ATI Radeon HD3800 series, now available. 256MB HD3850 $190, 512MB HD3870 $240 @ NCIX

[S_G]

http://www.ncix.com/go/?radeonhd3800

Yup, it's here. Read SKYMTL's review of the 3870 at HardwareCanucks as well, seems that this thing overclocks nicely on the memory. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/3270-his-radeon-hd3870-review-crossfire-performance-preview.html#post26213

Stock is supposed to be extremely limited for this week, but more should be coming in on Friday and next week. The few people who managed to order theirs earlier today are supposedly getting them shipped out already.

If you plan on gaming with higher resolutions or with AA/AF, stay away from the 3850. 256MB is not nearly enough to cope with the demand of anti-aliasing at higher resolutions. It will crash and burn.


HD 3870 series:
Diamond Viper Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out VIVO Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26983 $239.99

HIS Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256BIT GDDR4 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26985 $239.99

Visiontek Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out VIVO Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27074 $239.99

HD 3850 series:
Diamond Viper Radeon HD 3850 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out VIVO Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26984 $189.99

HIS Radeon HD 3850 256MB 256BIT GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26986 $189.99

Visiontek Radeon HD 3850 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HCDP HDMI HDTV Out VIVO Video Card
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27075 $189.99


How does it perform compared to the 8800GT? Not as well. If you clock up the memory, you'll get 8800GT performance, though an 8800GT can be overclocked even higher. Basically, it all comes down to a few factors. Maybe you want to run these in CrossFire, maybe you want a quieter/cooler/more energy efficient video card than the 8800GT, maybe you want a card NOW without having to wait forever, or pay much higher prices than MSRP.

If you do want absolute performance, though, this is not for you. The 8800GT, GTX, Ultra and GTS-112sp cards all perform better than this, though at a price.

(Mods, edit the links to your heart's content.)

Me? I'm sticking to my X1900XTX for now.

[ali123]

Why are stocks limited? ATI reported that they shipped alot

[ASharp]

Kind of tempted. I've been waiting for the last couple of days for these to pop up but, I'm kind of disappointed at the pricing. I mean, it's cheaper than an 8800GT is now, not to mention it's in stock but, I was kind of expecting something more to the tune of $220 or so. Performance on the card is good but, I was hoping for more or at least cheaper. Looks like I'll be waiting a bit for the 8800GT prices to fall before I get a video card.

[S_G]

Why are stocks limited? ATI reported that they shipped alot

They shipped a lot, but they haven't been received yet. NCIX is expecting them in on Friday.

[Loomy]

Re: the price

It will fall once the initial demand falls, just like the 8800GT price will.

The new 2900GT, which is a bit worse than the 2900PRO, which is a bit worse than the 3870, which in some things is a bit worse than the 8800GT, is already $165 at ncix: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26844&promoid=1008

That is a new sale with only 15 in stock, but the price is just about what it should be, and is an indication of the future of the other cards too.

[Spare-Flair]

$189 CDN...

It's $179 US MSRP!!!

[nite4evr]

nice, now if somebody will throw some review and benchmarks out. :)

[npham]

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151

The article basically says this video card is about 85-90 percent of the performance of an 8800GT but is cheaper and supposed to be available in large numbers.

If they can sustain a better price point than the 8800GT, it will be a nice card for AMD.

[nite4evr]

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151

The article basically says this video card is about 85-90 percent of the performance of an 8800GT but is cheaper and supposed to be available in large numbers.

If they can sustain a better price point than the 8800GT, it will be a nice card for AMD.

Thanks for the review. So in the end 8800 still wins the fight if they are willling to lower their prices.

[Ren]

A price war with the upcoming 8800GT 256mb would be nice.

[Nutchos]

A price war with the upcoming 8800GT 256mb would be nice.

The 256mb version is what I'm waiting on to finally decide which card I'm going to get for my new build. I think i read on theinquirer that atleast one company is releasing one this friday to coincide with the 3800 series release at a 150GBP price point.

What this translates to in dollars and the performance of that card remains to be seen.

[MrDisco]

looks like a decent mid-range card, but what happens when the GT comes down in price? The only two things imo which 3870 edges out the GT is power consumption and HD playback.

[jiffylube1024]

looks like a decent mid-range card, but what happens when the GT comes down in price? The only two things imo which 3870 edges out the GT is power consumption and HD playback.

Probably a price cut of their own by AMD to follow. With the 3xxx series running on a 55nm process (vs 65nm for the 8800GT), as well as a 256-bit bus (down from the beefy/expensive 512-bit bus used on the 2900XT), they can keep prices very competitive.

And AMD will need to; the 8800GT is clearly the better, faster card. Unfortunately, availability of the 8800GT is the problem, so whichever company can maintain a supply of stock to stores will get some good business ;) .

[dj6518]

Of the 3 cards,which brand name would you guys choose,i am not sure about any of them.

[Cisco KId]

Of the 3 cards,which brand name would you guys choose,i am not sure about any of them.

HIS would be my choice but imho wait and just get an 8800GT, it is just a better card if you want a gaming card.

How does it perform compared to the 8800GT? Not as well. If you clock up the memory, you'll get 8800GT performance, though an 8800GT can be overclocked even higher. Basically, it all comes down to a few factors. Maybe you want to run these in CrossFire, maybe you want a quieter/cooler/more energy efficient video card than the 8800GT, maybe you want a card NOW without having to wait forever, or pay much higher prices than MSRP.

If you do want absolute performance, though, this is not for you. The 8800GT, GTX, Ultra and GTS-112sp cards all perform better than this, though at a price.

What i said all along, the 8800GT is better,for 3850 @ $240 and with FS selling the XFX Alpha Dog 8800GT at $299 in stock right now with the price protection of 30 days and double lifetime warranty offer I say spend the extra or wait for GT prices to come down or stock to become more plentiful. If you look hard enough you can find them in stock at $279

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10096936&catid=10524&logon=&langid=EN&MSCSProfile=3C79F0C7EA3162B2B9AD68C2316B6FA1859EF9 C534F1C656E896226B352FC024F52293D663BA8B1DE917669C D42635EFCA4CFB94262A7FC74136299C39334F34E93B37A862 34665190350CA62D48F8CA392C696978E0F5AA1280DEB79FC7 EAEC407509CB1AAE464441E25CF9D3BA6DFFF903084BFCA961 8E

Or just wait for , I am sure it will be $259 again which is more the normal price, at the diff of $20 the 8800GT is a no brainer. they will get more eventually and I am sure it will sell again at the sale price of $259 or less
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10095590&logon=&langid=EN&MSCSProfile=3C79F0C7EA3162B2B9AD68C2316B6FA1859EF9 C534F1C656E896226B352FC024F52293D663BA8B1DE917669C D42635EFCA4CFB94262A7FC74136299C39334F34E93B37A862 34665190350CA62D48F8CA392C696978E0F5AA1280DEB79FC7 EAEC407509CB1AAE464441E25CF9D3BA6DFFD48BF118AD64EE 6B655A13ACD9ECFC513A7D01E816E6B8E968883BEDA7821F1C 876D252B9B44272677CAD21615DEB59DD281760B7EBC1FA7E2 9E915CA19549D1FFB34E9D17F2FC5F3096BDAB2FDD30082405 B1B38B5DBB6C


last expect stock issues for the ATI cards just like the 8800GT, when you check stock 1-3 week delay extremeley allocated, lol

[S_G]

HIS would be my choice but imho wait and just get an 8800GT, it is just a better card if you want a gaming card.
They all suck, but HIS is the lesser of the evils.



What i said all along, the 8800GT is better,for 3850 @ $240 and with FS selling the XFX Alpha Dog 8800GT at $299 in stock right now with the price protection of 30 days and double lifetime warranty offer I say spend the extra or wait for GT prices to come down or stock to become more plentiful. If you look hard enough you can find them in stock at $279
If you can get the 8800GT for $260, it is worth it. At $280 and $300, you start to lose the benefit (not to mention you pay GST+PST at FS, but just GST at DC/NCIX if you're out of BC).

last expect stock issues for the ATI cards just like the 8800GT, when you check stock 1-3 week delay extremeley allocated, lol
They are actually shipping 250,000 worldwide (versus some 30,000 for the 8800GT). NCIX expects to receive stock every few days, so all is well. AMD can afford to wage a price war with NVIDIA on this one, considering their stock.

[AndrewRFD]

Nice informative post S_G. Will post it soon, thanks for the deal.

[Cisco KId]

They all suck, but HIS is the lesser of the evils.




If you can get the 8800GT for $260, it is worth it. At $280 and $300, you start to lose the benefit (not to mention you pay GST+PST at FS, but just GST at DC/NCIX if you're out of BC).


They are actually shipping 250,000 worldwide (versus some 30,000 for the 8800GT). NCIX expects to receive stock every few days, so all is well. AMD can afford to wage a price war with NVIDIA on this one, considering their stock.

Do you believe AMD can afford to go into a price war with NV?

I agree that at $299 the GT is costly at FS but as I mentioned you have price protection and ability to use GC for some who have with FS and one can always just return it prior if no decrease in price. By then you will probably be able to buy a GT at the stated $260-$279

Yes there are both taxes for those that can not wait but in general DC has a 9.99 shipping charge unless over $300 and the taxes if bought local would be very close overall so it does average out unless they have a free shipping or you need some other gear to get you over $300

I am not against the ATI card at all, I just feel the Gt is a better buy for gaming

[ZenOps]

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26984&vpn=3850PE3256SB&manufacture=Nci%20Internal%20Use%20Only

$179.99 for the 3850. Hot price. For those who want to save a hundred or so this one will kick butt on the 8600 line, which is now basically obsolete.

This is probably the one that will sell fastest IMO.

[AndrewRFD]

Do you believe AMD can afford to go into a price war with NV?

Personally, I think the question is whether or not AMD/ATI can afford not to go into a price war with Nvidia. Core 2 Duo and the Nvidia 8000 series have put a serious beatdown on AMD/ATI for more than a year now. They badly need some well positioned products to regain market share.

[bokep]

Do you believe AMD can afford to go into a price war with NV?

I agree that at $299 the GT is costly at FS but as I mentioned you have price protection and ability to use GC for some who have with FS and one can always just return it prior if no decrease in price. By then you will probably be able to buy a GT at the stated $260-$279

Yes there are both taxes for those that can not wait but in general DC has a 9.99 shipping charge unless over $300 and the taxes if bought local would be very close overall so it does average out unless they have a free shipping or you need some other gear to get you over $300

I am not against the ATI card at all, I just feel the Gt is a better buy for gaming
no one is questioning 8800gt's superiority
realistically, by the time the GT price drops, the price for 3870 would have dropped as well so your argument is moot. in the end if you're buying the hd3870 over the 8800gt you get less performace for less money, but the price/performance ratio is just about equal to the gt.

[Kwirky]

This isn't right... why is the HD3870 $240 in Canada and $220 in the US?

[ali123]

This isn't right... why is the HD3870 $240 in Canada and $220 in the US?

Lol true and Ati is canadian...

[nite4evr]

This isn't right... why is the HD3870 $240 in Canada and $220 in the US?

Because we're Canadians, we never get the good things including the prices.

[Ninjai]

it was canadian but now american owned cause of amd :P

[etherboy]

Must buy new video card.

Crysis owns my 7950 :(

[jerryhussain]

Personally, I think the question is whether or not AMD/ATI can afford not to go into a price war with Nvidia. Core 2 Duo and the Nvidia 8000 series have put a serious beatdown on AMD/ATI for more than a year now. They badly need some well positioned products to regain market share.
The real question is whether Nvidia is willing to go into a price war with AMD. :cheesygri The HD3870 gives about 85% performance of the 8800GT while being over 70% smaller. This is why AMD is under-cutting them right from the get-go. If Nvidia drops their prices, its much easier for AMD to play the pricing game.

Nvidia struck first like they always like, pulling the launch of 8800GT up by 2 weeks but it backfired on them as noted by todays reviews.

[Scott Davey]

Crysis owns everything (reasonably priced) at the moment... even these new cards.

The simple answer of which card to buy (8800GT or 3870) is simple... the ATI card has about ~85% of the performance so if you can get it for ~85% of the price (or conversely the 8800GT for ~15% more) then you aren't making a bad decision either way!

Both cards are phenomenal value.

[yun555]

ALL GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

HD3850 and HD3870 are just min-range video card between HD2600XT and HD2900XT.

They use new chip - RV670 and 55nm technology, also support DirectX 10.1 (Windows Vista sp1), PCI Express2.0 .... BUT only 256bit (2900XT 512bit)

SO HOW could u compare with 8800GT? That's 2900XT's job.

From new test report, I saw HD3870 is very close to 2900XT at most games and HD3850 is much better than 2600XT.

HD3850 and 3870 would be good choice if 3850 is down to $100. so why not go the states this XMAS :D

(BLAME RCMP who killed new polish immigrant in VANCOUVER Airport >:( )

[k4zz4m]

i would say to buy the ati card just because it comes with valve's black box and because the card itself is DX 10.1 . Not to mention the card is cheaper than 8800GT. So it works out.

[sheepdogexpress]

Most of the cards people are buying for the 8800gt(xfx,evga, bfg) have a lifetime warranty.

Most of which replace the card with the most current generation at the same price point. Which means if your card breaks down 2 years later its going to be replaced with the 10800gt.

Thats a huge bonus. The HIS has a lowsy one year warranty. So when the prices fall to their retails, the 8800gt with 15 percent extra performance and lifetime warranty are really worth it for 20 dollars.

My advice is wait for price to fall to suggested retail price, lifetime warranty is really important. The whole energy thing is really debatable at this point. If you look at the anandtech review, the 3870 uses more energy than the 8800gt.

[BestOffer]

$189 CDN...

It's $179 US MSRP!!!

well MSRP means resellers has to sell it for this price at the min., so anything over $179 US is correct, what is your question?

[BestOffer]

Most of the cards people are buying for the 8800gt(xfx,evga, bfg) have a lifetime warranty.

Most of which replace the card with the most current generation at the same price point. Which means if your card breaks down 2 years later its going to be replaced with the 10800gt.

Thats a huge bonus. The HIS has a lowsy one year warranty. So when the prices fall to their retails, the 8800gt with 15 percent extra performance and lifetime warranty are really worth it for 20 dollars.

My advice is wait for price to fall to suggested retail price, lifetime warranty is really important. The whole energy thing is really debatable at this point. If you look at the anandtech review, the 3870 uses more energy than the 8800gt.

HIS has two year warranty...not one-year...and for the lifetime warranty, is actually "limited lifetime warranty" and any normal wear & tear of the v/c is not covered...only anything related to the defective workmanship

[S_G]

The whole energy thing is really debatable at this point. If you look at the anandtech review, the 3870 uses more energy than the 8800gt.

Just a few watts more (within a margin of error) AT LOAD. At idle, it kills the 8800GT in power consumption. Edit: And as the HWC review shows, the 8800GT is using slightly more power at load. So, like I said, within the margin of error.

I do agree with your lifetime warranty point, though. I was just talking about it in the Galaxy 8800GT thread.

[ASharp]

ALL GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

HD3850 and HD3870 are just min-range video card between HD2600XT and HD2900XT.

They use new chip - RV670 and 55nm technology, also support DirectX 10.1 (Windows Vista sp1), PCI Express2.0 .... BUT only 256bit (2900XT 512bit)

SO HOW could u compare with 8800GT? That's 2900XT's job.

From new test report, I saw HD3870 is very close to 2900XT at most games and HD3850 is much better than 2600XT.

HD3850 and 3870 would be good choice if 3850 is down to $100. so why not go the states this XMAS :D

You're a rather misinformed one, aren't you? The RV670 is just a die shrink of the R600. The HD 3870 is suppose to be a successor to the 2900XT. How can you compare the 2900XT to the 8800GT when the former costs $100 more? The HD 3870 performs just as well if not better than the 2900XT not to mention almost half the price. Why wouldn't the comparison be made?

Of course the HD 3850 would be a good choice at $100...it can take down the 8600GTS without breaking a sweat and those cards already cost well over $150...if you can get a card (HD 3850) that outperforms that for almost half the price, of course it would be a good buy. :| Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. Why would you make a product that performs well and sell it for a significantly reduced price when you can put a higher price tag on it. That's like taking an 8800 GTX and giving it a $250 price tag. That would be a great buy but, did it ever occur to you why they don't do it?

[yun555]

Buddy, u joking?

maximum condition: 8800GT (60nm) uses 110 watts, HD3870 (55nm) uses 105w, 3850 only 95w.

LIFETIME warranty is another joke! just wondering how many people would use video card more than 3 years.

SO suggent u buy computer stuff with GLOD or PLATINUM credit card next time. comes with double warranty!


Most of the cards people are buying for the 8800gt(xfx,evga, bfg) have a lifetime warranty.

Most of which replace the card with the most current generation at the same price point. Which means if your card breaks down 2 years later its going to be replaced with the 10800gt.

Thats a huge bonus. The HIS has a lowsy one year warranty. So when the prices fall to their retails, the 8800gt with 15 percent extra performance and lifetime warranty are really worth it for 20 dollars.

My advice is wait for price to fall to suggested retail price, lifetime warranty is really important. The whole energy thing is really debatable at this point. If you look at the anandtech review, the 3870 uses more energy than the 8800gt.

[BestOffer]

LIFETIME warranty is another joke! just wondering how many people would use video card more than 3 years.

i do i am not a gamer, mostly use production design software and i am still using radeon 9250 128mb...still runs great...i never had problems dying on me yet... :D

[S_G]

Buddy, u joking?

8800GT (60nm) uses 110 watts, HD3870 (55nm) uses 105w, 3850 only 95w.

LIFETIME warranty is another joke! just wondering how many people would use video card more than 3 years.

SO suggent u buy computer stuff with GLOD or PLATINUM credit card next time. comes with double warranty!


5 watts is within a margin of error, people shouldn't be talking about that. The idle difference is substantial, though.
XFX offers double lifetime, so you can sell the card once with warranty coverage for the buyer. Many people buy cards and use them for an extended period of time. 3 years -- probably not any gamers, but longer than 1 year is perfectly understandable.
EVGA, XFX and BFG are also good companies with highly reputed customer support in North America.

[bluecheck15]

(raises hand)

I still use the Radeon 9700. It played Doom 3 and Far Cry. Still running great! Even ran F.E.A.R. on medium settings.

[ZenOps]

the 8800GT uses 110 watts only as a theoretical maximum, with all transistors firing.

In reality it never hits that. The reason that wattage is that high is because Nvidia actually bothered to put in a really decent HD/H.264 decoder inside the new GT (which noone talks about) If you had dual screens, one playing Crysis, and the other playing back a HD-video, then you might be getting close to the maximum heat output of a videochip.

On average according to most websites, the 3870 consumes more power when playing 3D games compared to a 8800GT, and less when idle.

Also what noone seems to mention is that the new Radeon 38xx can do double floating point precision math (or alternately double precision 3D precision) at pretty well exactly double the FPS cost.

Anyone using 3D modelling for work (arguably not that many people) will probably find the double point precision of some use. Graphics artists will definitely find use for it.

[jerryhussain]

Most of the cards people are buying for the 8800gt(xfx,evga, bfg) have a lifetime warranty.

Most of which replace the card with the most current generation at the same price point. Which means if your card breaks down 2 years later its going to be replaced with the 10800gt.

Thats a huge bonus. The HIS has a lowsy one year warranty. So when the prices fall to their retails, the 8800gt with 15 percent extra performance and lifetime warranty are really worth it for 20 dollars.

My advice is wait for price to fall to suggested retail price, lifetime warranty is really important. The whole energy thing is really debatable at this point. If you look at the anandtech review, the 3870 uses more energy than the 8800gt.
Under load I've seen it reach 90C and beyond. So yeah you do really need the lifetime warranty on the 8800GT. :lol:

As for the power consumption argument:

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-3800/power-load.gif

[Loomy]

well MSRP means resellers has to sell it for this price at the min., so anything over $179 US is correct, what is your question?

Where do you live that the recommended sales price is the legally mandated minimum sales price?

The recommended sales price is just what it sounds like, which is nothing more than a recommendation.

[yun555]

GUY, give u some information:

1. R600 next generation is RV700 (maybe HD3900xt) not RV670. so HD 3870 is NOT to be a successor to the 2900XT.

2. LOTS people think HD2900XT is a failure: overprice but same performance as 8800GT (almost same points of 3DMARK2006, 8800GT is a little better).

3. 3850 and 3870 are used to fill the blank between 2600XT and 2900XT. AMD lost market around $200 for too too long time.

4. "HD 3850 would be down to about $100 soon" is NOT a imagination. As a local canadian, I guess u never know how many video card brands outside of Canada. HERE u have to choose those luxury brands such as ASUS, XFX ... so why not find some friends from Hong Kong, Singpore ... at those area the price is always lowest. My chinese friend just told me HD2900XT is only about c$350 in H.K. (no any tax in H.K.)



You're a rather misinformed one, aren't you? The RV670 is just a die shrink of the R600. The HD 3870 is suppose to be a successor to the 2900XT. How can you compare the 2900XT to the 8800GT when the former costs $100 more? The HD 3870 performs just as well if not better than the 2900XT not to mention almost half the price. Why wouldn't the comparison be made?

Of course the HD 3850 would be a good choice at $100...it can take down the 8600GTS without breaking a sweat and those cards already cost well over $150...if you can get a card (HD 3850) that outperforms that for almost half the price, of course it would be a good buy. :| Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. Why would you make a product that performs well and sell it for a significantly reduced price when you can put a higher price tag on it. That's like taking an 8800 GTX and giving it a $250 price tag. That would be a great buy but, did it ever occur to you why they don't do it?

[yun555]

come on....

u are NOT game fan. :cheesygri

so How u would buy 8800 series, 2900 series, 3850, 3870, 3900 ...! These cards are only for game fans!

Just wondering these DOOM3 guys are real game fans? :D


i do i am not a gamer, mostly use production design software and i am still using radeon 9250 128mb...still runs great...i never had problems dying on me yet... :D

[Brandon]

GUY, give u some information:

1. R600 next generation is RV700 (maybe HD3900xt) not RV670. so HD 3870 is NOT to be a successor to the 2900XT.

2. LOTS people think HD2900XT is a failure: overprice but same performance as 8800GT (almost same points of 3DMARK2006, 8800GT is a little better).

3. 3850 and 3870 are used to fill the blank between 2600XT and 2900XT. AMD lost market around $200 for too too long time.

4. "HD 3850 would be down to about $100 soon" is NOT a imagination. As a local canadian, I guess u never know how many video card brands outside of Canada. HERE u have to choose those luxury brands such as ASUS, XFX ... so why not find some friends from Hong Kong, Singpore ... at those area the price is always lowest. My chinese friend just told me HD2900XT is only about c$350 in H.K. (no any tax in H.K.)

1. The 3870 makes the 2900 extinct... The 2900XT is slower, consumes more power, and is much more expensive.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=7
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=482&type=expert&pid=22

2. Depending how you look at it, the 2900XT was a failure in that performance wise on average was the same as a cheaper nVidia based product. If the 2900XT came earlier and was cheaper, it would have had much more success.

3. The 3850 'replaces' the 2600XT 512MB as it costs the same, and it's much faster. And the 3870 'replaces' the 2900XT as it costs much less, and it's a little faster. These aren't really next generation products, but the 3800 series is a step between generations (kind of like the 8800GT for nVidia, it's faster and cheaper than the GTS, so the GTS is essentially obsolete). It uses a new manufacturing process which makes it cheaper (can clock faster, cheaper cost = new product).

4. The 2900XT will never be the same price or cheaper than the 3870 unless you're talking about stores selling the 2900XT at cost or at clearance price to get rid of inventory. :P

[Tjalfe]

anyone else notice that there are no build by ATI ( uhm, AMD) cards for this new chip?

[yun555]

Just post some data:

3DMark06
http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pconline/0711/14/1154025_071114_RV670MARK_3Dmark06_thumb.jpg

Lost Planet:Extreme Condition
http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pconline/0711/14/1154025_071114_RV670MARK_LPsnow_thumb.jpg
http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pconline/0711/14/1154025_071114_RV670MARK_LPcave_thumb.jpg

otherwise,
2900XT > HD3870: Company Of Heroes, Unreal Tournament 3, Crysis

HD3870 > 2900XT: Call Of Juarez, BioShock, Need for Speed 11,

[Moosemilk]

[QUOTE=yun555;5935583]Just post some data:

3DMark06
http://img3.pconline.com.cn/pconline/0711/14/1154025_071114_RV670MARK_3Dmark06_thumb.jpg

I can't vouch for how good the reviews are you quoted from pconline.com.cn, partly because I can't read Chinese.

As tests from some of the more credible comparison/review sites out there have shown so far ( www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34861/118/1/1/ , www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/16/ , www.hothardware.com/articles/ATI_Radeon_HD_3870_and_3850_55nm_RV670/?page=12 ), the differences in gaming performance among the Nvidia 8800GT 512 MB card and AMD ATI's 2900XT 512MB and 3870 512MB cards are negligible enough, with only a slight lead given to the 8800 GT followed by the 3870 and the 2900XT, to warrant other considerations like SLI/Crossfire performance (Two 3850's anyone?) HD video performance, physical size, power consumption, and even how noisy they are.

The price/performance ratio and availability will be the deciding factors for most gamers looking to upgrade to a DirectX 10 card. And for now, AMD ATI's 3850 and 3870 seem like the best deal out there.

MM

[Badman]

its a decent card for the price. right now it does seem like good money but when the 8800GT falls back to retail levels then it aint.

However i do like how quiet it is and its also good for a htpc because it does have hdmi.

AMD did go in the right direction with this, but as the 8800GT price goes down this needs to as well.

[sheepdogexpress]

Under load I've seen it reach 90C and beyond. So yeah you do really need the lifetime warranty on the 8800GT. :lol:

As for the power consumption argument:

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-3800/power-load.gif

Thats why I said it was debatable at this point.

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/AMD_Radeon_HD3850_and_HD3870_-_AMD%27s_salvation%3F/5392-15.html

Here is another link that say the opposite.

Here the 8800gt beats it in idle and load.

[chrispycrunch]

If a 15% performance lead mattered to me, I would get an 8800GT. If I could even get one in the next two weeks, that would be a non-issue. We all just have to wait 2-3 weeks for the 256mb version to come out. IT will be interesting to see if it can perform well at lower AND higher resolutions.

Only ATi has inventory right now, so i have a bias for ATi right now.

Don't forget that HD3870/HD3850 also has 5.1 audio, decoding for HDMI (I think), and is cooler/quieter.

Not sure how loud the GT's are but they do get noisy if overclocked.

The 2900XT is finished. I'd be surprised if anyone bought them today!

[Jman]

Could NCIX be anymore vague?

"in-stock"
"extremely allocated 1-3 weeks wait"
"out of stock"
"available but we have no stock"

Do they have the damn cards or not?

[Emancipated]

Are these top of the line from ATI? I'm asking because if that's true, then the price belies that. Usually top of the line cards debut at around $600-800.

[ali123]

Could NCIX be anymore vague?

"in-stock"
"extremely allocated 1-3 weeks wait"
"out of stock"
"available but we have no stock"

Do they have the damn cards or not?

it's out of stock but they're receiving more

[Micro204]

it's out of stock but they're receiving more

i order the 3870 this morning around 8.30 am winnipeg time and it was shipped out this afternoon. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The 3870 I order is the HIS one.

i think they do have limited stock this morning, first come first serves

[ASharp]

Are these top of the line from ATI? I'm asking because if that's true, then the price belies that. Usually top of the line cards debut at around $600-800.

I would hardly call it "top of the line" but yeah, the HD 3870 sadly is the best that ATI has to offer.

[Loomy]

Are these top of the line from ATI? I'm asking because if that's true, then the price belies that. Usually top of the line cards debut at around $600-800.

Top of the line cards that debuted at that price weren't at that price because they were top of the line. They were that price because they were high tech and new and expensive to make and the market supported that price.

The 3870 price fits because these cards perform basically the same as the last generation, only now they cost less to make.

Cheap high-end or medium-range with no high-end present... whatever you call these cards, they are very fast for nice prices.

ATI probably calls the 3870 mid-range because they call the dual chip 3870 high-end. It just isn't out yet.

[bokep]

Are these top of the line from ATI? I'm asking because if that's true, then the price belies that. Usually top of the line cards debut at around $600-800.

the market completely changes when a card like the 8800gt came out.
same thing happened a few years ago with the 9800pro.
now even nvidia's high-end cards are twice the price of the 8800gt but barely better.

all in all i think stiffer competition in the $100-$300 range is better for most consumers. when both companies were launching high-end cards in the $400+ range, most people didn't give a **** about them until their prices came down.

[BestOffer]

Where do you live that the recommended sales price is the legally mandated minimum sales price?

The recommended sales price is just what it sounds like, which is nothing more than a recommendation.

and besides, MSRP in USD, so CAD is a little higher...don't remember now that the xchnage rate is only 1.02

[S_G]

New shipments of the Diamond cards are supposed to come in today, with more Visiontek later this week. Just a heads up for those of you who missed out earlier.

[Jman]

Lots of stores have stock of ATI - Infonec, CC, etc.

What's really annoying is that American places like Fry's have better prices, $209 after $20 rebate. Like WTF, our money is worth more and they still beat us by 30 bucks?

[ZenOps]

Could NCIX be anymore vague?

"in-stock"
"extremely allocated 1-3 weeks wait"
"out of stock"
"available but we have no stock"

Do they have the damn cards or not?


"Yes, we have no bananas today"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes,_We_Have_No_Bananas

[Haz]

Newegg has the HD 3850 for $179.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000048&Description=3850&name=Video+Cards) so NCIX's $179.99 - $189.99 is pretty much the going rate.

As for the $219 (or lower) HD 3870 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000048&Description=3870&name=Video+Cards), all I can say supply and demand.

[bluecheck15]

This is Canada. Sadly, to live in Canada, you will pay higher taxes and higher costs. This has never changed.

[Haz]

Forgot about NCIX's sister sites:

tdDirect - HD 3850
Diamond Viper Radeon HD 3850 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDMI HDTV Out VIVO Video Card @ $177.85 (http://www.tddirect.ca/products/123257/3850PE3256SB/Diamond/) Back ordered.

tdDirect - HD 3870
Diamond Viper Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDMI HDTV Out Video Card @ $223.34 (http://www.tddirect.ca/products/125580/3870PE4512SB/Diamond/) Back ordered.
HIS Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256BIT GDDR4 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDMI HDTV Out Video Card @ $225.41 (http://www.tddirect.ca/products/123258/H387F512/HIS/) Back ordered.

DirectCanada - HD 3850
HIS Radeon HD 3850 256MB 256BIT GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I Hcdp HDMI HDTV Out Video Card @ $179.55 (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15550BD0079&vpn=H385F256&manufacture=HIS) (14 left)
Diamond Viper Radeon HD 3850 256MB GDDR3 PCI-E Dual DVI-I HDCP HDMI HDTV Out Video Card @ $178.88 (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15550BD0474&vpn=3850PE3256SB&manufacture=DIAMOND) (17 left)

[Scott Davey]

Thanks Haz!

Just scooped a Viper 3850.

[ASharp]

Yeah, I personally ordered an HIS 3850 today. I just found it really hard to justify the extra $60 for the 3870.

[Haz]

Yeah, I personally ordered an HIS 3850 today. I just found it really hard to justify the extra $60 for the 3870.I'm waiting on a HD 3850 512MB before I bite. I figure if it's only something like $10-20 more, I might just get the HD 3850 512MB.

[Scott Davey]

This card just seems like such a deal... 3850 for $178??

It's near 2900xt speed... it's damn-near silent... and it has a universal video decoder (that the 2900xt lacks.)

Including overnight shipping and taxes it was... $200.20.
You can barely get an 8600GTS for that.

[xxgg]

3850 should be a great card for HomeThreatre PC

[Jman]

The lameass price-gouger award of the year goes to, Tiger Direct!

ATI 3850 256mb
$244/256
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=3850&image1.x=0&image1.y=0


ATI 3870
$305
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3482895&sku=V261-3870


Anywho, is there any store in Toronto with stock of 3870's? This is starting to look like 8800GT all over again.

[strangelove9]

FYI, I ordered my 3850 Diamond Viper on Sunday evening - it arrived yesterday (Wednesday)... The card costs $178.xx, it comes to exactly $200 after taxes and shipping.

The fact is, the so-called "17 stock" posted on the DirectCanada website is BOGUS!!!

It's been showing that number before I ordered, and it's remained unchanged since!

It can only be assumed that they are too lazy or busy to take care of the website. But I strongly advise you to dismiss the info regarding available stock - THEY WILL HAVE IT!

Oh, and here's a thread concerning brand reliability (Diamond vs. HIS) :
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2120134&viewresults=y

[Jman]

I want a 3870 though :(

[zoob]

Ordered an HD3850 on Monday from DirectCanada and received it yesterday.
Haven't had time to play with it yet... :|

[Haz]

I'm interested in hearing if anyone has had any experience with Visiontek's Limited Lifetime Warranty. (http://visiontek.com/teksupport/warranty/limited_warranty.html)

[tibor]

If the suggested retail price is currently $180 for the 3850, won't it too drop in price as the supply/demand curve balances (similar to that of the 3870)? I guess the obvious answer is yes, but my question is how much?

Does anyone see this card around $150 by xmas time? IF that were the price, wouldn't be smarter for some of you to get 2 instead of the 8800 GT and take advantage of Crossfire technology?

[ASharp]

If the suggested retail price is currently $180 for the 3850, won't it too drop in price as the supply/demand curve balances (similar to that of the 3870)? I guess the obvious answer is yes, but my question is how much?

Does anyone see this card around $150 by xmas time? IF that were the price, wouldn't be smarter for some of you to get 2 instead of the 8800 GT and take advantage of Crossfire technology?

Well, it's been just over a week since release and you can pick up a 3850 at DirectCanada (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15550BD0474&vpn=3850PE3256SB&manufacture=DIAMOND) for $175. I don't know about $150 but I can see it dropping down to maybe $170 or even lower once the new 8800GT 256MB comes out. $150 though? Can't be certain. DAAMIT seems to like to screw around with pricing a lot so, I wouldn't be surprised.

[wonton1017]

off topic kinda:

will the 8800gt 512mb price drop once the new 8800GTS arrives?

[tibor]

What's the expected price of the 8800 GT 256mb?

[Cisco KId]

off topic kinda:

will the 8800gt 512mb price drop once the new 8800GTS arrives?

personally I doubt it I expect the new gts to be closer to 4 bills but time will tell

[The_Madz]

anyone else wonder why there arn't any "built by ATI" cards available?

they are all made by sapphire, diamond, or HIS
i personally like it when it's branded From ATI myself as i find them a lot easier to deal with if there are any warranty issues

[clicknext]

anyone else wonder why there arn't any "built by ATI" cards available?

they are all made by sapphire, diamond, or HIS
i personally like it when it's branded From ATI myself as i find them a lot easier to deal with if there are any warranty issues
I'm wondering about this too. I heard that ATI doesn't make cards themselves anymore, like NVIDIA? not sure if this is true...

[The_Madz]

I'm wondering about this too. I heard that ATI doesn't make cards themselves anymore, like NVIDIA? not sure if this is true...

I hope this isn't the case, I was willing to pay a bit extra for built by ATI for their support.

in addition, since they are out of Toronto there goes more canadian jobs.. thanks AMD.

[apvm]

$149.49 for the HD3850 by Christmas will be a nice present for myself.

I hope this isn't the case, I was willing to pay a bit extra for built by ATI for their support.

in addition, since they are out of Toronto there goes more canadian jobs.. thanks AMD.

I think the cards were made in Taiwan when they were making them.

[zoob]

Hasn't Sapphire built the BBA cards for a long while now anyway?

[Jman]

What store actually has 3870 cards? 8800gt all over again.

[Jman]

NCIX has the HIS 3870's in stock right now. Got my order in, hopefully no delays. I gave up waiting for CC, Infonec, Premier, etc in Toronto. They've all bumped up their prices too so with no PST, NCIX is as cheap as buying local even with express shipping.

[zoob]

Oh sick. I placed an order including the HIS 3870 this past Tuesday with ground shipping and I just received the package now. FAST :)

Too bad I won't get a chance to install it until tomorrow night.

[apvm]

$149.49 for the HD3850 by Christmas will be a nice present for myself.

Saw 2 Diamond 3850 open box item this pasted Wednesday for $161 while DC OOS and NCIX jacked up the price to $185 for the Visiontek 3850 , so ordered one...order processed but product availablity not check yet, not sure if I get it since they were gone like in 30 minutes.

$161 is close enough, early present for myself if I get it since I don't see it drop much below $160 during Christmas anyway, glad I passed the used X1950 pro for $110 since according to many website the 3850 is a better card than the X1950 pro.

Canada computers has their Asus 3850 at $220 and Sapphire at $212, 1st time my local computer store is cheaper than them...Sapphire 3850 at $202 haha...the demand is out pacing supply at the moment, we should see price drop back to $170 soon...btw if you want a 3850 today, Anitec is having their Sapphire 3850 on sale at $179, 17 left.

Oh sick. I placed an order including the HIS 3870 this past Tuesday with ground shipping and I just received the package now. FAST :)

Too bad I won't get a chance to install it until tomorrow night.

Which shipping company did they use for your order?

anyone else wonder why there arn't any "built by ATI" cards available?

they are all made by sapphire, diamond, or HIS
i personally like it when it's branded From ATI myself as i find them a lot easier to deal with if there are any warranty issues

Saw ATI 2400 and 2600 available at local Staples.

[Jman]

I've been watching NCIX like a hawk and on Wednesday they finally had "in stock" for the HIS 3870. I ordered it immediately and it arrived Friday morning via the express shipping promotion. Final price was $277, about the same as buying it locally for $240+tax and wasting my time driving, not to mention nobody in Toronto even has them. Killer card, at least twice as fast as my 2600xt for crysis.

[zoob]

which shipping company did they use for your order?

Purolator Air

[apvm]

I've been watching NCIX like a hawk and on Wednesday they finally had "in stock" for the HIS 3870. I ordered it immediately and it arrived Friday morning via the express shipping promotion. Final price was $277, about the same as buying it locally for $240+tax and wasting my time driving, not to mention nobody in Toronto even has them. Killer card, at least twice as fast as my 2600xt for crysis.

Lucky you, they just email me to confirm I got the 3850 open box but waiting for shop to transfer in and should send out early next week, but for $184.96 final price, not bad at all.

Purolator Air

Lucky you as well, ground shipping and they sent by air, ordered a 2600XT and they send by ground, no special for me :-(

[zsnow]

we should wait for the new 8800gt 256mb. i heard it's under $200 and even faster than ati 3870 if your res not go higher than 1920*1080

[warpdrive]

I decided to spring for the Asus 3850 because I wanted to play COD4 on my Dell E521. I've been waiting for a good single slot solution. Now, even though I could have probably gotten away with the stock power supply, I decided to upgrade it with a PCPower&Cooling 470W unit to be safe.

The 3850 fits no problem into the Dell E521 case. I had to problem routing the SATA connectors to the two hard drives because the drives were upside down so I had to loop the cables a bit. I also had to use the Molex to Sata connectors that the video card came with to hook up my optical drive

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9609/dsc0074pg0.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0074pg0.jpg)

My Athlon 4200 E521 with Vista, 3GB, runs COD4 very well on 1280x1024 with all things turned on, and the performance profile selected in the driver. And even 1600x1200 is doable but not ideal as it gets a bit choppy. I guess for now, i'm satisified.

[jcoltage]

Does any ATI card companies offer lets say at least 5 years warranty?

[fellows]

Does any ATI card companies offer lets say at least 5 years warranty?

I don't believe so.
I think VisionTek offers Lifetime warranty service, but read the stipulations as they are very specific and unforgiving, unlike nVidia's partners.

[fellows]

Also another important thing to find out is what you can expect in terms of RMA charges when it comes back across the border.

eVga got into a bit of trouble due to their $45 brokerage fee, but soon corrected it.

Unfortunately, even though the card is great ATI's partners fall quite short in the service dept.

[PriceChopper]

futureshop has these in

ATI Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4 PCI-Express Video Card for 229.99$ (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10097185&catid=10524&logon=&langid=EN#)

and it says that it's in stock

[Moosemilk]

futureshop has these in

ATI Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4 PCI-Express Video Card for 229.99$ (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10097185&catid=10524&logon=&langid=EN#)

and it says that it's in stock

Finally the price has come down to something reasonable...

MM

[duckdown]

^---- this seems like a nice price, no? I'm still in need of a damn video card.

[Moosemilk]

^---- this seems like a nice price, no? I'm still in need of a damn video card.

I hear you. I almost bought the BFG 8800GT OC but held off due to the overheating issue.

$229 seems like an OK price for the 3870, though I have a feeling it will drop more significantly after Christmas. Tempting...

MM

[007craft]

wasnt there just a $20 msrp drop on the US price bringing the 3870 down to $200 msrp, or around $170 retail? That would make the card way to overpriced for us @ $230. When this card comes down to $150, i think ill buy it. until then, onboard graphics FTL and no crysis :lol:

[Moosemilk]

wasnt there just a $20 msrp drop on the US price bringing the 3870 down to $200 msrp, or around $170 retail? That would make the card way to overpriced for us @ $230. When this card comes down to $150, i think ill buy it. until then, onboard graphics FTL and no crysis :lol:

Makes sense.

MM

[BrianCheung]

Got my hands on the Sapphire 3850. Loving it :)

[christonian]

does anyone know if i buy this card that it will work with my HP PC or do i need a crossfire motherboard????

or am i fine with just PCI-E 16???

I have a HP A6167C

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10096371&catid=20217

and just looking to put some muscle under the hood for graphics wise

[Gentile]

It will work fine. You only need a Crossfire mobo to run 2 of them.

[Brandon]

I hear you. I almost bought the BFG 8800GT OC but held off due to the overheating issue.

$229 seems like an OK price for the 3870, though I have a feeling it will drop more significantly after Christmas. Tempting...

MM

ATI-branded (support by Diamond) 3870 512MB for $207 at Futureshop:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526809

[christonian]

It will work fine. You only need a Crossfire mobo to run 2 of them.

This is to me im guessing just confirming because I dont want to buy it then not be able to use it lol

Look at last page last post for reference if any others can help

[christonian]

bump on my question

[MrDisco]

does anyone know if i buy this card that it will work with my HP PC or do i need a crossfire motherboard????


if you are adding a single video card you will be fine provided you have a pci-e 16x (maybe even 8x) video slot free and you have the physical space to install it. You also need to consider your power supply and if you have a PCI-e power connector and enough amps to run it.

if you want to buy 2 and go for Crossfire, you need a Crossfire baord and in your case that is a no go as I believe your board uses an nVidia chipset.

easiest way is just to buy it and try it. if it doesn't work return it.

[christonian]

if you are adding a single video card you will be fine provided you have a pci-e 16x (maybe even 8x) video slot free and you have the physical space to install it. You also need to consider your power supply and if you have a PCI-e power connector and enough amps to run it.

if you want to buy 2 and go for Crossfire, you need a Crossfire baord and in your case that is a no go as I believe your board uses an nVidia chipset.

easiest way is just to buy it and try it. if it doesn't work return it.

ok thanks for the info it does come with a PCI-E 16x and im already prepared to buy another power supply if i have too. i have another more powerful power supply in my older PC which i might transfer over if my pc cant take the draw of power from the 3850

and it says on the site the power supply should be around 480 isnt that kind of low for a card this good or is that fine????

also i should be able to play most games max right??????? except Crysis lol

Specs
5200 AMD
3gb Ram 667
3850

[christonian]

bump :arrowu:

[Brandon]

ok thanks for the info it does come with a PCI-E 16x and im already prepared to buy another power supply if i have too. i have another more powerful power supply in my older PC which i might transfer over if my pc cant take the draw of power from the 3850

and it says on the site the power supply should be around 480 isnt that kind of low for a card this good or is that fine????

also i should be able to play most games max right??????? except Crysis lol

Specs
5200 AMD
3gb Ram 667
3850

Play most games max with a 3850? Depends on the game, your resolution and if your definition of MAX = with AA on. If you want AA on, then you're probably limited to 1280x1024 is most cases.

Just search up 3580 reviews and look yourself. Keep in mind that the reviews are usually conducted with test systems having a faster processor than the one you have (and are running in dual channel memory configuration).

[mavrik13]

The PSU from that computer does not even have a PCI-E plug for any graphics card, so a replacement is going to be necessary.

I know, because I have a 3850 in a box sitting right next to the same computer... the PSU that I ordered with the video card is on backorder (which sucks, thanks Direct Canada for not even letting me know nor allow me to get a refund).

Otherwise, there is room in the case for the 3850 - good luck!

[MrDisco]

You don't need to bump your questions.

When you buy your power supply make sure it can fit in your case. And if you're using an older one one make sure it has a PCIe power connector (or you have dongles to convert 2 ide molex power connectors).

480w is fine.

Playing most games at max? dunno. google 3850 and read some reviews. depends on the resolution you're playing at as well. besides you're going to be limited by your processer and ram at a certain point.

ok thanks for the info

[christonian]

The PSU from that computer does not even have a PCI-E plug for any graphics card, so a replacement is going to be necessary.

I know, because I have a 3850 in a box sitting right next to the same computer... the PSU that I ordered with the video card is on backorder (which sucks, thanks Direct Canada for not even letting me know nor allow me to get a refund).

Otherwise, there is room in the case for the 3850 - good luck!

when did you get this computer i got mine off bestbuy.ca but it says its hasnt even shipped yet which is starting to piss me off

couldnt i just buy something to convert it into one PCi-E connector without having to buy a whole new thing

[mavrik13]

when did you get this computer i got mine off bestbuy.ca but it says its hasnt even shipped yet which is starting to piss me off

couldnt i just buy something to convert it into one PCi-E connector without having to buy a whole new thing

Its not the first time they have had this computer on sale, I bought it a couple weeks ago. The computer is in the expired deals section of the site.

You could possibly convert it into a PCI-E connector, but would you really trust a $200 card with that tiny little PSU? I wouldnt.

[christonian]

Its not the first time they have had this computer on sale, I bought it a couple weeks ago. The computer is in the expired deals section of the site.

You could possibly convert it into a PCI-E connector, but would you really trust a $200 card with that tiny little PSU? I wouldnt.

no i do have another PSU and i think i have extra spots on it so thats what i think im doing instead of buying another PSU i think the one i have now is 550 or higher just cant remember exactly

have you had any problems with the PC and how is Vista im a little iffy on that i wish i could go back to XP lol

yah it came back in stock on last friday with 25 instock online i ordered because i been watching this model but have not got any info yet on shipping or even if im getting the machine which is making me worry with my 3850 already on its way lol from NCIX

[mabba18]

anyone else wonder why there arn't any "built by ATI" cards available?

they are all made by sapphire, diamond, or HIS
i personally like it when it's branded From ATI myself as i find them a lot easier to deal with if there are any warranty issues

I am wondering this also.

Does ATI manufacture their own cards at all now, or will they only have "ATI Brand" Dimaond cards?