Dirt holds moisture. Moisture causes rust.

I don't wash my car in the winter as often as I should, but after every big salting is a good idea.

[TenzoR]

I think regular car wash in gas station are good enough for winter as you mainly want to wash out the salt left on your car. A good under car spray is probably good every time after a big snow storm (when they salted the road)

[The_Professor]

I try and wash my car at least once every few weeks in winter. First off, I don't like all the crap sitting on my car, and second, i just hate the way it looks. I just check the weather and be sure not to wash it before any wet weather as that would be pointless.

[Atomic Chip]

To me washing the car in winter is pointless. The roads are covered with salt, dry or wet, and you get your brine on your car right after you leave the carwash.

So I guess there is no point in clean underwear every day, either. :rolleyes:

[Pete_Coach]

So I guess there is no point in clean underwear every day, either. :rolleyes:

How dumb, not even a good point here, your car in the same context as your personal hygiene. :confused:

As for car washes, I use the touchless wash systems in the winter to clean the underside of the car and to just get it looking reasonable. They are great in the winter. Ask for some car wash coupons for Christmas, or give some. They will always be used and appreciated.

[ES_Revenge]

How dumb, not even a good point here, your car in the same context as your personal hygiene. :confused:
LOL, perhaps... But saying not to wash your car in winter (because it's going to get dirty again :rolleyes: ) is some pretty bad advice...

[yugrus]

So I guess there is no point in clean underwear every day, either. :rolleyes:

Your guess, your choice. As long as it works for you...

Whatever floats your boat. You can wash your car three times a day, but as you leave the bay, the fresh salt from the road sticks to the wet underbody right away, and in ten minutes the car would not know a difference. The white powder that you see on the road in winter is not ice or snow, it is very fine salt. It stays on the road until spring when it gets washed away by the rain.
Where I live, in winter the city re-applies the salt after its layer gets below a couple of inches, it seems. It is better to keep the car as dry as possible and as cold as possible to inhibit corrosion. The wash does not help at all, other then helping you feel good...

[yugrus]

But saying not to wash your car in winter (because it's going to get dirty again :rolleyes: ) is some pretty bad advice...

I still fail to see a proof to the countrary. Care to elaborate?

[ES_Revenge]

I still fail to see a proof to the countrary. Care to elaborate?

If you fail to see "proof to the contrary" you just aren't looking. Instead of me provding "proof" of something that should be general common knowledge, why don't you provide any articles or data from reliable publications/sources that say washing the salt/dirt off your car in winter is a bad idea? Because I don't think I've ever read anything of that nature before. In fact a quick google search of "winter car wash" or "winter car washing" will net you tons of results. Going over the first few pages of results I really don't see any hit that doesn't say that you should wash your car in winter and wash it often, not leave it because it's going to get dirty again :rolleyes:

There may be people saying they don't wash their car in the winter but they're just like you--they really haven't got a clue. Again, find one article about car care from even a half-reliable source that cites not washing your car in winter being a positive step in car care.

Salt accelerates corrosion, plain and simple. Salt can't do anything to a painted/sealed metal surface, no, but any paint imperfections/scratches, even microscopic ones, on metal surfaces will corrode faster with salt + water sitting on it than not. Furthermore much of the underbody of a car is not painted or sealed metal meaning having the salt stay there throughout the winter will only result in increased chassis/component degredation and corrosion.

Saying something completely ridiculous and completely defying common sense is what needs the proof here, not generally accepted and endorsed car care principles. It's amazing I'm taking the time to argue this in the first place because it's really not worth it. Arguing common sense versus nonsense is really a waste of time.

[cipher]

To me washing the car in winter is pointless. The roads are covered with salt, dry or wet, and you get your brine on your car right after you leave the carwash. Plus, however lightly, but the car wash impacts the paint.

So if you can stand the looks of your salt-covered car, don't wash it until spring. Unfortunately I can't... I wash it may be three times in winter, getting more and more convicted that it is useless.

The problem with leaving the dirt on your car is that it's abrasive. So when you park your car and someone parks next to it and gets out and then rub against your car, it causes scratches in your paint. Scratch deep enough and that's where rust starts.

P.S. Do you brush your teeth daily? Why bother? Why not do it once a year?

[nolimtzel]

this is why gm and ford cars have so much problem....it all goes back to people leasing them and treating them like sht. so when the next person buys it they run into all these problems and blame it on the car.
most people who bought imports in the early 90s didnt lease them so they took care of it and hence never got problems so the car built up a solid rep.

[yugrus]

ES_Revenge, thank you very much for taking your time to explain me what a moron I am, sounds like doing it in circles really helps your point. Let's agree on that and move forward.
I ask you to provide a reply to seemingly easy question that you try to ignore. I'm not sure though if I provide it in easy enough way for you to understand, but I'll give it a chance.

When you wash your car and go home, and salt sticks back on the wet body, how is it better or different then before the wash?

Remember, the thickness of the salt layer does not matter; it takes a fine grain in the right spot to start corrosion. So how your washed car feels better picking up the salt back after 200m of driving? The rate of corrosion actually increases because it is a brine now instead of dry salt, and it is warm.

And dude, go educate yourself before you start talking about unprotected car underbody. Chassis- yes, but these are the parts that pick up fresh salt before anything else in the car. Making chassis parts wet does not help at all.

cipher, I agree with you. In environments with moderate or no salt usage it is much better to wash a car, winter or summer. And we don't even have to look into such extreme cases like yours. Although we should adhere to specific local conditions. You should think twice before washing your car if it is dry and salty outside.

[yugrus]

P.S. Do you brush your teeth daily? Why bother? Why not do it once a year?

Yes I am. Do you wash your car twice a day too? Why not?

[yugrus]

I just realized that we probably are talking about different issues here.
It is one thing to MAKE a car clean; another one is to KEEP it like this for any meaningful period of time to benefit from. My assertion is that although the former is not a problem at all, the later is impossible under typical Southern Ontario winter conditions.

[Atomic Chip]

Do you brush your teeth daily? Why bother? Why not do it once a year?

That was my point ... but Pete_Coach was too dopey to get it. :rolleyes:

[ES_Revenge]

ES_Revenge, thank you very much for taking your time to explain me what a moron I am, sounds like doing it in circles really helps your point. Let's agree on that and move forward.
Again more nonsense. I don't call names, you did that on your own.

I ask you to provide a reply to seemingly easy question that you try to ignore. I'm not sure though if I provide it in easy enough way for you to understand, but I'll give it a chance.
Uhh no that's not what you did. I didn't ignore anything I'm simply telling you that posting something that's based on nonsense and again unheard of in any publication about car care and then asking someone to reply with proof that widely exists everywhere and is otherwise common sense (not nonsense) is overall, a lot of nonsense.

So I don't know what there is left to understand. You state nonsense and ask for proof of something that isn't nonsense? Give me a break. Honestly this is again another ridiculous RFD moment.

As I said before there's always one to top the previous one.
In recent history the following nonsense has been stated:

"Corvettes can't handle"

"Buy a BMW M5 if you want a real muscle car"

and today we have:

"Don't wash your car because it will just get dirty again"

:rolleyes:

All from different posters... Absolutely amazing, the amount of nonsense that gets thrown around here.

Just like the Corvette guy, you insist on proof that disproves your own nonsensical statements instead of realising that the "proof" is widely available and otherwise well known by anyone that knows anything about the subject at hand; and, what really requires proof is the nonsense you're spewing.

BTW have I said the word nonsense enough yet? Because that's where this thread is heading thanks to someone.

Since you're one of the "here's some nonsense you disprove it with well-known facts" people, I'm just adding you to my ignore list and that, as they say, is that. Talk nonsense all you want, I'm not going to see it anymore--goodbye ;)

[yugrus]

Bye, tough pal. Enough nonsense already. Such a long post without a grain of factual material, just "nonsense", bolded and otherwise. I get that part, but is that the argument?
Ability to think and analyze regardless of the "common sense" applied in non-applicable situation helps a lot with overall survival skills.
Ignoring facts and people leads to a very healthy lifestyle!
:)

[marcsterr]

a little offtopic, but could anyone please suggest some car washes that do not have the rails other than sunoco, as my car can't seem to clear them :(

I know of the esso at woodbine and steeles, and the esso at leslie and lawrence..

I don't suppose anyone knows of any petro canada's that also have railess washes, as i have accumlated a lot of petro points.

thanks!!

[gman]

IMO, doing cash wash harm the car more. Your car picked up salt. The salt already did part of its chemical reaction before you wash your car. You wash car and then allow new salt to cover it. The cycle begins.

Which is worse?

1. you put salted snow on painted steel and leave it alone and let it freezes.
2. you put salted snow on painted steel. You clean it everyday with water and then cover it with brand new salted snow.

About moisture, washing it does not mean the car will be dry.

[Pete_Coach]

That was my point ... but Pete_Coach was too dopey to get it. :rolleyes:

Yup, me a dope, ahar ahar..., now two people analogizing personal hygiene to car washing and, I am the one who is dopey? :confused:

[JayTee1]

a little offtopic, but could anyone please suggest some car washes that do not have the rails other than sunoco, as my car can't seem to clear them :(

I know of the esso at woodbine and steeles, and the esso at leslie and lawrence..

I don't suppose anyone knows of any petro canada's that also have railess washes, as i have accumlated a lot of petro points.

thanks!!

What do you mean by the rails?
The one's where you put your car in neutral and they just guide your car through?

[marcsterr]

What do you mean by the rails?
The one's where you put your car in neutral and they just guide your car through?

yep!

i dont suppose you guys know of any rail-less ones that are in in north york/markham area?

[gman]

yep!

i dont suppose you guys know of any rail-less ones that are in in north york/markham area?

I think an Esso on McCowan and north of 16th is rail-less. That is you drive your car in, park and the machine moves around you, right?

[Robmic]

Wow I'm just a newbie around here but the whole -- don't wash your car in the winter is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

It come down to one simple point.

Every time you wash the car -- it takes TIME for the same quantity of salt to build up again -- ergo-- less time there is a LARGE QUANTITY of salt on the vehicle. and consequently the more salt on the car the more nooks and crannies it will work itself into and the more rust will be caused.

I can see not washing it daily after a major snow -- but to not wash it all is lazy and negligent.

[gman]

Wow I'm just a newbie around here but the whole -- don't wash your car in the winter is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

It come down to one simple point.

Every time you wash the car -- it takes TIME for the same quantity of salt to build up again -- ergo-- less time there is a LARGE QUANTITY of salt on the vehicle. and consequently the more salt on the car the more nooks and crannies it will work itself into and the more rust will be caused.

I can see not washing it daily after a major snow -- but to not wash it all is lazy and negligent.

Well, it does not really matter how much salt built up on the car. What it matters is how much salt is touching the paint/coating of the steel. There is not much difference between large quantity or small quantity. What is matter is quantity that is touching the paint/coating. After you wash your car, how many days will it last before it is coated by a fresh thin layer of salt? One day? Two days?

Now, back to my un-scientific experience, I used to wash my car very often many years ago for the sake of "better" for the car like most people. Yes, I was young too. Well, that car rusted in less than 7 years and that car had extra rust protection. I now have a 7 years car and that did not have any rust protection besides the standard stuff came with it. My neighbour has a 6 years old Honda.

I did not wash any of my cars in winter in the past 12 years unless the dirt would make my clothes or my guests' clothes dirty. That is I will wash it for the sake of 'me' instead of my car. My neighbour washes his car when there is sunny day in winter. There is no rust in my 7 years old so far and the garage confirmed that the bottom of my car is still good including the exhaust. The paint is still bright and not dull after a clean wash in summer. I did not purchase any paint protection or waxed my car. My neighbour's 6 years old Honda has rust already and he replaced his exhaust once because of the rust. My sister's car was even worse and she purchased a stack of car wash coupons every winter and washed even more. Her car rusted in 4 years.

[baboo]

sort of off-topic...

I also heard that it is actually better to leave the car out in the driveway under sub-zero temperature instead of in the garage where ice started to melt and create more moisture....Is that true?...

I actually never thought about the rusting of a car......I think modern cars can last at least 10 years without substantial rusting...and I don't see myself driving my car for more than 10 years....:D

[gman]

sort of off-topic...

I also heard that it is actually better to leave the car out in the driveway under sub-zero temperature instead of in the garage where ice started to melt and create more moisture....Is that true?...

I actually never thought about the rusting of a car......I think modern cars can last at least 10 years without substantial rusting...and I don't see myself driving my car for more than 10 years....:D

The colder the less chemical reaction.

[Robmic]

Well, it does not really matter how much salt built up on the car. What it matters is how much salt is touching the paint/coating of the steel. There is not much difference between large quantity or small quantity. What is matter is quantity that is touching the paint/coating. After you wash your car, how many days will it last before it is coated by a fresh thin layer of salt? One day? Two days?

Now, back to my un-scientific experience, I used to wash my car very often many years ago for the sake of "better" for the car like most people. Yes, I was young too. Well, that car rusted in less than 7 years and that car had extra rust protection. I now have a 7 years car and that did not have any rust protection besides the standard stuff came with it. My neighbour has a 6 years old Honda.

I did not wash any of my cars in winter in the past 12 years unless the dirt would make my clothes or my guests' clothes dirty. That is I will wash it for the sake of 'me' instead of my car. My neighbour washes his car when there is sunny day in winter. There is no rust in my 7 years old so far and the garage confirmed that the bottom of my car is still good including the exhaust. The paint is still bright and not dull after a clean wash in summer. I did not purchase any paint protection or waxed my car. My neighbour's 6 years old Honda has rust already and he replaced his exhaust once because of the rust. My sister's car was even worse and she purchased a stack of car wash coupons every winter and washed even more. Her car rusted in 4 years.

Wow what a waste of typing on an example that doesn't mean anything. :cheesygri

Anyhoo.... even by your logic your car is salt free for a couple of days after a wash -- that's 2 or 3 days WITHOUT salt on it where rust won't be accelerating.

and the quantity of salt DOES indeed have a LOT to do with it.

1. The more salt on the surface... the more likely it will work it's way into nooks and crannies- scratches and nicks in the paint and into places where it is harder to get it out of in the frame, body, unibody.

2. the more salt on the surface... the stronger and more lengthened the chemical reaction on the car will be

If I put 10 ounces of battery acid on your arm it will do more damage than 1 ounce will.

[JayTee1]

yep!

i dont suppose you guys know of any rail-less ones that are in in north york/markham area?

I've only been to 1 car wash place, so far.

The Shell @ Rutherford and Creditstone (Rutherford and Jane) area is rail-less.
Also. The Sunoco ones around the Rutherford and Dufferin area should be rail-less as well.

Maybe it's a standard for all "new" Shell's to be rail-less.

Check it out.

[professionaldude]

I probably do CAR Wash ONCE a Month or so in WINTER.
I think It's pointless to go for CAR WASH in Winter.

[canadiandollars]

I wash my car about once every two weeks. I think it's worth it to make it look good.

[bembol]

No, they are NOT worth it. I never play for them either, I use AirMiles or Esso Points.

Esso's Touchless Car Wash is the worst IMO.

I like Shell, especially the 403 & Dundas by Best Buy.

[marcsterr]

I've only been to 1 car wash place, so far.

The Shell @ Rutherford and Creditstone (Rutherford and Jane) area is rail-less.
Also. The Sunoco ones around the Rutherford and Dufferin area should be rail-less as well.

Maybe it's a standard for all "new" Shell's to be rail-less.

Check it out.

will do..thanks for the headsup! :)

[BMWWW]

IMO, doing cash wash harm the car more. Your car picked up salt. The salt already did part of its chemical reaction before you wash your car. You wash car and then allow new salt to cover it. The cycle begins.

Which is worse?

1. you put salted snow on painted steel and leave it alone and let it freezes.
2. you put salted snow on painted steel. You clean it everyday with water and then cover it with brand new salted snow.

About moisture, washing it does not mean the car will be dry.

Actually, I'm not 100% sure, but I've read an article in the past stating that the negative affects don't initiate until the weather's hovering around above freezing point.

I'll put a few minutes into research on autopia. I'll keep you ladies posted.:-0

[BMWWW]

Cliffnotes: WASH YOUR CAR

Straight from the professionals that charge $400+ per detail.

All the above opinions can all be disregarded, as they all have no merit. Keep in mind many of the following people do this for a living, and their info is usually based on people with a little more know-how then the average joe.

Good info:
http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/51821-how-bad-winter-salt-cars.html?highlight=winter+salt

[bobbings]

all i can say is: not worth it today.

[canadiandollars]

all i can say is: not worth it today.

but worth it tomorrow? :confused: :lol:

[Prince15]

a little offtopic, but could anyone please suggest some car washes that do not have the rails other than sunoco, as my car can't seem to clear them :(

I know of the esso at woodbine and steeles, and the esso at leslie and lawrence..

I don't suppose anyone knows of any petro canada's that also have railess washes, as i have accumlated a lot of petro points.

thanks!!

I think an Esso on McCowan and north of 16th is rail-less. That is you drive your car in, park and the machine moves around you, right?

Yeah that one is like 2 mins from my house, you drive through an open area, but the POS wash does not clean yours rims properly, so you will have to do that yourself.

Skipping by the argument whether you should wash or not, if you do choose to wash (which imo just feels better than leaving that crap on your car), there will be days during winter where we will have "nice" weather. They won't come often, but there will be days like that where you can take your car to a coin-garage and blast that ish off.

[alanbrenton]

Well, it does not really matter how much salt built up on the car. What it matters is how much salt is touching the paint/coating of the steel. There is not much difference between large quantity or small quantity. What is matter is quantity that is touching the paint/coating. After you wash your car, how many days will it last before it is coated by a fresh thin layer of salt? One day? Two days?

Now, back to my un-scientific experience, I used to wash my car very often many years ago for the sake of "better" for the car like most people. Yes, I was young too. Well, that car rusted in less than 7 years and that car had extra rust protection. I now have a 7 years car and that did not have any rust protection besides the standard stuff came with it. My neighbour has a 6 years old Honda.

I did not wash any of my cars in winter in the past 12 years unless the dirt would make my clothes or my guests' clothes dirty. That is I will wash it for the sake of 'me' instead of my car. My neighbour washes his car when there is sunny day in winter. There is no rust in my 7 years old so far and the garage confirmed that the bottom of my car is still good including the exhaust. The paint is still bright and not dull after a clean wash in summer. I did not purchase any paint protection or waxed my car. My neighbour's 6 years old Honda has rust already and he replaced his exhaust once because of the rust. My sister's car was even worse and she purchased a stack of car wash coupons every winter and washed even more. Her car rusted in 4 years.

No offense to gman, but could anyone confirm this, specifically his first paragraph? I do understand his point and I do want to know about how/when this chemical catalysis (rust or pre-rust if there is such a thing or if it's straight FeO2) actually start? Is it upon salt's first contact with a metal part or does heat and moisture have to come into play?

If it's the latter, then gman does strike up a good point as the extra layer of salt will provide a barrier against the moisture and additional salt combination. A related question is whether this initial layer of salt retains it's chemical composition or will it have turned into some other substance after contact with the metal components?

I have tried googling the answer but most talk about rust formation above a certain temperature but discuss nothing about whether it is a good idea to allow this extra layer of salt to build up. Most talk about washing the underchassis weekly but doesn't take gman's thought process (initial layer) into consideration.

[weedb0y]

this is why gm and ford cars have so much problem....it all goes back to people leasing them and treating them like sht. so when the next person buys it they run into all these problems and blame it on the car.
most people who bought imports in the early 90s didnt lease them so they took care of it and hence never got problems so the car built up a solid rep.

That does make sense.

[boyoflondon]

I still fail to see a proof to the countrary. Care to elaborate?

then you fail in life/advice giving!


ps. every car enthusiast you come across will tell you to wash your car at least once a week during winter months.

Now it is up to you weather or not you wan to take that advice.



/thread

[Tomy]

Cliffnotes: WASH YOUR CAR

Straight from the professionals that charge $400+ per detail.

All the above opinions can all be disregarded, as they all have no merit. Keep in mind many of the following people do this for a living, and their info is usually based on people with a little more know-how then the average joe.

Good info:
http://autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/51821-how-bad-winter-salt-cars.html?highlight=winter+salt

stop arguing and start reading. gj bmwwwwww

[Azxster]

I use mid grade car wash (whatever is cheapest to get underspray)...

Leaving your car dirty increases chances of scratches as people brush their jacket against cars.