The OFFICIAL Hardwood Flooring Thread

[patrob]

I thought I would start The OFFICIAL Hardwood Flooring Thread, since there are many people always asking for hardwood flooring advice/help.

Since I have knowledge on the topic, just ask away if you have any specific questions ;)

[AzN_RiverdaleCI]

I though I would start an official hardwood flooring thread, since there are many people always asking for hardwood flooring advice/help.

Since I have knowledge on the topic, just ask away if you have any specific questions ;)

which hardwood flooring specialists would you recommend?
Also, did you borrow the idea of naming your threads from my other official threads in other subforums? thanks in advance.

[patrob]

Also, did you borrow the idea of naming your threads from my other official threads in other subforums? thanks in advance.

I did not realize the ''official thread naming' belonged to you only :lol:

What are you looking to have done?

[AzN_RiverdaleCI]

living room

[leafs]

I am looking to get the following hardwood installed in my new home. I couldn't bring myself to pay the builder what they were asking. Do you know where I can get the best deal on the this flooring? Also a reliable installer at a good price?

http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/elegants_erable_sierra.html

[kaos25000]

Thanks a lot Patrob :)

A few simple questions to start:

Is it better to glue or nail a hardwood floor ? Which one is more costly ?

Is hardwood thickness important and what will it impact (noise, cost, resistance to dilatation/contraction) ?

Would you recommend "engineered" hardwood ?

[patrob]

I am looking to get the following hardwood installed in my new home. I couldn't bring myself to pay the builder what they were asking. Do you know where I can get the best deal on the this flooring? Also a reliable installer at a good price?

http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/elegants_erable_sierra.html

The best place to get Mirage floors is at Darmaga.com. They are the biggest Mirage dealer & very reputable.

Talk to them about the price of the wood first & ask how much for installation...& then you can get back to me & I can recommend someone if you want.

[patrob]

A few simple questions to start:

Is it better to glue or nail a hardwood floor ? Which one is more costly ?

Is hardwood thickness important and what will it impact (noise, cost, resistance to dilatation/contraction) ?

Would you recommend "engineered" hardwood ?

On a wooden sub-floor, you nail. On concrete with no sub-floor you glue down or float. Or you build a sub-floor & you nail.

Yes, thickness is important in solid hardwood. I also recommend engineered even though the price is slightly higher. The floor is more stable & every board is milled perfectly straight.

[Daboss]

I am looking to purchase about 1000 SF of Brazilian Jatoba hardwood flooring (stained). I have a few price quotes from various suppliers, but was wondering what other people on the forum have paid their Jatoba for. Any feedback would be great!

[patrob]

I am looking to purchase about 1000 SF of Brazilian Jatoba hardwood flooring (stained). I have a few price quotes from various suppliers, but was wondering what other people on the forum have paid their Jatoba for. Any feedback would be great!

You can buy Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) from China for about $4 ft. Or you can get good quality Jatoba for $7 plus...

[SMC23]

Can one put hardwood over directly over parquet flooring?

[jl001]

How much do installers usually charge?
Does their price include removing old flooring (ie. carpet) and baseboards?
I guess moving the furnitures are homeowner's job...
Do baseboards need to be replaced if hardwood is installed?

[patrob]

Can one put hardwood over directly over parquet flooring?

Yes you can as long as there are no parquet pieces loose/popping up. You will also loose your manufacturer's warranty on the wood, since they do not recommend installing over an old flooring. You will also height difference from your tiles to wood floors, but that can be solved with reducers.

[patrob]

How much do installers usually charge?
Does their price include removing old flooring (ie. carpet) and baseboards?
I guess moving the furnitures are homeowner's job...
Do baseboards need to be replaced if hardwood is installed?

Installation depends on what is being done...but usually if straight installation, it should be around $2 sq. ft.

The price does not include old flooring removal or baseboards. This is usually quoted as an extra. Yes, moving furniture usually is done by the owner but if it's something small, then I see no problem but that can be discussed when being quoted...just don't ask for a piano to be moved:D You can re-use your old baseboards but need to add quarter round.

[buyways]

We just bought a place from lady with a standard poodle who did a number with his claws on the hardwood floors (floor age unknown, house is 100 years old).

Is there some polishing/cleaner-type product you would recommend, or am I likely to need to sand?

If I do decide to sand, how strong/coordinated do I need to be to handle one of those monsters I've seen on TV? (bad images of me taking out walls, flying out front door into traffic, etc)

Is there a refinishing company you recommend for the GTA?

thanks!

[patrob]

We just bought a place from lady with a standard poodle who did a number with his claws on the hardwood floors (floor age unknown, house is 100 years old).

Is there some polishing/cleaner-type product you would recommend, or am I likely to need to sand?

If I do decide to sand, how strong/coordinated do I need to be to handle one of those monsters I've seen on TV? (bad images of me taking out walls, flying out front door into traffic, etc)

Is there a refinishing company you recommend for the GTA?


More likely you have to sand, since nothing will cover scratches. If you never touched a floor sander, then don't do it yourself. You can cause yourself & the floors a lot of damage, including your walls:lol:

Where are you located & what kind of floors do you have:?:

[frogger]

Nice thread

Is there a good spot in the West GTA for seeing a good selection of engineered hardwood floors?

[patrob]

Nice thread

Is there a good spot in the West GTA for seeing a good selection of engineered hardwood floors?

Thanks :)

For engineered try these two places, they have some areas of the showroom done in real engineered hardwood, so you can see it in real life.

www.Stansflooring.com

[belfour]

We have this T moulding which was put in after hardwood floors were done (installer pretend to not know what it was when we went and asked why the carpet - hardwood floor had no transition - they offered to sand down the end of the hardwood floor to 'make it smooth' :!: - we refused)

Later they finally got the T moulding, but now had to be nailed from the top in between the floors, but in 2 pieces since one piece could not be spanned across the whole length.

(top view)

carpet
_______ __

floor

line represents the t moulding.
problem now is that the moulding (1st piece) has popped out (indicated by the space), and it has split from at T section underneath.



Can I just renail that in or should I apply some kind of adhesive underneath the broken off piece.. then fill poxy for the gap of the 2 pieces?


Thanks

[mrvedder]

hi patrob,

my wife and I just bought a new home from plans and the builder wants to charge us between $14-$17 /sq.ft. to install 3 1/4" x 3/4" Mirage planks.

If you were in our shoes, would you have the builder install standard carpet and then rip it out to install the Mirage flooring by a third party or is it worth the convenience to have the builder install it at that price?

The rooms are standard straight edge rooms but I'm thinking that at the very most, I'd have them do the upper hallway as well as stain the oak stairs to match. What do you think?

Great topic! (and timely too!)

mrvedder

[patrob]

Can I just renail that in or should I apply some kind of adhesive underneath the broken off piece.. then fill poxy for the gap of the 2 pieces?


Yes, use glue & then nail. But pre-drill before the nail goes in if you are doing it by hand. Use coulour matching filler (HD sells them) to fill in the gap.

[patrob]

my wife and I just bought a new home from plans and the builder wants to charge us between $14-$17 /sq.ft. to install 3 1/4" x 3/4" Mirage planks.

If you were in our shoes, would you have the builder install standard carpet and then rip it out to install the Mirage flooring by a third party or is it worth the convenience to have the builder install it at that price?

The rooms are standard straight edge rooms but I'm thinking that at the very most, I'd have them do the upper hallway as well as stain the oak stairs to match. What do you think?

Great topic! (and timely too!)


Don't go through the builder if you can, you can save yourself lots of money this way. Just take standard carpets & you take them out after closing & can re-use them in the basement if you want.

It's too much money IMO to pay for that convenience, unless you're rich of course:D

If you know what type of stain colour you want to get, just ask the builder to stain stairs in that colour & then you just match the floors to it with no problems, even if you go to a diff. manufacturer, they often have similar colours.

[leafs]

Hey mrvedder,

Are you buying a Baywood home as well? I am in the exact same dilemma. Do I pay the outrageous price they are asking? Or just rip up the carpet and put it in my basement and pay someone after the fact. My concerns are.

1.Will the wood floor and tile be flush or one higher than the other?
2. We are getting the builder to install maple stairs with a runner. If we get someone to install wood floors after the fact are they going to be able to install them alongside the wood stair case at the top and bottom of the stairs and have them fit perfectly? We have already paid for the nosing on the upper part of the stairs in anticipation of having someone install it after the fact.
3. We have paid for an upgraded baseboards should I have the builder not install them and then install them after the wood floors are in? Does that matter?

Are there any other concerns I need to think about? Is there really an advantage to having the builder install the wood flooring versus a contractor? Warranty possibly?

I am getting the Maple Sierra from Mirage flooring

[patrob]

1.Will the wood floor and tile be flush or one higher than the other?
2. We are getting the builder to install maple stairs with a runner. If we get someone to install wood floors after the fact are they going to be able to install them alongside the wood stair case at the top and bottom of the stairs and have them fit perfectly? We have already paid for the nosing on the upper part of the stairs in anticipation of having someone install it after the fact.
3. We have paid for an upgraded baseboards should I have the builder not install them and then install them after the wood floors are in? Does that matter?

Are there any other concerns I need to think about? Is there really an advantage to having the builder install the wood flooring versus a contractor? Warranty possibly?

I am getting the Maple Sierra from Mirage flooring

Let me answer some of you questions:

1. Even if you take hardwood from the builder, tile guys will install tiles their way regardless if you have hardwood or carpet. So no matter who does the wood floors, they will have to use a reducer to make it flush.
2. Yes, no problems everything will be perfectly flush to the stairs & nosings.
3. The trim installers will be installing the baseboards before any flooring is done & they usually leave a 1/2" gap from the plywood, unless you specifically tell them to make it higher. Since they don't know if you will have hardwood or carpet they have to leave a min. space & the max. you would loose on your baseboards is 1/4".

The biggest advantage of doing floors with the builder is the convenience & people feel 'safe' that there is warranty. But if you get a good installer & good wood, there should not be any problems. And even if you have to replace a board or two, the installer will come back & fix it.

But be careful who you choose, since there are some that don't care about the quality of the workmanship, that just want to make a quick buck & leave quick:idea: If you need a recommendation, let me know ;)

[mrvedder]

Hey mrvedder,

Are you buying a Baywood home as well? I am in the exact same dilemma. Do I pay the outrageous price they are asking? Or just rip up the carpet and put it in my basement and pay someone after the fact. My concerns are.

1.Will the wood floor and tile be flush or one higher than the other?
2. We are getting the builder to install maple stairs with a runner. If we get someone to install wood floors after the fact are they going to be able to install them alongside the wood stair case at the top and bottom of the stairs and have them fit perfectly? We have already paid for the nosing on the upper part of the stairs in anticipation of having someone install it after the fact.
3. We have paid for an upgraded baseboards should I have the builder not install them and then install them after the wood floors are in? Does that matter?

Are there any other concerns I need to think about? Is there really an advantage to having the builder install the wood flooring versus a contractor? Warranty possibly?

I am getting the Maple Sierra from Mirage flooring

Hi leafs,

We're buying a Great Gulf home but I'll bet you and I are not the only ones thinking this way. I'm definitely getting the oak staircase with runner from the builder and they use Mirage as their hardwood upgrade so I'm also fighting with the idea that I pay them to put in the upper hallway hardwood - that way, I can get my own installer to put in the same Mirage hardwood downstairs in the "regular" shaped rooms - my upper hallway is neither straight nor regular.

My next steps are to check out Darmaga for Mirage h/w pricing and ballpark installation at $2/sq.ft.

[B0000rt]

When refinishing an old Oak floor, is it necessary to remove all the old material?

Like the nooks and crannies when dealing with an old floor?

[patrob]

When refinishing an old Oak floor, is it necessary to remove all the old material?

Like the nooks and crannies when dealing with an old floor?

When refinishing floors, 100% of old varnish has to be removed to ensure proper adhesion of the new varnish.

[buyways]

More likely you have to sand, since nothing will cover scratches. If you never touched a floor sander, then don't do it yourself. You can cause yourself & the floors a lot of damage, including your walls:lol:

Where are you located & what kind of floors do you have:?:

Thanks for the advice!

High potential for damage you say - that's what I was afraid of. Guess I'll have to vent my pent up reno urges elsewhere.

I'm located in Leslieville in the GTA, and I don't know what floors I have (I can almost tell you more about the specs of the $100 mp3 player I bought last month than the $400,000 house - I think I read the average buyer spends 18 minutes in a house before buying it - crazy markets!).

I'm pretty sure they're actually wood, not laminate, and not pine, or at least not pine subflooring as we saw in some houses (though that's nice too).

A picture of the floor is here, if it helps:
http://www.imagehosting.com/show.php/1435601_diningroom500.jpg.html

[patrob]

I'm pretty sure they're actually wood, not laminate, and not pine, or at least not pine subflooring as we saw in some houses (though that's nice too).

A picture of the floor is here, if it helps:
http://www.imagehosting.com/show.php/1435601_diningroom500.jpg.html

From the pic it looks like red oak in a rich oak (gunstock) finish. If you can zoom in on the actual floor & make it larger, then I can see it better.

For sure it's real wood not laminate...

[bacid1]

foresbec , how are their hardwood floor products?

satin finish , i hear it's one of the best, true? false?

BTW. roughly how much does it cost per sqft to refinish old site-finished hardwood?

thanks!

[patrob]

foresbec , how are their hardwood floor products?

satin finish , i hear it's one of the best, true? false?

BTW. roughly how much does it cost per sqft to refinish old site-finished hardwood?


Foresbec - not familiar with that product at all...where did you see it?

Satin Finish - who told you that:rolleyes: It's not true, it is a good product but it's not the best.

To re-finish floors in natural colour it's around $2 plus per sq. ft. If stained add extra $.50 plus (depends on wood & colour) extra for additional finish coat (standard is 2 coats)

[stealth]

What direction is correct for laying hardwood strip flooring in an upstairs hallway that goes in an "L" shape (so as not to have a pronounced ladder effect)? Or is the only solution to add another layer of subfloor so you can lay the flooring in parallel to the joists?

Also, when nailing hardwood I invariably scuff the wall with the mallet used on the flooring nailer. Is there anything that will remove these black rubber marks?

[patrob]

What direction is correct for laying hardwood strip flooring in an upstairs hallway that goes in an "L" shape (so as not to have a pronounced ladder effect)? Or is the only solution to add another layer of subfloor so you can lay the flooring in parallel to the joists?

Also, when nailing hardwood I invariably scuff the wall with the mallet used on the flooring nailer. Is there anything that will remove these black rubber marks?

Your floor is supposed to be installed across the joist. Properly installing a 5/8" ply will resolve your problem but create another with trim, nosings, doors & thresholds.

Also, that's why you use a white rubber mallet to avoid the black rubber marks;) Wash it off as much as you can & touch up with paint. If it doesn't help, re-paint the whole wall.

[stealth]

Your floor is supposed to be installed across the joist. Properly installing a 5/8" ply will resolve your problem but create another with trim, nosings, doors & thresholds.

Also, that's why you use a white rubber mallet to avoid the black rubber marks;) Wash it off as much as you can & touch up with paint. If it doesn't help, re-paint the whole wall.

Thanks, so what do the pro's do usually in these cases?

[patrob]

Thanks, so what do the pro's do usually in these cases?

The pros install it with the joist. Only if the customer really insists to have the wood installed in another direction, then you add plywood.

Hope this helps :)

[kalkama]

I purchased my Red Oak hardwood from a flooring auction in Brampton, however it seems to go every quarter around various locations. It cost me $3.50 approx including all taxes etc. More info can be found at http://www.principalliquidators.com/hwoodupcoming.htm. The only thing I didnt like was the 15% buyer premium but even after that I saved close to 1.50-$2/ sq foot.

[patrob]

... however it seems to go every quarter around various locations.

Not sure I understand :confused:

[kalkama]

I meant every 2-3 months at various locations. Please check the link for details.

[patrob]

I meant every 2-3 months at various locations. Please check the link for details.

I would tell everyone to beware of liquidation places, you never really know what you are getting. How the wood was stored, where it comes from, what the humidity level is at the warehouse. They just sell by the bulk & I doubt they really care about proper storage of wood. Good luck with the manufacturer warranty if you finish starts to peel off:rolleyes:

There's a saying - you get what you pay for :|

[kalkama]

I would agree to that, and I was quite impulsive to buy it since I have limited knowledge of hard wood. After showing to couple of contractors they did say that quality is not bad and after installation for close to 1.5 month haven't seen anything notcieable either.

[patrob]

I would agree to that, and I was quite impulsive to buy it since I have limited knowledge of hard wood. After showing to couple of contractors they did say that quality is not bad and after installation for close to 1.5 month haven't seen anything notcieable either.

Consider yourself very lucky that there were no major problems with your floors...

Not all are bad, just lower grade & sometimes it's a risk you take, buying this way.

[stealth]

The pros install it with the joist. Only if the customer really insists to have the wood installed in another direction, then you add plywood.

Hope this helps :)

Thanks. So, you're saying just live with the ladder effect in part of the hall?
As long as thats standard practice, I guess I'm ok with it. I just was afraid of doing that and have some wiseass come over and say that it looks "amateur".

Out of curiosity, if I went parallel with the joists in part of the L shaped hallway (about 4ft wide x 15ft long) so as to avoid the ladder effect, how bad would the squeaking be (or other downside to this sort of installation)? Would gluing AND nailing help minimize any issues for this small area (without adding more subfloor)?

[stealth]

I would tell everyone to beware of liquidation places, you never really know what you are getting. How the wood was stored, where it comes from, what the humidity level is at the warehouse. They just sell by the bulk & I doubt they really care about proper storage of wood. Good luck with the manufacturer warranty if you finish starts to peel off:rolleyes:

There's a saying - you get what you pay for :|

Unfortunately, we all know how often manufacturers, retailers, etc. take advantage of this adage, making it hard for the consumer to really know if they're getting what they paid for, or just being had. Thus, we have great forums and threads such as this one. Thanks again for the time and effort you put into this thread.

[patrob]

Out of curiosity, if I went parallel with the joists in part of the L shaped hallway (about 4ft wide x 15ft long) so as to avoid the ladder effect, how bad would the squeaking be (or other downside to this sort of installation)? Would gluing AND nailing help minimize any issues for this small area (without adding more subfloor)?

There should not be any squeaks, doesn't matter what direction you go with. How old is the house & is the sub-floor screwed to the joist? Is the sub-floor 5/8" ply or chipboard? Are the joist TGI or regular?

If the sub-floors are solid, then the floors will be solid. You can install it with the joist, since it's a small area. There is no need to use glue.

[patrob]

Thus, we have great forums and threads such as this one. Thanks again for the time and effort you put into this thread.

Exactly ;) That's why I created this thread, so I could help people who have these type of questions & are new at this hardwood stuff :) Plus if anyone is looking for a great hardwood installer in GTA, let me know:lol:

[stealth]

There should not be any squeaks, doesn't matter what direction you go with. How old is the house & is the sub-floor screwed to the joist? Is the sub-floor 5/8" ply or chipboard? Are the joist TGI or regular?

If the sub-floors are solid, then the floors will be solid. You can install it with the joist, since it's a small area. There is no need to use glue.

The house was built between '75-77. I cant see the joists on this level due to the ceiling below (but the ones in the basement are 8" 16" on center). Plywood floor, nailed, but I always add flooring screws every 6-8" before putting down hardwood anyways). I'll make sure I take out most if not all of the squeaks.
So if I go in the "long" directions of the "L" shape (one side parallel to the joists, the other side perpendicular), do you usually start off where the 2 directions meet and go outwards (so you can join the directions using the end tongue/groove), or do you start at the ends and work your way in, perhaps to a mitred corner?

[stealth]

Exactly ;) That's why I created this thread, so I could help people who have these type of questions & are new at this hardwood stuff :) Plus if anyone is looking for a great hardwood installer in GTA, let me know:lol:

That is good too know. I wish there were more ways on RFD to know which members have skilled services to offer the membership.
In our case, although I intend to do the entire upstairs flooring in hardwood myself, our downstairs flooring needs to be sanded, stained a darker color and of course varnished, and for that I'd prob give you a call for a quote, most likely in the spring.

[patrob]

The house was built between '75-77. I cant see the joists on this level due to the ceiling below (but the ones in the basement are 8" 16" on center). Plywood floor, nailed, but I always add flooring screws every 6-8" before putting down hardwood anyways). I'll make sure I take out most if not all of the squeaks.
So if I go in the "long" directions of the "L" shape (one side parallel to the joists, the other side perpendicular), do you usually start off where the 2 directions meet and go outwards (so you can join the directions using the end tongue/groove), or do you start at the ends and work your way in, perhaps to a mitred corner?

You usually start either with the stairs nosing (if joist are going the other direction) or if the nosing is parallel to joist, then you would start with the master bedroom doors with a full board or any other location that you may want to choose. It's really a visual thing.

That is good too know. I wish there were more ways on RFD to know which members have skilled services to offer the membership.
In our case, although I intend to do the entire upstairs flooring in hardwood myself, our downstairs flooring needs to be sanded, stained a darker color and of course varnished, and for that I'd prob give you a call for a quote, most likely in the spring.

My husband only installs floors & does not do the actual sanding/staining but he can recommend probably someone who does. Not sure what shape your floors are in, if they were sanded previously & how many times? Is that the 3/8" strip?

[WDmagic]

thx for starting the thread. i am new to these floorings stuff.

i am looking at whether to get engineered wood vs laminate (12mm) on the main floor. went to a superstore last weekend & the sales recommended getting laminate saying it's cheaper & that it doesn't scratch easily. he used his nail to scratch the surface & it left a marking on the engineered wood but not the laminate. is it true that laminate is scratch-resistant (compare to the engineered wood)?

also, i have to walk a few steps from the door upto the main floor. is there such things as putting laminate on the stairs? currently it's carpet on the stairs & i want to match the stairs to the engineered wood/laminate that i will be getting on the main floor.

thx.

[CSK'sMom]

Yes, it's true that laminate is much more scratch resistant than any kind of real wood, engineered or solid. My hubby installs all flooring and with 3 kids and 2 dogs he absolutely refuses to put real wood in our house. We've had laminate in this house for 6 years and it still looks as good as the day it went in. Laminate can also be installed on stairs, but just like real wood it's the nosings, etc that will add quite a bit to the cost.

[patrob]

i am looking at whether to get engineered wood vs laminate (12mm) on the main floor. went to a superstore last weekend & the sales recommended getting laminate saying it's cheaper & that it doesn't scratch easily. he used his nail to scratch the surface & it left a marking on the engineered wood but not the laminate. is it true that laminate is scratch-resistant (compare to the engineered wood)?

also, i have to walk a few steps from the door upto the main floor. is there such things as putting laminate on the stairs? currently it's carpet on the stairs & i want to match the stairs to the engineered wood/laminate that i will be getting on the main floor.


Big difference between laminate & engineered flooring. Engineered is still wood, except the base is made out of either plywood or solid sawn core. Yes, laminate is more scratch resistant but it's not wood & does not have the same look (some people hate the 'look' of the laminate on the main floor). Unless you go with a more expensive laminate like Torlys, but then you are paying almost what real hardwood costs.

If you want to re-do your stairs from carpet to wood, you have to purchase stair threads or you could put hardwood planks but then you need a nosing to finish the step, either way it will cost you. But it will look much better to install new stair threads. You can also put laminate but need special moulding to finish the edge, which is not cheap.

[WDmagic]

re staircase

is it cheaper to get the stair treads than the hardwood planks or laminate? if i go with stair treads, do i just apply stains on the treads to match either the color of the engineered wood/laminate on the main floor & then it's done?

thx again.

[patrob]

re staircase

is it cheaper to get the stair treads than the hardwood planks or laminate? if i go with stair treads, do i just apply stains on the treads to match either the color of the engineered wood/laminate on the main floor & then it's done?

thx again.

Sometimes it's not about what is cheaper but what is more practical & what looks better. If you have to buy the planks & nosing, it might cost you about the same amount. Solid stair threads will look much better & just feel more solid. You still need the wood veneer for the risers & once that's installed along with your threads, you fill in the holes with wood filler & stain. Once that's dry, you apply 2 or 3 coats of varnish (but lightly sand in between each coat).

I just can't see people liking laminate stairs :|

[keithse]

Hi there,
I'm planning to replace the carpet of the living room and family room by hardwood floor. I'm interested in the red oak walnut colour, however, the oak staircase is prefinished with natural colour. I talked to 2 floor installers, one said he won't do the stain for me and another one said it's impossible to stain. So, I wonder if I should insist on having the mis-matched colour or just go with the natural oak colour for the hardwood floor. Please advice, thanks!

[patrob]

Hi there,
I'm planning to replace the carpet of the living room and family room by hardwood floor. I'm interested in the red oak walnut colour, however, the oak staircase is prefinished with natural colour. I talked to 2 floor installers, one said he won't do the stain for me and another one said it's impossible to stain. So, I wonder if I should insist on having the mis-matched colour or just go with the natural oak colour for the hardwood floor. Please advice, thanks!

Yes you can strip the varnish of your old stairs & stain it to any colour but it is expensive. Depending if you want to stain your pickets or paint them or totally replace them (iron) you are looking at at least $2,000 plus...depending on how many steps & what has to be done. It's very labour intensive & that costs money.

We have done that ourselves years ago & you can do it yourself to save money but it's messy & dusty.

I personally would do the stairs if you are not happy with the colour or just live with them the way they are & do the floors in a similar colour to match the stairs.

Hope this helps :)

[4gen_accord]

I was looking at a condo in Mississauga yesterday (Kaneff buliding to be exact) and there was hard flooring throughout the condo (6/10 condition)...I think I need to sand and stain...how much am I looking at? The hardwood flooring covers about 900 sq. ft.

I couldn't really tell you what kind of wood is used...but it's squarish...sorry i don't know anything about hardwood...about 20 years old I would say.

Thanks in advance.

[patrob]

I was looking at a condo in Mississauga yesterday (Kaneff buliding to be exact) and there was hard flooring throughout the condo (6/10 condition)...I think I need to sand and stain...how much am I looking at? The hardwood flooring covers about 900 sq. ft.

I couldn't really tell you what kind of wood is used...but it's squarish...sorry i don't know anything about hardwood...about 20 years old I would say.


I think you are referring to parquet flooring:) It's pretty typical in condos.

I know a lot of guys that do sanding/staining, don't like to do condos, it's more inconvenient due to elevators, limited hours they can work, etc. So they usually charge more...you are looking at anywhere from $2.50 plus sq. ft., depending on what kind of stain you want.

[4gen_accord]

so about 2k...do you think it's even worth it?

[patrob]

so about 2k...do you think it's even worth it?

Are you buying the condo or renting?

[4gen_accord]

buying...i'm planning to stay there for about 2-3 years.

[patrob]

buying...i'm planning to stay there for about 2-3 years.

I know that when you will be selling, it will be a nice selling feature having new shiny floors...but it's really up to you. If it was me, I would do it.

[4gen_accord]

Thanks for the tip. Can you please tell me more about parquet flooring...like quality, durablity, etc. how does it compare to other kinds of flooring.

[stealth]

If I were you, I wouldnt put any more money in to the parquet as I dont think you'll get a very good return on investment on it, since most parquet is considered kind of dated looking, and not very high end or desirable to new buyers.
I look at it this way, and its just my opinion. Lets imagine there was no flooring in your condo whatsoever. If you asked real estate agents "what flooring should I put in to get the best ROI on my place", I doubt a single one would tell you to put in parquet. Since re-finishing parquet costs about the same as brand new parquet (not including installation), and isnt that much cheaper than other more current and popular types of flooring, it doesnt seem like something I'd personally want to do.

I'd spend a bit more and put in engineered flooring on top instead, and set your place apart from all the other 70's/'80's looking condo's (no offense).

[4gen_accord]

None taken...not sure if I really want to spend ~6k on new hardwood flooring...if anything i would go put on laminate...i know it's not the same...but like i said i don't plan on staying long in that place.

I hate making decisions...lol

[stealth]

None taken...not sure if I really want to spend ~6k on new hardwood flooring...if anything i would go put on laminate...i know it's not the same...but like i said i don't plan on staying long in that place.

I hate making decisions...lol

I hear ya, lol...I would just say dont forget resale value as part of your decision.

[numommie]

In regards to installation, would the price be higher when installing on the 2nd floor (i.e. bedrooms) due to many small places such as closets?

[patrob]

In regards to installation, would the price be higher when installing on the 2nd floor (i.e. bedrooms) due to many small places such as closets?

Usually the price is per sq. ft., extras are only if cuts to curved nosings, 1/2 moons, height reducers or second trim is required. Every price detail should be discussed prior to starting the job.

[patrob]

...not sure if I really want to spend ~6k on new hardwood flooring...if anything i would go put on laminate...i know it's not the same...but like i said i don't plan on staying long in that place.


New floors like engineered will cost you a lot. New owners generally don't like seeing laminate, since they know it's usually a cheap make over. If you stain your mosaic parquet floors in a dark rich colour, it totally changes the look of your floors. Even though it's still parquet, it's still wood & epople love wood. The 70/80's look is when you have a natural finish parquet...staining it will totally transform it.

Plus new laminate floors of a better quality will run you at least $3,000 plus... And I am not talking about the Home Depot special:lol:

[stealth]

Whats your opinion of unfinished hardwood (finished in place after installtion)? I know its not very popular these days due to the inconvenience, but it always seemed like the best way to go by having the finish fill all of the bevels/cracks for a completely sealed surface. I also bet 2 good coats of varnish by hand on site would be better than the alleged 5-8 coats some manufacturers claim to have.
Only drawback to me is not being able to bake it on.

Do you see much of this going on in the industry at all?

[patrob]

Whats your opinion of unfinished hardwood (finished in place after installtion)? I know its not very popular these days due to the inconvenience, but it always seemed like the best way to go by having the finish fill all of the bevels/cracks for a completely sealed surface. I also bet 2 good coats of varnish by hand on site would be better than the alleged 5-8 coats some manufacturers claim to have.
Only drawback to me is not being able to bake it on.

Do you see much of this going on in the industry at all?

These days, very rarely you do an on-site finish floors. Yes it is an inconvenience around a week (install, sand, stain & finish). Unfinished floor, even installed as tight as possible, will still contract & expand. It will separate & the finish will crack on the joints. Looks nice for the 'first couple' of years.

Even 3 good coats done on-site are not as strong as everybody thinks. Just because you apply the coats thicker, doesn't mean they are stronger. If you apply the coats with couple of weeks break between, to let the finish cure completely, it's a lot stronger then. Rarely anybody has that much time to spare. But if you apply 3 coats in 1 week, it's not the same. There is always problems with machine marks, dust in the finish, overlaps.

Cost wise, it's pretty much the same, slightly cheaper wood but you still have to pay for install & finish.

Every installer has diff. opinions. Some will tell you there's nothing better than on-site finish & others will tell you pre-finished. With today's pre-finished you have uniform colour, perfect finish which is a lot stronger, UV cured which doesn't yellow & micro bevel which gives you true flat surface.

[stealth]

Interesting, thanks. Was just wondering b/c I was at a friends new house that they paid over a million for, and noticed that all the hardwood had been fininshed in place.

On another note, have you ever been unable to remove a squeak from a subfloor joist? I mean to the point that adding additional screws to the subfloor (plywood) into the joist every few inches, still did not stop the squeaking?
I have a subfloor thats like that...it seems to be across 3-4 joists. Wondering if I need to pull the subfloor in order to attach some additonal 2x8's to the joists, or add an additional layer of plywood on top before putting hardwood down? Its on the 2nd flor so cant access the joists from underneath.

[patrob]

On another note, have you ever been unable to remove a squeak from a subfloor joist? I mean to the point that adding additional screws to the subfloor (plywood) into the joist every few inches, still did not stop the squeaking?
I have a subfloor thats like that...it seems to be across 3-4 joists. Wondering if I need to pull the subfloor in order to attach some additonal 2x8's to the joists, or add an additional layer of plywood on top before putting hardwood down? Its on the 2nd flor so cant access the joists from underneath.

If you're hitting the joists with screws & it doesn't stop squeaking, then most likely it's the cross between joists. Very often they get loose & squeaky. You have to open that part & fix the squeak before you do anything else. Adding extra plywood will not stop it.

The type of floors is usually dictated by the builder's choice. Sometimes you do have a choice between un-finished & pre-finished but 95% of the floors now offered are pre-finished. It does not matter on the price of the house.

[stealth]

If you're hitting the joists with screws & it doesn't stop squeaking, then most likely it's the cross between joists. Very often they get loose & squeaky. You have to open that part & fix the squeak before you do anything else. Adding extra plywood will not stop it.

The type of floors is usually dictated by the builder's choice. Sometimes you do have a choice between un-finished & pre-finished but 95% of the floors now offered are pre-finished. It does not matter on the price of the house.

Thanks. It turns out the squeak was from a nail running through the partition wall bottom plate, into the joist. Man, was the squeak loud! Anyways, I cut it with a sawzall, squeezed in some No More Nails ran a couple 4" screws through the bottomplate/joist and all is well again :)

[patrob]

Thanks. It turns out the squeak was from a nail running through the partition wall bottom plate, into the joist. Man, was the squeak loud! Anyways, I cut it with a sawzall, squeezed in some No More Nails ran a couple 4" screws through the bottomplate/joist and all is well again :)

Good to hear (no pun intended:) ) that all is fixed...I hate those annoying squeaks too :rolleyes:

[BushCaddy]

Does anyone have an opinion as to what the best value in terms of a hardwood floor is? I'm thinking differences in quality between manufacturers.

At this point I'm considering either Mirage or Vintage flooring in a Maple with cherry finish. But I'm open to other companies or wood types as well.

Also, my subfloor appears to be half inch chipboard. Will this work, or do I need to go with the thicker plywood?

Thanks in advance.

[mrvedder]

from my research, you'll need to replace your chipboard with ply - something about the hardwood warranty...

[patrob]

Does anyone have an opinion as to what the best value in terms of a hardwood floor is? I'm thinking differences in quality between manufacturers.

At this point I'm considering either Mirage or Vintage flooring in a Maple with cherry finish. But I'm open to other companies or wood types as well.

Also, my subfloor appears to be half inch chipboard. Will this work, or do I need to go with the thicker plywood?

Thanks in advance.

The only diff. between Mirage & Vintage in maple first grade is that Vintage comes in better lengths. Finish wise & durability it's the same. There are other companies as you know but In my opinion nothing compares to those two for the price.

1/2" chipboard is not adequate. You have to "beef it up", in this case you need minimum 3/8" plywood. If it's 3/4" aspenite you're fine. How old is the house:?:

[patrob]

from my research, you'll need to replace your chipboard with ply - something about the hardwood warranty...

You don't replace your subfloor - you add on extra layer.

It's true about the warranty. Manufacturers cover themselves that you have to install the floor on minimum 5/8" plywood subfloor.

[bluespecv]

What is your opinion on the G.E Flooring that Costco is currently selling? I'm mainly interested in the Jatoba / Santo Mahogany / Sapelli

[patrob]

What is your opinion on the G.E Flooring that Costco is currently selling? I'm mainly interested in the Jatoba / Santo Mahogany / Sapelli

Not really familiar with this product. I hate buying stuff from "department" stores.

With engineered wood from a no name company, there is always a possibility of the seven layers de-laminating (separating). $5 ft. it's not such a great deal to take a risk.

Find out in case of warranty problems, who's going to take care of it:?: Where is the wood made & who is G.E. Flooring:?:

Most of the leading flooring manufacturers are going away from plywood based products.

[Col127]

hey patrob!

i'm in the market for hardwood flooring (as well as carpet too, not sure if you are well versed in this area too). just bought a resell townhome, 3 years old, in markham. there's oak flooring in there right now, but my fiance and i would much rather have maple flooring (rose wood color, or brazillian cherry - something like that).... or jatoba flooring. we'd need someone to remove the old floors and install the new ones for us too. our floors squeak a bit, so we'd want to get screws put down too.

we got a quote for about $5200-5300 for everything (about 500 sq feet), but that's way more than we'd want to spend on that. he quoted us $5.35 per sq. foot plus 2 bucks per sq ft install (incl tax) and about 2 bucks per sq ft to remove the old flooring. he also added on extra stuff for this and that too.

can you recommend anyone for me? we're looking for good quality at a great price (like everyone else ) :)

we're also looking at replacing all of the carpet with better quality ones in the upstairs & screw down the floors there too - know anyone for that?

lastly, we'd like to put in oak stairs with a carpet runner - right now it's all carpet.... and get it stained to match our new floors (when put in)... how much would that run us approximately? and who would you recommend for this?

we don't have a huge budget, so we're trying to see what we're able to do and we want to ensure we're getting quality installs and materials (doesn't have to be the best, but we don't want poor, crappy stuff :)

thanks man!

[patrob]

hey patrob!

i'm in the market for hardwood flooring (as well as carpet too, not sure if you are well versed in this area too). just bought a resell townhome, 3 years old, in markham. there's oak flooring in there right now, but my fiance and i would much rather have maple flooring (rose wood color, or brazillian cherry - something like that).... or jatoba flooring. we'd need someone to remove the old floors and install the new ones for us too. our floors squeak a bit, so we'd want to get screws put down too.

we got a quote for about $5200-5300 for everything (about 500 sq feet), but that's way more than we'd want to spend on that. he quoted us $5.35 per sq. foot plus 2 bucks per sq ft install (incl tax) and about 2 bucks per sq ft to remove the old flooring. he also added on extra stuff for this and that too.

can you recommend anyone for me? we're looking for good quality at a great price (like everyone else ) :)

we're also looking at replacing all of the carpet with better quality ones in the upstairs & screw down the floors there too - know anyone for that?

lastly, we'd like to put in oak stairs with a carpet runner - right now it's all carpet.... and get it stained to match our new floors (when put in)... how much would that run us approximately? and who would you recommend for this?

we don't have a huge budget, so we're trying to see what we're able to do and we want to ensure we're getting quality installs and materials (doesn't have to be the best, but we don't want poor, crappy stuff :)

thanks man!

That's actually a good price for all that work. About the stairs, ask the person who will be doing your floors...but in general re-doing your stairs to hardwood is not cheap. Approx. $150 to $250 per step.

BTW, what kind of hardwood do you have right now? Maybe you can save yourself a lot of money by re-sanding & staining to a diff. colour & just put the money you save into the stairs and few other things:idea:

If you decide to sell in few years, you will not get your money back for your new floors, since you already have wood floors. No point in ripping 3 year old floors just to change to diff. species of wood. Plus if you have kids or pets, oak is a lot better than maple.

[Col127]

oh i see.... i have oak right now. my fiancee and i both hate how grainy it is - can't stand it. and i think if you stain, the graininess still comes right through it, so there's not much point :P

we actually got a way better quote today from a different company, so we might just go with them. we got a quote to do hardwood floor from one company and carpet (for upstairs) from another company - everything together is just a bit over $5000. pretty good, but i'm still shopping around for the best one.

question: what's your thoughts on hard maple vs. birch?

That's actually a good price for all that work. About the stairs, ask the person who will be doing your floors...but in general re-doing your stairs to hardwood is not cheap. Approx. $150 to $250 per step.

BTW, what kind of hardwood do you have right now? Maybe you can save yourself a lot of money by re-sanding & staining to a diff. colour & just put the money you save into the stairs and few other things:idea:

If you decide to sell in few years, you will not get your money back for your new floors, since you already have wood floors. No point in ripping 3 year old floors just to change to diff. species of wood. Plus if you have kids or pets, oak is a lot better than maple.

[backbones]

Patrob, what are your thoughts of putting hardwood flooring in the kitchen? Specifically in regards to durability, maintenance, susceptibility to water exposure & spills...

[patrob]

oh i see.... i have oak right now. my fiancee and i both hate how grainy it is - can't stand it. and i think if you stain, the graininess still comes right through it, so there's not much point :P

we actually got a way better quote today from a different company, so we might just go with them. we got a quote to do hardwood floor from one company and carpet (for upstairs) from another company - everything together is just a bit over $5000. pretty good, but i'm still shopping around for the best one.

question: what's your thoughts on hard maple vs. birch?

Staining floors in darker colour will 'visually' hide the grain.

To remove existing floors, re-fasten sub-floors, install new floors and install second trim for $5,000, whoever is doing this is almost for free (500 sq. ft.). Not to mention the carpet upstairs...:idea:

I like maple, birch is a lot grainier, shows more colour differential & it's softer. But now when you ask me that, where did you get the idea of going with maple/birch:?: Because I have seen some products from China that are birch stained in MAPLE or CHERRY, etc...but the wood is still birch just to confuse people. I would be asking myself why this so called 'company' is offering you such a great deal...

[patrob]

Patrob, what are your thoughts of putting hardwood flooring in the kitchen? Specifically in regards to durability, maintenance, susceptibility to water exposure & spills...

It's very trendy to install hardwood in kitchens. It's a softer feel, a lot warmer than tile or stone & looks great.

But after having said that, I personally don't recommend it. Kitchen is the highest traffic area, over time walking on small grains of salt, bread crumbs, etc. will wear the finish a lot faster. Manufacturers actually point it out in their maintenance warranty pamphlet that in a high traffic areas, you should put a small area rug to prevent finish wear.

To give you an example, I know of someone that installed the highest quality product in their kitchen which was used very heavily, and they called in after 2 years that their finish is worn out. Manufacturer sent in their rep, he walked in & saw that there was no area rug & walked out saying there is no more warranty on the finish. The people had to re-finish the floors on their own cost :idea:

Hope this helps :)

[leafs]

[QUOTE= Plus if you have kids or pets, oak is a lot better than maple.[/QUOTE]

Why is oak better if you have children and pets? Maple is harder than Oak I thought. Less chances of denting and scratching.

[patrob]

Why is oak better if you have children and pets? Maple is harder than Oak I thought. Less chances of denting and scratching.

Yes, on the scale maple is harder than oak but because of it's grainless look and smooth finish, for some reason it shows more defects. The grain in the oak hides dents & scratches, as long as they are not below the finish.

When freshly installed, maple looks perfectly smooth. Any dent or scratch will show right away. I had maple in my previous house & loved the smooth look but once kids came, every little dent was visible & after only 6 years of kids playing with their toys on the floor, the floor looked like it had to be re-finished>:(

Many times it's not the wood that gives you the strength, it's the top coat finish used by the manufacturer. To give you an example of poor quality finish on a "Chinese" made wood, I literally used my fingernail to scratch off portion of the top coat & it come off so easily:rolleyes:

[napoleonz]

I have 15 steps of stairs, straight up. I am replacing the carpet with hardwood. I bought the riser and treads, unfinished. My friend installed 2 steps for me and I notice there are gaps around the treads after he put the tread in place. Partly because of un-straight edges and also because the riser was not flushed (bended very slightly). We don't have saw bed, so tool is limited. Also this guy has very preliminary wood work experience. And he explained to me that the edges around the tread could be fixed by wood filler?! And I won't notice it after the finish....is he making sense at all? I was expecting some flush and tight installation, without much gaps on the sides of the treads...am I expecting too much? I am deciding whether to let him continue the rest of the 13 steps.

Opinion needed! Thanx in advance!

[TTony]

I have 15 steps of stairs, straight up. I am replacing the carpet with hardwood. I bought the riser and treads, unfinished. My friend installed 2 steps for me and I notice there are gaps around the treads after he put the tread in place. Partly because of un-straight edges and also because the riser was not flushed (bended very slightly). We don't have saw bed, so tool is limited. Also this guy has very preliminary wood work experience. And he explained to me that the edges around the tread could be fixed by wood filler?! And I won't notice it after the finish....is he making sense at all? I was expecting some flush and tight installation, without much gaps on the sides of the treads...am I expecting too much? I am deciding whether to let him continue the rest of the 13 steps.

Opinion needed! Thanx in advance!

He did cut the existing noise right? thats where the gaps coming from,you should re veneer the stringers than.

[patrob]

I have 15 steps of stairs, straight up. I am replacing the carpet with hardwood. I bought the riser and treads, unfinished. My friend installed 2 steps for me and I notice there are gaps around the treads after he put the tread in place. Partly because of un-straight edges and also because the riser was not flushed (bended very slightly). We don't have saw bed, so tool is limited. Also this guy has very preliminary wood work experience. And he explained to me that the edges around the tread could be fixed by wood filler?! And I won't notice it after the finish....is he making sense at all? I was expecting some flush and tight installation, without much gaps on the sides of the treads...am I expecting too much? I am deciding whether to let him continue the rest of the 13 steps.

Opinion needed! Thanx in advance!

Fire your friend:lol:

Start from the bottom, install the step, riser, step, riser, etc. The riser, even if it's 1/4" thin will cover the unevenness. Try to cut the sides close to perfection, so you have to use minimum filler like 1/16". Wood filler cracks so even if you fill it in & finish it, it will still crack & fall out eventually.

You need skill, table saw, miter saw that cuts the width of the thread and good adhesive.

Is it 3 side closed staircase? If it is, it's very tricky to cut those threads & fit them in place close to perfection.

[napoleonz]

Fire your friend:lol:

Start from the bottom, install the step, riser, step, riser, etc. The riser, even if it's 1/4" thin will cover the unevenness. Try to cut the sides close to perfection, so you have to use minimum filler like 1/16". Wood filler cracks so even if you fill it in & finish it, it will still crack & fall out eventually.

You need skill, table saw, miter saw that cuts the width of the thread and good adhesive.

Is it 3 side closed staircase? If it is, it's very tricky to cut those threads & fit them in place close to perfection.

ok...sounds like the riser should sit on top of the tread??!! Right now the riser occupy the full height of the steps, and the tread pushes against the riser. Thus even if the riser is not 100% flush to the back, the tread can't fit perfectly....

Yes it is a 3 side closed staircase. And yes, cutting the tread seems to be the trickiest part.

man, doesn't look too good what my frd did.

[patrob]

ok...sounds like the riser should sit on top of the tread??!! Right now the riser occupy the full height of the steps, and the tread pushes against the riser. Thus even if the riser is not 100% flush to the back, the tread can't fit perfectly....

Yes it is a 3 side closed staircase. And yes, cutting the tread seems to be the trickiest part.

man, doesn't look too good what my frd did.

Just rip off the first 2 steps & start from the beginning. Thread, riser... When cutting the thread to length measure front & back lengths. With square or foot print, check the angle you have to cut the thread to. Cut one side straight & the other at 1.5 degree bevel angle, so it fits easier. Do the same thing with the risers. Use glue & minimum nails.

[backbones]

Patrob, thanks for your thread.

I know that the finish on our hardwood has become dull through the years. Is there a consumer product that you could recommend to restore the luster?

[patrob]

Patrob, thanks for your thread.

I know that the finish on our hardwood has become dull through the years. Is there a consumer product that you could recommend to restore the luster?

Glad to hear that you like the thread & I'm happy to help :)

To answer your question, the only way to bring back the shine is to do a screen & coat (very light sand & varnish) unfortunately.

[napoleonz]

Just rip off the first 2 steps & start from the beginning. Thread, riser... When cutting the thread to length measure front & back lengths. With square or foot print, check the angle you have to cut the thread to. Cut one side straight & the other at 1.5 degree bevel angle, so it fits easier. Do the same thing with the risers. Use glue & minimum nails.

Thanks for your advice. I've decided to hire a pro to help.

[patrob]

Thanks for your advice. I've decided to hire a pro to help.

If you don't feel confident in what you're doing, this is the best solution.

Good luck & BTW, Happy New Year 2008 ;)

[HighFlyer]

I just bought a split level stacked condo townhouse. I own the top two floors (level 3 and 4), with someone else living on the bottom two (level 1 and 2). My living room (level 3) is right above the other person's bedroom (level 2), so I'm only allowed to put carpet there, but I'm allowed to do whatever I want to the bedrooms since it will be my living room that will be beneath it. Will it look out of place if I have carpet in the living room, and hardwood in the bedrooms? In most of the designs I've seen, they seem to have it the other way around.

[sandyriver]

You can buy Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) from China for about $4 ft. Or you can get good quality Jatoba for $7 plus...

Daboss -- I got the brazilian jatoba from Brampton hardwood on sale at 4.65 $ per sq ft. [original price was 5.49$/sq ft].
Check the place out.
I had an installer I know through friends who installed the floor for me for around 1.90 $/sq.ft.[ta included]
This included removing carpet and the junk.he tied it up neatly. and he moved the furniture himself. Didn't have to do a anything.
He came early morning 7 Am and finished installing around 8PM the same day.
This was for 360 sq ft of living room space.

The best part, the installation was admired by all our neighbours who had gone for 1.50 $ rate through other guys.

[sandyriver]

I am looking at a sweeper for hardwood and the rugs. Looking for something easy to use everyday.
Right now using swiffer dry cloths for my Jatoba.

Can anyone recomend what they would use for daily dry cleaning and occasional wet cleaning?

thanks.

[cheystar]

I planning to remove my carpets and install hardwood floors. Anyone can recommend companys that sell and install? There are so many out there don't know which one to go with.

[patrob]

I planning to remove my carpets and install hardwood floors. Anyone can recommend companys that sell and install? There are so many out there don't know which one to go with.

PM sent ;)

[patrob]

I am looking at a sweeper for hardwood and the rugs. Looking for something easy to use everyday.
Right now using swiffer dry cloths for my Jatoba.

Can anyone recomend what they would use for daily dry cleaning and occasional wet cleaning?


Any hardwood store will carry a professional hardwood floor cleaning kit. It's cheaper than using the swiffer pads, since it's made out of terry cloth & you just rinse it out & re-use. It also comes with a spray solution or you can just use water but make sure it's not soaking wet...just slightly damp.

[dgmorr]

Any good places to get unfinished hardwood planks but with tongue and groove?

[patrob]

Any good places to get unfinished hardwood planks but with tongue and groove?

Pretty much any place that sells hardwood will also have unfinished wood. Try http://www.bramptonhardwood.com/, www.Darmaga.com or http://www.stansflooring.com/content/index.php

BTW, why do you want unfinished vs. pre-finished:?:

[patrob]

I just bought a split level stacked condo townhouse. I own the top two floors (level 3 and 4), with someone else living on the bottom two (level 1 and 2). My living room (level 3) is right above the other person's bedroom (level 2), so I'm only allowed to put carpet there, but I'm allowed to do whatever I want to the bedrooms since it will be my living room that will be beneath it. Will it look out of place if I have carpet in the living room, and hardwood in the bedrooms? In most of the designs I've seen, they seem to have it the other way around.

That's true, usually it's the bedrooms have the carpet & living room has wood. But if you really want wood in the bedrooms, then it's your choice. There is really no right or wrong...since it's your house. But personally, I think that having all the same type of flooring in the bedrooms like in the living room, might be a better idea...like a nice berber carpet but if you really want wood, then go for wood.

You could still probably do hardwood in your living room but you would need to install a sound barrier.

[dgmorr]

Pretty much any place that sells hardwood will also have unfinished wood. Try http://www.bramptonhardwood.com/, www.Darmaga.com or http://www.stansflooring.com/content/index.php

BTW, why do you want unfinished vs. pre-finished:?:

I was going to do the finishing myself. My dad did one of his rooms himself and it was extremely cheap, but mostly because he is a wood fanatic and enjoyed doing it.

[patrob]

I was going to do the finishing myself. My dad did one of his rooms himself and it was extremely cheap, but mostly because he is a wood fanatic and enjoyed doing it.

Sure, many people still prefer to get their hardwood floors done the old fashioned way ;) But it takes great skill to get it right. Plus not to mention all that mess than comes with unfinished floors...

If you are planning to do the unfinished hardwood on the main floor, I hope you are planning to move out for few days :idea:

[dgmorr]

Sure, many people still prefer to get their hardwood floors done the old fashioned way ;) But it takes great skill to get it right. Plus not to mention all that mess than comes with unfinished floors...

If you are planning to do the unfinished hardwood on the main floor, I hope you are planning to move out for few days :idea:

Yeah, luckily the house will be vacant for a while. I clearly remember the smell from helping my dad finish one of his floors.

[rfd_is_cool]

thanks for this thread!

we've just moved into our new house, but we're not loving the colour of our hardwood. it's in great condition, just a few scratches here and there. we're very keen on doing renos on our own, but don't have a whole lot of experience. we'd like to sand and restain our hardwood floors in the living room and family room (~1000 sqft), but i'm concerned about how difficult it is to evenly apply the finishing coats? any advice on brands to buy? thanks so much.

[patrob]

thanks for this thread!

we've just moved into our new house, but we're not loving the colour of our hardwood. it's in great condition, just a few scratches here and there. we're very keen on doing renos on our own, but don't have a whole lot of experience. we'd like to sand and restain our hardwood floors in the living room and family room (~1000 sqft), but i'm concerned about how difficult it is to evenly apply the finishing coats? any advice on brands to buy? thanks so much.

If you never used a sanding machine, I suggest you don't touch it. You may do more harm than good. I understand that many people want to do renos themselves, but there comes a time when you have to hire a professional.

To rent 2 machines, sand paper and the time involved in paying for the rental machines plus your varnish & stain, plus, plus....it's not worth doing it yourself. 1,000 sq. ft. is a lot for someone with no experience.

[patrob]

Yeah, luckily the house will be vacant for a while. I clearly remember the smell from helping my dad finish one of his floors.

Now you can use a finish with low odour or water based.

[DNAv5]

I am looking for someone to stain my unfinish oak stairs.

Anyone can help? Referrals?

Thanks

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/dnav5/stairs.jpg

[patrob]

I am looking for someone to stain my unfinish oak stairs.

Anyone can help? Referrals?

Thanks

Actually call this guy, his name is Mike 416-816-5506 from Artever Painting.

Hope this helps :)

[Tacoma]

Hi Patrob,

Great thread!

We bought a new house with hardwood flooring (solid red oak, glossed reddish natural oak colour) on 1st floor and carpeting on 2nd floor. Before moving in, we will convert to hardwood on the 2nd floor (solid red oak, semi-glossed walnut colour) and stain the 1st floor (including the stairs) to the darker walnut colour so that the floor colours match on both floors. We had the option of completely replacing the 1st floor instead of staining, but that was more expensive. Will there be any matching or other issues with staining the 1st floor to match the 2nd? Thanks in advance.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Great thread!

We bought a new house with hardwood flooring (solid red oak, glossed reddish natural oak colour) on 1st floor and carpeting on 2nd floor. Before moving in, we will convert to hardwood on the 2nd floor (solid red oak, semi-glossed walnut colour) and stain the 1st floor (including the stairs) to the darker walnut colour so that the floor colours match on both floors. We had the option of completely replacing the 1st floor instead of staining, but that was more expensive. Will there be any matching or other issues with staining the 1st floor to match the 2nd? Thanks in advance.

Thanks,

Re-finishg your floors will be the cheapest option & it can be easily matched to the new colour that you will be installing on the 2nd level. You just have to choose the right finish to match your new floors, you have 3 options: satin, semi-gloss or gloss.

It's the stairs that will really cost you to refinish since it's very labour intensive. It is possible to do it yourself if you are handy & you can save yourself a lot of money, we did that in our previous house, so I know how much work is involved. Also do you want to re-finish your pickets or just paint them white or totally change them to iron, you need to decide.

Good luck ;)

[Tacoma]

Thanks Patrob!

Yes, we will be painting both the pickets and the stair risers (I think that's what the verticle stair boards are called?) white. The contrast between the dark walnut and white risers look nice and seems to be a trend these days. We decided not to change to iron pickets for cost reasons.

We got a quote to refinish the stairs (there are 2 freights of stairs, including the one going into the basement) as described for $4,500.

[patrob]

Thanks Patrob!

Yes, we will be painting both the pickets and the stair risers (I think that's what the verticle stair boards are called?) white. The contrast between the dark walnut and white risers look nice and seems to be a trend these days. We decided not to change to iron pickets for cost reasons.

We got a quote to refinish the stairs (there are 2 freights of stairs, including the one going into the basement) as described for $4,500.

Yes, to re-finish stairs it's pretty expensive. Because you have the stairs going to the basement, that pretty much counts as 2 staircases to re-finish.

Here is an example of what I think you are trying to achieve with your stairs...

http://www.cpstairmasters.com/staircase-pic-pinehurst1.jpg

[Tacoma]

Yes, that picture is exactly it!!! You're good... very good! :)

[patrob]

Yes, that picture is exactly it!!! You're good... very good! :)

:D ;)

[mavvee]

Thanks,

Re-finishg your floors will be the cheapest option & it can be easily matched to the new colour that you will be installing on the 2nd level. You just have to choose the right finish to match your new floors, you have 3 options: satin, semi-gloss or gloss.

It's the stairs that will really cost you to refinish since it's very labour intensive. It is possible to do it yourself if you are handy & you can save yourself a lot of money, we did that in our previous house, so I know how much work is involved. Also do you want to re-finish your pickets or just paint them white or totally change them to iron, you need to decide.

Good luck ;)

Hi Patrob, do you have a good source for changing existing pickets to iron? I want to change out my newels too to the square ones as oppose to the standard builder round ones.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob, do you have a good source for changing existing pickets to iron? I want to change out my newels too to the square ones as oppose to the standard builder round ones.

Are you looking for someone to do it or you just want to buy the iron pickets & posts & change it yourself:?:

I know somebody who does it if you want the name & phone #.

[Icarus3000]

Is anyone familiar with the cherry stained oak hardwood currently on sale at Home Depot for $2.99/sqft?

Not knowing anything about hardwood, I imagine it might not be the best quality, but it is certainly within our price range.

We are looking to spend around $3000 total for a ~315 sq.ft living room/dining room. Price includes carpet removal, quarterround installation, etc...

Is there a flooring store someone could recommend for hardwood or engineered hardwood that would be within our budget? Does anyone know of an installer that can beat home depot's installation prices?

Thanks!
Icarus3000

[patrob]

Is anyone familiar with the cherry stained oak hardwood currently on sale at Home Depot for $2.99/sqft?

Not knowing anything about hardwood, I imagine it might not be the best quality, but it is certainly within our price range.

We are looking to spend around $3000 total for a ~315 sq.ft living room/dining room. Price includes carpet removal, quarterround installation, etc...

Is there a flooring store someone could recommend for hardwood or engineered hardwood that would be within our budget? Does anyone know of an installer that can beat home depot's installation prices?


BTW, how much is HD quoting you for installation:?: From what I know, every flooring store will beat their price.

Your budget is ok for $3 sq. ft. wood but anything better quality - no. I have a suggestion, why not cut your cost by removing the carpet yourself:?: It's very easy plus installing the quarter round is easy too.

Then with your $3,000 budget you can get yourself higher quality wood :idea:

[Icarus3000]

BTW, how much is HD quoting you for installation:?: From what I know, every flooring store will beat their price.
$3.35/square foot for the installation
$0.60/ square foot for carpet removal and disposal
Do you have a recommendation for somewhere that could do it for a lower price? (I'm in Thornhill - just north of Toronto)
I have a suggestion, why not cut your cost by removing the carpet yourself:?: It's very easy plus installing the quarter round is easy too.
For the size of our room, carpet removal and disposal comes to around $200. I know I could do it myself, but it would mean an extra day at least, and I don't have a lot of free time these days. (also, I don't have a lot of space to store the furniture from the room while the work is being done, so while the work is being done our home will be pretty much unlivable).

[patrob]

Do you have a recommendation for somewhere that could do it for a lower price? (I'm in Thornhill - just north of Toronto)


PM sent ;)

[findingnemo]

Patrob - great thread!

What's your thoughts on my situation?

The builder is offering stained Superior red oak flooring as standard throughout the first floor (exl. kitchen, foyer, & powder room). Area of hardwood is approx. 800 sq ft.
Superior Flooring in Red Oak Coffee finish
http://www.superiorflooring.ca/english/samples/roak-cof.jpg

I have the option of upgrading to Mirage red oak in the Java finish for 2.5K:
http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/stylises_ad_chene_java.html

or Mirage maple in Vienna finish for a little less

We much prefer the Mirage over the Superior as the Mirage is less grainy and the finish is extremely smooth.

So my question is:
1) Do I upgrade? If so oak or maple? I have two young kids and am worried about dents and scratches especially with the darker finish.
2) Do I go with the standard floors and refinish the floors when the kids are older?

[mrvedder]

Patrob - great thread!

What's your thoughts on my situation?

The builder is offering stained Superior red oak flooring as standard throughout the first floor (exl. kitchen, foyer, & powder room). Area of hardwood is approx. 800 sq ft.
Superior Flooring in Red Oak Coffee finish
http://www.superiorflooring.ca/english/samples/roak-cof.jpg

I have the option of upgrading to Mirage red oak in the Java finish for 2.5K:
http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/stylises_ad_chene_java.html

or Mirage maple in Vienna finish for a little less

We much prefer the Mirage over the Superior as the Mirage is less grainy and the finish is extremely smooth.

So my question is:
1) Do I upgrade? If so oak or maple? I have two young kids and am worried about dents and scratches especially with the darker finish.
2) Do I go with the standard floors and refinish the floors when the kids are older?

I'll respond since we're in a similar boat:
at $2500 for 800 sq. ft, you're getting Mirage for less than $3.20/sq. ft (albeit an upgrade from the standard wood). I'd spend the money on the "better" wood now as you won't get it for that price if you wanted to do it later and you seem to really favour it over the Superior product.

As for the stain, we're currently comparing both the Java and the Vienna options but as much as we love the look of Maple, we're going to go with the Oak as it will show scratches far less because of the natural grain vs the smooth Maple finish.

Hope this helps!

[patrob]

Patrob - great thread!

What's your thoughts on my situation?

The builder is offering stained Superior red oak flooring as standard throughout the first floor (exl. kitchen, foyer, & powder room). Area of hardwood is approx. 800 sq ft.
Superior Flooring in Red Oak Coffee finish
http://www.superiorflooring.ca/english/samples/roak-cof.jpg

I have the option of upgrading to Mirage red oak in the Java finish for 2.5K:
http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/stylises_ad_chene_java.html

or Mirage maple in Vienna finish for a little less

We much prefer the Mirage over the Superior as the Mirage is less grainy and the finish is extremely smooth.

So my question is:
1) Do I upgrade? If so oak or maple? I have two young kids and am worried about dents and scratches especially with the darker finish.
2) Do I go with the standard floors and refinish the floors when the kids are older?

If you are afraid of dents & scratches with kids, then go for oak not maple. Maple has a smooth finish and even through it's harder than oak, will show more damage. But the question you are asking is if it's worth paying $2,500 more for Mirage, the answer is no. It's different if you would be getting your own hardwood & deciding between Superior & Mirage & paying that $1 or more per sq. ft. it sure would be worth it, but the builder is charging you over $3 sq. ft. for Mirage & IMO it's not worth that much more.

Superior is still a good product & if you really want maple, just ask for Superior in maple, it will be less grainy than oak & similar to Mirage maple.

[findingnemo]

Good to know Superior is a good product. We're more likely to keep the standard then upgrading with that information. Thanks for the insight.

[kevinzha]

Thanks for this thread, Patrob.

I have bought the 5" Jatoba hardwood for approximate 400 square foot family room, now I have some questions:

1. Is it easy to DIY install the hardwood floor? One of my friend just finished 1000 sq foot instation, he will help me with starting and finishing, I will do the main part by myself. I think I am a kind of handy:) , but not quit sure what will happen during the installation......

2. Is there any difference between the 5" and 3 3/4" hardwood installation?

3. Currently the floor is covered by parquet, should I take off the parquet before new installation? If yes, any recommanded tools?

Thanks in advance,

Kevin

[patrob]

Thanks for this thread, Patrob.

I have bought the 5" Jatoba hardwood for approximate 400 square foot family room, now I have some questions:

1. Is it easy to DIY install the hardwood floor? One of my friend just finished 1000 sq foot instation, he will help me with starting and finishing, I will do the main part by myself. I think I am a kind of handy:) , but not quit sure what will happen during the installation......

2. Is there any difference between the 5" and 3 3/4" hardwood installation?

3. Currently the floor is covered by parquet, should I take off the parquet before new installation? If yes, any recommanded tools?


The basics for straight installation are all the same. Try to spread the joints of the boards, the further the better. Try not to repeat patterns. Take your time & don't rush.

Make sure you use a nailer with cleats NOT staples. Stapler tends to crack the 'tongue'. Your warranty coverage from the manufacturer will be void if you cover existing floors. You can still do it if your parquet is very solid & not lifting & also if it's not affecting your threshold height. Make sure you get rid of all the squeaks before. BTW, parquet is pretty simple to remove & all you need is a solid scraper, chisel, hammer & couple breaks in between:lol:.

Good luck ;)

[kevinzha]

The basics for straight installation are all the same. Try to spread the joints of the boards, the further the better. Try not to repeat patterns. Take your time & don't rush.

Make sure you use a nailer with cleats NOT staples. Stapler tends to crack the 'tongue'. Your warranty coverage from the manufacturer will be void if you cover existing floors. You can still do it if your parquet is very solid & not lifting & also if it's not affecting your threshold height. Make sure you get rid of all the squeaks before. BTW, parquet is pretty simple to remove & all you need is a solid scraper, chisel, hammer & couple breaks in between:lol:.

Good luck ;)

Thanks a lot, Patrob :D

[patrob]

Thanks a lot, Patrob :D

No problem ;)

[robbiex1]

Hi Patrob,

I'm currently moving into a new Mattamy home in the Fall 2008 and we want hardwood flooring throughout the main floor except for the washroom/closet and maybe front foyer. The builder is asking for about $10k to do about 700 sq. ft. using Mirage Oak stained with Java (or something similar).

If we decide to do it after, to do the kitchen, we would have to rip tile out of the kitchen/breakfast area (approx 200 sq.ft.), lift the counters and the island to do the hardwood. I'm assuming this will be very expensive.

Would it just be easier to go with the builder? or is it still cheaper to rip out the tile in the kitchen/breakfast area and carpet in the great room/living room and have it done by a pro after?

Could you also recommend an installer for the Cornell area (East Markham). Thanks!

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

I'm currently moving into a new Mattamy home in the Fall 2008 and we want hardwood flooring throughout the main floor except for the washroom/closet and maybe front foyer. The builder is asking for about $10k to do about 700 sq. ft. using Mirage Oak stained with Java (or something similar).

If we decide to do it after, to do the kitchen, we would have to rip tile out of the kitchen/breakfast area (approx 200 sq.ft.), lift the counters and the island to do the hardwood. I'm assuming this will be very expensive.

Would it just be easier to go with the builder? or is it still cheaper to rip out the tile in the kitchen/breakfast area and carpet in the great room/living room and have it done by a pro after?

Could you also recommend an installer for the Cornell area (East Markham). Thanks!

$14 sq. ft. is expensive since you already paid for you standard flooring in the house price. Removing the tiles in a brand new kitchen is not a good idea. Without removing the base cabinets it's very hard to remove the tiles. Did you try asking Mattamy (more likely they will say no) to raise the kitchen cabinets & leave bare sub-floor or even install vinyl:?:

If you really want hardwood in your kitchen it's doable. Removing the tiles will be a little bit messy but it can be done. If you're set on achieving this look, then just go for it :) It still should be cheaper even with tile removal than going with the builder.

BTW, are your stairs hardwood & is Mattamy staining it to your chosen hardwood colour? You mention an island, is the sink in the island? If not then you just pick it up & move it. Plus don't forget, you get to keep your brand new carpets & you can use it in the basement :razz:

[robbiex1]

Thanks for the reply and your contact Patrob.

I have another question, Mattamy does not offer a plywood subfloor option for our end-unit townhouse. They only provide a chipboard floor. I have to confirm but I thought this would void the warranty from Mirage's hardwood flooring unless they install a plywood subfloor on top (which I don't see mattamy doing).

Something about Mattamy's hardwood installation sounds fishy and I suspect they're planning on installing the hardwood right to the chipboard subfloor with no plywood.

How bad a situation is that? Will chipboard always lead to creaks and problems?
Also, will raising the subfloor with 5/8 plywood mean a lot of additional costs in trimming doors, etc.?

Thanks Petrob, I appreciate the help!

[patrob]

I have another question, Mattamy does not offer a plywood subfloor option for our end-unit townhouse. They only provide a chipboard floor. I have to confirm but I thought this would void the warranty from Mirage's hardwood flooring unless they install a plywood subfloor on top (which I don't see mattamy doing).

Something about Mattamy's hardwood installation sounds fishy and I suspect they're planning on installing the hardwood right to the chipboard subfloor with no plywood.

How bad a situation is that? Will chipboard always lead to creaks and problems?
Also, will raising the subfloor with 5/8 plywood mean a lot of additional costs in trimming doors, etc.?

I am surprised that they don't add the 1/4" multiply:confused: Usually builders add the 1/4" multiply to strengthen the subfloor since hardwood manufacturers specify it for warranty purposes.

If you decide to add the 1/4" plywood, the installer will cut the frames so that the hardwood goes under. Doors don't need to be cut. But the plywood will add about $2 sq. ft. to your budget.

[gunguns]

Hi Patrob,

I need some help in where to start. I am putting maple hardwood in the upstars of a typical split level. I had planned to start nailing down the maple hardwood in one of the bedrooms but am concerned about the small hallway at the top of the stairs and how to get the hardwood flush with the stair nosepiece. The staircase will be carpet in the middle with hardwood on each side. Should the install of the hardwood start form the stair nose piece and then flow into the bedrooms once the small hallway is complete? I do understand that in any case some chalk lines will have to be run as I am sure the staircase will not be square with the bedroom walls. I have a laser square that I can use for this.

[patrob]

I need some help in where to start. I am putting maple hardwood in the upstars of a typical split level. I had planned to start nailing down the maple hardwood in one of the bedrooms but am concerned about the small hallway at the top of the stairs and how to get the hardwood flush with the stair nosepiece. The staircase will be carpet in the middle with hardwood on each side. Should the install of the hardwood start form the stair nose piece and then flow into the bedrooms once the small hallway is complete? I do understand that in any case some chalk lines will have to be run as I am sure the staircase will not be square with the bedroom walls. I have a laser square that I can use for this.

You can shoot a line parallel to the nosing to see how square your line is to the walls. It's really hard to explain things like that in words. Sometimes you have to cut your starting line (1/8" over 4 ft. will give you a diff. of over an inch on 10 ft.) Measure, shoot lines & measure again & use your judgment what will look the best.

But try to start with the fullest piece at the nosing & do the hallway first.

[HighFlyer]

My contractor plans to install a 6mm cork underlay before installing engineered hardwood (in a condo townhouse). Is that effective enough as a sound barrier?

[patrob]

My contractor plans to install a 6mm cork underlay before installing engineered hardwood (in a condo townhouse). Is that effective enough as a sound barrier?

Yes it is sufficient as a sound barrier.

[atLANtic]

Patrob ,do you work for Darmaga?

[patrob]

Patrob ,do you work for Darmaga?

No, but my husband knows a lot of people from there ;) BTW, why do you ask?

[patrob]

Good to know Superior is a good product. We're more likely to keep the standard then upgrading with that information. Thanks for the insight.

Glad to help :)

[Col127]

hey patrob,

do you know anything about the three towers floring (http://www.threetowersflooring.com/)? saw them at the metro home show - they said their wood was good, but i can't find any reviews on them...

i was originally thinking of getting mirage wood - maple merlot, but it was coming out at $6.25 per sq ft for traditional grade from one store - steeper than what i wanted to pay. would you know anyone selling this for cheaper?

these guys don't have that specific colour, but the have select grade & better maple for $4.79 a square foot.

i'd appreciate your thoughts :)

[patrob]

do you know anything about the three towers floring (http://www.threetowersflooring.com/)? saw them at the metro home show - they said their wood was good, but i can't find any reviews on them...

i was originally thinking of getting mirage wood - maple merlot, but it was coming out at $6.25 per sq ft for traditional grade from one store - steeper than what i wanted to pay. would you know anyone selling this for cheaper?

these guys don't have that specific colour, but the have select grade & better maple for $4.79 a square foot.


Don't know anything about Three Towers Flooring. On pics looks ok, but can't comment on anything else. Will try to get more info tomorrow.

Maple Merlot it's a very interesting rich colour. The price seems within normal for Mirage. Check out Vintage Maple Godiva but it has more of a brown tone not red.

For $6.25 sq. ft. you should be getting select & better (Vintage-Estate).

[Quick_lude]

Great thread :)

We're going to be installing new flooring in the family room. Found a place selling Vintage flooring white or red oak, can't remember, for about $3.70 for 3" width. Is that a good price?

Right now we have 5/8 osb as a subfloor, I'm thinking of adding 1/2" of plywood on top, is there a need for any kind of underlayment or should we just install the floor right onto the plywood?

I know you don't recommend installing the floor parallel to the joists but in our case it would help out with the room visually, is there anything I could do to the floor that would make it possible to install the floor this way?

Thanks for any advice.

[patrob]

Great thread :)

We're going to be installing new flooring in the family room. Found a place selling Vintage flooring white or red oak, can't remember, for about $3.70 for 3" width. Is that a good price?

Right now we have 5/8 osb as a subfloor, I'm thinking of adding 1/2" of plywood on top, is there a need for any kind of underlayment or should we just install the floor right onto the plywood?

I know you don't recommend installing the floor parallel to the joists but in our case it would help out with the room visually, is there anything I could do to the floor that would make it possible to install the floor this way?

Thanks for any advice.

Vintage for $3.70 sq. ft., is that for pre-finished :?: That sounds too good of a deal to me but for sure it will not be the Estate grade. More like Vintage grade or probably Character/Ranch which is very colourfull, so if you are a picky person & like a nice & even colour, you may want to stay away:lol:

All you need to add to your existing OSB is 1/4" multiply, no need to go 1/2". Make sure you re-screw your sub-floors before you add the plywood.

How large is the area that you want to install with the joists? What kind of joists do you have 2 x 10 or TGI? If you want to install with the joists, install second layer of 1/2" or thicker plywood, cross pattern existing plywood. Glue & screws. Make sure you hit the joists through both ply's.

[Col127]

great, thanks for checking for me. my fiancee and i like the red/brown in the merlot. ti's very unique. oh, $6.25 is for 3.25." we were quoted $5.50 for 2.5." both is for traditional, not select & better.

would you know where i could get the mirage maple merlot select & better for less than $6.25?? :)

i don't need the best flooring, i want good quality though... i just like that maple merlot a heck of a lot.

a guy from frontier flooring told me mirage and vintage made the best wood flooring.

Don't know anything about Three Towers Flooring. On pics looks ok, but can't comment on anything else. Will try to get more info tomorrow.

Maple Merlot it's a very interesting rich colour. The price seems within normal for Mirage. Check out Vintage Maple Godiva but it has more of a brown tone not red.

For $6.25 sq. ft. you should be getting select & better (Vintage-Estate).

[patrob]

great, thanks for checking for me. my fiancee and i like the red/brown in the merlot. ti's very unique. oh, $6.25 is for 3.25." we were quoted $5.50 for 2.5." both is for traditional, not select & better.

would you know where i could get the mirage maple merlot select & better for less than $6.25?? :)

i don't need the best flooring, i want good quality though... i just like that maple merlot a heck of a lot.

a guy from frontier flooring told me mirage and vintage made the best wood flooring.

Did you try Darmaga or Stan's Flooring for Mirage?

BTW, were not able to get any more info on Three Towers. My contact knows that they are out there in the market but had nothing good/or bad to say.

[Quick_lude]

Vintage for $3.70 sq. ft., is that for pre-finished :?: That sounds too good of a deal to me but for sure it will not be the Estate grade. More like Vintage grade or probably Character/Ranch which is very colourfull, so if you are a picky person & like a nice & even colour, you may want to stay away:lol:

All you need to add to your existing OSB is 1/4" multiply, no need to go 1/2". Make sure you re-screw your sub-floors before you add the plywood.

How large is the area that you want to install with the joists? What kind of joists do you have 2 x 10 or TGI? If you want to install with the joists, install second layer of 1/2" or thicker plywood, cross pattern existing plywood. Glue & screws. Make sure you hit the joists through both ply's.

It is vintage but I got my prices mixed up, I think it might have been in the $5/sqft range.

We have 2x8 joists but today when I was removing the old floor and subfloor, so far the joists are 12" oc, not 16" :) so that should help. The area is about 200 sqft.
What size screws should be used to reinforce the old 5/8" subfloor and the second layer of ply?

[patrob]

It is vintage but I got my prices mixed up, I think it might have been in the $5/sqft range.

We have 2x8 joists but today when I was removing the old floor and subfloor, so far the joists are 12" oc, not 16" :) so that should help. The area is about 200 sqft.
What size screws should be used to reinforce the old 5/8" subfloor and the second layer of ply?

Depends on the thickness of the additional ply. Use screws that will go 3/4 of the length into the joist. So more likely you need 2 1/2" sub-floor screws. Just do not use drywall screws:!:

[patrob]

It is vintage but I got my prices mixed up, I think it might have been in the $5/sqft range.



What species & colour is it? You should post some pics after you are done :)

[canuckgirl]

Hi Patrob,

Thanks for answering all of these hardwood questions! I have Brazilian Walnut hardwood with aluminum oxide coating that I will be installing in my kitchen/hallway. How is the durability of this wood for a high traffic area?
Thanks!
Cheryl

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Thanks for answering all of these hardwood questions! I have Brazilian Walnut hardwood with aluminum oxide coating that I will be installing in my kitchen/hallway. How is the durability of this wood for a high traffic area?
Thanks!
Cheryl

You've chosen the hardest wood on the hardness scale & aluminum oxide is considered one of the best finishes. Who's the manufacturer? And who will be installing it, because it's very tricky to install due to it's hardness.

Even though the finish is aluminum oxide & if you are saying it will be a high traffic area, it will still wear over time as any other finish. You have to protect it with small area rugs by the sink especially. We all know it's doesn't look the greatest but manufacturers cover themselves telling you the same thing in case of warranty complaints.

Overall it's a beautiful wood :)

[csdh]

Great thread. I am looking for a little advice and hope someone can help. I am about to install hardwood on the main floor of my house. I already have the wood and I have noticed there is a bit more colour variation between planks than I would have expected. The wood is red oak with a natrual finish. Hence, my question is: Am I better to randomize the different colors throughout the floor or try to organize them together and gradually transition the shade aross the room? Which will look better in the end? Thanks in advance.

[patrob]

Great thread. I am looking for a little advice and hope someone can help. I am about to install hardwood on the main floor of my house. I already have the wood and I have noticed there is a bit more colour variation between planks than I would have expected. The wood is red oak with a natrual finish. Hence, my question is: Am I better to randomize the different colors throughout the floor or try to organize them together and gradually transition the shade aross the room? Which will look better in the end? Thanks in advance.

You have to mix it all together, otherwise you end up with spots of diff. shades. Unless you have enough wood to pick out the miscoloured boards & install it in a separate location & you won't mind the two diff. colour tones.

BTW, who's the manufacturer:?:

[csdh]

Ok. Thanks, that is what I thought and will actually make it easier to install. I believe the manufacturer is Imperial. It is from Brampton Hardwood and it was not that expensive, so I probably got what I paid for. That said, the grade is Select and Better and I thought it would have been more consistant. I have only opened one box so far so we will see if it is typical...

[patrob]

Ok. Thanks, that is what I thought and will actually make it easier to install. I believe the manufacturer is Imperial. It is from Brampton Hardwood and it was not that expensive, so I probably got what I paid for. That said, the grade is Select and Better and I thought it would have been more consistant. I have only opened one box so far so we will see if it is typical...

Imperial, St. Lawrence, Mercier (pretty much everything that Brampton Flooring sells) has high variations of colours. That's why they can offer lower prices to consumers but you do get what you pay for.

Usually Select & Better is called for a reason, so your colour variation should be a lot lower vs. other higher end manufacturers :idea:

May I ask what you paid for the wood :?:

[csdh]

I am not really that surpised. The only thing that irks me is the wood they have on display looks pretty uniform. I believe it was $4.19 sq/ft. It was a concious decision to not spend more money on the big names so I can't really complain. It will still look a lot better than the grundgy old carpet...

[patrob]

I am not really that surpised. The only thing that irks me is the wood they have on display looks pretty uniform. I believe it was $4.19 sq/ft. It was a concious decision to not spend more money on the big names so I can't really complain. It will still look a lot better than the grundgy old carpet...

Sure it will still look nice, especially when you had the old carpets before :)

Very rarely the stores install on their samples everything that comes out of the box & they pre- select the nicer boards just to sell the product. Especially at Brampton Flooring, their samples look quite beautiful but are not in reality :rolleyes:

[jandumm]

great thread :)

my question is about maintenance/cleaning of hardwood flooring...

we have dark espresso maple throughout the main floor - and I have a really tough time keeping it clean...it shows every speck of dust and streaks...right now i use a routine of vacuuming and then running a slightly damp mop over it...but its not working so well :(

what do you recommend for cleaning hardwood flooring? is it worthwhile to invest in the "Bona" floor cleaning system that i saw in last months' house and home magazine? or is there a cheaper alternative that will do the job well...

[patrob]

great thread :)

my question is about maintenance/cleaning of hardwood flooring...

we have dark espresso maple throughout the main floor - and I have a really tough time keeping it clean...it shows every speck of dust and streaks...right now i use a routine of vacuuming and then running a slightly damp mop over it...but its not working so well :(

what do you recommend for cleaning hardwood flooring? is it worthwhile to invest in the "Bona" floor cleaning system that i saw in last months' house and home magazine? or is there a cheaper alternative that will do the job well...

Any hardwood flooring store will carry a professional cleaning kit for hardwood floors with a spray solution. They work quite well & you just spray it on the cloth, not on the floor. Since you invested so much money into your hardwood floors, spending those few more bucks on the kit will be a great investment.

[spincycle]

Fantastic thread patrob! I've read all 11 pages. :)

A few questions sir:
1) I'm looking at installing an engineered hardwood in a condo. Do you have any brands (and stores which sell those brands) which you would recommend? Oh, did I mention I'm poor? :) I'm looking for best bang for the buck!
2) As a preferred underlay, what should I go with? Do you like the foam stuff or cork?
3) I've installed solid hardwood in homes a few times - but never the engineered stuff in a condo. Is there anything I should consider for this particular product? I know the installation is different (floating and glued), but any tips?

Thanks for your time patrob!




spin

[patrob]

Fantastic thread patrob! I've read all 11 pages. :)

A few questions sir:
1) I'm looking at installing an engineered hardwood in a condo. Do you have any brands (and stores which sell those brands) which you would recommend? Oh, did I mention I'm poor? :) I'm looking for best bang for the buck!
2) As a preferred underlay, what should I go with? Do you like the foam stuff or cork?
3) I've installed solid hardwood in homes a few times - but never the engineered stuff in a condo. Is there anything I should consider for this particular product? I know the installation is different (floating and glued), but any tips?

Thanks for your time patrob!


So now you're an expert after reading all the pages ;)

1. For engineered there is Satin Finish, Mirage & Vintage. There are all pretty much the same price +-. There is www.StansFlooring.com in Miss., www.Darmaga.com in Richmond Hill which I recommend.

2. As for underlay, you have to check out with your condo management. They usually have rules & a list of specific underlays required for their buildings. You can float the wood on any underlay, it gives you little bit of a hollow sound. You can glue it only on special underlays or cork. It makes it feel very solid.

3. Basics of installation is the same. It's just a diff. method of fastening the wood to the floor & of course the finish trim (reducers, T-molds) is little bit different. On engineered floors, you can only use moisture cured adhesive which is very expensive. Around $120 5/gal. pail which is good for about 200 ft.

Condo jobs are usually more expensive than reg. hardwood. That's why many people just end up doing laminate floors. So if you are on a tight budget, there is really no cheap way of doing this. The only thing you will save is the installation cost :)

[spincycle]

Condo jobs are usually more expensive than reg. hardwood. That's why many people just end up doing laminate floors. So if you are on a tight budget, there is really no cheap way of doing this. The only thing you will save is the installation cost :)

Yes, as I cost out this job the price is going up and up! Are there laminates avaliable which give a convincing look and feel of hardwood? I checked manufactures sites, and they always look great on the Internet - but when I see them in person... *barf* :)



spin

[patrob]

Yes, as I cost out this job the price is going up and up! Are there laminates avaliable which give a convincing look and feel of hardwood? I checked manufactures sites, and they always look great on the Internet - but when I see them in person... *barf* :)


I know what you mean, some laminates just look awful :cheesygri

But if you want top of the line laminate, then your 1st. choice should be Torlys. They even have a laminate with real wood veneer so you can still get that real wood feel. If you go with their laminate, you can also get single plank boards & their laminate does not give you that picture image, so the floors looks very realistic & have a grainy feel to replicate real wood.

www.Torlys.com

Hope this helps :)

[CSK'sMom]

Laminate is one of those things that you really get what you pay for spin. Go to several of the big box stores and flooring stores and have a look at what's available these days. The choices and quality in all the price ranges have come a long, long way...

[patrob]

Laminate is one of those things that you really get what you pay for spin. Go to several of the big box stores and flooring stores and have a look at what's available these days. The choices and quality in all the price ranges have come a long, long way...

+1

True, you do get what you pay for.

[spincycle]

Any other brands you'd recommend other than Torleys? They don't quiet have the colours I'm looking for in their 9mm product. I'm looking for dark browns and greys, single plank (various lengths if possible), with the beveled edge.

Thanks again!



spin

[patrob]

Any other brands you'd recommend other than Torleys? They don't quiet have the colours I'm looking for in their 9mm product. I'm looking for dark browns and greys, single plank (various lengths if possible), with the beveled edge.

Thanks again!


You can also try http://qs2006.quick-step.com/main.aspx?id=14.

Quick-Step is made by Torlys but maybe they have diff. choices.

Also http://www.quickstyle.com/home.php.

[patrob]

So has anyone installed their hardwood floors yet? Post your pics :)

[Quick_lude]

What species & colour is it? You should post some pics after you are done :)

Ok went by that store again yesterday and the floor we were looking at is the Pioneered line, White Oak, Vintage grade. $4.69 /sqft for the 3" width. They also had the 3 1/4 and 5" widths, for 4.79 and 4.99 I think. Are those good prices? :confused:
What's the difference between the Pioneered Domestic and Crafted Engineered? Can't find any explanation on the Vintage website.

[patrob]

Ok went by that store again yesterday and the floor we were looking at is the Pioneered line, White Oak, Vintage grade. $4.69 /sqft for the 3" width. They also had the 3 1/4 and 5" widths, for 4.79 and 4.99 I think. Are those good prices? :confused:
What's the difference between the Pioneered Domestic and Crafted Engineered? Can't find any explanation on the Vintage website.

It is a good price for Vintage. 'Vintage' grade is the 2nd grade.

The diff. between Pioneered & Crafted Eng. is Pioneered is solid wood & Crafted is engineered which is more stable & has a various installation methods, like glue down, float & nail.

[spincycle]

Hey Patrob,

I got a chance to visit a hardwood flooring store and I found that Torley's has a uniclick engineered hardwood floor which I can do a floating installation! My biggest concern with in engineered floor was the glue.. cost and mess. But this changes things.. it's installed floating, uniclick style! Have you used this product before? Any opinions on it? Also, Brampton Hardwood Flooring had their own click install brand, called, Continental Designs. There was a beautiful American Walnut in select and better for $5.49 a sq. ft. this a decent price? I'm a bit of a n00b!


Cheers,
spin

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

I got a chance to visit a hardwood flooring store and I found that Torley's has a uniclick engineered hardwood floor which I can do a floating installation! My biggest concern with in engineered floor was the glue.. cost and mess. But this changes things.. it's installed floating, uniclick style! Have you used this product before? Any opinions on it? Also, Brampton Hardwood Flooring had their own click install brand, called, Continental Designs. There was a beautiful American Walnut in select and better for $5.49 a sq. ft. this a decent price? I'm a bit of a n00b!


Have used the Torlys engineered and it does click very easily, no mess at all. You still have to get your underlay & find out from the condo management what is their min. requirement. I like the way Torlys is made, especially their lock system vs. all others that I installed. What price were you quoted for Torlys?

Never used the Continental Designs yet, so I can't comment. Is their engineered based on HDF or plywood core?

[jnmontario]

Whew - 12 pages but nobody's asked my question AFAIK. A great thread, but I need to know a few things since I'm almost finished paneling my walls (a nice T&G aspen harvested from the cottage with lots of spalting - I'll post again on the pics of reno's thread) and will move to the floor next.

I'm putting down bamboo I bought a few months ago on 5/8" OSB which has been screwed and glued to my engineered floor joists. My understanding is that hardwood should not be nailed through a pad of any kind - my dilemma - my floor joints have swollen due to exposure to the elements before I got my roof on. Do I plane the joints down first presumably? or is there another way to 'even out the bumps'?

Are there any tricks to laying T&G hardwood pieces on the OSB and assembling them before using the floornailer? I know to start in the doorway and radiate outwards but I'm not sure if there are tricks about spacing along the walls or anything like that.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TY in advance.

[patrob]

Whew - 12 pages but nobody's asked my question AFAIK. A great thread, but I need to know a few things since I'm almost finished paneling my walls (a nice T&G aspen harvested from the cottage with lots of spalting - I'll post again on the pics of reno's thread) and will move to the floor next.

I'm putting down bamboo I bought a few months ago on 5/8" OSB which has been screwed and glued to my engineered floor joists. My understanding is that hardwood should not be nailed through a pad of any kind - my dilemma - my floor joints have swollen due to exposure to the elements before I got my roof on. Do I plane the joints down first presumably? or is there another way to 'even out the bumps'?

Are there any tricks to laying T&G hardwood pieces on the OSB and assembling them before using the floornailer? I know to start in the doorway and radiate outwards but I'm not sure if there are tricks about spacing along the walls or anything like that.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TY in advance.

Yes, you can use a planer but make sure you punch in all the nails, you don't want to ruin your blades:lol:! You can also use an edger with a 16 or 24 grid paper (it's a sanding machine that sanders use around the edges of the floor)

It's a basic installation, spread your joints as far as possible, try not to repeat patterns & use common sense. If there is a piece that you don't like, pull it out before you nail it in because it will always bother you. The wood cannot touch your walls, leave some spacing (by the book they say 1/2") so the wood has room to expand. 3/8" space is fine but depends on the finishing trim (baseboard, quarter round).

Not sure what kind of pad you are referring to:?:

[issy]

has any one used "cork flooring ".
are their the same price as laminated flooring...

[patrob]

has any one used "cork flooring ".
are their the same price as laminated flooring...

Cork is usually double the price vs. good laminate. So far have only used Torlys cork which is beautiful but prices start around $5 sq. ft. plus... Cork is very easy on your feet, since it reflects warmth. It's a perfect perfect product for the cold basement floors & you can even install cork in your bathroom.

Here is a link to some cork examples:
http://www.torlys.com/Cork/GetInspired/tabid/436/language/en-US/default.aspx

Here are some pics of actual cork tiles installed over reg. tiles in the kitchen:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9452/1001071hv0.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1160/1001072fw2.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2999/1001074we4.jpg

[patrob]

Just noticed someone rated this thread 'terrible' :confused: :rolleyes:

Glad everyone else is finding all the information helpful :)

[spincycle]

Have used the Torlys engineered and it does click very easily, no mess at all. You still have to get your underlay & find out from the condo management what is their min. requirement. I like the way Torlys is made, especially their lock system vs. all others that I installed. What price were you quoted for Torlys?

Never used the Continental Designs yet, so I can't comment. Is their engineered based on HDF or plywood core?

The Torlys was about $5.50 a sq ft. for the cheaper engineered stuff (thin veneer, can't refinish). I think it was close to $7 for the thicker veneer. Both were nice, but didn't have the variation in colour in their walnut that the Continential Designs stuff had.

The Continential Designs backing material looked very similar to a regular solid hardwood, so I'm guessing it's a plywood. As it didn't have the fine partical look of HDF.

[patrob]

The Torlys was about $5.50 a sq ft. for the cheaper engineered stuff (thin veneer, can't refinish). I think it was close to $7 for the thicker veneer. Both were nice, but didn't have the variation in colour in their walnut that the Continential Designs stuff had.

The Continential Designs backing material looked very similar to a regular solid hardwood, so I'm guessing it's a plywood. As it didn't have the fine partical look of HDF.

Keep shopping around, call more places that sell Torlys (Stans' Flooring & Trust Flooring)

[valdez12]

I need to paint my house right after I get engineered exotic hardwood installed. Timing delays and availability made it this way.
Just wondering if someone has previous experience and could recommend whether I should buy a dehumidifier as the installers told me it is not ideal as latex paint will increase the humidity in the house A LOT hence wood COULD swell...

I've got a humidistat on my furnace with a humidifer so I can somewhat control the humidity by turning this down.

Should I buy a dehumidifier?

Other tips?

Thanks!

[patrob]

I need to paint my house right after I get engineered exotic hardwood installed. Timing delays and availability made it this way.
Just wondering if someone has previous experience and could recommend whether I should buy a dehumidifier as the installers told me it is not ideal as latex paint will increase the humidity in the house A LOT hence wood COULD swell...

I've got a humidistat on my furnace with a humidifer so I can somewhat control the humidity by turning this down.

Should I buy a dehumidifier?

Other tips?

Thanks!

No need to buy a de-humidifier, unless humidity is very high. Turn off your central humidifier and within days your humidity will go back to normal. Painting should not affect your hardwood floors, especially engineered. Buy yourself a small (portable) humidistat with temp. & just watch your humidity.

Hope this helps :)

[patrob]

What direction is correct for laying hardwood strip flooring in an upstairs hallway



I am looking for a little advice and hope someone can help. I am about to install hardwood on the main floor of my house.

Ok went by that store again yesterday and the floor we were looking at is the Pioneered line, White Oak, Vintage grade. $4.69 /sqft for the 3" width. They also had the 3 1/4 and 5" widths, for 4.79 and 4.99 I think.

Any updates :) Has anyone actually installed it yet, post some pics :D

[synaptech]

Just wanted to say thanks for your help in the other thread -- I didn't see there was a thread already for hardwood.

Just a continuation to that thread - do you know a ball park cost is to have hardwood installed (wood included)?

Thanks

[patrob]

Just wanted to say thanks for your help in the other thread -- I didn't see there was a thread already for hardwood.

Just a continuation to that thread - do you know a ball park cost is to have hardwood installed (wood included)?

Thanks

That's why I brought it up again so others can see it :)

Unfinished wood plus installation, plus finishing in the colour of your choice should be the same price or cents cheaper than good pre-finished. Either way it should not be more than $10 sq. ft. total incl tax.

Installation is around $2 sq. ft., wood can vary because of size, species & grade selection. Select & better or clear is the high grade & common or ranch is the low grade, so be careful. Sometimes when you're staining in medium colours try to get at least med. grade quality because the stain will bring out the diff. colours of the wood. For darker stains you can get aways with lower grades, but then you usually get more shorts. Don't sand fresh wood, make sure it's acclimatized.

The price of wood could be anything from $2 +++ Try calling that place I mentioned, they will be able to help you.

[canuckgirl]

Hi!

Our Brazilian Walnut is finally being installed on Saturday, I am sooo excited to see it and to be able to finally put my kitchen back together! I can't wait to see how the wood looks all put together. Our wood is from Vintage Hardwood flooring in Toronto. Will post pics when it's done!
Cheryl

[patrob]

Hi!

Our Brazilian Walnut is finally being installed on Saturday, I am sooo excited to see it and to be able to finally put my kitchen back together! I can't wait to see how the wood looks all put together. Our wood is from Vintage Hardwood flooring in Toronto. Will post pics when it's done!
Cheryl

It sure will look beautiful:) plus you have chosen the best there is! Please post some pics here once it's all done, so we can all admire it ;)

Are you doing the installation yourself?

[canuckgirl]

No, we are not doing the installation ourselves. We priced out the cost of renting all the tools and the wear and tear on blades (apparently it is worse with this very hard wood) plus our time and screw up costs, and it wasn't worth it. We made a deal with the installers and have taken up all old flooring down to the subfloor, removed all baseboards and appliances and bought the wood and underlayment ourselves and they are installing for $1.50 a sq ft. DH (painter) has worked alongside these these installers before (don't know the company name) and they do amazing work. We do a lot of DIY but don't want to risk it with a big investment. Thanks for the encouragement!
Cheryl

[patrob]

No, we are not doing the installation ourselves. We priced out the cost of renting all the tools and the wear and tear on blades (apparently it is worse with this very hard wood) plus our time and screw up costs, and it wasn't worth it. We made a deal with the installers and have taken up all old flooring down to the subfloor, removed all baseboards and appliances and bought the wood and underlayment ourselves and they are installing for $1.50 a sq ft. DH (painter) has worked alongside these these installers before (don't know the company name) and they do amazing work. We do a lot of DIY but don't want to risk it with a big investment. Thanks for the encouragement!
Cheryl

You sure have chosen the hardest wood available :D Brazilian Walnut is a PITA to install, so the price of $1.50 sq. ft. is pretty cheap & many installers usually charge more for exotics since they are harder to work with due to their hardness. Just make sure your installers use NAILS not staples :!: They also might have to pre-drill the planks against the wall, since the finishing nailer will not go through :idea:

[Tacoma]

Our dark walnut hardwood flooring installation is almost complete and then we realized our flooring contractor put in quarter rounds (used to transition between the baseboard and floor) that just had white primer and not painted and with exposed nails. When we raised this to our contractor, he said that it was up to us to paint and put fill to hide the nails as it's not their problem. Is this common? I thought it was part of the floor and thus the responsibility of the floor contractor.

Also at issue is what colour to paint the quarter rounds? Should it be the same colour as the baseboard or should it be stained to match the floor colour? Our contractor says recent trend is to paint them the same colour as the baseboard.

I'm a little bit pissed because we paid really big dollars for good finished flooring, but it's not really finished because we now have to paint or stain the quarter rounds ourselves. :mad:

[elmst200]

do you have pictures on what it looks like? how ugly it is? I, and I believe many others here, have no idea on what "quarter rounds" really mean.


Our dark walnut hardwood flooring installation is almost complete and then we realized our flooring contractor put in quarter rounds (used to transition between the baseboard and floor) that just had white primer and not painted and with exposed nails. When we raised this to our contractor, he said that it was up to us to paint and put fill to hide the nails as it's not their problem. Is this common? I thought it was part of the floor and thus the responsibility of the floor contractor.

Also at issue is what colour to paint the quarter rounds? Should it be the same colour as the baseboard or should it be stained to match the floor colour? Our contractor says recent trend is to paint them the same colour as the baseboard.

I'm a little bit pissed because we paid really big dollars for good finished flooring, but it's not really finished because we now have to paint or stain the quarter rounds ourselves. :mad:

[patrob]

Our dark walnut hardwood flooring installation is almost complete and then we realized our flooring contractor put in quarter rounds (used to transition between the baseboard and floor) that just had white primer and not painted and with exposed nails. When we raised this to our contractor, he said that it was up to us to paint and put fill to hide the nails as it's not their problem. Is this common? I thought it was part of the floor and thus the responsibility of the floor contractor.

Also at issue is what colour to paint the quarter rounds? Should it be the same colour as the baseboard or should it be stained to match the floor colour? Our contractor says recent trend is to paint them the same colour as the baseboard.

I'm a little bit pissed because we paid really big dollars for good finished flooring, but it's not really finished because we now have to paint or stain the quarter rounds ourselves. :mad:

No nails should stick out (safety hazard) & the installer should fill in the holes from the nails. But the painting is usually done by the owners. But it really depends on what you both agreed to before the job started.

If the quarter round is already primed, I would just paint it to match the baseboards. I personally don't like the look of stained quarter rounds, unless all your other trim is stained.

The best solution is to paint the quarter round before the installation, so you don't mess up the floors. Then all you have to do is small touch ups. But if you don’t have a steady hand, just tape all the way around & take your time painting.

[patrob]

I, and I believe many others here, have no idea on what "quarter rounds" really mean.

Here is the video for the original 'quarter round' ;) Some people also install door stop, a shoe mould or a cove mould but they all call it "quarter round".

http://www.askthebuilder.com/Quarter_Round_Video.shtml

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/fantastic_03/IMG_0080.jpg

[dimitry]

Hello Patrob, so we have a big dilemna. Our contractor told us that he will not warranty the installation if we choose Jatoba since its an exotic wood and has serious issues in our climate. We like the Jatoba copper finish from http://www.acadianflooring.com/ per the gc's direction.

We have two questions:

1. Is Jatoba really that prone to buckling and shrking in the Toronto climate?
2. Anyone ever hear of Acadian Flooring and if they are reputable?

[patrob]

Hello Patrob, so we have a big dilemna. Our contractor told us that he will not warranty the installation if we choose Jatoba since its an exotic wood and has serious issues in our climate. We like the Jatoba copper finish from http://www.acadianflooring.com/ per the gc's direction.

We have two questions:

1. Is Jatoba really that prone to buckling and shrking in the Toronto climate?
2. Anyone ever hear of Acadian Flooring and if they are reputable?

Jatoba is a little more prone to cracking when the humidity is too low. But if you keep the humidity steady at 45-50% it will minimize the cracking problems.

Anyone who would tell you that, I would not want them to install my floors, since they don't feel confident working with this type of wood. Why take any chances... Also Jatoba should be nailed only, no staples!

Regarding Acadian Flooring here is a link to someone who said to stay away from them after his bad experience.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514103&page=2&highlight=acadian+flooring

[jamied]

We're renovating an older home and want to install hardwood floors in a large living/dining room that's about 15'x25'. The room's floor currently has 4 levels - original plank subfloor, original hardwood, new thin subfloor and finally a parquet floor. Following the advice of a few contractors, we're taking off the existing parquet floor and it's thin subfloor and leaving the original hardwood and plank subfloor. We're going to "glue and screw" 3/4" ply as a new subfloor before having a new hardwood floor installed. The only problem is that the floor is pretty uneven and we have to level it off under the plywood. We've been told by one flooring contractor to use pieces of linoleum under the 3/4" ply to level it off. However, we're uncertain of this as it seems that it wouldn't allow a "tight" fit of the new plywood subfloor to the old floor. Wouldn't there be gaps left that would potentially introduce bounce? Also, it seems like it would take a long time to get it right - continually lifting the plywood to place linoleum shims under it, and having to ensure that every piece of ply is exactly level at the edges where it meets the next board.

Is there an alternative or a different strategy we should be considering? We actually don't mind if the floor is slightly uneven - it's par for the course in 100+ year-old homes. We just don't want the hardwood installation to fail because of uneveness.

BTW, Great thread - thanks for sharing your knowledge..

[patrob]

We're renovating an older home and want to install hardwood floors in a large living/dining room that's about 15'x25'. The room's floor currently has 4 levels - original plank subfloor, original hardwood, new thin subfloor and finally a parquet floor. Following the advice of a few contractors, we're taking off the existing parquet floor and it's thin subfloor and leaving the original hardwood and plank subfloor. We're going to "glue and screw" 3/4" ply as a new subfloor before having a new hardwood floor installed. The only problem is that the floor is pretty uneven and we have to level it off under the plywood. We've been told by one flooring contractor to use pieces of linoleum under the 3/4" ply to level it off. However, we're uncertain of this as it seems that it wouldn't allow a "tight" fit of the new plywood subfloor to the old floor. Wouldn't there be gaps left that would potentially introduce bounce? Also, it seems like it would take a long time to get it right - continually lifting the plywood to place linoleum shims under it, and having to ensure that every piece of ply is exactly level at the edges where it meets the next board.

Is there an alternative or a different strategy we should be considering? We actually don't mind if the floor is slightly uneven - it's par for the course in 100+ year-old homes. We just don't want the hardwood installation to fail because of uneveness.

BTW, Great thread - thanks for sharing your knowledge..

Let me start with your flooring contractor, where did he get his training from The Red Green show :rolleyes::cheesygri You should seriously reconsider your flooring contractor :|

To be honest with that many levels of sub-floors, you should remove all 3 layers of floor down to the original plywood for a proper fix. If you have any squeaks, you will never get rid of them if you leave the old floor. If you are doing all this, might as well do it right. Don't do a 'Mickey Mouse' job...

You can level it with diff. thicknesses of plywood & shims. Once that's done, you install the final plywood to make it true straight. Then your new hardwood floors.

[macbcomm]

Patrob, thanks for this great thread.

When installing hardwood after closing what do you suggest to get the builder to do that will make the installation easier/cheaper (e.g. raise the baseboards, 3/4" nosing for stairs, ...)?

[patrob]

Patrob, thanks for this great thread.

When installing hardwood after closing what do you suggest to get the builder to do that will make the installation easier/cheaper (e.g. raise the baseboards, 3/4" nosing for stairs, ...)?

I'm glad you find it helpful :)

You can raise the baseboards to 3/4" or 1", it will make your baseboards look higher. Make sure your nosings are set for 3/4". Ask your builder if he could supply you with couple of pieces of the same style quarter round as the rest of your house. The flooring installer might not match the exact same style later.

[clueless]

I was at my local Rona store, and I liked their Kempas/Kampas floor samples. What kind of flooring is this? What's the difference between Kempas vs Kampas?

btw, Thanks for starting a great thread ...

[patrob]

I was at my local Rona store, and I liked their Kempas/Kampas floor samples. What kind of flooring is this? What's the difference between Kempas vs Kampas?

btw, Thanks for starting a great thread ...

Never installed Kempas wood yet so can't really comment. Kempas is an exotic wood, harder than oak & similar to Jatoba.

[jamied]

Let me start with your flooring contractor, where did he get his training from The Red Green show :rolleyes::cheesygri You should seriously reconsider your flooring contractor :|

To be honest with that many levels of sub-floors, you should remove all 3 layers of floor down to the original plywood for a proper fix. If you have any squeaks, you will never get rid of them if you leave the old floor. If you are doing all this, might as well do it right. Don't do a 'Mickey Mouse' job...

You can level it with diff. thicknesses of plywood & shims. Once that's done, you install the final plywood to make it true straight. Then your new hardwood floors.

Thanks for your reply. Our flooring contractor (potential - haven't actually hired his company yet) is one of the owners of a large hard-wood flooring company that has been around for over 30 years. He came out and looked at our "unique" situation and in his defence, I should note he said that removing the original hardwood (leaving just the original plank subfloor) after removing the parquet and it's plywood subfloor, might not be a bad idea though he didn't think it entirely necessary. On any account, we're going to remove it.

...Still brings me back to asking what the strategy is of leveling off an uneven plank subfloor using plywood & shims. Won't this leave hollow depressions that themselves will introduce squeaks and bounce? (Maybe this is why two different contractors have said they wanted to level the dips/depressions and slants with self-leveling compound. Don't worry - we're not going to do this.)
Seriously, won't leveling every piece of plywood with bits and pieces under it in different places and different thicknesses take forever? Maybe I'm missing something...:confused:

[patrob]

...Still brings me back to asking what the strategy is of leveling off an uneven plank subfloor using plywood & shims. Won't this leave hollow depressions that themselves will introduce squeaks and bounce? (Maybe this is why two different contractors have said they wanted to level the dips/depressions and slants with self-leveling compound. Don't worry - we're not going to do this.)
Seriously, won't leveling every piece of plywood with bits and pieces under it in different places and different thicknesses take forever? Maybe I'm missing something...:confused:

Yes it takes a long time to properly lever the sub-floor. First you have to find high & low spots. The best thing I find is to use a straight edge (12 ft. if possible) Re-screw you orig. sub-floor, make sure no squeaks. You said plank sub-floor, 2 screws per board on joist. On low spots fill in with shims & plywood, glue it, nail it. High spots shave it off if possible then install your new ply (screw it).

If your original floors are squeaking, you will never fix the squeaks if you cover it with plywood.

Here are 2 pics that show low spot filled in with wide shims & high spot shaved off.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6769/1000997cropad3.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1360/1000999cropkz5.jpg

[RRKnight]

Any comments on Bamboo floors? Also where can I get them for cheap but good quality:D ?

[patrob]

Any comments on Bamboo floors? Also where can I get them for cheap but good quality:D ?

Bamboo flooring is close in durability as any hardwood flooring. It will scratch & dent. From what I have seen it has a tendency to scratch like maple, even though it's harder than oak. It shows more defects because of the smooth grain.

Bamboo is a grass & has a straw like structure & it's a lot harder to refinish than regular hardwood. These days you have low chances of finding a re-finisher to re-sand & finish your bamboo floors.

Goodfellow makes some pretty good bamboo flooring. Most of it comes from China & even though they state it's a 3/4" or 5/8" thick, in reality it's not. Subtract 1/16". If you plan to install it yourself, it's important to choose the right nailer, since the standard hardwood flooring nailer/stapler is not meant for bamboo.

But if you want cheap, it will not come with quality. Your floors take a lot of abuse so don't cheap out.

[RRKnight]

Thanks, I just realize that you are on the hawthornevillager forum too. Hahahaha. OK do you recommend getting the bamboo floors from brampton hardwood flooring? It's going for $2.99 a sqft.

[patrob]

Thanks, I just realize that you are on the hawthornevillager forum too. Hahahaha. OK do you recommend getting the bamboo floors from brampton hardwood flooring? It's going for $2.99 a sqft.

Took you a while :D

Not very fond of them :| They don't have the best cust. service & they tend to offer lower grade products. Price seems OK, but shop around.

[BigUps]

Thanks for this informative thread patrob.

1) How would you rate the different hardwood manufacturers? (Vintage, Mirage, Satin Finish, etc.)

2) My builder is quoting us $11.50/sq ft for Satin Finish floors. How much cheaper would it be to get the hardwood flooring done after closing, factoring in the extra charges for carpet removal, and the additional 1/4" multiply on the 5/8" OSB subfloor?

3) Can you recommend any hardwood dealers and installers in the Markham area?

Thanks in advance! :razz:

[patrob]

Thanks for this informative thread patrob.

1) How would you rate the different hardwood manufacturers? (Vintage, Mirage, Satin Finish, etc.)

2) My builder is quoting us $11.50/sq ft for Satin Finish floors. How much cheaper would it be to get the hardwood flooring done after closing, factoring in the extra charges for carpet removal, and the additional 1/4" multiply on the 5/8" OSB subfloor?

3) Can you recommend any hardwood dealers and installers in the Markham area?

Thanks in advance! :razz:

I would rate Vintage & Mirage 1st. with Satin Finish 2nd.

You can get Vintage product installed for less than $10 sq. ft. total, depending on the species, colour, width... The cost of the multiply is around $15 plus tax at HD for 4x4 size & install cost around $.75 sq. ft.

PM sent with the contact info :)

[patrob]

Our Brazilian Walnut is finally being installed on Saturday, I am sooo excited to see it and to be able to finally put my kitchen back together! I can't wait to see how the wood looks all put together. Our wood is from Vintage Hardwood flooring in Toronto. Will post pics when it's done!
Cheryl

So did the walnut floors get installed? Post some pics :)

[elmst200]

There are a lot of discussions on the replacement of carpet with hardwood floor. It seems removing carpet is not difficult and the cost for the installation is about $2 per square feet.

How about tiles? My first floor hall way is all tiles and I am thinking of replacing them with hardwood floor. Is it difficult and costy to remove tiles (compared with carpet) and replace them with hardwood floor?

[be4959]

We have parquet throughout our second floor.

My options are :

1. Remove parquet, however once the parquet comes off, there is still glue underneath and attached to the particule board subfloor which make it uneven. What do I do to make it even? Rent a sander to sand it down? or don't care about the mess and install new plywood subfloor before laying new hardwood? If so, would 1/4 inch plywood suffice?

2. Install new hardwood directly on top of the parquet.

3. Install plywood on top of the parquet and lay hardwood. Again, would 1/4 inch plywood be enough or I need thicker?


Would love to hear the pros and cons of each option.

Also what kind of enginered hardwood is best suited for the basement? Can I glue engineered hardwood directly to the concreate or what other material do i need? What do i do about the slight uneveness in the basement concreat floor?



Thank you!

[patrob]

There are a lot of discussions on the replacement of carpet with hardwood floor. It seems removing carpet is not difficult and the cost for the installation is about $2 per square feet.

How about tiles? My first floor hall way is all tiles and I am thinking of replacing them with hardwood floor. Is it difficult and costy to remove tiles (compared with carpet) and replace them with hardwood floor?

It's very hard to set a price for removal of tiles. Usually guys charge by hour, it depends if it's installed on scratch, drypack, which glue was used, etc. But it's approx. $40/hr. +- with a max. price.

It's a messy job, difficult & you have to properly dispose of the garbage and nobody likes to do it.

[patrob]

We have parquet throughout our second floor.

My options are :

1. Remove parquet, however once the parquet comes off, there is still glue underneath and attached to the particule board subfloor which make it uneven. What do I do to make it even? Rent a sander to sand it down? or don't care about the mess and install new plywood subfloor before laying new hardwood? If so, would 1/4 inch plywood suffice?

2. Install new hardwood directly on top of the parquet.

3. Install plywood on top of the parquet and lay hardwood. Again, would 1/4 inch plywood be enough or I need thicker?

Would love to hear the pros and cons of each option.

Also what kind of enginered hardwood is best suited for the basement? Can I glue engineered hardwood directly to the concreate or what other material do i need? What do i do about the slight uneveness in the basement concreat floor?


1. You can rent an edger or a small sander and run it over the sub-floor. At the same time with the same machine you can use it to take off the high spots in your sub-floor to level it. Then you can install the 1/4" ply if you want.

2. Everybody will tell you different things so the choice is yours, have seen it done both ways without any problems:
- never cover old floors
- but then if your parquet if not coming up & is very solid & you have no
squeaks, you have a pretty good solid sub-floor

3. If you install plywood on top of parquet you are dramatically increasing your height difference with tiles, nosings, trim & there is totally no need to do that.

Yes, engineered can be glued directly on concrete. You have to use a proper adhesive (moisture cured) specified by the floor manufacturer.
There is a slope in the basement for a reason, but if you have a bad hump you might have to grind it down. But it's hard to say without seeing it. For very un-even sub-floors use 1/4" x 1/4" square notch trowel, it will use a lot of glue but it will give you more reassurance that the floor will have more contact.

There is a lot of diff. manufacturers but preferably I highly recommend Vintage.

Here is a link & you can read more about it.
http://www.vintageflooring.com/product_ce_6.php

Hope this helps :)

[clueless]

Other than the obvious difference in looks due to the grain, what are some considerations when choosing between the two? hardness? durability? ease of maintenance? etc ...
Thanks!

[patrob]

Other than the obvious difference in looks due to the grain, what are some considerations when choosing between the two? hardness? durability? ease of maintenance? etc ...
Thanks!

Maintenance/durability will be the same, no matter what species you choose. Maple has a more modern/clean look & a nice smooth finish. And it's also harder than oak but because of it' smooth finish, it tends to show more defects/scratches.

Oak is a little more stable than maple, meaning it contracts less in the heating season.

We had maple in our previous house & it was beautiful until the kids came:D>:( So no more maple for us even though I really like maple floors. This time around it's hand scraped oak, so even if the kids do make dents & scratches, it won't show as much ;)

[jamied]

Yes it takes a long time to properly lever the sub-floor. ...

I was afraid of that.>:(

What would be a reasonable amount to pay to have the leveling done in a 15' x 25' sq ft room as part of the flooring installation? I imagine every job would be different, but is there a general daily or per-board (ply) rate we could go off of? (We were told by one flooring contractor that it's $35/board labour for screwing down 4'x8' 3/4" ply not including the cost of the ply or leveling - makes me think that leveling will be costly...)

Thanks for your ongoing help and advice with this.

j

[patrob]

I was afraid of that.>:(

What would be a reasonable amount to pay to have the leveling done in a 15' x 25' sq ft room as part of the flooring installation? I imagine every job would be different, but is there a general daily or per-board (ply) rate we could go off of? (We were told by one flooring contractor that it's $35/board labour for screwing down 4'x8' 3/4" ply not including the cost of the ply or leveling - makes me think that leveling will be costly...)

Thanks for your ongoing help and advice with this.

j

It should cost you around $40 hr. (+-) plus the cost of material for leveling. But it all depends on the severity of leveling. Installation of plywood is around $.80 sq. ft. especially for 3/4" screw-down.

Yes it's costly but if it has to be done, you have to do it & do it right.

[synaptech]

I just wanted to thank patrob again for the help and advice.

The picture below is a ~96 year old hardwood floor (yup look close there's a floor in there) I unearthed in my house that was under 6 layers of flooring material (lots of nails and staples!!!). Original hardwood only covered half the floor. I tore out the multiple layers of plywood, tile, and carpet myself, but had a local business do the refinishing and install (www.refinishingisallwedo.com). This is the result after refinishing (this was taken this evening with a camera flash - in sunlight they look even better).

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9488/rfdfloorrawbj3.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5340/rfdfloordonebp0.jpg


The raw vs refinished door threshold:

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/485/doorrawvo1.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/627/doordonexj6.jpg


Where the wood stopped and was damaged vs repaired and refinished:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8246/cornerrawhw1.jpghttp://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4609/rfd4ym6.jpg

[Quick_lude]

All you need to add to your existing OSB is 1/4" multiply, no need to go 1/2". Make sure you re-screw your sub-floors before you add the plywood.

.

Getting close to the flooring phase of the project, just wanted to know if the second layer has to be plywood or can I get away with osb?

[patrob]

I just wanted to thank patrob again for the help and advice.


Wow, looking good:) You just never know what kind of treasure you will find underneath...

What a difference, maybe this will inspire others to do the same :D

[patrob]

Getting close to the flooring phase of the project, just wanted to know if the second layer has to be plywood or can I get away with osb?

No, use only multiply plywood.

www.multiplyplywood.com/home.html

[Quick_lude]

who sells it? Loews?

[patrob]

who sells it? Loews?

For sure HD & Rona, have not purchased it at Lowes yet so not 100% sure they have it.

[rfd_is_cool]

can anyone recommend someone for restaining hardwood in markham? we have about 1000 sqft of hardwood that needs to be restained. please PM me.

what's the going rate these days? $/sqft

thanks :!:

[patrob]

can anyone recommend someone for restaining hardwood in markham? we have about 1000 sqft of hardwood that needs to be restained. please PM me.



PM sent ;)

[Quick_lude]

For sure HD & Rona, have not purchased it at Lowes yet so not 100% sure they have it.

Regarding the second layer, do you recommend to position the plywood in the same way as it's recommended for stone? It's explained here:
http://www.johnbridge.com/images/mike2/For%20Liberry%20Stuff/Underlayment-Nielsen-Woeste-0604.pdf..pdf


The only difference is I'll glue it down and HIT the joists with the screws as opposed to missing them which is required for stone.

Thank you.

Jarek

[patrob]

Regarding the second layer, do you recommend to position the plywood in the same way as it's recommended for stone? It's explained here:
http://www.johnbridge.com/images/mike2/For%20Liberry%20Stuff/Underlayment-Nielsen-Woeste-0604.pdf..pdf

The only difference is I'll glue it down and HIT the joists with the screws as opposed to missing them which is required for stone.

Thank you.

Jarek

The easiest way to explain is to install it like brick joint pattern but when you are starting, do not start with a full sheet on a full sheet of existing plywood. So you offset the new plywood with the existing. No joints on joints.

[Shinshi]

I've read all these posts this morning. Whew! Learned a lot along the way, thank you!

I have a number of questions in regards to hardwood installation & choices:

I have a bungalow with engineered 11 7/8" deep joists spaced at 24" OC and the longest span is 18 feet. There is 23/32" Sturd-I-Floor on top of the joists with 3/8" particle board on top of that and then linoleum. The joists run the length of the house and thus down the hallway from the front entrance. From what I understand and have read, installing the hardwood across the joists is the preferred method. I'd really prefer not to install the hardwood across the joists in the hallway. What about installing the hardwood at an angle? I expect I'd need to remove the 3/8" particle board and put down 1/2" plywood and hardwood on top of that. However, I am still concerned about the 24" OC joists not giving enough support. Any recommendations here?

Another question is in regards to the building code. I understand that as of September 2007 the building code in Calgary, Alberta states that there can not be any more than 1/4" difference in stair riser heights. If I raise the flooring on the main floor by installing hardwood I think I'd also have to rebuild the stairs to the basement to meet code. Has anyone heard or had to deal with this?

We have oak trim and cabinets in our house currently. We'd like to go with a dark hardwood which we thought would look best with all this oak, Any recommendations on what looks good with oak? Would a dark hardwood look best?

[sleepyguy]

Wow, great refinish job! How much was refinish vs. going-new? -sg

[synaptech]

Wow, great refinish job! How much was refinish vs. going-new? -sg

sg, not sure who the question is directed towards, but since I recently had mine refinished I'll give you my answer. I know it won't help much, but it really depends on the quality and material. While you can buy red oak flooring, it will never be the original floor, nor will it be the same quality as 90+ year old oak (difficult to get the lengths too - dinning room has single boards 10+feet). Having said that, and using patrob's estimate of $10/sqrft to have the hardwood installed and finished, it would have cost 1200 sqrft x $10/sqrft = $12000 for new. I paid much less than that. I hesitate to give actual costs because we had a bunch of repairs and ~170 sqrft of new hardwood installed so my price won't give provide an accurate $/sqrft.

[patrob]

I've read all these posts this morning. Whew! Learned a lot along the way, thank you!

I have a number of questions in regards to hardwood installation & choices:

I have a bungalow with engineered 11 7/8" deep joists spaced at 24" OC and the longest span is 18 feet. There is 23/32" Sturd-I-Floor on top of the joists with 3/8" particle board on top of that and then linoleum. The joists run the length of the house and thus down the hallway from the front entrance. From what I understand and have read, installing the hardwood across the joists is the preferred method. I'd really prefer not to install the hardwood across the joists in the hallway. What about installing the hardwood at an angle? I expect I'd need to remove the 3/8" particle board and put down 1/2" plywood and hardwood on top of that. However, I am still concerned about the 24" OC joists not giving enough support. Any recommendations here?

Another question is in regards to the building code. I understand that as of September 2007 the building code in Calgary, Alberta states that there can not be any more than 1/4" difference in stair riser heights. If I raise the flooring on the main floor by installing hardwood I think I'd also have to rebuild the stairs to the basement to meet code. Has anyone heard or had to deal with this?

We have oak trim and cabinets in our house currently. We'd like to go with a dark hardwood which we thought would look best with all this oak, Any recommendations on what looks good with oak? Would a dark hardwood look best?

Regarding the installation of the floor across the joists, diagonal (45 deg.) is equivalent to across. You don't have to install 1/2", 1/4" multiply is fine. That will reduce the height diff. on the stairs. What kind of particle board are you referring to, do you mean aspenite or OSB?

Regarding the stairs, all stairs have to be equal in height. But the 1st & last step can be slightly off due to renovations, upgrades & some flooring changes. Look closer into the building code or even call a building inspector about the exact height requirement. So far never had a problem here in GTA.

Regarding the colour choice for the hardwood, anything in medium to dark brown will look great. In the end, it's all about what you like. If you don't like the oak trim, you can always re-paint it.

[patrob]

How much was refinish vs. going-new? -sg

Cost of re-finishing is a lot lower than going new. If you have good floors that can be re-finished you should consider that option first. It's a big saving & you can always pick the colour of your choice.

$10 sq. ft. is approx. the maximum price you will pay for new wood supplied & installed.

[sleepyguy]

That's cool if you don't want to post actual cost, yes the question was directed at you.

Thanks Patrob, yeah you pm'd me about pricing for new floors. Decisions decisions. -sg

sg, not sure who the question is directed towards, but since I recently had mine refinished I'll give you my answer. I know it won't help much, but it really depends on the quality and material. While you can buy red oak flooring, it will never be the original floor, nor will it be the same quality as 90+ year old oak (difficult to get the lengths too - dinning room has single boards 10+feet). Having said that, and using patrob's estimate of $10/sqrft to have the hardwood installed and finished, it would have cost 1200 sqrft x $10/sqrft = $12000 for new. I paid much less than that. I hesitate to give actual costs because we had a bunch of repairs and ~170 sqrft of new hardwood installed so my price won't give provide an accurate $/sqrft.

[Shinshi]

Regarding the installation of the floor across the joists, diagonal (45 deg.) is equivalent to across. You don't have to install 1/2", 1/4" multiply is fine. That will reduce the height diff. on the stairs. What kind of particle board are you referring to, do you mean aspenite or OSB?

Regarding the stairs, all stairs have to be equal in height. But the 1st & last step can be slightly off due to renovations, upgrades & some flooring changes. Look closer into the building code or even call a building inspector about the exact height requirement. So far never had a problem here in GTA.

Regarding the colour choice for the hardwood, anything in medium to dark brown will look great. In the end, it's all about what you like. If you don't like the oak trim, you can always re-paint it.

Ok. Glad to hear that I can at least install the hardwood in a diagonal. If you figure 1/4" multiply is fine, that will definately reduce the height difference when it is installed. I didn't know what multiply was until I looked it up. Perhaps I missed reading about it in an earlier post.

I'm not sure if the wood is OSB or Aspenite. I've not had any of the floor torn up yet, so I have only seen it edge on at the furnace vents.

I had been told by a local building inspector that I could not put in a subfloor without redoing the stairs. Apparently this is a new code that just came in last year. I did go to the library and read the code book, but did not find any mention of it. However, somewhere I recall reading it elsewhere, but I didn't bookmark that page.

Thanks for the feedback and confirmation on colour. I think we will go with a medium brown stained Maple.

[patrob]

Thanks for the feedback and confirmation on colour. I think we will go with a medium brown stained Maple.

I feel the maple floors will not go very well with your oak trim unless you plan to repaint it. I think it's best if you choose oak, ash or hickory to keep with the grain of the oak wood. If you have oak stairs, they are ok with maple floors but oak trim & baseboards will definitely clash.

[Shinshi]

I feel the maple floors will not go very well with your oak trim unless you plan to repaint it. I think it's best if you choose oak, ash or hickory to keep with the grain of the oak wood. If you have oak stairs, they are ok with maple floors but oak trim & baseboards will definitely clash.

I'm surprised you think the oak trim & baseboards would clash with the maple floors. I had thought the same grain would be too much. The maple would show some grain when stained a medium or even less with a dark colour. The exact colour we were considering is Mirage's Maple Truffle (http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/stylises_sweet_erable_truffle.html) in their engineered product.

I'll have to spend some time thinking about this colour & wood choice some more.

[hugh_da_man]

I feel the maple floors will not go very well with your oak trim unless you plan to repaint it. I think it's best if you choose oak, ash or hickory to keep with the grain of the oak wood. If you have oak stairs, they are ok with maple floors but oak trim & baseboards will definitely clash.

hmm...do you think hickory floors would clash with maple cabinets? I thought the grains in hickory and maple were complimentary, not hickory and oak...

[patrob]

I'm surprised you think the oak trim & baseboards would clash with the maple floors. I had thought the same grain would be too much. The maple would show some grain when stained a medium or even less with a dark colour. The exact colour we were considering is Mirage's Maple Truffle (http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/collections/stylises_sweet_erable_truffle.html) in their engineered product.

I'll have to spend some time thinking about this colour & wood choice some more.

Maple has no grain or very little. Especially in dark colour it's all hidden & very uniform vs. oak. Unless your trim is darker than the floors, it will be ok. But if your trim is a honey colour, it will def. clash, especially with the Truffle colour. Your trim & baseboard is an accent between your floors & the rest.

How about you post a pic of your trim/baseboards...

[patrob]

hmm...do you think hickory floors would clash with maple cabinets? I thought the grains in hickory and maple were complimentary, not hickory and oak...

Hickory grain is very, very similar to oak, it even takes the stain the same way. Because hickory is harder than oak, it shows smoother. Kitchens with maple cabinets are fine with any species of hardwood floors.

[musk]

Patrob,

what are your thoughts on tigerwood? i am taken by the color variation and character but do not know much about it.

Any thoughts on Huron Hardwood floors?

Thanks

[patrob]

Patrob,

what are your thoughts on tigerwood? i am taken by the color variation and character but do not know much about it.

Any thoughts on Huron Hardwood floors?

Thanks

Tigerwood is a very nice exotic wood and very hard @ 2,160 hardness on the Janka Scale. If you like the colour variations, then it's a great choice. Also overtime the tigerwood will change colour slightly to a darker tone but not by much.

Not familiar with Huron hardwood.

[patrob]

...I thought the grains in hickory and maple were complimentary, not hickory and oak...

The best way to explain the differences in the grain is to see actual pictures side by side.
I have attached 4 pics of diff. species of wood: oak, maple, hickory & ash.

See if anyone can tell me which one is which :?: Might be fun guessing because even the professionals sometimes get confused :D


1). http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/hickorychivas.jpg
2). http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/whiteoakcambridge.jpg
3). http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/ashfrangelico.jpg
4). http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/mapleoxford.jpg

[MrPannus]

Firstly, I'd like to thank patrob for all of your insight into this thread; I've spent the last hour of my life reading all these posts.

My wife is looking to install laminate flooring in our 540 sq-ft condo (she's on vacation this week, an I'm basically useless at anything remotely useful around the house). It would go in the main living room, which is about 200 sq ft total, and quite irregularly shaped in some spots. We've seen some laminate flooring which we'd liked when we'd seen them at various trade shows, and would appreciate the extra durability. We're going to be living here another 1.5 years or so until we move out, but the carpet is getting pretty run down, and she's threatening to revolt unless we do something about it.

So I had a few questions:

1. I can tell that those in the know from this thread aren't huge laminate fans, but given the punishment inflicted on our floors, as well as budget, we're going to want to stick with them. We were originally going to hire someone to do the work for us, but there's so much heavy and large furniture in the living room that there's no way to move it all out at once, and thus we'd have to work in pieces, which would be unlikely to happen if we hired someone. Would you recommend against DIY for a room with lots of little complicated corners?

2. I'm a big home theater buff, and I have wires running along the edges of the room. Could we hide the wires behind the 1/4 round mouldings (currently hiding under the edge of the carpet)?

3. In the same vein, we'd want high soundproofing underlayment so we don't get any complaints. Any recommendations on FIIC 60 or greater underlayment? Rona has FIIC 60 underlayment for $40/100 sq feet.

4. Will my wife likely lose fingers in the process of cutting the different corner pieces? I'd really like her to keep all of her bits intact, and I dunno if I'm a good judge of how safe all of this is.

Sorry for all the questions; I really tried to read up as much as I could before I posted. Thanks!

[patrob]

Firstly, I'd like to thank patrob for all of your insight into this thread; I've spent the last hour of my life reading all these posts.

My wife is looking to install laminate flooring in our 540 sq-ft condo (she's on vacation this week, an I'm basically useless at anything remotely useful around the house). It would go in the main living room, which is about 200 sq ft total, and quite irregularly shaped in some spots. We've seen some laminate flooring which we'd liked when we'd seen them at various trade shows, and would appreciate the extra durability. We're going to be living here another 1.5 years or so until we move out, but the carpet is getting pretty run down, and she's threatening to revolt unless we do something about it.

So I had a few questions:

1. I can tell that those in the know from this thread aren't huge laminate fans, but given the punishment inflicted on our floors, as well as budget, we're going to want to stick with them. We were originally going to hire someone to do the work for us, but there's so much heavy and large furniture in the living room that there's no way to move it all out at once, and thus we'd have to work in pieces, which would be unlikely to happen if we hired someone. Would you recommend against DIY for a room with lots of little complicated corners?

2. I'm a big home theater buff, and I have wires running along the edges of the room. Could we hide the wires behind the 1/4 round mouldings (currently hiding under the edge of the carpet)?

3. In the same vein, we'd want high soundproofing underlayment so we don't get any complaints. Any recommendations on FIIC 60 or greater underlayment? Rona has FIIC 60 underlayment for $40/100 sq feet.

4. Will my wife likely lose fingers in the process of cutting the different corner pieces? I'd really like her to keep all of her bits intact, and I dunno if I'm a good judge of how safe all of this is.

Sorry for all the questions; I really tried to read up as much as I could before I posted. Thanks!

You don't have too much choice for a condo, so laminate is a good stylish alternative. Just try to get something nice looking, don't just go for the cheapest stuff, because when you will be selling, others might see it a cheap makeover.

Every laminate is made for a DIY project. Some of them are harder to install & others are easier. If you don't have too many cables, yes you can run them under the baseboard behind the quarter round, just be careful when you nail the quarter round.

As for the sound proofing underlay, you have to check with your condo management for their requirement. But the FIIC 60 is pretty good. Also cork is a good underlay for sound & warmth.

Looks like you have a very handy wife ;) The safest saw for a DIY is a jigsaw & you can cut pretty much everything. Table saw is a lot faster but if you are not confident using it, then I suggest you don't. I recommend keeping 10 digits :)

[Shinshi]

Maple has no grain or very little. Especially in dark colour it's all hidden & very uniform vs. oak. Unless your trim is darker than the floors, it will be ok. But if your trim is a honey colour, it will def. clash, especially with the Truffle colour. Your trim & baseboard is an accent between your floors & the rest.

How about you post a pic of your trim/baseboards...

We have considered painting the trim white, but that's a big step and it's not easy to turn back the clock on that decision. I've taken some pics and posted them below. The wall colour is going to be changed to a neutral taupe/brown colour soon. One pic is of the Maple Truffle against the Oak trim and the other of the Maple Truffle against the Oak island cabinet.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7320/mapleoaktrimhy2.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4092/mapleoakislandio6.jpg

[Shinshi]

In regards to your wood species challenge, I'd say we have:

1. Hickory
2. Oak
3. Ash
4. Maple

That is without looking them up on the net. Maple is easy, the others, not so easy at all.

[patrob]

We have considered painting the trim white, but that's a big step and it's not easy to turn back the clock on that decision. I've taken some pics and posted them below. The wall colour is going to be changed to a neutral taupe/brown colour soon. One pic is of the Maple Truffle against the Oak trim and the other of the Maple Truffle against the Oak island cabinet.


Thanks for the pics & it's exactly what I was thinking that the trims would be a honey yellow colour. IMHO it does clash with the brown colour of the wood & I strongly suggest you re-paint your trim. If you would have chosen a honey coloured oak hardwood then it would look fine with the trim.

Painting is not really that hard, it will take time but you can do it in small steps. But I feel it will look so much better & will give you that make-over crisp look;) Hardwood floors are not cheap, so if you are spending that kind of money, you should do it right & have the trim/baseboards re-painted. I can guarantee you once they are done, you will realize how much better everything will look, it will be like a new house :)

Regarding the wood grain/species challenge, lets see if anybody else can tell the difference :D

[patrob]

The wall colour is going to be changed to a neutral taupe/brown colour soon. One pic is of the Maple Truffle against the Oak trim...

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7320/mapleoaktrimhy2.jpg


I forgot to mention that looks like somebody installed regular door/window trim instead of real baseboards. Once you add your hardwood & quarter round, you will be left with around 1" of actual trim which will not look very good. You need to leave 1/4" minimum expansion gap & the quarter round is there to cover that gap. The bad new is that looks like now you will need to change your trim for real baseboards :idea:

[Shinshi]

I see what you mean about the faux baseboards. Interesting. I wonder if that trim is cheaper than real baseboards? This house was built 5 years ago, prior to our purchasing it. Must have been installed by the builder. I found a link online to what the baseboards should look like and the quarter round.

http://www.ambientbp.com/baseboard_shoe_molding_bamboo_floor_installation.j pg

Perhaps I can use that trim for windows and doors in the basement and get real baseboards for the rest of the house. Basement is still in development stage.

[Shinshi]

This house has what looks like oak cabinets, oak trim and oak floors? Hard to tell without a closeup of the floor. This is more inline with what you are suggesting I believe...

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4166/3302492001sm8.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4968/3302492004oz5.jpg

[patrob]

I see what you mean about the faux baseboards. Interesting. I wonder if that trim is cheaper than real baseboards? This house was built 5 years ago, prior to our purchasing it. Must have been installed by the builder. I found a link online to what the baseboards should look like and the quarter round.

Perhaps I can use that trim for windows and doors in the basement and get real baseboards for the rest of the house. Basement is still in development stage.

:) Yes, if you plan to remove it, make sure you do it carefully & you might be able to reuse most of the pieces. Looks like the builder was trying to save some money by doing this...

This house has what looks like oak cabinets, oak trim and oak floors? Hard to tell without a closeup of the floor. This is more inline with what you are suggesting I believe...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4968/3302492004oz5.jpg

Yes, that's what I meant, that all the wood colours blend nicely together & nothing is clashing.

So looks like you got yourself a bigger project now :D But I am sure it will look great once you are done. Just don't forget to post pics ;)

[patrob]

Here is an example of stairs re-done from carpet to hardwood using pre-finished stair threads & risers in any colour of your choice (so no need to stain & varnish).
For round stairs, template is needed. It takes 3 to 4 days & your stairs are fully transformed. But it's not cheap ;)

Before:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1706/img6019yi8.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2594/img6022bg5.jpg

After:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5453/img6058yy6.jpghttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5950/img6062bl2.jpg

[sleepyguy]

Hey Patrob,

We were looking at some hardwood this weekend, and typically just looking at Vintage. The 'salesman' who loves to listen to himself talk mentioned that Mirage and Lauzon ar the best in the market right now. Vintage is a premium price but not worth their cost. Superior has gone done in quality over the years. Not sure if he was just trying to 'sell' me Mirage or Lauzon, but he was selling all the brands except Superior. Any truth to that? -sg

[leafs]

I just spoke to someone at Darmaga about getting Mirage Maple sierra flooring installed and he quoted me between 10 and 11 per SQ ft. Wow that is in the builder price range.

[sleepyguy]

Yeah, I got quoted at Custom Flooring here in Burlington at around the same rate, $7.99 / ft + $2.49 / ft for install. That was for high quality Mirage flooring just like yours.

I just spoke to someone at Darmaga about getting Mirage Maple sierra flooring installed and he quoted me between 10 and 11 per SQ ft. Wow that is in the builder price range.

[leafs]

Weston hardwood offered me $6.50 sq ft for the flooring and 2.50 sq ft installed. That is the best I have seen for this product.

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

We were looking at some hardwood this weekend, and typically just looking at Vintage. The 'salesman' who loves to listen to himself talk mentioned that Mirage and Lauzon ar the best in the market right now. Vintage is a premium price but not worth their cost. Superior has gone done in quality over the years. Not sure if he was just trying to 'sell' me Mirage or Lauzon, but he was selling all the brands except Superior. Any truth to that? -sg

Were they even selling Vintage wood? Did he even offer you a price for it? Vintage is not a premium price, it's actually slightly cheaper then Mirage & quality wise it's up there with Mirage. The salesman is obviously making more money on selling you the other stuff... I would not be recommending Vintage if it was not considered one of the best & speaking here from years of experience working with both products.

[gei]

I'm looking to get laminate flooring installed in my condo. There's only about a 500sqft area I'm looking to get done.

Thing is the room is oddly shaped, and there are a couple of pillars to go around, so I imagine it would be a little more difficult install than usual.

Anyone have any referals to someone who could do a good job (and for a good rate too obviously). I'm starting to get some quotes myself, but looking to get some recommendations too. I'm downtown.

[patrob]

I'm looking to get laminate flooring installed in my condo. There's only about a 500sqft area I'm looking to get done.

Thing is the room is oddly shaped, and there are a couple of pillars to go around, so I imagine it would be a little more difficult install than usual.

Anyone have any referals to someone who could do a good job (and for a good rate too obviously). I'm starting to get some quotes myself, but looking to get some recommendations too. I'm downtown.

First, did you find out from your condo management about your minimum sound insulation requirement:?:

Condos are usually more expensive to do, because of all the extra work that's involved, limited hours when you can work, etc... It also depends what you want to spend on the laminate, there's the cheap stuff & then there's the good stuff but costs more $$.

[spincycle]

I'm doing a condo installation as well. I looked at the laminates, and even the best ones, still don't look like real wood. So it's engineered it is for me. It's a big price jump though.

Darmaga quoted me $2817 all in. This is for the Mirage Maple Vienna, Engineered. 19 Cartons, 4 rolls of ultimat underlay. Not sure if this is a good price - it's just my first quote. This is for 400sq ft of space.




spin

[patrob]

I'm doing a condo installation as well. I looked at the laminates, and even the best ones, still don't look like real wood. So it's engineered it is for me. It's a big price jump though.

Darmaga quoted me $2817 all in. This is for the Mirage Maple Vienna, Engineered. 19 Cartons, 4 rolls of ultimat underlay. Not sure if this is a good price - it's just my first quote. This is for 400sq ft of space.

spin

I agree, nothing looks as good at the real thing & after seeing how much good quality laminate costs, you realized might as well spend a bit more & get the real thing :D I think you made the right choice!

So this price is just for the product itself, since you were planning to install it yourself from what I remember. Looks like a good price for Mirage engineered. I assume you checked with your condo management for the underlay requirements...

[3weddings]

Here is an example of stairs re-done from carpet to hardwood using pre-finished stair threads & risers in any colour of your choice (so no need to stain & varnish).
For round stairs, template is needed. It takes 3 to 4 days & your stairs are fully transformed. But it's not cheap ;)


How bad is not cheap? We're still toying with it, but I'd rather the $$ go into my new house, kwim?

[patrob]

Weston hardwood offered me $6.50 sq ft for the flooring and 2.50 sq ft installed. That is the best I have seen for this product.

Is that price for 1st grade Mirage 3 1/4"? $10-$11 for Darmaga & $9 plus taxes from Weston, at the end is the same... But there will be a big difference in quality of installation & customer service with Darmaga.

Also want to point out, recently I noticed Mirage has more short boards and more & more small indentation on boards still in the boxes, especially visible on maple. It's caused by lack of protective foam between layers which Mirage does not use like Vintage does.

[patrob]

How bad is not cheap? We're still toying with it, but I'd rather the $$ go into my new house, kwim?

Between $250-$300 per step for curved stairs & $200-$250 for straight stairs. So it's not cheap if you have 2 flights of stairs:D If you want a cheaper solution, why not just install a nice berber, especially in the house you want to sell. Since I doubt you will get your money back for the stairs...:)

[sleepyguy]

Yeah he was carrying Vintage, Mirage and Lauzon. No Superior in his showroom. Said he was the largest distrubutor in the region, not sure if that is a good or bad thing. I'm pretty set on Vintage though.

Do you recommend shorter or wider planks. We're undecided, but I prefer the 2-1/4 while my better half prefers the wider 4-3/4 planks. Maybe we'll go middle ground with 3-1/4 :)

My reasoning for 2-1/4 is more nails = more solid? Also I like the 'busy' lines look. Hmmm. We've been getting quotes here and there, what do you think of Speers Flooring in Oakville? Talking to them they seemed very knowledgble and very nice, probably they best store i've walked in yet. -sg

Were they even selling Vintage wood? Did he even offer you a price for it? Vintage is not a premium price, it's actually slightly cheaper then Mirage & quality wise it's up there with Mirage. The salesman is obviously making more money on selling you the other stuff... I would not be recommending Vintage if it was not considered one of the best & speaking here from years of experience working with both products.

[patrob]

I'm pretty set on Vintage though.

Do you recommend shorter or wider planks. We're a big undecided as I prefers the 2-1/4 while my better half prefers the wider 4-3/4 planks. Maybe we'll go middle ground with 3-1/4 :)

My reasoning for 2-1/4 is more nails = more solid? Also I like the 'busy' lines look. Hmmm. We've been getting quotes here and there, what do you think of Speers Flooring in Oakville? Talking to them they seemed very knowledgble and very nice, probably they best store i've walked in yet. -sg

It really depends on what look you like. Some people don't mind 2 1/4" & some hate it, say it's too narrow & go for wider 3 1/4" or 4". It's up to you really but personally I recommend wider planks :)

Not very familiar with that company, so I can't comment.

[spincycle]

I agree, nothing looks as good at the real thing & after seeing how much good quality laminate costs, you realized might as well spend a bit more & get the real thing :D I think you made the right choice!

So this price is just for the product itself, since you were planning to install it yourself from what I remember. Looks like a good price for Mirage engineered. I assume you checked with your condo management for the underlay requirements...

Yes, the underlay requirements were for a IIC of 55! So low! I'm going to be installing sound proofing of IIC 60 anyways, so I'm atleast more comfortable with making noise in my own condo!

[r2traps]

I have parquet in my basement which is a medium/dark brown. Rather than installing a different type of flooring, I was thinking of getting it refinished. I don't mind the look, and it's not in bad shape overall, but it could use a refreshing. Anyone have an idea on the cost of refinishing parquet floors?

[patrob]

I have parquet in my basement which is a medium/dark brown. Rather than installing a different type of flooring, I was thinking of getting it refinished. I don't mind the look, and it's not in bad shape overall, but it could use a refreshing. Anyone have an idea on the cost of refinishing parquet floors?

To re-finish the parquet, you are looking at anywhere from $1.75 natural - $2.50 sq. ft. for stain.

[sleepyguy]

I'm guessing this is the rate for hardwood flooring as well right? Hmmm. Very interesting.

To re-finish the parquet, you are looking at anywhere from $1.75 natural - $2.50 sq. ft. for stain.

[spincycle]

Hey Patrob,

I got a quote from Darmaga on an engineered floor by a company called Kahrs (two dots on the a). These guys any good? Tom from Darmaga loves them. It's only $4.50 a sq ft for a beautiful engineered wood. It's a Linna Maple Espresso.



spin

[patrob]

I'm guessing this is the rate for hardwood flooring as well right? Hmmm. Very interesting.

Yes, the rate is for hardwood flooring as well.

If you like the existing floors & they are in a condition that can be re-finished, try that first. BTW, how old is the house & what kind of floors are there now (width, thickness, species)?

You can call the re-finisher & go with him to check out the floors & he will tell you right away if they can be re-finished or not. There is no charge for that.

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

I got a quote from Darmaga on an engineered floor by a company called Kahrs (two dots on the a). These guys any good? Tom from Darmaga loves them. It's only $4.50 a sq ft for a beautiful engineered wood. It's a Linna Maple Espresso.

spin

Price sounds good & I heard the product is fine. So looks like you are getting closer & closer to getting your engineered hardwood floors ;)

[spincycle]

Thanks for the recommendation Patrob! Darmaga isn't the absolute cheapest (there are some places which sell for a few cents less) but the service and product knowledge far outweighs the small price difference!

So now it's time to make the hard decision on laminate or engineered. They are similar in price, maybe about $1 between the two, but the condo I'm putting this into, I plan on renting in a few years. Engineered looks far better. But laminate will give me the durability. Decisions, decisions!



spin

[kaapo]

A friend suggested engineered flooring with a pre-attached underlay. Can anyone recommend this product (or not) and suggest where I might find out more about it?

[patrob]

Thanks for the recommendation Patrob! Darmaga isn't the absolute cheapest (there are some places which sell for a few cents less) but the service and product knowledge far outweighs the small price difference!

So now it's time to make the hard decision on laminate or engineered. They are similar in price, maybe about $1 between the two, but the condo I'm putting this into, I plan on renting in a few years. Engineered looks far better. But laminate will give me the durability. Decisions, decisions!


Yes, Darmaga has been around for a long time & has a very good reputation for good customer service. That's why they are always a bit more expensive than others but for some it's well worth it. I think you should go for the engineered if not that much more $$. Wood is wood & looks better too ;)

A friend suggested engineered flooring with a pre-attached underlay. Can anyone recommend this product (or not) and suggest where I might find out more about it?

BTW, welcome to RFD, looks like this is your 1st post ;)

Not very familiar with that product, have heard of it but can't really comment. But it will not be any better than using regular underlay, just might save you a bit on labour. Where are you planning to install it:?:

[exrated]

Hey Patrob,

We recently had our hardwood floors done. We selected a dark brown hardwood colour and noticed that there are some glue residue marks in some areas. We used Lepage PL premium glue and have used goof off to try and remove it, but it still leaves a surface mark that you can see in the sunlight. Do you know if this can be removed or what can remove it? Thanks for your help.

[r2traps]

To re-finish the parquet, you are looking at anywhere from $1.75 natural - $2.50 sq. ft. for stain.

Just spoke with Frontier Flooring and they said $3.65/sq ft for stain. They seem to be very knowledgeable and well rated so I feel safe going with them, unless you can suggest other companies for me in the GTA?

[spincycle]

A friend suggested engineered flooring with a pre-attached underlay. Can anyone recommend this product (or not) and suggest where I might find out more about it?

Torley's Summit is a great product. It has a thick cork underlay built in with a pretty high IIC rating. Oh and go to Darmaga for questions!

[values99club]

Hi patrob,

We have builder upgraded, installed, Maple natural 3 1/4" x 3/4" hardwood planks, some of which were replaced due to a plumbers leak prior to closing. I'm not sure if the replaced sections were done right, since there is some gapping between some planks in some areas, especially around where they replaced the water damaged planks, and gapping even around the floor vent registers too. Noticed a couple of pieces that are actually not straight and the gap is slightly wider on one end and slightly raised at one end corner.

Firstly, I did notice that upon removal of the water damaged pieces, they cut through the sheet of paper/plastic before the sub-floor, not sure if they replaced this before replacing the new flooring and after letting the area dry off, and if they allowed enough time for all the water to dry off.

Secondly, not sure if the crackling sounds are a result of this not being repaired correctly, not enough nails or they may had damaged the subfloor too, as they took out the water damaged pieces. Or is it due to normal shrinkage during the heating season. We do have a humidifier going between 30 to 50% max depending on how cold it is outside. (colder outside temp. then 30%, warmer outside then 50%)

What is the best to do under these circumstances. The builder mentioned that they will only look at this at the 1 year deficiency list and will fix only if the RH levels in the house is adequate. Any thoughts as to get ahead of this builder inspection? I will definately list it for the year end Tarion list no matter what, but need your help and advice.

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

We recently had our hardwood floors done. We selected a dark brown hardwood colour and noticed that there are some glue residue marks in some areas. We used Lepage PL premium glue and have used goof off to try and remove it, but it still leaves a surface mark that you can see in the sunlight. Do you know if this can be removed or what can remove it? Thanks for your help.

There is a product called DuraPro by Dural, it's a polyurethane glue remover & it's the best for stuff like that. You can buy it at professional flooring stores but it's not cheap.

[patrob]

Just spoke with Frontier Flooring and they said $3.65/sq ft for stain. They seem to be very knowledgeable and well rated so I feel safe going with them, unless you can suggest other companies for me in the GTA?

Prices at stores are always more expensive vs. if you go the the re-finisher directly. That's how they make their money ;) I have a contact for someone who does this, I just have to find the number & I will PM you the info.

Also, I assume you are referring to the Homestars rating, Frontier is very new in the market & for some reason I personally don't believe that they have a perfect rating of 9.9 (32 ratings):rolleyes: They deal only with Greenpark & Starlane & Treasure Hill & they rarely do retail jobs.

[patrob]

Hi patrob,

We have builder upgraded, installed, Maple natural 3 1/4" x 3/4" hardwood planks, some of which were replaced due to a plumbers leak prior to closing. I'm not sure if the replaced sections were done right, since there is some gapping between some planks in some areas, especially around where they replaced the water damaged planks, and gapping even around the floor vent registers too. Noticed a couple of pieces that are actually not straight and the gap is slightly wider on one end and slightly raised at one end corner.

Firstly, I did notice that upon removal of the water damaged pieces, they cut through the sheet of paper/plastic before the sub-floor, not sure if they replaced this before replacing the new flooring and after letting the area dry off, and if they allowed enough time for all the water to dry off.

Secondly, not sure if the crackling sounds are a result of this not being repaired correctly, not enough nails or they may had damaged the subfloor too, as they took out the water damaged pieces. Or is it due to normal shrinkage during the heating season. We do have a humidifier going between 30 to 50% max depending on how cold it is outside. (colder outside temp. then 30%, warmer outside then 50%)

What is the best to do under these circumstances. The builder mentioned that they will only look at this at the 1 year deficiency list and will fix only if the RH levels in the house is adequate. Any thoughts as to get ahead of this builder inspection? I will definately list it for the year end Tarion list no matter what, but need your help and advice.

In the heating season, wood does shrink even with a humidifier especially around heating vents. The lifted corners of the planks are probably the boards that were supposed to have been replaced & were left untouched. When the water leak happened, the wood expands & pushes all the boards apart. When you install new boards, only for example, in the middle of the room, you will have very visible gap at the end of the replaced section. Because of the width difference of the new boards to the expanded boards. Most likely the builder will not touch anything until the summer or year end. Make sure it is on the list. Depends on the builder, you can even try to have that whole room replaced if you push them hard enough.

When they replace the boards, they always cut right to the bare sub-floor, paper has to be removed & single boards are always replaced on glue only. Paper has nothing to do with moisture or anti-squeak. It's only to make the installers life easier:D to slide the boards together. As for creaking sounds, usually you notice that in the mornings or in the rooms that you use the least. The wood is slightly dry & has more movement but after a few steps you notice that once you go back to that room, it's not there anymore, right.
The boards also might have been nailed too far from the front & end.

But make sure your humidity is above 40% when the builder comes for inspection :!: They really look at that & want to find any excuse not to do the repair. BTW, who's the builder?

Hope this helps somewhat :)

[kaapo]

BTW, welcome to RFD, looks like this is your 1st post

Not very familiar with that product, have heard of it but can't really comment. But it will not be any better than using regular underlay, just might save you a bit on labour. Where are you planning to install it

Thanks for the welcome. This is a great resource and I've been reviewing it for a little while now.

I've done a little bit of research but have not come up with much for info on the pre-attached other than Pergo and Shaw have it. The obvious benefit seems to be sound. Some floating installations have that hollow sound when you step on it. Apparently, the pre-attached eliminates this. I don't have a price comparison information unfortunately, so can't determine cost vs. benefit.

Torley's Summit is a great product. It has a thick cork underlay built in with a pretty high IIC rating. Oh and go to Darmaga for questions!

I saw Summit in one showroom but was more focussed on their other products and I didn't notice the cork underlay. It looks like I will check out Darmaga because their prices, as far as I can tell, are pretty competitive. For example, the Kahrs Linnea line was about 50 cents/ft2 more expensive at Carpet Mill on Carlaw. If anyone is downtown, and looking at Quick-step and Torlys, the people at Downtown Flooring are very helpful; however, their pricing appears to be pretty standard (eg. Quickstep Elegance about $3.49 and Torlys Uptown $4.49 (don't know if this is 1 standard length or the three)).

[values99club]

In the heating season, wood does shrink even with a humidifier especially around heating vents. The lifted corners of the planks are probably the boards that were supposed to have been replaced & were left untouched. When the water leak happened, the wood expands & pushes all the boards apart. When you install new boards, only for example, in the middle of the room, you will have very visible gap at the end of the replaced section. Because of the width difference of the new boards to the expanded boards. Most likely the builder will not touch anything until the summer or year end. Make sure it is on the list. Depends on the builder, you can even try to have that whole room replaced if you push them hard enough.

When they replace the boards, they always cut right to the bare sub-floor, paper has to be removed & single boards are always replaced on glue only. Paper has nothing to do with moisture or anti-squeak. It's only to make the installers life easier:D to slide the boards together. As for creaking sounds, usually you notice that in the mornings or in the rooms that you use the least. The wood is slightly dry & has more movement but after a few steps you notice that once you go back to that room, it's not there anymore, right.
The boards also might have been nailed too far from the front & end.

But make sure your humidity is above 40% when the builder comes for inspection :!: They really look at that & want to find any excuse not to do the repair. BTW, who's the builder?

Hope this helps somewhat :)

Will the shrinkage around the heating vents return to normal/or close to or should I also included these areas in the 1 year list to Tarion?

Actually not creaking but more of a crackling noise, mostly from the area of the replaced water damaged planks in the Family room and Main hallway, and is there most of the time, maybe these replaced areas were not glued?

I'm not sure of what you meant by "The boards also might have been nailed too far from the front & end.", will this cause the gapping between the planks or crackling noise? I'll PM the builder.

Thanks!

[patrob]

Will the shrinkage around the heating vents return to normal/or close to or should I also included these areas in the 1 year list to Tarion?

Actually not creaking but more of a crackling noise, mostly from the area of the replaced water damaged planks in the Family room and Main hallway, and is there most of the time, maybe these replaced areas were not glued?

I'm not sure of what you meant by "The boards also might have been nailed too far from the front & end.", will this cause the gapping between the planks or crackling noise? I'll PM the builder.

Thanks!

The shrinkage/gaps should go back close to normal once it gets warmer. But if you feel that they did not replace some of the water damaged boards, I would add that on your 1 year list or even push them to replace that whole room if you are not satisfied. Why should you accept their poor repair, I wouldn't since you paid a lot of money for it.

Not sure how large the area was that they replaced, but if it was more than just a few boards, those would have been nailed. Only single boards are glued down.

What I mean by that, is a good installer will nail 3"-4" from the front of the board & same for the end, with nails 6"-8" apart in between. By the 'book' it's recommended around 10"-12" apart but IMO that's not adequate. You can go down to your basement & take a look at how far apart the boards were nailed. This might affect board movement if not nailed properly.

[patrob]

Just noticed that someone for whatever reason has a 'beef' with this thread & rates it TERRIBLE again :mad: Obviously everyone that asks me questions is grateful for the advice that I have given them & happy that I started this thread in the first place. I like to answer everybody's questions & help them out in any way I can.

So if someone has a problem with this thread, please let me know, because I am a bit sick & tired of certain people putting this thread down for no apparent reason :!:

If anyone would like to add any comments, please feel free to do so.

Thank you,

[jl001]

:arrowu: I enjoy reading your comment and advice.
Some time in the near future, I will get hardwood for my house, and will seek for more advice...
Keep up the great work, Patrob.

[macdonlg]

Before you get upset about what 1 person is saying, although negative, just think about the many more people so far, and more to come who will benefit from and appreciate your insights, advice and interest, in their project. That is what make forums such as these valuable - that someone is willing to spend their own time, without reward or even recognition, to help others. Although you have not helped me(yet) with this thread, I say thanks for the effort as I know it will come in handy soon.

[patrob]

:arrowu: I enjoy reading your comment and advice.
Some time in the near future, I will get hardwood for my house, and will seek for more advice...
Keep up the great work, Patrob.

Before you get upset about what 1 person is saying, although negative, just think about the many more people so far, and more to come who will benefit from and appreciate your insights, advice and interest, in their project. That is what make forums such as these valuable - that someone is willing to spend their own time, without reward or even recognition, to help others. Although you have not helped me(yet) with this thread, I say thanks for the effort as I know it will come in handy soon.

Thanks for the support ;) If I can be of any help now or in the future, just ask.

[values99club]

:arrowu: I enjoy reading your comment and advice.
Some time in the near future, I will get hardwood for my house, and will seek for more advice...
Keep up the great work, Patrob.

+1

Before you get upset about what 1 person is saying, although negative, just think about the many more people so far, and more to come who will benefit from and appreciate your insights, advice and interest, in their project. That is what make forums such as these valuable - that someone is willing to spend their own time, without reward or even recognition, to help others. Although you have not helped me(yet) with this thread, I say thanks for the effort as I know it will come in handy soon.

+1

Thanks again for starting this informative thread on Hardwood flooring, for sharing your knowledge with us, helping perfect strangers.....fellow RFD'ers with alot of good advice, helpful ideals and comments on their projects.

An Excellent Thread patrob:!:

[stealth]

Moving right along....the next part in my flooring project is the stairs.

Just wondering what the conventional way to handle these would be? Would you just shave an inch (or whatever) off the nose of the tread with a circular saw, and lay down an oak tread on top and taller riser to fill in the space from the existing 2x8 pine tread? If so, wouldnt the side of the stairs look ugly?
Or should I remove the existing tread and put down a new hardwood tread (and if so, what thickness?)?
Heres some pics of what I'm working with.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs003.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs001.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs002.jpg
Thanks!

[Millenium]

First off, I would like to thank Patrob for not only starting this wonderfully informative thread, but also for taking the time to keep it alive with such quick & detailed replies. :)

And what a terrific thread it is! A few hours ago, I started out as a flooring newbie but after reading all 20 pages of useful posts in this thread, I feel a tad more confident in making a decision for flooring in my condo unit. It really helps that a few of the posters are in the same situation of looking to upgrade in the much smaller space of a condo without breaking the bank.

My questions & concerns:
1) Is the underlayment cost automatically included in the s.f. price of the hardwood (pre-engineered in my case) OR in the s.f. price for installation OR is it usually itemized as a separate charge altogether? This Torlys Acoustik (http://www.newhomesandcondos.com/modules/magazine/archived.asp?AID=2235&MID=4&IDATE=1/8/2007&CMID=4&CIDATE=12/13/2004) underlay is marketed for Condo dwellers and surpasses the IIC 55 minimum requirement - can anyone vouch for it?

2) Most posters seem to be raving about Mirage and Vintage but I like the appearance and design of the free-floating/uniclic Torlys. Just how good is their product? I am leaning towards a dark modern pre-eng such as their Summit Beech Wenge (http://www.torlys.com/Flooring/BrowseProducts/tabid/278/CategoryID/7/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/626/language/en-US/default.aspx) or Summit Beech Java (http://www.torlys.com/Flooring/BrowseProducts/tabid/278/CategoryID/7/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/624/language/en-US/default.aspx). However I have some concern that since my kitchen cabinets are a dark espresso colour and most of my furniture is black it will be almost be too dark and make the place look smaller especially at night. What do you think?

3) Who can give me the absolute best price for materials & installation of the Torlys choices I have outlined? Preferably someone who has experience with condo settings. Feel free to PM with prices and names.

4) What does it mean when they say 1- vs. 2- vs. 3- vs. 4-sides?

5) If I want to leave all my floors concrete and have the hardwood installed after occupancy how likely is it that the builder will give me a partial credit for the standard carpet I am refusing to have installed?

Thanks for reading.

[sleepyguy]

I think patrob mentioned earlier that the cost is around the same. doing HW would 'blend' better with your flooring though. Personally I'd go with a solid plan "more solid" and then stain to match as closely as possible. Then get a facia riser and just stain it the same or paint it white like most people are doing nowadays.

Moving right along....the next part in my flooring project is the stairs.

Just wondering what the conventional way to handle these would be? Would you just shave an inch (or whatever) off the nose of the tread with a circular saw, and lay down an oak tread on top and taller riser to fill in the space from the existing 2x8 pine tread? If so, wouldnt the side of the stairs look ugly?
Or should I remove the existing tread and put down a new hardwood tread (and if so, what thickness?)?
Heres some pics of what I'm working with.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs003.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs001.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs002.jpg
Thanks!

[spincycle]

Hey Patrob,

I'm installing the engineered flooring this weekend, but I have a small problem. I found an area where I have a bump in the concrete floor. It's not enough to see, but I don't think a plank is going to sit flat on it. What are my options in leveling the condo floor? I don't think pouring self-leveling concrete is an option. I've read that using shingles before my vapour barrier is possible. Could I get your expert opinion? :) Thanks!

[patrob]

Just wondering what the conventional way to handle these would be? Would you just shave an inch (or whatever) off the nose of the tread with a circular saw, and lay down an oak tread on top and taller riser to fill in the space from the existing 2x8 pine tread? If so, wouldnt the side of the stairs look ugly?
Or should I remove the existing tread and put down a new hardwood tread (and if so, what thickness?)?
Heres some pics of what I'm working with.

Thanks!

1. Remove railing
2. Cut the existing threads front & side flush to the riser & stringer.
3. Start from bottom, install riser flush with top of the thread.
4. Install new thread on 1st step.
5. Go step by step from bottom up.
6. You can veneer the sides, stringers but it's a lot more work & skill. Usually DIY'ers paint them white.
7. On the corners where riser ends, the easiest way is to install a corner moulding to have a finished look.
8. Before you install the threads try to mark all the holes for your railings, so it's easier to re-install.

Cost of nosing & wood for your steps is equivalent to buying a solid thread, which is easier to work with & your stairs are more solid. Use PL adhesive for your risers & threads.

I also noticed you have a vinyl handrail, so use a hairdryer on hot to warm it up before you take it off. Even though you warm it up, it can still break, so be careful if you want to re-use it.

Good luck ;)

[patrob]

My questions & concerns:
1) Is the underlayment cost automatically included in the s.f. price of the hardwood (pre-engineered in my case) OR in the s.f. price for installation OR is it usually itemized as a separate charge altogether? This Torlys Acoustik (http://www.newhomesandcondos.com/modules/magazine/archived.asp?AID=2235&MID=4&IDATE=1/8/2007&CMID=4&CIDATE=12/13/2004) underlay is marketed for Condo dwellers and surpasses the IIC 55 minimum requirement - can anyone vouch for it?

2) Most posters seem to be raving about Mirage and Vintage but I like the appearance and design of the free-floating/uniclic Torlys. Just how good is their product? I am leaning towards a dark modern pre-eng such as their Summit Beech Wenge (http://www.torlys.com/Flooring/BrowseProducts/tabid/278/CategoryID/7/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/626/language/en-US/default.aspx) or Summit Beech Java (http://www.torlys.com/Flooring/BrowseProducts/tabid/278/CategoryID/7/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/624/language/en-US/default.aspx). However I have some concern that since my kitchen cabinets are a dark espresso colour and most of my furniture is black it will be almost be too dark and make the place look smaller especially at night. What do you think?

3) Who can give me the absolute best price for materials & installation of the Torlys choices I have outlined? Preferably someone who has experience with condo settings. Feel free to PM with prices and names.

4) What does it mean when they say 1- vs. 2- vs. 3- vs. 4-sides?

5) If I want to leave all my floors concrete and have the hardwood installed after occupancy how likely is it that the builder will give me a partial credit for the standard carpet I am refusing to have installed?

Thanks for reading.

1) As for condos, I always recommend to check with your condo management for their specific requirements. Every condo has diff. rules, even though you think it should be enough, for them it might not be.

A proper quote should specify everything to your requirements & list everything that will be included, installed & any possible removals.

2) Torlys makes a wonderful product & they are really designed for DIY. It's easy to install & it's considered one of the highest in quality.
Regarding the colour choice, you have to make the final decision. You will be living in that condo. Dark floors go well with dark cabinets, so don't be afraid plus it's very trendy.

3) Don't go with the first company that gives you the quote, get few & shop around.

4) I prefer the 4 side beveled edge which looks more realistic but of course it's more $$. It means how it's finished on the edges. From what I know they only make a square edge laminate or beveled edge laminate & hardwood.

5) Good luck. It's up to the builder, some are more flexible with this stuff & others will just not do it. Just ask & see what they tell you. In the worst case, you can remove the carpet yourself.

:)

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

I'm installing the engineered flooring this weekend, but I have a small problem. I found an area where I have a bump in the concrete floor. It's not enough to see, but I don't think a plank is going to sit flat on it. What are my options in leveling the condo floor? I don't think pouring self-leveling concrete is an option. I've read that using shingles before my vapour barrier is possible. Could I get your expert opinion? :) Thanks!

How bad is the bump :?: What area is it in :?: Check with a long straight edge for other high or low spots. Which product are you installing :?: Self leveling or shims are usually for low spots. Bumps should be grind off or you can use a leveling compound to "feather"(sp?) it out further. Sometimes if it's not too bad, you can just leave it.

[spincycle]

How bad is the bump :?: What area is it in :?: Check with a long straight edge for other high or low spots. Which product are you installing :?: Self leveling or shims are usually for low spots. Bumps should be grind off or you can use a leveling compound to "feather"(sp?) it out further. Sometimes if it's not too bad, you can just leave it.

You've been busy with your replies! The bump is not huge, but it's enough that when I place a 5 foot level, it doesn't sit flat. It's raised about 2-3mm. It's around 1 foot squared. The bump is near the window. I'm installing Torley's Everest Uniclick.

I like both the grind option and the feathering option. A few questions on that.

To grind down concrete, what do I use? I have an angle grinder, but I've only used it to cut bolts.

If I were to feather the area out, what sort of compound should I be using?


Thanks for you help Patrob! I mentioned your name to the folks at Darmaga. You should start collecting referral fees!

[stealth]

1. Remove railing
2. Cut the existing threads front & side flush to the riser & stringer.
3. Start from bottom, install riser flush with top of the thread.
4. Install new thread on 1st step.
5. Go step by step from bottom up.
6. You can veneer the sides, stringers but it's a lot more work & skill. Usually DIY'ers paint them white.
7. On the corners where riser ends, the easiest way is to install a corner moulding to have a finished look.
8. Before you install the threads try to mark all the holes for your railings, so it's easier to re-install.

Cost of nosing & wood for your steps is equivalent to buying a solid thread, which is easier to work with & your stairs are more solid. Use PL adhesive for your risers & threads.

I also noticed you have a vinyl handrail, so use a hairdryer on hot to warm it up before you take it off. Even though you warm it up, it can still break, so be careful if you want to re-use it.

Good luck ;)

Thanks Patrob. Thats a perfect explanation. And no, I wont be re-using those railings (yuck!). lol.

[patrob]

You've been busy with your replies! The bump is not huge, but it's enough that when I place a 5 foot level, it doesn't sit flat. It's raised about 2-3mm. It's around 1 foot squared. The bump is near the window. I'm installing Torley's Everest Uniclick.

I like both the grind option and the feathering option. A few questions on that.

To grind down concrete, what do I use? I have an angle grinder, but I've only used it to cut bolts.

If I were to feather the area out, what sort of compound should I be using?

Thanks for you help Patrob! I mentioned your name to the folks at Darmaga. You should start collecting referral fees!

Yes, I think I should start collecting :D ;)

1/4 inch over 8 feet is acceptable, so your 2-3 mm over 5 ft. is not that bad & I personally wouldn't touch it unless it really bothers you. Your best bet is to feather it out with LePage or Mapei floor leveler. But make sure you feather it out as smooth as possible & as far as possible. To grind it you can use an electric/pneumatic chisel & then finish off with stone grinder.

[patrob]

+1 +1

Thanks again for starting this informative thread on Hardwood flooring, for sharing your knowledge with us, helping perfect strangers.....fellow RFD'ers with alot of good advice, helpful ideals and comments on their projects.

An Excellent Thread patrob:!:

Thanks, glad you find it informative :)

Thanks Patrob. Thats a perfect explanation. And no, I wont be re-using those railings (yuck!). lol.

No problem. Just don't forget to post your new stair pics here :D

[patrob]

Easter Bump ;) Hope everyone is having a good Holiday :)

http://www.news2wkrn.com/john/archives/Bunny%20Cartoon.bmp

[sweetnlow]

Hi Patrob,

Our builder is putting down Satin Finish harwood at around $10/sf for what they call "eco-plank". What is your experience with Satin Finish? Are they mid-line quality?

We are thinking of just doing it after the fact as Satin Finish says they can colour match the hardwood to the oak stairs...Who would you recommend as an installer for the Ajax area?

Thanks.

[Techhead]

I though I would start an official hardwood flooring thread, since there are many people always asking for hardwood flooring advice/help.

Since I have knowledge on the topic, just ask away if you have any specific questions ;)

I am in the market for a stapler, would really like to get the Bostitch MIIIFS, but as you are aware, it's pricey. >:(

What are your thoughts on the Samona or other off brands? Is it better to get a manual or pnumatic?

Samona
Paslode
SpotNails
OR Knockoff's of BOSTITCH MIIIFS

I have rented the Bostitch and Primatech and did not like the Primatech. Too big and awkward.

ThanX
Frank

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Our builder is putting down Satin Finish harwood at around $10/sf for what they call "eco-plank". What is your experience with Satin Finish? Are they mid-line quality?

We are thinking of just doing it after the fact as Satin Finish says they can colour match the hardwood to the oak stairs...Who would you recommend as an installer for the Ajax area?

Thanks.

Did you actually talk to someone from the manufacturer of SF dealer? Usually manufacturers don't do custom colours unless you are buying 2,000 sq.ft. or more. They probably will closely match with something from their line.

SF is not a bad product, not my #1 choice but it's ok. $10 sounds very reasonable from the builder.

[patrob]

I am in the market for a stapler, would really like to get the Bostitch MIIIFS, but as you are aware, it's pricey. >:(

What are your thoughts on the Samona or other off brands? Is it better to get a manual or pnumatic?

Samona
Paslode
SpotNails
OR Knockoff's of BOSTITCH MIIIFS

I have rented the Bostitch and Primatech and did not like the Primatech. Too big and awkward.

ThanX
Frank

BTW, welcome to RFD ;)

Are you buying the stapler for your own house installation or for work? If for work, Bostitch is #1, then Paslode, etc... But I don't recommend staplers to anybody. Much prefer a cleat nailer. It's more versatile for all species of wood. I personally prefer Powernail to Bostitch, more & more guys are switching back to nails. All the knock offs are cheap but they don't last you even close to what Bostitch or Powernail will.

Pneumatic Powernail will run you close to $700, manual will be around $350-$400. If you feel fit enough & it's only for 1 or 2 jobs, then manual will be fine. More likely you are using a compressor & a finishing nailer, so why not invest in pneumatic.

[Techhead]

BTW, welcome to RFD ;)

Are you buying the stapler for your own house installation or for work? If for work, Bostitch is #1, then Paslode, etc... But I don't recommend staplers to anybody. Much prefer a cleat nailer. It's more versatile for all species of wood. I personally prefer Powernail to Bostitch, more & more guys are switching back to nails. All the knock offs are cheap but they don't last you even close to what Bostitch or Powernail will.

Pneumatic Powernail will run you close to $700, manual will be around $350-$400. If you feel fit enough & it's only for 1 or 2 jobs, then manual will be fine. More likely you are using a compressor & a finishing nailer, so why not invest in pneumatic.


ThanX for the welcome.

This will be for my home project, I have about 750sq ft. to do. Will be all OAK. Most likely will endup doing floors for family and freinds in the future. I have in the past but rented the Bostitch Stapler. I have a 60Gal compressor in my garage, so a air stapler/nailer will be more easier for me to use. The job will run for a while so rental this time around is not economical.

Your thoughts on a reconditioned Bostitch? I have found two suppliers in the GTA that sell them at about half the cost over new.

ThanX again
Frank

[Lifesaver]

Thanks patrob for the excellent thread. I've learned so much. A couple of questions.

1) what do you think of ipe. I like the look but I have read it is not a very good floor if you have dryness issues in the home. Also refinishing might be more difficult because the dust might cause respertory issues.

2) what would you recommend that has a similar look to ipe but doesnt have the problems listed above.

3) what do you think of the following stores: Hardwood Flooring Store and Adamson Flooring

[patrob]

This will be for my home project, I have about 750sq ft. to do. Will be all OAK. Most likely will endup doing floors for family and freinds in the future. I have in the past but rented the Bostitch Stapler. I have a 60Gal compressor in my garage, so a air stapler/nailer will be more easier for me to use. The job will run for a while so rental this time around is not economical.

Your thoughts on a reconditioned Bostitch? I have found two suppliers in the GTA that sell them at about half the cost over new.

ThanX again
Frank

Reconditioned Bostitch should run you better than a knock off brand. Test it when buying, listen for air leaks, try to pick the one that looks the cleanest & has the least hammer marks.

Have fun :D

[patrob]

Thanks patrob for the excellent thread. I've learned so much. A couple of questions.

1) what do you think of ipe. I like the look but I have read it is not a very good floor if you have dryness issues in the home. Also refinishing might be more difficult because the dust might cause respertory issues.

2) what would you recommend that has a similar look to ipe but doesnt have the problems listed above.

3) what do you think of the following stores: Hardwood Flooring Store and Adamson Flooring

1) Ipe is a very nice wood but not for the installer :D because it's one of the hardest. In my experience none of the exotic species is meant for our climate. We get a lot of humid & then quick dryness & I notice that the harder the wood, the easier it cracks in dry season. When cutting any kind of wood, you should wear a mask to prevent dust inhalation especially with exotic species.

2) That question I can't really answer, there are a lot of exotic species & they all have similar issues as Ipe. If you buy the right product more likely you will never have to re-finish.

3) Not familiar with Adamson. Only dealt with HF Store a few times but nothing recently. Sometime ago I would rate them 2 out of 5 for quality & cust. service. But today I can't really say. HF Store carries their own brand Melrose & apparently it's not bad. I can give you my comments on Saturday, since a new job is coming up with their product ;)

[Mortgage_Broker]

This is a loooonnnnggggg thread


Anyways i need about 3200 sq feet of maple pre-finished........any suggestions??

What do you guys think about Bruce flooring??


Thanks

[patrob]

Anyways i need about 3200 sq feet of maple pre-finished........any suggestions??

What do you guys think about Bruce flooring??

Thanks

I can give you advice about installation but cannot really advise you on pricing. The price can range anywhere from $3.50 to $20 sq. ft.

But can you be more specific what kind of maple you are looking for, are you interested in a quality product or you just want the cheapest price. Cheap does not go with quality so you will get what you pay for.

[Mortgage_Broker]

well i was looking a the Bruce for about 5 bucks sqft..........whats your opinion on that......

is that cheap brand, midway, high end??

[Techhead]

patrob,

I am looking at two brands of flooring.

Superior or Coswick.

Natural White Oak.

Your thoughts on Quality of each? Surface coating durability?


PS:
ThanX on the advice of Nailer/Stapler. I am now tossed between a referb MIIIFS or a NEW Paslode @Depot. At just a few bucks more for the Paslode, but it's new.

[patrob]

well i was looking a the Bruce for about 5 bucks sqft..........whats your opinion on that......

is that cheap brand, midway, high end??

Bruce IMO is mid to lower grade quality & the finish is more glossy than some other brands.

For that price, you should also look into Satin Finish, better quality than Bruce. I would just call around for best price.

[patrob]

patrob,

I am looking at two brands of flooring.

Superior or Coswick.

Natural White Oak.

Your thoughts on Quality of each? Surface coating durability?

PS: ThanX on the advice of Nailer/Stapler. I am now tossed between a referb MIIIFS or a NEW Paslode @Depot. At just a few bucks more for the Paslode, but it's new.

I would go with Superior over Coswick. Superior is made right here in North America & Coswick comes from Belarus (Europe) on a boat :| Also Coswick is fairly new on the market.

Regarding the nailer, I would go with the new Paslode.

[hammer]

Is it acceptable to install hardwood parallel to joists? We have a narrow kitchen and if we install the hardwood perpendicular to the joist it would look awkward (eyes would lead to the walls)...we would like to install it parallel so that the narrow long kitchen would be parallel with the hardwood.

Some have said it is critical and some have said don't matter much:confused:

[Rustydog]

We are going to put hardwood in our house and I'm getting overwhelmed with the choices of Companies. We have narrowed it down to one of Vintage, Lauzan, or Mirage. Prices for walnut are similar with all three, but I am wondering if one company is better than the others. Any suggestions?

[patrob]

Is it acceptable to install hardwood parallel to joists? We have a narrow kitchen and if we install the hardwood perpendicular to the joist it would look awkward (eyes would lead to the walls)...we would like to install it parallel so that the narrow long kitchen would be parallel with the hardwood.

Some have said it is critical and some have said don't matter much:confused:

Hardwood should be installed across the joists. If you have access from the basement, you can brace the sub-floor with braces between joists every 16". Your joists should be 12" oc in the kitchen originally. You can also install 1/4" plywood that should be more than enough. BTW, what is your sub-floor OSB or plywood & how old is the house :?:

[patrob]

We are going to put hardwood in our house and I'm getting overwhelmed with the choices of Companies. We have narrowed it down to one of Vintage, Lauzan, or Mirage. Prices for walnut are similar with all three, but I am wondering if one company is better than the others. Any suggestions?

Welcome to your 1st post on RFD :)

Mirage & Lauzon comes from Quebec. Good milling, good quality but more shorts. Vintage comes from Toronto, good milling, good quality & better lengths. IMO go with Vintage.

[hammer]

Hardwood should be installed across the joists. If you have access from the basement, you can brace the sub-floor with braces between joists every 16". Your joists should be 12" oc in the kitchen originally. You can also install 1/4" plywood that should be more than enough. BTW, what is your sub-floor OSB or plywood & how old is the house :?:

It was built in 84 and comes with 1/4 or 1/2 inch plywood..not sure but does squeek alot. By braces do you mean a 2x8 cut into appropriate segments and nailed between the joists flush to the floor? There are already 2x2 cross braces.

[hammer]

ThanX for the welcome.

This will be for my home project, I have about 750sq ft. to do. Will be all OAK. Most likely will endup doing floors for family and freinds in the future. I have in the past but rented the Bostitch Stapler. I have a 60Gal compressor in my garage, so a air stapler/nailer will be more easier for me to use. The job will run for a while so rental this time around is not economical.

Your thoughts on a reconditioned Bostitch? I have found two suppliers in the GTA that sell them at about half the cost over new.

ThanX again
Frank

Would you mind sharing the suppliers for bostitch? Anyone else rec any good places to buy manual powernail? the air ones I rented from HD broke twice on me...of course they blamed me for using too much pressure....NOT.

[letterip]

First off, I would like to thank Patrob for not only starting this wonderfully informative thread, but also for taking the time to keep it alive with such quick & detailed replies. :)

And what a terrific thread it is! A few hours ago, I started out as a flooring newbie but after reading all 20 pages of useful posts in this thread, I feel a tad more confident in making a decision for flooring

+1 !!

[malstew]

Question... I have an 3'6" by 8'2" balcony to my basement on the main floor. It has a one 90 degree corner (3'6" section meets at 90degrees the 8'2" section). How would you finish the joint between the two bullnose sections?

[patrob]

It was built in 84 and comes with 1/4 or 1/2 inch plywood..not sure but does squeek alot. By braces do you mean a 2x8 cut into appropriate segments and nailed between the joists flush to the floor? There are already 2x2 cross braces.

It's probably 5/8" plywood. Yes, for the braces use 2x6 or 2x8, depends on your joists, to fasten use screws & PL adhesive (no nails). Take the 2x2 crosses out many times they cause the squeaks.

[patrob]

+1 !!

Thanks :)

Question... I have an 3'6" by 8'2" balcony to my basement on the main floor. It has a one 90 degree corner (3'6" section meets at 90degrees the 8'2" section). How would you finish the joint between the two bullnose sections?

You mean stair landing? All joints on the the bullnose (nosing) must be mitered. 90 = 45 - 45 deg. 45 = 22.5 - 22.5 deg. & so on...

[Techhead]

Hi patrob,
When nailing or stapling an Oak floor down to a new plywood subfloor. What is the recommended spacing between the fastners?

ThanX
Frank

[hammer]

I have bought a manual nailer for cheap. However, it seems it is only good for 1/2 inch narrow skinny hardwood as the nail does not line up where it is supposed for 3/4 hardwood.:cry: Is there an adapter or some home made remedy.

[Techhead]

I have bought a manual nailer for cheap. However, it seems it is only good for 1/2 inch narrow skinny hardwood as the nail does not line up where it is supposed for 3/4 hardwood.:cry: Is there an adapter or some home made remedy.

You might need to change the bottom plate, the same as the pnumatic ones. Most do come with two plates. Search the brand and model on the interweb and see if you can come up with something.

[patrob]

Hi patrob,
When nailing or stapling an Oak floor down to a new plywood subfloor. What is the recommended spacing between the fastners?

ThanX
Frank

I recommend 6" to 8". Don't go by the book of 10" to 12".

[patrob]

I have bought a manual nailer for cheap. However, it seems it is only good for 1/2 inch narrow skinny hardwood as the nail does not line up where it is supposed for 3/4 hardwood.:cry: Is there an adapter or some home made remedy.

Unfortunately there is no other remedy except to get a new nailer. What you have is a 'strip nailer' that uses 18" gauge nails that can only be used with engineered 9/16" or the old style 3/8" strip hardwood or Bruce natural reflections series. It should not even be used with 5/8" hardwood (some Chinese hardwood is 5/8" thick). For 3/4" hardwood you must use minimum 1 3/4" or 2" nails/staples.

[Quick_lude]

Getting ready to install my hardwood, do I still need to predrill/nail the first planks or can I just nail them with the cleat nailer? I have the room and clearance.

These are the Vintage instructions:

Always work from at least 5-6 different boxes at one time. Use the longest piece available for the first row; this will ensure the straightest possible line for your floor. Lay the first row (Fig. #2) with the tongue edge flush to your chalk line. Always lay out 6-7 rows of product before installing them as to mix lengths and shades of boards, and to ensure that the end joints are not aligned to the preceding row. Pre-drill holes 1/2" from the groove side, 8-10" apart on the face of the first row. Nail through the holes with 2" finishing nails; use a nail punch to counter sink the nail. Pre-drill and blind nail (Fig. #3) on a 45° angle through the tongue on 6-8" centers. Use a nail punch to set the nails without damaging the edges of the strips.



Step #3 - Second Row
Start the second row by using the cut piece from the first row. Interlock the boards tightly on the sides and ends. Always offset the end joints by 6-8". Blind nail the second row on a 45° angle at 8-10" centers. Always place a nail 2" from the end of each board. Proceed with the next row as you have done with this row. Once there is sufficient clearance to use a power nailer, complete the remainder of the rows with the power nailer.


OR can I cleat it/glue it even though it's not a "glue on" floor? The first boards will be in a very visible area.. I don't want to make visible holes and then fill them up. :-/


I'm also looking through the boards to remove the bad ones. What about boards with slight damage/missing "wood" at the bottom of the board? You cannot see it from the top, if I install them, will they cause any issues like squeeking in the future? Should I return them. This is what I'm talking about

http://images33.fotki.com/v1117/photos/4/42946/150353/IMG_5259-vi.jpg

http://images35.fotki.com/v1153/photos/4/42946/150353/IMG_5260-vi.jpg

[patrob]

Getting ready to install my hardwood, do I still need to predrill/nail the first planks or can I just nail them with the cleat nailer? I have the room and clearance.

OR can I cleat it/glue it even though it's not a "glue on" floor? The first boards will be in a very visible area.. I don't want to make visible holes and then fill them up. :-/

I'm also looking through the boards to remove the bad ones. What about boards with slight damage/missing "wood" at the bottom of the board? You cannot see it from the top, if I install them, will they cause any issues like squeeking in the future? Should I return them. This is what I'm talking about



For example, if you are starting from tile you don't want to see any top nails on the 1st piece, so glue it & use your flooring nailer to fasten it. Use a finishing nailer (if you have one) to start & finish by the wall.

If the tongue & groove on the board is not damaged, then it's fine. It will not cause you any problems.

[sweetnlow]

Thanks. We decided to do it after the fact, we get a better product for around the same price. But you were right, a minimum of 1000 sf was required to colour match.

I lurk around the buildinghomes.ca forums and see you on there too. Thanks!


Did you actually talk to someone from the manufacturer of SF dealer? Usually manufacturers don't do custom colours unless you are buying 2,000 sq.ft. or more. They probably will closely match with something from their line.

SF is not a bad product, not my #1 choice but it's ok. $10 sounds very reasonable from the builder.

[v_tofu]

Just wondering if anyone here has hardwood in their kitchen? Our home is a open concept home, so I would like the same flooring throughout the house. I'm just worried about water and moisture from the kitchen as we like to cook.

Is hardwood fairly durable in the kitchen? Do you need a special sealer or anything like that?

[patrob]

I lurk around the buildinghomes.ca forums and see you on there too. Thanks!

;)

Just wondering if anyone here has hardwood in their kitchen? Our home is a open concept home, so I would like the same flooring throughout the house. I'm just worried about water and moisture from the kitchen as we like to cook.

Is hardwood fairly durable in the kitchen? Do you need a special sealer or anything like that?

It's very trendy to install hardwood in kitchens these days. It's a softer feel, a lot warmer than tile or stone & looks great especially with an open concept design.

But having said that, I personally don't recommend it. Kitchen has the highest traffic area & over time walking on small grains of salt, bread crumbs, etc., the finish will wear a lot faster. Manufacturers actually point it out in their maintenance/warranty pamphlet, that in a high traffic areas, you should use a floor mat to prevent finish wear.

To give you an example, I know someone that installed the highest quality product in their kitchen which was used very heavily, and they called in after 2 years, that their finish is worn out. Manufacturer sent in their rep, he walked in & saw that there was no floor mat used & walked out. He said that there is no more warranty on the finish. The people had to re-finish the floors at their own cost.

[v_tofu]

;)



It's very trendy to install hardwood in kitchens these days. It's a softer feel, a lot warmer than tile or stone & looks great especially with an open concept design.

But having said that, I personally don't recommend it. Kitchen has the highest traffic area & over time walking on small grains of salt, bread crumbs, etc., the finish will wear a lot faster. Manufacturers actually point it out in their maintenance/warranty pamphlet, that in a high traffic areas, you should use a floor mat to prevent finish wear.

To give you an example, I know someone that installed the highest quality product in their kitchen which was used very heavily, and they called in after 2 years, that their finish is worn out. Manufacturer sent in their rep, he walked in & saw that there was no floor mat used & walked out. He said that there is no more warranty on the finish. The people had to re-finish the floors at their own cost.


Thanks.. i was afraid of that. It was one of my main concerns when we were goin gwith the open concept home.:cry:

i guess i'll hav eto go half HW and half tiles. though it'll look kinda weird to have it split down the middle:cry:

[hammer]

In my opinion, it is still worth it. Just make sure you use a nice rug in high traffic areas. Worse come to worst, just sand and varnish provided it is natural colour.

Q. We have 1/2 inch natural oak in the dinning room and thinking of 3/4 inch natural maple in the kitchen. We have broken the loadbearing wall down between the 2 rooms. What is the best way to blend these 2 floors such that it doesn't look awkward...should we put a metal divider, a riser...or do you suggest doing the whole dinning room in maple as well...somewhat wastefull since it was done 2 years ago by pros.

voted:razz:

[ScoobySnacks]

I had a flood back in january. Since then I installed dri-core and engineered hardwood.

The bad news is my basement flooded again yesterday :(

The good news is the dri core saved most of the hardwood.

I did the first install myself, which looked great... I don't want to do it again :(

Will an installer charge me the same price per sq/f for installing my 3 month old engineered hardwood or will they charge more?

Also, what do you think they will charge to install the dri-core?

[patrob]

Q. We have 1/2 inch natural oak in the dinning room and thinking of 3/4 inch natural maple in the kitchen. We have broken the loadbearing wall down between the 2 rooms. What is the best way to blend these 2 floors such that it doesn't look awkward...should we put a metal divider, a riser...or do you suggest doing the whole dinning room in maple as well...somewhat wastefull since it was done 2 years ago by pros.

voted:razz:

How much of the existing oak floor is installed? If you remove it gently line by line, you can still reuse approx. 70% of it. I would take it out & install maple throughout. It will just look better IMO and you will avoid transition heights between 1/2" & 3/4".

And thanks for the vote ;)

[patrob]

I had a flood back in january. Since then I installed dri-core and engineered hardwood.

The bad news is my basement flooded again yesterday :(

The good news is the dri core saved most of the hardwood.

I did the first install myself, which looked great... I don't want to do it again :(

Will an installer charge me the same price per sq/f for installing my 3 month old engineered hardwood or will they charge more?

Also, what do you think they will charge to install the dri-core?

Did you take the hardwood off? Is it re-usable? If you reselect the damaged boards & have room for forgiveness in case of little defects, they should charge you the same or maybe pennies more per sq. ft.

Who installed the original dri-core? A lot of hardwood installers don't want to do it.

[ScoobySnacks]

I installed everything myself, but don't want to do any of it again. I'm just depressed that all my hard work has gone to waste.

Yeah I took it all off, and its the click system btw.

The dri core isnt hard to install, its just double the time because of double the cuts :(

[ScoobySnacks]

Youtube video of my flood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL2sWI7Gfjs) :(

[Van G]

I'm in the market for 1700 sqft of red Oak: 3" x 3/4", pre-finished Walnut, Select and Better

Looking for supply only price. Currently my best price is $4.60 plus tax incl delivery.

[patrob]

I installed everything myself, but don't want to do any of it again. I'm just depressed that all my hard work has gone to waste.

Yeah I took it all off, and its the click system btw.

The dri core isnt hard to install, its just double the time because of double the cuts :(

What about the insurance? Aren't they doing the work?

It is double the time, so the installer will charge you his time, why not try to save some money & do the dri-core yourself.

[patrob]

I'm in the market for 1700 sqft of red Oak: 3" x 3/4", pre-finished Walnut, Select and Better

Looking for supply only price. Currently my best price is $4.60 plus tax incl delivery.

You mean a "walnut" colour? Anything below $5 is a great price. But still depends on the manufacturer.

[kevine]

Great thread - there's a ton of great info here.

My question is around RH levels - our house is quite dry (low 30"s) right now - I assume it's even dryer in the dead of winter. We live in Saskatchewan, so it is dryer here that out east at the best of times.

What are your thoughts around the type of flooring I should be looking at in this scenario (Laminate, engineered, hardwoord)? We'd really like to go with hardwood, but are worried about fluctuation RH levels and what that may do to the floors.

I hear that the exotic hardwoods have a tendancy to shrink at low humidity levels, and don't expand as much when the RH levels are higher, leaving permanent "cracks" between the boards.

Thanks in advance!


Any help / info would be appreciated!

[live wire]

Hi Patrob,

Great thread, I have a scenerio that I don't think has been answered here yet. I am thinking of installing hardwood flooring up at the cottage in the next couple of years. Obviously, there is no climate control...very humid in the summer and the heat is shut off in the winter.

- Will there be very "bad" expansion and contraction?
- I know that you are suppose to let the wood climatize for a few days before the instalation, but since there is no climate control in the cottage, is this necessary?
- Is there any "better" time to install or avoid (ie really humid days, when the wood would be at the highest expansion)?
- I know felt/ tar paper is suppose to help with the humidity, but is this necessary in a cottage scenario?
- I will be looking for the wider (6-8") planks, lower quality ( won't mind any knotts since it is for the cottage). Any brands or stores that you would recommend?
- Have you ever looked at the flooring nailer sold at Princess Auto??? What do you think of the quality ?

Thanks.

[Van G]

You mean a "walnut" colour? Anything below $5 is a great price. But still depends on the manufacturer.

My mistake -> 'Walnut' stained Red Oak - thanks for pointing that out.

[patrob]

Great thread - there's a ton of great info here.

My question is around RH levels - our house is quite dry (low 30"s) right now - I assume it's even dryer in the dead of winter. We live in Saskatchewan, so it is dryer here that out east at the best of times.

What are your thoughts around the type of flooring I should be looking at in this scenario (Laminate, engineered, hardwoord)? We'd really like to go with hardwood, but are worried about fluctuation RH levels and what that may do to the floors.

I hear that the exotic hardwoods have a tendancy to shrink at low humidity levels, and don't expand as much when the RH levels are higher, leaving permanent "cracks" between the boards.

Thanks in advance!

Any help / info would be appreciated!

BTW,welcome to your 1st post on RFD ;)

Definitely go with engineered hardwood in a domestic species. But why not install a humidifier which will give you control over RH.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Great thread, I have a scenerio that I don't think has been answered here yet. I am thinking of installing hardwood flooring up at the cottage in the next couple of years. Obviously, there is no climate control...very humid in the summer and the heat is shut off in the winter.

- Will there be very "bad" expansion and contraction?
- I know that you are suppose to let the wood climatize for a few days before the instalation, but since there is no climate control in the cottage, is this necessary?
- Is there any "better" time to install or avoid (ie really humid days, when the wood would be at the highest expansion)?
- I know felt/ tar paper is suppose to help with the humidity, but is this necessary in a cottage scenario?
- I will be looking for the wider (6-8") planks, lower quality ( won't mind any knotts since it is for the cottage). Any brands or stores that you would recommend?
- Have you ever looked at the flooring nailer sold at Princess Auto??? What do you think of the quality ?

Thanks.
I would definitely try to install in early spring or late fall when the humidity level is lower. Is there a basement in the cottage or crawl space? If crawl, install felt/tar paper. Anything above 5" planks will cap tremendously in humid conditions. For this kind of floors, it's a different installation procedure (screws & plugs). There are some manufacturers of wider plank engineered which is a lot better for these conditions.

Stick with a lower grade, knottier, more colourful product which will take your eyes off any gaps & will hide any potential damage in the floor.

The stapler at Princess Auto is a knock off Bostitch for $175. And 5 days rental at HD will cost you around $200, so you got your answer;) Princess Auto also has a great satisfaction guarantee, so if it breaks, just take it back. Not the best choice for professionals but a great for a DIY'er.

[ScoobySnacks]

yeah insurance says they'll cover it, so I'll just get them to install everything. The only reason I asked is because I have a limit. Also, Do you know anything about french drains or anything similar? I need to install something so this flooding doesn't happen again..

[patrob]

yeah insurance says they'll cover it, so I'll just get them to install everything. The only reason I asked is because I have a limit. Also, Do you know anything about french drains or anything similar? I need to install something so this flooding doesn't happen again..

Good to know that the insurance will cover the costs. Not familiar with the French drain but it does look similar to a weeping tile. Looks like a major project if you are planning to do it yourself.

Good luck :)

[Van G]

I second the motion to consider putting a humidifier on your furnace if you can. Good for you house and better for your family!

[patrob]

I second the motion to consider putting a humidifier on your furnace if you can. Good for you house and better for your family!

I agree :)

[Dster]

Great thread, searched it and read a bunch before this post.

I am moving into an old house that has a mixture of laminate and carpet in four bedrooms (about 500 sq. ft. combined) on the second floor, thinking of replacing it all with hardwood.

I priced Goodfellow 2 and 1/4 Birch at 2.99/sq. ft. today, with the 3 and 1/8 at 3.69.

There's this really nice looking natural Bamboo by good fellow in 3 and 3/8 for 3.69/sq. ft.

I think it looks great in the horizontal, from eye level the end points give it a nice look.

My major worry is resale value due to the difficulty of refinishing Bamboo. Any thoughts?

Also, I have two cats that managed to scratch the laminate flooring a fair amount in my last place. Any thoughts on how badly they will hurt hardwood?

thanks for all the help!

[newbie_07]

hi

We were looking to change our ground floor and put in superior wood.

Does any one know if this is a good type of wood and also which stores carry this wood for a good price.

Thanks

[sujat]

Hello All,
I am looking for wood for my living room.

MY wife and I particularly like the WHITE OAK - Red wine.

What do you think a good price would be? We were given a quote of 4.09 for the same.

Thanks

[Techhead]

hi

We were looking to change our ground floor and put in superior wood.

Does any one know if this is a good type of wood and also which stores carry this wood for a good price.

Thanks

I'm in the midst of laying 700+ sq ft of Superior Natural White Oak (I like light wood). So far I have about 250sq down and am quite happy with the results. Cracked open almost 10 boxes and have come across maybe 3 boards that had slight imperfections, they will end up in mt closets.

Where ya located? I can name a couple that priced my wood at.

[patrob]

Great thread, searched it and read a bunch before this post.

I am moving into an old house that has a mixture of laminate and carpet in four bedrooms (about 500 sq. ft. combined) on the second floor, thinking of replacing it all with hardwood.

I priced Goodfellow 2 and 1/4 Birch at 2.99/sq. ft. today, with the 3 and 1/8 at 3.69.

There's this really nice looking natural Bamboo by good fellow in 3 and 3/8 for 3.69/sq. ft.

I think it looks great in the horizontal, from eye level the end points give it a nice look.

My major worry is resale value due to the difficulty of refinishing Bamboo. Any thoughts?

Also, I have two cats that managed to scratch the laminate flooring a fair amount in my last place. Any thoughts on how badly they will hurt hardwood?

thanks for all the help!

The natural bamboo from Goodfellow is actually good. The price is also pretty ok. Birch is on the softer scale. Both of the products in natural look similar, so the choice is yours. Bamboo is harder to refinish but don't think about it at this time, if you like the look then get it. Goodfellow's finish is actually good on bamboo, so should withstand your two "tigers" :D

[patrob]

We were looking to change our ground floor and put in superior wood.

Does any one know if this is a good type of wood and also which stores carry this wood for a good price.

Thanks

It's a good product, just avoid the second grade. Reg. prices, too many dealers, so call around or Techhead can tell you where he got his ;)

[patrob]

Hello All,
I am looking for wood for my living room.

MY wife and I particularly like the WHITE OAK - Red wine.

What do you think a good price would be? We were given a quote of 4.09 for the same.

Thanks

Everyone will always have diff. opinions on what a good price is & what quality of wood you get for that price. I have seen wood from $.99 to over $20 sq. ft. So anything around $5-6 is reasonable. Don't just look at the price & it's only a living room, so it's around 200 sq. ft., on average the price difference will be around $300. That's nothing for floors. So if you like the product for $4.09, then it's a good price. As long as you are happy with your choice, that's all that matters ;)

[Dster]

The natural bamboo from Goodfellow is actually good. The price is also pretty ok. Birch is on the softer scale. Both of the products in natural look similar, so the choice is yours. Bamboo is harder to refinish but don't think about it at this time, if you like the look then get it. Goodfellow's finish is actually good on bamboo, so should withstand your two "tigers" :D

Thanks -- it's nice to hear that a budget product can sometimes actually be a good deal.

What are your thoughts on resale? Some people seem to think that bamboo might be a fad that will end up bringing resale value down like shag carpet.

[patrob]

Thanks -- it's nice to hear that a budget product can sometimes actually be a good deal.

What are your thoughts on resale? Some people seem to think that bamboo might be a fad that will end up bringing resale value down like shag carpet.

Personally, I am not a fan of bamboo floors but every house has its buyer ;)

How long are you planning to stay in the house?

[Dster]

Personally, I am not a fan of bamboo floors but every house has its buyer ;)

How long are you planning to stay in the house?

At least two years, maybe much longer.

[patrob]

At least two years, maybe much longer.

If you really like bamboo, then go for it. It is very trendy now, so you should not have problems with re-sale, plus like I said - every house has its buyer ;)

[Techhead]

patrob,

I'm looking for an opinion on how you would finnish a room? I am almost done my livingroom and close to the back wall. How do you complete a room?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3199/2404769487_ff8a0fca95_m.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3199/2404769487_d6bc2feb31_o.jpg) <<< Click for larger view. ( Dial-up BEWARE) :cheesygri

I have in the past just used my 18AWG brad nailer/stapler but noticed the boards are not as tight as the rest of the room. Idears are very much welcomed. ;)

Secondly,
The transition between my livingroom and kitchen.
In the kitchen I have High Density Flooring that resembles a marble floor. Been down for 8 yrs and still looks like the day I put it down.
In your opinion, what would be the better transition peice?
1) A peice that matches the kitchen floor?
2) A Oak peice tha matches the Livingroom floor?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2397/2404769061_3f643e3fd2_m.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2397/2404769061_3137f3b486_o.jpg) <<< Click for larger view. ( Dial-up BEWARE) :cheesygri

BTW: I returned the Paslode 2 in 1 as it only had a 90 day warranty. :mad: And just picked up a RONA Branded stapler. Made off shore but at least a 3yr warranty. So far it has been stable.

ThanX
Frank

[patrob]

Techhead, you should be able to nail to about 4 boards from the wall. Rest of the boards, tap it tight & nail it 3-4" apart with your finishing nailer, same as the stapler. 1 before & last board you have to nail it from the top (some people glue those boards & nail the last board from the top that will be covered with the baseboard but I strictly don't recommend it because the wood is not expanding. Same as installing the wood tight to the wall)

The treshold, you should have cut the treshold from your new floor. Leave the finish untouched & cut from the bottom. Set your table saw about 3/16" away from the blade, tilt it around 7 degrees & cut from the groove down. WATCH YOUR FINGERS So it cuts from 3/16" to 3/4". Then flip the board down, set your blade back to 0 & cut the tongue off so you get back your angle. Confused yet :D

That will be your new treshold which you set with the thin end on your vinyl tiles to cover the uneven edge & you have your other end 3/4" to butt into your new wood. Looks like in your case, from looking at the pic, you will need a wider board like 4 1/4" or wider to make your new treshold piece.

All 2-in-1 nailer/staplers suck, because it uses a wider blade to punch the nail.

[Techhead]

The treshold, you should have cut the treshold from your new floor. Leave the finish untouched & cut from the bottom. Set your table saw about 3/16" away from the blade, tilt it around 7 degrees & cut from the groove down. WATCH YOUR FINGERS So it cuts from 3/16" to 3/4". Then flip the board down, set your blade back to 0 & cut the tongue off so you get back your angle. Confused yet :D


VERY :confused: :lol: You wouldn't happen to have a cross sectional pic or diagram of your explination? I have one more threshold to do, between my hall and bathroom.

ThanX

[newbie_07]

I'm in the midst of laying 700+ sq ft of Superior Natural White Oak (I like light wood). So far I have about 250sq down and am quite happy with the results. Cracked open almost 10 boxes and have come across maybe 3 boards that had slight imperfections, they will end up in mt closets.

Where ya located? I can name a couple that priced my wood at.


We are located in Richmond Hill.

Thanks

[patrob]

VERY :confused: :lol: You wouldn't happen to have a cross sectional pic or diagram of your explination? I have one more threshold to do, between my hall and bathroom.

ThanX

I had a feeling you might get confused, it's hard to explain stuff like this sometimes :D PM sent ;)

[Techhead]

We are located in Richmond Hill.

Thanks

PM sent with some locations.

[TTony]

Techhead,rip up that wax paper,use carpenter glue for last 2 row ,use your nailer for sideway when you start hammering the wall , and you need 16 gauge nailer for last row,18 gauge not strong enough.

[Techhead]

Techhead,rip up that wax paper,use carpenter glue for last 2 row ,use your nailer for sideway when you start hammering the wall , and you need 16 gauge nailer for last row,18 gauge not strong enough.

ThanX, but personally I would not use glue as this will not allow for expansion.
On the last row, I tend to use "Trim Head Screws" that will hide under the baseboards.

I used my 18 gauge 2 yrs ago in a bedroom and have not problems with that floor.

[patrob]

Installers use glue on the last 2 boards only to avoid top nailing before the last row. For that reason you have coloured wood fillers. Screws are not needed, last row by the wall should also be nailed to allow for movement otherwise if your floor expands it will lift up or cap in the middle. NO GLUE, NO SCREWS!

Use glue only on thresholds, mitered joints, & joints in transitions with no tongue & groove connection, that includes nosings.

16 gauge nails are preferable, with 18 gauge, just nail it more.

[Dster]

Anybody know Novo brand bamboo flooring? Is it as good as the Goodfellow brand?

I found a price of $3/sq. ft. on it.

[patrob]

Anybody know Novo brand bamboo flooring? Is it as good as the Goodfellow brand?

I found a price of $3/sq. ft. on it.
Not familiar with Novo brand. But the Goodfellow bamboo is decent quality. I say stick with Goodfellow.

[Tbsguy]

First let me say thank you to Patrob and the others for all the great info ! I have a question regarding the tools. I am starting a 700 sq. ft. job soon. Probably more to come later. I looked around for a nailer. After checking out some knockoffs, their availability, etc. I decided to go high end and got the Bostitch MIIIFN, flooring nailer at HD. (a little pricey but figured in the long run would be worth it). Needing a compressor I found on sale (at HD a Bostitch CAP2060P ( 6 gallon) compressor that included an SB-1850BN 1-5/8” 18 Gauge Brad Nailer, which I need for the trim.
The nailer spec's say the air consumption required is, 4.2cfm at 80 psi to operate at 60 fasteners per minute, and 50% of that at 30 fasteners per minute. The compressor's Air Delivery: @ 40 PSI 3.7 CFM @90 psi 2.8 CFM, Operating Pressure: 0 - 150 PSI. I'm new at all this, so after all that my question: is this compressor adequate and sufficient to properly utilize the nailer for my job or should I have purchased a larger one ?. I'm basically doing the job myself so I certainly won't be breaking any speed limits with this nailer.

thanks

[patrob]

First let me say thank you to Patrob and the others for all the great info ! I have a question regarding the tools. I am starting a 700 sq. ft. job soon. Probably more to come later. I looked around for a nailer. After checking out some knockoffs, their availability, etc. I decided to go high end and got the Bostitch MIIIFN, flooring nailer at HD. (a little pricey but figured in the long run would be worth it). Needing a compressor I found on sale (at HD a Bostitch CAP2060P ( 6 gallon) compressor that included an SB-1850BN 1-5/8” 18 Gauge Brad Nailer, which I need for the trim.
The nailer spec's say the air consumption required is, 4.2cfm at 80 psi to operate at 60 fasteners per minute, and 50% of that at 30 fasteners per minute. The compressor's Air Delivery: @ 40 PSI 3.7 CFM @90 psi 2.8 CFM, Operating Pressure: 0 - 150 PSI. I'm new at all this, so after all that my question: is this compressor adequate and sufficient to properly utilize the nailer for my job or should I have purchased a larger one ?. I'm basically doing the job myself so I certainly won't be breaking any speed limits with this nailer.

thanks

BTW, welcome to your 1st post on RFD :)

The CFM @ PSI it means the speed of air delivery at pressure. Bostitch MIIIFN needs more air, lets say 3.6 CFM @ 100 PSI which is pretty fast, but sometimes is not adequate enough. The one you bought is meant for slower, smaller jobs like trim & small woodwork but not for higher air consumption like flooring stapler or nailer. The compressor air delivery might be slowing you down while nailing. There is a saying, if your compressor works 50% of your work time, it's not adequate enough :idea:

There is a nice compressor from Ridgid dual tank or preferably Hitachi, around $300 for compressor alone.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/OIL-LUBRICATED-AIR-COMPRESSOR/EN/index.htm
http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_item.php?iID=175&arrPath=1,9,49,p175,

Forgot to mention, stick with oil-lubed compressors.

Hope this helps.

[turbogerbil]

I have natural maple hardwood stairs and carpeted floors on the main level. I am looking to replace the carpet with hardwood - must I go with natural maple flooring (because it will show scratches easily) or does a different species work well with this wood tone?

thx

[Techhead]

First let me say thank you to Patrob and the others for all the great info ! I have a question regarding the tools. I am starting a 700 sq. ft. job soon. Probably more to come later. I looked around for a nailer. After checking out some knockoffs, their availability, etc. I decided to go high end and got the Bostitch MIIIFN, flooring nailer at HD. (a little pricey but figured in the long run would be worth it). Needing a compressor I found on sale (at HD a Bostitch CAP2060P ( 6 gallon) compressor that included an SB-1850BN 1-5/8” 18 Gauge Brad Nailer, which I need for the trim.
The nailer spec's say the air consumption required is, 4.2cfm at 80 psi to operate at 60 fasteners per minute, and 50% of that at 30 fasteners per minute. The compressor's Air Delivery: @ 40 PSI 3.7 CFM @90 psi 2.8 CFM, Operating Pressure: 0 - 150 PSI. I'm new at all this, so after all that my question: is this compressor adequate and sufficient to properly utilize the nailer for my job or should I have purchased a larger one ?. I'm basically doing the job myself so I certainly won't be breaking any speed limits with this nailer.

thanks

BTW, welcome to your 1st post on RFD :)

The CFM @ PSI it means the speed of air delivery at pressure. Bostitch MIIIFN needs more air, lets say 3.6 CFM @ 100 PSI which is pretty fast, but sometimes is not adequate enough. The one you bought is meant for slower, smaller jobs like trim & small woodwork but not for higher air consumption like flooring stapler or nailer. The compressor air delivery might be slowing you down while nailing. There is a saying, if your compressor works 50% of your work time, it's not adequate enough :idea:

There is a nice compressor from Ridgid dual tank or preferably Hitachi, around $300 for compressor alone.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/OIL-LUBRICATED-AIR-COMPRESSOR/EN/index.htm
http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_item.php?iID=175&arrPath=1,9,49,p175,

Forgot to mention, stick with oil-lubed compressors.

Hope this helps.

Oil-lubed as petrob mentioned is the way to go.

The Ridgid compressor is only 50% Duty Cycle.
Also take a look at :arrow:
Ingersoll Rand DD2T2 - Single Stage Twin Stack Air Compressor, 100% Duty Cycle (http://www.everyaircompressor.com/Ingersoll-Rand-DD2T2-IRC1000.html#ProdDetails)

my .02 cents.

[butter]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but I have a couple of questions.

Our stairs are oak and are being stained a dark graphite colour. If we are to get pre-engineered hardwood for the rest of the main floor, how hard is it to match up the stain colours?

For an ~536 sqft area (or ~ 590 w/10%), what kind of cost should we be expecting if we were to go with pre-engineered oak with a dark graphite stain in either Vintage, Mirage or Satin Finish.

thanks in advance

[hammer]

Thoughts on brampton hardwood and their contractor pricing?

[lapse]

NO GLUE, NO SCREWS!

I'm curious as to why the no glue -- aside from needing a lot of it. If the floor expands then what happens to the nails? They serve, at least in my mind, the same function as the glue: to keep to floor from moving. But if there is expansion, then wouldn't the nails fastening the hardwood to the subfloor also cause lifting ?

[butter]

I'm curious as to why the no glue -- aside from needing a lot of it. If the floor expands then what happens to the nails? They serve, at least in my mind, the same function as the glue: to keep to floor from moving. But if there is expansion, then wouldn't the nails fastening the hardwood to the subfloor also cause lifting ?
I just saw on Holmes on Homes recently that some guy was using glue on the hardwood, but the glue is formulated to allow movement for expansion/contraction.

[Tbsguy]

First let me say thank you to Patrob and the others for all the great info ! I have a question regarding the tools. I am starting a 700 sq. ft. job soon. Probably more to come later. I looked around for a nailer. After checking out some knockoffs, their availability, etc. I decided to go high end and got the Bostitch MIIIFN, flooring nailer at HD. (a little pricey but figured in the long run would be worth it). Needing a compressor I found on sale (at HD a Bostitch CAP2060P ( 6 gallon) compressor that included an SB-1850BN 1-5/8” 18 Gauge Brad Nailer, which I need for the trim.
The nailer spec's say the air consumption required is, 4.2cfm at 80 psi to operate at 60 fasteners per minute, and 50% of that at 30 fasteners per minute. The compressor's Air Delivery: @ 40 PSI 3.7 CFM @90 psi 2.8 CFM, Operating Pressure: 0 - 150 PSI. I'm new at all this, so after all that my question: is this compressor adequate and sufficient to properly utilize the nailer for my job or should I have purchased a larger one ?. I'm basically doing the job myself so I certainly won't be breaking any speed limits with this nailer.

thanks

Thanks for your feedback. I had a gut feeling I was under powered for that nailer. I couldn't get a clear answer from the sales people. All I got was, "that one should be fine or it should work ok, a small compressor is all you should neeed, etc.". I've looked at your suggestions all look good. Could I get your opinion on this one;
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=971150&Ntt=971150&catalogId=&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=113342&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

Spec's say: 4.2 cfm @ 90 psi. and it's oil lubricated.

Also from Techhead:
The Ridgid compressor is only 50% Duty Cycle.
Also take a look at
Ingersoll Rand DD2T2 - Single Stage Twin Stack Air Compressor, 100% Duty Cycle

What does 50% or 100% duty cycle mean ?
What would the duty cycle of the Makita be, would it be adequate ?


again thank you ....

[patrob]

I have natural maple hardwood stairs and carpeted floors on the main level. I am looking to replace the carpet with hardwood - must I go with natural maple flooring (because it will show scratches easily) or does a different species work well with this wood tone?

thx

Anything in light natural coloured species will go well (like ash, hickory, hard pine, birch & of course maple)

[patrob]

I'm curious as to why the no glue -- aside from needing a lot of it. If the floor expands then what happens to the nails? They serve, at least in my mind, the same function as the glue: to keep to floor from moving. But if there is expansion, then wouldn't the nails fastening the hardwood to the subfloor also cause lifting ?

If the sub-floor is very clean & you glue those 2 boards to the sub-floor it's like installing a barrier from the rest of the floor expanding. Nails will give a little bit more flexibility, PL adhesive is more flexible but glues like carpenter's glue or high solids adhesives dry hard. There is no need for the glue against the wall, like I said, they do it only to avoid top-nailing to avoid filling in the nail holes. Nobody will tell you to glue down your solid hardwood floor, but they do tell you to nail it :idea:

Remember wood expands & contracts & in this country there is a lot of humidity & dryness, so give the wood a chance to move. The only floor that you are supposed to glue is engineered.

[patrob]

I just saw on Holmes on Homes recently that some guy was using glue on the hardwood, but the glue is formulated to allow movement for expansion/contraction.

It must have been PL adhesive or moisture cure or maybe engineered floor was used. You glue around thresholds, nosings & no need anywhere else.

[Techhead]

Also from Techhead:
The Ridgid compressor is only 50% Duty Cycle.
Also take a look at
Ingersoll Rand DD2T2 - Single Stage Twin Stack Air Compressor, 100% Duty Cycle

What does 50% or 100% duty cycle mean ? SEE BELOW
What would the duty cycle of the Makita be, would it be adequate ? NO


again thank you ....

The Makita one you link to is only 50% duty cycle..

From thier manual:
"All Makita manufactured air
compressors are recommended
to be operated on not more than
a 50% duty cycle. This means an
air compressor that pumps air
more than 50% of one hour is
considered misuse because the
air compressor is undersized for
the required air demand."

Knowing the duty cycle is very important before you buy a compressor. The duty cycle is expressed as a percentage and tells you the number of minutes the compressor is allowed to run out of a 10 minute period. For example, a low quality hobby compressor usually has a 50 % duty cycle, which means it shouldn’t run more than 5 minutes out of any 10 minute period. If you exceed the duty cycle the pump will get too hot and won’t last as long as it should. Most industrial compressors have at least a 75% duty cycle and some are as high as 100%, which means you can run them continuously.


example, a Super Duty 5HP compressor with a 100% duty cycle can actually produce more continuous air than a Heavy Duty 7.5HP compressor with a typical 75% duty cycle. You will usually get better value by spending a little more money to get a compressor with a longer duty cycle.

The IR Compressor is comparable in price to the other three, and will out perform all of them for years to come.

[patrob]

Thanks for your feedback. I had a gut feeling I was under powered for that nailer. I couldn't get a clear answer from the sales people. All I got was, "that one should be fine or it should work ok, a small compressor is all you should neeed, etc.". I've looked at your suggestions all look good. Could I get your opinion on this one;
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=971150&Ntt=971150&catalogId=&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=113342&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

Spec's say: 4.2 cfm @ 90 psi. and it's oil lubricated.


There is a place in Toronto you can get the Hitachi EC12 for $269 plus tax, so I think it's a better deal & from my experience it's been working 5 days a week for the last 7 years with 0 repairs, just change the oil (every 5K:D) Many times running 2 flooring nailers simultaneously!

http://www.hitachipowertools.com/product/files/pneumatics/compressors/EC12_angle1.jpg_prod_mx.jpg

[patrob]

I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but I have a couple of questions.

Our stairs are oak and are being stained a dark graphite colour. If we are to get pre-engineered hardwood for the rest of the main floor, how hard is it to match up the stain colours?

For an ~536 sqft area (or ~ 590 w/10%), what kind of cost should we be expecting if we were to go with pre-engineered oak with a dark graphite stain in either Vintage, Mirage or Satin Finish.

thanks in advance

You mean pre-finished? There is Charcoal from Mirage, Pewter from Vintage & Graphite from Satin Finish, they are all close. The stairs will be slightly darker for sure so any of those colours will be fine.

Price wise, it depends on which brand, grade & size. For sure it will be less than $10 sq. ft. installed.

[patrob]

Thoughts on brampton hardwood and their contractor pricing?

Contractor pricing :rolleyes: They just call it that :D Sometimes a homeowner will get a better price than a contractor would, depends who the sales person is. Max discount from what I know at some places is 7%. There is not a lot of discount for contractors on hardwood vs. tiles or other products.

I don't have any good feedback on flooring products they sell but they have OK prices for supplies.

[loudsubz]

Thoughts on brampton hardwood and their contractor pricing?

We bought all our wood from them and we have had 0 issues with it. Some shorter boards in the packages but we managed to disperse them enough to get a variety.

Its stood up over a year no with no issues.

[patrob]

We bought all our wood from them and we have had 0 issues with it. Some shorter boards in the packages but we managed to disperse them enough to get a variety.

Its stood up over a year no with no issues.

Brampton Flooring doesn't sell anything good quality, except for Torlys laminate, Bruce & Mercier. They sell ok stuff for the buck.

But over all, they don't have the best customer service. Their stock is severely mishandled in the back, haven't noticed any climatization equipment, few times customers that bought wood there & got it home were very disappointed with many damaged boards in the boxes & were stuck with it.

Some people get lucky I guess.

[hammer]

Brampton Flooring doesn't sell anything good quality, except for Torlys laminate, Bruce & Mercier. They sell ok stuff for the buck.

But over all, they don't have the best customer service. Their stock is severely mishandled in the back, haven't noticed any climatization equipment, few times customers that bought wood there & got it home were very disappointed with many damaged boards in the boxes & were stuck with it.

Some people get lucky I guess.

Not even the Mercier, my friend bought 1000 sqft and found that there were 2 distinct colours although the same wood/serial/colour code/number...the boxes were different so he figured it was from the previous year mixed with the current. However, he is happy with his st. lawrence maple.

What are some other stores you recommend?

[patrob]

Not even the Mercier, my friend bought 1000 sqft and found that there were 2 distinct colours although the same wood/serial/colour code/number...the boxes were different so he figured it was from the previous year mixed with the current. However, he is happy with his st. lawrence maple.

What are some other stores you recommend?

At their stock it happens so often that they sell you for example 500 ft. with 3 diff. production dates & it will show diff. shades of colours & for some manufacturers even diff. milling :rolleyes: Why do you think they don't have their own installers:?: If they would start installing products they sell, the number of complaints & service calls would put them out of business! It's a lot easier to sell & forget than sell & service what you sell :idea:

BTW, what are you looking for & how much are you willing to spend? I have a feeling you won't like anything from Brampton Flooring :D

[hammer]

Looking for about 900 sqft of 4.25 inchers in natural maple...500 if we decide not to do the main foyer. Looking to spend 5k.

[patrob]

Looking for about 900 sqft of 4.25 inchers in natural maple...500 if we decide not to do the main foyer. Looking to spend 5k.

Hmmm...4" maple which is pretty popular in a better quality grade @ $5.55 sq. ft., that will be tough :| You can buy some "birch" maple from China for less than $5 :lol:

[rockym20]

Do you have any experience with the Roxston brand (imported). What about Makibois out of Quebec?

[patrob]

Do you have any experience with the Roxston brand (imported). What about Makibois out of Quebec?

Nope, never heard of them :|

[Tbsguy]

I think this was covered in early post but I can't find it. I am replacing carpet and laying 3/4 in. hardwood in three rooms, that meet ceramic tile in the hall.The hardwood threshold is a 1/4 in. higher than the tile. What is the best way to level the threshold ? Bevel the wood and stain, bevel underside ?? Just not sure, what the pro's do ?

Thanks

[patrob]

I think this was covered in early post but I can't find it. I am replacing carpet and laying 3/4 in. hardwood in three rooms, that meet ceramic tile in the hall.The hardwood threshold is a 1/4 in. higher than the tile. What is the best way to level the threshold ? Bevel the wood and stain, bevel underside ?? Just not sure, what the pro's do ?

Thanks

Post #374 talks how to make a threshold in general, hope you don't get confused because it's hard to explain really :D

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6682945&postcount=374

[Tbsguy]

Yeh ... confused. But good news is I still have all my fingers! Looks like you sent a PM to help. Can you forward it to me.

Thanks.

[patrob]

HOW TO CUT A THRESHOLD

It's a very dangerous operation. If you are not comfortable around a table saw, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT :!:

- Measure the thickness needed
- Adjust the fence on the right side of the blade to that thickness
- Extend your blade to the height so it cuts the board on it's side
- Place the board finished side towards the fence & the groove side down
- Adjust the blade angle so it cuts your desired thickness to 3/4" (the thinner the front, the greater the angle)
- Make sure your fence & angle is firmly tightened
- After cutting the angle, lower your blade to the thickness of your board (+-3/4") & set it to 0
- For example if cutting 3 1/4", set your fence at 3 1/4" or so (when cutting you don't cut off the micro-bevel)
on the right side of the blade & cut the board with the thinner side at the fence, finished side up so it cuts off
the tongue & leaves you with a straight edge

If you understood all of that, you just made yourself a threshold :razz:

[Tbsguy]

OK, I now get it . Now it makes perfect sense. Your detailed explanation was great and made it very clear. I do feel comfortable with a table saw to do this. But I`ll give you a finger count when I`m finished my thresholds. Next question, I was looking for a nailer but could only find a combo stapler-nailer at a reasonable price (or purchase a Bostitch nailer for over $600 dollars) and I`m going to use the combo with nails. Since I could only find a combo stapler-nailer and as per an earlier post: Combo nailer/staplers use a wider blade to punch the nail, would it be better using the combo with staples instead of the nails or go with the nails and hope for the best ?

Thanks

[patrob]

OK, I now get it . Now it makes perfect sense. Your detailed explanation was great and made it very clear. I do feel comfortable with a table saw to do this. But I`ll give you a finger count when I`m finished my thresholds. Next question, I was looking for a nailer but could only find a combo stapler-nailer at a reasonable price (or purchase a Bostitch nailer for over $600 dollars) and I`m going to use the combo with nails. Since I could only find a combo stapler-nailer and as per an earlier post: Combo nailer/staplers use a wider blade to punch the nail, would it be better using the combo with staples instead of the nails or go with the nails and hope for the best ?

Thanks
Nailers you can use with every species of wood & every structure solid or engineered. You can't use staplers on engineered or dense solids like maple or harder. The combo works better with staples than nails but occasionally you can switch to nails. The combo nailers tend to break more often. Staples are also cheaper than nails & that wide blade is really meant for staples, they only converted the magazine for people to choose between nails or staples to make everybody happy.

There must be a reason why Bostitch started making nailers & conversion kits from staples to nails :rolleyes: Few years ago Bostitch did not even make flooring nailers.

[lapse]

patrob, thanks for the instructions on making a threshold.

I have a question about the tongue removal. Would you be cutting the board so that the face of the unfinished cut was perpendicular to the blade? Or simply removing the tongue, as if the finished side was perpendicular to the blade?

[patrob]

patrob, thanks for the instructions on making a threshold.

I have a question about the tongue removal. Would you be cutting the board so that the face of the unfinished cut was perpendicular to the blade? Or simply removing the tongue, as if the finished side was perpendicular to the blade?

Not sure what you mean by perpendicular to the blade... Are you talking about the threshold or cutting off the tongue on the side :confused:

Threshold:
When you cut the bottom at the angle, that changes your 90 angle on the side. You have to make a new 90 from the bottom to the side. So when you place your board unfinished side down, tongue side to be cut off (parallel to the blade) you can see right away that your angle is off by couple degrees.

[outlier]

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to lend your expertise...

Was thinking of getting some engineered from bellefloor http://www.bellefloor.com

Do you have any experience/knowledge about this brand/company?

TIA

[lapse]

Threshold:
When you cut the bottom at the angle, that changes your 90 angle on the side. You have to make a new 90 from the bottom to the side. So when you place your board unfinished side down, tongue side to be cut off (parallel to the blade) you can see right away that your angle is off by couple degrees.

Ok making a new 90 perfectly answers my question. Thanks!

[patrob]

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to lend your expertise...

Was thinking of getting some engineered from bellefloor http://www.bellefloor.com

Do you have any experience/knowledge about this brand/company?

TIA

Seen their logo before but never had the chance to install it, so can't really comment.

[jimgiggles]

Great Thread! I've been looking at a couple places and have seen the "Continental" Brand hardwood made in Germany. Anyone have any opinions on this stuff? I found some for roughly $3.89/sq.ft.

Also, any opinions on the gunstock oak at costco for about $3.50 sq/ft.

I am leaning towards the german stuff because the milling is apparently top notch, and making a lot of installers come back for more.

Anyone have any opinions on either?

Thanks

[Van G]

Great Thread! I've been looking at a couple places and have seen the "Continental" Brand hardwood made in Germany. Anyone have any opinions on this stuff? I found some for roughly $3.89/sq.ft.

What are the spec's on the above mentioned flooring? species, width, thickness, grade

[jimgiggles]

Sorry, 3/4" thick tongue and groove, and its 'oak'. Other than that, very comparable to St. Lawrence, and comes in select grade or better... and i looked in a box, shortest i saw was a little over a foot. I know the brampton hardwood has this brand going for $4.29 sq./ft.

I will get more details later

[patrob]

Great Thread! I've been looking at a couple places and have seen the "Continental" Brand hardwood made in Germany. Anyone have any opinions on this stuff? I found some for roughly $3.89/sq.ft.

Also, any opinions on the gunstock oak at costco for about $3.50 sq/ft.

I am leaning towards the german stuff because the milling is apparently top notch, and making a lot of installers come back for more.

Anyone have any opinions on either?

Thanks

Sorry, 3/4" thick tongue and groove, and its 'oak'. Other than that, very comparable to St. Lawrence, and comes in select grade or better... and i looked in a box, shortest i saw was a little over a foot. I know the brampton hardwood has this brand going for $4.29 sq./ft.

I will get more details later

Just because St. Lawrence is advertising on AM 680 doesn't mean it's good. Neither is Continental & just because it's made in Germany doesn't mean it's a BMW or Mercedes of hardwood:D Stick with North American hardwood. I think I would rather have St. Lawrence, Mercier or Bruce. If it's such a great product why are they selling it for so cheap... :rolleyes:

What square footage are you looking at? Is it going to save you more than $1,000? If not why take a chance :| $.50 cents shouldn't break your bank ;)

Regarding the Costco "hardwood" it's crap. They used to sell it for $2.99 sq. ft. If you have more than 3 ft. openings, it's hard to find a board in that size, all shorts & the finish is crap.

The only good thing about these products is the price.

[Dster]

So I'm moving into an old (115 yrs.) Victorian house.

The main floor has old birch with very long boards. It is in desperate need of a refinish.

Originally I was going to go with a natural finish, and match it upstairs with new birch.

I spoke to a decorator, and she suggested I go with a stain, maybe something mocha -- a brown, but on the green side instead of the red side of brown, and to match the upstairs and downstairs (she was quite adamant about matching).

If I do that, is it important to stick with birch upstairs? Or does matching the colour matter, but not the species?

Any recommendations on products? I guess I have to pick my prefinished first, and then match the stain.

[patrob]

So I'm moving into an old (115 yrs.) Victorian house.

The main floor has old birch with very long boards. It is in desperate need of a refinish.

Originally I was going to go with a natural finish, and match it upstairs with new birch.

I spoke to a decorator, and she suggested I go with a stain, maybe something mocha -- a brown, but on the green side instead of the red side of brown, and to match the upstairs and downstairs (she was quite adamant about matching).

If I do that, is it important to stick with birch upstairs? Or does matching the colour matter, but not the species?

Any recommendations on products? I guess I have to pick my prefinished first, and then match the stain.

If you're going to re-sand your floors on the main floor, did you think about installing unfinished on the 2nd floor, sanding & staining at the same time with the same colour? Would be a perfect match. If you are looking for pre-finished, birch is slightly cheaper than oak or maple, so why not install birch.

[Dster]

If you're going to re-sand your floors on the main floor, did you think about installing unfinished on the 2nd floor, sanding & staining at the same time with the same colour? Would be a perfect match. If you are looking for pre-finished, birch is slightly cheaper than oak or maple, so why not install birch.

I did think about it, but wouldn't that require much higher cost for both materials and labour?

EDIT: I searched this thread and found your answer here: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6403371&highlight=unfinished#post6403371

sorry for the trouble!

[patrob]

I did think about it, but wouldn't that require much higher cost for both materials and labour?

I guess now it will come down to the price. Price for un-finished should be the same or slightly lower than pre-finished. But at least you will have the same look throughout. So it's really up to you...

No trouble :D

[mavvee]

Hi Patrob, have you heard anything about exotic woods at Giant Carpet? They sell Cumaru and Jatoba under the Sequoia name. Just wonder if they have good wood?

[Dster]

Any opinions out there on Quickstyle hardwood? I'm looking at a stained birch for 4.25/sq. ft.

Also, is $3.50/sq. ft. for unfinished birch a reasonable price?

EDIT: another brand I was just told about is Preverco. Didn't see it in the thread anywhere. Any thoughts?

EDIT2: I found Mercier for the same price as the Quickstyle. There were some positive comments earlier in this thread, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob, have you heard anything about exotic woods at Giant Carpet? They sell Cumaru and Jatoba under the Sequoia name. Just wonder if they have good wood?

Never dealt with Giant Carpet before & not familiar with Sequoia.

Cumaru is one of the hardest species, 3540 hardness on Janka Scale & Jatoba is 2350. Very similar in look but expect to pay more for installation because of its hardness.

[patrob]

Any opinions out there on Quickstyle hardwood? I'm looking at a stained birch for 4.25/sq. ft.

Also, is $3.50/sq. ft. for unfinished birch a reasonable price?

EDIT: another brand I was just told about is Preverco. Didn't see it in the thread anywhere. Any thoughts?

EDIT2: I found Mercier for the same price as the Quickstyle. There were some positive comments earlier in this thread, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

Have heard from some people that Quickstyle is ok, price seems good & if you will be paying $3.50 sq. ft. for unfinished birch, might as well do pre-finished then.

Preverco is ok but if you ever need support from customer service, I hope you can speak French :D

All 3 manufacturers are comparable so it really comes down to what colour & finish you prefer & obviously the price.

[mavvee]

Patrob, have you heard of a company called Muskoka? Are they any good?

[patrob]

Patrob, have you heard of a company called Muskoka? Are they any good?

It's 2nd grade wood vs. Vintage or Mirage. So if you are looking for something cheaper & don't want to pay for 1st grade, Muskoka is just fine.

[adre77]

Great thread Patrob! thanks for all the valuable info. Have two questions:
1. Have you heard of Armstrong or Bruce hardwood floors?
2. They are offering me a 5/16" thick oak floor (claiming is way, way better than the standard 3/4") How good is the 5/16" vs the standard thickness?

thanks again!!

[Ebtek]

Great thread!

If anyone's interested I can get good prices directly from Vintage Flooring, and I can refer an installer. He did my house and I can provide pics

let me know what you're interested in and I'll get you a price.

[sillysimms]

Thanks for this great. A great service.

I know this is the "official hardwood" thread but I have a question about underlay. It could be used for hardwood or laminate (even though we're doing laminate) so hopefully you can advise.:)

We're installing 15mm laminate over concrete in our condo. We need a 60IIC rating for our condo and want good quality as we plan to live there for some time. The sales rep. didn't seem to be very knowledgeable about the underlay and has given us a sample for the weekend. However, it seems to be specifically a carpet underlay although he told us it is okay for laminate and the cost is 75 cents a square foot. I'm not sure if this is the right one to use as the rep. doesn't know what the IIC rating is but says "it's high enough" and he also isn't sure if there is a vapour barrier included or if we need another one.

Our condo has sent us a memo that one that they approve is called Regupol-QT 4005 Sound Control Underlay. Just wondering if you heard of this or if there is another underlay you'd recommend for installation over concrete where sound control is required?

[synaptech]

One word or caution - if your house was built with balloon framing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon_framing , http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/224.shtml ) then those floor boards are actually part of the structural integrity of the home and I have been told that they should not be sanded... hopefully this does not apply to you, but if it does, I think you'd want to know before they start caving in :)



So I'm moving into an old (115 yrs.) Victorian house.

The main floor has old birch with very long boards. It is in desperate need of a refinish.

Originally I was going to go with a natural finish, and match it upstairs with new birch.

I spoke to a decorator, and she suggested I go with a stain, maybe something mocha -- a brown, but on the green side instead of the red side of brown, and to match the upstairs and downstairs (she was quite adamant about matching).

If I do that, is it important to stick with birch upstairs? Or does matching the colour matter, but not the species?

Any recommendations on products? I guess I have to pick my prefinished first, and then match the stain.

[patrob]

Great thread Patrob! thanks for all the valuable info. Have two questions:
1. Have you heard of Armstrong or Bruce hardwood floors?
2. They are offering me a 5/16" thick oak floor (claiming is way, way better than the standard 3/4") How good is the 5/16" vs the standard thickness?

thanks again!!

"They" just want to obviously sell you that product because nobody wants to buy it & their stock must be overloaded. You can barely refinish these floors if installed properly. It's ok for condo applications but I recommend 3/4" !

It's almost triple the thickness, so I would question their motive to tell you that it's better than 3/4":rolleyes: I assume they are referring to the "Reflection" series...

[patrob]

Thanks for this great. A great service.

I know this is the "official hardwood" thread but I have a question about underlay. It could be used for hardwood or laminate (even though we're doing laminate) so hopefully you can advise.:)

We're installing 15mm laminate over concrete in our condo. We need a 60IIC rating for our condo and want good quality as we plan to live there for some time. The sales rep. didn't seem to be very knowledgeable about the underlay and has given us a sample for the weekend. However, it seems to be specifically a carpet underlay although he told us it is okay for laminate and the cost is 75 cents a square foot. I'm not sure if this is the right one to use as the rep. doesn't know what the IIC rating is but says "it's high enough" and he also isn't sure if there is a vapour barrier included or if we need another one.

Our condo has sent us a memo that one that they approve is called Regupol-QT 4005 Sound Control Underlay. Just wondering if you heard of this or if there is another underlay you'd recommend for installation over concrete where sound control is required?
Carpet underlay is for carpet only, so whatever the sales guy is telling you is not correct.

The one that your condo recommends is way more than $.75 sq. ft. & is very good. But check with the flooring manufacturer if they approve that particular underlay for their product. 100 sq. ft. roll weights about 120 lbs., it's made out of recycled rubber, great for sound proofing but it has a rubbery smell at the beginning. By any chance, are you in the area of Hurontario, south of Burnamthorpe :lol: I know many condos there require that particular underlay ;)

[sillysimms]

Thank you for the advice. I guess I will look into getting the underlay the building recommends after making sure it is approved by the manufacturer.

And you know your buildings...you got it right! Thanks.

[patrob]

Thank you for the advice. I guess I will look into getting the underlay the building recommends after making sure it is approved by the manufacturer.

And you know your buildings...you got it right! Thanks.

;)

[Dster]

One word or caution - if your house was built with balloon framing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(construction)#Balloon_framing , http://www.oldhouseweb.com/stories/Detailed/224.shtml ) then those floor boards are actually part of the structural integrity of the home and I have been told that they should not be sanded... hopefully this does not apply to you, but if it does, I think you'd want to know before they start caving in :)

I've read the links you mentioned. I don't claim to understand everything there, but I didn't see any mention of the overlay having any structural significance.

In fact, I didn't even see any mention that the subfloor couldn't be altered. Is it that the joists are especially sensitive?

In any case, the house has been thoroughly inspected and is structurally sound. Thanks for your concern, though.

[patrob]

I've read the links you mentioned. I don't claim to understand everything there, but I didn't see any mention of the overlay having any structural significance.

In fact, I didn't even see any mention that the subfloor couldn't be altered. Is it that the joists are especially sensitive?

In any case, the house has been thoroughly inspected and is structurally sound. Thanks for your concern, though.

What I think synaptech means is that your birch floor could be the actual sub-floor, especially at that age of the house. So it also means when you sand your floor (sub-floor) you make it thinner, so you weaken its integrity. You have to check with a reputable flooring contractor to find out what you have & what you can do with it.

[synaptech]

sorry, yes I should have been more specific. We were considering finishing the subfloor in one room when I found out about the issue. When you described the boards it sounded as if they may be the original sub.

[quanta]

Hey, great thread going on here! You should run a podcast! :)

I have a different situation from most - I'm a new owner of a pre-owned, very new condo with finished high-gloss oak floors. Despite being new, there are already a few minute problems that are revealing themselves.

- some 1/2" gouges in the floors (once we dropped an iron, which naturally landed on its edge and right where three boards intersected...)
- one transition piece is splintering
- some scuffs in the finish, due to previous owner not using floorsavers on their table legs
- some boards creak. Pouring some talcum powder doesn't seem to work. (I suspect this will cost too much to fix properly though)

We tried fixing the gouges with some storebought goop from Rona but it just looked plain terrible so we're looking at getting a pro to take a look.

Can you or anyone you know would be able to repair this? I'm the west Toronto area.

[patrob]

Hey, great thread going on here! You should run a podcast! :)

I have a different situation from most - I'm a new owner of a pre-owned, very new condo with finished high-gloss oak floors. Despite being new, there are already a few minute problems that are revealing themselves.

- some 1/2" gouges in the floors (once we dropped an iron, which naturally landed on its edge and right where three boards intersected...)
- one transition piece is splintering
- some scuffs in the finish, due to previous owner not using floorsavers on their table legs
- some boards creak. Pouring some talcum powder doesn't seem to work. (I suspect this will cost too much to fix properly though)

We tried fixing the gouges with some storebought goop from Rona but it just looked plain terrible so we're looking at getting a pro to take a look.

Can you or anyone you know would be able to repair this? I'm the west Toronto area.

Is the gauge 1/2" deep? If yes - wow. Those boards might have to be replaced. Transition also has to be replaced. The scuff marks in the finish, this is the beauty of high gloss finish. If you don't want to re-finish, I recommend a nice area rug :lol: and the talcum powder, dishwasher soap, etc...doesn't really work. You have to see what really causes the squeak, there are ways to fix it but more info would be needed (pics of the area with exact markings where the squeak is). Is the floor floating or glue down?

Do you know if the floors were done by the previous owners or the builder? Do you know what kind of floors those are?

[gsrce]

Do you know if it's possible to install in floor heating under hardwood floors in an apartment? If so, do you know what the average price range is for someone experienced? (just for the install of the heating, not the floor)

[patrob]

Do you know if it's possible to install in floor heating under hardwood floors in an apartment? If so, do you know what the average price range is for someone experienced? (just for the install of the heating, not the floor)

Yes you can but only with engineered hardwood floors. You have to speak to an electrician for installation of the heating pad & he will advise you on the costs associated with it.

[gsrce]

Yes you can but only with engineered hardwood floors. You have to speak to an electrician for installation of the heating pad & he will advise you on the costs associated with it.

What sort of electrician should I be looking for? Someone who specializes in installing it?

[patrob]

What sort of electrician should I be looking for? Someone who specializes in installing it?

I guess a general electrical contractor. If you don't know anybody, then perhaps Yellow Pages might help or just Google. Call around & ask if they specialize in installation of in-floor heating.

Since you're in Ottawa, try this company http://canada.contractors.com/profile/5326424

[Van G]

You'll need to use engineered flooring since solid hardwood will not do well with electrical radiant system.

You don't need an electrician to install radiant floor, but if you are talking about a large area it will be very expensive for electrical system (mats).

How big an area? Is it a basement application?

[bluespecv]

The pros install it with the joist.

Your floor is supposed to be installed across the joist.

I'm trying to figure out how I'm suppose to layout my Jatoba floors but I'm confused with the above comments. Does it go with the joist or across them?

Also, I've read on your previous post that I shouldn't use staples on the Jatoba flooring. Prone to cracking etc. I bought a flooring Stapler from Canadian Tire thinking I'd save from the cost of renting a Nailer from Home Depot but I can't seem to find a Flooring NAILER for <200. Is there any place that you know of? We have about 750 sq ft to do and I'm a slow worker.

Thanks a lot of for your thread again.

[Techhead]

Patrob,
I'm slowly working my way through my home. I have made it to my hallway now and need some advice.

In the attached picture, I have a threshold at one end from a floor I installed two years ago. At the other end is my bathroom, there will be about 6 floor boards that will meet both thresholds.

How should I complete the end by the bathroom? Shood I even use a threshold piece there? or just cut the ends and add a transition peice?

Take note that the bathroom floor is currently linolium and will be replaced next year by a tile of some sort. (undecided)

I have put a plywood sub-floor down sin ce this shot.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2448199245_11374f9900_b.jpg

[Tbsguy]

Have a question about replacing boards. If you have a damaged board that needs to be replaced, I've read that it can be done. Looks like you use a skill saw to cut the old board so you can get it out without damaging the boards around it. Then you cut the bottom edge off the grooved side and lay the new board in place. Is this how you do it ? Then how do you secure the new board ?

Thanks

[patrob]

You don't need an electrician to install radiant floor, but if you are talking about a large area it will be very expensive for electrical system (mats).

How big an area? Is it a basement application?

Officially for anything that's not plug-in, you need an electrician. BTW, it's a condo/apartment so the area will be a bit larger than just a bathroom. You can lay out everything yourself but have the electrician check it over so that everything is done up to code.

[patrob]

I'm trying to figure out how I'm suppose to layout my Jatoba floors but I'm confused with the above comments. Does it go with the joist or across them?

Also, I've read on your previous post that I shouldn't use staples on the Jatoba flooring. Prone to cracking etc. I bought a flooring Stapler from Canadian Tire thinking I'd save from the cost of renting a Nailer from Home Depot but I can't seem to find a Flooring NAILER for <200. Is there any place that you know of? We have about 750 sq ft to do and I'm a slow worker.

Thanks a lot of for your thread again.

Every situation is different. You cannot split directions in the middle of the hallway or room & I was referring to a his particular case.

If you have a narrow long hallway with L shape & joists are running parallel with the nosing, sometimes you have to go with the joist to make it look better. But by the book & for warranty purposes, everything should be installed across the joists.

These days many builders split joist directions where ever they like, sometimes in hallways, bedrooms, main rooms, etc...so you are not going to split the direction of the wood to go across the joist. So you always go with higher majority to cross the joists. But every situation is different :idea:

There are some 2 in 1 flooring stapler/nailer for less than $300, just call around all tool stores.

[patrob]

Patrob,
I'm slowly working my way through my home. I have made it to my hallway now and need some advice.

In the attached picture, I have a threshold at one end from a floor I installed two years ago. At the other end is my bathroom, there will be about 6 floor boards that will meet both thresholds.

How should I complete the end by the bathroom? Shood I even use a threshold piece there? or just cut the ends and add a transition peice?

Take note that the bathroom floor is currently linolium and will be replaced next year by a tile of some sort. (undecided)
Always install thresholds in doorways/archways between diff. floors. It's a lot easier in case of repairs or damage.

With the threshold, when you are butting your floor to it, it's a lot easier to keep the proper height. At the bathroom, finish with a full height board but until you install tiles, add an extra piece at the edge of it like a quarter round, so you don't chip the edge.

[patrob]

Have a question about replacing boards. If you have a damaged board that needs to be replaced, I've read that it can be done. Looks like you use a skill saw to cut the old board so you can get it out without damaging the boards around it. Then you cut the bottom edge off the grooved side and lay the new board in place. Is this how you do it ? Then how do you secure the new board ?

Thanks

Yes, that's how you do it & use PL to secure.

Tip: Make your cut at the nail side, about 3/8" to 1/2" from the edge, so you cut the nails at the same time.
Make your next cut parallel at the other side, 2 more cuts in the middle, slightly at the angle to cut the middle in 3.
Obviously the skill saw will not cut to the end, so hit the uncut edges with a chisel, that should split the board
& you can easily pull out the inside out & you know the rest ;)

[Tbsguy]

Sorry, but what is PL ? No nails right ...

Thanks

[patrob]

Sorry, but what is PL ? No nails right ...

Thanks

No nails
http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/f86dc244-a0fb-4262-a6a6-ef83dbbe5dea_4.jpg

[Tbsguy]

Great ...thanks. Just to be clear do you use this on both the grove and tongue joints, ends and bottom ?

Thanks

[patrob]

Great ...thanks. Just to be clear do you use this on both the grove and tongue joints, ends and bottom ?

Thanks

Don't glue it to the boards, apply glue to the sub-floor otherwise you will be in big trouble if you have to replace the board beside in the future.

[Techhead]

Always install thresholds in doorways/archways between diff. floors. It's a lot easier in case of repairs or damage.

With the threshold, when you are butting your floor to it, it's a lot easier to keep the proper height. At the bathroom, finish with a full height board but until you install tiles, add an extra piece at the edge of it like a quarter round, so you don't chip the edge.

ThanX, patrob..
So, should I add a threshold peice or just cut each row where I want it to meet the future bathroom tile?

[patrob]

ThanX, patrob..
So, should I add a threshold peice or just cut each row where I want it to meet the future bathroom tile?

Yes, add a threshold.

[adre77]

"They" just want to obviously sell you that product because nobody wants to buy it & their stock must be overloaded. You can barely refinish these floors if installed properly. It's ok for condo applications but I recommend 3/4" !

It's almost triple the thickness, so I would question their motive to tell you that it's better than 3/4":rolleyes: I assume they are referring to the "Reflection" series...
That's what we thought too... we're going with the 3/4", and when we told the guy, he wasn't too happy. Oh well!

Have you heard anything good/bad about Armstrong or Bruce hardwood flooring?

[patrob]

That's what we thought too... we're going with the 3/4", and when we told the guy, he wasn't too happy. Oh well!

Have you heard anything good/bad about Armstrong or Bruce hardwood flooring?

Bruce/Armstrong is one company & their products are ok in quality, as long as you don't pay more than $5.xx sq. ft., you're fine. Their finish tends to be more glossy, even if it's called semi-gloss.

[Tbsguy]

PL Premium

Is this the PL Premium you suggested ? Couldn't find one at the store to match the picture.

http://http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=22&subid=108&plid=284 (http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=22&subid=108&plid=284)


Thanks

[patrob]

PL Premium

Is this the PL Premium you suggested ? Couldn't find one at the store to match the picture.
http://http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=22&subid=108&plid=284 (http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=22&subid=108&plid=284)

Yes, that's the one.

[Techhead]

patrob,
now that 1/3 of of my floor is installed. The Warden is bugging me on how to clean it:!:

I know your not aspose to use a wet mop. So how do you clean a hardwood floor?

A Swifter Sweeper is ok for the dust but man the residue left behind can make ya break leg. :-0

[quanta]

Is the gauge 1/2" deep? If yes - wow. Those boards might have to be replaced. Transition also has to be replaced. The scuff

The gouge is shallow (less than 1/4") but it's wide (1/2"). Thankfully the iron landed on one of its back corners rather than the pointy front. There are a couple other shallow gouges that run along some boards, most likely caused by wear and tear. Can it just be filled in with some goop? If so, how to match the colour and not make it look like Bondo?

marks in the finish, this is the beauty of high gloss finish. If you don't want to re-finish, I recommend a nice area rug :lol: and the talcum powder, dishwasher soap, etc...doesn't really work. You have to see what really causes the squeak, there are ways to fix it but more info would be needed (pics of the area with exact markings where the squeak is). Is the floor floating or glue down?

I don't mind refinishing, but it's such a small spot (maybe the size of my palm? Visualize the marks a table leg rubbing it would cause) I'm curious if it's worth it.

As for the squeaks, ugh, it's probably not worth dealing with. Unfortunately I know very little about how the floor was built, since we are the 2nd owners.

Do you know if the floors were done by the previous owners or the builder? Do you know what kind of floors those are?

The floors were done by the builder. All I know is that it's oak, with a high-gloss reddish finish. They're about 4 years old.

[scugog rooky]

Hi: Just looking for some advice on refinishing a 20 yr old Bruce prefinished floor.
We had it refinished professionally for the first time about 20 yrs ago.
They sanded, restained and urethaned it and now it needs some attention agin in the heavy traffic areas.
We are thinking about doing it ourselves.
Do we need to power sand the whole thing or light sanding is good enough. What product would you recomend to reseal?
Thanks

[patrob]

patrob,
now that 1/3 of of my floor is installed. The Warden is bugging me on how to clean it:!:

I know your not aspose to use a wet mop. So how do you clean a hardwood floor?

A Swifter Sweeper is ok for the dust but man the residue left behind can make ya break leg. :-0

The Warden :lol:

Any hardwood flooring store will carry a professional cleaning kit for hardwood floors with a spray solution. They work very well & you just spray it on the cloth, not on the floor. Or you can just use a damp cloth (plain water) but not soaking wet & that will also work.

[furrgy]

Hi - great thread!

I'm looking at replacing the carpet in my condo - aprox 500 sq ft worth. I have two cats who are not declawed, so i think durability is key. I like the look of beveled planks in a dark finish and really like the look & feel of hardwood. So the frequent dillema of laminate vs engineered has come up.

What are your thoughts? Keeping in mind that the long term use of the condo will likely be to rent out in the next couple of years. I beleive my condo requires 6mm cork or its equivalent in sound proofing.

I'm considering doing the install on my own; but would still be interested in getting some recommendations on installers and locations to purchase the flooring.

Looking forward to your response!

[cyoung1]

Any thoughts on width of hardwood? I assumed we would get 3.25, which is pretty much the standard these days. My husband thinks we should get 4.25. We have an old house, slightly wonky walls - piecing will be required along the wall no doubt. Newly opened into open concept with a bit of wall down the centre line. About 650 sq feet overall. We're doing a medium stained oak in a 60% gloss. Will the wider plank make the wonky walls more noticeable? Less? Make the room look bigger? Smaller? How much difference would there be between the 3.25 and 4.25 for these factors? Or for imperfections in the subfloor. Its 3/4 inch plank topped by 3/8 plywood glued and screwed, by the way.

[patrob]

The gouge is shallow (less than 1/4") but it's wide (1/2"). Thankfully the iron landed on one of its back corners rather than the pointy front. There are a couple other shallow gouges that run along some boards, most likely caused by wear and tear. Can it just be filled in with some goop? If so, how to match the colour and not make it look like Bondo?

I don't mind refinishing, but it's such a small spot (maybe the size of my palm? Visualize the marks a table leg rubbing it would cause) I'm curious if it's worth it.

You can try to use a wax stick in the colour of your floor which you can pick up in flooring stores, HD, Rona... But first try to take out or scratch up the finish in the damaged spot so the wax will have something to stick to. It will never look the same but better than having a hole. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=106

As for "re-finishing" there is a product that I never personally used but heard that it might work in small areas. It's like a liquid paste & you can buy it from flooring stores. Mohawk makes a variety of these touch-up kits, so if you go the a flooring store, they will advise you which one to get.

[patrob]

Hi: Just looking for some advice on refinishing a 20 yr old Bruce prefinished floor.
We had it refinished professionally for the first time about 20 yrs ago.
They sanded, restained and urethaned it and now it needs some attention agin in the heavy traffic areas.
We are thinking about doing it ourselves.
Do we need to power sand the whole thing or light sanding is good enough. What product would you recomend to reseal?
Thanks

Have you done this sort of work before? It's easy to get hurt if you don't know how to operate a sander!

Re-finishing is not that expensive, they will do it a lot faster & better. Rental for those machines is expensive & they are hard to operate. You probably have to go to bare wood to get the job done right.

[patrob]

Hi - great thread!

I'm looking at replacing the carpet in my condo - aprox 500 sq ft worth. I have two cats who are not declawed, so i think durability is key. I like the look of beveled planks in a dark finish and really like the look & feel of hardwood. So the frequent dillema of laminate vs engineered has come up.

What are your thoughts? Keeping in mind that the long term use of the condo will likely be to rent out in the next couple of years. I beleive my condo requires 6mm cork or its equivalent in sound proofing.

I'm considering doing the install on my own; but would still be interested in getting some recommendations on installers and locations to purchase the flooring.

Looking forward to your response!

There are some laminates that have a very realistic hardwood look with 4 beveled sides & are very durable, so in your situation if you plan to rent out the condo, this might be the best solution. http://torlys.com/Laminate/LaminateCollection/tabid/425/language/en-US/default.aspx

[patrob]

Any thoughts on width of hardwood? I assumed we would get 3.25, which is pretty much the standard these days. My husband thinks we should get 4.25. We have an old house, slightly wonky walls - piecing will be required along the wall no doubt. Newly opened into open concept with a bit of wall down the centre line. About 650 sq feet overall. We're doing a medium stained oak in a 60% gloss. Will the wider plank make the wonky walls more noticeable? Less? Make the room look bigger? Smaller? How much difference would there be between the 3.25 and 4.25 for these factors? Or for imperfections in the subfloor. Its 3/4 inch plank topped by 3/8 plywood glued and screwed, by the way.

3 1/4" is the most common & the most stable for its size. The wider you go, the more capping & shrinkage will be visible if RH is unstable. A lot of people have a perception that in a small room you should use narrow planks like 2 1/4" but that is not true. Wider planks even in small areas make the room less busy which gives you the appearance of a more open space :idea:
Wider planks show more imperfections in your sub-floor, so it better be dead on.

Have you thought about engineered wood? Which is a lot more stable for a wide plank.

[jimgiggles]

Anyone know anything about Exoticorp hardwood? I was at an auction this weekend, and saw some really nice Brown Merbau going for about $3.00/sq.ft.
3/4" thick X 3-1/2" wide. Lengths seemed to be decent as well..

I did a google search and had come up with really nothing, only thing that confuses me is that the box at the bottom has 'Exotic Kempas' written on it.. It actually looked actually like this box, but was labelled Brown Merbau.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/4313170&category=bricks-lumber-paint

So.. my question, is that kempas or Brazilian Walnut?

[patrob]

Anyone know anything about Exoticorp hardwood? I was at an auction this weekend, and saw some really nice Brown Merbau going for about $3.00/sq.ft.
3/4" thick X 3-1/2" wide. Lengths seemed to be decent as well..

I did a google search and had come up with really nothing, only thing that confuses me is that the box at the bottom has 'Exotic Kempas' written on it.. It actually looked actually like this box, but was labelled Brown Merbau.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/4313170&category=bricks-lumber-paint

So.. my question, is that kempas or Brazilian Walnut?

If you found nothing about the product, that should answer your question :idea: There are 'millions' of manufacturer & more coming out everyday, nobody can keep up with names & what comes from where.

Also Kempas is not Brazilian Walnut. There is a lot of stuff from Asia that they call it Brazilian Walnut but it's not even close. Brazilian Walnut is not orange or red in colour, it's a darker brown. Also buying hardwood from auctions is what you see is what you get. Don't expect a quality product and there is no history on this product, where it came from, how it came, where was it stored and what kind of finish was really used...

[jimgiggles]

If you found nothing about the product, that should answer your question :idea: There are 'millions' of manufacturer & more coming out everyday, nobody can keep up with names & what comes from where.

Also Kempas is not Brazilian Walnut. There is a lot of stuff from Asia that they call it Brazilian Walnut but it's not even close. Brazilian Walnut is not orange or red in colour, it's a darker brown. Also buying hardwood from auctions is what you see is what you get. Don't expect a quality product and there is no history on this product, where it came from, how it came, where was it stored and what kind of finish was really used...

Ok, that is great point, but from what i saw out of the box, pieces were very long, quality looked fantastic, and i think it went for about $3.00/sq.ft. I have googled, and can't seem find anything about the product, what i was originally asking was, is that product kempas, or what is listed in bold on the box?

From what i have heard, and read, kempas is also a very good exotic wood that is very dense, good for high traffic areas.

[patrob]

Ok, that is great point, but from what i saw out of the box, pieces were very long, quality looked fantastic, and i think it went for about $3.00/sq.ft. I have googled, and can't seem find anything about the product, what i was originally asking was, is that product kempas, or what is listed in bold on the box?

From what i have heard, and read, kempas is also a very good exotic wood that is very dense, good for high traffic areas.

My point was, if they say it's Kempas or Brazilian Walnut, who knows what it is or whatever else it might be :| Looks can be very deceiving.
You get what you see, so if you like the planks & the colour, whatever it may be, that's what you buy. Just because they label it, doesn't mean it is what it says. Many times at auctions they sell products that were repossessed from illegal import, unpaid fees, improper labeling, etc... Pretty much you are taking a chance if you buy from auctions. There must be a reason they sell it for only $3 sq. ft. :rolleyes:

[secret-_-angel]

i'm looking to change the carpet in our combine living/dining + master bedroom. Since I'm not sure about sq measurement, here are the measurement in feet

12.37 x 10.20 Living Room
12.37 x 9.12 Dining Room
19.06 x 11.42 Master Bedroom


How much will it cost to match this hardwood?
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6694/testuu3.jpg

I saw quiet abit of clip on flooring. ex: Costco. Are those real hardwood or laminate?
If there is such thing as clip on hardwood, i suppose I can do them myself to save money on labour?

Your feedback is appreciated

[patrob]

i'm looking to change the carpet in our combine living/dining + master bedroom. Since I'm not sure about sq measurement, here are the measurement in feet

12.37 x 10.20 Living Room
12.37 x 9.12 Dining Room
19.06 x 11.42 Master Bedroom

How much will it cost to match this hardwood?
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6694/testuu3.jpg

I saw quiet abit of clip on flooring. ex: Costco. Are those real hardwood or laminate?
If there is such thing as clip on hardwood, i suppose I can do them myself to save money on labour?

Your feedback is appreciated

You need 480 sq. ft. including 5% for waste. It's hard to tell from that pic, assuming it's stained oak. The Costco stuff is laminate IIRC. There is some engineered real hardwood click but not very popular & not cheap. If you want to match to your existing hardwood, go to few flooring stores & take a look at samples, perhaps take some home & see if the colours match & go from there.

[patrob]

Hot deal if anyone is looking for a 2" Air Flooring Cleat Nailer :!:
On sale at Princess Auto for only $144.44 - 5 day sale only to May 10!!!

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585462
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5415/princessautonailerjs6.jpg

[G-Unit!!]

Hi Patrob,

As everyone already mentioned, great thread!!

Here's my situation: I recently bought a house and I’m looking to replace the BLUE carpet in the 2 bedrooms with engineered hardwood with styles/colour similar to the rest of the house. I don’t imagine the colour to be difficult to find b/c it’s the natural colour you see everywhere. The bedrooms are around 450-500 sq. feet combined.

Q1) Where would you go to buy decent quality flooring for a cheap price (everyone’s dream)? I think from you earlier post, you had suggested: http://www.bramptonhardwood.com/, www.Darmaga.com or http://www.stansflooring.com/content/index.php. and the brands you’d recommend are Mirage and Vintage. Are these still your choices, would you recommend anywhere else? My friend suggested Yorkdale Flooring (near yorkdale mall). I plan to stay in this house for the long term, so this investment is purely for my enjoyment, that’s why I do not want to overspend for this.

Q2) I plan to install this myself with a buddy who’s done his house a couple of months back. He put in the underpadding and left his engineered hardwood floating. Is that okay for the bedroom in your opinion? He explained that floating takes much less time.

Q3) Is my decision right in using engineered? I based my decision on price, looks (don't like the look/feel of laminate) and ease of install.

THanks very much.
G

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

As everyone already mentioned, great thread!!

Here's my situation: I recently bought a house and I’m looking to replace the BLUE carpet in the 2 bedrooms with engineered hardwood with styles/colour similar to the rest of the house. I don’t imagine the colour to be difficult to find b/c it’s the natural colour you see everywhere. The bedrooms are around 450-500 sq. feet combined.

Q1) Where would you go to buy decent quality flooring for a cheap price (everyone’s dream)? I think from you earlier post, you had suggested: http://www.bramptonhardwood.com/, www.Darmaga.com or http://www.stansflooring.com/content/index.php. and the brands you’d recommend are Mirage and Vintage. Are these still your choices, would you recommend anywhere else? My friend suggested Yorkdale Flooring (near yorkdale mall). I plan to stay in this house for the long term, so this investment is purely for my enjoyment, that’s why I do not want to overspend for this.

Q2) I plan to install this myself with a buddy who’s done his house a couple of months back. He put in the underpadding and left his engineered hardwood floating. Is that okay for the bedroom in your opinion? He explained that floating takes much less time.

Q3) Is my decision right in using engineered? I based my decision on price, looks (don't like the look/feel of laminate) and ease of install.

THanks very much.

First, you cannot compare Darmaga & Stan's to Brampton Flooring. B-F sells lower grade products, where as the other two sell Vintage, Mirage & other equivalent grades.
Vintage/Mirage is still my 1st choice.

But why do you want to float engineered on a wooden sub-floor:?: It takes little more effort to nail it but it's more solid & does not give you that bounce & deaf sound. If you go cheap, by the time you are ready to sell, you might have to replace your floors, so I think it's better to spend a little more & have less headache later.

Also engineered is slightly more expensive than solid hardwood. And it's not that simple to install floating, you don't have a solid starting line. Also engineered is not the same as laminate click, which always clicks to keep the line straight. With eng. you have to glue the tongue & groove & if you push too hard, your line will open.

[G-Unit!!]

First, you cannot compare Darmaga & Stan's to Brampton Flooring. B-F sells lower grade products, where as the other two sell Vintage, Mirage & other equivalent grades.
Vintage/Mirage is still my 1st choice.

But why do you want to float engineered on a wooden sub-floor:?: It takes little more effort to nail it but it's more solid & does not give you that bounce & deaf sound. If you go cheap, by the time you are ready to sell, you might have to replace your floors, so I think it's better to spend a little more & have less headache later.

Also engineered is slightly more expensive than solid hardwood. And it's not that simple to install floating, you don't have a solid starting line. Also engineered is not the same as laminate click, which always clicks to keep the line straight. With eng. you have to glue the tongue & groove & if you push too hard, your line will open.

The reason I'm going cheap is b/c I don't plan to sell it .... I have a unique situation, I plan to build a new one 5-10 years down the road, so there's no investment value to the hardwood improvement other than for my own enjoyment. When my buddy was doing his, the engineered hardwood was relatively easy to assemble and not nailing/gluing required (and yes, it's floating). It seems okay when I'm walking on it now, but from your expert opinion, will that be a problem later down the road?
thx

[patrob]

The reason I'm going cheap is b/c I don't plan to sell it .... I have a unique situation, I plan to build a new one 5-10 years down the road, so there's no investment value to the hardwood improvement other than for my own enjoyment. When my buddy was doing his, the engineered hardwood was relatively easy to assemble and not nailing/gluing required (and yes, it's floating). It seems okay when I'm walking on it now, but from your expert opinion, will that be a problem later down the road?
thx

:confused: For that reason, why not invest in your floors, especially if it's for your own enjoyment & spend that extra dollar & get something nicer. In 5-10 yrs. are you planning to sell your current house? Hardwood is always a great selling feature, so I doubt you will loose money on this investment.

Yes, there is some click engineered/laminate with no nails & glue required. It will not give you any problems if you float it.

[Kymber_t_a]

Thank goodness for this Thread!!!

My boyfriend and I are buying our first condo together, it's very modern and has an open concept. We have the upper unit (floor 3 & 4) while someone else owns floor 1 and 2. However, there's carpet throughout the living room/dinning room... but ceramic in the kitchen/breakfast nook.

I really don't like the carpet, and would like to get it removed and have hardwood installed.

What is the average cost of getting carpet removed, and getting hardwood installed?

living room's dimension is 14'4" x 13'7"
Dining room's dimension is 11'0' x 9'8"

Also, the walls are a green-ish colour which I don't like too much, I'm considering just painting it myself, but i'm hesitant . . . I would probably mess it up somehow haha Do you know how much it would be to get it repainted in a diff colour? Something more neutral. . .

Last question, I live in Ottawa..can you recommend me anyone for removing carpet, installing hardwood..and paint?

Thank you!

[patrob]

Thank goodness for this Thread!!!

My boyfriend and I are buying our first condo together, it's very modern and has an open concept. We have the upper unit (floor 3 & 4) while someone else owns floor 1 and 2. However, there's carpet throughout the living room/dinning room... but ceramic in the kitchen/breakfast nook.

I really don't like the carpet, and would like to get it removed and have hardwood installed.

What is the average cost of getting carpet removed, and getting hardwood installed?

living room's dimension is 14'4" x 13'7"
Dining room's dimension is 11'0' x 9'8"

Also, the walls are a green-ish colour which I don't like too much, I'm considering just painting it myself, but i'm hesitant . . . I would probably mess it up somehow haha Do you know how much it would be to get it repainted in a diff colour? Something more neutral. . .

Last question, I live in Ottawa..can you recommend me anyone for removing carpet, installing hardwood..and paint?

Thank you!

Since you are in Ottawa, pricing there might be slightly different plus it's a condo & they are always more expensive to do. But to give you an idea, depending on what product you get, anywhere from approx. $10 & up per sq. ft. Call a hardwood flooring store in Ottawa & ask for a quote.
Here is a link to an Ottawa Forum on Building Homes & you can ask your question there, since many new homeowners have probably gone through a similar process & can recommend someone :) http://www.buildinghomes.ca/community/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Regarding painting, you should really ask a painter for pricing if you don't want to do it yourself, but it's really not that hard. Give it a try, it might just turn out ok ;)

[Kymber_t_a]

Since you are in Ottawa, pricing there might be slightly different plus it's a condo & they are always more expensive to do. But to give you an idea, depending on what product you get, anywhere from approx. $10 & up per sq. ft. Call a hardwood flooring store in Ottawa & ask for a quote.
Here is a link to an Ottawa Forum on Building Homes & you can ask your question there, since many new homeowners have probably gone through a similar process & can recommend someone :) http://www.buildinghomes.ca/community/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Regarding painting, you should really ask a painter for pricing if you don't want to do it yourself, but it's really not that hard. Give it a try, it might just turn out ok ;)


Ok awesome! Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. Maybe i'll try painting it myself, we'll see... lol

[basiclogic]

Hello...

Im buying a new home from a builder and plan on doing the hardwood floor later... should I upgrade the subfloor to the 5/8 ply???

What kinda difference would it make?

Thanks! great thread... maybe a FAQ at the first post?

[patrob]

Hello...

Im buying a new home from a builder and plan on doing the hardwood floor later... should I upgrade the subfloor to the 5/8 ply???

What kinda difference would it make?

Thanks! great thread... maybe a FAQ at the first post?

What is the standard sub-floor?

Here is a thread just about that... http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=547316&highlight=plywood+osb

Also here is more info about OSB vs. Plywood

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/osb_vs_plywood.html

[irisray]

Great board! Just found it.

I've gotten conflicting info from several flooring stores re eng. hardwood for my condo and hope you can tell me what's correct.

Torlys Everest has been suggested (planks 4-3/4" wide, 5/8" thick, 2 lengths, cork already bonded to plank). I don't know my condo's sound requirements but can add acoustic layer if required. I'm told this product is good because the veneer layer isn't thick so won't dent as deep since it doesn't have far to go. It can't be sanded but is warranteed for 20 years' wear. Will it last that long and still look decent? It's just for me, no kids.

I also liked the Toryls Summit but was told that I'm better off with the thinner veneer Everest, that the Summit will cup due to condo humidity. I was shown a store sample that had cupped and also looked like one of its layers was breaking away from the others. I've also been told by a different store that the thicker veneer is good as it can be sanded if it starts looking worn. So, which info is correct and which would be better for me?

The last product may be older stock (3/8" thick x 6" wide x 71" long). The length and width of each plank is deceiving because in the 6" wide, there are really two planks so tightly pushed together that you can't feel the joins so it almost looks like laminate. The more noticeable joins are the ones between each plank (of 2), if that makes sense.

Any help would be appreciated.

[jimt_01]

Hi,

Has anyone ever used a sandless chemical method to refinish their floors? Is it any good?

Thanks

[Daffyd]

So good to see this thread is still going...

We're selling our house in the fall... We're redoing a kitchen that someone had made into an office - so at the moment there's carpet that we're going to rip out... and the kitchen that is now on our second floor will be moved down to the first floor - other than the flooring of course...

The "new" kitchen actually has four stairs from the dining room, and four stairs at the back leading to some patio doors. We'd like to install some hardwood flooring ourselves, but keep hearing that the stairs change everything.

We'd like the kitchen to look good so we can sell, but we don't want to spend a huge amount... We had one estimate - and they told us $4,000 for a 10 x 12 room and the two stairways. It seemed awfully expensive, so we're not going with them...

We're wondering about installing a floating floor ourselves, and then finding someone to do the stairs for us. Do you think it's realistic? Would an installer even take on a job like that?

Thanks!

[patrob]

Great board! Just found it.

I've gotten conflicting info from several flooring stores re eng. hardwood for my condo and hope you can tell me what's correct.

Torlys Everest has been suggested (planks 4-3/4" wide, 5/8" thick, 2 lengths, cork already bonded to plank). I don't know my condo's sound requirements but can add acoustic layer if required. I'm told this product is good because the veneer layer isn't thick so won't dent as deep since it doesn't have far to go. It can't be sanded but is warranteed for 20 years' wear. Will it last that long and still look decent? It's just for me, no kids.

I also liked the Toryls Summit but was told that I'm better off with the thinner veneer Everest, that the Summit will cup due to condo humidity. I was shown a store sample that had cupped and also looked like one of its layers was breaking away from the others. I've also been told by a different store that the thicker veneer is good as it can be sanded if it starts looking worn. So, which info is correct and which would be better for me?

The last product may be older stock (3/8" thick x 6" wide x 71" long). The length and width of each plank is deceiving because in the 6" wide, there are really two planks so tightly pushed together that you can't feel the joins so it almost looks like laminate. The more noticeable joins are the ones between each plank (of 2), if that makes sense.

Any help would be appreciated.

Most of the times, condos are very dry. They have a central furnace but no humidifier, unless each unit has a separate system.

So in a condo, you should not be worried about humidity. IMO the slightly thicker plank will be better but it's really up to you which one you like better. Both products are fine.
Also the single boards are nicer, gives you that realistic look.

[patrob]

Hi,

Has anyone ever used a sandless chemical method to refinish their floors? Is it any good?

Thanks
You mean a paint/varnish remover :?:

If so, don't:!: It only takes off the varnish but not the actual damage in the wood :idea: Once you use the paint remover, you still have to sand anyways.

[patrob]

So good to see this thread is still going...

We're selling our house in the fall... We're redoing a kitchen that someone had made into an office - so at the moment there's carpet that we're going to rip out... and the kitchen that is now on our second floor will be moved down to the first floor - other than the flooring of course...

The "new" kitchen actually has four stairs from the dining room, and four stairs at the back leading to some patio doors. We'd like to install some hardwood flooring ourselves, but keep hearing that the stairs change everything.

We'd like the kitchen to look good so we can sell, but we don't want to spend a huge amount... We had one estimate - and they told us $4,000 for a 10 x 12 room and the two stairways. It seemed awfully expensive, so we're not going with them...

We're wondering about installing a floating floor ourselves, and then finding someone to do the stairs for us. Do you think it's realistic? Would an installer even take on a job like that?

Thanks!

That does sound on the high side. What kind of stairs are they :?: Do you have a pic :?:

[Daffyd]

I actually don't have a pic, but they're four regular sized steps - not even nice stairs... they look like they were bought at the Home Depot and put there... The kitchen was taken away and turned into an office in the 70's - so while things were done well... It's just NOT a kitchen >:(

I get the feeling the person doing the estimate figured we were loaded with cash since it's downtown, and wanted to get his cut... (I wish!)

[patrob]

I actually don't have a pic, but they're four regular sized steps - not even nice stairs... they look like they were bought at the Home Depot and put there... The kitchen was taken away and turned into an office in the 70's - so while things were done well... It's just NOT a kitchen >:(

I get the feeling the person doing the estimate figured we were loaded with cash since it's downtown, and wanted to get his cut... (I wish!)

It's hard to determine without seeing the job or at least a pic of the stairs.

[butter]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but I'm a bit too lazy check back through the various replies.

I'm looking to put hardwood down throughout the main level. Only problem is that in one room, the floor joists run one way, and down the hall the floor joists run the other way.

I want the hardwood through the main level to be all in the same direction. I've thought about installing it at a 45 degree angle, but then I didn't think the look would be nice.

My question is, since I'm running hardwood in one room in the same direction as the joists... will I encounter many problems if I don't reinforce the floor and if so, what's the best way to reinforce? Adding another layer of plywood isn't really an option available for us

[irisray]

Most of the times, condos are very dry. They have a central furnace but no humidifier, unless each unit has a separate system.

So in a condo, you should not be worried about humidity. IMO the slightly thicker plank will be better but it's really up to you which one you like better. Both products are fine.
Also the single boards are nicer, gives you that realistic look.


Thanks for your helpful response, Patrob. I didn't have a preference between tEverest and Summit and thought the thicker board would be better too, just because there's more to wear down and it can be sanded when worn. That's why I couldn't understand the salesperson directing me to the Everest except he mentioned humidity being a problem and how the Summit would cup. Then he showed me a store sample of the Summit all cupped and the layers splitting apart.

Another store suggested Quickstyle Everwood Empire. Quotes for Toryls Everest and Quickstyle were the same. Which is the better product? I wasn't keen on the Empire as it had very short boards, but some of their others line had longer boards giving the floor a less choppy look.

Thanks.

[patrob]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but I'm a bit too lazy check back through the various replies.

I'm looking to put hardwood down throughout the main level. Only problem is that in one room, the floor joists run one way, and down the hall the floor joists run the other way.

I want the hardwood through the main level to be all in the same direction. I've thought about installing it at a 45 degree angle, but then I didn't think the look would be nice.

My question is, since I'm running hardwood in one room in the same direction as the joists... will I encounter many problems if I don't reinforce the floor and if so, what's the best way to reinforce? Adding another layer of plywood isn't really an option available for us

How large is the room? What is the sub-floor OSB or ply? What are the joists, solid or TGI? What's the spread of the joist, 12 oc. or 16 oc.? How old is the house?

All of the above makes a difference, even though instructions always say to go across the joists. Sometimes you can go against instructions but it will be your responsibility in case of any warranty problems. You can also add solid wood crosses between joists to reinforce the sub-floor (if accessible).

[patrob]

Thanks for your helpful response, Patrob. I didn't have a preference between tEverest and Summit and thought the thicker board would be better too, just because there's more to wear down and it can be sanded when worn. That's why I couldn't understand the salesperson directing me to the Everest except he mentioned humidity being a problem and how the Summit would cup. Then he showed me a store sample of the Summit all cupped and the layers splitting apart.

Another store suggested Quickstyle Everwood Empire. Quotes for Toryls Everest and Quickstyle were the same. Which is the better product? I wasn't keen on the Empire as it had very short boards, but some of their others line had longer boards giving the floor a less choppy look.

Thanks.

Perhaps the sales guy had a better mark up on the other plank, that's why he was pushing you in that direction :D Go with the thicker one as long as it has the 4 side microbevel. If any of these product would de-laminate, it's a major manufacturer defect & would be covered by the manufacturer & Torlys has a very good warranty. So stick with Torlys, it's a proven product.

[sunnybono]

hey Patrob, what is your opinion on the Kronotex product???(Laminate Flooring).

sk

[patrob]

hey Patrob, what is your opinion on the Kronotex product???(Laminate Flooring).

sk

Looks nice but can't comment on actual quality of the product since never worked with it yet.

[butter]

How large is the room? What is the sub-floor OSB or ply? What are the joists, solid or TGI? What's the spread of the joist, 12 oc. or 16 oc.? How old is the house?

All of the above makes a difference, even though instructions always say to go across the joists. Sometimes you can go against instructions but it will be your responsibility in case of any warranty problems. You can also add solid wood crosses between joists to reinforce the sub-floor (if accessible).

The room is approx. 262 sqft (13'x19'), plywood, solid joists 2"x8" 12 oc., brand new house.

[patrob]

The room is approx. 262 sqft (13'x19'), plywood, solid joists 2"x8" 12 oc., brand new house.

Add some 2x8 crosses every joist, 16 oc. with screws & PL. It will be PITA if you ever finish your basement :D but it will make the floor really strong.

[butter]

Add some 2x8 crosses every joist, 16 oc. with screws & PL. It will be PITA if you ever finish your basement :D but it will make the floor really strong.

Thanks a bunch Patrob! btw, what's PL?

[irisray]

Patrob, thanks a lot for your help!

[patrob]

Thanks a bunch Patrob! btw, what's PL?

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6774925&postcount=467 ;)

Patrob, thanks a lot for your help!

No problem :)

[Tacoma]

Hi Patrob,

Thanks for taking the time to do this! This is the best thread (an maybe the longest! on the board!

I have a 2 unrelated question which I'll split as Part I and Part II...

Part I

We've had our new oak floors installed for a few months now. At the beginning we could hear sounds as we walked on the floor that appeared to be sounds of the floor settling in; kind of like crackling sounds within a 10 ft radius of where you're walking. This was especially noticeable, for example, near the fireplace, I guess due to the expansion/contraction of the wood due to changes in temperature. And we're hearing it again more lately as the weather warms and humidity increases.

So my questions are:

1) Can I assume these crackling sounds to be a part of the settling in process for new floors and not due to poor or faulty workmanship?
2) If the answer to (1) is yes, then when can I expect the sounds to disappear?

Part II

We have a fairly deep scratch about a foot long scratch on the dark walnut hardwood floor that a furniture delivery person made while deliverying furniture some time ago. It's deep enough that you can see from at least 5 feet away. They said they can fix it but was not specific. We called the folks who installed our floors and he said that he could replace the affected strip panels with a new one.

So my questions are:

1) What are our options to fix?
2) The scratch is in the middle of the room and the floor is nailed down and locked together in a tongue and groove pattern, so how can they simply pull out a strip panel in the middle of the floor and replace it with new ones?

Thanks again and sorry for so many questions and please do refer me to a previous post if one of these questions have been answered before.

[sfx]

Hi Patrob,

So my questions are:

1) What are our options to fix?
2) The scratch is in the middle of the room and the floor is nailed down and locked together in a tongue and groove pattern, so how can they simply pull out a strip panel in the middle of the floor and replace it with new ones?



1) Easy thing would be to try those wax pens deals to fill in the dent part. I would guess you'd have to continually touchup the spot every so often.

2) I believe they would cut out the damaged pieces and glue in the replacement since the tongue/groove would be cut out as well. Don't quote me on that though.

[Chigu]

How much should it cost for 3 1/4 inch Oak (3/4 inch thickness) wood? I just bought a resale house and I want to make the family room the same hardwood as the rest of the main floor (i.e. remove the carpet).

I was thinking $3-$5 per square foot?? is that about right? (not including installation)

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Thanks for taking the time to do this! This is the best thread (an maybe the longest! on the board!

I have a 2 unrelated question which I'll split as Part I and Part II...

Part I

We've had our new oak floors installed for a few months now. At the beginning we could hear sounds as we walked on the floor that appeared to be sounds of the floor settling in; kind of like crackling sounds within a 10 ft radius of where you're walking. This was especially noticeable, for example, near the fireplace, I guess due to the expansion/contraction of the wood due to changes in temperature. And we're hearing it again more lately as the weather warms and humidity increases.

So my questions are:

1) Can I assume these crackling sounds to be a part of the settling in process for new floors and not due to poor or faulty workmanship?
2) If the answer to (1) is yes, then when can I expect the sounds to disappear?

Part II

We have a fairly deep scratch about a foot long scratch on the dark walnut hardwood floor that a furniture delivery person made while deliverying furniture some time ago. It's deep enough that you can see from at least 5 feet away. They said they can fix it but was not specific. We called the folks who installed our floors and he said that he could replace the affected strip panels with a new one.

So my questions are:

1) What are our options to fix?
2) The scratch is in the middle of the room and the floor is nailed down and locked together in a tongue and groove pattern, so how can they simply pull out a strip panel in the middle of the floor and replace it with new ones?

Thanks again and sorry for so many questions and please do refer me to a previous post if one of these questions have been answered before.

The sounds may not disappear, that's just the way wood works. They go away & then they come back. Is the sound around the walls, maybe it's too tight to the baseboards? You might just have to live with it. Give it 4 seasons.

Make sure the moving company covers the costs & make sure you have your own installer take care of it, not theirs. Your installer will have to pull out the scratched board & install the new one. He knows how it's done & you should not be able to see where it was ;)

[patrob]

How much should it cost for 3 1/4 inch Oak (3/4 inch thickness) wood? I just bought a resale house and I want to make the family room the same hardwood as the rest of the main floor (i.e. remove the carpet).

I was thinking $3-$5 per square foot?? is that about right? (not including installation)

It's hard to say, there are products anywhere from $2 & up... Do you want to have an exact match to your existing floors? Do you know what's installed,
manufacturer, grade, colour? It can be something for $3 or $8, who knows. Wood between $3 & $5, is a lower grade.

[Chigu]

It's hard to say, there are products anywhere from $2 & up... Do you want to have an exact match to your existing floors? Do you know what's installed,
manufacturer, grade, colour? It can be something for $3 or $8, who knows. Wood between $3 & $5, is a lower grade.

Hi!

Yes I would like an exact match to my current floors. However, I just moved into the house and am not sure what the flooring is. Would a contractor be able to tell?

[irisray]

Thank you for this wonderful board and for sharing your knowledge.

I'd like jatoba engineered hardwood for my condo and have looked at Toryls Everest, Quickstyle Empire and Goodfellow Masters Choice.

The Goodfellow wood looks the nicest and the finish (alum. oxide/ceramic) feels the best. 2mm veneer, 9 layers of Russian Birch plywood, 4-3/4" wide, The store where I saw this said they'd lay it with a 8 gauge cork underlay, no vapour barrier necessary as the cork would do.

Quickstyle has the same construction as Goodfellow. Torlys has a very thin veneer and one thick layer of some kind of pressed wood? and a cork backing.

So, my questions are:

1. is Goodfellows a good product? A store that can order it in but mostly carries Torlys said it's from China, cheaper quality than Toryls, that it may cup, or the plywood layers split, that the Toryls is better because of the thin veneer so no cupping. They said the Torlys floor would feel more solid because the cork is attached and the sound would be better. Is any of this information correct?

2. if I go with a product without the cork backing and get cork underlay, do I need a vapour barrier?

3. is jatoba an okay choice for a Toronto condo re humidity (I'm far from the lake)?

Thanks for your help.:cheesygri

[xXMaRkSmAnXx]

Hi Patrob,
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us and more importantly, for taking the time to answer all of our questions! I've read all 35 pages and have learned a lot.. it was specially very useful when i started visiting local shops and knew exactly what to look for and types of questions to ask.

Based on this thread and since I live in a condo, I've decided to go with engineered hardwood flooring. Also, I'm leaning towards a floating install because it seems the cleanest, easiest and most cost effective. I love Torly's products, in particular the Everest or Summit line. However, I have 2 issues: 1) I prefer a semi-gloss or glossier finish but Torly's products are all "matte" looking 2) I need to match the hardwood to a mohogany/reddish-colored cabinetry - I'm thinking it has to be a dark color so it doesn't clash

Can you recommend any comporable (in price and quality) engineered hardwood products that come in glossier finishes than Torly's? Lastly, any ideas on color combinations to match the mohogany/rosewood color?

Your help is much appreciated.. thanks again!

[irisray]

Hi xxMarksmanxx:

I'm not a flooring expert, but think jatoba would look nice. I've posted some questions about jatoba and the different companies just above your post.

I started out looking at maple but it didn't suit my place and then I came across a sample of jatoba and really liked it. I have a mahogany diningroom set and buffet and the jatoba looks gorgeous with it. The sample board I've borrowed (Goodfellow) is similar in tone to my set, but because each board is different and the colour can vary a lot it doesn't completely blend in with my diningroom set but complements it beautifully.

Like you, I prefer the glossier finish but the mat finish seems to be the trend these days so it's everywhere. The Goodfellow Masters Choice jatoba has a bit more gloss than the Torlys. I find on some woods the mat finish makes the wood look not real, like it's laminate. The Everest has a very thin veneer layer compared to the Summit and Goodfellows Master Choice, but I don't know which is the better product. I'm waiting for Patrob's knowledgeable response. Good luck hunting.

[xXMaRkSmAnXx]

Hi xxMarksmanxx:

I'm not a flooring expert, but think jatoba would look nice. I've posted some questions about jatoba and the different companies just above your post.

I started out looking at maple but it didn't suit my place and then I came across a sample of jatoba and really liked it. I have a mahogany diningroom set and buffet and the jatoba looks gorgeous with it. The sample board I've borrowed (Goodfellow) is similar in tone to my set, but because each board is different and the colour can vary a lot it doesn't completely blend in with my diningroom set but complements it beautifully.

Like you, I prefer the glossier finish but the mat finish seems to be the trend these days so it's everywhere. The Goodfellow Masters Choice jatoba has a bit more gloss than the Torlys. I find on some woods the mat finish makes the wood look not real, like it's laminate. The Everest has a very thin veneer layer compared to the Summit and Goodfellows Master Choice, but I don't know which is the better product. I'm waiting for Patrob's knowledgeable response. Good luck hunting.

irisray,
thanks for your comments/input! That's exactly how i feel about some of the matte finishes, in that it looks like laminate. I will look at the Goodfellow Master's Choice you suggested. I forgot to mention that I also liked Torly's Everest in Rosewood.. that's a bit more glossy with a very nice grain and color. Im afraid, however, that it is a bit orangy and may clash with the mohogany. Let's see what Patrob has to say :) Which stores do you recommend, that carries the Goodfellows products?

On another note, Patrob was totally right in recommending Darmaga (Richmond Hill) as having the best prices coupled with customer service specially for Torly's products.

[patrob]

Thank you for this wonderful board and for sharing your knowledge.

I'd like jatoba engineered hardwood for my condo and have looked at Toryls Everest, Quickstyle Empire and Goodfellow Masters Choice.

The Goodfellow wood looks the nicest and the finish (alum. oxide/ceramic) feels the best. 2mm veneer, 9 layers of Russian Birch plywood, 4-3/4" wide, The store where I saw this said they'd lay it with a 8 gauge cork underlay, no vapour barrier necessary as the cork would do.

Quickstyle has the same construction as Goodfellow. Torlys has a very thin veneer and one thick layer of some kind of pressed wood? and a cork backing.

So, my questions are:

1. is Goodfellows a good product? A store that can order it in but mostly carries Torlys said it's from China, cheaper quality than Toryls, that it may cup, or the plywood layers split, that the Toryls is better because of the thin veneer so no cupping. They said the Torlys floor would feel more solid because the cork is attached and the sound would be better. Is any of this information correct?

2. if I go with a product without the cork backing and get cork underlay, do I need a vapour barrier?

3. is jatoba an okay choice for a Toronto condo re humidity (I'm far from the lake)?

Thanks for your help.:cheesygri

Why do you want Jatoba? No exotic species is good for this country, especially for condos. Condos tend to be very dry. Just because everybody talks about Jatoba, doesn't mean it's that good & personally I feel Jatoba is highly overrated. Even with engineered Jatoba has problems & tends to crack a lot.

1) Goodfellow is an ok product. From my experience even though the wood was milled in Indonesia or China, the milling was pretty good but I can't say the same about the finish. I still prefer Torlys over Goodfellow.

2) Cork backing will not be sufficient enough for your condo. It must be around 6 mm. Usually the cork backing is 1/8" or less, so you will have to install additional cork underlay & no vapour barrier for condo applications. Are you doing floating or glue down?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us and more importantly, for taking the time to answer all of our questions! I've read all 35 pages and have learned a lot.. it was specially very useful when i started visiting local shops and knew exactly what to look for and types of questions to ask.

Based on this thread and since I live in a condo, I've decided to go with engineered hardwood flooring. Also, I'm leaning towards a floating install because it seems the cleanest, easiest and most cost effective. I love Torly's products, in particular the Everest or Summit line. However, I have 2 issues: 1) I prefer a semi-gloss or glossier finish but Torly's products are all "matte" looking 2) I need to match the hardwood to a mohogany/reddish-colored cabinetry - I'm thinking it has to be a dark color so it doesn't clash

Can you recommend any comporable (in price and quality) engineered hardwood products that come in glossier finishes than Torly's? Lastly, any ideas on color combinations to match the mohogany/rosewood color?

Your help is much appreciated.. thanks again!

Semi-gloss or gloss finish tends to show more damage, like dents, scratches, etc. Also shows more dust. Every manufacturer is trying to go towards lower gloss which is more trendy & more forgiving.

You have reddish cabinets & you want reddish floors too? If you match all those colours together, that will clash. Floors don't have to be the same colour as your cabinetry. I assume you are referring to kitchen cabinets... Personally I think a good colour combination would be from med. brown to dark brown & even a graphite/dark gray colour, which not everybody likes.

Follow this link http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/decor-simulator.html & create your own floor design. You can choose diff. kitchen cabinet colours & see which hardwood colour will go well with the cabinets, etc...

[irisray]

Why do you want Jatoba? No exotic species is good for this country, especially for condos. Condos tend to be very dry. Just because everybody talks about Jatoba, doesn't mean it's that good & personally I feel Jatoba is highly overrated. Even with engineered Jatoba has problems & tends to crack a lot.

1) Goodfellow is an ok product. From my experience even though the wood was milled in Indonesia or China, the milling was pretty good but I can't say the same about the finish. I still prefer Torlys over Goodfellow.

2) Cork backing will not be sufficient enough for your condo. It must be around 6 mm. Usually the cork backing is 1/8" or less, so you will have to install additional cork underlay & no vapour barrier for condo applications. Are you doing floating or glue down?


Hi Patrob:

Thank you for your response. My floor will be floating, and once I find one (if ever), I can actually move in :cheesygri I like the graining and colour of jatoba, and the Goodfellows in particular because the finish is glossier. Their jatoba looked nicer and richer than the other brands, maybe because of the glossier finish.

Why do say Goodfellow's coating isn't as good as Toryls?

Is the floor more stable on Everest (thin veneer, no plywood layers) than Summit/Quickstyle Empire/Goodfellow Masters Choice (thick veneer, many plywood layers?)

Will the thicker veneers really cup and the layers split? In a previous post you said to go with the thicker. I was told by the same store that said the Summit would cup and split, that though the thicker veneers are advertised as re-sandable nobody does this with floating floors, that it just wouldn't work. True?

I'm open to wood suggestions. I don't want to go darker than the jatoba. I like dark flooring but not how it shows the dust and my place isn't enormous so I don't want to feel closed in. Which is why I'd started off with maple but the Toryls and Quickstyle maples were too light for my place (faces south and the wood looked washed out in there). I have mahogany furniture in diningroom and bedroom.

Your help is much appreciated.

[xXMaRkSmAnXx]

Semi-gloss or gloss finish tends to show more damage, like dents, scratches, etc. Also shows more dust. Every manufacturer is trying to go towards lower gloss which is more trendy & more forgiving.

You have reddish cabinets & you want reddish floors too? If you match all those colours together, that will clash. Floors don't have to be the same colour as your cabinetry. I assume you are referring to kitchen cabinets... Personally I think a good colour combination would be from med. brown to dark brown & even a graphite/dark gray colour, which not everybody likes.

Follow this link http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/decor-simulator.html & create your own floor design. You can choose diff. kitchen cabinet colours & see which hardwood colour will go well with the cabinets, etc...

Sorry for not being clear.. I am looking for dark browns as I know that trying to match the mohogany with other red colors is difficult and will clash. THe only difficulty is getting a dark brown with a semi-gloss finish. Im aware of the extra care and maintenance that glossy finished floors bring, but I prefer the look. I've also looked at grey shades but most I've seen are light. Can you recommend dark browns or graphite colored hardwood with at least a semi-gloss finish? IF so, what brands and where do you recommend I look? thanks again!

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Thank you for your response. My floor will be floating, and once I find one (if ever), I can actually move in :cheesygri I like the graining and colour of jatoba, and the Goodfellows in particular because the finish is glossier. Their jatoba looked nicer and richer than the other brands, maybe because of the glossier finish.

Why do say Goodfellow's coating isn't as good as Toryls?

Is the floor more stable on Everest (thin veneer, no plywood layers) than Summit/Quickstyle Empire/Goodfellow Masters Choice (thick veneer, many plywood layers?)

Will the thicker veneers really cup and the layers split? In a previous post you said to go with the thicker. I was told by the same store that said the Summit would cup and split, that though the thicker veneers are advertised as re-sandable nobody does this with floating floors, that it just wouldn't work. True?

I'm open to wood suggestions. I don't want to go darker than the jatoba. I like dark flooring but not how it shows the dust and my place isn't enormous so I don't want to feel closed in. Which is why I'd started off with maple but the Toryls and Quickstyle maples were too light for my place (faces south and the wood looked washed out in there). I have mahogany furniture in diningroom and bedroom.

Your help is much appreciated.

Milling of wood from Asian countries improved a lot recently. But the finish still needs some work. It seems very weak, easy to scratch & even possibilities of peeling off. That's the reason I recommend Torlys, which is a renowned product & you will have no problems with cust. service in case of any problems, which I can't say the same for the others... I haven't seen refinished floating floor yet but I don't see a reason why it couldn't be done.

You don't even have the floors yet & you're already thinking about refinishing. With good flooring products from Vintage, Mirage, Louzon, Torlys, etc...you don't have to think about refinishing for years to come. So nothing to worry about. And the capping happens only with high humidity. Every manufacturer shows a chart of what happens to wood with high or low humidity levels. So as long as you follow the manufacturer's recommendations, you will have no problems.

If you are going over the $4 range, why not add a little more & look at Vintage engineered ? Which is semi-gloss with high variety of species & colours. I am sure you could easily choose something from their line & their eng. is solid sawn which has a lower possibility of capping & shrinkage.
http://www.vintageflooring.com/product_ss_ex_2.php

[a_mighty_engr]

Hi Patrob,

First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and time with us all, I greatly appreciate and enjoy reading your inputs.

I am about to start installing floors for my newly built home. I want to know what tricks there are instead of face nailing the peices near walls or nosing. Everywhere I read, they say to just face nail it and patch it up afterwards, but all the new homes I see don't have any plugs or fills to show this.

For example, the peice that goes against a nosing/railing, how do I secure that peice on without face nailing or screwing it from the face? I assume I can screw it from beneath in the basement, but this wouldn't work for 2nd floor installation.

is glue the answer?

Thanks..

[Homeo]

Hi Patrob.

Awesome Thread.. i've been looking to do this for a long time now and have a few questions:

1) have you heard of "St. Ciela" brand engineered hardwood with uniclic? I saw it at M-u flooring in Richmond Hill - can't find info on this anywhere. it's 9 layer plywood core with 3.3mm veneer

2) What's your opinion on uniclic engineered hardwood? Seems easy enough to install but I thought it was only for laminate until now. I don't have a nailer/stapler so its a cost savings not to have to buy these tools (undoubtedly this will not be my last flooring job - hence i want to buy the tools)

Thanks!

[patrob]

Sorry for not being clear.. I am looking for dark browns as I know that trying to match the mohogany with other red colors is difficult and will clash. THe only difficulty is getting a dark brown with a semi-gloss finish. Im aware of the extra care and maintenance that glossy finished floors bring, but I prefer the look. I've also looked at grey shades but most I've seen are light. Can you recommend dark browns or graphite colored hardwood with at least a semi-gloss finish? IF so, what brands and where do you recommend I look? thanks again!

As I have mentioned in post #527, check out Vintage Flooring engineered.

If you like dark colours, check out the Black Opal hickory, Rembrandt, Carriage House. Best to see the colours on a real sample, not the website. On a pic it always shows a bit different.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and time with us all, I greatly appreciate and enjoy reading your inputs.

I am about to start installing floors for my newly built home. I want to know what tricks there are instead of face nailing the peices near walls or nosing. Everywhere I read, they say to just face nail it and patch it up afterwards, but all the new homes I see don't have any plugs or fills to show this.

For example, the peice that goes against a nosing/railing, how do I secure that peice on without face nailing or screwing it from the face? I assume I can screw it from beneath in the basement, but this wouldn't work for 2nd floor installation.

is glue the answer?

Thanks..

Yes, glue & front nail is one of the tricks ;)

[patrob]

Hi Patrob.

Awesome Thread.. i've been looking to do this for a long time now and have a few questions:

1) have you heard of "St. Ciela" brand engineered hardwood with uniclic? I saw it at M-u flooring in Richmond Hill - can't find info on this anywhere. it's 9 layer plywood core with 3.3mm veneer

2) What's your opinion on uniclic engineered hardwood? Seems easy enough to install but I thought it was only for laminate until now. I don't have a nailer/stapler so its a cost savings not to have to buy these tools (undoubtedly this will not be my last flooring job - hence i want to buy the tools)

Thanks!
1) Not familiar with that brand but very familiar with "Uniclic", one of the best locking systems.

2) If it is the actual Uniclic, you shouldn't have a problem to install it. But how is the actual product, like structural, veneer, colour & finish?

[saugaman]

Are you looking for someone to do it or you just want to buy the iron pickets & posts & change it yourself:?:

I know somebody who does it if you want the name & phone #.

Hi Patrob ... I was just going through the thread and came across your post about knowing someone who can change wooden pickets to iron. I am in the process of refinishing my stairs and would appreciate the name and phone # of someone who can help with the pickets. Thanks.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob ... I was just going through the thread and came across your post about knowing someone who can change wooden pickets to iron. I am in the process of refinishing my stairs and would appreciate the name and phone # of someone who can help with the pickets. Thanks.

PM sent

[alsonot]

I'm looking to sell my town home in Burlington Ontario and have to replace some carpet in the formal dining room and living room; my agent recommends hardwood and anecdotal discussion with other home buyers seem to corroborated that.

As I will not be living with the floor I'm buying based upon price and general appeal; superiors 3.5" width plank "pioneer" grade was recommended to me.

Do you feel this is an appropriate product given my situation - and do you think the average home buyer will be disappointed with that choice in comparison to other affordable hardwood options?

[sunnybono]

Hey Patrob, I noticed that you have mentioned Torly's laminate is a good flooring product, but was just wandering what your thoughts are on Kronotex, their Beaufort series which I beleive is a light commercial duty product.

sk

[Chookman]

Thanks for the thread. I've read the whole thing through from the beginning and I'm about to convert the carpet in my living room to hardwood.

Now I'm hoping to get some help finding the lowest price on a type of wood.

I'm looking to install Superior White Oak Saffron Select Grade 2 1/4" width - 350sqft.

I'm willing to go anywhere between Windsor and Toronto to get it if the price is right. Anyone here able to give me a name and number of a dealer that would give a good price? (or even better - the actual price)

[patrob]

I'm looking to sell my town home in Burlington Ontario and have to replace some carpet in the formal dining room and living room; my agent recommends hardwood and anecdotal discussion with other home buyers seem to corroborated that.

As I will not be living with the floor I'm buying based upon price and general appeal; superiors 3.5" width plank "pioneer" grade was recommended to me.

Do you feel this is an appropriate product given my situation - and do you think the average home buyer will be disappointed with that choice in comparison to other affordable hardwood options?

Yes, the product is fine. Try to get a medium to dark brown colour, it's the preferred choice with homeowners ;)

[patrob]

Hey Patrob, I noticed that you have mentioned Torly's laminate is a good flooring product, but was just wandering what your thoughts are on Kronotex, their Beaufort series which I beleive is a light commercial duty product.

sk

Honestly can't say. Is it a lot cheaper than Torlys? Do you have high square footage to install (around 1,000 ft. or more) ?

[patrob]

Thanks for the thread. I've read the whole thing through from the beginning and I'm about to convert the carpet in my living room to hardwood.

Now I'm hoping to get some help finding the lowest price on a type of wood.

I'm looking to install Superior White Oak Saffron Select Grade 2 1/4" width - 350sqft.

I'm willing to go anywhere between Windsor and Toronto to get it if the price is right. Anyone here able to give me a name and number of a dealer that would give a good price? (or even better - the actual price)

If you're thinking of saving a quarter on 350 sq. ft., I hope you have a good bicycle with a trailer because it will cost you more in gas than you will save :lol:

Unless you're saving much more, sometimes it's not worth the driving around...

Best advice for pricing, call around. Or ask Techhead, he just installed some Superior recently :D

[Chookman]

If you're thinking of saving a quarter on 350 sq. ft., I hope you have a good bicycle with a trailer because it will cost you more in gas than you will save :lol:

Unless you're saving much more, sometimes it's not worth the driving around...

Best advice for pricing, call around. Or ask Techhead, he just installed some Superior recently :D

That's why I said "if the price is right". It'll cost me $30-$40 in gas to go to Toronto and back. If I can find it $1 less per sq ft, then it's a net $300 savings. Only 2 dealers in town here sell Superior hardwood. I'd bet the competition is stronger in Toronto (not to mention the company is local (reduced delivery cost?)) and if you are suggesting I make long distance calls to unknown stores in Toronto, it's like throwing darts in the dark. I'm asking if anyone local to Toronto knows of a place that sells Superior and what the cost may be.

Maybe someone would be so kind to call the store they frequent and ask for the price of type of wood I want and PM me. At most, that's what I was hoping for. At least, I was hoping for a name of a recommended store that carries the Superior line so that I'm not blindly calling stores from the list of dealers on their website.

[sunnybono]

Honestly can't say. Is it a lot cheaper than Torlys? Do you have high square footage to install (around 1,000 ft. or more) ?

It's a bit cheaper than Torly's and I calculated about 900 sq ft that I will need.

sk

[sleepyguy]

Anyone recommend a hardwood refinisher (sand + stain + refinish, floors + a few stairs)?

Getting a few quotes right now but honestly unsure if some of these guys are reputable. I was gonna try it myself but I just don't have the time. Patrob I got your PM about your referal to the refinisher guy but he never returned my VM so he's out (1 strike you're out in my book for 1st impressions). Thanks fellow rfd'ers -sg

Oh, Oakville area near Trafalgar GO station. -sg

[patrob]

That's why I said "if the price is right". It'll cost me $30-$40 in gas to go to Toronto and back. If I can find it $1 less per sq ft, then it's a net $300 savings. Only 2 dealers in town here sell Superior hardwood. I'd bet the competition is stronger in Toronto (not to mention the company is local (reduced delivery cost?)) and if you are suggesting I make long distance calls to unknown stores in Toronto, it's like throwing darts in the dark. I'm asking if anyone local to Toronto knows of a place that sells Superior and what the cost may be.

Maybe someone would be so kind to call the store they frequent and ask for the price of type of wood I want and PM me. At most, that's what I was hoping for. At least, I was hoping for a name of a recommended store that carries the Superior line so that I'm not blindly calling stores from the list of dealers on their website.

The price for Superior or any other good wood will be anywhere from $4.50 for the lowest grade & up... If you check their dealers, I am sure they
all have websites & you can request an online quote which is free. And I did mention that Techhead recently bought some of their wood,
so maybe you should PM him & ask what price he got :idea:

[patrob]

It's a bit cheaper than Torly's and I calculated about 900 sq ft that I will need.

sk

Depends what the "bit" is :D .25 cents or .99 cents ? If it's something like .25 cents, then don't bother. Is it worth to take a risk for $200-$300 ?
And if you're going to install it yourself, Torlys is very easy to install.

[patrob]

Anyone recommend a hardwood refinisher (sand + stain + refinish, floors + a few stairs)?

Getting a few quotes right now but honestly unsure if some of these guys are reputable. I was gonna try it myself but I just don't have the time. Patrob I got your PM about your referal to the refinisher guy but he never returned my VM so he's out (1 strike you're out in my book for 1st impressions). Thanks fellow rfd'ers -sg

Oh, Oakville area near Trafalgar GO station. -sg

Honestly, maybe you should have called again. Some of those guys are extremely busy, working 7 days a week & don't even have time to check their VM.
I know for a fact he's very busy...

[Chookman]

The price for Superior or any other good wood will be anywhere from $4.50 for the lowest grade & up... If you check their dealers, I am sure they
all have websites & you can request an online quote which is free. And I did mention that Techhead recently bought some of their wood,
so maybe you should PM him & ask what price he got :idea:

Thanks, I did PM him. Just waiting for a reply. If anyone else has experience buying Superior and remembers what they paid, all info would be appreciated. I'm just trying to do my homework and be sure I'm not being ripped off on the cost. Being the first time I've purchased hardwood, I just don't want to make a bad choice or throw money away without being sure that the cost is fair.

[plugpull]

i'm looking for install hardwood floor in my family room, approx. 220 sf.
anyone can recommand a nice company at good price?

[Techhead]

If you're thinking of saving a quarter on 350 sq. ft., I hope you have a good bicycle with a trailer because it will cost you more in gas than you will save :lol:

Unless you're saving much more, sometimes it's not worth the driving around...

Best advice for pricing, call around. Or ask Techhead, he just installed some Superior recently :D

ThanX patrob.. ;) I did PM the person back..

So far 500+sq. ft. installed and looking great, I might add. :cheesygri Just one more room to go. But you know how it is, warm weather is here so too much time spent in the yard taking direction from The Wife. :lol:

[patrob]

i'm looking for install hardwood floor in my family room, approx. 220 sf.
anyone can recommand a nice company at good price?

Can you be more specific, species, colour & how much are you looking to spend ? Be realistic about the price...

So far 500+sq. ft. installed and looking great, I might add. :cheesygri Just one more room to go. But you know how it is, warm weather is here so too much time spent in the yard taking direction from The Wife. :lol:

Anything to satisfy the wife ;)

Once you're done, post pics :)

[irisray]

Milling of wood from Asian countries improved a lot recently. But the finish still needs some work. It seems very weak, easy to scratch & even possibilities of peeling off. That's the reason I recommend Torlys, which is a renowned product & you will have no problems with cust. service in case of any problems, which I can't say the same for the others... I haven't seen refinished floating floor yet but I don't see a reason why it couldn't be done.

You don't even have the floors yet & you're already thinking about refinishing. With good flooring products from Vintage, Mirage, Louzon, Torlys, etc...you don't have to think about refinishing for years to come. So nothing to worry about. And the capping happens only with high humidity. Every manufacturer shows a chart of what happens to wood with high or low humidity levels. So as long as you follow the manufacturer's recommendations, you will have no problems.

If you are going over the $4 range, why not add a little more & look at Vintage engineered ? Which is semi-gloss with high variety of species & colours. I am sure you could easily choose something from their line & their eng. is solid sawn which has a lower possibility of capping & shrinkage.
www.vintageflooring.com/colorssse.asp



Hi Patrob:

Thanks for the response. I checked the vintage online and it's a lot more than what I've been looking at. What about companies like Satin Finish or Mercier? Are their products decent? A store near me carries Shaw and Bruce, any good?

Beyond choosing wood, I'm having a heck of a time finding a decent (honest) place to buy from. I've heard more bs than you can imagine and just don't know anymore which store is okay, has decent installers, etc. I'd appreciate any recommendations you can offer.

Thank you.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Thanks for the response. I checked the vintage online and it's a lot more than what I've been looking at. What about companies like Satin Finish or Mercier? Are their products decent? A store near me carries Shaw and Bruce, any good?

Beyond choosing wood, I'm having a heck of a time finding a decent (honest) place to buy from. I've heard more bs than you can imagine and just don't know anymore which store is okay, has decent installers, etc. I'd appreciate any recommendations you can offer.

Thank you.

Actually if you look around, you can find Vintage at very comparable prices, many times they have "specials", etc... SF & Mercier are ok but I would still rather
pay .50 cents more & get Vintage. If you are looking at Bruce, you are lowering your quality. SF, Mercier is better than Bruce but then Vintage is even better.

[mickola]

Hi Patrob,

I got a quote from Darmaga, the brand is 'Superior' and they gave me 2 different price, red oak hardwood - $4.90 /sqf for 'select' grade and $5.90/sqf for 'select and better'. Installation is $2.00 /sqf. The area is 600 sqf.
Do you think it's worth it to save a loonie per sqf and get 'select' grade?

They also said, I can get $.30 cheaper if I go with narrow plank.

What do you think? Can I get a better deal?


Thanks!

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

I got a quote from Darmaga, the brand is 'Superior' and they gave me 2 different price, red oak hardwood - $4.90 /sqf for 'select' grade and $5.90/sqf for 'select and better'. Installation is $2.00 /sqf. The area is 600 sqf.
Do you think it's worth it to save a loonie per sqf and get 'select' grade?

They also said, I can get $.30 cheaper if I go with narrow plank.

What do you think? Can I get a better deal?

Thanks!

It all depends on your standards. Some people like beautiful floors, clear, uniform colour, better lengths. Select will have more shorts, colourful boards & more knots showing.
If you don't mind that, then get the select grade. But if you're picky, it will bother you. Also wider planks look better & the .30 is only $180 diff. Remember, you install it only once :!:

Keep calling around, you never know. Every place has specials from time to time.

[nem5325]

I just bought a house and want to redo the great room (currently dusty rose carpet). All said and done, about 450 sq ft. I was wondering what I'm looking at if I want bamboo flooring, installed. I'm looking to spend about $2750-$3000 for the entire job.

Is this possible?

[patrob]

I just bought a house and want to redo the great room (currently dusty rose carpet). All said and done, about 450 sq ft. I was wondering what I'm looking at if I want bamboo flooring, installed. I'm looking to spend about $2750-$3000 for the entire job.

Is this possible?

BTW, welcome to your 1st post :)

It is possible but all sub-floor preparation, finishing trim & carpet removal/disposal will have to be done by you. That price will not include reducers & specialized transition pieces.

[anhtuan]

I got a couple questions, I got hardwood put in my whole house last year and I notice that a couple of the rooms, the wood shrunk, is there anything I can do aside from tearing it appart and redoing it? As that would be too dang expensive. Secondly, I'm looking to have my stairs re-finished, can anyone recommend a good company in the GTA that does a good enough job and doesn't charge anything too excessive. And usually how much does it take to refinish your stairs?

Thanks

[nem5325]

Thanks for the informatin.

Relatively speaking, is bamboo flooring more or less expensive this hardwood flooring? I'm talking in loose general terms.

[patrob]

Thanks for the informatin.

Relatively speaking, is bamboo flooring more or less expensive this hardwood flooring? I'm talking in loose general terms.

Bamboo is usually cheaper. But there are some hardwood from who knows where, that are also cheap but you want to stay away from those.

There are bamboos from $1.99 to close to $10 sq. ft., so the quality will vary quite a bit. Bamboo between $3.50 & $5.50 sq. ft. is fairly decent.

[patrob]

I got a couple questions, I got hardwood put in my whole house last year and I notice that a couple of the rooms, the wood shrunk, is there anything I can do aside from tearing it appart and redoing it? As that would be too dang expensive. Secondly, I'm looking to have my stairs re-finished, can anyone recommend a good company in the GTA that does a good enough job and doesn't charge anything too excessive. And usually how much does it take to refinish your stairs?

Thanks

Check the humidity in those particular rooms. If dry, think about investing in a humidifier, either central or portable. Humid summer is coming & the floors should close soon. So just give it some time. Don't rip out anything !

Refinishing stairs takes a lot of time & money. There are some guys who will do it for cheap but this is all about quality labour & we all know cheap & quality does not go together :idea: Your stairs are like a centre piece of your house, you want to make sure they are done properly, not cheaply.

[GTT1]

Will be buying a new home in Grimsby area and wife wants hardwood everywhere except kitchen foyer and bathrooms.

Builder wants a small fortune to upgrade to hardwood so am probably going to ask for a credit on the carpet and have it installed right after we close.

Any recommendations on companies servicing Grimsby area (maybe from Hamilton) do GTA companies go out that far.
Want to get decent product at a great price with quality install.

Also the house is a bungalow with a loft which my wife will use as an artist studio with a portion as a spare bedroom. I was thinking of just installing a laminate myself to save some money. I also figure it will stand up best to paint (some artist colours are impossible to clean up) and water spills and if we decide to sell I could rip it up quick and have carpet/hardwood installed. What are peoples thoughts on laminates vs hardwood and can I save a worthwhile amount? The loft area is about 425 Sq Ft

[patrob]

The laminate will be half or less than hardwood. It will be a lot better for cleans ups & of course it is easy to take it out in case of a change over.

I'll PM you the contact info.

Will be buying a new home in Grimsby area and wife wants hardwood everywhere except kitchen foyer and bathrooms.

Builder wants a small fortune to upgrade to hardwood so am probably going to ask for a credit on the carpet and have it installed right after we close.

Any recommendations on companies servicing Grimsby area (maybe from Hamilton) do GTA companies go out that far.
Want to get decent product at a great price with quality install.

Also the house is a bungalow with a loft which my wife will use as an artist studio with a portion as a spare bedroom. I was thinking of just installing a laminate myself to save some money. I also figure it will stand up best to paint (some artist colours are impossible to clean up) and water spills and if we decide to sell I could rip it up quick and have carpet/hardwood installed. What are peoples thoughts on laminates vs hardwood and can I save a worthwhile amount? The loft area is about 425 Sq Ft

[jbone]

Hi,

I'm looking for some very quick advice.

I'm using an installer that was recommended to me by a friend, and they are on day 2 out of 3 installing new engineered hardwood in my condo.

Overall, it looks spectacular, other than 2 things that have me on the verge of buyer's remorse and I'd like to know if I'm overreacting, or should pursue the situation further.

1) There is a prominent creak in one area. It's concentrated in a 5-10 sqft patch. Who's responsible for what here? How should I convince him to fix it?

2) The hardwood is Select & Better and the colour consistency of the wood is nearly perfect, except for 3 boards (and a couple of other lesser ones) that are very different in the middle of my living room. It's very noticeable, and is going to drive me crazy. What are my options here?

Any timely ideas on how to handle these two things would be greatly appreciated. They will be here to finish the job tomorrow morning!

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6296/hardwoodgd7.jpg

[patrob]

Hi,

I'm looking for some very quick advice.

I'm using an installer that was recommended to me by a friend, and they are on day 2 out of 3 installing new engineered hardwood in my condo.

Overall, it looks spectacular, other than 2 things that have me on the verge of buyer's remorse and I'd like to know if I'm overreacting, or should pursue the situation further.

1) There is a prominent creak in one area. It's concentrated in a 5-10 sqft patch. Who's responsible for what here? How should I convince him to fix it?

2) The hardwood is Select & Better and the colour consistency of the wood is nearly perfect, except for 3 boards (and a couple of other lesser ones) that are very different in the middle of my living room. It's very noticeable, and is going to drive me crazy. What are my options here?

Any timely ideas on how to handle these two things would be greatly appreciated. They will be here to finish the job tomorrow morning!


I assume it's a glue down or floating with tongue & grove glue because of the tape. Why did the installer install those 3 dark boards, if everything looks near perfection. Those 3 boards should not be there & have him replace it. It won't be easy but it's doable.

There should be no creaks, maybe it's too tight to the baseboard (if floating) Don't pay him in full until all is fixed & you are satisfied.

A good installer would not have installed those 3 dark boards in the middle of the room :rolleyes:

[flyt42]

Hi,
patrob, great job in answering these questions, I have one of my own.
we are in the middle of renovating our basement, the person that is doing the framing for the walls recommended that for my flooring I first lay down a product called Delta FL and then tapcon 5/8 plywood on top of that and then use either laminate or engineered floors. I was even considering real hardwood (it's cheaper than engineered). I have 2 kids and a dog so the floors will be used well. The concrete floor is relatively leveled and the humidity is not bad at all. My question is, is this setup a bit of over kill or is the the proper way of installing floors in a basement?
Thanks

[patrob]

Hi,
patrob, great job in answering these questions, I have one of my own.
we are in the middle of renovating our basement, the person that is doing the framing for the walls recommended that for my flooring I first lay down a product called Delta FL and then tapcon 5/8 plywood on top of that and then use either laminate or engineered floors. I was even considering real hardwood (it's cheaper than engineered). I have 2 kids and a dog so the floors will be used well. The concrete floor is relatively leveled and the humidity is not bad at all. My question is, is this setup a bit of over kill or is the the proper way of installing floors in a basement?
Thanks

Solid hardwood floors should not be installed below level. For that you have laminate & engineered. Some people want to make their floors warmer or are worried about a small flood (in case of high water level, your floors will have to be replaced regardless), so they build sub-floors.

But you can install engineered or laminate straight on concrete, floating for both or glue down for engineered. Laminate is more resistant to scratches & dents, especially with kids/dogs & and it's also cheaper.

[irisray]

Hi Patrob:

I removed the last of my carpet underpad tonight. Until I got to the bedroom, the only visible thing I noticed were several areas with gouge marks in the concrete, almost like a machine did it by the way they were lined up. If there were on a wall, I'd pollyfilla them, so I'm hoping it's a similar situation for the concrete and won't be hugely expensive??

Worse is at least a 3'x3' area in the bedroom that's visibly uneven, slopes. There is also a line of wood particles sticking out or even with the concrete in this area, almost like it's outlining this section. Hard to explain, so I don't know if this makes sense, or why there'd be a straight line of wood pieces in the floor. How hard is it to even out a section of floor? Am I looking at a large expense?

I hadn't anticipated doing hardwood when I bought the condo, but found I can't do carpet for health reasons. So I'm already on a tight budget. Is there other flooring where I could get around the concrete problems?
Thanks.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

I removed the last of my carpet underpad tonight. Until I got to the bedroom, the only visible thing I noticed were several areas with gouge marks in the concrete, almost like a machine did it by the way they were lined up. If there were on a wall, I'd pollyfilla them, so I'm hoping it's a similar situation for the concrete and won't be hugely expensive??

Worse is at least a 3'x3' area in the bedroom that's visibly uneven, slopes. There is also a line of wood particles sticking out or even with the concrete in this area, almost like it's outlining this section. Hard to explain, so I don't know if this makes sense, or why there'd be a straight line of wood pieces in the floor. How hard is it to even out a section of floor? Am I looking at a large expense?

I hadn't anticipated doing hardwood when I bought the condo, but found I can't do carpet for health reasons. So I'm already on a tight budget. Is there other flooring where I could get around the concrete problems?
Thanks.

Use self leveling compound. Read the instructions carefully & don't over do it. It's fairly inexpensive & works great. There are always some areas that you can't make perfect, so you just have to forget about it.

No idea about the wood in the concrete :|, post a pic if you can.

[flyt42]

Solid hardwood floors should not be installed below level. For that you have laminate & engineered. Some people want to make their floors warmer or are worried about a small flood (in case of high water level, your floors will have to be replaced regardless), so they build sub-floors.

But you can install engineered or laminate straight on concrete, floating for both or glue down for engineered. Laminate is more resistant to scratches & dents, especially with kids/dogs & and it's also cheaper.

Thanks for the answer,
I wasn't worried about a small flood(if there is one ,like you said the floors would have to be changed no mater what) I was more concerned with the moisture from the concrete, thats the reason I wanted to build a sub-floor. Would a good underlay solve most my my issues, my wife doesn't like the feel of a spongy floor, if I go with the laminate floor is there anything on the market that I can use as an underlay that won't make it feel spongy?
Thanks

[slaman]

I would love some advice. I am looking to replace my hardwood floors because of damage. Few questions:

1. What kind of hardwood do I have (engineered, laminate, full)?
2. What could potentially have caused this damage?
3. How do I prevent this damage?
4. Would a different kind of hardwood be more resistant to this damage?
5. Is this something that can be repaired or must the whole floor be replaced?

http://slaman.homeip.net/images/hardwoodfloor/floor1.jpg

http://slaman.homeip.net/images/hardwoodfloor/floor2.jpg

http://slaman.homeip.net/images/hardwoodfloor/floor3.jpg

[patrob]

Thanks for the answer,
I wasn't worried about a small flood(if there is one ,like you said the floors would have to be changed no mater what) I was more concerned with the moisture from the concrete, thats the reason I wanted to build a sub-floor. Would a good underlay solve most my my issues, my wife doesn't like the feel of a spongy floor, if I go with the laminate floor is there anything on the market that I can use as an underlay that won't make it feel spongy?
Thanks

You can use 6 mm cork as underlay. You can use that for laminate or engineered, it can be glued to the concrete with moisture cured adhesive & then you can float your laminate or eng. or you can glue down the eng. to cork. This will give you a solid feel.

For a true solid feel, you will have to go with glue down engineered.

[patrob]

I would love some advice. I am looking to replace my hardwood floors because of damage. Few questions:

1. What kind of hardwood do I have (engineered, laminate, full)?
2. What could potentially have caused this damage?
3. How do I prevent this damage?
4. Would a different kind of hardwood be more resistant to this damage?
5. Is this something that can be repaired or must the whole floor be replaced?


:eek:

Is someone using a wet mop to wash the floors:?: It looks like water caused de-lamination. The product that you have is plywood based engineered & if you have this wood, it can be fixed. But otherwise, it will be very hard to match.

If it's a condo, you have to use engineered products or solid hardwood/eng. in a house. Wood & water does not mix :!:

[mavvee]

Hi Patrob, just a quick question about installing hardwood around oak stair nosing. If I find a good install should he/she be able to cut the wood so that it fit perfectly snug to my nosing? I don't want any gaps between the hardwood and nosing.. is that too unrealistic?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob, just a quick question about installing hardwood around oak stair nosing. If I find a good install should he/she be able to cut the wood so that it fit perfectly snug to my nosing? I don't want any gaps between the hardwood and nosing.. is that too unrealistic?

That's how it's supposed to be, snug to the nosing. On a curved nosing, where wood has to be cut into it, you can tolerate 1/16" or so, but that's on a curved nosing only. That's where the skill & patience comes in, not all installers have that ;)

[slaman]

:eek:

Is someone using a wet mop to wash the floors:?: It looks like water caused de-lamination. The product that you have is plywood based engineered & if you have this wood, it can be fixed. But otherwise, it will be very hard to match.

If it's a condo, you have to use engineered products or solid hardwood/eng. in a house. Wood & water does not mix :!:


Ok, so it is a Plywood-based engineered hardwood, not laminate flooring?

I'm still trying to follow-up with the builder/contractor to determine the exact make and model.

This is caused by water? If so, I will be going through my insurance company to get this fixed... my question becomes - is this something that can be easily repaired, or would the insurance company have to replace the entire thing... If they have to replace it, my questions will have a slightly different feel to them as I'll be shopping around for a new floor! ;)

PS: Thanks for your help - this is a helpful thread!

[patrob]

Ok, so it is a Plywood-based engineered hardwood, not laminate flooring?

I'm still trying to follow-up with the builder/contractor to determine the exact make and model.

This is caused by water? If so, I will be going through my insurance company to get this fixed... my question becomes - is this something that can be easily repaired, or would the insurance company have to replace the entire thing... If they have to replace it, my questions will have a slightly different feel to them as I'll be shopping around for a new floor! ;)

PS: Thanks for your help - this is a helpful thread!

If you washed the floors with excessive water or a flower planter, water overall caused by your actions, it might not be covered by insurance. They will investigate what caused the damage & if water caused it, where it came from...

Are you the original owner? You must know what happened.

[flyt42]

You can use 6 mm cork as underlay. You can use that for laminate or engineered, it can be glued to the concrete with moisture cured adhesive & then you can float your laminate or eng. or you can glue down the eng. to cork. This will give you a solid feel.

For a true solid feel, you will have to go with glue down engineered.

Thank you:)

[slaman]

If you washed the floors with excessive water or a flower planter, water overall caused by your actions, it might not be covered by insurance. They will investigate what caused the damage & if water caused it, where it came from...

Are you the original owner? You must know what happened.

I definitely was the owner while it happened... and, to be honest, I have no idea what could have caused it... Perhaps an overwatered plant could have contributed to one area, but there are so many planks that show discolouration and are nowhere near any plants... they are all near my balcony door, so perhaps water from outside?

Regardless - is multi-layered engineered hardwood better than the plywood-based hardwood that I have? I went to a showroom today, and they had some nice hardwood (European Flooring), but the planks weren't as thick as the ones I have (7.5")

[patrob]

I definitely was the owner while it happened... and, to be honest, I have no idea what could have caused it... Perhaps an overwatered plant could have contributed to one area, but there are so many planks that show discolouration and are nowhere near any plants... they are all near my balcony door, so perhaps water from outside?

Regardless - is multi-layered engineered hardwood better than the plywood-based hardwood that I have? I went to a showroom today, and they had some nice hardwood (European Flooring), but the planks weren't as thick as the ones I have (7.5")

If it was water from outside, it should be covered under your home insurance. The insurance co. will make sure the balcony doors are fixed so that
the water does not leak again & causes the same problem again. Usually with the floors they give you a budget to choose your floors according to their budget & you have to stay within the given budget.

Solid Sawn is considered the best base for an engineered product. It consists of 3 layers for added strength & stability &
minimizes the de-lamination possibilities.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7996/vintagesolidsawnye9.jpg

[irisray]

Use self leveling compound. Read the instructions carefully & don't over do it. It's fairly inexpensive & works great. There are always some areas that you can't make perfect, so you just have to forget about it.

No idea about the wood in the concrete :|, post a pic if you can.

Hi Patrob:

I'll try to figure out how to post a pic of the concrete tomorrow so you can have a look.

I found some wood I like and the guy in the store told me it's floating but I went onto the company's website and don't think so. It's mirage engineered (the tongue & groove that requires glue to put the pieces together). He said they lay it over Toryls acoustic. Does this sound okay to you? I don't think my condo allows glueing directly to concrete. Can the acoustic be laid and the flooring glued to it? What happens to the acoustic if the floor expands/contracts?

Is it good flooring and appropriate for a condo?

Many thanks.

[r4sharma]

I've been given a quote of $ 1500 to install 220 sq. ft with the best quality oakwood ( as per the folks installing)
Price includes taking out existing carpet. Comes to around $7 a sq foot - installed.
Wondering if there are any better deals out there in the mississauga/brampton/milton area
Thanks!

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

I'll try to figure out how to post a pic of the concrete tomorrow so you can have a look.

I found some wood I like and the guy in the store told me it's floating but I went onto the company's website and don't think so. It's mirage engineered (the tongue & groove that requires glue to put the pieces together). He said they lay it over Toryls acoustic. Does this sound okay to you? I don't think my condo allows glueing directly to concrete. Can the acoustic be laid and the flooring glued to it? What happens to the acoustic if the floor expands/contracts?

Is it good flooring and appropriate for a condo?

Many thanks.

To float a floor, it doesn't have to be "click". A lot of manufacturers like Vintage, Mirage, etc. make their engineered products versatile. Which can be glued solid, nailed or floated.
To float you use glue on tongue & groove only, so you glue the boards together but not to the sub-floor.

The underlay "acoustic" will be laid over concrete with seams taped together & wood floated on it. So nothing will be directly glued to the concrete.

I hope this helps :)

[patrob]

I've been given a quote of $ 1500 to install 220 sq. ft with the best quality oakwood ( as per the folks installing)
Price includes taking out existing carpet. Comes to around $7 a sq foot - installed.
Wondering if there are any better deals out there in the mississauga/brampton/milton area
Thanks!

Wow, best oak :rolleyes: It must be from China...

This job should cost minimum of $1,800 plus & that does not include the best oak. What about your quarter round?

$1,500 is a really low price but it sounds a bit fishy when they say "best" oak :|

[irisray]

To float a floor, it doesn't have to be "click". A lot of manufacturers like Vintage, Mirage, etc. make their engineered products versatile. Which can be glued solid, nailed or floated.
To float you use glue on tongue & groove only, so you glue the boards together but not to the sub-floor.

The underlay "acoustic" will be laid over concrete with seams taped together & wood floated on it. So nothing will be directly glued to the concrete.

I hope this helps :)

Hi Patrob:

The Mirage website only says glue or nail to subfloor. I called the store where I'd borrowed a sample that's just perfect for my place to verify the info on the website. I was told it's not floating but could be glued down. My condo doesn't allow glue down.

How stable is glued tongue and groove compared to lock/click? The lock system sounds like such a good, tight grip on the boards. Can't the glue get old, or lose it's grip, particularly if the boards contract/expand? Or, is the glue along the lines of crazy glue, that once glued they'll never come apart? With tongue and groove, couldn't uneven pressure on the floor, like a heavy dresser in one area and not in the other, unbalance the floor and break the seal of the tongue and groove since they're not locked in? As you can tell, I'm new to the world of hardwood floors.

You've been so helpful. I really appreciate it. I'll follow up with mirage re floating this floor. Let you know what happens.

Thank you.

[s1301950]

My friend's house always got like the best looking (nice and glossy) hardwood floor i've ever seen and her house is like over >15 yrs. Ours is barely 10 but it's already dull looking. No matter how i can clean it. Is there anyway way to like polish it up or somethin? or cleaning solution you recommend?

Also i got a few chips here and there from dropping objects, what's the best way to repair?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

The Mirage website only says glue or nail to subfloor. I called the store where I'd borrowed a sample that's just perfect for my place to verify the info on the website. I was told it's not floating but could be glued down. My condo doesn't allow glue down.

How stable is glued tongue and groove compared to lock/click? The lock system sounds like such a good, tight grip on the boards. Can't the glue get old, or lose it's grip, particularly if the boards contract/expand? Or, is the glue along the lines of crazy glue, that once glued they'll never come apart? With tongue and groove, couldn't uneven pressure on the floor, like a heavy dresser in one area and not in the other, unbalance the floor and break the seal of the tongue and groove since they're not locked in? As you can tell, I'm new to the world of hardwood floors.

You've been so helpful. I really appreciate it. I'll follow up with mirage re floating this floor. Let you know what happens.

Thank you.
Yes, the Mirage lock is a new substitute for tongue & groove floating. From what I read on their website, that would be the best choice for you. The other product looks like it can't be floated.

Have you checked Vintage products, they do have eng. that can be floated.

[patrob]

My friend's house always got like the best looking (nice and glossy) hardwood floor i've ever seen and her house is like over >15 yrs. Ours is barely 10 but it's already dull looking. No matter how i can clean it. Is there anyway way to like polish it up or somethin? or cleaning solution you recommend?

Also i got a few chips here and there from dropping objects, what's the best way to repair?

Do not use ammonias or too much water when cleaning. Hardwood flooring cleaning kits are your best choice. Without screen & coat (light sanding) nothing will bring back the "shine". Maybe the floors were low gloss from the beginning...

Also do not use any furniture cleaners or waxes, it might get too slippery :D

[kriskap]

Hi Patrob,

Simply a great thread! Thank you!

I currently have very cheap IKEA laminate upstairs and downstairs in my house. And I have a staircase of about 14 steps that looks very similar to Stealth's "before" picture, except mine still has ugly carpeting attached.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6563969&highlight=stairs#post6563969

I am currently in the planning stage to have hardwood installed upstairs, to have the stairs re-done in hardwood to match, plus a new railing and pickets. Downstairs, where the steps begin, I want to put down porcelain - extending from hall into kitchen. I will have this installed, not do it myself:

1) What should be the order of work - paint walls first, install 2nd floor hardwood, then the stairs and then the porcelain? Or a different combination?

2) Does it make sense to have the stairs done by the same company that installs the floor, in the same wood that I will purchase for upstairs (which will probably be Vintage or Mirage based on your recommendations)?

I ask that because I found a company that just does stair renovations. I asked for a rough quote just based on my info of 14 steps and received this:

Maple Railing and Wrought Iron Pickets - $1,700.00

Maple Stairs - $2,700.00

Oak Railing with Oak Pickets - $1,300.00

Oak Stairs - $2,300.00 to $2,400.00

This quote is based on a 14 rise stairs.

What are your thoughts? What questions should I be asking the stair company?

3) I have both kids (8,11 and 15) and dogs (golden retrievier & terrier) and two cats. I really, really prefer hardwood over laminate - what sort of wood would you recommend for consideration? Oak? Something else?

Apologies for so many questions. I am mired in research right now, trying to figure this all out before I actually put any money down!

Thank you SO much and I think I already know where to look for my floor installer when I'm finally ready -- if he's not too busy. ;)

Christine

[lapse]

Patrob,

Just want to say thanks for your instructions on building custom thresholds. I bought some nice oak 8 foot 1x3" and cut them to length on my table saw.

It took a few passes to get them to the angle I wanted and I managed to overheat the motor, blow a fuse in the garage, and burn the sides I was cutting. Fortunately your instructions keep the face away from the blade so all is good.

This weekend I'm sanding and staining them. Will post pictures.. hopefully!

[irisray]

Yes, the Mirage lock is a new substitute for tongue & groove floating. From what I read on their website, that would be the best choice for you. The other product looks like it can't be floated.

Have you checked Vintage products, they do have eng. that can be floated.

Hi Patrob:

I appreciate you checking the Mirage site. I've spoken with the condo and it turns out they'll allow glue down. BUT...

The store I've been dealing with checked my floor, and then the concrete company they recommend did a check. They said the floor has many peaks and valleys and it would be a 2 day 2 man job to level it. Cost is almost $3,000 for 550sf. I didn't expect cost to be so high so now I don't know if I can afford to lay hardwood. Any suggestions? Does this price sound fair? Can I lay cork, or some other product, over an uneven floor?

Someone in my building didn't bother to level the floors and she's had hardwood for 4 years and it's still okay. She can feel the uneveness particularly when she's in her chair as the chair will slide, but so far so good. Does doing that make any sense (apart from saving the levelling cost)? Feeling very discouraged.

Thanks.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Simply a great thread! Thank you!

I currently have very cheap IKEA laminate upstairs and downstairs in my house. And I have a staircase of about 14 steps that looks very similar to Stealth's "before" picture, except mine still has ugly carpeting attached.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6563969&highlight=stairs#post6563969

I am currently in the planning stage to have hardwood installed upstairs, to have the stairs re-done in hardwood to match, plus a new railing and pickets. Downstairs, where the steps begin, I want to put down porcelain - extending from hall into kitchen. I will have this installed, not do it myself:

1) What should be the order of work - paint walls first, install 2nd floor hardwood, then the stairs and then the porcelain? Or a different combination?

2) Does it make sense to have the stairs done by the same company that installs the floor, in the same wood that I will purchase for upstairs (which will probably be Vintage or Mirage based on your recommendations)?

I ask that because I found a company that just does stair renovations. I asked for a rough quote just based on my info of 14 steps and received this:

Maple Railing and Wrought Iron Pickets - $1,700.00

Maple Stairs - $2,700.00

Oak Railing with Oak Pickets - $1,300.00

Oak Stairs - $2,300.00 to $2,400.00

This quote is based on a 14 rise stairs.

What are your thoughts? What questions should I be asking the stair company?

3) I have both kids (8,11 and 15) and dogs (golden retrievier & terrier) and two cats. I really, really prefer hardwood over laminate - what sort of wood would you recommend for consideration? Oak? Something else?

Apologies for so many questions. I am mired in research right now, trying to figure this all out before I actually put any money down!

Thank you SO much and I think I already know where to look for my floor installer when I'm finally ready -- if he's not too busy. ;)

Christine
What goes first depends on who will do what? If you or your painter is nice & clean & will protect the floors, then you can do the floors first. If your floor installer is messy & is cutting inside, I would paint after the floors. But then if you need to do your railings, nosings & stairs you have to have nosings installed to install the floors. So after you install the noisngs, you might as well install the railings for safety. So I would install the tiles first, then stairs, nosings, railings, floors & then paint. If you are installing trim, pre-paint before installing.

With 3 kids & dogs, I would go with oak stairs vs. maple. But see if you can get iron pickets with oak stairs, will look more updated vs. oak pickets & less staining to do. And I always recommend solid stair threads, not wood planks on the threads. And even better if they come pre-finished (threads & risers).

The price for the stairs is pretty good. And I do not recommend maple for such high traffic family :D Oak floors should be your first choice. Once you are ready for the floors, let me know ;)

[patrob]

Patrob,

Just want to say thanks for your instructions on building custom thresholds. I bought some nice oak 8 foot 1x3" and cut them to length on my table saw.

It took a few passes to get them to the angle I wanted and I managed to overheat the motor, blow a fuse in the garage, and burn the sides I was cutting. Fortunately your instructions keep the face away from the blade so all is good.

This weekend I'm sanding and staining them. Will post pictures.. hopefully!

I guess it's not as easy as it seems :D Especially the first time.

Yes, post some pics too.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

I appreciate you checking the Mirage site. I've spoken with the condo and it turns out they'll allow glue down. BUT...

The store I've been dealing with checked my floor, and then the concrete company they recommend did a check. They said the floor has many peaks and valleys and it would be a 2 day 2 man job to level it. Cost is almost $3,000 for 550sf. I didn't expect cost to be so high so now I don't know if I can afford to lay hardwood. Any suggestions? Does this price sound fair? Can I lay cork, or some other product, over an uneven floor?

Someone in my building didn't bother to level the floors and she's had hardwood for 4 years and it's still okay. She can feel the uneveness particularly when she's in her chair as the chair will slide, but so far so good. Does doing that make any sense (apart from saving the levelling cost)? Feeling very discouraged.

Thanks.

Call a couple of diff. concrete contractors. It's hard to estimate the cost without seeing the job. How bad are the low & high points? Remember even if you glue the floor, it will have some empty spots on uneven sub-floor.

Every manufacturer has its sub-floor tolerance. And you don't want to invest in brand new floors without fixing the sub-floor problem first.

Perhaps a nice berber might be your best & cheapest solution :| Is it really that bad? How is it on an 8 ft. straight edge?

[irisray]

Call a couple of diff. concrete contractors. It's hard to estimate the cost without seeing the job. How bad are the low & high points? Remember even if you glue the floor, it will have some empty spots on uneven sub-floor.

Every manufacturer has its sub-floor tolerance. And you don't want to invest in brand new floors without fixing the sub-floor problem first.

Perhaps a nice berber might be your best & cheapest solution :| Is it really that bad? How is it on an 8 ft. straight edge?

Hi Patrob:

Most of the hardwood manufacturers I've been looking are require no more than 3/16" over either 5 or 10' (can't remember which at the moment). I don't have a long level but used a broom handle and could see valleys. Plus there are small gouges out of the concrete in a number of spots. The floor in the bedroom has a 3' x 3' area that slopes down on two sides and is very noticeable. There is underpad glue in a number of areas, raised paint and other spatters (likely from when the building was built).

I originally planned to carpet but found I'm allergic to the chemicals. Do you know how the cost of cork compares to hardwood? Do you know any good concrete companies?

Many thanks.

[Kate M]

Patrob: We just purchased a home and we're laying hardwood (ash) throughout, except for the front entrance and kitchen -- we're going to do tile there. For the wood, we're using Darmaga. Do you have any recommendations for tile installers? (And, on that note, do you recommend any tile products/materials over others?)

Thanks for your help -- this thread is the best!

[patrob]

Patrob: We just purchased a home and we're laying hardwood (ash) throughout, except for the front entrance and kitchen -- we're going to do tile there. For the wood, we're using Darmaga. Do you have any recommendations for tile installers? (And, on that note, do you recommend any tile products/materials over others?)

Thanks for your help -- this thread is the best!

Glad you find it helpful :)

Please PM me with your location.

Your floor covering will depend on your budget but I personally prefer natural stone to ceramics/porcelain.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Most of the hardwood manufacturers I've been looking are require no more than 3/16" over either 5 or 10' (can't remember which at the moment). I don't have a long level but used a broom handle and could see valleys. Plus there are small gouges out of the concrete in a number of spots. The floor in the bedroom has a 3' x 3' area that slopes down on two sides and is very noticeable. There is underpad glue in a number of areas, raised paint and other spatters (likely from when the building was built).

I originally planned to carpet but found I'm allergic to the chemicals. Do you know how the cost of cork compares to hardwood? Do you know any good concrete companies?

Many thanks.

PM sent.

[mavvee]

Hi Patrob, would you recommend laying down hardwood parallel with the joists if they are 12" OC with 5/8 OSB subfloor?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob, would you recommend laying down hardwood parallel with the joists if they are 12" OC with 5/8 OSB subfloor?

Every book says to go across the joist. But sometimes it's not possible on changes of direction in hallways, bedrooms, etc... So in some cases you have to go with the joists but if it's a separate room & you want to install it with the joist to make it look better, the answer is no.

3/4" OSB is equivalent to 5/8" plywood. So 5/8" OSB is a bit weaker. But then you have the 12 OC joists which also helps.

[Rexie]

I'm about ready to start my first hardwood flooring project. I'm relatively handy but haven't worked much with flooring and/or baseboards. My main level has original builder's carpet with about 3" high thin (approx. 1/4") baseboards throughout. Is it strongly recommended to remove these baseboards once the carpet is up (for future reinstallation above the carpet) or is just installing 1/4 round on top of the new 3/4" flooring OK? A picture of a typical corner is attached.

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\2008 Hardwood\DSC02570.JPG

Also there is one tricky area around the bottom of my stairs that the hardwood must interface with (picture attached). Any ideas/tricks on how to make this area look its best?

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\2008 Hardwood\DSC02569.JPG

[Rexie]

Here are the pictures: :lol:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3083/dsc02570wt9.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6203/dsc02569lp2.jpg


I'm about ready to start my first hardwood flooring project. I'm relatively handy but haven't worked much with flooring and/or baseboards. My main level has original builder's carpet with about 3" high thin (approx. 1/4") baseboards throughout. Is it strongly recommended to remove these baseboards once the carpet is up (for future reinstallation above the carpet) or is just installing 1/4 round on top of the new 3/4" flooring OK? A picture of a typical corner is attached.

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\2008 Hardwood\DSC02570.JPG

Also there is one tricky area around the bottom of my stairs that the hardwood must interface with (picture attached). Any ideas/tricks on how to make this area look its best?

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\2008 Hardwood\DSC02569.JPG

[dgmorr]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/2720%20Reno/stairs003.jpg


I have railings exactly like this. How do I remove them? Looks like they go 'into' the tread. How are they anchored?

[patrob]

I'm about ready to start my first hardwood flooring project. I'm relatively handy but haven't worked much with flooring and/or baseboards. My main level has original builder's carpet with about 3" high thin (approx. 1/4") baseboards throughout. Is it strongly recommended to remove these baseboards once the carpet is up (for future reinstallation above the carpet) or is just installing 1/4 round on top of the new 3/4" flooring OK? A picture of a typical corner is attached.

Also there is one tricky area around the bottom of my stairs that the hardwood must interface with (picture attached). Any ideas/tricks on how to make this area look its best?


You don't need to remove the baseboards, unless you really want to. That's what quarter rounds are for ;)

Around the stairs, you have to shape the planks to the shape of the stairs as tight as possible.

[patrob]

I have railings exactly like this. How do I remove them? Looks like they go 'into' the tread. How are they anchored?

They are not anchored at the bottom, only the metal strip is holding it. Remove your handrail, unscrew the screws holding the pickets, remove the metal rail & wiggle the pickets around while pulling it out slowly. They should come out easily.

[mavvee]

Hey Patrob, another question about HW installs. I have a home that's open concept with many rooms opened between each other. If I have 45 degree diagonal HW installed will it look like one big piece? or will the installer have to break up the rooms?

[patrob]

Hey Patrob, another question about HW installs. I have a home that's open concept with many rooms opened between each other. If I have 45 degree diagonal HW installed will it look like one big piece? or will the installer have to break up the rooms?

Yes, it should all be installed in one direction, no need to break up the rooms.

[mavvee]

Yes, it should all be installed in one direction, no need to break up the rooms.

Patrob, if I have three seperate rooms connected by a hallway and each room has an opening, the installer should be able to make it all seemless without a break? Amazing! The rooms aren't wide open so there is a bit of an opening and wall on each room. I'm wondering how they can install backwards to accomodate going behind the wall? Do you know what I'm trying to explain?

[patrob]

Patrob, if I have three seperate rooms connected by a hallway and each room has an opening, the installer should be able to make it all seemless without a break? Amazing! The rooms aren't wide open so there is a bit of an opening and wall on each room. I'm wondering how they can install backwards to accomodate going behind the wall? Do you know what I'm trying to explain?

It's easy for somebody who knows how it's supposed to be done ;) If you are questioning yourself about the installer who will do your floors, you
should seriously reconsider before it's too late.

Also when installing on 45 deg. it's easy to loose the line, so the installer has to be more careful on longer distances. Especially when nailing the edges on open
angle, he might end up with a 'bow' line.

[Anonymouse]

My builder is proposing to charge $11.75/sf for 2 1/4" unstained maple. Do you think I could get Vintage 3 1/4" white oak for a cheaper price?

[patrob]

My builder is proposing to charge $11.75/sf for 2 1/4" unstained maple. Do you think I could get Vintage 3 1/4" white oak for a cheaper price?

Yes for sure you can get Vintage stained pre-finished for cheaper. Where are you located?

[Anonymouse]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm in Kingston, ON

[patrob]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm in Kingston, ON

There is 1 Vintage dealer in Kingston as shown on the Vintage website, so give them a call. There are also 2 dealers in Oshawa & 1 in Peterborough, so might be worth the drive if they don't give you a good price. How many sq. ft. are you looking for?

[Anonymouse]

House is 2136 sq ft and we want to do all the principal rooms and hallways. The builder wants $14500 for this.

[patrob]

House is 2136 sq ft and we want to do all the principal rooms and hallways. The builder wants $14500 for this.

Will the builder allow you to close the house with no floor covering (ie: carpet) ? Do you have a link to your floor plan? You can PM it to me & I will calculate how much wood you will need :)

[sandviper]

We are getting 3 1/4 Vintage Estate - Pewter Red Oak hardwood floors with out builder.

the entire 2nd floor is going to cost $11,232 plus GST.
Approx 1133 sq ft of hardwood on the second floor so approx $10 plus GST a sq ft.

sounds like a lot but for that grade flooring and the sq ft even Patrob's husband said its cheap!!
he could not understand why it is so cheap for that grade wood???

i called a few places who sell vintage in Markham and got quotes for the wood alone from $6.75 to $8 plus gst for wood alone.
then add in install($1.75-$2.50 a sq ft), and quarter round ($0.50-$1 a ft) and its not much cheaper to do on my own if not more expensive.

i save the time in ripping out the carpets but i lose the carpets going through the builder.
but its the hassle i like and the fact the wood is warrantied with tarion and the house.

thanks for the help Patrob!
your husband is a super nice guy and very helpful!!!!

[patrob]

We are getting 3 1/4 Vintage Estate - Pewter Red Oak hardwood floors with out builder.

the entire 2nd floor is going to cost $11,232 plus GST.
Approx 1133 sq ft of hardwood on the second floor so approx $10 plus GST a sq ft.

sounds like a lot but for that grade flooring and the sq ft even Patrob's husband said its cheap!!
he could not understand why it is so cheap for that grade wood???

i called a few places who sell vintage in Markham and got quotes for the wood alone from $6.75 to $8 plus gst for wood alone.
then add in install($1.75-$2.50 a sq ft), and quarter round ($0.50-$1 a ft) and its not much cheaper to do on my own if not more expensive.

i save the time in ripping out the carpets but i lose the carpets going through the builder.
but its the hassle i like and the fact the wood is warrantied with tarion and the house.

thanks for the help Patrob!
your husband is a super nice guy and very helpful!!!!

Sandon

Thanks, Sandon ;)

The price you got from the builder is really good so of course you want to go with them.

Just be careful with Tarion & hardwood, they have guidelines they go by & stick to it. Make sure all scratches/damages, etc. are noted on your PDI list :!: If you visit your house while hardwood is installed or after, make sure you have your camera with you & take pics (through windows) if you see any mess on the floors.

Good luck :)

[jimgiggles]

Well. I am almost ready to start my 3/4" kempas hardwood project, i've purchased everything i need so far besides the flooring nailer, and nails.

Any suggestions on what kind of nailer i should buy, and what size nails, or cleats, staples, etc?

Thanks,

[sandviper]

unless you are going to be doing other ppls or more flooring or want to span it out over time its better and cheaper to rent one from HD or RONA.

the ones they use are comercial grade nailers and work better.

and cheaper since you only renting it for likek $40-50 a day...im guess but it cant be that much.

thats my thoughts and my friends have just rented it since a nailer is not an essential tool like a drill where you can use often to recoup the cost.

hope that helps...and this is only my humble opinion and some will say its not worth it to rent and have other opinions so listen to all the replies so you can make an educated decision.

[patrob]

Well. I am almost ready to start my 3/4" kempas hardwood project, i've purchased everything i need so far besides the flooring nailer, and nails.

Any suggestions on what kind of nailer i should buy, and what size nails, or cleats, staples, etc?

Thanks,

You can either buy or rent a cleat nailer, depending how much flooring you have & how long it will take you to install. 4 days @ $50/day = $200. Princess Auto had a nailer for less than $200 for DIY. After that you can sell it to a friend for $100 :D

Use 2" cleats, if you are using pneumatic use minimum pressure possible to minimize cracking. Kempas is a very crispy wood.

[jimgiggles]

Just noticed that Canadian Tire has a Campbell Hausfield flooring nailer on for $199. Any thoughts on this unit?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444330 5096&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672077&bmUID=1214104671592

Any thoughts on Samona nailer? I saw that one at half price tools in newmarket on for $229. Says its a knock-off of the porter-cable nailer..

I plan on purchasing within the next couple of days. so any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Thanks

[patrob]

Just noticed that Canadian Tire has a Campbell Hausfield flooring nailer on for $199. Any thoughts on this unit?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444330 5096&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672077&bmUID=1214104671592

Any thoughts on Samona nailer? I saw that one at half price tools in newmarket on for $229. Says its a knock-off of the porter-cable nailer..

I plan on purchasing within the next couple of days. so any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Thanks

If you're going to buy it from CT & if it breaks after the return policy ends, you might have some trouble due to their crappy policies lately :| IMO I would stay away from Canadian Tire.

At Princess Auto same nailer you will have no problem with return/exchange if you are not happy or if it breaks.

If you are getting a knock off, spend the least money as possible.

[jimgiggles]

Well, I just picked up the Campbell Hausfield at Canadian Tire for $199 and it looks decent. The warranty is 1 year, but in store return is 30 days. I will try it out, I am going to start my project next week, so if it goes. i'll just return it and go with the Princess auto one :)

[patrob]

Well, I just picked up the Campbell Hausfield at Canadian Tire for $199 and it looks decent. The warranty is 1 year, but in store return is 30 days. I will try it out, I am going to start my project next week, so if it goes. i'll just return it and go with the Princess auto one :)

Make sure you install your floors before the 30 days ends :D just to be safe...

[Rocketo]

Ok so my builder is asking me a question of choice.


i can either do the following:

a) 5k off price of home

c) hardwood flooring on top floor to match the lower floor


now the house is about 2k sq feet room sizes on upper floor are 13*20, 10*13, 9*11 with the hallway i don't know how much that is...i believe they are doing oak natural finish too

so you are looking at 500 sq feet on top floor that needs to be covered off

the main floor is having 2 1/4 natural oak finish..


need advice on what is the best to get

[patrob]

Ok so my builder is asking me a question of choice.

i can either do the following:

a) 5k off price of home

c) hardwood flooring on top floor to match the lower floor

now the house is about 2k sq feet room sizes on upper floor are 13*20, 10*13, 9*11 with the hallway i don't know how much that is...i believe they are doing oak natural finish too

so you are looking at 500 sq feet on top floor that needs to be covered off

the main floor is having 2 1/4 natural oak finish..

need advice on what is the best to get

As I answered "somewhere else" ;), go for the hardwood. I am sure there is more than just 500 sq. ft., I am sure you left out the closets & the hallway :D

[hammer]

can you use foam padding for hard wood floors for some cushioned walking? what does the wax paper do?

[patrob]

can you use foam padding for hard wood floors for some cushioned walking? what does the wax paper do?

No foam padding for nail down application. The wax paper is only to slide the wood easier. It reduces the friction between the hardwood & sub-floor.

[branat]

Thanks for the thread. The warden was looking to install hd flooring, jatoba. We were quoted $4.99 for it, $1.70 for installation and $3.60 for oak hardwood. When we got a home with both samples, we noticed that Jatoba is thinner, probably 1/2 inch, and the tongue and groove are almost non existent. My niece tested out its hardness by punching holes in both of them. The Jatoba was easier to put a dent. Does it mean that the wood is not of a good quality?

[sillysimms]

I nominated this thread for Most Helpful Thread in the RFD Member Awards. I find it gives us a lot of info and knowledge with patrob spending a lot of time here and always giving timely and informative responses. Good luck!

[patrob]

Thanks for the thread. The warden was looking to install hd flooring, jatoba. We were quoted $4.99 for it, $1.70 for installation and $3.60 for oak hardwood. When we got a home with both samples, we noticed that Jatoba is thinner, probably 1/2 inch, and the tongue and groove are almost non existent. My niece tested out its hardness by punching holes in both of them. The Jatoba was easier to put a dent. Does it mean that the wood is not of a good quality?

The "warden" http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-047.gif

$4.99 for the Jatoba with installation?? The 1/2" jatoba is a 'garbage' product, go for 3/4" thickness. Jatoba is a lot harder than oak but finish determines the quality of wood tendency for damage. So this shows that the finish quality on the sample you got was not that great.

What is the reason you picked jatoba?

[patrob]

I nominated this thread for Most Helpful Thread in the RFD Member Awards. I find it gives us a lot of info and knowledge with patrob spending a lot of time here and always giving timely and informative responses. Good luck!

Thank you http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif

[branat]

The "warden" http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-047.gif

$4.99 for the Jatoba with installation?? The 1/2" jatoba is a 'garbage' product, go for 3/4" thickness. Jatoba is a lot harder than oak but finish determines the quality of wood tendency for damage. So this shows that the finish quality on the sample you got was not that great.

What is the reason you picked jatoba?

I phoned and left her a msg about Jatoba's tendency to crack and that it may not be a good idea to go with it. Originally, she wanted the Jatoba because it's the "king of wood" and it matched the cabinets. She went with oak instead because the combined products will be too red for the house. She managed to get the installation rate down $1.50 or 1.60 per square feet and oak is around $3.60. In exchange, she agreed to have the shop owner to take photos of our house for demonstation. If we're happy with the work, we will recommend our sister to him, and we may do the upper floor with him as well.

[MMMM]

Petrob:

I am looking to reno a house and have been offered Indonesian hardwood for 4.00 sqft. Solid prefinished 3/4" and it looks great. Slightly darker than Brazilian Cherry.

Are there are any issues with this type of wood I need to know about? I have read numerous eco issues about the wood and the fact alot of Idonesian hardwood was sold illegaly to the US/Can market.

[patrob]

I phoned and left her a msg about Jatoba's tendency to crack and that it may not be a good idea to go with it. Originally, she wanted the Jatoba because it's the "king of wood" and it matched the cabinets. She went with oak instead because the combined products will be too red for the house. She managed to get the installation rate down $1.50 or 1.60 per square feet and oak is around $3.60. In exchange, she agreed to have the shop owner to take photos of our house for demonstation. If we're happy with the work, we will recommend our sister to him, and we may do the upper floor with him as well.

$3.60 for oak ? I don't think it's a North American product. And Jatoba is not a "king of wood", it's over marketed, believe me it's nothing special.

[patrob]

I am looking to reno a house and have been offered Indonesian hardwood for 4.00 sqft. Solid prefinished 3/4" and it looks great. Slightly darker than Brazilian Cherry.

Are there are any issues with this type of wood I need to know about? I have read numerous eco issues about the wood and the fact alot of Idonesian hardwood was sold illegaly to the US/Can market.

Indonesian, what species? There is some Goodfellow made in Indonesia & it's not bad but I think it's more than $4 sq. ft. The only thing that I would be worried about is the quality of finish & milling. Canadian flooring products are setting the standards for the world flooring manufacturers because of their quality & care.

[nelcotte]

Hi Patrob,

Well done on this thread - you're invaluable.

I've recently seen some hardwood at (dare I say it) Home depot. It's a fairly dark brown stained maple with a finish that's really low gloss. Actually it kind of has the texture of brushed aluminum if you know what I mean. It's not just a smooth low gloss finish, but it has a bit of texture to it. Anyway the brand is Privilege and it's made in Canada (for Home Depot) and is 3-1/4 by 3/4. It's exactly the style we want (dark brown maple) and the price is attractive at 3.80 per sq ft. My contractor will be doing the install and at this price it's about 1/2 of my allowance of $7. I'm looking to economize where I can.
Anyway - can you comment on what are likely to be the downsides of a product like this that seems to be inexpensive for what it is? Is ~$4 per square foot a decent price for low gloss maple? The one box they had open looked like there weren't any knots or checks and the finish seemed pretty hard (not like I keyed it or anyhting, but the texture looked like it wouldn't show scratches like a smooth low gloss). The longest pieces I saw were about 5' long and the shortest about 12".
What should I be looking for as a comparison to something like a Vintage product? Are there problems I would expect down the road from a less expensive hardwood that I wouldn't see in a more expensive product?
Thanks in advance
Dave

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Well done on this thread - you're invaluable.

I've recently seen some hardwood at (dare I say it) Home depot. It's a fairly dark brown stained maple with a finish that's really low gloss. Actually it kind of has the texture of brushed aluminum if you know what I mean. It's not just a smooth low gloss finish, but it has a bit of texture to it. Anyway the brand is Privilege and it's made in Canada (for Home Depot) and is 3-1/4 by 3/4. It's exactly the style we want (dark brown maple) and the price is attractive at 3.80 per sq ft. My contractor will be doing the install and at this price it's about 1/2 of my allowance of $7. I'm looking to economize where I can.
Anyway - can you comment on what are likely to be the downsides of a product like this that seems to be inexpensive for what it is? Is ~$4 per square foot a decent price for low gloss maple? The one box they had open looked like there weren't any knots or checks and the finish seemed pretty hard (not like I keyed it or anyhting, but the texture looked like it wouldn't show scratches like a smooth low gloss). The longest pieces I saw were about 5' long and the shortest about 12".
What should I be looking for as a comparison to something like a Vintage product? Are there problems I would expect down the road from a less expensive hardwood that I wouldn't see in a more expensive product?
Thanks in advance
Dave

$3.80 sq. ft. seems too low for a Canadian product. A lot of products at that price at HD, Rona, etc. are imported by a Canadian company but the origin of wood is from far, far away :|
Sure the price is low but that's all I can really say about it. IMO only comparable product to Vintage is Mirage, Lauzon & some others. You can't judge the quality of finish just by looking at it or hitting it with a hammer :lol:

Quality of finish is the most important part of your hardwood floors. How does it scratch (do you see a white line?) or does it scratch with a dent. Possibility of peeling & what kind of finish is used (aluminum oxide) How many coats, UV cured, how are the coats applied, with sanding in between, sprayed or rolled on... That's why companies like Vintage are above others with the quality.

Hope this helps :)

[nelcotte]

Thanks Patrob

I was skeptical at the price too.
This says made in Canada on the box and stamped on the bottom of the planks. The machining looked good, but I'm not sure how one would assess good vs bad - I couldn't see any warping/cupping/bowing.
As you say, I suspected that the finish is really the distinguishing aspect. Google-ing this "brand" turns up nothing so there's no way to really know how they finish them - probably best to avoid it.
What would you consider a good price for Vintage/Mirage/Lauzon 3-1/4 x 3/4 maple?
Thanks again.
Dave

[patrob]

Thanks Patrob

I was skeptical at the price too.
This says made in Canada on the box and stamped on the bottom of the planks. The machining looked good, but I'm not sure how one would assess good vs bad - I couldn't see any warping/cupping/bowing.
As you say, I suspected that the finish is really the distinguishing aspect. Google-ing this "brand" turns up nothing so there's no way to really know how they finish them - probably best to avoid it.
What would you consider a good price for Vintage/Mirage/Lauzon 3-1/4 x 3/4 maple?
Thanks again.
Dave

I will try to get you some prices on Vintage in about 1 week, as we are leaving tomorrow for 1 week vacation with no internet access >:( :D I will PM you when I get back. In the mean time, check out the Vintage maple in Rembrant or Godiva colours, a beautiful dark brown :)

[nelcotte]

patrob,

Thanks - I'll check them out.
Have a great vacation (well deserved, no doubt) - you're so active on this forum, it must seem like a full time job unto itself.

Dave

[nelcotte]

Oh
I forgot one more thing...the boss wants as wide a plank as we can get (within the budget). We both love the look of the 4-5" widths.
I was told bya sales guy that over 3-1/4 width in maple is not recommended due to increased tendency of cupping and bowing.
Is this just sales talk for "we don't offer this product in larger than 3-1/4 width" or is there truth to this?
Thanks
Dave

[patrob]

patrob,

Thanks - I'll check them out.
Have a great vacation (well deserved, no doubt) - you're so active on this forum, it must seem like a full time job unto itself.

Dave

We sure will :)

Oh
I forgot one more thing...the boss wants as wide a plank as we can get (within the budget). We both love the look of the 4-5" widths.
I was told bya sales guy that over 3-1/4 width in maple is not recommended due to increased tendency of cupping and bowing.
Is this just sales talk for "we don't offer this product in larger than 3-1/4 width" or is there truth to this?
Thanks
Dave

Every size of solid wood caps if humidity is high. On 4" it shows more than 2 1/4" or 3 1/4" but a simple AC or de-humidifier resolves the problem. And the capping is not 1/4" on both sides or something you will trip on. It's only a minor variation. Everybody is so paranoid about wood contracting & expanding, but in this climate it's nothing to worry about, it did happen, it is happening & it will always be happening. Unless you go with Vintage engineered wood which comes in 3 1/2" & 5 1/2" width, it is more stable but a bit more money.

[Ryan]

This thread is a finalist for the Most Helpful Thread of the Year! If you think it should win, be sure to vote here:


http://images.redflagdeals.com/rfdimages/promos/readerappreciation2008/badgeMostHelpfulThread.png (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605749)

[chucker]

Recently bought a house (around 20 years old with carpet in both stories). We plan to replace the carpet with hard maple (3-1/4 plank). So far the process is quite frustrating - many brands, prices and few valuable information on comparison. Found the forum and read most posts. Very helpful. Would appreciate if someone can help with the following questions.

a) Mirage/Vintage looks the way to go (quality-wise). Is there anyone who has experience with the following brands: Muskoka/Tembec, Appalachian and Starwood. They look nice and less expensive but don't know how their quality stands.

b) Can anyone recommend a Mirage/Vintage store for reasonable h/w and installation price?

c) Can anyone give a balk estimation for Mirage (~ 2000 SQF), including everything such as h/w, installation, tax, 1/4 round trim etc.

[jimgiggles]

Where is the cheapest place to buy the wax paperunderlay? Im in the Brampton area.

[Lifesaver]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in here. After the installers finished installing the floors, there seems to be some residue left on the floor (spots of glue?) How do I get this off without damaging the floors. What do you recommend I use to heavy clean the floors every year. I plan on swiffering and vaccuming in most of the time.

[Shojin]

Stan's Flooring is going out of business! *gasp* :eek:

Anyone know of any other good retailers in Mississauga that carries Mirage hardwood?

[Daboss]

Patrob, my supplier is trying to sell me some exotic wood called "Chanul" claiming that it is superior to Jatoba...have you ever heard of this species? I can't seem to turn up much on it. Any advice would be great!

[patrob]

This thread is a finalist for the Most Helpful Thread of the Year! If you think it should win, be sure to vote here:


http://images.redflagdeals.com/rfdimages/promos/readerappreciation2008/badgeMostHelpfulThread.png (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605749)

:razz: It's an honour to be nominated & I thank everyone for their support & vote ;)

[patrob]

Where is the cheapest place to buy the wax paperunderlay? Im in the Brampton area.

Try Brampton Flooring.

[patrob]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in here. After the installers finished installing the floors, there seems to be some residue left on the floor (spots of glue?) How do I get this off without damaging the floors. What do you recommend I use to heavy clean the floors every year. I plan on swiffering and vaccuming in most of the time.

Depends what glue was used? If wood glue, use soft cloth with water. If PL was used, then that's PITA to remove :D

For cleaning hardwood floors, get a hardwood cleaning kit from a hardwood store. Spray the solution on the cloth not the floor. Dry "swiffer" is ok but don't use the wet "swiffer", it leaves a film behind.

[patrob]

Recently bought a house (around 20 years old with carpet in both stories). We plan to replace the carpet with hard maple (3-1/4 plank). So far the process is quite frustrating - many brands, prices and few valuable information on comparison. Found the forum and read most posts. Very helpful. Would appreciate if someone can help with the following questions.

a) Mirage/Vintage looks the way to go (quality-wise). Is there anyone who has experience with the following brands: Muskoka/Tembec, Appalachian and Starwood. They look nice and less expensive but don't know how their quality stands.

b) Can anyone recommend a Mirage/Vintage store for reasonable h/w and installation price?

c) Can anyone give a balk estimation for Mirage (~ 2000 SQF), including everything such as h/w, installation, tax, 1/4 round trim etc.

Go for Vintage. Sure other brands might be a bit cheaper but you're only installing it once, so pay that little bit more & you will not regret it.

I will send you a PM reg. supply & install :)

[patrob]

Stan's Flooring is going out of business! *gasp* :eek:

Anyone know of any other good retailers in Mississauga that carries Mirage hardwood?

Yes, that's very sad indeed :( They have been around for a very long time...

If you want Mirage, call the diff. dealers in Miss. If you need an installer, let me know ;)

[patrob]

Patrob, my supplier is trying to sell me some exotic wood called "Chanul" claiming that it is superior to Jatoba...have you ever heard of this species? I can't seem to turn up much on it. Any advice would be great!

It's not a very popular species of wood but it does exist & it looks like it has a similar hardness to jatoba. But that's all I can really say about it.

[irisray]

Hi Patrob:

Good luck on the best thread nomination. You've been so helpful and informative; you deserve to win! Also, thank you, and hubby, for your help recently.

I'm considering Torlys Summit (oak vintage java) or Vintage (stained maple). Have you ever seen the Torlys colour laid? I'm wondering if it will look like one flat, dark surface, or nice and elegant. On the sample board, there wasn't much (any) colour definition between planks, unlike other stained samples I've seen - so I don't know if they were all cut from one plank, or if that's just the way it'll look.

I like the Toryls colour, but prefer Vintage's semi-gloss finish. Do you know if Vintage makes a colour close to the oak java? One store told me they won't lay Vintage as a floating floor, that it wasn't meant to be used that way. Vintage's website says it can be floated. Is there a problem with floating it?

If I can't find a similar colour in Vintage, will the Torlys be a long lasting, decent product?

Thank you.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Good luck on the best thread nomination. You've been so helpful and informative; you deserve to win! Also, thank you, and hubby, for your help recently.

I'm considering Torlys Summit (oak vintage java) or Vintage (stained maple). Have you ever seen the Torlys colour laid? I'm wondering if it will look like one flat, dark surface, or nice and elegant. On the sample board, there wasn't much (any) colour definition between planks, unlike other stained samples I've seen - so I don't know if they were all cut from one plank, or if that's just the way it'll look.

I like the Toryls colour, but prefer Vintage's semi-gloss finish. Do you know if Vintage makes a colour close to the oak java? One store told me they won't lay Vintage as a floating floor, that it wasn't meant to be used that way. Vintage's website says it can be floated. Is there a problem with floating it?

If I can't find a similar colour in Vintage, will the Torlys be a long lasting, decent product?

Thank you.

Thanks for the support :)

Vintage engineered was made especially for floating purposes in condos especially.

So whoever told you that it can't be floated, they are wrong. If you are looking into higher end Torlys product, I would choose Vintage eng. over Torlys. Vintage engineered is a single plank & looks exactly as regular hardwood. Looking at the Torlys colour, yes you can easily choose something from Vintage line in a similar colour.

IMO Torlys is the best for laminates but if you want real hardwood, go with Vintage.

[irisray]

Thanks for the support :)

Vintage engineered was made especially for floating purposes in condos especially.

So whoever told you that it can't be floated, they are wrong. If you are looking into higher end Torlys product, I would choose Vintage eng. over Torlys. Vintage engineered is a single plank & looks exactly as regular hardwood. Looking at the Torlys colour, yes you can easily choose something from Vintage line in a similar colour.

IMO Torlys is the best for laminates but if you want real hardwood, go with Vintage.


Thanks, Patrob. I've had a hard time finding a colour that looks nice with my furniture (mostly mahagony). A lot have yellow or reddish/pink undertones which don't go well.

Isn't Summit real hardwood? Will it hold up over the years? Depending on the difference in cost between Torlys and Vintage, I may have to go with Toryls. I'll revisit the Vintage as I hadn't focused on oak when I'd looked earlier.

[sabrinajinmi]

Go for Vintage. Sure other brands might be a bit cheaper but you're only installing it once, so pay that little bit more & you will not regret it.

I will send you a PM reg. supply & install :)

Hi, patrob, We have similar questions:

We are planning to replace the carpet with hardwood in both stories (We probably will DIY exept the stairs). I have measured the room, the total size is up to 1850 SQF including 13 stairs.

So far we are still hunting for the hardwood floor. So my questions are:

1) The house was built around 1992, under the carpet is OSB (I assume it is 3/4 thick, will double check it), so should we add one layer of plywood before installing hardwood flr?

2) Same question: can you recommend a Mirage/Vintage store for reasonable h/w and installation price?

3) Also can you give a balk estimation for Mirage or Vintage (~ 2000 SQF), including everything such as h/w, installation, tax, 1/4 round trim etc. Do you recommend any professionals to do the job (not sure if we can handle the whole project, but we can do carpet removal, for instance, to save the cost) by the way, the house is in Richmood Hill.

4) Also we can only get the house key on July 30, probably ship the hardwood flr at the next day. So can we start the installation on the long weekend of Aug (Aug 2-4）right away? Or we have to wait one week to start? (Let the hd floor to adapt the humidity in the house?)


Thanks.

[patrob]

Thanks, Patrob. I've had a hard time finding a colour that looks nice with my furniture (mostly mahagony). A lot have yellow or reddish/pink undertones which don't go well.

Isn't Summit real hardwood? Will it hold up over the years? Depending on the difference in cost between Torlys and Vintage, I may have to go with Toryls. I'll revisit the Vintage as I hadn't focused on oak when I'd looked earlier.

They are both engineered with plywood or multilayer base with veneer on top. In which case Vintage is a bit thicker & has a smaller bevel & IMO looks more rich & classic.

[patrob]

Hi, patrob, We have similar questions:

We are planning to replace the carpet with hardwood in both stories (We probably will DIY exept the stairs). I have measured the room, the total size is up to 1850 SQF including 13 stairs.

So far we are still hunting for the hardwood floor. So my questions are:

1) The house was built around 1992, under the carpet is OSB (I assume it is 3/4 thick, will double check it), so should we add one layer of plywood before installing hardwood flr?

2) Same question: can you recommend a Mirage/Vintage store for reasonable h/w and installation price?

3) Also can you give a balk estimation for Mirage or Vintage (~ 2000 SQF), including everything such as h/w, installation, tax, 1/4 round trim etc. Do you recommend any professionals to do the job (not sure if we can handle the whole project, but we can do carpet removal, for instance, to save the cost) by the way, the house is in Richmood Hill.

4) Also we can only get the house key on July 30, probably ship the hardwood flr at the next day. So can we start the installation on the long weekend of Aug (Aug 2-4）right away? Or we have to wait one week to start? (Let the hd floor to adapt the humidity in the house?)

Thanks.

You should be OK without adding an extra layer of plywood but it depends on its condition. Yes you can do the carpet removal yourself to save on the cost. I will PM you the rest ;)

[Hugh Jass]

Firstly, let me thank you for the best thread I have ever read on RFD. I have read every word of it and am now a heck of a lot wiser about flooring.

Secondly, it took about 30 pages to realise you were a she, sorry, presumptions, presumptions.

Thirdly, there's about 650 posts in this thread, of which I presume about half are yours, that leaves over 300, so it must be at least 150 people you have given free advice to, not to mention lurkers/readers like me that have benefitted from this great thread. So..............

[Ramark]

Hi Patrob!
I will be attempting to stain our oak stairs in a week or so, on my own :o and would love some advice!!
If its not too much trouble, would you mind giving me a complete list of what i'll be needing to complete this daunting task?? Down to the grade of sandpaper, and i've read that you need water to "season" the wood right before staining?
Please!!! I've been searching the threads and online, but it still leaves me many details to be desired! :confused:

Thanks so much for any help you can offer! :lol:

[sabrinajinmi]

Firstly, let me thank you for the best thread I have ever read on RFD. I have read every word of it and am now a heck of a lot wiser about flooring.

Secondly, it took about 30 pages to realise you were a she, sorry, presumptions, presumptions.

Thirdly, there's about 650 posts in this thread, of which I presume about half are yours, that leaves over 300, so it must be at least 150 people you have given free advice to, not to mention lurkers/readers like me that have benefitted from this great thread. So..............

.......how come only 26 people have voted this as the best thread of the year?

C'mon people, if you've gained anything from this thread, VOTE NOW !!!!!!!!!!!

CLICK HERE TO VOTE:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605749


Just voted.

[irisray]

They are both engineered with plywood or multilayer base with veneer on top. In which case Vintage is a bit thicker & has a smaller bevel & IMO looks more rich & classic.

Hi Patrob:

I absolutely agree with you that the Vintage looks richer but based on finances, it'll have to be the Toryls.

In a quote I was given, about $600 was charged for boxing in a ledge by my balcony doors. Since on the other 2 walls, the wall colour goes right down to the floor, it'd be more uniform if this one did too. I thought I'd try smoothing out the concrete (with compound?) and painting it the wall colour. I'm including a picture. I've already removed the smoothedge. Could 1/4 round be attached to the lower band of wood that's in the concrete, or to concrete itself, and the floor go under it instead of boxing the whole thing in and having the wood go up the wall (didn't like that look when it was carpet either).

http://community.webshots.com/user/iris2003ray?vhost=community

[patrob]

Hi Patrob!
I will be attempting to stain our oak stairs in a week or so, on my own :o and would love some advice!!
If its not too much trouble, would you mind giving me a complete list of what i'll be needing to complete this daunting task?? Down to the grade of sandpaper, and i've read that you need water to "season" the wood right before staining?
Please!!! I've been searching the threads and online, but it still leaves me many details to be desired! :confused:

Thanks so much for any help you can offer! :lol:

Are you staining fresh stairs or re-sanding? What about your pickets?

[patrob]

Firstly, let me thank you for the best thread I have ever read on RFD. I have read every word of it and am now a heck of a lot wiser about flooring.

Secondly, it took about 30 pages to realise you were a she, sorry, presumptions, presumptions.

Thirdly, there's about 650 posts in this thread, of which I presume about half are yours, that leaves over 300, so it must be at least 150 people you have given free advice to, not to mention lurkers/readers like me that have benefitted from this great thread. So..............

.......how come only 26 people have voted this as the best thread of the year?

C'mon people, if you've gained anything from this thread, VOTE NOW !!!!!!!!!!!

CLICK HERE TO VOTE:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605749

:D Yes I am a she ;) I know quite a bit about flooring but the "harder" stuff still goes to my husband :lol:

Thanks for the support & vote :razz:

[Ramark]

Are you staining fresh stairs or re-sanding? What about your pickets?

Hi Patrob!
Its a brand new, unfinished staircase with wood pickets.
(I'd attach a picture, but not sure how! :confused: ... asking for a URL )

Thanks for your help! :cheesygri

[patrob]

Hi Patrob!
Its a brand new, unfinished staircase with wood pickets.
(I'd attach a picture, but not sure how! :confused: ... asking for a URL )

Thanks for your help! :cheesygri

It's a lot easier with an unfinished staircase.

1. Tape all the walls, cover your floors surrounding your staircase, pickets, nosings, handrails, posts, etc...
2. Check for any staples, unpunched nails, if any remove or punch it in.
3. With 120 grid sand paper, sand the stairs, edges, mouldings, handrail, pickets & everything else slightly. Always with the grain.
4. On stair threads, you can use orbital (palm) sander but after that still run with the grain by hand.
5. Some fill nail holes before sanding with wood filler & others do it before varnish after stain with coloured wood filler (to match your stain) I prefer to do it before sanding & stain.
6. Vacuum thoroughly before stain.
7. Apply stain according to directions on the can (use a soft brush, wait couple minutes, rub off excessive stain with cloth) If working with good stain, wood will absorb only the amount of stain it can. Do not re-apply the stain. Start staining from upstairs down.
8. Let the stain dry for min. of 12 hours in well ventilated area.
9. Once dry, apply the 1st coat of varnish (if working with oil based stain, preferably work with oil based varnish & same the other way for water based)
10. Allow to dry completely before applying 2nd coat, sand slightly between coats with IMO 200 grid or smoother just to take the imperfections off.
It's up to you how many coats of varnish you apply but min 2 preferably 3 coats. But remember to sand & vacuum between each coat.

It's a dirty, time taking job & tedious but with great results.

Good luck & post some pics once you're done :D

[Kate M]

Well, it looks like I need another recommendation for a hardwood floor installer! In June we visited Darmaga, had them come out to the house for an estimate, and left a deposit of 6k for the job.

Last week I called Darmaga because I wanted to be sure I was on the calendar and the supplies were ordered. Um, not so much: they've lost my file, have no record of my deposit, and can't find my estimate! I call Nancy in the office, she says, hold on, I'll call you back in a few minutes, and then...six hours pass. I call back again. She says, hold on, I'll call you back in a few minutes....two hours pass, the shop closes, everyone goes home. Rinse, lather, and repeat for almost a week.

Today when I call she says, I still can't find your file, but I know who you are! You're that $500 repair job in a sub-division. No, I say. I am a $12,000 job. New floors throughout the house. She says "Oh, I had no idea." GREAT. So she asks me if I will fax back the estimate they gave me so they can recreate my file. I say, yes, I'd be happy to, but I need to receive a discount on the job -- the customer service so far has been dreadful and I can't go forward with this job without a discount. She says she'll have the boss call me.

The boss calls, he hears the tale of woe with the lost file and the mistaken identity and mystery deposit (they took the information but then lost it; it was never charged to my credit card) and the poor treatment from the office manager and then we get down to discussing a discount and he says he won't do it, it's blackmail, I'm free to find another installer. We're closing on this house in less than a month and now I've got to find someone, get an estimate (this involves calling them, calling our real estate agent so can arrange an appointment with the current owners of the house, and getting off work) and order supplies (six week lead time? WAIT, WE DON'T HAVE SIX WEEKS). I'm angry that they've dropped me rather than giving a small (and frankly WELL DESERVED) discount for terrible customer service.

So. Question: who to go with now?

(Don't say Darmaga or flames will shoot out of my eyes.)

[patrob]

Well, it looks like I need another recommendation for a hardwood floor installer! In June we visited Darmaga, had them come out to the house for an estimate, and left a deposit of 6k for the job.

Last week I called Darmaga because I wanted to be sure I was on the calendar and the supplies were ordered. Um, not so much: they've lost my file, have no record of my deposit, and can't find my estimate! I call Nancy in the office, she says, hold on, I'll call you back in a few minutes, and then...six hours pass. I call back again. She says, hold on, I'll call you back in a few minutes....two hours pass, the shop closes, everyone goes home. Rinse, lather, and repeat for almost a week.

Today when I call she says, I still can't find your file, but I know who you are! You're that $500 repair job in a sub-division. No, I say. I am a $12,000 job. New floors throughout the house. She says "Oh, I had no idea." GREAT. So she asks me if I will fax back the estimate they gave me so they can recreate my file. I say, yes, I'd be happy to, but I need to receive a discount on the job -- the customer service so far has been dreadful and I can't go forward with this job without a discount. She says she'll have the boss call me.

The boss calls, he hears the tale of woe with the lost file and the mistaken identity and mystery deposit (they took the information but then lost it; it was never charged to my credit card) and the poor treatment from the office manager and then we get down to discussing a discount and he says he won't do it, it's blackmail, I'm free to find another installer. We're closing on this house in less than a month and now I've got to find someone, get an estimate (this involves calling them, calling our real estate agent so can arrange an appointment with the current owners of the house, and getting off work) and order supplies (six week lead time? WAIT, WE DON'T HAVE SIX WEEKS). I'm angry that they've dropped me rather than giving a small (and frankly WELL DESERVED) discount for terrible customer service.

So. Question: who to go with now?

(Don't say Darmaga or flames will shoot out of my eyes.)

:eek: I agree they should have offered you something for the screw up.

Maybe the lost file was an excuse to get out of the job :|, maybe they realized they mis-quoted you. I will PM you.

[Ramark]

It's a lot easier with an unfinished staircase.

1. Tape all the walls, cover your floors surrounding your staircase, pickets, nosings, handrails, posts, etc...
2. Check for any staples, unpunched nails, if any remove or punch it in.
3. With 120 grid sand paper, sand the stairs, edges, mouldings, handrail, pickets & everything else slightly. Always with the grain.
4. On stair threads, you can use orbital (palm) sander but after that still run with the grain by hand.
5. Some fill nail holes before sanding with wood filler & others do it before varnish after stain with coloured wood filler (to match your stain) I prefer to do it before sanding & stain.
6. Vacuum thoroughly before stain.
7. Apply stain according to directions on the can (use a soft brush, wait couple minutes, rub off excessive stain with cloth) If working with good stain, wood will absorb only the amount of stain it can. Do not re-apply the stain. Start staining from upstairs down.
8. Let the stain dry for min. of 12 hours in well ventilated area.
9. Once dry, apply the 1st coat of varnish (if working with oil based stain, preferably work with oil based varnish & same the other way for water based)
10. Allow to dry completely before applying 2nd coat, sand slightly between coats with IMO 200 grid or smoother just to take the imperfections off.
It's up to you how many coats of varnish you apply but min 2 preferably 3 coats. But remember to sand & vacuum between each coat.

It's a dirty, time taking job & tedious but with great results.

Good luck & post some pics once you're done :D

Thanks Patrob! I'll let you know how it goes :o

[Rexie]

Two Questions:

1) I have a main floor where my house joists run north-south at the back of the house while at the front of house the joists run east-west. I intend to install hardwood in both areas, which meet at a 3 -4 ft wide opening where the main hallway/thoroughfare meets the back end of the house . What should I do where the two floors meet to avoid expansion issues?


2) We have narrowed our flooring search to a red oak wood from either Satin Finish (Regency Plank), Superior Flooring/Herwynen Saw Mill (Select & Better Grade), and/or Vintage [Estate or Vintage]. Can you compare these brands and what price range one might expect ? Any recommended dealers in the Durham Region area?

[patrob]

Two Questions:

1) I have a main floor where my house joists run north-south at the back of the house while at the front of house the joists run east-west. I intend to install hardwood in both areas, which meet at a 3 -4 ft wide opening where the main hallway/thoroughfare meets the back end of the house . What should I do where the two floors meet to avoid expansion issues?


2) We have narrowed our flooring search to a red oak wood from either Satin Finish (Regency Plank), Superior Flooring/Herwynen Saw Mill (Select & Better Grade), and/or Vintage [Estate or Vintage]. Can you compare these brands and what price range one might expect ? Any recommended dealers in the Durham Region area?

1) It would be easier if you can send me your floor plan (if you have) or a sketch showing where the joist direction changes. Then I can advise you further.

2) Def. will say go with Vintage! I can PM you some prices if you want but you need to tell me the width & colour.

[Rexie]

1) It would be easier if you can send me your floor plan (if you have) or a sketch showing where the joist direction changes. Then I can advise you further.

2) Def. will say go with Vintage! I can PM you some prices if you want but you need to tell me the width & colour.



1) Floor plan is at http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5235/mainfloorxp6.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mainfloorxp6.jpg)

The plan is to put hardwood in the living room, dining room, office, and family room. The joists for the kitchen and family room run left to right while the rest of the house is top to bottom. The two hardwood floors would interface at the opening between the family room and the dining room/living room area (kitchen would remain tiled).

2) We were looking for 3" (nominal). In Vintage we have a sample called "Duchess" in ash. I don't see that colour on the Vintage web site but it's a not-too-dark brown, probably closest to Mocha or Carriage House Red Oak on their web site http://www.vintageflooring.com/colorsp.html .


Thanks a bunch!

[hammer]

Are these new floors with titanium coating worth it?

[patrob]

1) Floor plan is at http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5235/mainfloorxp6.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mainfloorxp6.jpg)

The plan is to put hardwood in the living room, dining room, office, and family room. The joists for the kitchen and family room run left to right while the rest of the house is top to bottom. The two hardwood floors would interface at the opening between the family room and the dining room/living room area (kitchen would remain tiled).

2) We were looking for 3" (nominal). In Vintage we have a sample called "Duchess" in ash. I don't see that colour on the Vintage web site but it's a not-too-dark brown, probably closest to Mocha or Carriage House Red Oak on their web site http://www.vintageflooring.com/colorsp.html .

Thanks a bunch!
You have to run the floors across the joist. From what you said, living, dining, office will be installed from left to right & family room front to back. Or you can run everything on diagonal & keep everything in the same direction. But the installation cost is higher for diagonal. If you decide on diagonal, run it with the angle to the left it will open up the room.

I have not seen that colour yet, must be new. I can check some prices & let you know :)

[patrob]

Are these new floors with titanium coating worth it?

Titanium (Melrose you mean?), aluminum oxide, etc...are very worth it. The finish is a lot stronger & more resistant to damage. Also the finish is a lot clearer with a little bit of sparkle.

[Hugh Jass]

OK, I've finally got a question. I will be doing laminate in the basement in a months time. After asking various people their advice about installation, most people say I can put the laminate on the concrete with a 3in1 underlay. One or two people insist that I need to put a plywood subfloor.

Your opinion?

Thanks.

[patrob]

OK, I've finally got a question. I will be doing laminate in the basement in a months time. After asking various people their advice about installation, most people say I can put the laminate on the concrete with a 3in1 underlay. One or two people insist that I need to put a plywood subfloor.

Your opinion?

Thanks.

3-in-1 underlay is just fine. Make sure you prepare it to the manufacturer specs & if you need plywood sub-floor, it will say on the instructions. Laminates were designed to install right over concrete. The sub-floor is only if you want to & are willing to spend a lot more money.

[alex76]

Hi Patrob,

First, I would like to thank you for this wonderful thread..
I would like to ask for advice regarding the type of hardwood flooring. I am considering changing 3 types of flooring that I currently have ( vinyl in kitchen, hardwood in family and carpet in dining & living ) to make all hardwood flooring. I was considering Maple Natural color select & better since I like the colour and I need light color to match kitchen which is cherry red...Would you recommend something better than maple in terms of scratch resistance and close to that natural color?

Thanks in advance,

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

First, I would like to thank you for this wonderful thread..
I would like to ask for advice regarding the type of hardwood flooring. I am considering changing 3 types of flooring that I currently have ( vinyl in kitchen, hardwood in family and carpet in dining & living ) to make all hardwood flooring. I was considering Maple Natural color select & better since I like the colour and I need light color to match kitchen which is cherry red...Would you recommend something better than maple in terms of scratch resistance and close to that natural color?

Thanks in advance,

You want to match your kitchen which is cherry red with natural maple :confused:
It's not really matching. Natural maple with cherry red cabinets will give you a more modern look. But in terms of durability, especially if you want the smooth, grainless look, there is nothing else that looks like maple.

Here is a link to a virtual decorator, click on "create your floor design now", have fun :D
http://www.miragefloors.com/floors/decor-simulator.html

[alex76]

Thanks for the link..The house is open concept with family open to kitchen...cabnets are dark red cherry and I have dark couch in family room...I know that you do not advice to have hardwood in kitchen, but it would look so much better since its open to family. My concern is that natural maple select & better is not among the strongest of durability when it comes to scratches and its not cheap...I do not want to invest in it and regret it later and I am concerned If I go with something cheaper like Birch that it would be a bad choice
W

[Hugh Jass]

FWIW Alex, we have hardwood covering our hallway and kitchen and we love it.

I personally think hardwood in the kitchen gives your house a very homely feel.

Here's our kitchen:

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/6669/16285333zb7.jpg

[patrob]

Thanks for the link..The house is open concept with family open to kitchen...cabnets are dark red cherry and I have dark couch in family room...I know that you do not advice to have hardwood in kitchen, but it would look so much better since its open to family. My concern is that natural maple select & better is not among the strongest of durability when it comes to scratches and its not cheap...I do not want to invest in it and regret it later and I am concerned If I go with something cheaper like Birch that it would be a bad choice
W

Even if you go with maple, birch, oak, etc., the price doesn't matter that much. Choose the wood that you like, not what is cheaper. If you really want the wood in the kitchen (even though I do not advise it personally) just do it. It does have its look & as long as you are aware of the potential for higher wear & tear/damage, you will maintain it properly & be more careful, then you should be fine.

I also prefer maple over birch ;)

[synaptech]

Hi Patrob

Perhaps you recall I had my floors refinished. I like the job, but there was a random cracking noise that we could not identify. Well recently we found it -- see picture. A board is splitting like it is being compressed which I think is a result of the wood being improperly re-installed (boards flipped here).

The contractor came by today and after a discussion explaining that this was not a section he flipped, and even if it was, it is a void in the wood that is appearing now due to sanding etc. After some cursory instructions on how I should fix it, he actually told me to take the issue with the wood up with god.

On some level I can accept the wood being flawed, but "voids" in oak? I get the feeling he sees it as too small a job to bother fixing and I have 0 leverage as he's been long paid. Any suggestion?

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3307/takeitupwithgodcg9.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=takeitupwithgodcg9.jpg)

[patrob]

Hi Patrob

Perhaps you recall I had my floors refinished. I like the job, but there was a random cracking noise that we could not identify. Well recently we found it -- see picture. A board is splitting like it is being compressed which I think is a result of the wood being improperly re-installed (boards flipped here).

The contractor came by today and after a discussion explaining that this was not a section he flipped, and even if it was, it is a void in the wood that is appearing now due to sanding etc. After some cursory instructions on how I should fix it, he actually told me to take the issue with the wood up with god.

On some level I can accept the wood being flawed, but "voids" in oak? I get the feeling he sees it as too small a job to bother fixing and I have 0 leverage as he's been long paid. Any suggestion?

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3307/takeitupwithgodcg9.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=takeitupwithgodcg9.jpg)

From the pic, I guess it is 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" x 3/8" older type strip floor. The voids, you mean the separation between the boards? That is the beauty of older floors. Or is it the cracked board in the middle of the pic, that is lifting slightly up? Maybe the board before was not nailed properly. Over the years, how many times was the floor re-finished already? Maybe the boards are too thin & now with humidity coming & thinner floors, it will expand & even crack more than usual.

To fix it, you might have to replace those 2-3 boards & try to re-sand it in that spot to blend in with the rest. If this is happening now, what will happen in the winter with heat?

[synaptech]

From the pic, I guess it is 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" x 3/8" older type strip floor.

Yes - older.


The voids, you mean the separation between the boards? That is the beauty of older floors. Or is it the cracked board in the middle of the pic, that is lifting slightly up? Maybe the board before was not nailed properly. Over the years, how many times was the floor re-finished already? Maybe the boards are too thin & now with humidity coming & thinner floors, it will expand & even crack more than usual.


By void, he meant a void in the board itself, not between the boards. The crack that is lifting is my concern. Floor had been refinished before.


To fix it, you might have to replace those 2-3 boards & try to re-sand it in that spot to blend in with the rest. If this is happening now, what will happen in the winter with heat?

He suggested I drill some small holes and inject a marine epoxy to stop the cracking. In regard to winter... you're saying this is going to get worse - :eek: worse everywhere?

I have extra wood, hmmm...

[patrob]

Yes - older.

By void, he meant a void in the board itself, not between the boards. The crack that is lifting is my concern. Floor had been refinished before.

He suggested I drill some small holes and inject a marine epoxy to stop the cracking. In regard to winter... you're saying this is going to get worse - :eek: worse everywhere?

I have extra wood, hmmm...
From what I remember, you said the floors were covered with multiple layers of other floor coverings. So for years it's been pretty dry I guess & when you exposed it, it was finished in the winter time, which is also a dry season. So you can say the wood was not climatized, even though it was in the house for so many years. Now with the expansion from humidity, the wood absorbs moisture & lifts in some places. But then when it dries in winter again, it tends to crack when shrinking. Watch your humidity levels & try to keep it as stable as possible in all 4 seasons. Get a de-humidifier if needed in the summer & humidifier in the winter.

Your house is close to 100 yrs. old, so your sub-floor is straight or diagonal boards. The drilling & shooting epoxy more likely will not help. You might literally have an empty spot underneath. But regardless, this would not help. Wood expands & contracts & sometimes boards cracks here & there, so lets hope for the best that it will not happen anymore.

[synaptech]

From what I remember, you said the floors were covered with multiple layers of other floor coverings. So for years it's been pretty dry I guess & when you exposed it, it was finished in the winter time, which is also a dry season. So you can say the wood was not climatized, even though it was in the house for so many years. Now with the expansion from humidity, the wood absorbs moisture & lifts in some places. But then when it dries in winter again, it tends to crack when shrinking. Watch your humidity levels & try to keep it as stable as possible in all 4 seasons. Get a de-humidifier if needed in the summer & humidifier in the winter.

Your house is close to 100 yrs. old, so your sub-floor is straight or diagonal boards. The drilling & shooting epoxy more likely will not help. You might literally have an empty spot underneath. But regardless, this would not help. Wood expands & contracts & sometimes boards cracks here & there, so lets hope for the best that it will not happen anymore.

Thanks patrob. I was looking for a second opinion and it seems that the contractor was honest enough (regardless of his sarcasm). The "unearthed" floor was in another room and so far has been holding up great. The spot here is a higher traffic area that has always been uncovered. The aircon is running in the same room as the crack and a dehumidifier is running in the basement. I'll get a humidity meter.

Thanks

[alex76]

Hi Patrob,

I was concerned about your comment that light color maple might not match the cherry kitchen cabnets...What color options would you recommend? I was concerned with dark colors since it might make house look smaller and because scratches will be more noticable

Nice kitchen you got there Hugh :)

[imaginei]

Patrob, you have no idea how much help you two have been for us.
We are building a new two story home in mid-town Toronto and we have a few (or more) questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1) For our second floor bedrooms - my wife would like to have either pre-finshed oak or ash 3 1/4" - she likes the grain of both of them. Ours is a heavy traffic house so maple is out - could you recommend brands for the oak or ash - can I assume that
Mirage or Vintage are the best? Any idea of what price I'd be looking at for select or better of those two brands?

2) For the living room, dining room and study - I really like the colour of Jatoba. It seems to be such a rich and beautiful colour. I got the feeling from this thread that you aren't thrilled with it. Any input would be appreciated. Is there something similar in colour that you would suggest? If we do go with Jatoba then same questions - what brand is the best and what should I expect to pay for it?

3) Have you heard of the Alegra brand of pre-finished hardwood out of Quebec?
Any comments? They only have one dealer here Can Floors on Steeles West

4) What are the best stores for pre-finished hardwood - we live near Bathurst and 401.

5) In the kitchen - my wife would like to put down something soft - any suggestions
This is a very high traffic room. One store suggested Adura vinyl tiles by Mannington
A friend suggested a commercial tile by Marly. Any comments or suggestions?

6) There will be a playroom in the basement approx 17x14' - my wife does not want carpet or ceramic - any ideas?

Thank you again for all the help you've already given us by this long and generous thread

[lisiuping]

anyone know which glueless system is best?
I heard uniclic, click one, etc.
Are they use the same thing?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

I was concerned about your comment that light color maple might not match the cherry kitchen cabnets...What color options would you recommend? I was concerned with dark colors since it might make house look smaller and because scratches will be more noticable

Nice kitchen you got there Hugh :)

Did you take a look at the decorator link? You can get an idea of what it might look like. It looks nice in both light & dark. Many people have this perception that dark floors make the space look smaller, but not necessarily. You have to go with what you like. Take a look at the link & this will give you a better idea. You can choose the colour of your cabinets & floors. Scratches will be visible in either colour. But grainy woods will hide the scratches better.

[patrob]

Patrob, you have no idea how much help you two have been for us.
We are building a new two story home in mid-town Toronto and we have a few (or more) questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1) For our second floor bedrooms - my wife would like to have either pre-finshed oak or ash 3 1/4" - she likes the grain of both of them. Ours is a heavy traffic house so maple is out - could you recommend brands for the oak or ash - can I assume that
Mirage or Vintage are the best? Any idea of what price I'd be looking at for select or better of those two brands?

2) For the living room, dining room and study - I really like the colour of Jatoba. It seems to be such a rich and beautiful colour. I got the feeling from this thread that you aren't thrilled with it. Any input would be appreciated. Is there something similar in colour that you would suggest? If we do go with Jatoba then same questions - what brand is the best and what should I expect to pay for it?

3) Have you heard of the Alegra brand of pre-finished hardwood out of Quebec?
Any comments? They only have one dealer here Can Floors on Steeles West

4) What are the best stores for pre-finished hardwood - we live near Bathurst and 401.

5) In the kitchen - my wife would like to put down something soft - any suggestions
This is a very high traffic room. One store suggested Adura vinyl tiles by Mannington
A friend suggested a commercial tile by Marly. Any comments or suggestions?

6) There will be a playroom in the basement approx 17x14' - my wife does not want carpet or ceramic - any ideas?

Thank you again for all the help you've already given us by this long and generous thread

1) Even though oak & ash have a similar grain, oak shows less scratches because it has a deeper grain. Ash has a smoother finish. I will say go with Vintage.

2) Natural Jatoba or stained? I am not a fanatic of any exotics, this wood is not for the country, too much fluctuation in humidity. You have to keep your house very steady. Jatoba & some other exotics are so dense (hard), it doesn't cap but it cracks like crazy if humidity drops below 30.

3) I heard about it & what does it tell you if there is only 1 dealer :|

4) I will PM you with some pricing.

5-6) Cork cork & cork. Not a fan of vinyl, prefer to stick to natural products. It comes in natural or stain, in square or rectangular tiles, same goes for the basement. It's great for your feet, warm & looks very good (Torlys is the brand). I posted a pic of a kitchen done in cork tiles a while back, so take a look.

Hope this helps :)

[patrob]

anyone know which glueless system is best?
I heard uniclic, click one, etc.
Are they use the same thing?

Torlys, Quick-step (Uniclic) is the best.

[Kate M]

1) Even though oak & ash have a similar grain, oak shows less scratches because it has a deeper grain. Ash has a smoother finish.

I had no idea! You learn something new every day on the Hardwood Floors thread.

[alex76]

Hi Patrob,

Would you recommend a hardwood store in Ottawa area?

[Shad0w]

How about in the mississauga area?
Im looking for some quality select oak, about 600sq feet.

I dont know if Im so keen on brampton hardwood flooring ... they pushing St Laurence and I dont know much about that manuf.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Would you recommend a hardwood store in Ottawa area?

I will try to find out & will let you know.

How about in the mississauga area?
Im looking for some quality select oak, about 600sq feet.

I dont know if Im so keen on brampton hardwood flooring ... they pushing St Laurence and I dont know much about that manuf.

I am not a fan of BH Flooring & the St. Lawrence product. I can get you some prices on Vintage, will PM you.

[Shad0w]

I will try to find out & will let you know.



I am not a fan of BH Flooring & the St. Lawrence product. I can get you some prices on Vintage, will PM you.


I Patrob, Thanks!!! PM'ed ya back!

[Micky N]

I will try to find out & will let you know.


Hey,
I went through this thread for a long time today and read many of your posts.
Great information posted. I really appreciate. :)

[patrob]

Hi Patrob, Thanks!!! PM'ed ya back!

Check your PM :)

Hey,
I went through this thread for a long time today and read many of your posts.
Great information posted. I really appreciate. :)

Didn't know this thread goes that far :D

Thanks for the feedback :)

[Pesho]

I searched the forum, but wasn't able to find the answers I'm looking for... :(


We are looking to replace the carpet with a hardwood and we liked very much cumaru (Brazilian teak), but we are concerned that it is an exotic wood and we might not get proper service in the future when we will refinish it. I also read that it is not very stable, but I'm not sure what exactly this means. Is it recommended for the climate conditions in GTA?

We were also unable to find any reviews for the supplier - Three Towers Flooring. It looks good that they import, manufacture and install the hardwood, but there is no information about the quality of the hardwood, the installation and the customer support. Any information about them, anyone?

Thank you in advance for your replies! :)

[patrob]

I searched the forum, but wasn't able to find the answers I'm looking for... :(

We are looking to replace the carpet with a hardwood and we liked very much cumaru (Brazilian teak), but we are concerned that it is an exotic wood and we might not get proper service in the future when we will refinish it. I also read that it is not very stable, but I'm not sure what exactly this means. Is it recommended for the climate conditions in GTA?

We were also unable to find any reviews for the supplier - Three Towers Flooring. It looks good that they import, manufacture and install the hardwood, but there is no information about the quality of the hardwood, the installation and the customer support. Any information about them, anyone?

Thank you in advance for your replies! :)
I already tried to find info for somebody else on 3 Towers but was unable to.

Regarding the cumaru, it's similar to jatoba. Sometimes people were cheated by sellers with cumaru instead of jatoba, because it's so similar. What I meant with exotics being unstable is that if the humidity levels are not kept perfect, then you can have problems like cracking. But if you really like it & make sure you have a humidifier & use AC in the summer, you should be fine.
But I still prefer domestic species for our climate.

[Pesho]

Thank you patrob!

I saw your previous answer about Three Towers, but I was hoping that you heard something about them after that... :(

Thank you for the information about the cumaru - we like it but in this case we will, most probably, stick with canadian red oak.

[Pesho]

Another question: My second option was Darmaga, but since they make estimations and work only during the week, they are not really an option for me (and Kate M's post on page #46 also contributed).

Any recommendations? The house is in Richmond Hill and we still don't own it. The closing date is in mid-August and we would like to have the hardwood installed one week later, preferably during the weekend.

Thank you in advance! :)

[ioums]

I have a couple of questions related to refinishing the hardwood floors in my house. The house is fairly old (maybe 1960's). The main level floors were probably refinished a couple of years ago (I'm guessing on that, since it wasn't my house at that time) and are still in relatively good condition. There used to be carpet upstairs, but we tore it all out to reveal floors that are not in great condition. So, my questions:

1) I have already begun some of the refinishing by sanding down one of the bedrooms upstairs. When sanding the floor I had to go against the grain to get close to the wall. Right now I can't see a difference between where I went with the grain vs going against it, but I'm afraid that it might be obvious when I start to stain and finish the floor. Should I go around the edges of the room (or the entire room?) and sand with the grain either by hand or with a small palm sander?

2) I would like some opinions on what to put on the floor during the staining process. The stain and finish are obvious, but what about mineral spirits or a 'wood conditioner'. I've seen recommendations for those, but are they necessary to get a good finish?

3) I'm not sure what colour to stain the floor. I was going to go with a darker stain since I prefer darker floors, but recently I have found out that I may need to sell the house and move in the fall (I'll say that there is probably about an 80% chance of this). My concern is that the upstairs (and stairs going upstairs, which I will be tackling soon) will not match the floors downstairs, which I don't really want to finish (if I don't move they will get refinished eventually). The rooms downstairs do have some beams along the ceiling that are roughly the colour I would want to paint the floor. Basically I just want to hear some opinions on if it would look stupid to have stairs (dark, walnuty kind of colour) that don't match the main level floors (more of an ambery orangey-brown kind of colour). Even if I try to match the stairs and upstairs floors to the main level floors I'm not sure how well I will be able to get them to match.
edit: post 118 has a picture of some stairs that look like they have treads that are not the same colour as the floors, so I guess it can be done.

Thanks in advance :)

[stealth]

Patrob, is this how stairs are normally contructed?
I'm putting down new risers and treads, but the existing stairs are so squeaky, I decided to pull off a couple risers to see what I might be able to put some screws into, in order to tighten things up.
It doesnt look very Mike Holmes-ian. I would have thought there'd be 3 solid stringers to support the stairs (about 44" wide).

Is there anything I can do to get some of the squeaks out?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/IMG_3502.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/IMG_3503.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/bigphatgoalie/IMG_3504.jpg

[patrob]

I have a couple of questions related to refinishing the hardwood floors in my house. The house is fairly old (maybe 1960's). The main level floors were probably refinished a couple of years ago (I'm guessing on that, since it wasn't my house at that time) and are still in relatively good condition. There used to be carpet upstairs, but we tore it all out to reveal floors that are not in great condition. So, my questions:

1) I have already begun some of the refinishing by sanding down one of the bedrooms upstairs. When sanding the floor I had to go against the grain to get close to the wall. Right now I can't see a difference between where I went with the grain vs going against it, but I'm afraid that it might be obvious when I start to stain and finish the floor. Should I go around the edges of the room (or the entire room?) and sand with the grain either by hand or with a small palm sander?

2) I would like some opinions on what to put on the floor during the staining process. The stain and finish are obvious, but what about mineral spirits or a 'wood conditioner'. I've seen recommendations for those, but are they necessary to get a good finish?

3) I'm not sure what colour to stain the floor. I was going to go with a darker stain since I prefer darker floors, but recently I have found out that I may need to sell the house and move in the fall (I'll say that there is probably about an 80% chance of this). My concern is that the upstairs (and stairs going upstairs, which I will be tackling soon) will not match the floors downstairs, which I don't really want to finish (if I don't move they will get refinished eventually). The rooms downstairs do have some beams along the ceiling that are roughly the colour I would want to paint the floor. Basically I just want to hear some opinions on if it would look stupid to have stairs (dark, walnuty kind of colour) that don't match the main level floors (more of an ambery orangey-brown kind of colour). Even if I try to match the stairs and upstairs floors to the main level floors I'm not sure how well I will be able to get them to match.
edit: post 118 has a picture of some stairs that look like they have treads that are not the same colour as the floors, so I guess it can be done.

Thanks in advance :)

1) Yes, just to be safe, run with the grain along the edges & sharp scraper in the corners. When applying a darker stain any scratches across the grain will come out in the form of a black line.

2) No need for mineral spirits. You can run the floor with a wet rug before staining to wet the floors slightly but many times the stain comes out darker when applied on wet.

3) Preferably if you are going with 2 diff. stains downstairs/upstairs, the staircase looks better when it matches the lower floor. Or in the worst case, slightly darker but def. not lighter. Post #118 is a piano staircase - 2 tone which the light breaks up the darker & the stain colour is darker than the floors. But that staircase looks a lot better in a darker stain. Dark colours are very trendy but some people don't like it. Maybe don't go too dark if you are planning to sell.

[patrob]

Patrob, is this how stairs are normally contructed?
I'm putting down new risers and treads, but the existing stairs are so squeaky, I decided to pull off a couple risers to see what I might be able to put some screws into, in order to tighten things up.
It doesnt look very Mike Holmes-ian. I would have thought there'd be 3 solid stringers to support the stairs (about 44" wide).

Is there anything I can do to get some of the squeaks out?

Doesn't look like you have any access from behind the stairs. The risers on the pics are particle board, so you don't really have anything to screw the treads into. PL all the joints of treads, risers, stringers together before applying the pre-cut tread & riser. The glue should fasten everything together.

[stealth]

Doesn't look like you have any access from behind the stairs. The risers on the pics are particle board, so you don't really have anything to screw the treads into. PL all the joints of treads, risers, stringers together before applying the pre-cut tread & riser. The glue should fasten everything together.

Thanks. So no need to pull up the existing treads/risers? Just fill the gaps and glue the new ones right on top?

[patrob]

Thanks. So no need to pull up the existing treads/risers? Just fill the gaps and glue the new ones right on top?

Yes, that's correct.

[stealth]

Yes, that's correct.

Thanks so much!

[sabrinajinmi]

Visited a store today, they are selling Sadin Finish resanded floors for under $4. The sales person told me the manufacture resanded some old floors and finish them with a more popular color. Is this common? I checked SF's website, there are no mention of resanded floors. Do you know if they any good? or they are something I should stay away from?

I compared the resanded sample with standard SF floor. The Looks are identical for me. And the color of resanded floor also is the one I like.

Thanks.

[Daboss]

Anyone know a reputable place in Toronto to get unfinished Jatoba - I am looking for something that is a name brand if that is possible? What I am looking at paying for select and better?

[irisray]

Has anyone used Pacific Flooring (Woodbine, near Hwy. 7 in Toronto)? Are they okay?

Thanks.

[patrob]

Visited a store today, they are selling Sadin Finish resanded floors for under $4. The sales person told me the manufacture resanded some old floors and finish them with a more popular color. Is this common? I checked SF's website, there are no mention of resanded floors. Do you know if they any good? or they are something I should stay away from?

I compared the resanded sample with standard SF floor. The Looks are identical for me. And the color of resanded floor also is the one I like.

Thanks.

Usually manufacturers do a "sidewalk sale" and sell it out at lower price. But I guess SF takes the old stock that is not selling or the colour doesn't match (very common) throws it on the machine, resends it & stains it in a new colour. So your floor now is not 3/4" thick & it's already re-sanded once, so it's not a new floor even though it comes from the manufacturer :idea: No it's not common.

[patrob]

Anyone know a reputable place in Toronto to get unfinished Jatoba - I am looking for something that is a name brand if that is possible? What I am looking at paying for select and better?

Why would you want unfinished jatoba? You're going to pay min. over $3 & more for name brand wood, plus installation +- $2 plus another min. $2 to sand & finish. So your cost is already $7 sq. ft. And your finish quality will not be the same plus the mess in the house for couple of days.

[NestleQuick]

Is an auction a good place to purchase hardwood?

Theres an auction coming up what are your thoughts?

http://www.nevilleauction.com/

Thanks

[patrob]

Is an auction a good place to purchase hardwood?

Theres an auction coming up what are your thoughts?

http://www.nevilleauction.com/

Thanks

Here is your answer, has been discussed few times already...:)
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6068916&postcount=39

Want to also add, from looking at the pics of the supposedly "American Premium Hardwood", the packaging does not resemble how North American hardwood is packaged, looks anything but North American. The milling from underneath doesn't look anything like American & to me looks like it's coated.
Only overseas (Asian) products come packaged in plastic & there is totally no shipping protection :idea:

[Rexie]

My house is about 8 years old. It appears to have use 5/8" Sturdi-i-floor (20 oc) as its flooring material. All floors are in good condition and the house is air conditioned/humidity controlled. The builder installed hardwood in the family room. In that room the joists appear to be on 12" centres. Other parts of the house appear to have joists on 16" centres.

Any recommendations re installing hardwood in other house areas? Whatever I have read on the internet recommends 23/32 OSB boards (for new floors). Any I likely to have problems if I go with what I've already got without another layer? I wouldn't like having the height transition where the two floors meet.

[patrob]

My house is about 8 years old. It appears to have use 5/8" Sturdi-i-floor (20 oc) as its flooring material. All floors are in good condition and the house is air conditioned/humidity controlled. The builder installed hardwood in the family room. In that room the joists appear to be on 12" centres. Other parts of the house appear to have joists on 16" centres.

Any recommendations re installing hardwood in other house areas? Whatever I have read on the internet recommends 23/32 OSB boards (for new floors). Any I likely to have problems if I go with what I've already got without another layer? I wouldn't like having the height transition where the two floors meet.

You are fine the way it is & go across the joist. Which part is 20 o.c.?

[Rexie]

You are fine the way it is & go across the joist. Which part is 20 o.c.?


The 20 oc I believe refers to the max joist distance allowable for the wood sheets for structural purposes (in my case 20"). Thus anything <=20" the floor won't fall down.

A web site for similar wood is : http://www.gfp-inc.com/downloads/GrantOSB1.pdf Note going from 5/8" to 23/32" you get about 60% more load rating and your max span goes up about 20%. Hardwood suppliers often recommend 23/32" OSB wood. What I wasn't sure of in practice is does the slightly lower thickness typically make any difference.

[SMC23]

We have Satin Finish Graphite floors in oak and love the way they turned out!!!

We were shopping and comparing them to Mirage in Java color and there was just something about the Graphite in Satin Finish that amazed us. Honestly we could not notice a difference between the two from the finish nor the V grooves. I would recommend people to go with a reputable brand and choose the color that suits them best.

On another note, can anyone recommend a good cleaner/protector to be used with Satin Finish floors?

[Kranberry]

Have you heard of the brand Amazon for laminate? Store claims it is a German brand. If they have current stock they will sell me 10mm for $1.30/sf, if they need to order they will sell it for $1.90/sf.

Assuming it is not high grade, but say middle of the road, would I be better off getting Torlys 8mm for $1.90/sf?

Thanks Patrob. Also what should I expect for contractors installation (I know you can't give exact numbers, but say $2-$3/sf for laminate, $4-$7 for hardwood, etc.) just so I don't feel like I'm being ripped off...lol

[hajif]

Hey All,


I have just purchased a condo in London, ON and want to replace the carpeting with a nice engineered floor, covering about 1000 sq. ft. Looking for something with not too much graining in the dark brown/expresso family for colour. Woods that I have seen an liked include maple, birch, white oak, and even some regular oak that is nice. I am a newbie at this so I was hoping for some advice as to where I might find a good price for such a product and how much I should be paying per sq. ft. I'm especially looking for a store in London/Hamilton/Toronto region, if possible. I have also been looking online and found a US company - BuildDirect, who has a nice looking White Oak "Burberry" product for $2.54. It seems to be a good price, but I don't know if anyone has bought from this place before and can comment on quality of wood? The brand is Dreya, they also carry some nice samples in the $3-4 in Vanier and Burlington Handscraped.


Thanks!

[patrob]

The 20 oc I believe refers to the max joist distance allowable for the wood sheets for structural purposes (in my case 20"). Thus anything <=20" the floor won't fall down.

A web site for similar wood is : http://www.gfp-inc.com/downloads/GrantOSB1.pdf Note going from 5/8" to 23/32" you get about 60% more load rating and your max span goes up about 20%. Hardwood suppliers often recommend 23/32" OSB wood. What I wasn't sure of in practice is does the slightly lower thickness typically make any difference.

The thickness between the OSB is not noticeable but if you don't feel comfortable, you can always add the 1/4" ply.

[patrob]

We have Satin Finish Graphite floors in oak and love the way they turned out!!!

We were shopping and comparing them to Mirage in Java color and there was just something about the Graphite in Satin Finish that amazed us. Honestly we could not notice a difference between the two from the finish nor the V grooves. I would recommend people to go with a reputable brand and choose the color that suits them best.

On another note, can anyone recommend a good cleaner/protector to be used with Satin Finish floors?

You didn't notice the glossier finish on SF & the higher/lower boards?

But if you are happy with the product you chose, then that's all that matters. There is no special cleaner for SF but check with a flooring store, just not HD.

[patrob]

Have you heard of the brand Amazon for laminate? Store claims it is a German brand. If they have current stock they will sell me 10mm for $1.30/sf, if they need to order they will sell it for $1.90/sf.

Assuming it is not high grade, but say middle of the road, would I be better off getting Torlys 8mm for $1.90/sf?

Thanks Patrob. Also what should I expect for contractors installation (I know you can't give exact numbers, but say $2-$3/sf for laminate, $4-$7 for hardwood, etc.) just so I don't feel like I'm being ripped off...lol

Not familiar with that brand. But many times, the 8 or 9 mm from Torlys is a lot better than 10 - 12mm from other brands. So the thickness doesn't really matter, it's the density of the HDF that's most important & the aluminum coating. I still prefer Torlys over any other laminates. They also have great customer service.

Prices will vary from brand, styles, colours, grade & where it goes. PM me with the details, then I can tell you my opinion.

[patrob]

I have just purchased a condo in London, ON and want to replace the carpeting with a nice engineered floor, covering about 1000 sq. ft. Looking for something with not too much graining in the dark brown/expresso family for colour. Woods that I have seen an liked include maple, birch, white oak, and even some regular oak that is nice. I am a newbie at this so I was hoping for some advice as to where I might find a good price for such a product and how much I should be paying per sq. ft. I'm especially looking for a store in London/Hamilton/Toronto region, if possible. I have also been looking online and found a US company - BuildDirect, who has a nice looking White Oak "Burberry" product for $2.54. It seems to be a good price, but I don't know if anyone has bought from this place before and can comment on quality of wood? The brand is Dreya, they also carry some nice samples in the $3-4 in Vanier and Burlington Handscraped.
Thanks!

Condos are usually more expensive, due to the inconvenience (rules), underlays, methods of installation & more expensive product (engineered).

Oaks are grainy, maple & birch or maybe some nice exotics are less grainy but more expensive. The $2.54 sq. ft. product, that's a price for laminate but not for real hardwood engineered. And real handscraped products are very expensive (around $8 - $9sq. ft.)

[Micky N]

Hey Patrob,

My uncle has purchased a new home in Utah and he has a dilemma wherein he wants to go for simple solid wood flooring with good mattresses on it while my aunt wants to go for laminate wood flooring without mattresses on the floor!

What can be the best option of the two; since they want me to select one for them to prevent clashes :lol:

[Micky N]

One important point that I forgot to mention:
They are in southern part that of Utah which is more near to deserts; since the northern part is snowy!!!

I just thought if atmosphere should make a difference to this while selecting---:idea: ---
Please guide.

[imnew]

Patrob:

How good & how easy to install is the above product? I'm thinking of purchasing it from HD this weekend for our basement.


Thanks..

[lisiuping]

It seems to me the uniclic system has the best locking system between laminates and it is locked at 4 sides. Is this right?

I found some Dupoint laminate at homedepot but its locking system is not uniclic and has no AC rating

How good are they?

[patrob]

Hey Patrob,

My uncle has purchased a new home in Utah and he has a dilemma wherein he wants to go for simple solid wood flooring with good mattresses on it while my aunt wants to go for laminate wood flooring without mattresses on the floor!

What can be the best option of the two; since they want me to select one for them to prevent clashes :lol:

One important point that I forgot to mention:
They are in southern part that of Utah which is more near to deserts; since the northern part is snowy!!!

I just thought if atmosphere should make a difference to this while selecting---:idea: ---
Please guide.

Not sure what you mean about the mattresses :confused: :D Either way, go for solid or good engineered. Preferably engineered due to the climate. It has to be well climatized before installation.

[patrob]

Patrob:

How good & how easy to install is the above product? I'm thinking of purchasing it from HD this weekend for our basement.

Thanks..

Personally never worked with it but some people have said it's good for the money & apparently easy to install.

[patrob]

It seems to me the uniclic system has the best locking system between laminates and it is locked at 4 sides. Is this right?

I found some Dupoint laminate at homedepot but its locking system is not uniclic and has no AC rating

How good are they?

Torlys or Quickstep. Uniclic is the best locking system for sure. I don't really deal with HD or Rona laminates or hardwood.

[Hugh Jass]

I don't really deal with HD or Rona laminates or hardwood.

Why? Is it a question of price and/or quality?

[animex]

I don't really deal with HD or Rona laminates or hardwood.

I'm with ya after I went to a local flooring store. They have better quality product for same/less price than hd/rona have. I almost went with hd flooring because of that rebate thing. and the underlay I got has better quality than the cheapo ones at hd/rona and it cost only a little bit more.

[tdotcitizen]

oh i see.... i have oak right now. my fiancee and i both hate how grainy it is - can't stand it. and i think if you stain, the graininess still comes right through it, so there's not much point :P

we actually got a way better quote today from a different company, so we might just go with them. we got a quote to do hardwood floor from one company and carpet (for upstairs) from another company - everything together is just a bit over $5000. pretty good, but i'm still shopping around for the best one.

question: what's your thoughts on hard maple vs. birch?



Hi Col127,

Seems you got a great deal according to patrob. Could you please let me know if you were happy with the result, outcome and everything about that company?

Could you kindly give me their name and contact info?

Thanks very much.

[tdotcitizen]

I'm looking to change my condo's carpet floor to hardwood. Has anyone done this recently? Any good company with decent rates and good quality? Thanks.

[bob318]

For a 250 sq ft living room of my townhouse. I just thinking to choose either 3" 1/4 or 4" hardwood floor. Which one fit my room better? Why?

Is that true for 3 1/4" and 4" hardwood are from Canada. and 3 1/2 is usually from China?

How do you know that is a Grade A wood? Who can I tell the hardwood floor are in good quality?

What is the best price I can get in GTA area for canadian Jatoba hardwood?

Thanks

[patrob]

Why? Is it a question of price and/or quality?

Both. You can get better quality for the same or lower price.

[patrob]

For a 250 sq ft living room of my townhouse. I just thinking to choose either 3" 1/4 or 4" hardwood floor. Which one fit my room better? Why?

Is that true for 3 1/4" and 4" hardwood are from Canada. and 3 1/2 is usually from China?

How do you know that is a Grade A wood? Who can I tell the hardwood floor are in good quality?

What is the best price I can get in GTA area for canadian Jatoba hardwood?

Thanks

Either size will look good.

Every manufacturer makes similar sizes, some make 2 1/4", 2 1/2", 3", 3 1/4", 3 1/2" & 4" & even 4 1/4". Stay away from wood packed in plastic.

If you see sizes like 3 5/8", 4 1/8" those usually are from overseas. The grade A, it's like you are talking about beef :D A = grade 1 = clear, is usually cleaner, no knots, longer boards. Finish, stain & varnish on any grade should be the same, it's the wood quality that's diff. And there is no Canadian jatoba. The product might be finished here but milled somewhere else. And buy the exotic wood from a reputable manufacturer only.

[irisray]

Hi Patrob:

Have you ever seen a Vintage black walnut estate floor laid? On the sample board, the planks have quite a bit of yellow, some greenish tones, and areas of light to medium brown. It's hard to tell how representative the sample board is and what a whole floor of it would look like.

Will this be an elegant, fairly evenly toned floor, or kind of crazy, with many light and dark boards. Although sometimes with the light and darks boards you still get an overall even feel. I'm trying to decide between this and Vintage oak mocha, a completely different look. Would appreciate any pros, cons, comments about either.

Many thanks.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Have you ever seen a Vintage black walnut estate floor laid? On the sample board, the planks have quite a bit of yellow, some greenish tones, and areas of light to medium brown. It's hard to tell how representative the sample board is and what a whole floor of it would look like.

Will this be an elegant, fairly evenly toned floor, or kind of crazy, with many light and dark boards. Although sometimes with the light and darks boards you still get an overall even feel. I'm trying to decide between this and Vintage oak mocha, a completely different look. Would appreciate any pros, cons, comments about either.

Many thanks.

1) Walnut is a lot softer wood. Smoother finish & like you said, it will have that more of a "crazy look", meaning it's less uniform in colour if you choose natural walnut. It also ages with time & becomes a bit darker.

2) Red oak Mocha is harder than walnut & totally diff. look & because it's stained, it's very uniform. There is a large price diff. in the black walnut & oak.

3) What about stained walnut in Monarch colour, it's more uniform & has a rich feel.

[imnew]

Deleted...

[lisiuping]

uniclic is licensed to a lot of laminate brands
Torlys and Quickstep are just 2 of them
I am looking for AC4 or AC5 rating laminates
Which brand did you recommend that use uniclic joints?

[imnew]

What is the normal expansion gap for laminate? 1/4" or 1/2"??

[bob318]

Thank you patrob
I can get more detail now from the supplier today
Here is the hardwood flooring company - marquise
http://www.starwoodmanufacturing.com/about.html

We were quoted for
Manufactory: Starwood (http://www.starwoodmanufacturing.com)
Type:Jatoba
Size: 3 1/4"
Grade: Select and Better
Price: $4.8 per sq ft plus tax
Labour: $2(Cash) <-- Our target for now


Manufactory: St Lawrence Collections (http://stlawrencecollections.com)
Type:Jatoba
Size: 3 1/4"
Grade: Select and Better
Price: $5.4 per sq ft plus tax
Labour: $2(Cash)

We pick that because the original color is not that red yet. We know the color will changed to darker. so we are pretty concern about the original color before unpack.
http://www.starwoodmanufacturing.com/colors/J_natural.jpg

We tried get the quote for the jatoba hardwood floor in Toronto area. most of them either from China or the color is too red.

I heard you suggest people to get Vintage. What is the price of it for the same size? Thank you.


Either size will look good.

Every manufacturer makes similar sizes, some make 2 1/4", 2 1/2", 3", 3 1/4", 3 1/2" & 4" & even 4 1/4". Stay away from wood packed in plastic.

If you see sizes like 3 5/8", 4 1/8" those usually are from overseas. The grade A, it's like you are talking about beef :D A = grade 1 = clear, is usually cleaner, no knots, longer boards. Finish, stain & varnish on any grade should be the same, it's the wood quality that's diff. And there is no Canadian jatoba. The product might be finished here but milled somewhere else. And buy the exotic wood from a reputable manufacturer only.

[patrob]

uniclic is licensed to a lot of laminate brands
Torlys and Quickstep are just 2 of them
I am looking for AC4 or AC5 rating laminates
Which brand did you recommend that use uniclic joints?

Uniclic is a locking system that other companies/brands use in their laminates. Of course they pay royalties to use their locking system. But still Torlys or Quickstep is one of the best in overall quality.

What is the normal expansion gap for laminate? 1/4" or 1/2"??

Around 1/2" from the wall. But always follow the manufacturer's installation guide.

[patrob]

We tried get the quote for the jatoba hardwood floor in Toronto area. most of them either from China or the color is too red.

I heard you suggest people to get Vintage. What is the price of it for the same size? Thank you.

Vintage 3 1/4" Jatoba natural will be min. 75 cents more per sq. ft. than St. Lawrence. If you are concerned about the colour change, higher colour variation, don't pick natural, go for stained.

[irisray]

1) Walnut is a lot softer wood. Smoother finish & like you said, it will have that more of a "crazy look", meaning it's less uniform in colour if you choose natural walnut. It also ages with time & becomes a bit darker.

2) Red oak Mocha is harder than walnut & totally diff. look & because it's stained, it's very uniform. There is a large price diff. in the black walnut & oak.

3) What about stained walnut in Monarch colour, it's more uniform & has a rich feel.


Hi Patrob:

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out the walnut monarch. It looks similar in darkness to the red oak mocha with maybe more reddish to it? I like the colour of the mocha - have you ever seen this laid? I want something that will look elegant. Perhaps it looks elegant when you see a whole room of it, very hard to tell from the samples.

I called vintage today re the natural walnut and they kindly referred me to a subdivision where the sales office and several homes had it laid. Individual boards looked beautiful, but overall it was more choppy a look than I'm going for.

Thank you.

[animex]

What should I use to finish the edge perimeter on 2nd floor? I have laminate flooring. thank you

[patrob]

What should I use to finish the edge perimeter on 2nd floor? I have laminate flooring. thank you

Depends how big the gap is? You could use 3/8" door stop style quarter round, some sort of shoe mould or plain 1/2" or 3/4" quarter round.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out the walnut monarch. It looks similar in darkness to the red oak mocha with maybe more reddish to it? I like the colour of the mocha - have you ever seen this laid? I want something that will look elegant. Perhaps it looks elegant when you see a whole room of it, very hard to tell from the samples.

I called vintage today re the natural walnut and they kindly referred me to a subdivision where the sales office and several homes had it laid. Individual boards looked beautiful, but overall it was more choppy a look than I'm going for.

Thank you.
Actually my husband is now installing Chariot which is very similar to Mocha. Very popular colours & very elegant. What about solid sawn engineered in Walnut, which is perfect for a condo & would def. help resolve your uneven sub-floor problem. The boards are longer, more rigid, perfectly straight which will def. give you a better feel.

[wiifreak]

how much for the laminate that would consider as cheap?

[Kongee]

how much do ppl usually charge to wax the floors? 600sq per floor. 2 floors total.

tks

[jimgiggles]

Just saw tonight that Home Depot has the Campbell Hausfield cleat nailer on sale for $199. I purchased this cleat nailer from Canadian Tire a couple months back, and have had great success with it! Even comes with some cleat, staples, and and rubber mallet..

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/images/CHN50399_500.jpg

[fukngrvn]

Hi everyone,

Looking for some good pictures of parkay/parquet flooring that has been finished or refinished using a dark stain.

Moved into an older home that has this flooring and have heard that it looks great when its very dark.

Any pictures you can provide would be great!

Thanks,
Glen

[patrob]

how much for the laminate that would consider as cheap?

Anything below $1 sq. ft. is considered cheap.

how much do ppl usually charge to wax the floors? 600sq per floor. 2 floors total.

tks

To be honest, don't really know.

[patrob]

Hi everyone,

Looking for some good pictures of parkay/parquet flooring that has been finished or refinished using a dark stain.

Moved into an older home that has this flooring and have heard that it looks great when its very dark.

Any pictures you can provide would be great!

Thanks,
Glen

Don't have any pics but if the parquet floor is in good shape you can re-sand & a dark stain will look good.

[aml716]

we'relooking for either a place to buy maple select and better hardwood who will also install and stain/paint our oak staircase.

we're looking at mercier mystic brown or mirage in earl gray. any thoughts??
we're specific on the colour it has to be that greyish/brownish colour. more grey than brown. we'd also like the nosings, steps and handrail stained, but the risers painted in white. we have metal pickets.

any recommendations? the best price i got for mercier is $5.35/sq ft but i'm unsure how much mirage will set us back. we also contemplated on three towers flooring maple select and better for $4.86/sq ft, but they don't stain/paint staircases.

some places are also charging "premiums" for difficult areas such as upper hallways. and i'm also getting charged for flush mount vents and transitions pieces... What's a reasonable amount to be charged for these for the lack of a better word, accessories??

any thoughts patrob?

pm. or email me aml716@gmail.com.

[johnsmithy]

hi patrob,

thanks for being so deligent in replying to this thread.

i recently purchased a house which hardwood floors (wide stained pine planks on one floor and narrow unfinished oak on another floor) but they have been nailed through the top.

the nails pop up and the floor squeeks and the oak strips need to be sanded and stained. are there any options available to save these floors and stop the nail pops or do i have to replace them?

thanks!

[patrob]

we'relooking for either a place to buy maple select and better hardwood who will also install and stain/paint our oak staircase.

we're looking at mercier mystic brown or mirage in earl gray. any thoughts??
we're specific on the colour it has to be that greyish/brownish colour. more grey than brown. we'd also like the nosings, steps and handrail stained, but the risers painted in white. we have metal pickets.

any recommendations? the best price i got for mercier is $5.35/sq ft but i'm unsure how much mirage will set us back. we also contemplated on three towers flooring maple select and better for $4.86/sq ft, but they don't stain/paint staircases.

some places are also charging "premiums" for difficult areas such as upper hallways. and i'm also getting charged for flush mount vents and transitions pieces... What's a reasonable amount to be charged for these for the lack of a better word, accessories??

any thoughts patrob?


Maple is more expensive from domestic species. And for some reason the gray/pewter colours are even more. Still nobody knows about Three Towers, so cannot help you on that. Mirage is more expensive than Mercier but I am sure it is a better product.

How about Vintage Slate colour? It should be a bit less than Mirage but equal or better. On Vintage website the Maple Slate pic does not show its true colour.

Yes, some stores will charge you extra for upper hall because it does take more time. Flush-mount vents, of course they would be extra, they usually come unfinished & have to be stained & varnished to match plus little extra to install. Reducers/transition pieces are around $50 plus (depending on length). But they can easily be made from the wood installed & IMO they look better than the manufactured reducers.

PM me with more details & I will be more than happy to help you :)

[patrob]

hi patrob,

thanks for being so deligent in replying to this thread.

i recently purchased a house which hardwood floors (wide stained pine planks on one floor and narrow unfinished oak on another floor) but they have been nailed through the top.

the nails pop up and the floor squeeks and the oak strips need to be sanded and stained. are there any options available to save these floors and stop the nail pops or do i have to replace them?

thanks!

It must be an older house... Are both floors nailed from the top? Or maybe the previous owner tried to fix the squeaks by nailing the planks :confused: The narrow strips (3/8" x 1 1/2" or 1 3/4") they usually squeak & there is no way to fix it. Before re-sanding, make sure there is enough wood left for sanding. Maybe it's the nails showing through & this would be a good indication that it's time to replace the floors.

[irisray]

Actually my husband is now installing Chariot which is very similar to Mocha. Very popular colours & very elegant. What about solid sawn engineered in Walnut, which is perfect for a condo & would def. help resolve your uneven sub-floor problem. The boards are longer, more rigid, perfectly straight which will def. give you a better feel.

Hi Patrob:

Thank you for the colour suggestions, they were very elegant. BTW, I decided to plunge in and level the floor (killed the bank account, but to paraphrase home renovator Mike Holmes, do it right).

I borrowed the darker samples but decided they were too dark with my furniture. Today, I found 2 that are perfect so now I have to decide which one - Vintage musket white oak estate and Vintage chivas hickory vintage (is vintage grade the same as estate?).

The samples I have are 2 planks wide for the hickory and 3 for the oak so a little hard to assess. What is the difference between these woods? I'm familiar with oak but don't know anything about hickory, don't think I've seen any hickory floors or samples anywhere. Is the graining similar to oak and what about durability? Have you seen either of these colours down?

Many thanks.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

Thank you for the colour suggestions, they were very elegant. BTW, I decided to plunge in and level the floor (killed the bank account, but to paraphrase home renovator Mike Holmes, do it right).

I borrowed the darker samples but decided they were too dark with my furniture. Today, I found 2 that are perfect so now I have to decide which one - Vintage musket white oak estate and Vintage chivas hickory vintage (is vintage grade the same as estate?).

The samples I have are 2 planks wide for the hickory and 3 for the oak so a little hard to assess. What is the difference between these woods? I'm familiar with oak but don't know anything about hickory, don't think I've seen any hickory floors or samples anywhere. Is the graining similar to oak and what about durability? Have you seen either of these colours down?

Many thanks.

Hickory has a very similar grain to oak. It's around 500 points harder than white oak & long time ago skis & baseball bats were made out of hickory.

Colour wise I prefer white oak Musket but it's really a personal preference. Woods like ash, hickory & some others only come in Vintage grade.

Actually here is a pic of our job done in Vintage Musket colour :)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8963/img3371gw2.jpg

[irisray]

Hickory has a very similar grain to oak. It's around 500 points harder than white oak & long time ago skis & baseball bats were made out of hickory.

Colour wise I prefer white oak Musket but it's really a personal preference. Woods like ash, hickory & some others only come in Vintage grade.

Actually here is a pic of a job done in Musket colour :)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8963/img3371gw2.jpg


Thanks for the info, Patrob, and the picture. Very fancy installation job (your husband's?). Must have taken a lot of time but the end result is beautiful.

What would you say is the undertone of the musket oak? The small sample I have looks like it was made from one plank, a plank with subtle, straight graining, so it looks more like teak than oak. When the whole floor is laid, what is the undertone - reddish, orange, greenish, yellow, other?? Do you think it'd go with mahagony furniture? but wouldn't look too dark?

I think I prefer the oak to the hickory too. It looks richer and my hickory sample looks yellow/orange toned. Why do the woods you mentioned only come in vintage grade? I was surprised to see so much variation in the oak floor since it's estate grade. I guess that's the nature of oak and it's charm.

Thank you, as always. I'm learning more than I ever thought I'd know about wood :lol:

[spanky]

hi patrob,

i was looking at preverco select beech hardwood (3 1/4 inch) for my house. how is the quality and is it a good price for $4.90 a square foot?

thanks

[patrob]

Thanks for the info, Patrob, and the picture. Very fancy installation job (your husband's?). Must have taken a lot of time but the end result is beautiful.

What would you say is the undertone of the musket oak? The small sample I have looks like it was made from one plank, a plank with subtle, straight graining, so it looks more like teak than oak. When the whole floor is laid, what is the undertone - reddish, orange, greenish, yellow, other?? Do you think it'd go with mahagony furniture? but wouldn't look too dark?

I think I prefer the oak to the hickory too. It looks richer and my hickory sample looks yellow/orange toned. Why do the woods you mentioned only come in vintage grade? I was surprised to see so much variation in the oak floor since it's estate grade. I guess that's the nature of oak and it's charm.

Thank you, as always. I'm learning more than I ever thought I'd know about wood :lol:

Yes it is my husbands installation :D Musket does have a greenish aged look undertone & it will not be too dark for your furniture. The house that the floor installation was done in has very dark antique furniture & it looks very good together. The hickory Chivas has a more yellow colour but if you look at Old Mission which is more red & Winchester which is more brown.

For those specific species (Hickory & Ash), Vintage grade is like Estate for others since there is only 1 grade.

[patrob]

hi patrob,

i was looking at preverco select beech hardwood (3 1/4 inch) for my house. how is the quality and is it a good price for $4.90 a square foot?

thanks

$4.90 for beech & Preverco is a bit overpriced IMO. Around $5 price range, you can find something better. There have been issues with Preverco in the past so hopefully they have improved.

[irisray]

Yes it is my husbands installation :D Musket does have a greenish aged look undertone & it will not be too dark for your furniture. The house that the floor installation was done in has very dark antique furniture & it looks very good together. The hickory Chivas has a more yellow colour but if you look at Old Mission which is more red & Winchester which is more brown.

For those specific species (Hickory & Ash), Vintage grade is like Estate for others since there is only 1 grade.

Hi Patrob:

I like the Musket, and a greenish aged undertone sounds perfect. Your comments were so helpful as was the picture of your hubby's fantastic work. The Musket looks like an easy to live with mid-toned wood, one that you could decorate around in any style.

I wish the Vintage site would update and follow the lead of Mirage who's website is terrific and gives you a great idea of how the various woods look installed.

Many, many thanks.:D

[lisiuping]

I am looking at 12mm laminate and found this:
http://www.floorzbuzz.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=8&idproduct=31

12mm AC5 Kronotex Robusto laminate at $1.35/sq ft

hard to believe price and they ship to Canada, shipping charge to be verified

Anyone has experience with this company & Robusto series?

[hajif]

Hi All,


I've just bought a new condo in London, ON and I am looking for a dark engineered hardwood to put into it. I've got about 1050 sq. ft to fill, and I've been looking at products like the Torlys Montcalm Beech Wenge or something slightly lighter/more brown/less black then that. I also have a tight budget, can't spend more then $4.00 per sq. ft (including tax). Ideally I was looking for something without too much grain, so a beech/maple, or even a jatoba or something of that sort, but if I get the colour and price I won't fuss about the grain. I'm also easy on the size of plank, as always wider would be nice but I'm realistic considering the budget. If anyone knows where I might find something like this in southwestern Ontario (i.e. anywhere from London to Oshawa) I would love some help. The cheapest I can find for a decent product is $4.50/sq. ft + tax.

Help!

Thanks,

Faizal

[patrob]

I've just bought a new condo in London, ON and I am looking for a dark engineered hardwood to put into it. I've got about 1050 sq. ft to fill, and I've been looking at products like the Torlys Montcalm Beech Wenge or something slightly lighter/more brown/less black then that. I also have a tight budget, can't spend more then $4.00 per sq. ft (including tax). Ideally I was looking for something without too much grain, so a beech/maple, or even a jatoba or something of that sort, but if I get the colour and price I won't fuss about the grain. I'm also easy on the size of plank, as always wider would be nice but I'm realistic considering the budget. If anyone knows where I might find something like this in southwestern Ontario (i.e. anywhere from London to Oshawa) I would love some help. The cheapest I can find for a decent product is $4.50/sq. ft + tax.



Laminate yes, engineered no, unless you find it at an auction. Don't forget about your underlay & check with the condo management for their min. requirement, what about your transitions/reducers?

[patrob]

I am looking at 12mm laminate and found this:
http://www.floorzbuzz.com/productcar...8&idproduct=31

12mm AC5 Kronotex Robusto laminate at $1.35/sq ft

hard to believe price and they ship to Canada, shipping charge to be verified

Anyone has experience with this company & Robusto series?

The link does not work & I am not familiar with this product. But if you like the price & colour, the price seems good.

[Micky N]

Not sure what you mean about the mattresses :confused: :D Either way, go for solid or good engineered. Preferably engineered due to the climate. It has to be well climatized before installation.

Thank you Patrob!
With mattresses here I meant was kinda carpets for the floors.
But yes, as you said to meet with the climatic limitations, engineered wood floors --"well climatized before installation" is the right option.

Thanks! :)

[lisiuping]

The link does not work & I am not familiar with this product. But if you like the price & colour, the price seems good.

link corrected
how can the canadian price more than double the US online price?
Anyone can get similar pricing for similar AC5 product in Canada?

[SMC23]

Hickory has a very similar grain to oak. It's around 500 points harder than white oak & long time ago skis & baseball bats were made out of hickory.

Colour wise I prefer white oak Musket but it's really a personal preference. Woods like ash, hickory & some others only come in Vintage grade.

Actually here is a pic of a job done in Musket colour :)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8963/img3371gw2.jpg

Wow, beautiful floors and house!

Are those 5" baseboards? They look bold and gorgesous!

[johnsmithy]

hi patrob,

thanks for being so deligent in replying to this thread.

i recently purchased a house which hardwood floors (wide stained pine planks on one floor and narrow unfinished oak on another floor) but they have been nailed through the top.

the nails pop up and the floor squeeks and the oak strips need to be sanded and stained. are there any options available to save these floors and stop the nail pops or do i have to replace them?

thanks!

It must be an older house... Are both floors nailed from the top? Or maybe the previous owner tried to fix the squeaks by nailing the planks :confused: The narrow strips (3/8" x 1 1/2" or 1 3/4") they usually squeak & there is no way to fix it. Before re-sanding, make sure there is enough wood left for sanding. Maybe it's the nails showing through & this would be a good indication that it's time to replace the floors.

yup, both floors are nailed from the top. a friend warned us that re-sanding could be difficult too since the nails may tear up the sandpaper.

can i get your opinion on this flooring? excuse my noobieness as i am just starting to do my research in this area. the description is:

Larch Rustic 6"
Solid Hardwood
$3.99 / sq. ft. (600 sq. ft. available)
Nail Down To Wooden Sub-floor

here's the link to image: http://www.hardwoodflooringstore.com/img/specials/larch.jpg

this actually looks very similar to the wide planks we have on our third floor. i'm concerned that the knots and such will fall out and leave holes in the floor. is this a legitimate concern?

thanks again!

[patrob]

Wow, beautiful floors and house!

Are those 5" baseboards? They look bold and gorgesous!

No, actually those are 8" standard with that particular builder :D

[patrob]

yup, both floors are nailed from the top. a friend warned us that re-sanding could be difficult too since the nails may tear up the sandpaper.

can i get your opinion on this flooring? excuse my noobieness as i am just starting to do my research in this area. the description is:

Larch Rustic 6"
Solid Hardwood
$3.99 / sq. ft. (600 sq. ft. available)
Nail Down To Wooden Sub-floor

here's the link to image: http://www.hardwoodflooringstore.com/img/specials/larch.jpg

this actually looks very similar to the wide planks we have on our third floor. i'm concerned that the knots and such will fall out and leave holes in the floor. is this a legitimate concern?

thanks again!
There is no way I would go with a 6" solid plank. Can you imagine the capping in humidity & shrinkage? The max I would go with a solid plank is 4". If you want wide planks go with engineered wood. And $4 sq. ft. for rustic (3rd grade) is not that cheap for that brand.

Do you have a pic of the floors with the top nails showing?

[tetris]

I am in the process of building a new house. The basic flooring, in actual plan, is lino and carpet. If I upgrade to hardwood, will cost me around $10.00 psft as my builder told me. Is this nominal? Could I ask my builder to not to install lino and I will do the flooring (another contractor?), do the builder normally do this and give me some credit for lino. How much the difference in cost in lino and hardwood?

[johnsmithy]

There is no way I would go with a 6" solid plank. Can you imagine the capping in humidity & shrinkage? The max I would go with a solid plank is 4". If you want wide planks go with engineered wood. And $4 sq. ft. for rustic (3rd grade) is not that cheap for that brand.

Do you have a pic of the floors with the top nails showing?

Aw crap. I didn't see your reply yesterday so I ended up buying this: 5 1/4 maple in a natural finish (http://www.hardwoodflooringstore.com/img/specials/mpl%205.25.jpg).

I didn't know the wood stability was a bigger issue with the wider pieces but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I understand the shrinkage but what is "capping"? Is this the main reason to stay way from wider boards like this?

It's not installed yet so do you think it's worth returning it and getting narrower boards or can it be successfully installed? It's going into a 10 X 13 room and not the entire floor if that makes any difference.

I'll post some pictures of my old floors that are nailed (sometimes screwed) through the top when I get home tonight.

Thanks again for your advice.

[patrob]

I am in the process of building a new house. The basic flooring, in actual plan, is lino and carpet. If I upgrade to hardwood, will cost me around $10.00 psft as my builder told me. Is this nominal? Could I ask my builder to not to install lino and I will do the flooring (another contractor?), do the builder normally do this and give me some credit for lino. How much the difference in cost in lino and hardwood?

That's actually a decent price the builder is quoting you for hardwood. Not sure of actual cost of lino but just ask the builder not to install it & see what they say. Some builders will close a house with bare sub-floors, some will not.

[patrob]

Aw crap. I didn't see your reply yesterday so I ended up buying this: 5 1/4 maple in a natural finish (http://www.hardwoodflooringstore.com/img/specials/mpl%205.25.jpg).

I didn't know the wood stability was a bigger issue with the wider pieces but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I understand the shrinkage but what is "capping"? Is this the main reason to stay way from wider boards like this?

It's not installed yet so do you think it's worth returning it and getting narrower boards or can it be successfully installed? It's going into a 10 X 13 room and not the entire floor if that makes any difference.

I'll post some pictures of my old floors that are nailed (sometimes screwed) through the top when I get home tonight.

Thanks again for your advice.

You can still install it, you will be fine since the area is not too big. I meant to say cupping not capping. The 5 1/4" might show more cupping especially in maple. Here is a little pic that shows "cupping", pic #2 www.woodfloorsonline.com/techtalk/images/cupcrown.gif

Plus I doubt a place like that will take back returns without any re-stocking fees.

[johnsmithy]

You can still install it, you will be fine since the area is not too big. I meant to say cupping not capping. The 5 1/4" might show more cupping especially in maple. Here is a little pic that shows "cupping", pic #2 www.woodfloorsonline.com/techtalk/images/cupcrown.gif

Plus I doubt a place like that will take back returns without any re-stocking fees.

Great, I really didn't want to drive all that lumber back ;)

Here's a picture of my existing hardwood (oak strips I think) that are nailed through the top. Is there any hope of repair? Looks like some of them have the tongue and/or grooves broken off as well.

I also found a hole in the floor that exposes a bit of the subfloor and it looks like there's joist, some type of thick hardwood flooring, the oak strips, then a 1/4" ply. There doesn't seem to be any ply on top of the joists! Is this unusual for a 100 year old house?

I'd like to rip it out to the joist and re-do the subfloor but I can't afford the time (my sister arrives in 2 weeks and the room has to be finished by then!). I'm planning shooting some screws through all of the subfloor layers into the joist then install the 5 1/4" maple right on top of the existing layers of subfloor. I know you probably don't approve of this but how bad is this plan?

Thanks!
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3834/oakstripfloorstp7.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakstripfloorstp7.jpg)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9899/floorlayerszz4.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=floorlayerszz4.jpg)

[tommyamaral]

patrob, Please check your pm

[tetris]

That's actually a decent price the builder is quoting you for hardwood. Not sure of actual cost of lino but just ask the builder not to install it & see what they say. Some builders will close a house with bare sub-floors, some will not.
Patrob, This $10.00 SFT for hardwood floor upgrade is in addition to the lino price which has already been included in the original basic home plan price. Do you think is it still good price for upgrade and wouldn't be significant savings if done by a local contractor and get a credit from builder (if got the credit) for not installing of lino. Whats the better hardwood in terms of durability, size (width like 3", 5" or 6" and less wear and tear.

[patrob]

Great, I really didn't want to drive all that lumber back ;)

Here's a picture of my existing hardwood (oak strips I think) that are nailed through the top. Is there any hope of repair? Looks like some of them have the tongue and/or grooves broken off as well.

I also found a hole in the floor that exposes a bit of the subfloor and it looks like there's joist, some type of thick hardwood flooring, the oak strips, then a 1/4" ply. There doesn't seem to be any ply on top of the joists! Is this unusual for a 100 year old house?

I'd like to rip it out to the joist and re-do the subfloor but I can't afford the time (my sister arrives in 2 weeks and the room has to be finished by then!). I'm planning shooting some screws through all of the subfloor layers into the joist then install the 5 1/4" maple right on top of the existing layers of subfloor. I know you probably don't approve of this but how bad is this plan?

Thanks!


There is no hope of salvaging those floors, looks like there is just too much damage to it. Old houses had boards either regular or tongue & groove as the sub-floor. You can re-fasten the sub-floor but don't screw it too close or you will split the joists.

[patrob]

Patrob, This $10.00 SFT for hardwood floor upgrade is in addition to the lino price which has already been included in the original basic home plan price. Do you think is it still good price for upgrade and wouldn't be significant savings if done by a local contractor and get a credit from builder (if got the credit) for not installing of lino. Whats the better hardwood in terms of durability, size (width like 3", 5" or 6" and less wear and tear.

Why don't you call a couple of hardwood stores & get some quotes, then compare the price with the builders. For ex: here in GTA you have standard carpets when you buy a house & the builders charge on average around $12-16 sq. ft. And most times they never credit you for the carpet you already paid for. That's just how it is, so technically you are actually paying much more for that hardwood. I always tell people to get the hardwood installed after closing, you'll save yourself some money & you can re-use those carpets perhaps in the basement :idea:

From solid hardwoods 3 1/4" is the most common in the nicer size & stability. 5" & up is a bit too wide for solid, in that size or above, engineered is recommended. The durability of finish is the same for every size.

[mdesjardine]

Hi Patrob,
Thanks for the thread, it's been great. It's been great to have such honest and upfront information.

I have a few quick hardwood floor questions for you. We're thinking of a medium-dark Oak with as little grain as possible. I've got a young family, so durability and hiding scratches are pretty important. I think I want engineered because of the better structural warranty and stability.

1) Have you heard of Dansk, Columbia and/or Trillium flooring? If so, what do you think of them as compared to Mirage flooring?
2) We really like some of the Mirage flooring, especially since some come in low gloss, but they seemed so much more expensive than other brands. I'm in Winnipeg, so I don't know if it compares to Ontario pricing. Should it possible to get solid 3 1/4" Mirage Oak for a lot less than $8/ft2?
3) If I remove and replace baseboard after installation, do I avoid the need for quarter-round?

Thanks in advance...

[Shojin]

So after having Mirage engineered hardwood installed in our basement by the contractor finishing our basement, I discovered there are 3 leftover boxes (each with about 25 sq. ft). Unfortunately the contractor had unwrapped all the boxes prior to installation instead of saving a few boxes unopened (for this very same reason of excess) :evil: .

The wood is still in the boxes, but the wrapping is gone.

I don't suppose the wood is returnable at this stage. I guess the only option is to try and sell it at a steep discount?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,
Thanks for the thread, it's been great. It's been great to have such honest and upfront information.

I have a few quick hardwood floor questions for you. We're thinking of a medium-dark Oak with as little grain as possible. I've got a young family, so durability and hiding scratches are pretty important. I think I want engineered because of the better structural warranty and stability.

1) Have you heard of Dansk, Columbia and/or Trillium flooring? If so, what do you think of them as compared to Mirage flooring?
2) We really like some of the Mirage flooring, especially since some come in low gloss, but they seemed so much more expensive than other brands. I'm in Winnipeg, so I don't know if it compares to Ontario pricing. Should it possible to get solid 3 1/4" Mirage Oak for a lot less than $8/ft2?
3) If I remove and replace baseboard after installation, do I avoid the need for quarter-round?

Thanks in advance...
Oak with as little grain as possible? That's impossible :D

No, I am not familiar with those companies, except for Mirage. Did you consider Vintage, they do have dealers in Winnipeg. The prices for both of those brands here in GTA are between $5 - $7 on average. You are correct about engineered.

The quarter round dilemma depends on how straight your floors will be after installation & how straight your baseboard is & who will install it. If your installer will shave the bottom to contour to the floor, then you're ok. But you can substitute quarter rounds with shoe molds or door stop, which have a nicer profile & doesn't stick out as much as a reg. quarter round. If your baseboards are painted, stick with painted quarter round, not stained.

[patrob]

So after having Mirage engineered hardwood installed in our basement by the contractor finishing our basement, I discovered there are 3 leftover boxes (each with about 25 sq. ft). Unfortunately the contractor had unwrapped all the boxes prior to installation instead of saving a few boxes unopened (for this very same reason of excess) :evil: .

The wood is still in the boxes, but the wrapping is gone.

I don't suppose the wood is returnable at this stage. I guess the only option is to try and sell it at a steep discount?

About 75 sq. ft., how old was his measuring tape (must have been very stretched) :lol: It's a good idea to keep a couple of pieces for any repairs, etc... How about if you buy a box or two & do an extra room upstairs, instead of selling it at a deep discount, plus it will be hard to sell just 3 boxes.

[alex76]

Hi Patrob,

I have checked a vintage dealer in Ottawa to ask about a quote. He did actually give me a decent price for Vintage, but also mentioned a new builder that has been in the market for more than a year...The manufacturer name is Artc and he said that the quality is pretty good and since it hasn't been in the market that long, the price is about $1.50 cheaper for the same kind compared to Mirage or Vintage...Did you any feedback on this? have you heard about this company?

Thanks in advance,

Alex76

[hajif]

Hi Patrob,


Thanks for the reply. I've been shopping around and found a few deals that seem pretty good, but I don't know about quality, etc. I've listed them below, if you could let me know what you think is the best in terms of colour/quality of the species, stains, or if you have heard of any/all of the manufacturers that would be helpful also. I am ideally looking for something without too much variation between boards in terms of the colour...I would have gone with the Torlys Summit Beech Wenge, but the price point is just too high, about $5.99/sq. ft. at its cheapest...

1) Jatoba "Deep Brown" by Continental Designs (? who this company is), 3mm veneer top with tongue and groove joint design for $4.59/sq. ft

2) Quickstep Majestic Oak Espresso for $4.09/sq. ft

I've also seen some really cheap stuff on this website called Build Direct out of Vancouver, the samples look okay when I ordered them but mostly they are 3" planks. The colour I liked was the White Oak Burberry from Dreya (another unknown manufacturer?). Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Faizal

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

I have checked a vintage dealer in Ottawa to ask about a quote. He did actually give me a decent price for Vintage, but also mentioned a new builder that has been in the market for more than a year...The manufacturer name is Artc and he said that the quality is pretty good and since it hasn't been in the market that long, the price is about $1.50 cheaper for the same kind compared to Mirage or Vintage...Did you any feedback on this? have you heard about this company?

Thanks in advance,

Alex76

Everybody is trying to compare to Vintage or Mirage & maybe some of them are equivalent or better but because of their outstanding cust. service, care for the quality & overall better product none come close. And no I haven't heard of that brand.

[patrob]

Thanks for the reply. I've been shopping around and found a few deals that seem pretty good, but I don't know about quality, etc. I've listed them below, if you could let me know what you think is the best in terms of colour/quality of the species, stains, or if you have heard of any/all of the manufacturers that would be helpful also. I am ideally looking for something without too much variation between boards in terms of the colour...I would have gone with the Torlys Summit Beech Wenge, but the price point is just too high, about $5.99/sq. ft. at its cheapest...

1) Jatoba "Deep Brown" by Continental Designs (? who this company is), 3mm veneer top with tongue and groove joint design for $4.59/sq. ft

2) Quickstep Majestic Oak Espresso for $4.09/sq. ft

I've also seen some really cheap stuff on this website called Build Direct out of Vancouver, the samples look okay when I ordered them but mostly they are 3" planks. The colour I liked was the White Oak Burberry from Dreya (another unknown manufacturer?). Any thoughts?


Go with QuickStep which is part of Torlys. My husband just did a repair on a floor imported by a Vancouver company which took 6 months from the time of order to arrive :rolleyes:

[Roonis]

Hi Alex, can you PM the quote you got for the Vintage hardwood? I'm also in Ottawa and looking for hardwood.

[mdesjardine]

Oak with as little grain as possible? That's impossible :D

No, I am not familiar with those companies, except for Mirage. Did you consider Vintage, they do have dealers in Winnipeg. The prices for both of those brands here in GTA are between $5 - $7 on average. You are correct about engineered.

The quarter round dilemma depends on how straight your floors will be after installation & how straight your baseboard is & who will install it. If your installer will shave the bottom to contour to the floor, then you're ok. But you can substitute quarter rounds with shoe molds or door stop, which have a nicer profile & doesn't stick out as much as a reg. quarter round. If your baseboards are painted, stick with painted quarter round, not stained.

You guys in GTA are very lucky to get such low prices. I got back from a dealer in Winnipeg who quoted the Mirage stained Red Oak in 3 5/16" Engineered with a list of over $11/ft2, but could offer it for just less than $10/ft2. Apparently Mirage has recently increased the prices. The Vintage is cheaper, but not by a whole bunch. I like the Mirage, but I can't bring myself to pay such a high premium for it, especially knowing that it can be had for so much less in other markets. I'm going to have to call around to see if I can get it for a lot less.

[patrob]

You guys in GTA are very lucky to get such low prices. I got back from a dealer in Winnipeg who quoted the Mirage stained Red Oak in 3 5/16" Engineered with a list of over $11/ft2, but could offer it for just less than $10/ft2. Apparently Mirage has recently increased the prices. The Vintage is cheaper, but not by a whole bunch. I like the Mirage, but I can't bring myself to pay such a high premium for it, especially knowing that it can be had for so much less in other markets. I'm going to have to call around to see if I can get it for a lot less.

Wow, maybe their Mirage is gold plated :cheesygri Wow, that is a rip off but I guess there's not too much competition & prices are high. And no Mirage price did not increase so much.

I personally would go with Vintage over Mirage for eng. since it's thicker, better lengths & IMO better quality! Try other dealers in nearby cities.

Good luck.

[mily]

is anyone familiar with simplefloors.com and exotic hardwood?I really like this one
http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Cherry/flooring393.aspx
Do you know how much is duty for hardwood?

[anything for a deal]

what is the meaning of joists?

What direction is correct for laying hardwood strip flooring in an upstairs hallway that goes in an "L" shape (so as not to have a pronounced ladder effect)? Or is the only solution to add another layer of subfloor so you can lay the flooring in parallel to the joists?

Also, when nailing hardwood I invariably scuff the wall with the mallet used on the flooring nailer. Is there anything that will remove these black rubber marks?

[patrob]

is anyone familiar with simplefloors.com and exotic hardwood?I really like this one
http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Cherry/flooring393.aspx
Do you know how much is duty for hardwood?

The price is close to $4 sq. ft. & add your taxes, transportation, duty, your price will go up to around $5-6 sq. ft. for an unknown product. If you shop around, you can get similar product for similar price with a lot less hassle :idea:

[patrob]

what is the meaning of joists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joist ;)

[project240]

Incredible amount of info in this thread I must say. I've been keeping up with the first 45 pages, but I'm a little behind now.

Patrob, are you familiar with prefinished Taun Jacobean flooring? 3/4 x 2 3/4"? Good/Bad product? I''m doing some work in a Rental where the owners would like hardwood however, don't want to spend. This stuff is $2.77/sq ft

Thanks

[patrob]

Incredible amount of info in this thread I must say. I've been keeping up with the first 45 pages, but I'm a little behind now.

Patrob, are you familiar with prefinished Taun Jacobean flooring? 3/4 x 2 3/4"? Good/Bad product? I''m doing some work in a Rental where the owners would like hardwood however, don't want to spend. This stuff is $2.77/sq ft

Thanks

Sorry but not familiar with it. But it's cheap & if you can do it yourself & you don't really care about the quality, then buy it. If your renters wear shoes & don't maintain the floors, I suggest get laminate.

[chaseut]

Hey,

Great thread, I just stumbled on it!

One question, we are currently debating on whether to upgrade a newly built home with 5/8" or 3/4" plywood subfloor. We have hardwood and tiles on the first floor and laminate on the 2nd.

Any thoughts?

[patrob]

Hey,

Great thread, I just stumbled on it!

One question, we are currently debating on whether to upgrade a newly built home with 5/8" or 3/4" plywood subfloor. We have hardwood and tiles on the first floor and laminate on the 2nd.

Any thoughts?

If the upgrade will cost you less than $1,000 then sure. I have not seen any diff. between 5/8" & 3/4" plywood worth paying. If you are referring to OSB & plywood, 5/8" ply is equivalent to 3/4" OSB.

[Techhead]

Patrob,
As requested. Here are some photos of my finished project. The rest can be seen HERE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10608395@N03/collections/72157604315440826/).

Click on each picture to see a larger size 1024x769


Living Room
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2415392336_e92dcb0e1a.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2415392336_e92dcb0e1a_b.jpg) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2414573285_9b7263d5a1.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2414573285_9b7263d5a1_b.jpg)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2415411378_0103801e16.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2415411378_0103801e16_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2438635824_91881e66d5.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2438635824_91881e66d5_b.jpg)


Hallway
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2448198601_3deb023d32.jpg (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2448198601_3deb023d32_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2807370964_03578bd87a.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2807370964_03578bd87a_b.jpg)

Bedroom
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/2806525285_027cbdec76.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/2806525285_027cbdec76_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2807375364_1b4894e575.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2807375364_1b4894e575_b.jpg)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2806530161_1232f6c808.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2806530161_1232f6c808_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2806531877_d3fc70700c.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2806531877_d3fc70700c_b.jpg)

[Techhead]

Sunroom
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2806533657_9e1efa9a0d.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2806533657_9e1efa9a0d_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2806535709_e25c2df94d.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2806535709_e25c2df94d_b.jpg)

[Hugh Jass]

Patrob,
As requested. Here are some photos of my finished project. The rest can be seen HERE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10608395@N03/collections/72157604315440826/).




Great post techhead, you've done a marvellous job. I like the colour of the sunrooom wood the most. You did a nice job on the baseboards in the bedroom. Did you get them in Home Depot?

I'm in the middle of doing my basement ( laminate) and a bedroom ( Oak). Was going to take 'before and after' pics but the missus took the camera to Europe. Floors are a surprise for when she gets back.

[Techhead]

Great post techhead, you've done a marvellous job. I like the colour of the sunrooom wood the most. You did a nice job on the baseboards in the bedroom. Did you get them in Home Depot?
I'm in the middle of doing my basement ( laminate) and a bedroom ( Oak). Was going to take 'before and after' pics but the missus took the camera to Europe. Floors are a surprise for when she gets back.

ThanX. I have always done before and after pic's off all my project execpt for one. :( Camera was on the fritz that week.

The baseboards are from HomeDepot but (here's the kicker) I bought them 8yrs ago. They are actual hardwood and not particalboard. :lol:

When I get a chance I'll upload and post pic's of my laminate project completed about 6yrs ago, almost 700 sq. ft. in the basement.

All the floors are the same just for some reason the sunroom looks darker.
The flooring is Superior Natural White Oak, I'm not a fan of dark floors.

[BartBandy]

patrob, thanks for this thread. It has been helpful.

I'm about to start my flooring project this weekend. Almost a complete basement, in laminate. The basement can be damp, and there is mold to deal with. We are cleaning that with Mold Control from Home Depot (I also know someone involved in the development of it - it's good stuff). Once clean, we are laying down DeltaFL first. Then, we have Torlys laminate foam and Torleys Park Lane laminate from Darmaga - same stuff as Quickstep Eligna 8mm. I have a sliding compound mitre saw, and I'm using this project as an excuse to buy a table saw. I'm set.

I was watching the Torlys installation video, and they recommend wrapping the foam up the wall to form a continuous vapour barrier. We're installing DeltaFL to let the floor breathe a little, and for a better thermal break. If we tape the foam to the wall, we eliminate the ability of the DeltaFL to allow the slab to breathe.

I'm planning on not wrapping or taping the foam up the wall. What is your take on that?

[patrob]

Patrob,
As requested. Here are some photos of my finished project. The rest can be seen

Great job :) Have you thought about a flush-mount vent by the door? Where the tiles used to be...

[patrob]

patrob, thanks for this thread. It has been helpful.

I'm about to start my flooring project this weekend. Almost a complete basement, in laminate. The basement can be damp, and there is mold to deal with. We are cleaning that with Mold Control from Home Depot (I also know someone involved in the development of it - it's good stuff). Once clean, we are laying down DeltaFL first. Then, we have Torlys laminate foam and Torleys Park Lane laminate from Darmaga - same stuff as Quickstep Eligna 8mm. I have a sliding compound mitre saw, and I'm using this project as an excuse to buy a table saw. I'm set.

I was watching the Torlys installation video, and they recommend wrapping the foam up the wall to form a continuous vapour barrier. We're installing DeltaFL to let the floor breathe a little, and for a better thermal break. If we tape the foam to the wall, we eliminate the ability of the DeltaFL to allow the slab to breathe.

I'm planning on not wrapping or taping the foam up the wall. What is your take on that?

IMO no need to tape the underlay up the wall, especially with that floor system.

[Techhead]

Great job :) Have you thought about a flush-mount vent by the door? Where the tiles used to be...

ThanX

I have not. It is an odd size vent 2-1/4" wide x 10" in lenght.

I tryed to remove it but the ceiling in that part of the basement is finished and I think in the winter it is there to keep that area warm.

Where can I get a look at a flush mount vent? Never mind.. :cheesygri Just googled and found them.. HERE (http://www.fretworks.com/vents/flushmontWhiteOak.html) Even in Ontario. :lol:

I will have to show the warden and see if she would mind me slicing up the finnished floor. :twisted: ThanX for the idear.

[irisray]

Your floors look beautiful Techhead. Thanks for posting the pics.

[irisray]

Hi Patrob:

I just wanted to thank you for all your help and answering my many questions. I went with Vintage white oak musket. The floor is down and I love it. The colour is great, and you were dead on about the longer lengths. The shorter boards don't look at that short and it has a nice elegant feel to it.

Thank you.

[jimgiggles]

Just about finished installing 1200 sq. ft of exotic hardwood, but i have a couple of finishing questions..

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8702/img1764mo5.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1764mo5.jpg)

What should i use to wrap around and finish that with 3/4 hardwood? I bought some 11/16" corner moulding and did the whole bending in the sun with water trick, but it bent the wrong way.. there must be an easier way..

Second question..

I'm not sure how i finish off the bullnose before my step, can i cut the bullnose? or cut the hardwood plank, reason i didn't start off the end of the stair is because i started it off in the master room.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4125/img1767nt5.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1767nt5.jpg)

It looks like a good fit in the picture, but just after that blue line is a piece of pine, that was used as carpet edging when the stairs were carpeted, i would rather cut the bull nose, and have to doctor it at the edge of the stair, as opposed to having a cut plank of hardwood, any idea's or suggestions? And.. i don't want to make the stair even narrower than it already is.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6642/img1769bm5.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1769bm5.jpg)

[patrob]

ThanX

I have not. It is an odd size vent 2-1/4" wide x 10" in lenght.

I tryed to remove it but the ceiling in that part of the basement is finished and I think in the winter it is there to keep that area warm.

Where can I get a look at a flush mount vent? Never mind.. :cheesygri Just googled and found them.. HERE (http://www.fretworks.com/vents/flushmontWhiteOak.html) Even in Ontario. :lol:

I will have to show the warden and see if she would mind me slicing up the finnished floor. :twisted: ThanX for the idear.

When you get the vent, mark it out on the floor, use a router & sharp chisel to square off the corners. It's not that hard, you shouldn't do any other damage.

[patrob]

Hi Patrob:

I just wanted to thank you for all your help and answering my many questions. I went with Vintage white oak musket. The floor is down and I love it. The colour is great, and you were dead on about the longer lengths. The shorter boards don't look at that short and it has a nice elegant feel to it.

Thank you.

No problem, glad you are happy with the floors, post some pics :)

[patrob]

Just about finished installing 1200 sq. ft of exotic hardwood, but i have a couple of finishing questions..


What should i use to wrap around and finish that with 3/4 hardwood? I bought some 11/16" corner moulding and did the whole bending in the sun with water trick, but it bent the wrong way.. there must be an easier way..

Second question..

I'm not sure how i finish off the bullnose before my step, can i cut the bullnose? or cut the hardwood plank, reason i didn't start off the end of the stair is because i started it off in the master room.


It looks like a good fit in the picture, but just after that blue line is a piece of pine, that was used as carpet edging when the stairs were carpeted, i would rather cut the bull nose, and have to doctor it at the edge of the stair, as opposed to having a cut plank of hardwood, any idea's or suggestions? And.. i don't want to make the stair even narrower than it already is.



1) You have to remove the bull nose for carpet (pine). It cannot be there, it's not a supporting structure. Remove those pickets, keep going with the nosing but don't install the nosing & the last board at the stairs. Dry fit & you will have to cut that board. But to make it nice & solid, cut it to size & make a groove in the back of the board & use a 1/4" plywood as a new tongue to join the 2 boards together. If the nosing does not have a groove, make it so the tongue from the board joins with the "new" groove in the nosing! Use PL for the nosing.

2) On the half-moon/plant ledge, it looks nicer if you custom order a piece of nosing (round) but you can also use a very thin bendable piece of mahogany, preferably around 1 1/2" to 2" wide, stain before installing & nail it to the round along the drywall but at the same time checking the height for hardwood. Or also have seen it finished in white, made from MDF 1 piece, 1/2" overhang & looked pretty nice too.

I hope you will not leave those pickets in the orig. colour with those beautiful floors :D

[jimgiggles]

1) You have to remove the bull nose for carpet (pine). It cannot be there, it's not a supporting structure. Remove those pickets, keep going with the nosing but don't install the nosing & the last board at the stairs. Dry fit & you will have to cut that board. But to make it nice & solid, cut it to size & make a groove in the back of the board & use a 1/4" plywood as a new tongue to join the 2 boards together. If the nosing does not have a groove, make it so the tongue from the board joins with the "new" groove in the nosing! Use PL for the nosing.

2) On the half-moon/plant ledge, it looks nicer if you custom order a piece of nosing (round) but you can also use a very thin bendable piece of mahogany, preferably around 1 1/2" to 2" wide, stain before installing & nail it to the round along the drywall but at the same time checking the height for hardwood. Or also have seen it finished in white, made from MDF 1 piece, 1/2" overhang & looked pretty nice too.

I hope you will not leave those pickets in the orig. colour with those beautiful floors :D

Haha, definitely not.. I plan on painting those pickets white, and staining the railing same colour as my floors. I still have all the finishings to do. I was at rona tonight and found some white LDF baseboards that will be good for wrapping around, but i can't seem to think of anything to sit on the top of that, because i can't trim the wood perfectly around that bend, i've got some ugly spots, and would ideally like to have some sort on cover for that. Where can i custom order something like that?

Thanks for the help, i fully understand what you mean about the bullnosing on the stairs.. that idea will be perfect.

Thanks

[patrob]

Haha, definitely not.. I plan on painting those pickets white, and staining the railing same colour as my floors. I still have all the finishings to do. I was at rona tonight and found some white LDF baseboards that will be good for wrapping around, but i can't seem to think of anything to sit on the top of that, because i can't trim the wood perfectly around that bend, i've got some ugly spots, and would ideally like to have some sort on cover for that. Where can i custom order something like that?

Thanks for the help, i fully understand what you mean about the bullnosing on the stairs.. that idea will be perfect.

Thanks

If you are referring to a round nosing for the edge, make a template, mark out which side up & which side will be exposed with the lip & take it to any stair company. But if you are thinking about 1 piece (like shelf) piece of wood, you can make that yourself from MDF or even oak veneered ply. You can paint it white or stain to the colour of the wood.
You did all that work yourself, this should be an easy task :D

[jimgiggles]

And hopefully i have never have to again, i've been doing hardwood for the last 2 months, and i can't tell you how happy i am that its almost over :)

Since we're doing a little show and tell here, i've got a few pictures of what i've done so far.. I have a lot of finishing to do still, but atleat the wood is down :)

This is my master bedroom here..
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5458/canons2sonia1350nx0.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canons2sonia1350nx0.jpg)

2nd Bedroom
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8795/canons2sonia1357cy1.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canons2sonia1357cy1.jpg)

Hallway coming out of 3rd bedroom, pickets and railing are not finished yet, I will be going with white pickets, and the hand rail stained the same colour as the floors.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/4046/img1777ja3.th.jpg (http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1777ja3.jpg)

For the 3rd bedroom I actually changed the grain of the wood, because the joists started running the other way..
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9440/img1779cg9.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1779cg9.jpg)

And then the living room/dining room
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4260/canons2sonia1373vr8.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canons2sonia1373vr8.jpg)

And the family room..

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7399/canons2sonia1428uf6.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canons2sonia1428uf6.jpg)

I did this pretty much single handed, and it was my first time doing hardwood.. It took me a long time, but well worth it.

Now, on to the stairs.. :eek:

[patrob]

Looks good, thanks for sharing :)

If I can make a suggestion, how about adding a stained post instead of continuous handrail, at the 1st step going down. Would look much nicer & it would feel more solid.

[Hugh Jass]

Great work Jim, you must be very proud of yourself.

[r2traps]

I'm looking to get some parquet refinished. Anyone have any recommendations for floor refinishing services/companies? I'm already getting some quotes from Alliance Floor Source and HDB Interiors (based on their positive reviews on Homestars.com), but any recommendations are more than welcome! Going rate seems to be about $3.50/sq ft.

[jimgiggles]

Looks good, thanks for sharing :)

If I can make a suggestion, how about adding a stained post instead of continuous handrail, at the 1st step going down. Would look much nicer & it would feel more solid.

Great idea!! I do find the handrail a bit shaky, i'm sure that would make it much more stable, and thanks for the compliments guys, Its a mix of exotic kempas, and marbeau, i had to turn the pressure down on my nailer, because i was splitting boards every so often, the Campbell Hausfield Cleat Nailer worked like a charm, i only had it jam up once, for the $200 price tag.. i highly recommend it.

[paul 22]

Hello,

I am a long time reader and first time poster. I have a question about the difficulty involved and switching from a ceramic floor to a hardwood floor. I was wondering if it is difficult to do and whether or not you have to change out all your subfloor. I would also like to say that this is great forum and very helpful to me.

Thanks

[67sportfury]

I have 8'x8'of faded hardwood surrounded by nice shinning floor. Will a coat of floor polyurathane bring it back to life?

[patrob]

Hello,

I am a long time reader and first time poster. I have a question about the difficulty involved and switching from a ceramic floor to a hardwood floor. I was wondering if it is difficult to do and whether or not you have to change out all your subfloor. I would also like to say that this is great forum and very helpful to me.

Thanks

All you have to do is remove the tiles, including the scratch (steel mesh) & all the staples. It's a messy job. No need to remove your sub-floor.

[patrob]

I have 8'x8'of faded hardwood surrounded by nice shinning floor. Will a coat of floor polyurathane bring it back to life?

Light sand & coat but more likely you will have to do an entire area (room). If you do a patch, it will show.

[Barayolayosa]

Hi patrob, I've got a question (likely the first of many):

I'm contemplating installing prefinished maple hardwood in my home. There's a couple of areas where I'd like to have a transition strip on both "ends" of a number of rows of board - I presume in this case I will not be able to have an expansion gap for these rows?

I've read that the expansion occurs in the width (ie from tongue to groove), and not in length - is this true? Does this mean I only need the gap on two sides of my room, and not on the walls perpendicular to the planks?

Thanks in advance for your help - this thread is deserving of its 5-star rating!!

[Barayolayosa]

Another question (already... lol). Where should my first row be? I read that it should be on the longest exterior wall possible, so I'm thinking the very top wall next to the corner fireplace, and work my way towards the front door (at the bottom of the image). Hopefully I can get it straight, but I don't really know how to make sure it's square - ie, there's no opposing wall that I can measure from. Should I just measure out from that wall the width of the board plus my expansion gap and off I go?

Any suggestions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Barayolayosa/FloorPlan.jpg

[patrob]

I'm looking to get some parquet refinished. Anyone have any recommendations for floor refinishing services/companies? I'm already getting some quotes from Alliance Floor Source and HDB Interiors (based on their positive reviews on Homestars.com), but any recommendations are more than welcome! Going rate seems to be about $3.50/sq ft.

I must have missed your post somehow :D I will PM you with info.

[patrob]

Hi patrob, I've got a question (likely the first of many):

I'm contemplating installing prefinished maple hardwood in my home. There's a couple of areas where I'd like to have a transition strip on both "ends" of a number of rows of board - I presume in this case I will not be able to have an expansion gap for these rows?

I've read that the expansion occurs in the width (ie from tongue to groove), and not in length - is this true? Does this mean I only need the gap on two sides of my room, and not on the walls perpendicular to the planks?

Thanks in advance for your help - this thread is deserving of its 5-star rating!!

Thanks ;)

What do you mean by "transition strip"? From the drawing it's all open area & possibly it should run in one direction, unless you are talking about borders.

Wood expands in width, unless you have a major water damage then it expands everywhere :cheesygri But leave an expansion gap all the way around the walls. Go tight to the tiles, etc.

Another question (already... lol). Where should my first row be? I read that it should be on the longest exterior wall possible, so I'm thinking the very top wall next to the corner fireplace, and work my way towards the front door (at the bottom of the image). Hopefully I can get it straight, but I don't really know how to make sure it's square - ie, there's no opposing wall that I can measure from. Should I just measure out from that wall the width of the board plus my expansion gap and off I go?

Any suggestions?

It all depends which direction your joists are running. The hardwood is supposed to be installed across the joists. To check for square, measure equal distance from where your sofa is & in front of the stairs about 5 feet. Shoot a line right in the middle of the hallway front to back. From that line you can check all your other walls, what's straight or off. IMO I would (depending on the joists) start from the powder room wall, so you have a nice wide threshold then work my way back towards the kitchen & dining. And turn around towards the fireplace & stairs.

If the joists are running front to back, which I doubt, you have the right idea starting from the fireplace wall. You can check how parallel is the wall in dining room. The rest won't matter, it's all short distances.

[Barayolayosa]

Thanks, Patrob!

Yes, by transition strip all I really meant was one fixed object to another, where there was no room to put an expansion gap. I just used that as an example.

The joists are definitely running from the front to back. It's a townhouse, if that makes a difference as to the direction of the joists.

We're already considering a change in plans. Now, we like the idea of tiles in the front porch, with the hardwood beginning in the hallway and on down through the kitchen etc. We'll also put the same tile in the powder room.

In this case, I believe I should start at the front of the house and work back - that way we'll be sure to get a full board, free from error to butt up against the tile. Of course, we'll use a proper strip as a transition from the tile to the wood.

[Mint]

Great thread, i've been reading it on and off since it was created.

I plan to put in some new hard wood floors in a 7.5' x 7.5' den. When i pulled off the old hardwood (which was covered in glue from vinyl being installed) this was what's left:
http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=denbg2.jpg

I plan to use 5/8" 4'x4' plywood subfloor. Is this size OK? Is there a certain size plywood I should be using?

In addition, I just got a flyer from "Hardwood Flooring Supermarket" located and Dufferin and Lawrence. It says they have hardwood starting at $2.69/sqft (from $4.29). Have you been to this place before? Should I stay away since it says "Supermarket"?

If I do stay away, is there a cheap place to get quality hardwood? It seems like Bruce is a popular one.

TIA Patrob.

[slaman]

Can you provide me the pros and cons of solid hardwood flooring over engineered hardwood flooring?

Do you think that this is 7.5" jatoba engineered hardwood flooring? I have no idea the type of wood, but I love the thickness and colour...

http://slaman.homeip.net/images/hardwoodfloor/floor2.jpg

Also, do you know where I could find either solid hardwood or engineered hardwood jatoba 7.5" flooring in the GTA?

[patrob]

Thanks, Patrob!

Yes, by transition strip all I really meant was one fixed object to another, where there was no room to put an expansion gap. I just used that as an example.

The joists are definitely running from the front to back. It's a townhouse, if that makes a difference as to the direction of the joists.

We're already considering a change in plans. Now, we like the idea of tiles in the front porch, with the hardwood beginning in the hallway and on down through the kitchen etc. We'll also put the same tile in the powder room.

In this case, I believe I should start at the front of the house and work back - that way we'll be sure to get a full board, free from error to butt up against the tile. Of course, we'll use a proper strip as a transition from the tile to the wood.

I agree with having tiles at the entrance point. I am surprised though that the builder ran the joists front to back, you must have at least 2 joint points (beams). Check for true straight at those points. Otherwise you have the right idea about starting from the tiles up. Make sure it's square.

Good luck

[patrob]

Great thread, i've been reading it on and off since it was created.

I plan to put in some new hard wood floors in a 7.5' x 7.5' den. When i pulled off the old hardwood (which was covered in glue from vinyl being installed) this was what's left:
http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=denbg2.jpg

I plan to use 5/8" 4'x4' plywood subfloor. Is this size OK? Is there a certain size plywood I should be using?

In addition, I just got a flyer from "Hardwood Flooring Supermarket" located and Dufferin and Lawrence. It says they have hardwood starting at $2.69/sqft (from $4.29). Have you been to this place before? Should I stay away since it says "Supermarket"?

If I do stay away, is there a cheap place to get quality hardwood? It seems like Bruce is a popular one.

TIA Patrob.

It's a wooden plank sub-floor & it should be at least 3/4" thick. 1/4" multi-ply is adequate enough or 3/8", unless you want to bring it up to certain height.

I never shop at auctions, "supermarkets" or no name flooring suppliers. I stay away from Asian made products because you just never know what you are getting. A lot of packaging is very deceiving & many say "Canada" or "USA" but in a small print somewhere on a package, it says "imported" & we all know where from :rolleyes: Bruce IMO is better from the lower grade products. If you are looking for cheap & quality all in one sentence, it's not going to happen.

Is that all the wood you need just for that den? It's only 60 sq. ft. of wood, with that amount, why not splurge & get some good quality stuff? It will not cost you that much more, maybe $100 more...

[patrob]

Can you provide me the pros and cons of solid hardwood flooring over engineered hardwood flooring?

Do you think that this is 7.5" jatoba engineered hardwood flooring? I have no idea the type of wood, but I love the thickness and colour...

Also, do you know where I could find either solid hardwood or engineered hardwood jatoba 7.5" flooring in the GTA?

3/4" solid hardwood can only be nailed down to a sub-floor. Engineered is a more stable product & can be installed floated, glue down or nail down. I believe this is a condo & if it's a concrete sub-floor, you need engineered. Can't tell for sure if it's Jatoba, looks like some sort of exotic species but it's not domestic for sure.
7 1/2" is an odd size & now manufacturers stay around 5". But I am sure you can still find it somewhere, sorry can't help you on that one.

[live wire]

Hope this question hasn't been answered yet.

If I find some hardwood flooring on sale this winter, but don't want to install it until the spring/summer time. Is there any problems with storing it for so long?? Will the planks warp or bend??

Thanks

[patrob]

Hope this question hasn't been answered yet.

If I find some hardwood flooring on sale this winter, but don't want to install it until the spring/summer time. Is there any problems with storing it for so long?? Will the planks warp or bend??

Thanks

As long as you keep the wood inside the house (not garage or basement unless you keep the same temps there as the rest of the house) it will be fine.

[corkercoon]

Hi there,

I did a quick search and didn't see this topic come up on the thread. I am going to be laying hardwood down within the next year in a family room and I had a couple of questions.

- If the floor is a concrete pad (above grade) with no moisture issues, what would be the best way to lay solid nail-down hardwood?
- When laying hardwood around a stone fireplace that has an un-even edge, what is the best way to finish it so it looks professional? I don't think any sort of trim would work, and not sure if getting a colour matching wood filler to fill the gap would be the way to go.

I am not certain I am going to go with solid hardwood, as an engineered version is possible. However, I want to be flexible to go either way.

Thanks, I have really enjoyed this thread.

[Techhead]

3/4" solid hardwood can only be nailed down to a sub-floor. Engineered is a more stable product & can be installed floated, glue down or nail down. I believe this is a condo & if it's a concrete sub-floor, you need engineered.

Hi there,

I did a quick search and didn't see this topic come up on the thread. I am going to be laying hardwood down within the next year in a family room and I had a couple of questions.

- If the floor is a concrete pad (above grade) with no moisture issues, what would be the best way to lay solid nail-down hardwood?
- When laying hardwood around a stone fireplace that has an un-even edge, what is the best way to finish it so it looks professional? I don't think any sort of trim would work, and not sure if getting a colour matching wood filler to fill the gap would be the way to go.

I am not certain I am going to go with solid hardwood, as an engineered version is possible. However, I want to be flexible to go either way.

Thanks, I have really enjoyed this thread.

patrob answers your question on conrete floor. :cheesygri See above quote.

Q2 - You don't want the floor up too toght against the hearth, the wood will expand and contract. If it's right up against the hearth it will buckle.


To have the choice of 3/4, you would have to build up a sub-floor.

[corkercoon]

Sorry, I did know I would have to build up a sub floor to nail the solid hardwood into. I have just read that you should put 6mil poly between the concrete and the built up subfloor to combat any residual moisture. The engineered (floating) I have seen just do not have the look I liked (perhaps that is different now).
As for the fireplace, a gap next to the stone would look awful (as I have seen it left that way before), and I was curious of how the professionals would finish a section like that.
I appreciate the response.

[Anew]

Hi.
I came across this site, it's wonderful.
I am in the midst of picking a hardwood for our floors. We have an almost 100 year old house, lived her for almost 18 years, things are looking a little tired. WE have ceramic in the foyer and kitchen,(which we put in and I have hated since day one.)...never suited the house. We also have strip oak flooring in the living and dining room and carpet in the family room, this will all be removed and be replaced with new hardwood flooring. YIPEE!!!! I'm so excited but this is a HUGE decision.

The ceramic in the foyer has a cement base and I was wondering if this cement should be removed to put solid hardwood down or just remove the ceramic and put engineered hardwood on the cement.
I think we will probably remove the cement so that the floors will be consistent through out the main floor.

We have alot of wood in the house, (stairs, baseboards, trim, beamed ceiling in the Living room etc) and the color is somewhat dark as it aged I guess over the years. I really love the darker woods, love walnut for example, for hardwood flooring but I am afraid that it will just be too much dark? I thought about going with a slightly stained, i mean a light stained red oak 3 1/4" plank. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what would be the most appropriate for the age of the house etc...
I was also thinking of painting the trim and baseboards white, (not the beam ceilings though, that is where I draw the line for sure)...yikes, feel like that is almost sac religious (sp) but I like the idea of a lighter airier fresher feel to the house. At the same time it may take away from the "old house" charm.... See how confused I am??

Ok, I typed that as fast as I talk so I hope it makes sense.
I would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Kind Regards : )

[patrob]

patrob answers your question on conrete floor. :cheesygri See above quote.


Thanks :D
Sorry, I did know I would have to build up a sub floor to nail the solid hardwood into. I have just read that you should put 6mil poly between the concrete and the built up subfloor to combat any residual moisture. The engineered (floating) I have seen just do not have the look I liked (perhaps that is different now).
As for the fireplace, a gap next to the stone would look awful (as I have seen it left that way before), and I was curious of how the professionals would finish a section like that.
I appreciate the response.

You don't have to build a sub-floor. You can glue down engineered either 9/16" or 3/4" solid sawn from Vintage right onto the concrete slab. No need for poly. Moisture cured adhesive is one of the best for that. That will give you a solid floor & you can cut it tight (to shape) to the stone. Yes it will take time, especially if it's natural stone but looks better. You don't have to float it if you don't like it & with Vintage you wouldn't see the diff. between solid & engineered :idea: It has the same look, finish & bevel.

Here is a sample of Vintage eng. floor on concrete...
http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/roomlarge/ce_whiteoakcambridgeestate.jpg

[patrob]

Hi.
I came across this site, it's wonderful.
I am in the midst of picking a hardwood for our floors. We have an almost 100 year old house, lived her for almost 18 years, things are looking a little tired. WE have ceramic in the foyer and kitchen,(which we put in and I have hated since day one.)...never suited the house. We also have strip oak flooring in the living and dining room and carpet in the family room, this will all be removed and be replaced with new hardwood flooring. YIPEE!!!! I'm so excited but this is a HUGE decision.

The ceramic in the foyer has a cement base and I was wondering if this cement should be removed to put solid hardwood down or just remove the ceramic and put engineered hardwood on the cement.
I think we will probably remove the cement so that the floors will be consistent through out the main floor.

We have alot of wood in the house, (stairs, baseboards, trim, beamed ceiling in the Living room etc) and the color is somewhat dark as it aged I guess over the years. I really love the darker woods, love walnut for example, for hardwood flooring but I am afraid that it will just be too much dark? I thought about going with a slightly stained, i mean a light stained red oak 3 1/4" plank. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what would be the most appropriate for the age of the house etc...
I was also thinking of painting the trim and baseboards white, (not the beam ceilings though, that is where I draw the line for sure)...yikes, feel like that is almost sac religious (sp) but I like the idea of a lighter airier fresher feel to the house. At the same time it may take away from the "old house" charm.... See how confused I am??

Ok, I typed that as fast as I talk so I hope it makes sense.
I would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Kind Regards : )

If you like walnut & darker woods, just do it. The paint will break up all the darker wood & I agree about painting the baseboards & trim but leave the wooden beams. It will totally freshen up the house & give it a more updated look. Just don't use pure white, go off white or one of those "designer" colours.

The cement has to be removed to bare sub-floor. All nails & staples pulled out. Sub-floor boards fixed & everything as level & straight as possible.

Good luck :)

[r2traps]

I'm currently getting quotes from various companies to refinish about 300 square feet of parquet flooring in my basement. I've only been in the home for 2 years, but from what I can guess, the parquet flooring seems to be the original flooring, about 20-25 years old. It's in good shape overall, but shows wear in the high traffic areas (varnish has worn down and some scratches here and there). One of the refinishers that came to see my floor mentioned that he got his parquet restained in his home several years ago. he said at the time of refinishing it looked great, but about 3 years later it started deteriorating. He said it was due to the age of the floor and the fact that it was probably refinished more than once. Also, parquet is pretty thin. While he can do the refinishing job, he recommended putting in laminate directly over the parquet flooring instead. I'm not too crazy about laminate, we have it on our upper floor and it's hard to clean and easy to damage. I'm still hoping to refinish my floor, but worried that I'll just be throwing money away. Now I'm thinking about hardwood, but I know the cost will increase significantly. Thoughts?

[Anew]

....I can get hardwood flooring for significantly cheaper if it's manufactured in China. I really like Walnut and there is at least a 2 dollar difference per square foot. I realize the labor is cheaper in China hence the lower price. I'm wondering about the quality though. Am I guaranteed a better quality if get it from a Canadian manufacturer? (not sure why) It is the same tree, Is it cut differently? How would it be different? I see samples and I can't see any difference but ofcourse it's just a sample.
Thanks for any information. 2 dollars is quite a difference if i'm doing about 1,300 square feet.

[utopianbl]

Hey PatRob,

Me and my wife are purchasing a condo soon. We are extremely excited. Right now the Condo is covered with carpet. I want to replace the carpeted area, in the living room and passage way into the living room from the entry doors, with hardwood or tiles (European tiles) - approximately 500 SQ-Ft. I have some questions I was hoping you could help me with:

1. Based on what I have read a competitive rate for a good piece of hardwood per sq-ft is $4. Plus installation cost between $1 and $2. Am I right here?
2. Can you suggest some good/efficient contractor/agency that can do my floors
3. How long does this whole process take. How long should we wait before we can walk and place furniture over the wood after installation?
4. What is the length of warranty usually carried by these independent contractors?

I have many more questions, but I am hoping to go through this thread again. In the mean time I hope you can help us with our questions.

thanks again!

[oliverstwist]

Hi, I'm sure this question has already been answered in the 58 pages, but if you don't mind, please re-answer :) Up to you.

Anyhow, I just bought a condo and the hardwood is pretty scratched up, especially in the office (which connects from the garage, so it's clear he'd just walk in with rocks under shoes). I was wondering, is scratching generally just damage to the finish? Also, what kind of work is required to redo the finish (ie. pre-sanding, or just applying some product)? How much would I expect to pay someone to do this kind of job per square foot?

Thanks in advance. Not just sucking up, but threads like this really make RFD awesome.

[patrob]

I'm currently getting quotes from various companies to refinish about 300 square feet of parquet flooring in my basement. I've only been in the home for 2 years, but from what I can guess, the parquet flooring seems to be the original flooring, about 20-25 years old. It's in good shape overall, but shows wear in the high traffic areas (varnish has worn down and some scratches here and there). One of the refinishers that came to see my floor mentioned that he got his parquet restained in his home several years ago. he said at the time of refinishing it looked great, but about 3 years later it started deteriorating. He said it was due to the age of the floor and the fact that it was probably refinished more than once. Also, parquet is pretty thin. While he can do the refinishing job, he recommended putting in laminate directly over the parquet flooring instead. I'm not too crazy about laminate, we have it on our upper floor and it's hard to clean and easy to damage. I'm still hoping to refinish my floor, but worried that I'll just be throwing money away. Now I'm thinking about hardwood, but I know the cost will increase significantly. Thoughts?

I am surprised about your laminate, laminate usually is very easy to clean & hard to damage. If you are refinishing your floors, even 100 yrs. old, it should not deteriorate after 3 years, unless you have very heavy traffic.

An extra coat of varnish would help a lot. You said your parquet is approx. 25 yr. old, and if it was finished once, you can easily do it one more time. Unfinished parquet is 3/8", after finishing it's little bit thinner & you are saying it's in the basement, so it's glue to the concrete most likely. If it's not popping up, I would re-finish it. Keep it approx. same colour or slightly darker, so you don't have to sand deep down below the stain.

[patrob]

....I can get hardwood flooring for significantly cheaper if it's manufactured in China. I really like Walnut and there is at least a 2 dollar difference per square foot. I realize the labor is cheaper in China hence the lower price. I'm wondering about the quality though. Am I guaranteed a better quality if get it from a Canadian manufacturer? (not sure why) It is the same tree, Is it cut differently? How would it be different? I see samples and I can't see any difference but ofcourse it's just a sample.
Thanks for any information. 2 dollars is quite a difference if i'm doing about 1,300 square feet.

Chinese hardwood, for example: 3/4" is not really 3/4", it's little less. Red oak looks like white oak, Asian oak has a little diff. grain, milling has improved a little bit but it's still not there. It also comes in preset lengths (only 2, 3 or 4 lengths in the box only) which is harder to work with because it gives you repeated pattern. But the varnish sucks! It's very delicate & you can easily see the dents when you scratch it with your finger nail. So imagine what happens in heavier traffic :rolleyes: And when it's scratched, it shows a white mark.

Canadian hardwood manufacturers set the worldwide standards for hardwood floors. Canadians care more about the quality of milling, uniform stain & finish. The lengths of the planks is also much better. And you do have a warranty.

If you don't want to pay the $2 more, go with the Canadian manufacturer, choose 2nd grade which would be even better than the 1st grade from China.

But don't forget, you don't replace your floors every couple of years, like your car & it's part of your house that takes the most abuse :idea:

[patrob]

Hey PatRob,

Me and my wife are purchasing a condo soon. We are extremely excited. Right now the Condo is covered with carpet. I want to replace the carpeted area, in the living room and passage way into the living room from the entry doors, with hardwood or tiles (European tiles) - approximately 500 SQ-Ft. I have some questions I was hoping you could help me with:

1. Based on what I have read a competitive rate for a good piece of hardwood per sq-ft is $4. Plus installation cost between $1 and $2. Am I right here?
2. Can you suggest some good/efficient contractor/agency that can do my floors
3. How long does this whole process take. How long should we wait before we can walk and place furniture over the wood after installation?
4. What is the length of warranty usually carried by these independent contractors?

I have many more questions, but I am hoping to go through this thread again. In the mean time I hope you can help us with our questions.

thanks again!

1. "Competitive" rate for hardwood is questionable, depends what you want, the quality of the product, etc. Condos are usually more expensive, it takes diff. wood (if you want hardwood), special underlay, glues & the rate of $1 - $2 is not from a contractor that specializes in floors only. Maybe for laminate installation but not for hardwood in a condo.

2. I can but not for that price.

3. It all depends what needs to be done & don't forget limited work hours in a condo:
- remove carpets
- install underlays
- install floor
- finish trim
- clean up

So a job like that should take 2-3 days (2 guys). Glue down installation requires 24 hours before traffic but you can walk on it gently soon right after installation.

4. I can only speak for myself, I can't say what others offer but if there is a problem on my job that is my fault, I will fix it with no questions. So far it never happened :)

[patrob]

Hi, I'm sure this question has already been answered in the 58 pages, but if you don't mind, please re-answer :) Up to you.

Anyhow, I just bought a condo and the hardwood is pretty scratched up, especially in the office (which connects from the garage, so it's clear he'd just walk in with rocks under shoes). I was wondering, is scratching generally just damage to the finish? Also, what kind of work is required to redo the finish (ie. pre-sanding, or just applying some product)? How much would I expect to pay someone to do this kind of job per square foot?

Thanks in advance. Not just sucking up, but threads like this really make RFD awesome.

You will have to most likely re-finish that room. You cannot apply a coat of finish on a damaged floor. Each job is diff, so the price will vary.
But min. they charge is $2 & up.

[Odd I/O]

Sunroom
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2806533657_9e1efa9a0d.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2806533657_9e1efa9a0d_b.jpg) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2806535709_e25c2df94d.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2806535709_e25c2df94d_b.jpg)

Techhead, looks like you did a fantastic job installing your wood floors. But why did you put in a plywood subfloor in the bedroom before installing the hardwood floor? I thought you only needed to do that when installing over concrete like in the basement? Isn't that called a floating floor?

I'm thinking about doing some DIY hardwood floor installation myself so your answer would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[patrob]

Techhead, looks like you did a fantastic job installing your wood floors. But why did you put in a plywood subfloor in the bedroom before installing the hardwood floor? I thought you only needed to do that when installing over concrete like in the basement? Isn't that called a floating floor?

I'm thinking about doing some DIY hardwood floor installation myself so your answer would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Let me try to answer, as you see on the pic, Techhead has boards on 45 as the sub-floor. The plywood screwed in to joists through the existing sub-floor, makes the sub-floor stronger & a lot more flat for a new floor. A floating floor is only engineered or laminate when it's joint with tongue & groove only (click or glue) & it's not fastened to the sub-floor (nailed or glued down). Techhead's floors are nailed down & not floating.

Hope this helps :)

[GTT1]

Hardwood in a kitchen?

We are in the process of purchasing a home and have decided on hardwood everywhere except front foyer, laundry room and all bathrooms. These areas will be ceramic tile. We had been planning on putting tile in the kitchen but after seeing a home same as ours where they used hardwood we are leaning towards this approach. While we believe tile to be much more practical the kitchen and great room flow together and the seamless look of all hardwood is much nicer.

We are seniors and probably don't have to worry as much about spills and messes as we would with kids, pets etc.

Do many of you have hardwood in the kitchen and how many regret not using tile or linoleum?

[Odd I/O]

Let me try to answer, as you see on the pic, Techhead has boards on 45 as the sub-floor. The plywood screwed in to joists through the existing sub-floor, makes the sub-floor stronger & a lot more flat for a new floor. A floating floor is only engineered or laminate when it's joint with tongue & groove only (click or glue) & it's not fastened to the sub-floor (nailed or glued down). Techhead's floors are nailed down & not floating.

Hope this helps :)

Thanks for the response patrob.

What do you mean by "boards on 45 as the sub-floor"?

[slaman]

3/4" solid hardwood can only be nailed down to a sub-floor. Engineered is a more stable product & can be installed floated, glue down or nail down. I believe this is a condo & if it's a concrete sub-floor, you need engineered. Can't tell for sure if it's Jatoba, looks like some sort of exotic species but it's not domestic for sure.
7 1/2" is an odd size & now manufacturers stay around 5". But I am sure you can still find it somewhere, sorry can't help you on that one.

Hmm, I've really been struggling with trying to find out what wood this is... I ripped off a small piece of the top layer, and the underneath is very washed out... could it be that the reason I can't find this colour is because it was just stained?

Any potentials that I could match? I went to Home Depot and didn't find anything close... Jatoba was far too light... maybe American Red Oak, but even then, it wasn't close.

[r2traps]

I am surprised about your laminate, laminate usually is very easy to clean & hard to damage. If you are refinishing your floors, even 100 yrs. old, it should not deteriorate after 3 years, unless you have very heavy traffic.

An extra coat of varnish would help a lot. You said your parquet is approx. 25 yr. old, and if it was finished once, you can easily do it one more time. Unfinished parquet is 3/8", after finishing it's little bit thinner & you are saying it's in the basement, so it's glue to the concrete most likely. If it's not popping up, I would re-finish it. Keep it approx. same colour or slightly darker, so you don't have to sand deep down below the stain.

In regards to my laminate, I probably should have been more clear. I should have said that it's easy to get dirty when compared to hardwood. For example, if you walk on hardwood barefoot or with socks on, you typically wouldn't see any footprints, and with my laminate it's a guarantee that you will see footprint marks. We find ourselves cleaning our laminate flooring much more often than our hardwood.

Anyhow as for the laminate, right now it's a dark brown color, and I'd like to get it to a natural colour, which would better match our stairs/banister. I guess this would be difficult to achieve without having to sand deep below the stain?

[patrob]

Thanks for the response patrob.

What do you mean by "boards on 45 as the sub-floor"?

Older houses instead of plywood (which was not available at that time) used 1" x 6" boards on 45 deg. angle or across the joist as the sub-floor.
Here you can see Techhead's sub-floor which is 45 deg. boards http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2448198601_3deb023d32_b.jpg, http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/2806525285_027cbdec76_b.jpg

[patrob]

Hardwood in a kitchen?

We are in the process of purchasing a home and have decided on hardwood everywhere except front foyer, laundry room and all bathrooms. These areas will be ceramic tile. We had been planning on putting tile in the kitchen but after seeing a home same as ours where they used hardwood we are leaning towards this approach. While we believe tile to be much more practical the kitchen and great room flow together and the seamless look of all hardwood is much nicer.

We are seniors and probably don't have to worry as much about spills and messes as we would with kids, pets etc.

Do many of you have hardwood in the kitchen and how many regret not using tile or linoleum?

It is very trendy to have hardwood right throughout, incl. kitchen. If you are not worried about potential damage & faster wear & tear, go ahead.
But regardless, I recommend using floor mats at sink & stove area.

[patrob]

Hmm, I've really been struggling with trying to find out what wood this is... I ripped off a small piece of the top layer, and the underneath is very washed out... could it be that the reason I can't find this colour is because it was just stained?

Any potentials that I could match? I went to Home Depot and didn't find anything close... Jatoba was far too light... maybe American Red Oak, but even then, it wasn't close.

From what I see on the pic, this is def. not domestic species (Red Oak). It's closer to Jatoba but check out Merbau. It has a more red undertone & tight grain. But the chances of finding that same wood, size & colour, might be hard or impossible.

[patrob]

In regards to my laminate, I probably should have been more clear. I should have said that it's easy to get dirty when compared to hardwood. For example, if you walk on hardwood barefoot or with socks on, you typically wouldn't see any footprints, and with my laminate it's a guarantee that you will see footprint marks. We find ourselves cleaning our laminate flooring much more often than our hardwood.

Anyhow as for the laminate, right now it's a dark brown color, and I'd like to get it to a natural colour, which would better match our stairs/banister. I guess this would be difficult to achieve without having to sand deep below the stain?

Your laminate is probably higher gloss, that's why it shows footprints or maybe you are using the wrong product to clean it with.

But reg. the parquet, when re-staining from dark to light colour, you have to sand it right to raw wood. So that could of been the reason the re-finisher suggested installing a new floor. If the parquet is too thin, you will see the pieces flying when sanding. So my suggestion is, if you don't want to install new floors, just do screen & coat & leave the dark stain.

[Hugh Jass]

Techhead, looks like you did a fantastic job installing your wood floors. But why did you put in a plywood subfloor in the bedroom before installing the hardwood floor? I thought you only needed to do that when installing over concrete like in the basement? Isn't that called a floating floor?

I'm thinking about doing some DIY hardwood floor installation myself so your answer would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Just to add.

I did my daughters bedroom 2 weeks ago and had to lay a 3/8 plywood subfloor over the particle board ( or whatever it's called) so it would hold the nails that we used on the hardwood.

My cousin, a carpenter, was around to help, and he recommended glueing the plywood aswell as screwing into the joists.

It's perfect, not one tiny squeek from the floor and I know it's good for a long time.

[Hugh Jass]

Hardwood in a kitchen?

Do many of you have hardwood in the kitchen and how many regret not using tile or linoleum?

Go for it !

I mentioned this before in this thread:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7095404&postcount=683

[GTT1]

I believe we will. My biggest concern is cooking grease. Our current kitchen seems to get oil vapour that settles on the floor and even into the dining room. I find marks from my rubber soled slippers from the greasy film. Its a ***** to clean. Have used the specialty products, windex and varsol followed by a wood floor cleaner.

New house is going to have a Vent a hood fan which are supposed to pull out all the fumes. Present vent is useless and has the original 4" pipe.

Do you find water stains from drops and spatters you didn't see happen or forgot to clean up?

[Barayolayosa]

I agree with having tiles at the entrance point. I am surprised though that the builder ran the joists front to back, you must have at least 2 joint points (beams). Check for true straight at those points. Otherwise you have the right idea about starting from the tiles up. Make sure it's square.

Good luck

Patrob, how should I affix the first board which will be next to the tiles? Should I PL400 and shoot a brad through the tounge on a 45 (blind nail), or is face nailing required?

Also how about prefinished stair nosing? Must I face nail as well?

[patrob]

Patrob, how should I affix the first board which will be next to the tiles? Should I PL400 and shoot a brad through the tounge on a 45 (blind nail), or is face nailing required?

Also how about prefinished stair nosing? Must I face nail as well?

If you use glue (PL) & nail it tight to the tiles, no face nails are required. No matter what you do, you will always see the face nails, so try to avoid it, especially on thresholds.

Before you nail it, remember where the pickets are & mark for the pickets & nail about 1/4" off the diameter of the picket or the dowel, so the picket or the cover will cover the nail hole ;) It's one of those trade secrets :D But there will be places that you will have to face nail unfortunately.

[Barayolayosa]

Before you nail it, remember where the pickets are & mark for the pickets & nail about 1/4" off the diameter of the picket or the dowel, so the picket or the cover will cover the nail hole ;) It's one of those trade secrets :D But there will be places that you will have to face nail unfortunately.

Actually I'm not doing the entire stairs... it's just the top of the stairs going into my basement - should I face nail this, or will the glue suffice?

[patrob]

Actually I'm not doing the entire stairs... it's just the top of the stairs going into my basement - should I face nail this, or will the glue suffice?

If you are finishing with a nosing & you are able to join with tongue & grove to the board, just use PL & couple finishing face nails. Same thing if you are starting with a nosing but additionally nail it at the edge that goes towards the wood. Don't step on it for 24 hours.

[markreda]

Great topic and a lot of very good info here.

I own an older house, built in the 50's.
The current subfloor is made from 6" x 3/4" planks on a diagonal.

I'm planning on having 3" x 3/4" strip hardwood installed, we'll be installing the hardwood parallel to the joists (it will look much better that way).

I'm planning on screwing the floor boards down then applying 5/8" OSB (tongue and groove).

Would you recommend this method?

[patrob]

Great topic and a lot of very good info here.

I own an older house, built in the 50's.
The current subfloor is made from 6" x 3/4" planks on a diagonal.

I'm planning on having 3" x 3/4" strip hardwood installed, we'll be installing the hardwood parallel to the joists (it will look much better that way).

I'm planning on screwing the floor boards down then applying 5/8" OSB (tongue and groove).

Would you recommend this method?

Screw 2 screws per board on joist about an inch from the edge & if you want to run with the joists, it's a good idea to install additional sub-floor.
3/4" boards + 5/8" OSB + 3/4" hardwood = super strong walking structure :D

[rascal]

Hi patrob,

Very helpful thread, thank you! Just wanted to get your opinion on something.

We moved into a house recently that has Mirage hardwood floors (red oak bordeaux 3 1/4") in the den, living room, dining room on the 1st floor and throughout the 2nd floor. The oak looks fine although we prefer maple. We need to get hardwood for the family room (there was tile there before which we have removed).

1) How would it look to use a different hardwood for this room. It is separated from the other rooms by tiled area. We prefer maple as we like wood with less grain visible. We were thinking about the Mirage maple in the bordeaux colour. Do you see this done and does it look ok?

2) Anywhere you could recommend near the Mississauga area to get Mirage hardwood and how much per sq ft. (either oak or maple).

3) And I think I already know the answer to this after searching the thread but can you ever get away with placing the hardwood parallel to the joists instead of across the joists for aesthetic reasons only? I'd prefer the hardwood run the same direction as the long direction of the room but the joists run that way. There are 2 layers of subfloor if that makes any difference (one plywood, one OSB I believe and I'm not sure of the thicknesses at this point).

Thanks.

[terrybear]

definatly a great thread here !!

Now for my question :P

The upstairs in my moms house has a hardwood floor in the true sence of its wood & not laminated crap my guess its about 1/2" to 3/4" thick. We've been here about 15 yrs now & the house if about 60 yrs old in general.

Now the problem is this since we've been here the above mentioned floor in the livingroom which is like in a "L" like shape with less at the bottom of the L in around a 12-15' wide x 30-40' long area hasn't been kept up very good, finish has gone off of it in places, pieces near the edge of the fireplace are above others & cracked & ect.

I can take photo's to show what I mean.

Anyways, how much is getting such a floor refinished & repaired gonna cost by a professional & otherwise. Also what would have to be done to repair it ??

thanks.

Terry

[Cronzor]

You will have to most likely re-finish that room. You cannot apply a coat of finish on a damaged floor. Each job is diff, so the price will vary.
But min. they charge is $2 & up.

What do you think of these new chemical products that claim to remove the old finish and put a new one without sanding? Would that work in this case, or should they be avoided in general?

[patrob]

Hi patrob,

Very helpful thread, thank you! Just wanted to get your opinion on something.

We moved into a house recently that has Mirage hardwood floors (red oak bordeaux 3 1/4") in the den, living room, dining room on the 1st floor and throughout the 2nd floor. The oak looks fine although we prefer maple. We need to get hardwood for the family room (there was tile there before which we have removed).

1) How would it look to use a different hardwood for this room. It is separated from the other rooms by tiled area. We prefer maple as we like wood with less grain visible. We were thinking about the Mirage maple in the bordeaux colour. Do you see this done and does it look ok?

2) Anywhere you could recommend near the Mississauga area to get Mirage hardwood and how much per sq ft. (either oak or maple).

3) And I think I already know the answer to this after searching the thread but can you ever get away with placing the hardwood parallel to the joists instead of across the joists for aesthetic reasons only? I'd prefer the hardwood run the same direction as the long direction of the room but the joists run that way. There are 2 layers of subfloor if that makes any difference (one plywood, one OSB I believe and I'm not sure of the thicknesses at this point).

Thanks.

It's up to you if you want diff. hardwood in the family room. I have seen it done many times but Bordeaux on maple looks lighter than oak. With a double plywood I would not be afraid to go with the joist (parallel). Maybe a diagonal installation would be an option. Prices will vary, go on Mirage website for the dealer list & call around.

[patrob]

definatly a great thread here !!

Now for my question :P

The upstairs in my moms house has a hardwood floor in the true sence of its wood & not laminated crap my guess its about 1/2" to 3/4" thick. We've been here about 15 yrs now & the house if about 60 yrs old in general.

Now the problem is this since we've been here the above mentioned floor in the livingroom which is like in a "L" like shape with less at the bottom of the L in around a 12-15' wide x 30-40' long area hasn't been kept up very good, finish has gone off of it in places, pieces near the edge of the fireplace are above others & cracked & ect.

I can take photo's to show what I mean.

Anyways, how much is getting such a floor refinished & repaired gonna cost by a professional & otherwise. Also what would have to be done to repair it ??

thanks.

Terry

The cracked pieces will have to be replaced with same species of wood. Around the fireplace, perhaps you can add a "picture frame" (like a border).
And the refinishing will have to be checked out by a flooring contractor.

[patrob]

What do you think of these new chemical products that claim to remove the old finish and put a new one without sanding? Would that work in this case, or should they be avoided in general?

What happens when you paint your car without scuffing the finish? Your new paint will peel off. That's what I am always afraid off when I hear about products like that & I never recommend them. There could also be a chemical reaction between the two finishes. If you're going to do a job, do it right the first time :)

[paul 22]

I am going to be getting some vintage estate white oak installed and I am wondering what would be considered a good price for the installation of this hard wood including quarter round. I can remember reading this type of info earlier in the thread but cannot seem to find it despite several searches. Prior to reading this forum I had no idea what brand to go with but know I know vintage seems to be the way to go.

Thanks

[markreda]

I've got a 2nd question for you...

Now I'll be removing the 6"x3/4" wood plank subfloor.

I'd still like to install the 3" strips parallel (in the same direction as) to the joists.

Would 3/4" OSB (tongue and groove) be a strong enough subfloor (my joists are 12" on centre)?
Is 1/2" Spruce Plywood strong enough?

What is recommended?

[CatDog]

for laminate you have to remove the base boards right so that it can go up against it properly?

First time doing this, all a bit over my head :(

Wish I could find some great videos that would explain it all..checked youtube and just found a bunch of scraps

[Hugh Jass]

for laminate you have to remove the base boards right so that it can go up against it properly?





Nope, don't HAVE to. You can use quarter-round to hide the gap btwn floor and baseboard.

[CatDog]

okay,

then if I was to remove the baseboard .. I would be able to get it to line up evenly?

Also the underlay has thin plastic attached to it on the side, do I slide that under the drywall or do I roll that under the thicker stuff s that the thick plastic is under the drywall?

I'll take a picture if that didn't make any sense, just frustrated. :( thanks, appreciate it

[Swaps]

Hello. What a tremendous thread!

I just bought a condo in Ottawa and am completely underwhelmed with the price and quality of the hardwood flooring options offered by our builder's flooring supplier.

Does anybody know of anywhere in the Capital Region where I could find a good deal on hardwood and/or a competent contractor?

Many thanks.:)

[patrob]

I've got a 2nd question for you...

Now I'll be removing the 6"x3/4" wood plank subfloor.

I'd still like to install the 3" strips parallel (in the same direction as) to the joists.

Would 3/4" OSB (tongue and groove) be a strong enough subfloor (my joists are 12" on centre)?
Is 1/2" Spruce Plywood strong enough?

What is recommended?

Who gave you that idea :confused: What is the reason you want to remove the plank sub-floor ???

The planks are on 45, which gives a lot of strength & support. Plywood or OSB will not give you the same strength. If you want to run parallel with the joist with 12 o.c., regardless, the manufacturer will not honour the warranty in case of a problem. The plank sub-floor & 3/4" OSB would be really perfect.

[patrob]

I am going to be getting some vintage estate white oak installed and I am wondering what would be considered a good price for the installation of this hard wood including quarter round. I can remember reading this type of info earlier in the thread but cannot seem to find it despite several searches. Prior to reading this forum I had no idea what brand to go with but know I know vintage seems to be the way to go.

Thanks

You have to call around in your area. I don't think anyone from GTA will go & install there. Quarter round is around $2 ln. ft. primed & installed.

[patrob]

for laminate you have to remove the base boards right so that it can go up against it properly?

First time doing this, all a bit over my head :(

Wish I could find some great videos that would explain it all..checked youtube and just found a bunch of scraps

Nope, don't HAVE to. You can use quarter-round to hide the gap btwn floor and baseboard.

Correct :)

[patrob]

okay,

then if I was to remove the baseboard .. I would be able to get it to line up evenly?

Also the underlay has thin plastic attached to it on the side, do I slide that under the drywall or do I roll that under the thicker stuff s that the thick plastic is under the drywall?

I'll take a picture if that didn't make any sense, just frustrated. :( thanks, appreciate it

No plastic goes behind the drywall. Some people wrap it up behind the baseboard around 2" up but IMO no need.

What kind of laminate & underlay are you using? If it's 3-in-1, shiny side up ;)

[patrob]

Hello. What a tremendous thread!

I just bought a condo in Ottawa and am completely underwhelmed with the price and quality of the hardwood flooring options offered by our builder's flooring supplier.

Does anybody know of anywhere in the Capital Region where I could find a good deal on hardwood and/or a competent contractor?

Many thanks.:)

Thanks :D

I suggest this site might help a lot www.buildinghomes.ca/community/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

[CatDog]

No plastic goes behind the drywall. Some people wrap it up behind the baseboard around 2" up but IMO no need.

What kind of laminate & underlay are you using? If it's 3-in-1, shiny side up

Oh, no plastic goes under the drywall? I'll take a picture tomorrow afternoon after I come from Home Depot as I need to get the baseboard tool to remove them.

Does anyone have any good videos they could send me a link to? I have a rough idea of how the process goes but I don't want to turn this into a completely learn as I go process, making a mess of my home.

EDIT: I didn't even answer your Q. I picked up some Euro Home 12mm at Home Depot .. as far as the brand of underlay I'd have to check but it was $20 at Home Depot and is clear plastic. The only other underlay I saw was the red $50 one that was a 3 in 1.

[paul 22]

I am going to be getting some vintage estate white oak installed and I am wondering what would be considered a good price for the installation of this hard wood including quarter round. I can remember reading this type of info earlier in the thread but cannot seem to find it despite several searches. Prior to reading this forum I had no idea what brand to go with but know I know vintage seems to be the way to go.

Thanks

You have to call around in your area. I don't think anyone from GTA will go & install there. Quarter round is around $2 ln. ft. primed & installed.

I appreciate your response. If I lived in the Toronto area what do you think I could expect to pay? In London I am getting a quote of $9.70 a square foot installed without quarter round which is an additional $2.00. If the price is much better in Toronto I could at least buy the wood in Toronto and perhaps save some money. That may sound extreme but I am doing an entire floor and an upper hallway in London and also a couple of floors (in a split level) at another place up north. I appreciate your help.

Thanks

[patrob]

Oh, no plastic goes under the drywall? I'll take a picture tomorrow afternoon after I come from Home Depot as I need to get the baseboard tool to remove them.

Does anyone have any good videos they could send me a link to? I have a rough idea of how the process goes but I don't want to turn this into a completely learn as I go process, making a mess of my home.

EDIT: I didn't even answer your Q. I picked up some Euro Home 12mm at Home Depot .. as far as the brand of underlay I'd have to check but it was $20 at Home Depot and is clear plastic. The only other underlay I saw was the red $50 one that was a 3 in 1.

The only plastic behind the drywall is on the outside walls in residential housing.
How would you be able to shove the plastic behind the drywall without ripping it off? You can only wrap it up the wall behind the baseboard but you have to remove it first. If you are using that cheap underlay from HD for $20 a roll, it's completely porous & no need to wrap it up, especially on wooden sub-floor. The 3-in-1 underlay is much better & gives a better feel.

[patrob]

I appreciate your response. If I lived in the Toronto area what do you think I could expect to pay? In London I am getting a quote of $9.70 a square foot installed without quarter round which is an additional $2.00. If the price is much better in Toronto I could at least buy the wood in Toronto and perhaps save some money. That may sound extreme but I am doing an entire floor and an upper hallway in London and also a couple of floors (in a split level) at another place up north. I appreciate your help.

Thanks

For around $10 sq. ft. here in GTA will give you one of the best if not the best products installed. Depending on the price of the wood, it will most likely not include quarter round. You can buy the quarter round primed, small coping or miter saw, finishing nails (hand or pneumatic) & it's easily doable. But it's time taking.
I would rather invest in better wood & save the money on the quarter round.

BTW, what product did they quote you for $9.70?

[utopianbl]

1. "Competitive" rate for hardwood is questionable, depends what you want, the quality of the product, etc. Condos are usually more expensive, it takes diff. wood (if you want hardwood), special underlay, glues & the rate of $1 - $2 is not from a contractor that specializes in floors only. Maybe for laminate installation but not for hardwood in a condo.

2. I can but not for that price.

3. It all depends what needs to be done & don't forget limited work hours in a condo:
- remove carpets
- install underlays
- install floor
- finish trim
- clean up

So a job like that should take 2-3 days (2 guys). Glue down installation requires 24 hours before traffic but you can walk on it gently soon right after installation.

4. I can only speak for myself, I can't say what others offer but if there is a problem on my job that is my fault, I will fix it with no questions. So far it never happened :)

Hey Patrob, if I were to repeat my questions with hope of installing laminate instead of hardwood what would your suggestions be?

thanks so much

[patrob]

Hey Patrob, if I were to repeat my questions with hope of installing laminate instead of hardwood what would your suggestions be?

thanks so much

So I assume you're asking for a quote :D PM me with more details.

[paul 22]

For around $10 sq. ft. here in GTA will give you one of the best if not the best products installed. Depending on the price of the wood, it will most likely not include quarter round. You can buy the quarter round primed, small coping or miter saw, finishing nails (hand or pneumatic) & it's easily doable. But it's time taking.
I would rather invest in better wood & save the money on the quarter round.

BTW, what product did they quote you for $9.70?

The quote was for vintage estate white oak and the style was cathedral.

[aple]

I'm wondering if anyone can assist me with a laminate question....the length of my living/dining room is 32'....I've heard that if laminate is laid over too long of a length, it might "buckle" up in the middle.

Any thoughts?

[crimsondr]

Hi all,

I'm going to replace the carpet in my home with hardwood. I'm looking at a very dark maple. The problem is that my stairs are a very light oak. Is it possible to change the colour of the stairs to match my new hardwood?

Thanks.

[patrob]

The quote was for vintage estate white oak and the style was cathedral.

Kind of high for that wood/colour.

I'm wondering if anyone can assist me with a laminate question....the length of my living/dining room is 32'....I've heard that if laminate is laid over too long of a length, it might "buckle" up in the middle.

Any thoughts?

On the no name products 30 ft. is safe. If you go with Torlys, you can even do 50 ft. with no problems, as per Torlys. We have installed 100 ft.
Torlys with no break & has been beautiful for the past 6 years :)

[patrob]

Hi all,

I'm going to replace the carpet in my home with hardwood. I'm looking at a very dark maple. The problem is that my stairs are a very light oak. Is it possible to change the colour of the stairs to match my new hardwood?

Thanks.

Yes. Either you strip the varnish yourself & finish it or hire someone but it's not cheap & very messy. Obviously the grain on the stairs will be diff. than your smooth maple floors but if you use the matching stain, it will look fine.

[crimsondr]

Yes. Either you strip the varnish yourself & finish it or hire someone but it's not cheap & very messy. Obviously the grain on the stairs will be diff. than your smooth maple floors but if you use the matching stain, it will look fine.
Do you have a ballpark figure or range for "not cheap"?

[paul 22]

[QUOTE=patrob;7472028]Kind of high for that wood/colour.




What would be a more appropriate price?

[UrbanPoet]

Anyone have those fake hardwood floors? How do they look in real life? They seem good in pictures but then again everything looks good in pics...
You know those "hard wood floors" that come in big squares, kinda like a big tile. They have the shape/design/grain that simulate hardwood floors.

[patrob]

Do you have a ballpark figure or range for "not cheap"?

Easily $2K plus...depending on stairs, pickets, nosings, handrail, etc.

[patrob]

What would be a more appropriate price?

Closer to $9 or less.

[patrob]

Anyone have those fake hardwood floors? How do they look in real life? They seem good in pictures but then again everything looks good in pics...
You know those "hard wood floors" that come in big squares, kinda like a big tile. They have the shape/design/grain that simulate hardwood floors.

Do you mean mosaic parquet?

[zoolander]

Without reading through 61 pages, what's a reasonable price for hardwood installation?
(I have some angles around the fireplace and there is one large angle where it meets tile)

[Shad0w]

Hey guys,

Question for you all.

Im working around some 3/4" stair nosing... of course the nosing has a groove... the hardwood that Ill be installing against it also needs to go groove side against the stair nosing so I can nail the tounge. Im going to spline the two pieces together of course with glue in the grooves... would you bother with top nailing the hardwood at that point or no? Doesnt seem to be much sense to splining if you're going to top nail no?

Thnx for the advice!

[Jenny1975]

I wouldn't bother with top nailing. You'll nail the tongue as you continue out past the nosing. That should be sufficient to me, although I'm no pro!

[patrob]

Without reading through 61 pages, what's a reasonable price for hardwood installation?
(I have some angles around the fireplace and there is one large angle where it meets tile)

If it's a straight installation, not on diagonal, no fancy borders, then a professional will charge you $2 sq. ft. on average.

[patrob]

Hey guys,

Question for you all.

Im working around some 3/4" stair nosing... of course the nosing has a groove... the hardwood that Ill be installing against it also needs to go groove side against the stair nosing so I can nail the tounge. Im going to spline the two pieces together of course with glue in the grooves... would you bother with top nailing the hardwood at that point or no? Doesnt seem to be much sense to splining if you're going to top nail no?

Thnx for the advice!

NO top nails! Nail through tongue, little glue on the bottom & that's more than enough.

[Shad0w]

NO top nails! Nail through tongue, little glue on the bottom & that's more than enough.

Awesome... thats what I was hoping the consensus would say :)
Ill nail through the spline / tounge and a bit of glue on the bottom... done :)

Thnx again guys!

[isw2000]

Recently purchased a house, waiting to move in end of Oct, house built in 2002, half of main floor (about 1100 sqft) is carpet and half maple hardwood put in diagonally.

The first home reno project we are thinking is to replace all carpet with maple hardwood. Is it wise to do that? and is it possible to match the existing hwf? Any rough estimates on material and labour?:?:

Thanks in advance

[patrob]

Recently purchased a house, waiting to move in end of Oct, house built in 2002, half of main floor (about 1100 sqft) is carpet and half maple hardwood put in diagonally.

The first home reno project we are thinking is to replace all carpet with maple hardwood. Is it wise to do that? and is it possible to match the existing hwf? Any rough estimates on material and labour?:?:

Thanks in advance

Have your hardwood flooring contractor come in & give you an exact idea of what kind of wood you have & what manufacturer it is. You should have no problems with matching it. But can't help you on the material/labour costs, as pricing in Calgary will probably be a bit diff. than here in Toronto. Plus your diagonal installation will also cost you more vs. standard installation.

[valdez12]

I wanted to give a head's up to anyone thinking of putting this into their house/condo.

We had Goodfellow Masters Choice Engineered Cabreuva (Santos Mahogany) 5" wide planks (it has a 2MM real wood veneer over a 7 layer plywood core) installed 6 months ago in our second (main level) of our house.

My conclusion:
Pros:
- Wood colouring is great,
- Finish of the edges is great, local installer from Island Flooring Centre in Victoria did an excellent job.
- Cost: it was cheaper than full board hardwood, but I was worried about the possible humidity problems with a solid exotic hardwood. I figured engineered would be a safer bet as part of the kitchen is over a un-heated garage. Also the cost, it was almost 50% more for solid hardwood from other brands like Bruce, and higher end brands (mirage) were double the price.

Cons:
- Finish quality: As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, the varnish/finish is no good!! It actually sucks as our kid's plastic toys will scratch it or dent it. The wood is a very hard exotic wood, harder than oak, so we thought it would be fine with kids and small dog.
After 6 months, we have scratches everywhere our kids and dog play a lot. We have felt coasters under ALL the furniture and chairs.
Dropping hard plastic items (or metal of course) on it will dent the finish quite visibly. I've lived in other houses with hardwood floors, maple and oak and the oak was much harder to scratch, but these were finished on site floors.

In summary, I cannot recommend Goodfellow Master's choice Engineered flooring for a house with pets and kids. It is made in China (only realized this once I received the boxes) and although it looks great, it does not hold up. I hate to think what it will look like in 5 years! (we'll likely be looking at getting it refinished then I guess!)

[aple]

Taking out carpet and laying hardwood or lamminate...I'm purchasing new baseboard, will I need to add quarter round? Or will normal baseboard be enough?

[Jenny1975]

Hi,

I am planning on installing 5/8" engineered hardwood (http://www.trilliumhardwood.com/uniclic.html) on my 2nd floor, which is currently carpeted. The 2nd floor hallway is open to below with a railing. My staircase is HW and at the top is nosing that extends from the top step all the way across the hallway, under the railing posts and balusters. For a visual, the floor plan (Minto Manhattan) can be seen at: http://www.mintohomes.com/Ottawa/ourCommunities/community/collection/design/index.asp?HS_ID=33&CO_ID=1

My problem is how do I successfully deal with butting up the engineered product at 5/8" with the HW nosing at 3/4"? I was thinking about putting a foot or two of 1/8" ply underneath my first few rows of engineered, then maybe doing a bit of selective shimming past the ply to bring the engineered down to the subfloor. Not sure what would works best. 3/4" engineered available, but is considerably pricier than the 5/8", so it's not really an option. Also, I do not want to remove and replace the exising nosing as this would entail removing and reinstalling the railings - major hassle.

Any other ideas would be most welcome.

[UrbanPoet]

Do you mean mosaic parquet?

sort of. But it has pattern that simulates long panels of hard wood flooring.

[Jenny1975]

Taking out carpet and laying hardwood or lamminate...I'm purchasing new baseboard, will I need to add quarter round? Or will normal baseboard be enough?

Depends no how big of a gap you leave and how thick your baseboards are. 1/2" is typical for expansion room, are your baseboards at least that thick? It's possible to buy super thick baseboards that cover up a multitude of sins, but they can look a bit odd depending on what other mouldings you have. Another option is to undercut your drywall to provide the extra expansion room. That way you can lay your floor tighter to the visible portion of the walls and get away with baseboards only.

[patrob]

I wanted to give a head's up to anyone thinking of putting this into their house/condo.

We had Goodfellow Masters Choice Engineered Cabreuva (Santos Mahogany) 5" wide planks (it has a 2MM real wood veneer over a 7 layer plywood core) installed 6 months ago in our second (main level) of our house.

My conclusion:
Pros:
- Wood colouring is great,
- Finish of the edges is great, local installer from Island Flooring Centre in Victoria did an excellent job.
- Cost: it was cheaper than full board hardwood, but I was worried about the possible humidity problems with a solid exotic hardwood. I figured engineered would be a safer bet as part of the kitchen is over a un-heated garage. Also the cost, it was almost 50% more for solid hardwood from other brands like Bruce, and higher end brands (mirage) were double the price.

Cons:
- Finish quality: As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, the varnish/finish is no good!! It actually sucks as our kid's plastic toys will scratch it or dent it. The wood is a very hard exotic wood, harder than oak, so we thought it would be fine with kids and small dog.
After 6 months, we have scratches everywhere our kids and dog play a lot. We have felt coasters under ALL the furniture and chairs.
Dropping hard plastic items (or metal of course) on it will dent the finish quite visibly. I've lived in other houses with hardwood floors, maple and oak and the oak was much harder to scratch, but these were finished on site floors.

In summary, I cannot recommend Goodfellow Master's choice Engineered flooring for a house with pets and kids. It is made in China (only realized this once I received the boxes) and although it looks great, it does not hold up. I hate to think what it will look like in 5 years! (we'll likely be looking at getting it refinished then I guess!)

I am sorry you had to find out the hard way :(

As I mentioned before, the most important thing in hardwood is the quality of finish. The hardness of the wood will not play any role if poor quality finish is used.
And I see that very often with products made in China & Goodfellow, not only engineered comes from there.

[patrob]

Taking out carpet and laying hardwood or lamminate...I'm purchasing new baseboard, will I need to add quarter round? Or will normal baseboard be enough?

That depends how thick the baseboard is, how straight your floors are (level) & how good you are with installation of the baseboards :D

If you have patience to shape the baseboard to the shape of the floor (if needed), then you might not need quarter round. If your baseboards are 5" or higher, then a simple door stop gives you that extra detail & makes it look even nicer. And it's bendable & easier to install.

[patrob]

Hi,

I am planning on installing 5/8" engineered hardwood (http://www.trilliumhardwood.com/uniclic.html) on my 2nd floor, which is currently carpeted. The 2nd floor hallway is open to below with a railing. My staircase is HW and at the top is nosing that extends from the top step all the way across the hallway, under the railing posts and balusters. For a visual, the floor plan (Minto Manhattan) can be seen at: http://www.mintohomes.com/Ottawa/ourCommunities/community/collection/design/index.asp?HS_ID=33&CO_ID=1

My problem is how do I successfully deal with butting up the engineered product at 5/8" with the HW nosing at 3/4"? I was thinking about putting a foot or two of 1/8" ply underneath my first few rows of engineered, then maybe doing a bit of selective shimming past the ply to bring the engineered down to the subfloor. Not sure what would works best. 3/4" engineered available, but is considerably pricier than the 5/8", so it's not really an option. Also, I do not want to remove and replace the exising nosing as this would entail removing and reinstalling the railings - major hassle.

Any other ideas would be most welcome.

Don't go that far as foot or two. All you need is an inch or two because you are changing the height from 3/4" to 5/8", that's only 1/8" diff. So your first board will be slightly raised up. Use the tips of the wide cedar shims with glue. Or you can cut some pine or something about an inch & rip it at an angle from 1/8" to 0 if you need longer pieces. Without lowering the nosing, it will def. be slightly visible.

BTW, it's click, so it will be floating, so you will make your first piece fixed to the sub-floor, otherwise you should use a T-mold to join diff. floors & heights.

[patrob]

sort of. But it has pattern that simulates long panels of hard wood flooring.

You mean laminate? With the image of 2 or 3 rows of planks in 1 board.

[Jenny1975]

Don't go that far as foot or two. All you need is an inch or two because you are changing the height from 3/4" to 5/8", that's only 1/8" diff. So your first board will be slightly raised up. Use the tips of the wide cedar shims with glue. Or you can cut some pine or something about an inch & rip it at an angle from 1/8" to 0 if you need longer pieces. Without lowering the nosing, it will def. be slightly visible.

BTW, it's click, so it will be floating, so you will make your first piece fixed to the sub-floor, otherwise you should use a T-mold to join diff. floors & heights.

Terrific, thanks. Shimming from the nosing was my first thought, but I was concerned it might be insufficient. Feel better about it now. :)

[project240]

A little off topic, but I have a question about installation of engineered flooring. I have done quite a bit of flooring in the past, but always smaller jobs. How many square feet should a person be able to lay in a day by themselves?

I have a friend building a new construction 8 plex and he wants engineered flooring installed in all common areas for a total of approx 3000 sq ft. I'm trying to figure out how long this would take a person working solo.

Also, what should we be looking at for installation costs /sq ft? I know it depends by area (I'm in Calgary), I'm just looking for ballpark. The main floor is being glued on concrete, the upper floor will be a floating floor on 3/4" ply.

Thank in advance for any advice.

[nocsec]

thanks for your thread -- though it is getting a bit bloated! (might be nice to make a pinned list of FAQs)...

we live in an old semi (built ~1910) in riverdale, toronto. Floors are the typical oak hardwood that every old house in town seems to have...

my wife wants to refinish them, with a slightly darker stain. it looks like they have probably been sanded a couple of times already, as there are gap appearing between boards, and i'm not sure they could take another sanding.

In addition, there are some soft spots, presumably related to the old subfloor.
i'm thinking that the best option might be rip out the floors, lay a new plywood subfloor on top of the old subfloor, and put in new hardwood.
The area is fairly small (~500 sq ft (30x15)), open concept on one floor.

Is this a reasonable strategy? any suggestions? what ballpark would you expect for labour for such a job?

Thanks in advance...

d

[patrob]

A little off topic, but I have a question about installation of engineered flooring. I have done quite a bit of flooring in the past, but always smaller jobs. How many square feet should a person be able to lay in a day by themselves?

I have a friend building a new construction 8 plex and he wants engineered flooring installed in all common areas for a total of approx 3000 sq ft. I'm trying to figure out how long this would take a person working solo.

Also, what should we be looking at for installation costs /sq ft? I know it depends by area (I'm in Calgary), I'm just looking for ballpark. The main floor is being glued on concrete, the upper floor will be a floating floor on 3/4" ply.

Thank in advance for any advice.

Estimated installation time & amount depends on the layout, wood species/quality, width, etc. It also depends on the installers experience. Some jobs you won't be able to do more than 100 sq. ft. per day, then there are others that you will install 600 sq. ft. with ease. But straight nail down is approx. 300-400 sq. ft. a day. Floating is pretty much the same. Glue down about 300 sq. ft. (slow & messy:D)

From what I hear Calgary is more expensive for installation. 3,000 sq. ft. solo I would estimate 10-12 work days (more than 8 hrs. per day). Consider this as 8 smaller jobs of around 375 sq. ft. each unit.

[patrob]

thanks for your thread -- though it is getting a bit bloated! (might be nice to make a pinned list of FAQs)...

we live in an old semi (built ~1910) in riverdale, toronto. Floors are the typical oak hardwood that every old house in town seems to have...

my wife wants to refinish them, with a slightly darker stain. it looks like they have probably been sanded a couple of times already, as there are gap appearing between boards, and i'm not sure they could take another sanding.

In addition, there are some soft spots, presumably related to the old subfloor.
i'm thinking that the best option might be rip out the floors, lay a new plywood subfloor on top of the old subfloor, and put in new hardwood.
The area is fairly small (~500 sq ft (30x15)), open concept on one floor.

Is this a reasonable strategy? any suggestions? what ballpark would you expect for labour for such a job?

Thanks in advance...


It's hard to estimate a job like this without seeing it. You might have some surprises, broken sub-floor boards, cracked joists, some leveling to do, you never know. If the gaps are really visible & you re-finish the floors, the gaps will crack open eventually, so IMO it's best to talk to a hardwood flooring contractor first.
I would not spend money on re-finishing of 3/8" strip flooring (if it is) unless it's something special like wide planks.

[Odd I/O]

Hi Patrob

I trying to decide whether or not to go with some of the exotics (Brazilian Teak or Tigerwood). Do you know of any reputable manufacturer?
Lowes carries BR111 which I've heard good things about but it's pricey at $12/foot for the 3/4" version. Is there any place that carries it
and sells it for cheaper?

Also, have you ever heard of Sunca? There website is http://www.sunca.ca/

Are there any cons with going with one of the exotics rather than Oak or Maple?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob

I trying to decide whether or not to go with some of the exotics (Brazilian Teak or Tigerwood). Do you know of any reputable manufacturer?
Lowes carries BR111 which I've heard good things about but it's pricey at $12/foot for the 3/4" version. Is there any place that carries it
and sells it for cheaper?

Also, have you ever heard of Sunca? There website is http://www.sunca.ca/

Are there any cons with going with one of the exotics rather than Oak or Maple?

No idea who BR111 is :confused: But anyhow, one of the most reputable manufacturers is Vintage & they do have Tigerwood (known as Muiracatiara) in engineered (solid sawn) & solid which is waaaay less than $12 sq. ft. You can't get any better than that. If you need more info, PM me.

Looks like Sunca is a imported/distributer & never dealt with them.

People are infatuated with exotic woods. You have to be very careful with the stability of your RH in the house. It has to be perfect, not too dry, not too humid. Some of the exotics are really beautiful but I would still stick with domestic.

[warningu]

You can try Brampton Hardwood Floors LTD. They carry a large range of woods. They have some recognizable brands, however most of their stuff comes from a Manufaturer named, 'Continental Designs'. Has anyone ever heard of this company????? I have had no luck finding them on the web.

I like the look of their Santos Mohagany. Also does anyone know anything about Santos Mohagany and pros/cons to getting it for a lower level stacked townhouse 1 floor?


thanks

[patrob]

You can try Brampton Hardwood Floors LTD. They carry a large range of woods. They have some recognizable brands, however most of their stuff comes from a Manufaturer named, 'Continental Designs'. Has anyone ever heard of this company????? I have had no luck finding them on the web.



If you can't find a particular manufacturer on the web, that should tell you something :rolleyes:

BF sells lower grade products. You will not find higher end products like Vintage, Mirage, Model, Lauzon, etc... The best stuff from them is Bruce or St. Lawrence & even that is considered below average quality. Their products are not that cheap for what they sell. Also their after sales cust. service is close to non-existent. They only sell wood & don't have their own installers, they only recommend somebody.

Plus there are many unhappy customers that purchased their crappy wood, have a read... http://www.homestars.com/companies/198438-brampton-hardwood-floors-ltd

[warningu]

Thanks very much for your quick response Patrob. I am having a real problem finding a store and Installer that satisfies my comfort level.

I nearly bought from "Ideal Floors' (located at Warden/Ellesmere-across from Home Depot), but when they called Preverco Floors to place my order, the batch# in stock was different than the one in the store. So the wood did not have the same bevelled edges and overall it was a bit darker. So as I did not like anything else in the store, I now have to start over.

I am willing to pay for quality and BH was $5.49 sq ft (very low, as I was paying ideal $8 sq ft). However I agree the quality was not the same as Preverco. I am almost at a point where I may have to purchase the Santos Mohagany from Home Depot.

I bought a condo and it's been sitting vacant for 4 weeks now, as I try to find the right wood.

Do you have any advice about flooring and light. It's a lower level stacked townhouse. medium window in front and the 2 small bedrooms have sliding glass doors out to a back patio. I was worried that if the floor is too dark, it may make the entire space seem 'cave - ish'.
Help!!! please and thank you

[patrob]

Thanks very much for your quick response Patrob. I am having a real problem finding a store and Installer that satisfies my comfort level.

I nearly bought from "Ideal Floors' (located at Warden/Ellesmere-across from Home Depot), but when they called Preverco Floors to place my order, the batch# in stock was different than the one in the store. So the wood did not have the same bevelled edges and overall it was a bit darker. So as I did not like anything else in the store, I now have to start over.

I am willing to pay for quality and BH was $5.49 sq ft (very low, as I was paying ideal $8 sq ft). However I agree the quality was not the same as Preverco. I am almost at a point where I may have to purchase the Santos Mohagany from Home Depot.

I bought a condo and it's been sitting vacant for 4 weeks now, as I try to find the right wood.

Do you have any advice about flooring and light. It's a lower level stacked townhouse. medium window in front and the 2 small bedrooms have sliding glass doors out to a back patio. I was worried that if the floor is too dark, it may make the entire space seem 'cave - ish'.
Help!!! please and thank you

First question, what is your sub-floor, concrete or wood??

If you are saying the quality from BH wasn't close to Preverco, then let me tell you that Preverco is lower grade than Vintage or Mirage.

Would you consider something else, like Jatoba in Orinoco or Amazonia colour from Vintage?
http://www.vintageflooring.com/product_ss_ex_2.php
It's close in colour to the Santos Mahogany. Also for exotic hardwood, I would highly recommend going with engineered, especially solid sawn from Vintage. Very, very stable product.

[Swaps]

No idea who BR111 is :confused: But anyhow, one of the most reputable manufacturers is Vintage & they do have Tigerwood (known as Muiracatiara) in engineered (solid sawn) & solid which is waaaay less than $12 sq. ft. You can't get any better than that. If you need more info, PM me.

Looks like Sunca is a imported/distributer & never dealt with them.

People are infatuated with exotic woods. You have to be very careful with the stability of your RH in the house. It has to be perfect, not too dry, not too humid. Some of the exotics are really beautiful but I would still stick with domestic.

Hi Patrob,

Are the problems with exotics the same for engineered as well? To the same degree?

Thanks.

[GTT1]

We are planning on doing our new house in Grimsby completely in hardwood. I estimate we will need about 1800 sq ft.

Builders pricing is going to be way to high so we have requested a credit for carpet and are looking to find a good supplier/installer for Grimsby.

Any suggestions for a store. We wonder also what kind of discount we should be able to negotiate when doing an entire home.

We are thinking engineered. My wife likes dark ebony look in a distressed mat finish. Anybody got any specific brands we should consider. Other thoughts?

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

Are the problems with exotics the same for engineered as well? To the same degree?

Thanks.

Solid Sawn eng. which is 3 layers cross patterned is a very stable product with a thick veneer that can be easily re-finished (if necessary in the future).

Eng. does not expand & contract like solid hardwood & it's also versatile with installation, can be floated, nailed or glued down on every kind of sub-floor. With solid sawn eng. you can go into wider boards vs. max recommended 4" from solid. It's just better.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7996/vintagesolidsawnye9.jpg

[patrob]

We are planning on doing our new house in Grimsby completely in hardwood. I estimate we will need about 1800 sq ft.

Builders pricing is going to be way to high so we have requested a credit for carpet and are looking to find a good supplier/installer for Grimsby.

Any suggestions for a store. We wonder also what kind of discount we should be able to negotiate when doing an entire home.

We are thinking engineered. My wife likes dark ebony look in a distressed mat finish. Anybody got any specific brands we should consider. Other thoughts?

The price you pay is per sq. ft., so you can save a couple of cents here & there but hardwood is generally not cheap for good quality product. You will not get like 20% off because you are doing a whole house.

Depends how much you want to spend, but I highly recommend Vintage products. Especially if you are looking for the distressed/mat product, then the hand scraped soild sawn Baroque colour will be just perfect :D The hand scraped comes in 5" or 7" wide planks.
PM me with more details.

http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/baroque.jpg

[GTT1]

Looks like the type of product that would interest my wife.

Personally I am more practical and wonder whether the look is swaying her thoughts to much. I assume that being distressed it will not be smooth and I am concerned it would prove harder to keep clean than a smooth semi gloss surface. Are there tight cracks grooves where dirt grease can collect and make cleaning more difficult. We are planning on having this in the kitchen as well.

Any readers out there that have used the distressed mat products who can give there personal thoughts on how they like it.

[patrob]

Looks like the type of product that would interest my wife.

Personally I am more practical and wonder whether the look is swaying her thoughts to much. I assume that being distressed it will not be smooth and I am concerned it would prove harder to keep clean than a smooth semi gloss surface. Are there tight cracks grooves where dirt grease can collect and make cleaning more difficult. We are planning on having this in the kitchen as well.

Any readers out there that have used the distressed mat products who can give there personal thoughts on how they like it.

I had a feeling she would like it :D

There is no diff. in cleaning the hand scraped product, you would treat it the same as any other hardwood. Plus with any hardwood in the kitchen, you will have to be more careful, it's recommend to place floor mats around the sink & stove areas. As long as you wipe spills fast & vacuum often, you should be fine.

[Odd I/O]

No idea who BR111 is :confused: But anyhow, one of the most reputable manufacturers is Vintage & they do have Tigerwood (known as Muiracatiara) in engineered (solid sawn) & solid which is waaaay less than $12 sq. ft. You can't get any better than that. If you need more info, PM me.

Looks like Sunca is a imported/distributer & never dealt with them.

People are infatuated with exotic woods. You have to be very careful with the stability of your RH in the house. It has to be perfect, not too dry, not too humid. Some of the exotics are really beautiful but I would still stick with domestic.

BR111 specializes in the exotics, lots of good reviews for them on the web. Website: http://www.br111.com/ But for Sunca.... not so much which was why I asked.

Yeah, some of the exotics really are gorgeous which is why I 'm interested. I wanted something a little different from the ususal wood flooring options. Their dimensional stability seems to be less than the domestics anecdotally though which makes it hard deciding whether or not to go with them.

What does "RH" mean?

What's the difference between Solid Sawn and Engineered? Vintage seems to have a separate product line for each?

Thanks for taking the time to read answer all my/our questions in this thread.:)

[slaman]

Thanks for all the great information here...

I'm feeling a bit more confused as I am trying to find a very good quality 5-7.5" wide plank of engineered hardwood that's a deep red-brown like a dark jatoba or santos mahogany.

I was initially thinking of going with the Listone Giordano Plank 190, but apparently those are out of my price range. Is it really $40/sq.ft. or is European Flooring pulling my chain? What about the Plank 140?

As a backup, I'm looking at Vintage Hardwood Flooring, Solid-Sawn Macaranduba, and Torly's Summit series...

Out of the three, which is the highest quality?

[BigUps]

My house closes in mid-December *fingers crossed*, and I want to get hardwood floors installed before I move in. Would installing hardwood floors in winter cause any problems (i.e. gaps because of shrinkage due to the dry air)? Also, should I have a humidifier installed (and risk voiding the warranty on my furnace as my builder tells me) before I have the hardwood installed?

TIA

[patrob]

BR111 specializes in the exotics, lots of good reviews for them on the web. Website: http://www.br111.com/ But for Sunca.... not so much which was why I asked.

Yeah, some of the exotics really are gorgeous which is why I 'm interested. I wanted something a little different from the ususal wood flooring options. Their dimensional stability seems to be less than the domestics anecdotally though which makes it hard deciding whether or not to go with them.

What does "RH" mean?

What's the difference between Solid Sawn and Engineered? Vintage seems to have a separate product line for each?

Thanks for taking the time to read answer all my/our questions in this thread.:)

RH = relative humidity.

Solid Sawn is 3/4" thick made with 3 layers & 4.2 mm veneer. Solid Sawn comes in 3 1/4", 4" & 5" & also 7" hand scraped. It's a bit more rigid.

Engineered only comes in 3 1/2" & 5 1/2". It's 9/16" thick & has a little bit thinner veneer (3 mm) with multilayer base.

[patrob]

Thanks for all the great information here...

I'm feeling a bit more confused as I am trying to find a very good quality 5-7.5" wide plank of engineered hardwood that's a deep red-brown like a dark jatoba or santos mahogany.

I was initially thinking of going with the Listone Giordano Plank 190, but apparently those are out of my price range. Is it really $40/sq.ft. or is European Flooring pulling my chain? What about the Plank 140?

As a backup, I'm looking at Vintage Hardwood Flooring, Solid-Sawn Macaranduba, and Torly's Summit series...

Out of the three, which is the highest quality?

Listone G. is close to that price. Some people call it the "Ferrari" of flooring :D IMO I feel it's way overpriced.

I would def. go with Vintage 5" Macaranduba.

[patrob]

My house closes in mid-December *fingers crossed*, and I want to get hardwood floors installed before I move in. Would installing hardwood floors in winter cause any problems (i.e. gaps because of shrinkage due to the dry air)? Also, should I have a humidifier installed (and risk voiding the warranty on my furnace as my builder tells me) before I have the hardwood installed?

TIA

It's not true, it will not void your warranty. Humidifier is highly recommended & just watch your RH & if it's too dry, you will def. need one.

No, it will not cause problems. You can install floors any time of the year.

[Jonathan987]

Hi patrob,

was wondering if you could help me out with some of your expert advice. I'm about to move into a friend's apartment (condo building) and we are looking to put in some hardwood/engineered hardwood in the apartment. We want to be able to do it ourselves and have been to date looking at stuff from HomeHardware, Rona and Costco.

What are your thoughts on do it yourself easy install products like: EZplank and Golden Select (costco)? What are the draw backs of cheaper systems like these?

Is 7 coats of polyurethane with aluminum oxide standard for all types of hardwood?

Do you have any recommendations for other cheaper types of hardwood that would be worth looking at? We don't mind renting a nail gun -- my friend has experience installing a hardwood floor with a nail gun.

Any draw backs to getting some types of wood over others? Stuff we should stay away from (bamboo)?

There seems to be a bunch of different stuff that you can lay below the hardwood....cork, 3in1 and foam (is this right?) I think I remember reading a post from way back saying you recommend 3in1 the most...what's a good brand to get? Where can we get it?

Any other tipps would be greatly appreciated!

many many thanks!
Jonathan

[patrob]

Hi patrob,

was wondering if you could help me out with some of your expert advice. I'm about to move into a friend's apartment (condo building) and we are looking to put in some hardwood/engineered hardwood in the apartment. We want to be able to do it ourselves and have been to date looking at stuff from HomeHardware, Rona and Costco.

What are your thoughts on do it yourself easy install products like: EZplank and Golden Select (costco)? What are the draw backs of cheaper systems like these?

Is 7 coats of polyurethane with aluminum oxide standard for all types of hardwood?

Do you have any recommendations for other cheaper types of hardwood that would be worth looking at? We don't mind renting a nail gun -- my friend has experience installing a hardwood floor with a nail gun.

Any draw backs to getting some types of wood over others? Stuff we should stay away from (bamboo)?

There seems to be a bunch of different stuff that you can lay below the hardwood....cork, 3in1 and foam (is this right?) I think I remember reading a post from way back saying you recommend 3in1 the most...what's a good brand to get? Where can we get it?

Any other tipps would be greatly appreciated!

many many thanks!
Jonathan

Welcome to RFD. First thing, check with your condo management for specifications.

You will not be needing a nail gun for concrete sub-floor ;)

If you feel confident, every kind of flooring is a DIY. The eng. or laminates with locking systems are the easiest to install yourself in open spaces. It's trickier around archways/doorways especially if you have 3 in a row. I am not a fan of any of the products you have mentioned. Yes, the 3in1 is a great underlay & so is the Torlys single plank laminate. It's pretty reasonably priced, very durable, realistic looking & much better quality.

Real hardwood eng. is a lot more expensive but the best IMO if you want real hardwood. Usually you get what you pay for. So think about it twice before your purchase because it might not be worth it in the long term.

[mondriano]

First off, fantastic information. Far and away, the most viewed topic I have followed on RFD.

Now, on to the questions.

From the reading that I have done, you shy away from Chinese-made product because of the milling of the wood. Is this the only reason? Is the finish of poor quality as well? If one was to buy hardwood that contained the occasional poor quality piece per box, is it acceptable to collect such defective pieces, and return them to the retailer as full boxes of defects?

Related to the above, are there "things" that one can tell from the packaging/marketing of the flooring that would lead a buyer to assume it is a quality product? I see a tremendous amount of terminology thrown about when looking at flooring manufacturer's sites (ie. DuraShield, DurAlOx, etc.). Do these names mean anything? Other than the name brand of the floor itself, are there types of finishes, or standards that a buyer should look for?

Lastly, my fiancee and myself tend to like "lesser" grades of hardwood. By that, I mean that we like to see colour deviations and all those things that come with it being a natural product. The picture below is exactly the type of hardwood that we don't like...it just seems so devoid of wood's natural character. Is it risky to purchase grades poorer than "Select or Better" for residential applications?

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/945/amzrdoakad7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/amzrdoakad7.jpg/1/w463.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img381/amzrdoakad7.jpg/1/)

Thanks for the enormous wealth of knowledge!

[patrob]

First off, fantastic information. Far and away, the most viewed topic I have followed on RFD.

Now, on to the questions.

From the reading that I have done, you shy away from Chinese-made product because of the milling of the wood. Is this the only reason? Is the finish of poor quality as well? If one was to buy hardwood that contained the occasional poor quality piece per box, is it acceptable to collect such defective pieces, and return them to the retailer as full boxes of defects?

Related to the above, are there "things" that one can tell from the packaging/marketing of the flooring that would lead a buyer to assume it is a quality product? I see a tremendous amount of terminology thrown about when looking at flooring manufacturer's sites (ie. DuraShield, DurAlOx, etc.). Do these names mean anything? Other than the name brand of the floor itself, are there types of finishes, or standards that a buyer should look for?

Lastly, my fiancee and myself tend to like "lesser" grades of hardwood. By that, I mean that we like to see colour deviations and all those things that come with it being a natural product. The picture below is exactly the type of hardwood that we don't like...it just seems so devoid of wood's natural character. Is it risky to purchase grades poorer than "Select or Better" for residential applications?

Thanks for the enormous wealth of knowledge!

There is nothing wrong with choosing a more characteristic grade, lighter shades will show more character. Some natural exotics show a lot of variation, which is beautiful in itself.

It's not risky at all to buy lower grade. Yes it does have more variation, more short pieces but the quality of stain & finish is the the same, at least from Vintage or other well known manufacturers. A lot of Asian products their S&B does not qualify as a third grade here. A lot of wood from China has a very delicate finish, which you can easily scratch with your fingernails.

Some manufacturers add a pamphlet to their boxes & it states that a box can have up to 5% of defective wood in it. From Vintage or Mirage it doesn't happen, you may have one or two & any installer should pick them out & still use the good end of it. Stores will not accept open boxes unless it's HD or Costco maybe.

The terminology you see is just a marketing name for their "finish". Most of the manufacturers use the same finish under a diff. name & most of them are aluminum oxide, which are more resistant to damage. Look for UV cured logo & Made in Canada, not Imported by Canada :rolleyes: Avoid plastic wrapped boxes!

Hope this helps :D

[Odd I/O]

RH = relative humidity.

Solid Sawn is 3/4" thick made with 3 layers & 4.2 mm veneer. Solid Sawn comes in 3 1/4", 4" & 5" & also 7" hand scraped. It's a bit more rigid.

Engineered only comes in 3 1/2" & 5 1/2". It's 9/16" thick & has a little bit thinner veneer (3 mm) with multilayer base.

Patrob since you seem to really know Vintage and Mirage could you share which wood (oak/maple/etc..) and stain/colour are your favourites? And maybe a short comment(pros/cons and maybe why?) I'm just looking for a starting point on what to look at if I should back away from the exotics.

Thanks.

[soldoncraig]

Patrob thanks for creating such valuble information thread..

Since i have finished reading all the posts in this thread and i noticed u seem to like/prefer vintage the most.. and u dont like Brampton Hardwood guys due to their wood quality etc...as i was there last week and i picked up few samples for colour purposes to see what fits my living room/family room and it seems i tend to like cherry coloured (not too red) less grainy type woods ( one in the pic to the extreme right (continental maple select and better piece) and 3 on the left are st lawrence maple wood samples.

So my ? is which wood manufacturer's carry something similar to my liking (Vintage?)

- I do like less grainy wood,Smooth finish,canadian milled
-Budget max is $5.90/sq ft ( for wood itself)
-Roughly is 500 sq ft and its going to be straight run install
-Prefer Solid Wood 3 1/4" wide ( i guess thats standard)
- My house faces east and west and therefore lots of sunlight all day long

Would appreaciate ur suggestions

Thanks

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4156/dsc00689cc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/dsc00689cc3.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img171/dsc00689cc3.jpg/1/)


http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1039/dsc00683lt4.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/dsc00683lt4.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img145/dsc00683lt4.jpg/1/)

[warningu]

Hi,

Anyone know anything about 'Tarkett' brand hardwood. Sears came to give me an estimate and that's the brand that they use.

thanks

[patrob]

Patrob since you seem to really know Vintage and Mirage could you share which wood (oak/maple/etc..) and stain/colour are your favourites? And maybe a short comment(pros/cons and maybe why?) I'm just looking for a starting point on what to look at if I should back away from the exotics.

Thanks.

Colourwise, I prefer dark browns. Honestly I like the look of maple but because it shows every defect (my previous house) I will never install it again >:(

From maple, I like medium to dark browns Vintage Godiva or Rembrandt.
From oak, Chariot would be my choice, again dark brown.

But once I have seen an experimental run of Vintage Hand Scraped Baroque eng. (white oak), I knew this would be going into my house :D It's engineered (stable) wide boards 5" or 7" with a beautiful dark brown stain & the hand scraping makes it look very unique. It goes well with every kind of furniture/decor, modern or classic & it's great with kids :lol:

If you really like exotics, I strongly suggest engineered. Many of them are really captivating in natural finish (not stained).

Tigerwood
http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/roomlarge/sde_muiracatiaratigerwood.jpg

[patrob]

Patrob thanks for creating such valuble information thread..

Since i have finished reading all the posts in this thread and i noticed u seem to like/prefer vintage the most.. and u dont like Brampton Hardwood guys due to their wood quality etc...as i was there last week and i picked up few samples for colour purposes to see what fits my living room/family room and it seems i tend to like cherry coloured (not too red) less grainy type woods ( one in the pic to the extreme right (continental maple select and better piece) and 3 on the left are st lawrence maple wood samples.

So my ? is which wood manufacturer's carry something similar to my liking (Vintage?)

- I do like less grainy wood,Smooth finish,canadian milled
-Budget max is $5.90/sq ft ( for wood itself)
-Roughly is 500 sq ft and its going to be straight run install
-Prefer Solid Wood 3 1/4" wide ( i guess thats standard)
- My house faces east and west and therefore lots of sunlight all day long

Would appreaciate ur suggestions

Thanks

Looks like the Continental is their own brand & comparing to St. Lawrence, doesn't look like it's 3/4" thick (at least on the pic). That's a 1st sign of imported wood (China).

The 3 boards on the left (St. Lawrence) from the first glimpse, look like the stain was brushed on, not very uniform. The Continental looks a bit better. Overall I am not a fan of Brampton Hardwood. The reddish shades are a bit un-natural, sometimes they will look more red with bright sun. Maple Vienna from Vintage would be the nicest choice from the med. browns. You can def. find something close to your budget from Vintage. You said you don't like the grain but if you go to darker shades of oak, the grain is slightly hidden.

Remember it's maple, so not the greatest if you have kids :D

[patrob]

Hi,

Anyone know anything about 'Tarkett' brand hardwood. Sears came to give me an estimate and that's the brand that they use.

thanks

Nope, never used it. May I ask what they quoted you (amount of wood, sq. ft., etc.)?

[soldoncraig]

Looks like the Continental is their own brand & comparing to St. Lawrence, doesn't look like it's 3/4" thick (at least on the pic). That's a 1st sign of imported wood (China).

The 3 boards on the left (St. Lawrence) from the first glimpse, look like the stain was brushed on, not very uniform. The Continental looks a bit better. Overall I am not a fan of Brampton Hardwood. The reddish shades are a bit un-natural, sometimes they will look more red with bright sun. Maple Vienna from Vintage would be the nicest choice from the med. browns. You can def. find something close to your budget from Vintage. You said you don't like the grain but if you go to darker shades of oak, the grain is slightly hidden.

Remember it's maple, so not the greatest if you have kids :D

thanks for replying Pat :cheesygri

then would u say this can be less grainy? this is Vintage Oak as i presume you may have installed it/seen it as i am just going by what i see on computer screen and can be lot different when seen in person as wood sample

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/945/amzrdoakad7.jpg

I do like this shade of wood and the uniform look showing in the pic above..
btw i did call ur hubby today and he will be visiting my place sometime next week..thanks for all ur help....

[Jonathan987]

Welcome to RFD. First thing, check with your condo management for specifications.

You will not be needing a nail gun for concrete sub-floor ;)

If you feel confident, every kind of flooring is a DIY. The eng. or laminates with locking systems are the easiest to install yourself in open spaces. It's trickier around archways/doorways especially if you have 3 in a row. I am not a fan of any of the products you have mentioned. Yes, the 3in1 is a great underlay & so is the Torlys single plank laminate. It's pretty reasonably priced, very durable, realistic looking & much better quality.

Real hardwood eng. is a lot more expensive but the best IMO if you want real hardwood. Usually you get what you pay for. So think about it twice before your purchase because it might not be worth it in the long term.

thanks for your help patrob! can you recommend some reasonably priced eng. hardwood floors that have good price/quality trade off?

[patrob]

thanks for replying Pat :cheesygri

then would u say this can be less grainy? this is Vintage Oak as i presume you may have installed it/seen it as i am just going by what i see on computer screen and can be lot different when seen in person as wood sample

I do like this shade of wood and the uniform look showing in the pic above..
btw i did call ur hubby today and he will be visiting my place sometime next week..thanks for all ur help....

What you see on the pic. is Oak but because of the darker stain, the grain is less visible. From Vintage, the first grade (Estate) will be very uniform. IMO the burgundy shades are a bit out of style. The last time anybody asked me about it was a few years ago. Browns/dark browns are very much in style now & they will always be. Chariot is a great stain colour, very uniform. It does look a bit diff. than the sample pic on Vintage website.

[patrob]

thanks for your help patrob! can you recommend some reasonably priced eng. hardwood floors that have good price/quality trade off?

The ones I usually recommend are not cheap :D Take a look at Torlys, a bit less expensive but for sure more than Costco eng.

[mmhassa2]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6642/img1769bm5.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1769bm5.jpg)

Just wanted to use this pic for my question. (hope it ok with jimgiggles)

We're getting this sort of dark hardwood installed and have the same looking stair rails...now the question is how much are we looking to spend to have the rails stained the same color as the new floor?

I will be trying to negotiate the price for it but wanted at least an idea of how much it usually costs. Thanks

[patrob]

Just wanted to use this pic for my question. (hope it ok with jimgiggles)

We're getting this sort of dark hardwood installed and have the same looking stair rails...now the question is how much are we looking to spend to have the rails stained the same color as the new floor?

I will be trying to negotiate the price for it but wanted at least an idea of how much it usually costs. Thanks

It's hard to say, depends if you just want the handrails sanded & re-stained with posts (how many ft. of handrail there is), how many pickets - which are PITA to sand :cheesygri Many times people just paint the pickets white to avoid the extra cost or sometimes even get new ones. It's hard to strip all that varnish in the groves. Remember labour is not cheap & this job is all about labour, so don't try to negotiate too hard or the contractor will just tell you to do it yourself :D :lol:

Actually, it's not that hard to do, if you're patient & want to save some money, you could probably do it yourself.

[Odd I/O]

Colourwise, I prefer dark browns. Honestly I like the look of maple but because it shows every defect (my previous house) I will never install it again >:(

From maple, I like medium to dark browns Vintage Godiva or Rembrandt.
From oak, Chariot would be my choice, again dark brown.

But once I have seen an experimental run of Vintage Hand Scraped Baroque eng. (white oak), I knew this would be going into my house :D It's engineered (stable) wide boards 5" or 7" with a beautiful dark brown stain & the hand scraping makes it look very unique. It goes well with every kind of furniture/decor, modern or classic & it's great with kids :lol:

If you really like exotics, I strongly suggest engineered. Many of them are really captivating in natural finish (not stained).

Maria Rosa
http://www.vintageflooring.com/exotic/rooms/images/Munn%27s_6478.jpg
Tigerwood
http://www.vintageflooring.com/exotic/rooms/images/Dundas_0632.jpg

Patrob thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate your experience with maple, I didn't know that they would show damage so easily. I don't have kids or pets so I guess I should be okay but yet again I don't want to feel like I have to be ultra careful on them.

I've seen the handscraped look only in pictures. Do you find that it gives the room a country-ish/rustic/rough hewn look? Do you have any pictures that can give a good feel for it in a room? Also, why did you go with Engineered with Oak? Why not solid oak? Is it because of the width you needed?

I'm just trying to find a floor that's a little out of the ordinary, not found in most homes but also beautiful.

I couldn't agree with you more about only considering the exotics in natural finish. If you want to stain them you might as well just stick with the domestics.

[patrob]

Patrob thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate your experience with maple, I didn't know that they would show damage so easily. I don't have kids or pets so I guess I should be okay but yet again I don't want to feel like I have to be ultra careful on them.

I've seen the handscraped look only in pictures. Do you find that it gives the room a country-ish/rustic/rough hewn look? Do you have any pictures that can give a good feel for it in a room? Also, why did you go with Engineered with Oak? Why not solid oak? Is it because of the width you needed?

I'm just trying to find a floor that's a little out of the ordinary, not found in most homes but also beautiful.

I couldn't agree with you more about only considering the exotics in natural finish. If you want to stain them you might as well just stick with the domestics.
Regardless what floors you choose, it will eventually show dents or scratches. Not by kids/pets but yourself. I am sure you will drop something here & there, pull a chair or piece of furniture without floor protectors.

The reason we chose engineered was because we wanted that particular colour, width & more durability (it doesn't show dents & scratches as much with 3 kids :D ) Vintage handscraped is not over done, so it does not give you that country feel. It goes well with everything. I will have a pic of the handscraped coming up soon with modern furniture, so I will post it then :)

If you like the exotics, yes they do come in Solid Sawn Eng. (highly recommended over solid). Most of the exotics come in the natural colour with the exception of Jatoba & Tatajuba. They come in 3 1/4", 4" & 5". You only install floors once, so choose the ones you will enjoy the most, even if it does cost a bit more.

[patrob]

Actually, here are some pics of a recently completed project The Royalton Banquet Hall with 12,000 sq. ft. of hardwood floors :cool: :D
The product used was Vintage 5" Hand Scraped.
One of the first banquet halls of this size with hardwood floors, not carpet.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6390/img6070bh0.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3020/img6081ji7.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5672/img6084te9.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9340/img6085gy1.jpg

[soldoncraig]

Just about finished installing 1200 sq. ft of exotic hardwood, but i have a couple of finishing questions..

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8702/img1764mo5.th.jpg (http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1764mo5.jpg)

What should i use to wrap around and finish that with 3/4 hardwood? I bought some 11/16" corner moulding and did the whole bending in the sun with water trick, but it bent the wrong way.. there must be an easier way..

Second question..

I'm not sure how i finish off the bullnose before my step, can i cut the bullnose? or cut the hardwood plank, reason i didn't start off the end of the stair is because i started it off in the master room.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4125/img1767nt5.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1767nt5.jpg)

It looks like a good fit in the picture, but just after that blue line is a piece of pine, that was used as carpet edging when the stairs were carpeted, i would rather cut the bull nose, and have to doctor it at the edge of the stair, as opposed to having a cut plank of hardwood, any idea's or suggestions? And.. i don't want to make the stair even narrower than it already is.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6642/img1769bm5.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1769bm5.jpg)

Mr Jim Giggles,

Can you please let me know what exact type of hardwood you have installed Brand name, Type,width etc as i do like the dark brown colour you have chosen
and also if you can reply what your cost ran upto for wood purchase per sq/ft...i would appreaciate it

[soldoncraig]

What you see on the pic. is Oak but because of the darker stain, the grain is less visible. From Vintage, the first grade (Estate) will be very uniform. IMO the burgundy shades are a bit out of style. The last time anybody asked me about it was a few years ago. Browns/dark browns are very much in style now & they will always be. Chariot is a great stain colour, very uniform. It does look a bit diff. than the sample pic on Vintage website.

Pat sorry to bother u again

Can you tell me what type of wood is this ( theses pics are from ur website projects)

I kinna like these shades of brown too

http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291278

http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291276
http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291280

[patrob]

Pat sorry to bother u again

Can you tell me what type of wood is this ( theses pics are from ur website projects)

I kinna like these shades of brown too

http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291278
http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291276
http://pinocchiohardwoodflooring.webs.com/apps/photos/photo.jsp?photoID=7291280

No bother :D

The first 2 pics is Vintage Hand Scraped Baroque 7" http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/baroque.jpg
& the last pic is Vintage Jatoba Renaissance 4" http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/sse_jatobarenaissance.gif
You can go even darker with Jatoba Venetian Brown

http://www.vintageflooring.com/images/colorlarge/sse_jatobavenetian.gif

[mmhassa2]

Parob,

Thank for the info, after speaking to the company that’s installing the hardwood and them charge like $50 step for replacing the picket and re-staining it looks like the only option I have is to do it myself. I guess I need some walk through instructions as to what I’m getting myself into.

The easiest thing to do is sand them and paint them white, which I’m not too sure about. The reason is the walls are a light beige color along with the carpet on the stairs that are going o be installed are also a light color.

So I was wondering can I sand them and maybe stain them in a dark color? I have never done it so would this be a really big job? Also advice on what kind of sand paper to get and the type of stain? Thanks sooo much

P.s. I plan on doing the work tomorrow and will probably go out later tonight to buy the required stuff.

Edit: Since the pic you posted looks very much like our house, I would like to do the same effect on ours....Here's a pic with both the pics...If you could tell me what I need to do and buy it will be really helpful.

http://www.zshare.net/image/2060525330ca81d3/

[patrob]

Parob,

Thank for the info, after speaking to the company that’s installing the hardwood and them charge like $50 step for replacing the picket and re-staining it looks like the only option I have is to do it myself. I guess I need some walk through instructions as to what I’m getting myself into.

The easiest thing to do is sand them and paint them white, which I’m not too sure about. The reason is the walls are a light beige color along with the carpet on the stairs that are going o be installed are also a light color.

So I was wondering can I sand them and maybe stain them in a dark color? I have never done it so would this be a really big job? Also advice on what kind of sand paper to get and the type of stain? Thanks sooo much

P.s. I plan on doing the work tomorrow and will probably go out later tonight to buy the required stuff.

Edit: Since the pic you posted looks very much like our house, I would like to do the same effect on ours....Here's a pic with both the pics...If you could tell me what I need to do and buy it will be really helpful.

http://www.zshare.net/image/2060525330ca81d3/

For the best results, take the handrail off, to make it faster, use paint stripper. Let it soak, dissolve the varnish & use a light sand paper #80 & then #120 to go right to the bare wood. You have to sand the top & underneath the handrail. For the post also use the paint stripper, sand paper & steel wool in the groves. Apply stain before painting the pickets. Sand the pickets just to scuff the varnish, primer & paint with latex. Paint the sides (stringers) also white. In our previous house, we used Melamine paint for the pickets, which is a lot more durable. Use water based or oil based varnish on water based stain. But recommended oil based varnish on oil based stain.

You can stain the handrail before re-installing it but don't varnish until installed. Because you might have to touch up the joints of the handrail after re-installing. Make sure you cover the surrounding areas well & don't rush :D

[mmhassa2]

Thanks so much! I don't think I want to take handrails (or anything off) as Im not sure if i'll be able to put them back together. I plan on starting tom around 9ish...if I follow the steps you wrote, an estimate how long this would take?

[soldoncraig]

No bother :D

The first 2 pics is Vintage Hand Scraped Baroque 7" http://www.vintageflooring.com/colorshs.asp
& the last pic is Vintage Jatoba Renaissance 4" http://www.vintageflooring.com/colorssse.asp
You can go even darker with Jatoba Venetian Brown

http://www.vintageflooring.com/solidsawnexotic/sse_colors/jatobavenetianbrnn_sml.gif

Hi Pat,

It seems my colour liking is available more in Solid Sawn Exotic or Hand scraped
or even the exotic solid hardwood

So what are the pros and cons compared to OAK solid wood or any other species in regular solid wood

I know we have discussed maple again and again in this thread as how it shows defects etc...so how abt the above category...

Another thing i noted on vintage website that solid sawn catogery has more range for humidity levels compared to regular hardwood

"Relative humidity must be maintained between 30-80%"

So it is more like engineered hardwood

and also is it more expensive??

i do like jatoba Venetian Brown as well ( it does have that uniform colour and tighter grain what i like)

So what are the pro and cons with this one? will it show defects etc and what abt hardness scale?

i would appreaciate ur insight or advice :idea: since its becoming harder for me to pick the final choice of wood :confused: :confused: :confused: :|

[patrob]

Hi Pat,

It seems my colour liking is available more in Solid Sawn Exotic or Hand scraped or even the exotic solid hardwood

So what are the pros and cons compared to OAK solid wood or any other species in regular solid wood

I know we have discussed maple again and again in this thread as how it shows defects etc...so how abt the above category...

Another thing i noted on vintage website that solid sawn catogery has more range for humidity levels compared to regular hardwood

"Relative humidity must be maintained between 30-80%"

So it is more like engineered hardwood and also is it more expensive??

i do like jatoba Venetian Brown as well ( it does have that uniform colour and tighter grain what i like)

So what are the pro and cons with this one? will it show defects etc and what abt hardness scale?

i would appreaciate ur insight or advice :idea: since its becoming harder for me to pick the final choice of wood :confused: :confused: :confused: :|


Jatoba (Brazilian Cherry) has a hardness of 2,350, so much harder than domestic species www.brazilianhardwood.com/products/janka.php
Jatoba will be a bit more resistant to dents than oak or maple because of the hardness. Scratches are a diff. story...

Solid Sawn is engineered & yes it is generally more expensive than solid exotic. Solid Sawn is better & more stable.

IMO looks like the dark Jatoba in solid sawn will be the best choice for you.

[patrob]

Thanks so much! I don't think I want to take handrails (or anything off) as Im not sure if i'll be able to put them back together. I plan on starting tom around 9ish...if I follow the steps you wrote, an estimate how long this would take?

Just the preparation alone will take a whole day of hard work. Get yourself a painters scraper & go along the handrail from the bottom but be careful don't touch the pickets with the sharp edge. It will cut right in. And watch your fingers :D

[mily]

Jatoba will be a bit more resistant to dents than oak or maple because of the hardness. Scratches are a diff. story...

Thanks,Patrob.I am interested in brown wood too,but worried about scratches.What kind of wood do you suggest?I like Brazilian teak or Brazilian walnut.What about domestic woods,like birch or maple?
http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Teak/flooring396.aspx

http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Walnut/flooring394.aspx

[patrob]

Thanks,Patrob.I am interested in brown wood too,but worried about scratches.What kind of wood do you suggest?I like Brazilian teak or Brazilian walnut.What about domestic woods,like birch or maple?
http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Teak/flooring396.aspx

http://www.simplefloors.com/products/Exotics-Flooring/Vintage-Couture-/Brazilian-Walnut/flooring394.aspx

Nothing will prevent scratches. Scratches happen on the finish, regardless what the hardness of the wood is. Maple is hard but has a smooth finish & so is birch plus it's softer.

[BenjaminTwin]

Patrob, great thread. Thanks for all the posts and suggestions. I have one for you, or anyone else here.

I am looking at purchasing one of the following:

1. Model birch hardwood / Walnut / Pacific grade (mix of natural and select/better) at $6.45 sq ft

2. Mercier maple hardwood / medium brown / select and better at $9.64 sq ft

First off, dollar for dollar, which is the better buy, in terms of quality, durability, overall look etc? I like the clean look of maple and birch so I am set on those two types of wood. Also, if you could comment on Model vs. Mercier, it would be helpful. I will have a professional do the install. thanks greatly

[patrob]

Patrob, great thread. Thanks for all the posts and suggestions. I have one for you, or anyone else here.

I am looking at purchasing one of the following:

1. Model birch hardwood / Walnut / Pacific grade (mix of natural and select/better) at $6.45 sq ft

2. Mercier maple hardwood / medium brown / select and better at $9.64 sq ft

First off, dollar for dollar, which is the better buy, in terms of quality, durability, overall look etc? I like the clean look of maple and birch so I am set on those two types of wood. Also, if you could comment on Model vs. Mercier, it would be helpful. I will have a professional do the install. thanks greatly

IMO I would choose Model. It's not because of the price ($10 for Mercier is ridiculous) but I like the finish & milling of Model.
The finish seems smoother & has a nicer bevel & IMO better quality milling.

And you will still have $3 sq. ft. left in your pocket :D I really don't know why Mercier is so expensive :| Is there no Vintage dealer in your area?

[MTD71]

Bamboo floors. Thoughts, comments.

I just purchased a new home and I upgraded to a bamboo floor in the livingroom. I don`t know anyone that has it, but it loks great from what I have seen in the model homes. I heard that it`s very durable though.

[patrob]

Bamboo floors. Thoughts, comments.

I just purchased a new home and I upgraded to a bamboo floor in the livingroom. I don`t know anyone that has it, but it loks great from what I have seen in the model homes. I heard that it`s very durable though.

It has a very modern look, scratches the same if not more as any other hardwood floor. It is also cheaper than reg. hardwood in most cases, so if it's a builder upgrade I am pretty sure they are not going with a high quality flooring.
I hope you didn't pay a lot for it?

[MTD71]

It has a very modern look, scratches the same if not more as any other hardwood floor. It is also cheaper than reg. hardwood in most cases, so if it's a builder upgrade I am pretty sure they are not going with a high quality flooring.
I hope you didn't pay a lot for it?

$9 sq/ft. I was told later by the builders interior decorators that it was supposed to be priced higher, but they gave us a "deal" on it.

I have builder installed engineered hardwood in my home now and I'm happy with it. The wife wanted something different this time.

[patrob]

$9 sq/ft. I was told later by the builders interior decorators that it was supposed to be priced higher, but they gave us a "deal" on it.

I have builder installed engineered hardwood in my home now and I'm happy with it. The wife wanted something different this time.

Not a bad price considering it's a builder upgrade :D

[MTD71]

What should the price be? I was told around $20.

[patrob]

What should the price be? I was told around $20.

$4 to $6 sq. ft. for good bamboo, around $2 to install, possibly carpet removal & your quarter round installation.
They must have been high on something if they told you $20 sq. ft. :| :D

[MTD71]

LOL. Thanks. $20 was what the builder told me is was supposed to be priced at. I know the builders do overcharge for most upgrades though. I'm still very new to the home ownership thing and obviously very uninformed.

As long as the wife is happy with the floor and the granite countertops, I won't hear about the lot premium we paid for the oversized corner lot I wanted.:o

[maryann1]

Hi all, i just bought a town home from the builder and the standard hardwood they will provide is 3-1/4" Superior Red Oak Hardwood.

I can upgrade all my standard hardwood area to 2-1/4” Mirage Oak Hardwood (approx. $2.6/sq ft), 3-1/4” Mirage Oak Hardwood (approx. $3.65/sq ft) or 3-1/4” Mirage Maple Hardwood (approx. $3.2/sq ft) and I have couple of questions and hope the profs in here can help:

1) Is 3-1/4” and 2-1/4” matter? I guess so… just want to confirm…
2) Superior or Mirage? I knew Mirage is better by reading most of the previous posts but is $3.65/sq ft worth to ask builder to do it?
3) My cabinets will be dark brown color/ebony as well as most of my furniture, which color of flooring do you guys think will match the most? Golden/Natural/Nevada/Umbia or other options? Me and my husband like the dark brown flooring because of the modern look but we are concern the house will look too dark as our house is townhouse and doesn’t have a lot of windows and the re-sale value as most people seems like natural light brown color more.
4) Do you guys like the grains on hardwood? If I choose upgrade to Mirage Oak with lesser grains instead of Maple, will the defects and scratches still show? What about Oak in Umbia?

A little reference for my townhouse: I have 3 windows for my 11’L x 20’W recreation area and 4 windows for my 19’L x 14’W dinning room. Since this is our first house and we buy it on plan, I have no clue how many sunlight will come through and how it will look like….. so I am greatly appreciate if you guys can share some of your opinions in here. :)

[gera]

Hi Patrob,

First of all, thanks for this very informative thread!

I will be installing about 1000sqft of NextStep Engineered Hickory from Lauzon. The company recommends either Primatech R610 or Powernail 200 nailers for the installation of this floor. Is there a particular reason for this recommendation? Should we stick to those (they are difficult to get by) or can we use any other nailer? Which one would you recommend?

Thanks in advance

[patrob]

Hi all, i just bought a town home from the builder and the standard hardwood they will provide is 3-1/4" Superior Red Oak Hardwood.

I can upgrade all my standard hardwood area to 2-1/4” Mirage Oak Hardwood (approx. $2.6/sq ft), 3-1/4” Mirage Oak Hardwood (approx. $3.65/sq ft) or 3-1/4” Mirage Maple Hardwood (approx. $3.2/sq ft) and I have couple of questions and hope the profs in here can help:

1) Is 3-1/4” and 2-1/4” matter? I guess so… just want to confirm…
2) Superior or Mirage? I knew Mirage is better by reading most of the previous posts but is $3.65/sq ft worth to ask builder to do it?
3) My cabinets will be dark brown color/ebony as well as most of my furniture, which color of flooring do you guys think will match the most? Golden/Natural/Nevada/Umbia or other options? Me and my husband like the dark brown flooring because of the modern look but we are concern the house will look too dark as our house is townhouse and doesn’t have a lot of windows and the re-sale value as most people seems like natural light brown color more.
4) Do you guys like the grains on hardwood? If I choose upgrade to Mirage Oak with lesser grains instead of Maple, will the defects and scratches still show? What about Oak in Umbia?

A little reference for my townhouse: I have 3 windows for my 11’L x 20’W recreation area and 4 windows for my 19’L x 14’W dinning room. Since this is our first house and we buy it on plan, I have no clue how many sunlight will come through and how it will look like….. so I am greatly appreciate if you guys can share some of your opinions in here. :)

1) Yes, 3 1/4" looks a lot better than 2 1/4"
2) An extra $4 sq. ft. for Mirage is NOT worth it. I personally like the Superior "Coal" colour from their line http://www.superiorflooring.ca/english/index.html
http://www.superiorflooring.ca/english/samples/roak-coa.jpg
3) Dark floors look great with dark furniture, all you do is add lighter accents (pillows, area rugs, window coverings, neutral paint colours, etc.) Actually now-a-days, many people prefer med. to dark browns (burgundy colours are not very popular lately:D) Many builders offer natural finish hardwood, that's why you see it in many homes but they don't have that rich feel IMO & looks plain, unless you are going for that modern look with natural maple floors ;)
4) Oak is the most grainy of all woods. Maple has no grain. Regardless who the manufacturer is, better quality will not mean less grain. Oak will hide defects better. I think you will have plenty of light with those windows.

Good luck :)

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,

First of all, thanks for this very informative thread!

I will be installing about 1000sqft of NextStep Engineered Hickory from Lauzon. The company recommends either Primatech R610 or Powernail 200 nailers for the installation of this floor. Is there a particular reason for this recommendation? Should we stick to those (they are difficult to get by) or can we use any other nailer? Which one would you recommend?

Thanks in advance

You can also use Primatech Q550 18ga Flooring Nailer http://www.primatech.ca/nailers.htm or PowerNail 50P http://www.powernail.com/model50p.htm
They are the same as the other models but pneumatic.
Or you can use some other nailers which use 18 gauge nails, they are meant for engineered flooring. Those are the only nailers you should use.

I find the pneumatic Primatech easier to use & you can nail closer to the wall with just a light touch.

[mdesjardine]

Hi Patrob,
I've just finished having some Mirage Engineered Red Oak installed. We went with Montana stain and we're quite pleased with the look and feel. We purchased from a store who also handled the installation. It turns out that we have 3 sealed boxes of flooring (25 sq ft each) remaining plus a partial open box. I believe the store calculated the labour costs based on the entire wood shipment (975 sq ft). They will refund the cost of the sealed boxes, but initially stated that they won't refund the labour on the sealed boxes. Is that standard practice? I don't mind paying labour on the off-cut overage, but it seems a little unfair to be charged on an over-estimation.
Also, I specifically requested that the subfloor be screwed down everywhere, but the installers only screwed 3 places that squeaked. Do you know how much I should be credited for this service that was not provided?

Thanks,
Marc

[patrob]

Hi Patrob,
I've just finished having some Mirage Engineered Red Oak installed. We went with Montana stain and we're quite pleased with the look and feel. We purchased from a store who also handled the installation. It turns out that we have 3 sealed boxes of flooring (25 sq ft each) remaining plus a partial open box. I believe the store calculated the labour costs based on the entire wood shipment (975 sq ft). They will refund the cost of the sealed boxes, but initially stated that they won't refund the labour on the sealed boxes. Is that standard practice? I don't mind paying labour on the off-cut overage, but it seems a little unfair to be charged on an over-estimation.
Also, I specifically requested that the subfloor be screwed down everywhere, but the installers only screwed 3 places that squeaked. Do you know how much I should be credited for this service that was not provided?

Thanks,
Marc
Everything must be stated in the contract or a quote. For example, if you have 500 sq ft. room, plus 5% for waste, it will give you 525 sq. ft. If the boxes come in 20 sq. ft. per box, you need to order 540 sq. ft. of wood. That will give you almost 3/4 or full box left over. This is normal.

What was the measured sq. ft.? How much did they add for waste?
Some stores charge labour for square footage plus waste (product handled) & some don't. If the 3 boxes are over measured/miscalculation, you should be credited for it. If they want to maintain a good relationship, they can at least compromise & meet you half way with labour. They still handled the full square footage.

Was the re-fastening of the sub-floor in the agreement? Asking doesn't mean anything unless you actually paid for it & the job wasn't done, then yes, they should credit you in full.