In-wall/ceiling speakers

[dandiggler]

Im gonna get in my unfinished house to run speakers and wire in the family room, kitchen, dining and master bedroom.

Im been looking around and these speakers are kinda expensive.

Any ideas of where to get good quality and low prices and any brand names to look out for.

ive been allowed access to my house by the builder on the weekends so if anyone has any other ideas of upgrades i can do myself please pass them on.

Thanks

[The_Professor]

Paradigm (Canadian speaker manufacturer) makes a good selection of in wall speakers. Some are quite expensive while others are a little more affordable. As in most cases, you get what you pay for. If you're not an audiophile I'd likely not go with the Paradigms as there are certainly cheaper brands on the market.

[BuildingHomes]

Audio is subjective so what may sound good to you may sound like crap to another person.

But it is typically accepted that the more you spend, the better the speaker.

If you are looking at doing inwall/ceiling speakers, I always recommend placing speaker brackets. This way you can measure out where the speakers will be and the drywallers will cut around the bracket. Then when it comes time to mount the speaker, you just trim the drywall, connect the speaker and place it.

And note that you need to be aware of where you run speaker wire. There are some things that you should not do, one being NEVER use the same holes as the electrical wire. And use inwall speaker wire and not the see-through stuff.

If you need assistance (and speakers), please feel free to contact me. This is part of what I do.

[Jay1234]

Paradigm (Canadian speaker manufacturer) makes a good selection of in wall speakers. Some are quite expensive while others are a little more affordable. As in most cases, you get what you pay for. If you're not an audiophile I'd likely not go with the Paradigms as there are certainly cheaper brands on the market.


I personally prefer B&W over Paradigm. Love the B&W with Kevlar cones.

[Pete_Coach]

Here are speakers at a reasonable price http://www.htd.com/in-wall-ceiling-speakers

If you are making a purpose built area and want the home theatre set up to be incorporated in the walls and ceilings then it is one thing but, if you want sound in various rooms etc don't do as my friend who wired many speakers throughout the house but they were single speakers and he had poor stereo sound. There speakers that you can reproduce stereo from one speaker. He had to replace the single speakers and run more wires afterwards.run extra wires and

[PCDawg]

I personally prefer B&W over Paradigm. Love the B&W with Kevlar cones.

But they are pricey. The OP is looking for decent priced speakers.

There's tons of speakers out there that are very decent and made in Canada. Energy and mirage have some low to high end which are very affordable and sounds amazing.

Its best to not have an in-wall speaker set-up as if you do play to sell the house, not everyone would like a few placement holes in the walls as they could not be home theatre enthusiasts.

With just wall mounted brackets, holes can be easily patched and painted over.

[Jay1234]

Here are speakers at a reasonable price http://www.htd.com/in-wall-ceiling-speakers

If you are making a purpose built area and want the home theatre set up to be incorporated in the walls and ceilings then it is one thing but, if you want sound in various rooms etc don't do as my friend who wired many speakers throughout the house but they were single speakers and he had poor stereo sound. There speakers that you can reproduce stereo from one speaker. He had to replace the single speakers and run more wires afterwards.run extra wires and

Yes there are single point stereo speakers, good speaker companies make these.

I always believe that you should buy speakers from a "speaker company". This means that a company that specializes in speakers an not a bunch of stuff.

Goes with the old saying "jack of all trades, master of none".

Jay

[BuildingHomes]

I always believe that you should buy speakers from a "speaker company". This means that a company that specializes in speakers an not a bunch of stuff.


This sounds like the Jay that matches up with this picture :)
http://www.phand.ca/index.php?image=8


The single point speakers are called Dual Voice Coil. They are a single 'woofer' with a pair of tweeters in the middle that are usually facing away from each other at a slight angle.

I've installed a number of different speakers from different companies, mostly the higher end Russound and RBH speakers, but I have also just recently installed a number of Stealth Acoustics speakers. Amazing sound from an invisible speaker. www.stealthacoustics.com

[Pete_Coach]

Yes there are single point stereo speakers, good speaker companies make these.

I always believe that you should buy speakers from a "speaker company". This means that a company that specializes in speakers an not a bunch of stuff.

Goes with the old saying "jack of all trades, master of none".

Jay

I agree. I do believe that HTD manufactures the equipment, at least the website says they do. My real point was that single point stereo was generally the most effective option unless it is a purpose built room.

[sharppencil]

Any reviews on Speakercraft speakers?

[Jay1234]

This sounds like the Jay that matches up with this picture :)
http://www.phand.ca/index.php?image=8

Yep you guessed it!

[grant]

The single point speakers are called Dual Voice Coil. They are a single 'woofer' with a pair of tweeters in the middle that are usually facing away from each other at a slight angle.
???

Dual Voice Coil (DVC) is a wiring pattern for a single driver. Its purpose is to offer more flexible powering, particularly for high output amplifiers. http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_dual.html

I believe you're thinking of composite speakers, which have multiple drivers and usually a passive crossover mounted in a single frame
http://www.electronics-manufacturers.com/Car_electronics/Car_speakers_and_subwoofers/

[BuildingHomes]

Dual Voice Coil (DVC) is a wiring pattern for a single driver. Its purpose is to offer more flexible powering, particularly for high output amplifiers. http://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_dual.html

I believe you're thinking of composite speakers, which have multiple drivers and usually a passive crossover mounted in a single frame
http://www.electronics-manufacturers.com/Car_electronics/Car_speakers_and_subwoofers/


Then maybe I have described it incorrectly.

The way I read it on RBH, Russound and Destination Audio is they state Dual Voice Coil for all of their single point, stereo speakers.

If you have a better way for me to describe it, I'm open to it.


http://www.destinationaudio.com/html/ac642.htm
http://www.rbhsound.com/a815d.shtml
http://www.russound.com/spa6s.htm

[The_Professor]

I believe you're thinking of composite speakers, which have multiple drivers and usually a passive crossover mounted in a single frame
http://www.electronics-manufacturers.com/Car_electronics/Car_speakers_and_subwoofers/

I thought they were called coaxial speakers?

[loudsubz]

Most inwalls or inceilings are just used for background music where quality and tonality arnt a big issue. I havn't heard a set of decent priced in wall or in ceiling speakers that sound really good...enough for me to give up a nice bookshelf or floor standing cousin.

For a decent price speaker I like the AudioTrak professional line.
http://www.audiotrak.com/pdfs/STS-BSI-In-Wall-Speakers.pdf

They also have a Platinum line but I can't really tell the difference for background listening.

Call me old fashioned but it would take some persuading for me to go full inwall over floorstanding or bookshelf for a nice 2ch audio setup. But for a HT application or regular background music inwalls are pretty nice and you dont have to have big bulky speakers in the way.

TruAudio also makes a nice speaker, they are newer but have a nice product lineup.

We also deal with this stuff all the time.

[BuildingHomes]

Stealth Acoustics. Very very nice inwall and invisible speakers. Quite suitable for a home theatre, primary listening area, or background music.

They actually fit flush with the drywall and you paint right over them.

I recently installed a dozen in a house. While they are a little more tricky to put in, the results make everyone happy, especially if you do not want to see them.

[led2]

BuildingHomes: about the in-wall speaker wire, do you think that 18 Gauge is thick enough for surround speakers? I got some Belden 18G which I want to route in-wall for 2 surround speakers. I figured that would be enough just for surround sound. Of course my main speakers will have heavier gauge wires.

BTW, I got the wire at Electrosonic and it had the plastic jacket.

Do you also know where I can get some wall-mount speaker brackets for surround speakers?

thanks


Audio is subjective so what may sound good to you may sound like crap to another person.

But it is typically accepted that the more you spend, the better the speaker.

If you are looking at doing inwall/ceiling speakers, I always recommend placing speaker brackets. This way you can measure out where the speakers will be and the drywallers will cut around the bracket. Then when it comes time to mount the speaker, you just trim the drywall, connect the speaker and place it.

And note that you need to be aware of where you run speaker wire. There are some things that you should not do, one being NEVER use the same holes as the electrical wire. And use inwall speaker wire and not the see-through stuff.

If you need assistance (and speakers), please feel free to contact me. This is part of what I do.

[BuildingHomes]

If you have one of those home theatre in a box things, then 18g is going to be better than the crappy 22 and 28g wire that I have seen come with them.

I would still recommend a minimum of 16g for smaller rooms and 14g for larger rooms, or 12g if you are really seriously driving some big stuff.

As for brackets, I was referring to predrywall mounting for inwall/ceiling speakers. However for mounting satellite speakers, yes. I'll send you a PM.


BuildingHomes: about the in-wall speaker wire, do you think that 18 Gauge is thick enough for surround speakers? I got some Belden 18G which I want to route in-wall for 2 surround speakers. I figured that would be enough just for surround sound. Of course my main speakers will have heavier gauge wires.

BTW, I got the wire at Electrosonic and it had the plastic jacket.

Do you also know where I can get some wall-mount speaker brackets for surround speakers?

thanks

[grant]

http://www.russound.com/spa6s.htm
If you look at that url, the specifications say:
Type: 2-way single-point stereo (dual-coil woofer with dual tweeters)

You'll see the WOOFER is described as having dual coils. That is because each the left & right channel from the amplifier is used to power the single woofer. The combined power makes it louder.

Basically, it's cheaper to put 2x as much power into a single speaker than 1x the power into two speakers, and you get the same loudness with the loss of channel separation... which isn't an issue for bass anyways.

The tweeters, of course, do not need and probably cannot handle so much power so I guess that's why there's 2 of them. they each get their own channel.

I thought they were called coaxial speakers?
Yes I think that is a synonym.

[mrfrostyman]

Sorry to revive this old thread but i am also looking for ceiling speakers for my sisters new basement.

They are going to be used for the surround L/R. They will have 2 floor mains, a center and a sub. However due to the design of the basement inwall or floor speakers will not work for them on the surround aspect.

I will be buying the speakers, but i dont really want to kill my bank account for them. Is there any people selling speakers that are ceiling mountable (in the ceiling) for around 150 for the pair? Used is an option as long as they sound half decent.

I got them 14g wire to run already and the run is only 30 ft or so.

I am in the GTA so a local dealer would be preferred, again as long as they sound half decent.

They are not big sound people, so they do not have to be crazy or anything, since right now they are using a denon 5.1 HT set i got them last year for their anniversary. Thus this year im going to try to find them another set for their new basement.

Any help on this would be great. Building Homes, do you have any insider contacts :D

[Jaytee]

I personally prefer B&W over Paradigm. Love the B&W with Kevlar cones.

From what I can tell, most audiophiles dont consider Paradigm or B&W brands audiophile quality. (Aside from maybe the B&W Matrix and Silver Signature series which are no longer made). That said, Im no audiophile and I most of the ones I met are snobs with too much money.

I think Paradigm offers very good value for the money, but it still isnt exactly cheap.

[BuildingHomes]

Ceiling speakers for $150 will just be adequate enough. You will not get a high quality speaker for that price.

I'll send you a PM with what I have available.

[Jay1234]

From what I can tell, most audiophiles dont consider Paradigm or B&W brands audiophile quality. (Aside from maybe the B&W Matrix and Silver Signature series which are no longer made). That said, Im no audiophile and I most of the ones I met are snobs with too much money.

I think Paradigm offers very good value for the money, but it still isnt exactly cheap.

If you are saying you are no Audiophile, why are you saying that B&W are not true audiophile speakers?

B&W speakers are really true audiophile speakers. You are trying to tell me that B&W 6 series, 7 series and 8 series are not true audiophile speakers? Just a set of fronts + sub for 6 series are going to run you close to $3k. These are not cheap products.

B&W 6 Series have won some Awards: http://bwmedia.keycast.com/download/Libraries/3/683HI-FIChoice_l8_w0_h0.pdf

As have the 7 Series: http://bwmedia.keycast.com/download/Libraries/3/704-Hi-FiChoiceBB_l2_w0_h0.pdf

Of course no audiophile is going to give any inwall speaker the time of day, they just are not as good.

Jay

[loudsubz]

the audiophile thing is a joke. If it sounds good to you thats all that matters. For the most part they coulnd't tell the difference between a 1k speaker and a 10k speaker.

[iamdman]

Sorry to revive this old thread but i am also looking for ceiling speakers for my sisters new basement.

They are going to be used for the surround L/R. They will have 2 floor mains, a center and a sub. However due to the design of the basement inwall or floor speakers will not work for them on the surround aspect.

I will be buying the speakers, but i dont really want to kill my bank account for them. Is there any people selling speakers that are ceiling mountable (in the ceiling) for around 150 for the pair? Used is an option as long as they sound half decent.

I got them 14g wire to run already and the run is only 30 ft or so.

I am in the GTA so a local dealer would be preferred, again as long as they sound half decent.

They are not big sound people, so they do not have to be crazy or anything, since right now they are using a denon 5.1 HT set i got them last year for their anniversary. Thus this year im going to try to find them another set for their new basement.

Any help on this would be great. Building Homes, do you have any insider contacts :D


Check out monoprice for in wall/ceiling speakers and 12-16 AWG speaker wire, you won't beat their price or bang for the buck on the speaker wire.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837

[dandiggler]

the site says they are high end speakers but dosent mention the makers name.

Can i trust them???

[mlc2000]

listen to speakers before you buy them.

I recently went to a stereo shop to buy ceiling speakers, I bought a pair of Paradigm CS-80r's. I could've bought the CS-50r's for $100 less, but they didnt sound as good.

[batcave]

Paradigm (Canadian speaker manufacturer) makes a good selection of in wall speakers. Some are quite expensive while others are a little more affordable. As in most cases, you get what you pay for. If you're not an audiophile I'd likely not go with the Paradigms as there are certainly cheaper brands on the market.
I like Paradigm speakers; I've got them throughout my home. I've got three pairs of them + a centre channel speaker.

My first pair were purchased in 1982 and are still in use today and sound just as good as the day I bought them!

I've got Paradigm in-wall speakers and the related speakers for my home theatre which were purchased about 10 years ago.

I can't recall the prices, but they will last a very long time!

The other brand that I looked at was PSB, but I didn't like them as much. I think it's personal preference.

[Tacoma]

From what I can tell, most audiophiles dont consider Paradigm or B&W brands audiophile quality. (Aside from maybe the B&W Matrix and Silver Signature series which are no longer made). That said, Im no audiophile and I most of the ones I met are snobs with too much money.

I think Paradigm offers very good value for the money, but it still isnt exactly cheap.

Sorry Jaytee, I have to agree with Jay1234 in disputing your claim that B&W is not "audiophile quality". Professional reviews of Bowers & Wilkins speakers show that they are considered one of the best for accuracy, precison and clarity and their high end models are renowned as one of the best high fidelity speakers in the world with prices to match.

Paradigm, on the other hand, is a good brand for everyday home theatre but not in the same league as B&W by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jaytee]

I never said I didn't think B&W are audiophile quality speakers, I said I get that impression from the things I read. Dont get me wrong, I like B&W speakers and I was extremely close to purchasing a pair of 601s as my friend has them and they sound great. They are the best selling speakers in the world.
That said when I started to look to buy a pair of 601 speakers and I talked to a number of "audiophiles" and many of them were quick to dismiss B&W. I think many will say they sell a lot of speakers now based on their name and reputation built on their Matrix line of speakers which they dont make anymore and now a day there are a lot of better options. I was at Bracks which sell B&W and DynAudio and the sales guy said truthfully generally the DynAudio were much better speakers but a lot of customers come in and just want that B&W name when buying a speaker. It was there that I found the DynAudio were much fuller sounding then the B&W 601s or the 704s when playing them side by side. It was then that I realized that I wasnt comparing the 601s to very much other then old pair of Cerwin Vegas I had at the time. It was then that I started auditioning a whole bunch of other brands: ProAcs, Totem, Martin Logans, JM Labs, etc. I ended up with a pair of Reference 3A Dulcets.
Im not dissing the B&W brand. If you listen to classical or jazz, I think B&Ws are fantastic. I dont think they are a well rounded speaker and there are better options if you listen to a lot of bass heavy music like classic rock, electronica or trip hop, etc.




Sorry Jaytee, I have to agree with Jay1234 in disputing your claim that B&W is not "audiophile quality". Professional reviews of Bowers & Wilkins speakers show that they are considered one of the best for accuracy, precison and clarity and their high end models are renowned as one of the best high fidelity speakers in the world with prices to match.

Paradigm, on the other hand, is a good brand for everyday home theatre but not in the same league as B&W by any stretch of the imagination.