City of Toronto asking residents to PAY $$$ for garbage pickup

[sketchED]

The city is targeting 70% waste diversion from landfill by 2010. To help us get there, every house in Toronto will receive a new recycling blue bin to replace the current blue/grey boxes. There is no cost for the new recycling blue bin and each household gets to choose from a small to xlarge. You must use your new blue bin to receive collection service

You'll also be getting a new garbage bin in 2008...note when selecting the size of the garbage bin please keep in mind the ANNUAL FEE associate with it;

small 1 bag (free),
med 1.5 bags ($41/year),
large 3 bags ($101),
x-large 6 bags ($141).

I think that they are sending out the recycle bins/garbage bins in phases, starting with Scarborough this fall.

Any Thoughts? Don't you think that garbage pickup should be covered under our municipal property taxes or is it good that we switched to this pay per bag system? What bin size will you be choosing?

Here is the website to www.toronto.ca/target70

[GangStarr]

Sounds like a good deal for people who live in condo's :p

[mannie511]

for the new garbage bin, it's only an estimate, it's not final yet. they will ask again when the details of the program has been finalized.

i chose medium~ but when the details come out, might choose small instead. just have to do a better job of sorting out garbage at home.

[Tjalfe]

can we assume a drop in property taxes, now that garbage becomes something paid for separately?

[Choosy]

Paying for garbage is a good thing, it gives people some motivation to stop wasting and consider what to throw out/ what to buy.

I've done a study on Toronto's garbage, and about 2000 tonnes a day is generated and trucked away to michigan for the most part right now. However it will be trucked away to london in the near future. So that in itself costs money for trucking things to transfer stations. Mind you, landfilling is the worst possible answer for dealing with garbage. Sure dumping it is cheap, but maintaining it later on is quite expensive as it can easily require maintenance for up to 25 years. Garbage generates alot of pollutants that you wouldnt think mattered, as in those CFL's everyone is buying... It's estimated that 5 kg? maybe 5 tonnes, i cant remember but probably more realistic, per year of mercury is generated just from the disposal of those. Theres also the incredible amount of CO2 generated from decomposition of things and incineration of things. I think in Ontario the limit for an industrial process is 100 million tonnes of generated CO2.

Garbage is basically useless as a fuel, the only way landfills/incinerators make money from burning garbage is to charge a tipping fee. Right now the tipping fee to Michigan is about 77$/tonne of garbage from the transfer station. When Michigan closes its border to our trash, it'll still cost about 70$/tonne to landfill in london.

All in all, 100% diversion is very hard and costly, to the city and the residents.

[brunes]

The city is targeting 70% waste diversion from landfill by 2010. To help us get there, every house in Toronto will receive a new recycling blue bin to replace the current blue/grey boxes. There is no cost for the new recycling blue bin and each household gets to choose from a small to xlarge. You must use your new blue bin to receive collection service

You'll also be getting a new garbage bin in 2008...note when selecting the size of the garbage bin please keep in mind the ANNUAL FEE associate with it;

small 1 bag (free),
med 1.5 bags ($41/year),
large 3 bags ($101),
x-large 6 bags ($141).

I think that they are sending out the recycle bins/garbage bins in phases, starting with Scarborough this fall.

Any Thoughts? Don't you think that garbage pickup should be covered under our municipal property taxes or is it good that we switched to this pay per bag system? What bin size will you be choosing?

Here is the website to www.toronto.ca/target70

This sounds fair enough to me. Our city has blue and grey bin pickup, and me and my wife create a MAX of 0.5 bags of garbage a week. If we had an outdoor compost that would likely drop to 1/4 a bag. Sure when we have 1-2 kids that will go up but I would not think by more than 50%.

If you recycle properly you have next to no garbage. Almost everything you throw away is recyclable. The whole point of doing this is to discourage lazy people from not using the bins. I know around here we have blue/grey bin pickup and also free garbage pickup, and you would not believe the amount of recyclable stuff I see people throw in the trash just cause they're too lazy to think about what box to p ut it in.

[eelfliw]

Paying for garbage is a good thing, it gives people some motivation to stop wasting and consider what to throw out/ what to buy.
Agreed.

In fact, we should go one step further and make people pay for over use of healthcare. It gives some people motivation to stop harming themselves with cigarettes, alcohol or dangerous sports.

[jayk]

This sounds fair enough to me. Our city has blue and grey bin pickup, and me and my wife create a MAX of 0.5 bags of garbage a week. If we had an outdoor compost that would likely drop to 1/4 a bag. Sure when we have 1-2 kids that will go up but I would not think by more than 50%.

If you recycle properly you have next to no garbage. Almost everything you throw away is recyclable. The whole point of doing this is to discourage lazy people from not using the bins. I know around here we have blue/grey bin pickup and also free garbage pickup, and you would not believe the amount of recyclable stuff I see people throw in the trash just cause they're too lazy to think about what box to p ut it in.

I totally agree. I even take the extra step to accumulate stuff like styrofoam and plastic bags to recycle later en masse.

[GangStarr]

Anyone else think that charging per bag would encourage cheapskates and contractors to dump illegally? I see this all too many times under the Allen Rd / Wilson Heights exit hydro fields.

[nalababe]

I am completely fine with it....

We already use a huge blue coloured garbage bin as our recycling bin....All I ask for is that we get collection every week for recycling.

We'd have the large recycling, small garbage and the green bin. This is more than sufficient for a family of 3 with two cats.

and get over with the property tax...we already pay next to nothing here in Toronto...my 500-600k house pays only 3600 a year...that is nothing.

[glemlin]

Garbage is basically useless as a fuel...

There is always the possibility of methane farming from landfills..

As for the pricing, I'd assume legally the city would have to remove garbage removal from property taxes.

[NeilMcduck]

I'm all for the idea--everyone should pay their fair share of the service depending on how much they use it.

What wasn't clear in the pamphlet is what to do if we have a higher than normal garbage load during the year. Christmas time or during small renovations are good examples...We usually have 1 garbage bag a week, but that can go up as high as 3 or 4 on special occasions. Will there be prepaid bags available like the ones businesses use for pickup?

I'm also be worried about illegal dumping or people mixing garbage in with their organic green bin waste to get around the 1 bin rule...

[TechRock]

http://www.toronto.ca/target70/pdf/blue-and-garbage-bins-dimensions.pdf

there is the information, just order 1 med blue bin and 1 large garbage bin

[nalababe]

There is always the possibility of methane farming from landfills..

As for the pricing, I'd assume legally the city would have to remove garbage removal from property taxes.

Why would you make that assumption. There is no reason for them to remove from property taxes. Our minimal property taxes are not nearly sufficient to cover everything that the city offers...

...I have no problem paying for services I get...but more importantly services that others get. It is wonderful that poorer areas get access to facilities and programs that otherwise they could not afford. If you don't like socialism, move out of the three major Canadian cities.

[st7860]

out west most cities have been charging for garbage pickup already for .... as long as most people can remember.

[Choosy]

There is always the possibility of methane farming from landfills..

As for the pricing, I'd assume legally the city would have to remove garbage removal from property taxes.

Methane farming is actually pretty poor in efficiency, something along the lines of 50%? the rest of it goes poof into air.

But to correct myself, garbage isn't useless as a fuel. It's actually used as fuel for incinerators,gasifiers,steam reformers(new tech), plasma-arc(although we'd need to make alot more garbage to make it economically feasible). But the major revenue for such waste management systems come from the tipping fee as garbage is about 1/4 the heating value of butane if my memory serves me.

I think the garbage removal will still be there, as your only purchasing the bins that they will still pick up occationally

[Choosy]

Anyone else think that charging per bag would encourage cheapskates and contractors to dump illegally? I see this all too many times under the Allen Rd / Wilson Heights exit hydro fields.

Aye it'd encourage cheapskates to illegally dump. Contractors on the other hand I'd think its a bit riskier as they are being watched. In general, the overall population will outweigh what the cheapskates can dish out.

[ephemera]

I don't feel sorry. Residents of Toronto overwhelmingly vote NDP so how could there not be higher taxes and fees on everything.

[nalababe]

Actually, we here in Toronto vote Liberal...while many of us like the NDP, we have no desire to have them in power...

Actually our taxes are not high when compared to the suburbs. My parents, had a larger house in Georgetown, but less value (33% less) and paid 33% more in taxes. They have no public transit, less recreational facilities for the kids, fewer libraries...actually what do they get for their money?

[nik003]

Agreed.

In fact, we should go one step further and make people pay for over use of healthcare. It gives some people motivation to stop harming themselves with cigarettes, alcohol or dangerous sports.

I think stupidity should hurt !!! Put that in a law :)

Just give us private health care, and let us choose where we want to go, that would be freedom, along with letting us choose how to enjoy our spare time :)

[Firebot]

Actually, we here in Toronto vote Liberal...while many of us like the NDP, we have no desire to have them in power...

Actually our taxes are not high when compared to the suburbs. My parents, had a larger house in Georgetown, but less value (33% less) and paid 33% more in taxes. They have no public transit, less recreational facilities for the kids, fewer libraries...actually what do they get for their money?

Miller is a die-hard NDP socialist, that recently didn't renew his membership so he wouldn't be seen as incredibly biased.

[CSR]

Almost all my garbage is from packaging...

[gman]

Actually, we here in Toronto vote Liberal...while many of us like the NDP, we have no desire to have them in power...

Actually our taxes are not high when compared to the suburbs. My parents, had a larger house in Georgetown, but less value (33% less) and paid 33% more in taxes. They have no public transit, less recreational facilities for the kids, fewer libraries...actually what do they get for their money?

Bigger lot, longer section of road in front of their house, better air, easier to drive around.

[nik003]

Bigger lot, longer section of road in front of their house, better air, easier to drive around.

to sum it up, a decent house compared to a cookie-cutter.

[brunes]

I don't feel sorry. Residents of Toronto overwhelmingly vote NDP so how could there not be higher taxes and fees on everything.

Er.... so removing the charge from your property tax and instead making people directly pay for what they use is increasing taxes... how? If anything this seems like a more conservatively slanted move than a liberal one, at least according to the CLASSICAL definitions of liberalism vs. conservatism.

Not everything that is good for the environment is a leftist-pinko-commie agenda!

[anom]

Anyone else think that charging per bag would encourage cheapskates and contractors to dump illegally? I see this all too many times under the Allen Rd / Wilson Heights exit hydro fields.

Actually it's a myth that illegal dumping increases, there may be an initial spike, but in the long run people conform :)

I think it's a good idea. I know here in York Region (North of Toronto), if you go over the bag limit you have to buy special tags for the extra bags. Sort of a similar system with just a different way of doing it.

One concern I have is that most people already have garbage bins, so what happens to these? If people purchase these required bins aren't we just creating more garbage by making our current bins useless?

[UrbanPoet]

as long as recycling is free its all good.
So much stuff can be recycled.
Anything PAper, most containers and packaging can be blue binned.

[jackieskwong]

lol, as a true RFD'er i'm going to take my trash and dump it all in the public garbage bins:razz:

[Justin]

This will cause more problems for the city when everyone starts flushing half their garbage down the tiolet.

[gman]

This will cause more problems for the city when everyone starts flushing half their garbage down the tiolet.

That won't be a problem. Whoever is so stupid doing that will soon not able to flush anything down the toilet. That will save tax dollar because the sewage plant will have less to filter. In addition, the plumbers will have increased income.

[UrbanPoet]

That won't be a problem. Whoever is so stupid doing that will soon not able to flush anything down the toilet. That will save tax dollar because the sewage plant will have less to filter. In addition, the plumbers will have increased income.

not unless they make some sort of grinder type thing that cuts up garbage into little pieces.

[gman]

not unless they make some sort of grinder type thing that cuts up garbage into little pieces.

If they take the effort to grinder the garbage, they probably will find out they will fit into a small plastic garbage bag. They will also find out that cannot be flushed down the toilet either. Even if it is cut up, try flushing plastic like stuff such as packaging plastic, you probably waste more money to the water.

There are not many stuff that can be cut to small pieces and it can be flushed down to the toilet and it does not block the pipe and it cannot put into blue box or green bin.

[fiscal-rick]

I hope they do it an only to Toronto.

dont they ship Toronto waste to the states?