20 Shocking Facts on the Environment

[alkaseltzer01]

http://www.greenexpander.com/2007/10/30/20-shocking-facts-on-the-environment/


1. Want to help the environment? If you we’re thinking about buying a hybrid car, think again. According to scientists from the University of Chicago, the environment could benefit more if you go vegan than if you buy an eco-friendly car.
2. Who is the #1 source of water pollution? In the U.S., the main source of water pollution is not chemical waste but the excrement of farm animals.

3. According to recent studies, 70% of the world’s marine species are at risk of extinction.
4. John Robbins in his book “The Food Revolution” reveals that you could save more water by not eating a pound of California beef rather than not showering for one whole year.
5. Fruits and vegetables go to waste every year. People cannot afford to buy them so the EU spends millions of euros annually to destroy good fruits and vegetable. The US and Canada have equally despicable food policies. This is done while over 40,000 children die every day due to starvation.
6. Animals raised for food currently generate between 15 and 20% of methane emissions globally.
7. In recent news, scientists aim for lab-grown meat. This means that a single cell taken from an animal could produce in theory the world’s annual meat supply.overweight.jpg

8. For the first time in history, overweight people is about to reach the number of underweight people. While some countries grow more prosperous, others confront with ever serious hunger problems.
9. Fish farming has been developed to replace to wild fish stocks that are ever lower. Ironically, these farmed fish are fed wild fish thus depleting the oceans even more.
10. Every ton of recycled office paper saves 380 gallons of oil. 50 million tons of paper are consumed annually by Americans, more than 850 million trees being cut down.
11. It takes 5 pounds of wild ocean fish to produce a single pound of farmed saltwater fish or shrimp.

12. Numerous species are going extinct and, by 2100, extinction may reach one third of all species now living. Not only will these animals be forever lost, but the loss of many ingredients for today’s medicine. This is produced in tropical forests and means for producers the sum of 30 billion dollars a year.
More than half of the world’s tropical forests have been lost. Each year, over 63,000 square miles are destroyed.

14. Don’t leave your tap running! Only a dripping tap means you’re wasting 13 liters of water a day.

15. Recycle, recycle, recycle! It takes around 450 years for a plastic bottle to degrade. Recycle paper and for every tonne of paper you save 17 trees.

16. Thinking about going vegan? According to PETA, each vegetarian saves one acre of trees every year.

17. Indonesia contains the most known mammal species, but also the most mammal species under threat.

18. Rainforests have taken thousands of years to form but every second a portion the size of a football field is destroyed.

19. According to John Robbins, two-thirds of the products on supermarket shelves now contain genetically engineered ingredients that are not labeled.

20. 55 square feet of tropical rainforest to produce one “quarter pounder”.

[granite_grrl]

Apparently I wasn't the only one to question some of the points in that article. Here is the comment page for it:

http://www.greenexpander.com/2007/10/30/20-shocking-facts-on-the-environment/#comments

[CHINAdeals]

Apparently I wasn't the only one to question some of the points in that article. Here is the comment page for it:

http://www.greenexpander.com/2007/10/30/20-shocking-facts-on-the-environment/#comments

+1

wtf quarter pounder

[gordholio]

PETA is such and assh*le organization IMHO. On their web page they don't call dogs and cats pets - they call them "animal companions".
My sister and law tried to egg me into an argument over eating McDonald's "dead flesh" (hamburgers). I didn't go for it.
If these vegetarians want to eat that way, then they should do it, not try to argue or convert others or make them look bad for eating meat. I like some meat and I don't equate vegetarianism with healthy.
They are like the "environmental" movement - they worship the earth and the creation (Gaia worship), rather than the Creator.

[mart242]

11. It takes 5 pounds of wild ocean fish to produce a single pound of farmed saltwater fish or shrimp.

:confused: Really? Or is that "fact" non-sense as well?

[Grassgreen]

If "fact" number 20 was true, I would personally have destroyed half of the worlds rainforests myself in the last 10 years.

Give me a break. And hey, I love animals too....MEDIUM RARE!!!!

[Impossibles]

:confused: Really? Or is that "fact" non-sense as well?

Made up fact.

[dgmorr]

Made up fact.

That's a fact.

[IronMac]

:confused: Really? Or is that "fact" non-sense as well?

Hrmmm...I think the answer is "it depends". For example, bluefin tuna are carnivores so what are you going to feed them in order to keep them alive and to fatten them for market? Corn?

If you look even further:

http://www.ofac.org/issues/resources_fish.php

What kind of food do farmed fish eat?

At the present time, feed for salmonids (eg, trout, charr, salmon) contain about 60% of protein that is likely to be fishmeal. Other cultured fish such as tilapia, catfish and carp, can grow and feed with out fishmeal in their diet. Since there is increasing pressure on the world’s wild-harvest fisheries, many are questioning the logic and sustainability of continuing to harvest fish to feed other carnivorous fish. In addition, fish feed is the biggest variable production cost for farmers, and the price of fishmeal is on the rise. To date, researchers have been able to experimentally replace a large proportion of dietary fishmeal with an alternative protein at a reasonable cost, while still obtaining optimal growth rates. The next challenge is to replace the fishmeal completely, while maintaining production efficiency, and economic and environmental sustainability.

[Gedge]

Moral questions aside, going veggie is one of the best things you can do for your health.

[new_vr]

Moral questions aside, going veggie is one of the best things you can do for your health.

Do you have any references for this?

[brunes]

Hrmmm...I think the answer is "it depends". For example, bluefin tuna are carnivores so what are you going to feed them in order to keep them alive and to fatten them for market? Corn?

If you look even further:

http://www.ofac.org/issues/resources_fish.php

Feed them beef.

[a2vr6]

If "fact" number 20 was true, I would personally have destroyed half of the worlds rainforests myself in the last 10 years.

Give me a break. And hey, I love animals too....MEDIUM RARE!!!!

Why do people put stupid/unwanted comments in these threads? I like meat just as much as the next person but I think if we cut down a little, we can help the environment quite a bit. The attitude displayed above is why the world is the way it is.

[Gedge]

Do you have any references for this?

I'm not your nutritionist. Look it up.

[gheart008]

I'm not your nutritionist. Look it up.

It goes both ways:

http://starchefs.com/features/food_debates/html/issue_01.shtml

Healthful or Harmful?

When discussing the health benefits of veganism, most supporters are quick to point out that non-animal based diets tend to be high in fiber, nutrient-rich, cholesterol-free, and low fat [1]. They emphasize that not only is vegan food better for you, but the consumption of non-vegan food, specifically animal fats and proteins, has been linked to a number of health problems. These include obesity, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, osteoporosis, and several kinds of cancer [2]. According to the American Dietetic Association, vegetarian and vegan diets are associated with reduced risks for all of these conditions [3].

The counter-argument is that although vegan diets are undoubtedly beneficial in certain respects, they are detrimental in others, causing minor to serious health problems that often go unnoticed. Critics maintain that even the most informed, health-conscious vegans run the risk of malnutrition [4]. There are several nutrients that are found in abundance in animal products, but exist in only a handful of vegan foods. Therefore, critics argue, while it is possible to get all of the essential nutrients on a vegan diet, it is extremely challenging.

Vitamin B12, for instance, is only naturally-occurring in animal cells and yeast or mold cells. Since vegan sources of vitamin B12 are scarce, vegans must be vigilant about getting enough of this essential vitamin. This is an arduous task, made more difficult by the fact that some vegans altogether avoid yeast or bacterial products. These people must rely upon fortified foods and supplements. A popular argument against veganism is that heavy reliance upon artificial nutrient sources (vitamin pills, fortified foods, etc.) is an unhealthy practice. These people believe that nutrients should be delivered to the body in their natural packaging, which just isn’t feasible on a strict vegan diet.

[ChromeSushi]

If these vegetarians want to eat that way, then they should do it, not try to argue or convert others or make them look bad for eating meat. I like some meat and I don't equate vegetarianism with healthy.
They are like the "environmental" movement - they worship the earth and the creation (Gaia worship), rather than the Creator.

So if someone cares deeply about the planet and wants to protect it, they shouldn't try to convince others to do so? That would be a pretty sad society. You can argue the facts of the situation, but it's unfair to tell people they should just shut up about what they believe in. If you can argue about your "creator" then environmentalists can make arguments about what they believe will protect the planet.

[Eldorado]

So if someone cares deeply about the planet and wants to protect it, they shouldn't try to convince others to do so? That would be a pretty sad society. You can argue the facts of the situation, but it's unfair to tell people they should just shut up about what they believe in. If you can argue about your "creator" then environmentalists can make arguments about what they believe will protect the planet.

It's like preaching to someone about your Religion.. most people just don't want to hear it, and yes it is that annoying to most of us meat eaters hearing a vegan preach about health, cruelty to animals etc

As long as they keep it to minimum, and don't push it, then no problems... but my experience is they really get into it and if you try to argue their points, you might as well just give up and walk away..

Yes I am generalizing, based on my experiences

[brunes]

It goes both ways:

http://starchefs.com/features/food_debates/html/issue_01.shtml

This is true.

The fact of the matter is most vegans are living in denial. If you have to take ANY kind of supplement (incl. B12), then you aren't really a vegan - because where the heck do you think the nutrition in that supplement comes from? Yep - dead cow.

The fact of the matter is humans have evolved to eat meat. We can't survive properly without it. You can't fight your DNA.

[ChromeSushi]

It's like preaching to someone about your Religion.. most people just don't want to hear it, and yes it is that annoying to most of us meat eaters hearing a vegan preach about health, cruelty to animals etc

As long as they keep it to minimum, and don't push it, then no problems... but my experience is they really get into it and if you try to argue their points, you might as well just give up and walk away..

Yes I am generalizing, based on my experiences

I'm a semi-vegetarian, hoping to go full. Personally I avoid talking about it to people unless they bring it up (although here I am on a forum...). I don't see a lot of point in trying to convert people, and most people react negatively like the poster above.. But a lot of people are passionate about it, and I respect people who respectfully speak about what they believe in. Yes, some people are preachy, but when it comes to either religion or environmental beliefs I think most people just like to engage in dialogue.

[st7860]

Do you have any references for this?

+1

[UncleSteve]

I'm not your nutritionist. Look it up.

You made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide a cite to back it up.

[PurpleTiger]

This is true.

The fact of the matter is most vegans are living in denial. If you have to take ANY kind of supplement (incl. B12), then you aren't really a vegan - because where the heck do you think the nutrition in that supplement comes from? Yep - dead cow.

The fact of the matter is humans have evolved to eat meat. We can't survive properly without it. You can't fight your DNA.
Get your facts straight. Fact is B12 comes neither from animals, nor plants...it is a BACTERIA. It just so happens that meat is a very easy source of B12.

[gordholio]

Get your facts straight. Fact is B12 comes neither from animals, nor plants...it is a BACTERIA. It just so happens that meat is a very easy source of B12.

Yeah, it comes from meat. :)

[gordholio]

If someone wants to be a vegetarian go ahead. I just don't want them spouting off about it being better for you and trying to convert you to their way of eating.
I leave vegetarians alone and don't try to make them eat meat.

[SamInfinity]

This is true.

The fact of the matter is most vegans are living in denial. If you have to take ANY kind of supplement (incl. B12), then you aren't really a vegan - because where the heck do you think the nutrition in that supplement comes from? Yep - dead cow.

The fact of the matter is humans have evolved to eat meat. We can't survive properly without it. You can't fight your DNA.

++

When you look at the morphology of our teeth and jaw, it's clear that meat is an important part of our diet. Take our teeth for example. Incisors and canines are there for the sole purpose shredding meat. Similar features are found in carnivores. In addition, the muscles used to close the jaw (temporalis and masseter) are also extremely powerful too. There isn't a need for a such powerful jaw if our diet did not consist of meat.

Of course, I try not to judge people on their decision for becoming vegetarian since we're all shaped by our upbringing, but personally, I don't see a point in it. A balanced diet is much more conducive to satisfying all of your dietary requirements. One example I can think off the top of my head is Iron needs of the body. Yeah, it's possible to get iron from plant sources, but intake of meat provides a much readily available source of heme for your body to use.

[IronMac]

++

When you look at the morphology of our teeth and jaw, it's clear that meat is an important part of our diet. Take our teeth for example. Incisors and canines are there for the sole purpose shredding meat. Similar features are found in carnivores. In addition, the muscles used to close the jaw (temporalis and masseter) are also extremely powerful too. There isn't a need for a such powerful jaw if our diet did not consist of meat.

Of course, I try not to judge people on their decision for becoming vegetarian since we're all shaped by our upbringing, but personally, I don't see a point in it. A balanced diet is much more conducive to satisfying all of your dietary requirements. One example I can think off the top of my head is Iron needs of the body. Yeah, it's possible to get iron from plant sources, but intake of meat provides a much readily available source of heme for your body to use.

Excellent reply. Human beings are omnivores, plain and simple.

[brunes]

Get your facts straight. Fact is B12 comes neither from animals, nor plants...it is a BACTERIA. It just so happens that meat is a very easy source of B12.
Hello - it comes from a bacteria that only lives in the intestines of animals. Hence why it is only found in meat.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

Higher-level mammals like humans can't create enough B12 so they have to eat other animals to get enough. Once again - you can't fight your DNA.

[Emancipated]

PETA is such and assh*le organization IMHO. On their web page they don't call dogs and cats pets - they call them "animal companions".
My sister and law tried to egg me into an argument over eating McDonald's "dead flesh" (hamburgers). I didn't go for it.
If these vegetarians want to eat that way, then they should do it, not try to argue or convert others or make them look bad for eating meat. I like some meat and I don't equate vegetarianism with healthy.
They are like the "environmental" movement - they worship the earth and the creation (Gaia worship), rather than the Creator.

I'm seeing an increasingly stronger point for being vegen. Vegetables do not pollute the atmosphere but actually help it. In general, the west really waste more food than they consume which really should disgust anyone when you think of all the people that don't have food to eat. Fruits/vegetables especially. Work in a supermarket or know someone that does and ask them how much produce they throw out; it's repulsive!

Meat consumption seems to be the dietary choice of the obese. I see these people who are overweight walking about the size of the small cattles. That's ridiculous! Eat to survive, don't act like a glutton.

[gordholio]

I'm seeing an increasingly stronger point for being vegen. Vegetables do not pollute the atmosphere but actually help it. In general, the west really waste more food than they consume which really should disgust anyone when you think of all the people that don't have food to eat. Fruits/vegetables especially. Work in a supermarket or know someone that does and ask them how much produce they throw out; it's repulsive!

Meat consumption seems to be the dietary choice of the obese. I see these people who are overweight walking about the size of the small cattles. That's ridiculous! Eat to survive, don't act like a glutton.

Enjoy your "hearty", vegetarian meals. :D
I went vegetarian a number of years ago for about 9 months, but returned to eating meat. Of course there are going to be more obese people that eat meat because most people eat some meat. The meat is not the cause of the obesity, overeating or other conditions are the cause. Maybe eating too many potato chips fried in vegetable oil or other junk.

[perplexed_one]

humans are omnivores pure and simple.

i try to eat more vegetables, grains, and fruits than I eat land-based meat. That being said I eat all kinds of seafood and lots of it.

The black bear is a classic example of an omnivore, it eats fish, meat, berries, insects, nuts, etc.

i dont think humans could live w/o vegetables nor w/o meat. it's all about a balance of both. if we start to balance it out our diets, we could collectively prevent the environment from fading away it is now.

[vladislav]

I just want to say something about the whole omnivore argument. Unlike other animals we can make educated choices. Yes throughout the years humans were omnivores because we needed it for survival. At this point at least in western society we don't have to depend on meat for survival so the whole omnivore argument means nothing.

I am not trying to tell you to stop eating meat, I just don't want to hear the 'teeth' argument again, it's lame and proves nothing other than during history we developed meat grinding facilities because we relied on meat. Enjoy meat because you like it, because you don't believe a life of an animal is really that important, because you believe that you need meat to survive but don't give me the 'we were created that way' argument. I have much more respect for people who just say 'I don't care, I love meat and that's that' than people who try to justify why meat eating is somehow an undeniable part of our inherent nature.

[ChromeSushi]

I just want to say something about the whole omnivore argument. Unlike other animals we can make educated choices. Yes throughout the years humans were omnivores because we needed it for survival. At this point at least in western society we don't have to depend on meat for survival so the whole omnivore argument means nothing.

I am not trying to tell you to stop eating meat, I just don't want to hear the 'teeth' argument again, it's lame and proves nothing other than during history we developed meat grinding facilities because we relied on meat. Enjoy meat because you like it, because you don't believe a life of an animal is really that important, because you believe that you need meat to survive but don't give me the 'we were created that way' argument. I have much more respect for people who just say 'I don't care, I love meat and that's that' than people who try to justify why meat eating is somehow an undeniable part of our inherent nature.

The whole "you can't fight your DNA" thing is hilarious. If we couldn't fight our DNA we wouldn't be living in cities, in a cold climate country, arguing on the internet. Our DNA is 97% similar to chimpanzees yet we seem to have found a way to 'fight it' pretty well. We do many things, good and bad, that are entirely against our evolutionary path.

[almostfreeman]

The black bear is a classic example of an omnivore, it eats fish, meat, berries, insects, nuts, etc.


Where do black bears get their nuts from? :confused:

[cheeseshredder]

Our DNA is 97% similar to chimpanzees yet we seem to have found a way to 'fight it' pretty well.

Your point was fine, just this reference is stupid and meaningless.

[IronMac]

I just want to say something about the whole omnivore argument. Unlike other animals we can make educated choices. Yes throughout the years humans were omnivores because we needed it for survival. At this point at least in western society we don't have to depend on meat for survival so the whole omnivore argument means nothing.

I am not trying to tell you to stop eating meat, I just don't want to hear the 'teeth' argument again, it's lame and proves nothing other than during history we developed meat grinding facilities because we relied on meat. Enjoy meat because you like it, because you don't believe a life of an animal is really that important, because you believe that you need meat to survive but don't give me the 'we were created that way' argument. I have much more respect for people who just say 'I don't care, I love meat and that's that' than people who try to justify why meat eating is somehow an undeniable part of our inherent nature.

The decision to go vegetarian is a cultural/personal decision. It flies in the face of the entire human race's evolution which is millions of years. What a vegetarian is doing is basically using their knowledge to circumvent Mother Nature.

Ironically enough, eating meat is more "natural" than going vegetarian.

[IronMac]

Where do black bears get their nuts from? :confused:

Are you serious? You don't know anything about nuts like walnuts, chestnuts, etc?

[brunes]

The whole "you can't fight your DNA" thing is hilarious. If we couldn't fight our DNA we wouldn't be living in cities, in a cold climate country, arguing on the internet. Our DNA is 97% similar to chimpanzees yet we seem to have found a way to 'fight it' pretty well. We do many things, good and bad, that are entirely against our evolutionary path.

Er... what you are saing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There is no such thing as doing something "against your evolutionary path". Humans evolved brains that allow us to make and use advanced tools as a competitive advantage. Crows and apes also have this ability. When you see a crow using a tool to do something it is not fighting it's DNA.

Unless you have evolved the ability to directly create nutrients like B-12 and others directly from plants, what you are saying has nothing to do with the fact that you should be eating meat. And in order for us to evolve the ability to metabolize B-12 from plants, everyone who can not do so has to die off in the process.

[brunes]

I just want to say something about the whole omnivore argument. Unlike other animals we can make educated choices. Yes throughout the years humans were omnivores because we needed it for survival. At this point at least in western society we don't have to depend on meat for survival so the whole omnivore argument means nothing.
Once again - you do depend on meat for survival. If you don't eat meat you have to take suppliments that come from meat. Otherwise, you die.

You can't "make an educated choice" to not eat meat any more than you can make an educated choice to stop breathing.

[Matt723]

Where to start... almost every item in the list can be disputed/proven false.

[PurpleTiger]

Hello - it comes from a bacteria that only lives in the intestines of animals. Hence why it is only found in meat.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

Higher-level mammals like humans can't create enough B12 so they have to eat other animals to get enough. Once again - you can't fight your DNA.
You CAN get B12 from non-animal sources of B12 like nutritional yeast (http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources). My point was that it is easiest to get it from eating animals.

I think humans have evolved to the extent where they can make intelligent decisions about what they choose to eat. Just because we prehistorically survived by eating a lot of meat doesn't mean we have to continue the same. I think the meat from animals raised at factory farms of today has little in common with the meat consumed previously. We feed factory animals a lot of filler "crap", and way more protein than ever...all in an attempt to fatten them up quickly, and cheaply.

I don't really care if someone chooses to eat animals, while others don't.

[vladislav]

Once again - you do depend on meat for survival. If you don't eat meat you have to take suppliments that come from meat. Otherwise, you die.

You can't "make an educated choice" to not eat meat any more than you can make an educated choice to stop breathing.

What are you talking about? I've met enough veggies to know that what you just said is BS. None of them are dead and most of them actually don't take any supplements at all.

Yes you can make a choice and stop eating meat, many did and they are doing just fine. Breathing is not really too much of a choice, eating isn't either, but eating a different food is a choice. If there is some vitamin deficiency then evolution will take care of it as it always did.

As I said before, we are at the point where we don't have to kill millions of animals to survive. I am not saying we shouldn't, I am saying we don't have to. By the way, many vegetarians eat stuff like eggs and I'm pretty sure that'll cover whatever meat deficiency they might have. If we are talking Vegans that's a bit different but once again, I've never seen a dying vegan before. In fact a friend of mine is a vegan and she's an older lady, she has more energy that anyone I have ever met in my life.

[a2vr6]

Once again - you do depend on meat for survival. If you don't eat meat you have to take suppliments that come from meat. Otherwise, you die.

You can't "make an educated choice" to not eat meat any more than you can make an educated choice to stop breathing.

LOL at "you must eat meat otherwise you die!!". Lol, ever heard of egg's, nut's or even milk products?

[gordholio]

I believe that God gave us all the plants and certain animals to provide the nutrition we need for our bodies. I have no problem with someone choosing what they will eat or not eat - that's their decision.
We all have free choice.

The best thing in my opinion, is to eat a variety of foods and to not go to extremes.

[brunes]

You CAN get B12 from non-animal sources of B12 like nutritional yeast (http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources). My point was that it is easiest to get it from eating animals.

I think humans have evolved to the extent where they can make intelligent decisions about what they choose to eat. Just because we prehistorically survived by eating a lot of meat doesn't mean we have to continue the same. I think the meat from animals raised at factory farms of today has little in common with the meat consumed previously. We feed factory animals a lot of filler "crap", and way more protein than ever...all in an attempt to fatten them up quickly, and cheaply.

I don't really care if someone chooses to eat animals, while others don't.

Do you read the articles you quote?

"Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 unless they are fortified with it. At least two vegan B12-fortified yeasts are currently on the market"

So, you either eat meat, or you become a vegan and take fortified vitamins/yeast, or you die.

[brunes]

LOL at "you must eat meat otherwise you die!!". Lol, ever heard of egg's, nut's or even milk products?

Er... for one nuts give protein but not all the vitamins and minerals you need.

For two, a vegan will not eat eggs or milk since they came from an animal.

There is a big difference between a vegan and a vegetarian, which is what you seem to think this is about.

Vegetarian == someone who eats mostly vegetables, usually for health reasons. Most vegetarians keep some animal products in their diet, like eggs or milk or cheese.

Vegan == someone who refuses to eat animal products for purely philosophical reasons. The thing people are on about in this thread is that most vegans treat it like a religion, trying to convert everyone they meet, often spouting unscientific rubbish about how people don't need meat and how eating meat kills the planet.

I have no problem with Vegans or Vegetarians, what I have a problem with are people who try to force their viewpoint on others, be it vegans, evangelical Christians, or otherwise. And especially people who use false or misleading facts to do so.

[gordholio]

Do you read the articles you quote?

"Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 unless they are fortified with it. At least two vegan B12-fortified yeasts are currently on the market"

So, you either eat meat, or you become a vegan and take fortified vitamins/yeast, or you die.

I just ordered B12 lozenges to help with my energy level. I do eat meat, but I thought I'd try this.
The lozenges or injections are much more effective than taking B12 pills.

[fiscal-rick]

this post is political

if I am hungry something is going to die. if i run out of animals. I hope vegans taste like chicken!

to balance your post I will leave you with some info a little more fair and balanced than john robbins = http://adognamedkyoto.blogspot.com/

[re:load]

so...... back on topic...

WTF is #1 saying? What does driving a hybrid have to do with being a vegan? If I drive a hybrid (which I do) I'm not doing any good because I eat meat 2 or 3 times a week?

so if I drove a hummer, I'd be making the same difference on the world.... right....

[iLLNESS]

this kind of **** is really irritating

its new aged hippy crap. and any mentioning of vegans saving anything is stupid too.

animals go extinct.. it happens. we can avoid it or slow it down, but its going to happen either way. if it wasnt for things going extinct WE as we know it would not extinct.

vegans saving an acre of land or whatever, i call bs. do vegans grow all their own food in their backyard? no odds are they buy it from a grocery store, even a farmers market. either way, it was grown by a farmer with a big diesel tractor pumping out a wackload of carbon emissions who probably ran over hundreds of field mice, snakes, rodents in the process who crapped all over their naturally grown organic foods.

people need to realise this is the way things are going to be. rather then trying to avoid change, we should just adapt. eating meat isnt hurting our world. we survived thousands of years on meat and slaughtering animals for our digestion.

the first post i seen on that comment thread was %100 correct. if your so worried, STOP HAVING KIDS. its the mass amount of population thats causing all this. the world is not quite yet over populated but at this rate of growth it will. and itll be nice when it happens.. because earth will sustain %99.9 of its max, as soon as it hits %100 or more guess what.. population drops DRAMATICALLY..

checkout the J pattern in populations. its unavoidable and its what we are doing. ill enjoy it when it does :) that way theres less hippies pushing all this crap on everyone

[moebius]

Any kind of exclusive diet is wrong. The well balanced diet is good for you and the environment. If I eat meat grown locally and naturally isn't it better than the vegetable that has been transported from Asia? Or the one that is genetically modified.

Unless you have a health problem you have to deal with (for example cancer) you don't have to go on these crazy diets. Raw diet, vegan diet, low carb diet and so on - all the same - not necessary.

Also, becoming a vegetarian/vegan is almost like religion, which many of them don't seem to understand. Although eating food is still for survival, at least in the western world, we can say it's also about fun and enjoyment too. I take care of what I eat and try not to take too many bad things, but a little of bacon just tastes great and is also pure fun to eat. Once in a while, of course.

Take stock also. Chicken stock is very easy to make and just enhances all the meals it is used in, vegetable stock is very difficult to make and it doesn't do much for meals it is put in. The food is about taste, fun, enjoyment and not about religion. Most of the vegetarians I've met are really trying to solve some more deeper problems with themselves, the animals are just an excuse.

Regarding the B12 - I have a deficiency and I take supplements. Now if I were to go to this vegan diet, I'd simply die. Also, B12 is tricky since you don't experience problems until 3-5 years of deficiency. So, if you are a recent vegan or vegetarian I hope you are checking your blood levels for B12 and also getting some supplements...

[gzajay]

so...... back on topic...

WTF is #1 saying? What does driving a hybrid have to do with being a vegan? If I drive a hybrid (which I do) I'm not doing any good because I eat meat 2 or 3 times a week?

so if I drove a hummer, I'd be making the same difference on the world.... right....



What I think it's trying to say is...the amount of emissions and waste created from making a hybrid car essentially offsets the benefits of buying a hybrid. Thus, it's theoretically more 'green' to eat vegan so reduce environmental impact (see points 4, 6, 9)

[andrew2good4u]

I personally love meat too much to give it up. What's wrong with balance?

[bionicbadger]

lol, what crock.

I'd rather be dead than be vegan.

And notice they mention only food points, nothing about leather. Vegans don't use animal products of any kind, that means no leather/fur in shoes, bags, belts, coats, gloves, sporting equipment, furniture, car seats, etc.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/gods_creatures.jpg

[maebach]

Why do people put stupid/unwanted comments in these threads? I like meat just as much as the next person but I think if we cut down a little, we can help the environment quite a bit. The attitude displayed above is why the world is the way it is.

+1

[st7860]

lol, what crock.

I'd rather be dead than be vegan.

And notice they mention only food points, nothing about leather. Vegans don't use animal products of any kind, that means no leather/fur in shoes, bags, belts, coats, gloves, sporting equipment, furniture, car seats, etc.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/gods_creatures.jpg

is that picture a real ad from somewhere or is it coreldrawed ?

[ElChico]

is that picture a real ad from somewhere or is it coreldrawed ?

I'm 99% sure that is real.