Canada Customs make me feel like a terrorist.

[BMNB1tchesss]

Over a couple of little shopping bags. Also, the way they handled things, and search my car, I could have actually had a bomb in the backseat. If your going to interrogate me, at least search the car properly, and not look for purchases as much as you should be looking for drugs. Am I even Canadian?

[rogeryen]

they are thinking way ahead of you, probably suspected that you are the smarter kind of terrorists that hide the bombs in brand new packages!:lol:

[Ebola]

Great post. Really contributes.

You had your car briefly searched.

"interrogated" . Ya .....

As a Canadian your right is to come into the country. And that's what happened. I don't know, are you still a Canadian?

Whatever, I'm not going to change your mind anyway.

[spf1971]

He's complaining because they didn't tear apart his car? That's a new one.

[Ebola]

He's complaining because they didn't tear apart his car? That's a new one.

Trust me. It's not.

[Chief]

I see his point, their focus is more on taxation than on security.

But then wouldn't you feel more like a terrorist if they searched you for bombs/drugs than if they just searched for merchandise?

[Ebola]

You know how I know we are tightening up across the board?

With all the complaining I hear now about being "hassled" at the border, and how everything "takes longer than usual", and how "everyone is getting pulled over".

Guess what, if they are opening up and re-assessing packages, it means they are opening up packages to check for things more dubious in nature than an Ipod.

It's just growing pains while turning into a credible enforcement agency, but people will adjust eventually.

That being said, you can't win in the public service.

If people get let go, we are a joke who are too lenient.

If we are told we are porous and it's a concern for the public, you search more and more cars, and then we are accused of "hassling" "innocent tax paying Canadians", when we "should be going after the real criminals".

Well nooo way, the majority of travellers ARE innocent!

But if someone has developed a way to determine magically who is breaking the law and isnt 100% perfectly, then I'll be the first to send them money to put it into service.

And after a little 10 minute delay, the "innocent" are on their way up the road.... speeding and what have you.

But man, we must be missing out on serious talent if all these armchair law enforcement officers can do everything 10 x better than the RCMP and the CBSA every time.

[Chief]

I don't think people would mind being searched as much if they weren't TREATED like criminals when crossing the border. I've been back and forth across the border from Montreal, Niagara, Erie, Windsor, and Vancouver dozens of times, and I remember having ONE nice CBSA official. Hell going into the States the officials are nicer to foreigners than my own government is to me.

Also, reading reports of people being told "thanks for killing the Canadian economy" when crossing back into Canada only reiterates my point. If most Canadians are innocent, treat us as such. If border officials would smile and say "I'm sorry we're going to have to search your car" instead of pointing and saying "park there" people wouldn't be complaining so much.

Everyone understands the need for security and taxes, but Canadians shouldn't have to pay taxes to listen to rude border officials.

[Ebola]

I don't think people would mind being searched as much if they weren't TREATED like criminals when crossing the border. I've been back and forth across the border from Montreal, Niagara, Erie, Windsor, and Vancouver dozens of times, and I remember having ONE nice CBSA official. Hell going into the States the officials are nicer to foreigners than my own government is to me.
Also, reading reports of people being told "thanks for killing the Canadian economy" when crossing back into Canada only reiterates my point. If most Canadians are innocent, treat us as such. If border officials would smile and say "I'm sorry we're going to have to search your car" instead of pointing and saying "park there" people wouldn't be complaining so much.
Everyone understands the need for security and taxes, but Canadians shouldn't have to pay taxes to listen to rude border officials.

Fair enough.

I personally make it my personal policy to smile when people pull up, and be respectful until you act like a prick or give me a reason to get serious.

I do work with people who are ornery and gruff for no reason. I can't help that.

That being said, I am NOT sorry that I have to search your car.

Because until that point, you have the same potential to be smuggling drugs or guns or whatever as anyone else.

So I do take control and tell people where to stand and question them. Then I do my search, and THEN I say "sorry for the delay, drive safe."

It's not our job to be greeters, it's our job to be gatekeepers. There is always room for improvement, and I'll be the first to admit that.

[canabiz]

CBSA should send officers on courses for *soft skills*, if applicable.

They have a job to do and they should do it the right way but let's face it, the officers are normally the first point of contact for visitors coming into Canada and as they say you don't have a second chance to make the first impression.

There has been numerous complaints/vents about border officers in this and other forum, I don't think it is fair because there are always 2 sides to the story but at the same time, there are always rooms for improvement.

[Chief]

Fair enough.

I personally make it my personal policy to smile when people pull up, and be respectful until you act like a prick or give me a reason to get serious.

I do work with people who are ornery and gruff for no reason. I can't help that.

That being said, I am NOT sorry that I have to search your car.

Because until that point, you have the same potential to be smuggling drugs or guns or whatever as anyone else.

So I do take control and tell people where to stand and question them. Then I do my search, and THEN I say "sorry for the delay, drive safe."

It's not our job to be greeters, it's our job to be gatekeepers. There is always room for improvement, and I'll be the first to admit that.

good to hear, I hope I land up at your station next time I cross the border.
and that is fair, you shouldn't be sorry for doing your job, it's just a shame that all the rude officials make the rest of you guys look bad.
If people don't mind talking to border officials, I believe it will encourage the public to report suspicious activity, and make our borders even safer.

[JC69]

You'll never please everybody it seems.

I appreciate the security, but then I'm the kind of person that gets ticked off when a cashier doesn't look at the signature on my credit card.

I have always found the border guards to be cheerful coming into Canada whether by car or air. I often get a "welcome home" when I land in Toronto which is really nice.

On the contrary, I have met some of the most officious pricks in the States.

I think most people just get ticked off because they used to just scoot over the border without paying duty. I'm sure eventually things will run smoothly and many people still know that even with taxes and duties we're getting bargains.

[HighFlyer]

CBSA should send officers on courses for *soft skills*, if applicable.

They have a job to do and they should do it the right way but let's face it, the officers are normally the first point of contact for visitors coming into Canada and as they say you don't have a second chance to make the first impression.

There has been numerous complaints/vents about border officers in this and other forum, I don't think it is fair because there are always 2 sides to the story but at the same time, there are always rooms for improvement.
Agreed. While Ebola and cwb27 (former) are probably one of the few reasonable BSOs out there, one only needs to take a trip through YVR International arrivals to see the ugly side of the CBSA and paint every other BSO with the same brush.

I won't repeat what I've mentioned before.... other than we're not looking for the welcome mat to be rolled out to us at primary/secondary. But barking at us with questions like "Are you *sure* you're not lying?" do indeed leave a negative impression.

[spf1971]

Trust me. It's not.

Damned if you do and Damned if you don't. I'm glad I don't work in customer service.

[mudman24]

You think thats bad, try the American boarder strip searching ya. First there dog detected drugs, pulled me over sent me in. They said they found a bag with a white substance in it, boy oh boy did they harrass me and my passenger. Was strip searched, ripped my car apart, threatened us, said they would throw us in jail, take my car away etc.. They finally told me and my passanger that the bag was full of sugar. To be fair my passanger smokes pot, she didnt have any on her, as i told her thats a big no no. So maybe thats where the dog got the the sent, and after that they were just trying to sweat it out of us because they couldnt find anything. Decided to play games with a bag of sugar.

Its funny that a week before that, on the canadian side, they found searched my car, didnt find anything. Its possible my uncle who is a diabetic put it in there but he said no he didnt. Anyways end up being late for the Police concert. Was held for over 2hrs.

[mikep]

I don't think people would mind being searched as much if they weren't TREATED like criminals when crossing the border. I've been back and forth across the border from Montreal, Niagara, Erie, Windsor, and Vancouver dozens of times, and I remember having ONE nice CBSA official. Hell going into the States the officials are nicer to foreigners than my own government is to me.


I also cross back and forth many border areas and at airports.

The attitude of the border guard makes all the difference in the world. You can search my car, search me and so on. Just be polite and respectful of my property.

Even during the same search, I have had the "good cop, bad cop" thing happening. One agent very pleasant, the other a real jerk.

Like one agent telling me to park somewhere, and another screaming at me because I parked there. A professional, courteous attitude is important, at least until proven guilty of something. Any other demeanor simply makes us (Canadians) look like a third-world country that is unable to properly train our officials.

However I will say that generally I find the CBSA is doing a good job. There does seem to be a good amount of roll over in the jobs at my main crossing which I have been curious about. I wonder why they are unable to keep the same people in place for long periods of time.

Like in many situations, it only takes a few unprofessional agents to make the rest look bad.

[Rx-87]

Quick question.. in terms of ways to minimize security threats coming across the border..

Doesn't customs have those gigantic X-ray machines etc.. that can scan a whole car?? I think they have that for the 16 wheelers right?? I might be mistaken..

Don't know if they have it implemented already or not.. but aside from just "scanning" plates to determine the amount of time in leaving the country... why not have these gigantic x-ray machines, where every time a car drives up to the booth.. they get scanned? And the officer while questioning the passengers in the vehicles can quickly determine whether or not they need to be tax'ed/dutied .. or searched? Based on the images etc etc, say you see the masses of bags n items in the car.. etc..



I think they already have this kind of technology, don't know if its being used or not though..

[tvwatcher]

they do have some kind of machine on the U.S. side - my husband is a truck driver, and had to take over a load of kitty litter - which, as it turns out, contains a substance that the machine's detectors pick up on - which then sets off alarms, and next thing one knows, one is surrounded by police cars with their lights flashing, cops yelling "OUT OF THE TRUCK", and one is almost crapping one's pants :D

they made him open the back of his truck, and the officers surrounding him each had their hands on their gun holsters

he had quite a story to tell when he got home. ROFL

[Ebola]

Quick question.. in terms of ways to minimize security threats coming across the border..

Doesn't customs have those gigantic X-ray machines etc.. that can scan a whole car?? I think they have that for the 16 wheelers right?? I might be mistaken..

Don't know if they have it implemented already or not.. but aside from just "scanning" plates to determine the amount of time in leaving the country... why not have these gigantic x-ray machines, where every time a car drives up to the booth.. they get scanned? And the officer while questioning the passengers in the vehicles can quickly determine whether or not they need to be tax'ed/dutied .. or searched? Based on the images etc etc, say you see the masses of bags n items in the car.. etc..



I think they already have this kind of technology, don't know if its being used or not though..


Yes there are gamma x-ray trucks. CBSA does not currently have any stand alone gamma xray machine thats cars can drive through. To my knowledge anway..

The problem with the gamme ray machines is they require a crew of at least 3 to operate. The car has to sit stationary while a driver moves the truck slowly to complete the scan. Another officer has to view and analyze the scan, while a third officer has to babysit the passengers of the truck or vehicle while the scan is going on.

It takes at least 5 minutes for each scan, to get the complete image and anaylze it. The anaylsis itself is an art.. when looking at vehicles you have to know where different things are on different models, so you don't jump the gun and tag one mass as suspect when all it is , is a muffler ( bad example).

While I would like to scan every car, I honestly think your idea is a good one, there just isn't the :

a)Funding - To outfit every crossing / lane with one who cost a fortune.

b)Staffing - To maintain and operate the system

c)Desire - From both an adminstrative and public opinion point of view. Look at all the threads in these forums, people are up in arms over taxes assessed on things they ordered from the comfort of their home, or how CBSA makes them feel like a criminal by searching their car. Just imagine if they had to wait in line that extrra 5 minutes for every car, I'd need more than Soft Body Armour and a sidearm, I'd need a tank to protect me from all the flak we'd get.


To answer your original question : Yes the x-ray trucks are used regularly on transport trucks, and on larger personal vehicles.

[InFeXiOn]

What are the duty/tax fees you have to pay? Like, what's the formula to calculate it?

Also, couldn't you in theory even if you're searched just take your purchases out of their retail packaging and put them in a backpack or something as if they were used and they can't force you to pay taxes on it?

I rarely, if at all, cross the border - just curious what kind of fees/duties you pay and how you go about calculating those.

[Ebola]

What are the duty/tax fees you have to pay? Like, what's the formula to calculate it?

Also, couldn't you in theory even if you're searched just take your purchases out of their retail packaging and put them in a backpack or something as if they were used and they can't force you to pay taxes on it?

I rarely, if at all, cross the border - just curious what kind of fees/duties you pay and how you go about calculating those.

Look a few threads down this page for my FAQ thread.

And sorry , but if you put them in your backpack without telling us about them, yes, we can make you pay taxes on them, even take them from you.

Your backpack and no packaging doesn't magically make them not subject to tax.

[CSK'sMom]

What are the duty/tax fees you have to pay? Like, what's the formula to calculate it?

Also, couldn't you in theory even if you're searched just take your purchases out of their retail packaging and put them in a backpack or something as if they were used and they can't force you to pay taxes on it?

I rarely, if at all, cross the border - just curious what kind of fees/duties you pay and how you go about calculating those.

Read the FAQ on cross border shopping that Ebola has so kindly posted in this very forum. :rolleyes: ;)

[InFeXiOn]

Look a few threads down this page for my FAQ thread.

And sorry , but if you put them in your backpack without telling us about them, yes, we can make you pay taxes on them, even take them from you.

Your backpack and no packaging doesn't magically make them not subject to tax.

Ebola,

I understand it doesn't make them exempt from paying tax. The few times I've crossed the border I claim everything, partially because the officers scare the crap out of me and well, because it's illegal not to.

Let's say you bought like a laptop computer or something, and crossed over with it (without packaging) in your backpack - wouldn't they have to assume you bought it in the States? It could be very possible you took it over with you, and are simply crossing back to Canada with it like you should.

[mikep]

They will open the laptop, see what programs are loaded on it, what files have been created and make a judgment call if it is new or not and if they think yo bought it in the US.


It doesn't take a genius to figure out if the laptop was ever used or not.

[cwb27]

They will open the laptop, see what programs are loaded on it, what files have been created and make a judgment call if it is new or not and if they think yo bought it in the US.


It doesn't take a genius to figure out if the laptop was ever used or not.

Laptop/computer contents are primarily examined for prohibited materials, namely, kiddy porn.

I can almost guarantee that each and every one of you would be shocked at how many people get nailed with the stuff at border crossings.

[InFeXiOn]

They will open the laptop, see what programs are loaded on it, what files have been created and make a judgment call if it is new or not and if they think yo bought it in the US.


It doesn't take a genius to figure out if the laptop was ever used or not.

It also doesn't take a genius to load some non-stock programs/applications up on the laptop and throw some Word documents and what not into the mix before crossing over to give the illusion that it's used.

I'm simply playing devil's advocate here - but do you see what I'm getting at?

Is it more or less a judgement call by the officer in question?

[InFeXiOn]

Laptop/computer contents are primarily examined for prohibited materials, namely, kiddy porn.

I can almost guarantee that each and every one of you would be shocked at how many people get nailed with the stuff at border crossings.

That's odd, because although the last time I crossed the border I was 17 (or 18) and had my laptop computer with me they knew I had it because they saw it clean as day in my bag but didn't really take note of it.

Didn't even look at it really, just glanced, and moved on. No inspecting files. No interrogating.

[CSK'sMom]

InFeXiOn, technically when crossing the border with anything that could be questioned (laptop, cameras, etc) the proper procedure is to stop at Customs on the way out of the country and get the proper paperwork showing that the item in question is leaving the country and returning with you. Everyone seems to forget "that part" along with the onus is generally on the traveller to prove the item in question isn't being smuggled. ;)

[HighFlyer]

It also doesn't take a genius to load some non-stock programs/applications up on the laptop and throw some Word documents and what not into the mix before crossing over to give the illusion that it's used.

I'm simply playing devil's advocate here - but do you see what I'm getting at?

Is it more or less a judgement call by the officer in question?

Then it's up to you to prove that you had the item before you left Canada.

[cwb27]

That's odd, because although the last time I crossed the border I was 17 (or 18) and had my laptop computer with me they knew I had it because they saw it clean as day in my bag but didn't really take note of it.

Didn't even look at it really, just glanced, and moved on. No inspecting files. No interrogating.

Who said anything about they had to search everyone's laptop? When an officer wants to search a laptop/computer they are well within their authority to do so.

[HighFlyer]

That's odd, because although the last time I crossed the border I was 17 (or 18) and had my laptop computer with me they knew I had it because they saw it clean as day in my bag but didn't really take note of it.
A few years ago during the work to rule campaign, they sent all business travellers with a laptop to secondary.

[InFeXiOn]

InFeXiOn, technically when crossing the border with anything that could be questioned (laptop, cameras, etc) the proper procedure is to stop at Customs on the way out of the country and get the proper paperwork showing that the item in question is leaving the country and returning with you. Everyone seems to forget "that part" along with the onus is generally on the traveller to prove the item in question isn't being smuggled. ;)

Couldn't you just act ignorant and claim that you didn't have the appropriate paperwork to claim your laptop/camera when initially entering the US, even though you purchased outside of Canada?

Seems like it's a judgement call on the officer's behalf. No?

[CSK'sMom]

I guess you missed this part...

with the onus is generally on the traveller to prove the item in question isn't being smuggled.

[Ebola]

Couldn't you just act ignorant and claim that you didn't have the appropriate paperwork to claim your laptop/camera when initially entering the US, even though you purchased outside of Canada?

Seems like it's a judgement call on the officer's behalf. No?

Ignorance of a law isn't an excuse to violate it.


As for your response to my original post, basically as a BSO, we are to, and have to, assume nothing.

Laptops are searched regularly ... as cwp said a primary concern is child pornography.

But no, we had a guy come through with 2 laptops the other day, said one was his , and one was his friends that he was bringing in for him.

Long story short, he was at our port for probably 5-6 hours, and one of our intelligence officers came down to question him and examine the laptops.

Basically it was up to him to convince us that he hadn't just acquired them.

And this is gonna put a damper on the story... my shift was over before it was resolved. Hahah sorry so I don't know what happened there.

[Jin-n-Juice]

Ignorance of a law isn't an excuse to violate it.


As for your response to my original post, basically as a BSO, we are to, and have to, assume nothing.

Laptops are searched regularly ... as cwp said a primary concern is child pornography.

But no, we had a guy come through with 2 laptops the other day, said one was his , and one was his friends that he was bringing in for him.

Long story short, he was at our port for probably 5-6 hours, and one of our intelligence officers came down to question him and examine the laptops.

Basically it was up to him to convince us that he hadn't just acquired them.

And this is gonna put a damper on the story... my shift was over before it was resolved. Hahah sorry so I don't know what happened there.

Just out of curiousity, if you're at customs trying to prove the laptop is yours, is it possible the officers let you on the internet to put in your serial number or something on the manufacturers website? I'm not sure if that alone will prove that the laptop's yours and you didn't just acquire it, but it might help your cause....