Disgusting letter received from Property Mgr.

[mirek]

I just bought my condo a few month ago, 3 story walk up in Vancouver. We have a 11 year old dog, Shiba Inu, well trained. However he is old, and lived in the same house for 11 years, so changing his dwelling made him a little uneasy. He's fine when we're home, playful and energetic, but when we leave he cries. It's not something that he can adjust to instantly.

Anyways, we got a few complaints about him being loud while we are gone, and I understand it can be frustrating, however I get this letter from the Property Manager, where among othe things it says

"... complaints are received regarding your dog noting that it cries throughout many hours of the day, is muzzled for continued periods of time of course causing quite a distress to the dog itself, and generally is treated in a manor, which is not appropriate, ....."

The dog has only been muzzled ONCE, when we had to take him to the vet, because he will bite the Vet if not muzzled. And only 1 neighbours saw that, the overweight, underloved strata president who lives below me, who loves to complain that I "walk too loud".

This letter was CC'd to All Council Members. I can not believe that they would say that I treat my dog inappropriately. I am offended. We love our dog, he gets 3 walks a day, and is constantly being played with.

What can I do?

[bionicbadger]

We have a shiba too, and most people have never seen one. the Shiba yell does sound like the dog is in agony, but its just one of the noises they make.

That being said, if your dog is making lots of noise, the neighbours do have a right to complain. Though I would just ignore the mistreated aspect unless they push it on you again, then ask them if they are familiar at all with siba dogs or if they have any evidence of mistreatment.

[Cerealbowl]

And set your dog on the Property Manager.

[mirek]

And set your dog on the Property Manager.

The muzzle is only for the vet, otherwise the dog is fine.

I agree they are allowed to complain, but to say that the dog is treated in a manor that inappropriate is insulting.

[mirek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuIRNMQhIH8

That's the Shiba yell... :\

[naxos98]

I have a story from the other side. The condo owner on the other side of me has a dog which barks and whines at varying hours of the day. I haven't made a complaint yet. I realize that dog owners need to get to work and leave their dogs at home. But at the same time, I don't enjoy getting woken up by the dog's barks and whines at 6:00am.

I want to remain an accommodating neighbor, but every morning that the dog wakes me up slowly wears away at my level of tolerance. Anyone have a suggestion for what to do (I know I can file a complaint, but I wonder if there is anything that can be done before it reaches that point)?

[mirek]

I have a story from the other side. The condo owner on the other side of me has a dog which barks and whines at varying hours of the day. I haven't made a complaint yet. I realize that dog owners need to get to work and leave their dogs at home. But at the same time, I don't enjoy getting woken up by the dog's barks and whines at 6:00am.

I want to remain an accommodating neighbor, but every morning that the dog wakes me up slowly wears away at my level of tolerance. Anyone have a suggestion for what to do (I know I can file a complaint, but I wonder if there is anything that can be done before it reaches that point)?

6am is really early. Our dog was only left alone from 11AM to 5PM, and all other times he was quiet. I suggest you just go and talk to them before you file a complaint,

[MrBurns]

if you leave your dog in a "manor" then what's that got to do with a condo?



Seriously though... maybe leave a camcorder on in your house and see how much your dog cries. It's really a pain in the ass to have to hear that.

[mirek]

if you leave your dog in a "manor" then what's that got to do with a condo?



Seriously though... maybe leave a camcorder on in your house and see how much your dog cries. It's really a pain in the ass to have to hear that.

I have heard him cry, he did it as a puppy too, it took him a few months to get used to his new(old) house. Then he was fine.

[stealth]

Disgusting is a strong word..
But I agree if he is howling constantly, thats your problem you need to rectify, other tenants/neighbors shouldnt have to put up with that (some people have days off, at home sick, work night shifts etc., so its completely unacceptable).

As to the muzzle, I commend you on being sensible and responsible enough to acknowledge that your particular dog might be a danger, and to ensure that everyone is safe. If more dog owners (pitbull owners amongst them) were this responsible, there would be no need for breed bans.

The landlord is stupid on this count...if your dog bit someone, he'd be saying it should have had a muzzle. But when you put a muzzle on, he calls it cruel, lol...Some people know nothing about dogs.

[stealth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuIRNMQhIH8

That's the Shiba yell... :\

If the girl in the vid was my neighbor, I'd pay someone to run her over with a car for encouraging her dogs to make that racket. What the hell kind of training is that?

[mirek]

Disgusting is a strong word..
But I agree if he is howling constantly, thats your problem you need to rectify, other tenants/neighbors shouldnt have to put up with that (some people have days off, at home sick, work night shifts etc., so its completely unacceptable).

As to the muzzle, I commend you on being sensible and responsible enough to acknowledge that your particular dog might be a danger, and to ensure that everyone is safe. If more dog owners (pitbull owners amongst them) were this responsible, there would be no need for breed bans.

The landlord is stupid on this count...if your dog bit someone, he'd be saying it should have had a muzzle. But when you put a muzzle on, he calls it cruel, lol...Some people know nothing about dogs.

I have no problem with the noise complaint, I acknowledge it, and accept it, if there was a fine, I would pay it uncontested. It is the fact that the strata is saying that the dog is being treated inappropriately is what irks me.

[bionicbadger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuIRNMQhIH8

That's the Shiba yell... :\
Thats just dog howling, thats not the shiba scream. The scream makes it sound like the dog is in agony, its not something other dogs do as far as I know.

This is pretty close: (shiba getting sprayed with hose)
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NTjPiYfjBmY

[BobW]

Get ready to move.

Seriously.


You've got a condo board prez below you who is pizzed with you. You won't win that battle. You'll get a couple nasty letters and then they will start doing whatever they can do to you as per the condo rules and regs. You better start studying them so you can defend yourself.

But, in the end, you will lose.

[mirek]

Yeah I am hoping to move in the next 3 years, I just bought the place, my first place, I'm a young 25 year old professional, I just don't have the time or patience to deal with a 50 year old nutty lady. Until then I'll just have to deal with living above a nut.

[mirek]

This letter just upsets me off everytime i read it. It's like them sending a letter to a tenant about them beating their kid when they don't. *sigh*

[Dustbunny]

...I'm a young 25 year old professional, I just don't have the time or patience to deal with a 50 year old nutty lady. Until then I'll just have to deal with living above a nut.

Well I was almost on your side until you pulled an ageist, sexist remark. Sorry, that says a lot about you. Whether this person is nutty has as much to do with being 50 or female as you being a responsible owner has to do with being 25. Following your logic, at your age you might consider that you may be regarded as a young punk with no business having a dog. Fair? Nope, but that's what labeling people does. Anyone in any group can take on traits but if you go bringing age, race, sex, or anything else into it you are going to have a harder time figuring out what to do when faced with issues like this.

Meanwhile, you obviously have a dog who is in distress there. I don't care how well he did at the last place, how his breed sounds, or anything else. A dog who is making a lot of noise during the day is in distress. It's really simple. Happy, well adjusted, and properly trained dogs don't make a lot of noise during the day unless they do some occasional watchdog type barking which only lasts a minute or two. Dogs who are making noise all day are doing so because of anxiety.

Have you considered doggy daycare? Yes it costs, but to ask an 11 year old dog to get comfortable when he has no way to do that isn't really reasonable (since he's in a new environment, no doubt constant strange noises, no way to assure him what he's hearing is okay if you aren't there). At 11 he probably doesn't need the stress it's bringing him either so it could impact his health. Daycare would solve both his distress and the neighbours being bothered. A win/win for everyone.

You could also call a dog behaviourist to see what they suggest since with you working all day, everyday, you didn't have time to get him used to things gradually.

As for feeling bent out of shape over the comments on how you treat the dog, you might want to take some time to write your side and send it as a response to the letter you got (to the person you got it from). Do take your time and present it as educating the others vs defending and you may find it will go over better. You can also offer info about your dog's breed and characteristics if you think that will help. Explain when he's been muzzled and your dismay at people thinking it is all the time. Whatever makes you feel better but keep your attitude in check.

Personally, I don't buy the scream bit. My dog makes noises just like that and it does sound like they are being killed. Truth is though, they don't make noises unless they have a reason and generally it's sure never when they are just being happy. In all those videos on youtube, the dog was being bothered in some way, they weren't just sitting there in contentment when they started making noise. So if the neighbours are worried about your dog or the noise they have to listen to, assume they are truly concerned. There may be some real dog lovers there who are very worried about the wellbeing of your dog and they may have good reason if he's crying all day. It's just not the sign of a healthy happy pet and I bet it's heartbreaking and annoying to listen to.

You'll do better if you work on a solution than being PO'd because you don't like people thinking your aren't caring for your dog. You need to get a grip on this. If you don't, count on it escalating until Animal Control or someone is called to get the dog away from you.

I hope you do find a solution. Approach it right and you will probably find everyone including yourself will be happy.

[Gloaming]

Well I was almost on your side until you pulled an ageist, sexist remark. Sorry, that says a lot about you. Whether this person is nutty has as much to do with being 50 or female as you being a responsible owner has to do with being 25. Following your logic, at your age you might consider that you may be regarded as a young punk with no business having a dog. Fair? Nope, but that's what labeling people does. Anyone in any group can take on traits but if you go bringing age, race, sex, or anything else into it you are going to have a harder time figuring out what to do when faced with issues like this.

Meanwhile, you obviously have a dog who is in distress there. I don't care how well he did at the last place, how his breed sounds, or anything else. A dog who is making a lot of noise during the day is in distress. It's really simple. Happy, well adjusted, and properly trained dogs don't make a lot of noise during the day unless they do some occasional watchdog type barking which only lasts a minute or two. Dogs who are making noise all day are doing so because of anxiety.

Have you considered doggy daycare? Yes it costs, but to ask an 11 year old dog to get comfortable when he has no way to do that isn't really reasonable (since he's in a new environment, no doubt constant strange noises, no way to assure him what he's hearing is okay if you aren't there). At 11 he probably doesn't need the stress it's bringing him either so it could impact his health. Daycare would solve both his distress and the neighbours being bothered. A win/win for everyone.

You could also call a dog behaviourist to see what they suggest since with you working all day, everyday, you didn't have time to get him used to things gradually.

As for feeling bent out of shape over the comments on how you treat the dog, you might want to take some time to write your side and send it as a response to the letter you got (to the person you got it from). Do take your time and present it as educating the others vs defending and you may find it will go over better. You can also offer info about your dog's breed and characteristics if you think that will help. Explain when he's been muzzled and your dismay at people thinking it is all the time. Whatever makes you feel better but keep your attitude in check.

Personally, I don't buy the scream bit. My dog makes noises just like that and it does sound like they are being killed. Truth is though, they don't make noises unless they have a reason and generally it's sure never when they are just being happy. In all those videos on youtube, the dog was being bothered in some way, they weren't just sitting there in contentment when they started making noise. So if the neighbours are worried about your dog or the noise they have to listen to, assume they are truly concerned. There may be some real dog lovers there who are very worried about the wellbeing of your dog and they may have good reason if he's crying all day. It's just not the sign of a healthy happy pet and I bet it's heartbreaking and annoying to listen to.

You'll do better if you work on a solution than being PO'd because you don't like people thinking your aren't caring for your dog. You need to get a grip on this. If you don't, count on it escalating until Animal Control or someone is called to get the dog away from you.

I hope you do find a solution. Approach it right and you will probably find everyone including yourself will be happy.

Where the heck is the "sexist" remark??? Seriously- you are just as guilty of false assumptions as the other Condo people are in ASSUMING that the muzzle is in constant use and that the dog is in agony all the time.

[mlc2000]

I had a neighbour with 2 150+lb Akitas. Man, they barked day and night.
SHe got a similar letter so she bought the Citronella anti-bark collars and they worked like a charm.

http://fuzzytummy.com/tellmebarking.htm

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=fuzzy&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=898891627&Count2=816032052

[Dustbunny]

Where the heck is the "sexist" remark??? Seriously- you are just as guilty of false assumptions as the other Condo people are in ASSUMING that the muzzle is in constant use and that the dog is in agony all the time.

The sexist remark was "I just don't have the time or patience to deal with a 50 year old nutty lady". To me, a non labelling remark might have simply said 'nutty neighbour'. Also it was not me who assumed the muzzle was in constant use, nor did I say it was. I said "Explain when he's been muzzled and your dismay at people thinking it is all the time."

You don't read very carefully.

[robattoronto]

What does your condo rules & regulations say? I would read that carefully and consult a lawyer.

Not easy to just sell the place and leave.

[mapleflag]

OP, you might want to ask the vet about the use of the collar mentioned in post #19. And I suggest you heed the advice in post #17. Good luck!

[stealth]

Thats just dog howling, thats not the shiba scream. The scream makes it sound like the dog is in agony, its not something other dogs do as far as I know.

This is pretty close: (shiba getting sprayed with hose)
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NTjPiYfjBmY

ahhh...i c We have a neighbor with a dog that makes that noise about every day around 5:30. it does sound like its being tortured. Very disconcerting noise.

I think the word "lady" being considered a sexist remark is a big stretch...but calling her nutty is also pretty unfair. If someone doesnt know much about dogs and hears one of those crazy things I could see how she would think its being abused. They really do sound like a dog thats being killed. Not everyone with a difference in opinion is "nutty".
Our malamute howls occasionally, but I cant imagine living with a Shiba based on the vid, as well as what we hear from our neighbors dog (about 8 houses down). Theres too many other great breeds out there.

[mirek]

The sexist remark was "I just don't have the time or patience to deal with a 50 year old nutty lady". To me, a non labelling remark might have simply said 'nutty neighbour'. Also it was not me who assumed the muzzle was in constant use, nor did I say it was. I said "Explain when he's been muzzled and your dismay at people thinking it is all the time."

You don't read very carefully.

I'm not sexist, it could be a 50 year old male for all I care. The fact is that she's been unwelcoming since she first saw me move it. I'm assuming she has something against me being so young and moving into this building. I'm just saying she 50 years old, a lady, and ****in nutty. She is your typical nosey neighbour who does not have anything better to do.

I'll try the citronella.

[Pete_Coach]

I'm not sexist, it could be a 50 year old male for all I care. The fact is that she's been unwelcoming since she first saw me move it. I'm assuming she has something against me being so young and moving into this building. I'm just saying she 50 years old, a lady, and ****in nutty. She is your typical nosey neighbour who does not have anything better to do.

I'll try the citronella.

Boy, you have shifted this from a one line statement in a letter to the people (person) living around you. The letter may have been a comment on what the dog sounds like during the day. You say that is the noise this breed makes and to the beholder, it may sound like a muzzled animal. Really, you have a dog that bothers the neighbors, you have a problem not the neighbors.
It does not matter if the dog howls, barks, screams or yelp, it is your dog and you need to control it. All the time. It does not matter if you are a 25 year old professional or a 50 year old woman (who may work nights?). The treatment for your situation would remain the same, control your pet.

[mirek]

Boy, you have shifted this from a one line statement in a letter to the people (person) living around you. The letter may have been a comment on what the dog sounds like during the day. You say that is the noise this breed makes and to the beholder, it may sound like a muzzled animal. Really, you have a dog that bothers the neighbors, you have a problem not the neighbors.
It does not matter if the dog howls, barks, screams or yelp, it is your dog and you need to control it. All the time. It does not matter if you are a 25 year old professional or a 50 year old woman (who may work nights?). The treatment for your situation would remain the same, control your pet.


I have no issue with the noise, the point I am saying is that they are saying I am treating my dog inappropriately. The dog is under control now.

[Pete_Coach]

I have no issue with the noise, the point I am saying is that they are saying I am treating my dog inappropriately. The dog is under control now.

Of course you have no issue with the noise, it is your dog making the noise. As I said, it appears that your dog apparently makes some kind of strange sounds and the person writing the letter may have taken that as an animal being muzzled, therefore that made that comment in the letter. Now they know better but, do you and your dog?
Your animals noises (call them barking, howling or whatever) are intrusive to others.

[stealth]

Of course you have no issue with the noise, it is your dog making the noise. As I said, it appears that your dog apparently makes some kind of strange sounds and the person writing the letter may have taken that as an animal being muzzled, therefore that made that comment in the letter. Now they know better but, do you and your dog?
Your animals noises (call them barking, howling or whatever) are intrusive to others.

+1
I think the OP is deflecting here...the real issue is not what the neighbor/landlord etc. said or wrote, its you taking responsibility(action) for the noise your dog is making. Until you correct your dogs behaviour and become a "good neighbor", you have nothing to be offended or disgusted about.

[CharmyPoo]

As a dog owner, I feel your pain but yet I feel the pain of your neighbours. Then again, I am a pretty accomdating neighbour - they said we were walking too loud (mind you.. I am pretty tiny and weigh under 100 lbs). We put in upgraded floors and padding.

I have lived in a house for many years and my dogs are used to barking if someone rings the door bell or comes near the house. I have never stopped this behaviour because it didn't bother me. However, in our new stacked townhouse - they can frequently hear someone or something and the barking has increased. I can control it while I am at home because I can get them to be quiet. When I am not home that is a different story ..

I was worried that they were making too much noise (especially with their howling barks). I setup a web cam so I can see what they are up to and how much barking they do while I am gone. They sleep most of the day but on occasion - they do bark a lot. I ended up moving them to my top floor while I am out because they can't hear any of the neighbours up there.

I suggest that you fix the barking problem as soon as possible. Most condos can boot your dog out. I have heard that these citronella spray collars are pretty good. (http://www.multivet.net/en/products/antibark/).

[Sylvestre]

I just bought my condo a few month ago, 3 story walk up in Vancouver. We have a 11 year old dog, Shiba Inu, well trained. However he is old, and lived in the same house for 11 years, so changing his dwelling made him a little uneasy. He's fine when we're home, playful and energetic, but when we leave he cries. It's not something that he can adjust to instantly.

Anyways, we got a few complaints about him being loud while we are gone, and I understand it can be frustrating, however I get this letter from the Property Manager, where among othe things it says

"... complaints are received regarding your dog noting that it cries throughout many hours of the day, is muzzled for continued periods of time of course causing quite a distress to the dog itself, and generally is treated in a manor, which is not appropriate, ....."

The dog has only been muzzled ONCE, when we had to take him to the vet, because he will bite the Vet if not muzzled. And only 1 neighbours saw that, the overweight, underloved strata president who lives below me, who loves to complain that I "walk too loud".

This letter was CC'd to All Council Members. I can not believe that they would say that I treat my dog inappropriately. I am offended. We love our dog, he gets 3 walks a day, and is constantly being played with.

What can I do?

Welcome to the world of community living. You do realize that living in a condo is very very different from living in a house? You MUST consider your actions on others.

You say you've been there a few months, that you leave the dog alone and he cries, and that the crying is clearly heard by neighbours.
And you don't think that's your fault? Or that people should put up with it?
You are offended by a letter? Imagine how offended your neighbours are for having to put up with the noise.

sheesh.

[mirek]

Welcome to the world of community living. You do realize that living in a condo is very very different from living in a house? You MUST consider your actions on others.

You say you've been there a few months, that you leave the dog alone and he cries, and that the crying is clearly heard by neighbours.
And you don't think that's your fault? Or that people should put up with it?
You are offended by a letter? Imagine how offended your neighbours are for having to put up with the noise.

sheesh.


The noise issue was resolved, the dog no longer cries or howls, I have been here 2 months, however the dog was here for 3 week while we were getting him adjusted to his new dwelling, he's an older dog.

I do understand my neighbours concern, what offends me about the letter is that the lady downstairs spoke to the property mgr and told him that we are treating the dog in a manner that is inappropriate! I have never said that the dog was not loud or that the noise didn't need to be fixed.

Again, the NOISE ISSUES IS RESOLVED. I just don't understand how someone can just say that I treat my dog in an inappropriate manner. Just because she saw the dog once with the muzzle when it was being taken to the vet.

Am I just being too sensitive? If your property manager wrote a letter saying that you treated your children in an manner that was inappropriate would you not be offended? I don't see how it's any different...?

[Sylvestre]

Here's a neighbour who's been hearing a dog crying all day, and sees you not doing anything about it.
Yeah, If I were your neighbour and heard an animal treated like that, I'd say you were doing a bad job.

[mirek]

Here's a neighbour who's been hearing a dog crying all day, and sees you not doing anything about it.
Yeah, If I were your neighbour and heard an animal treated like that, I'd say you were doing a bad job.

:confused: I do a good job with my dog, he's a happy dog who's treated great.

[stealth]

Am I just being too sensitive? If your property manager wrote a letter saying that you treated your children in an manner that was inappropriate would you not be offended? I don't see how it's any different...?
You're right, its no different, AND you are being too sensitive. If the letter was written that someone was treating their children improperly BASED on multiple and confirmed reports of crying, screaming etc coming from the apartment/child in question, then you would have no reason to be offended, just embarrased for creating a scenario which turned your neighbors against you. You keep forgetting that the thing that is offending you, is also somewhat justified from the other side, and thats why you havent been getting much love on RFD on this topic.
Dude, just let it go. We've all been there. They probably have exaggerated it a bit for effect, but prob to the same extent that you've diminished the possible impact to your neighbors of a nuisance dog.
Time heals all wounds. If your dog is no longer making noise when you are both home and not home, your neighbors will chill out and it will all be forgotten. Just consider it a lesson learned, that if you p!ss people off enough, they may take the gloves off in letters to/about you.

[stealth]

:confused: I do a good job with my dog, he's a happy dog who's treated great.
Probably, and I belive you. Some dogs are insecure and they get stressed when owners arent home, or excited when they arrive.
But it comes down to PERCEPTION by people who cant see through your walls, they only hear something distressful (or at least previously did).
Its like a sitcom, any sitcom, where one character eavesdrops or overhears part of a conversation of 2 other characters and then comes to the incorrect conclusion that they are having an affair, or or someone is dying, or going to kill someone, etc....and the hilarity ensues. :)

[mirek]

You're right, its no different, AND you are being too sensitive. If the letter was written that someone was treating their children improperly BASED on multiple and confirmed reports of crying, screaming etc coming from the apartment/child in question, then you would have no reason to be offended, just embarrased for creating a scenario which turned your neighbors against you. You keep forgetting that the thing that is offending you, is also somewhat justified from the other side, and thats why you havent been getting much love on RFD on this topic.
Dude, just let it go. We've all been there. They probably have exaggerated it a bit for effect, but prob to the same extent that you've diminished the possible impact to your neighbors of a nuisance dog.
Time heals all wounds. If your dog is no longer making noise when you are both home and not home, your neighbors will chill out and it will all be forgotten. Just consider it a lesson learned, that if you p!ss people off enough, they may take the gloves off in letters to/about you.

It was not multiple, I spoke with the property manager and he said it was just the one lady downstairs that has said anything. The one that has had it in for me since I moved in, in my opinion :)

I've let it go, it just sucks to be labels an abusive pet owner by the property manager and then have it CC'd to the whole council.