Time to eliminate user fees (aka bus fares) for public transit?

[NG]

Seems like a logical choice for me if we really are committed to reducing global warming.

[anycee]

I believe it is, and I don't even use public transit. As it is, public transit is considerably more expensive than gas (and I can usually find street parking/park illegally) and more time consuming, meaning there is rarely a time when it makes sense for a car driver. This needs to change, and I think eliminating cutting usage fees to say $1, would be the best route.

[NG]

Interesting. One has voted yes so far (I'm assuming it's anycee) and five has voted no. It would have been nice if those five people who voted no could have written why lower/no fees for public transit wouldn't be good for the environment.

[brunes]

Interesting. One has voted yes so far (I'm assuming it's anycee) and five has voted no. It would have been nice if those five people who voted no could have written why lower/no fees for public transit wouldn't be good for the environment.

No doubt it would be good for the environment, but do you really want to foot the tax bill when most people will still not use it?

I am pissed enough that my wife has a MANDATORY $75/semester "transit fee" applied to her student union dues because her student ID is also a valid transit pass - that she never uses because the bus doesn't run anywhere near her class schedule.

You want to help the environment, raise the gas tax, and stop subsidizing coal power plants.

[gman]

Interesting. One has voted yes so far (I'm assuming it's anycee) and five has voted no. It would have been nice if those five people who voted no could have written why lower/no fees for public transit wouldn't be good for the environment.

You said "eliminate". You did not say 'lower'.

Eliminating means it is free. When it is free, somebody needs to pay for it and somebody will abuse it. That means tax payers will pay for it.

Environment is not the only concern. If you really really care about environment only, disallow public transit too. Make everyone stay in their own tiny community and they have to walk, bike, etc. Not using any kind of car (pubic transit included) is good for the environment.

[jayk]

if there were a speed train system across the GTA this would virtually eliminate almost all of the need for cars.

[Chandler]

monorail.........

[Spray]

meh, if it was free you'd have morons taking it a block to Mcdonalds.

metropass isn't that expensive as it is, and you can write it off at the end of the year.

If they make Transit free they better make the 407 free too.

[manixc]

They need to make public transit more efficient and convenient in this country. It won't matter that public transit is free if it sucks.

[eelfliw]

It's not just eliminating the fees. But also maintain (or better) existing service levels.

I have no idea how it can be done in this country. TTC ticket collectors (the ppl who sit on a stool drinking coffee and watching you throw tickets/cash/tokens into the fare box) make $27 an hour. I can't imaging drivers or mechanics make any less as that job is less challenging than even the janitor.

Given those wages, how can the transit be free? Only way to make transit free is to pay these people wages appropriate to the amount of work/responsibility.

[Hairball]

It would be great to have free public transit, but it's just unsustainable, the burden would be too great. However I think if they can reduce the price significantly it would be great to get people out of cars and onto buses.

In some cases, taking the bus costs more than driving, and this shouldn't be the case.

[Kaitlyn]

I live north of Toronto but when I go downtown, the subway is PACKED at rush hour and there are always people on the buses and street cars.

If they suddenly made it free, I don't think they could handle to load.

Convenience is important to... gotta face it in the world we live in. Middle of winter in freezing weather snowing, people would much rather walk to their car on their driveway than to the bus stop. And the route changed in my area so it is actually a rather far walk to get to the nearest bus stop...

[ullyeus]

Here is the problem from my perspective.

I use Winnipeg as an example as I have read a lot about their transportation system.

Studies (at least here) have shown that that even if the bus was *free* that the percentage of people who take it would not increase.

Hence...it would not help to lower the fee to take the bus.

[gman]

Here is the problem from my perspective.

I use Winnipeg as an example as I have read a lot about their transportation system.

Studies (at least here) have shown that that even if the bus was *free* that the percentage of people who take it would not increase.

Hence...it would not help to lower the fee to take the bus.

I agree. If the public transit is free today, will I give up driving to work? The answer is no. With the current service level, the saving of not driving a car to work cannot cover the cost of time I would spend on public transit.

If I give you $1 a day (my cost of gas driving to work) to waste 45 minutes per day in the rest of your life, will you do it? For me, no. If the service level of public transit can be on par on the travel time of driving a car, I will consider. However, when it is free, how can that happen?

[rb]

No such thing as a "free" lunch

How about we offer "free" bikes to everyone who wants to cycle
or free gas to Smart car owners?

and guess who gets dinged with the bill ?

We need to consume less of everything not just gasoline

[nogoro]

way too many parts of the city are inaccessible by public transit. Take the GTA for example, the 905 area is all suburbian sprawl and if nobody drove cars it would be impossible to get enough bus/train lines to take everybody where they want to go. If this were not a free country, people who work in the city could be forced to live in high-density buildings within the city and then public transit will work great.

[chilts]

metropass isn't that expensive as it is, and you can write it off at the end of the year.

You can only write it off if your self employed. The tax credit, I believe, is like a 5-10% discount.


You want to help the environment, raise the gas tax, and stop subsidizing coal power plants.
+1

Vancouver transit isn't very good outside the core areas. All the major routes are packed but it isn't efficient enough for the high density outer suburban areas, where most of the traffic comes from.

I believe BC Transit was talking about a fare hike recently, which really wouldn't help promote the use of transit.

I also like how Seattle has free transit downtown.

[Bullseye]

I doubt if free would increase ridership much. The factor for most of us is the time to get somewhere. I'd be far more likely to use transit again if it could get me to work faster over if it became free.

Transit is WAY cheaper than owning a car already.

[Portwest]

I think the transit system desperately needs improvement far more than it needs a price adjustment.

[brunes]

I doubt if free would increase ridership much. The factor for most of us is the time to get somewhere. I'd be far more likely to use transit again if it could get me to work faster over if it became free.

Transit is WAY cheaper than owning a car already.

Agree 100%. I mean, when you add up gas, insurance, payment, my car costs me $600 / month easily. I could take three cab rides anywhere in this city / day for that - never even mind the bus.

[Green Girl]

eliminating fees completely is not feasible, but what IS feasible is for public transit companies to hire proper economists who can explain that continuously hiking the fees will only deter people from using the service. I rather opt for the even more environmentally friendly walk or bike ride instead..

the TTC even prevents people from stocking up on tokens before a price hike, his only causes customers to get upset, and stay away!

Making it no-cost is not feasible; then it will be fueled with tax dollars which can be as inefficiently spent as the current funding and income, instead the system should be revamped such that it can run at lower cost to the consumer. lower fees= more users = more profits.
yes, it is oversimplified, but the basic concepts of economics do hold true!

[mlc2000]

if there were a speed train system across the GTA this would virtually eliminate almost all of the need for cars.

And does this train drive me right to my office?

And can I catch it when I need to go see my customers?

[mlc2000]

eliminating fees completely is not feasible, but what IS feasible is for public transit companies to hire proper economists who can explain that continuously hiking the fees will only deter people from using the service. I rather opt for the even more environmentally friendly walk or bike ride instead..

the TTC even prevents people from stocking up on tokens before a price hike, his only causes customers to get upset, and stay away!

Making it no-cost is not feasible; then it will be fueled with tax dollars which can be as inefficiently spent as the current funding and income, instead the system should be revamped such that it can run at lower cost to the consumer. lower fees= more users = more profits.
yes, it is oversimplified, but the basic concepts of economics do hold true!


Do your homework.

1. Raising fares has nothing to do with a drop in ridership. Only evidence is that there may be a 1-2 day boycott, or avoidance of TTC, but after that, the user can see its still much cheaper than a car and alot warmer and dryer than a bicycle.The biggest drops in ridership came during recessions.


2. Look up price inelasticity of demand, or better yet ,ask an economist.)

The price of TTC has to go much higher, before the consumer will opt for a different method of transportation. Then the consumer must be willing to trade off comfort/security for lower price.
Or as the price rises to meet the cost of a more comfortable mode of transportation, user may opt to 'step up' to that level.

2. We live in a country where its only warm enough to ride a bike 5 months a year.

3. Fueling it with tax dollars sounds like it never affects you. But it does. More importantly, it affects people who don't even live close to Toronto. How would you feel about a tax increase to pay for the Thunder Bay Transit system?


There are so many variables which affect the price of TTC.
Like when the price of diesel for buses rises from 50cents /litre to 90cents per litre in 5 yrs.
Like when the price of electricity for subways triples in 5 years.

lower fees= more users = more profits
or as an economist would write it
lower price=more consumption=more profit.

This only holds true if the cost of transportation is zero, just one of the scenarios that economics prof's like to throw at you.