What are your Green household tips?

[Ryan]

To kick off the forum, share any green tips for use around the house!

[seb33]

I don't know if this qualifies, its more for the garden/lawn. Its pretty easy to go organic when fertilizing your lawn. Instead of chemical fertilizers I just use soybean meal or corn gluten meal. You can purchase it from feed stores (its used for animal feed by farmers) and you can sprinkle it on by hand or apply with a drop or rotary spreader. I apply soybean meal at about 20 lbs per 1000 sq. feet of lawn. I get it as a 90 lb. bag for $20 from a place just south of newmarket. Good for the environment and the kids can help spread it!

[mangoman]

I just switched to this detergent and it doesn't cost any more than the other ones out there. I think I picked it up for about $5.50 for the 32-load size at Loblaws the other day.

Biodegradable, no dyes, phosphate-free, plant-based and apparently can get out blood stains! :twisted:

Link to the print ad:

http://www.brandpower.com/Upages/406_Mbrand%20Print%20Essent%20ENG%20-FINAL.pdf

[sunnybono]

I don't know if this qualifies, its more for the garden/lawn. Its pretty easy to go organic when fertilizing your lawn. Instead of chemical fertilizers I just use soybean meal or corn gluten meal. You can purchase it from feed stores (its used for animal feed by farmers) and you can sprinkle it on by hand or apply with a drop or rotary spreader. I apply soybean meal at about 20 lbs per 1000 sq. feet of lawn. I get it as a 90 lb. bag for $20 from a place just south of newmarket. Good for the environment and the kids can help spread it!

Sounds interesting. What does Soybean meal or corn gluten meal do for your lawn anyways????

sk

[coolCAT]

[QUOTE=mangoman;5711652]can get out blood stains! :twisted:

QUOTE]

Really? Wonder why you need that...

[CurryToa]

when you use up all the soap and shampoo, add water into the container and use the rest of it =D

hmmm the most basic one... turn off lights even if you are leaving for 1 second, it was proven that you save energy that way =O i guess it also works on television and other electronics =]

[3weddings]

For the most part, I use only Water and Vinegar to clean.

I also own a Eureka EnviroSteamer to clean with only water...love that thing!

[sfu_lifer]

Don't use a desktop. Use a laptop instead especially when you're doing long downloading sessions.
Turn off everything if you're not using it. Every little watt counts.
As much as possible, don't use or buy products with plastic or styrofoam packaging.
Wear heavier clothing in the winter around the house and drop your thermostat a degree or two.
Keeping a lawn green is one of the most wasteful use of north american resources (water + fertilizer + pesticides).

[st7860]

rumour has it that unplugging your power bars saves a lot of electricity that is otherwise wasted.

[brunes]

rumour has it that unplugging your power bars saves a lot of electricity that is otherwise wasted.

I don't buy this - when not in use the only thing in your power bar draining energy is the LED light, which is miniscule.

Here are my green money-saving tips

- Buy programmable thermostats, and set them to turn the heat down 5 degrees at night to 15c while you sleep, and down to 12 degrees or so when no one is home during the day. Set them to start to heat back up to standard 20c a half hour before you arrive home. You won't know the difference. They will pay for themselves in one winter alone.

- Keep curtains closed during the night and open during the day in winter, and the inverse in the summer. You'd be surprised how much this simple thing can save on your heating and cooling bills.

- Turn down the heat 1-2 degrees and get a pair of slippers. Your feet act as a themrostat for your whole body. Warm feet == warm body, cold feet == cold body.

- Don't use a pot larger than you need to when cooking, and don't put in more water than you need to when making things like pasta. You only need enough boiling water to cover the pasta. 1/2 the water to boil will require 1/2 the energy and 1/2 the time.

- Buy CFL light bulbs (DUH).

- Investigate the various government programs available in your area to get your home an energy retrofit at very little to no cost to you.

- Here is a big hidden one - when you go away for more than a day, unplug (or flip off the power bar for) your TV / DVD player / receiver / cable box / PC / anything that doesn't have a clock you'll need to reset. If you are going away for a week or longer, unplug the one with clocks too. All these little micro-leeches are costing you tens of dollars a month in phantom power.

- Instead of leaving it on 24/7, set your PC to go into suspend mode if it hasn't been used for an hour. it will use almost no power, and resume form suspend in seconds. It will not be a noticeable bother.

- Don't keep USB perephrials you hardly ever use (webcam, card reader, bluetooth dongle, etc.), plugged into your PC all the time, as these are always eating power as well (especially the bluetooth dongle). You can plug them in when you need them, that is why USB was invented in the first place.

[Deal]

http://www.blackle.com/
The numbers sound impressive, especially when you consider how little effort it takes on your part.


I'm also keen on trying out Eco Lawn (http://admin.wildflowerfarm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=E) for the yard.
- Less mowing as it's slow growing.
- longer roots makes it hardier needs less watering
- No fertilizer required

Other's I'm still working out the cost benefits:
- On demand water heaters: no more tanks.
- LED lights. Long life, ridiculously low power, but oh, so expensive now. I really like the low voltage wiring aspect. No permits required to wire it.

[st7860]

i meant the black power bricks. even if nothing is plugged into them, they eat power.

[joo]

When making rice, pasta or anything else that involves boiling water:

1. Use a kettle to boil the water. Then pour the water into the pot on the stove. It's much more efficient since no heat is lost from the sides of the element.

2. After you add the rice / pasta, turn the heat down to low. You just need to keep the water at 100C to cook you food. Anything higher and you're just boiling away the water faster.

[Deal]

I don't buy this - when not in use the only thing in your power bar draining energy is the LED light, which is miniscule.
Supposedly, it's all those adaptor blocks that are drawing the power. I kinda see the sense in that, those things are always warm.


- Keep curtains closed during the night and open during the day in winter, and the inverse in the summer. You'd be surprised how much this simple thing can save on your heating and cooling bills.
Even opening them by day and closing by night makes a difference.




- Investigate the various government programs available in your area to get your home an energy retrofit at very little to no cost to you.

I saw this government booth at the recent Home Show:
www.ecoaction.gc.ca

It has all kinds of grants and rebates (http://www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/retrofit-homes/retrofit-qualify-grant.cfm?attr=4#eligible) for retrofitting a home.





- Instead of leaving it on 24/7, set your PC to go into suspend mode if it hasn't been used for an hour. it will use almost no power, and resume form suspend in seconds. It will not be a noticeable bother.

You could save about 50% (about $35/year/PC) according to this Microsoft article (http://www.microsoft.com/smallbusiness/resources/technology/hardware/do_you_need_to_turn_off_your_pc_at_night.mspx)

[brunes]

http://www.blackle.com/
The numbers sound impressive, especially when you consider how little effort it takes on your part.


A note Blackle does absolutely nothing if you have an LCD monitor. it will only save you power if you have a CRT.


I'm also keen on trying out Eco Lawn (http://admin.wildflowerfarm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=E) for the yard.
- Less mowing as it's slow growing.
- longer roots makes it hardier needs less watering
- No fertilizer required


Wow this look sinteresting. My first question would be how does it stand up to weeds? Traditionally slow-growing grasses are not very weed-resistant. Also what would the impact be of removing my current lawn just to replace it... But for a new build this would be the way to go!


Other's I'm still working out the cost benefits:
- On demand water heaters: no more tanks.I am in the process of investigating this one too. There is a lot of conflicting data. Some people say they save money (cause you don't have to heat water in the tank), others say they actually cost money (because it costs so much to heat the water rapidly, and modern water heaters are so well insulated).

I have yet to find an unbiased review.

[seb33]

Soybean meal or corn gluten meal are natural sources of nitrogen and are high in protein. The theory is that instead of giving your grass a quick 'fix' of chemical nitrogen (that can burn the grass if you overdo it), by using natural fertilizers you are actually feeding the microbes in the soil which in turn create a great environment for grass to grow. I learned all about it at the organic lawn care forum on the gardenweb website. They have a great FAQ page all about it. And it is also relatively inexpensive to do if you purchase the grains in bulk from a feed store.

[jayk]

1. I second soy for protein. Kashi is great cereal for those who workout. You don't need to eat a lot of meat or buy those protein shake powders, Kashi cereal has a lot of protein.

2. Refuse plastic bags when buying groceries. I do this all the time. I'm thinking of storing an empty box in my trunk in the future for this.

3. Have a bin for styrofoam/plastic forks-spoons-knives/ type 6 plastic fruit boxes etc. in the garage. Dump in a local recycling facility when you have accumulated enough.

4. Store paper in a plastic bag and recycle on your lawn when done.

5. Turn off lights when not in use.

6. Buy shades for windows in summer so that you don't waste energy trying to expel all the sunlight you've absorbed...not like you're gonna use all that light anyways...you'd be surprised how much money you'd save on your electric bill from A/C costs.

7. Recycle your equipment ie. computers, fridges, stoves, etc. sometimes companies will do it for you (look on RFD for more info). These things release a lot of pollutants.

8. Piss in a bottle and pour on neighbor's lawn, saves water and extra urine to take care of...just kidding...

[brunes]

2. Refuse plastic bags when buying groceries. I do this all the time. I'm thinking of storing an empty box in my trunk in the future for this.

Important to remember here is to refuse them IN FAVOUR OF either fabric or reusable plastic bags. Paper bags are even worse for the environment than plastic since they use much more energy (and therefore are the result of much more greenhouse gases) to create.

[jeall]

I've started composting this year and now use cloth bags for my groceries. We always recycle cans & bottles and tin cans/glass jars/newspapers & cardboard in the blue box. It is really amazing how little garbage there is now to throw out with all the recycling.
Every little bit helps!

[st7860]

drink tap water.

[Dynomite2910]

I am in the process of investigating this one too. There is a lot of conflicting data. Some people say they save money (cause you don't have to heat water in the tank), others say they actually cost money (because it costs so much to heat the water rapidly, and modern water heaters are so well insulated).

I have yet to find an unbiased review.

When we moved into our house 4 years ago, I spent sometime investigating the possibility of installing a combination solar and tankless system.

What I would do is use my existing tank as the storage unit for the solar part of the system and then put the tankless water heater after it to get the water to full temp.

Basically the system described at this govy site but instead of a second water heater tank to get the water to full temp you would use a tankless water heater for that job. Basically, the solar part of the system gets the water as hot as it can and the tankless heater only needs to heat it from there to the desire temp.

http://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/index.asp?CaId=141&PgId=750#Solar

There is a company in Halifax that sells the solar systems. They are under $5000:
http://www.thermo-dynamics.com/solar_boiler.html

Also, don't forget, one the huge advantages of a tankless water heater is that you never run out of hot. If you have 4 or 5 people in a house, it might be a big selling factor.

Unfortunately, because our subsidized hydro prices in Ontario are so low, I could not justify taking out a working hot water system to install a greener one. I calculated it would take about 10yrs to pay it self off if you are looking at the costs alone.

If Ontario Hydro charged people what it truly cost them to produce electricity then it would make much more sense to invest in these types of systems.

D.

[eelfliw]

Don't use the electric or gas clothes dryer. Hang clothes to dry.

Don't use the dishwasher. Learn to use a bucketful of soapy water to wash dishes.

[firehazard]

In the winter time, when i do dishes in the sink. I leave the hot water in the sink until it cools down to room temp. No point in wasting the heat, and the humidity makes the house feel warmer than it actually is. I don't do this in the summer, humuidity is not fun in the summer.

Same goes for a bath, I leave the water in the tub until the water reaches room temp.

Not sure how much it "saves", but at least it doesn't waste energy by going down the drain.

[Tasha]

We cut down a lot on unnecessary paper towel usage by purchasing a 30-pack of white 12" x 12" cotton washcloths from Wal-mart for $5.88.

I just keep about 5 or so under the sink and use these instead of paper towels for wiping up little spills, drying hands, etc. When a cloth looks like hell, it's time to drop it in with the laundry. When they're really really messed up beyond salvaging, they get relegated to garage or outdoor use.

Now we keep the paper towel usage down to really icky things like raw meat messes or stuff you wouldn't want washed with the regular laundry. After a week, we noticed that the papertowel roll was still pretty full!

[beerbaron105]

1. I second soy for protein. Kashi is great cereal for those who workout. You don't need to eat a lot of meat or buy those protein shake powders, Kashi cereal has a lot of protein.



soy protein has been proven to reduce testosterone in males by 17%

ill stick to meat- thank you very much!

[gman]

Same goes for a bath, I leave the water in the tub until the water reaches room temp.


How about don't use the tub? That should save water. If you mean you are taking a shower in a tub but keep the water, that will make you tub dirty fast and you will need wash it more often.

[brunes]

Don't use the dishwasher. Learn to use a bucketful of soapy water to wash dishes.

Sorry - I do a lot of green things, but I will not compromise on the dishwasher. That thing literally saved my relationship with my wife :P

Besides - when used on water miser cycle it only uses the equivalent of around 2 sinkfulls of water. With the amount of dishes it does in a load I would use at least 3-4 sinkfulls to wash the same amount.

[brunes]

How about don't use the tub? That should save water. If you mean you are taking a shower in a tub but keep the water, that will make you tub dirty fast and you will need wash it more often.

Yep shower uses much less water than a bath. Especially if it is a low-flow shower head.

[brunes]

We cut down a lot on unnecessary paper towel usage by purchasing a 30-pack of white 12" x 12" cotton washcloths from Wal-mart for $5.88.

I just keep about 5 or so under the sink and use these instead of paper towels for wiping up little spills, drying hands, etc. When a cloth looks like hell, it's time to drop it in with the laundry. When they're really really messed up beyond salvaging, they get relegated to garage or outdoor use.

Now we keep the paper towel usage down to really icky things like raw meat messes or stuff you wouldn't want washed with the regular laundry. After a week, we noticed that the papertowel roll was still pretty full!

Just FYI - if you have kids of elderly people around you should reconsider the "looks like hell" policy. Bacteria collects and runs rampant on damp wash clothes used to clean up spills.

You should not be waiting until it looks "like hell" before throwing in the wash - a washcloth should be cleaned after each cleanup task.

[notanexpert]

...
You should not be waiting until it looks "like hell" before throwing in the wash - a washcloth should be cleaned after each cleanup task.

However, that defeats the whole purpose of using a washcloth, because washing it after every spill is way more energy intensive than just using a paper towel.

[almostfreeman]

In addition to other measures already mentioned I have stopped using plastic wrap. I store leftovers in glass containers with lids. I try not to buy anything made from petrochemicals. I have to admit that I still use ziplock bags for freezer storage :(.

[eelfliw]

Sorry - I do a lot of green things, but I will not compromise on the dishwasher. That thing literally saved my relationship with my wife :P

Besides - when used on water miser cycle it only uses the equivalent of around 2 sinkfulls of water. With the amount of dishes it does in a load I would use at least 3-4 sinkfulls to wash the same amount.

The savings of not using dishwasher comes not from reducing water usage but from reducing electricity usage associated with the water pump, motor and heating element.

Check your dishwasher's power consumption rating. If it's 600watts, then it's the equivalent of turning on 6 X 100watt bulbs for the duration of the dishwashing cycle.

[brunes]

However, that defeats the whole purpose of using a washcloth, because washing it after every spill is way more energy intensive than just using a paper towel.

Well then use paper towel if that is how you see it. It's one thing to save the planet but you shouldn't risk sacrificing your faimly's health to do so.

From my point of view water is more of a renewable resource than paper towel (whose creation requires a bunch of energy) so I don't really agree.

[brunes]

The savings of not using dishwasher comes not from reducing water usage but from reducing electricity usage associated with the water pump, motor and heating element.

Check your dishwasher's power consumption rating. If it's 600watts, then it's the equivalent of turning on 6 X 100watt bulbs for the duration of the dishwashing cycle.

My washing cycle only takes 1/2 hour or so so I don't think that is very much. It probably would cost more to heat up the 3 sinkfulls of hot water I am saving.

[st7860]

My washing cycle only takes 1/2 hour or so so I don't think that is very much. It probably would cost more to heat up the 3 sinkfulls of hot water I am saving.

electricity usually costs 7 to 10 cents per KWH

so that means the dishwasher, will cost 7 to 10 cents to run if you use the heater cycle, or 5 to 7 cents to run if you use the air dry cycle.

a dishwasher is not a particularly wasteful device if you only run it WHEN ITS FULL.

[deep]

drink tap water.

Nice one, st!

This went by so quickly and quietly, and it is one of the best points in this entire thread. We have a great, high efficiency distribution system for perfectly good water that requires no plastic or energy inputs for packaging, and no energy inputs for trash or recycling.

DRINK TAP WATER! Say it with me now!

[PCDawg]

In addition to other measures already mentioned I have stopped using plastic wrap. I store leftovers in glass containers with lids. I try not to buy anything made from petrochemicals. I have to admit that I still use ziplock bags for freezer storage :(.

Same here....a box of medium/large ziplocs last a long time. When i buy meat, I split up the package and split them into meal portions and into ziplocs and freeze them.

When they are used, I just rinse the ziploc and put it back into the freezer until i get more meat to store them in.

I have changed all my bulbs to CF and soon to change install dimmers on my recessed halogen lighting.

Great thread and some good advice to conserve and help save the environment.

[jr!]

Some of the things I've done:
- use mostly Vinegar instead of stinky, chemical laden cleaners. I use it on my hardwood floors & in the bathrooms
- Vinegar instead of Jet Dry in the Dishwasher
- Use Terracycle's "Worm Poop" eco friendly fertilizer on my lawns.
- Vinegar (sometimes mixed with salt & dish soap) in a spray bottle to kill weeds.
- I use microfiber clothes while cleaning, a bit of water & a micro fiber cloth= no stinky cleaning chemicals.
- re-usable cloth bags for grocery shopping plus a collapsible basket.

[spud2004]

The savings of not using dishwasher comes not from reducing water usage but from reducing electricity usage associated with the water pump, motor and heating element.

Check your dishwasher's power consumption rating. If it's 600watts, then it's the equivalent of turning on 6 X 100watt bulbs for the duration of the dishwashing cycle.

I read in Ecoholic that the dishawacher is actually better then hand washing but I guess it depends on how you do it.

[jayk]

Recycle your plastic bags at a local Dominion's. Toronto still does not recycle plastic bags like Hamilton does.

[epiphony]

I've cut my monthly MW/h consumption by a whopping 30-40%, and my bi-monthly bill by $40 by turning off my electric water heater before my shower every morning, and turning it back on when I need it. I turn it off by tripping the breaker.

It's amazing how inefficient and expensive electric water heaters are compared to natural gas heated ones. But for those of us who have no choice and are forced to rent, this is a good solution.

[eelfliw]

My washing cycle only takes 1/2 hour or so so I don't think that is very much. It probably would cost more to heat up the 3 sinkfulls of hot water I am saving.
You use hot water to wash dishes? That's a huge waste of energy.

Use cold water for dishes. In fact, I use cold water to wash clothes too.

The key to getting greasy stains off with cold water is soaking. Not hot water. For example, I wash my BBQ's wire brush by soaking it in soapy, cold water for 3 days. After 3 days, give the brush a good shake and all the dirt falls off.

The same for clothing. Put a full load of clothes into the washer, add cold water & appropriate amount of detergent, agitate for a minute and turn machine off. Let it soak for 24 hours and then resume wash cycle. Clothes will come out as clean as if washed in hot water.

[eelfliw]

I read in Ecoholic that the dishawacher is actually better then hand washing but I guess it depends on how you do it.

I don't see how that's possible. The process of manufacturing a dishwasher, from mining raw material to stamping sheets of steel to forming the metal into a dishwasher and shipping it to your home. How can that take less energy than 2 plastic buckets used in hand washing dishes?

There's also the ongoing costs. Dishwasher detergent is very strong stuff compared to hand washing detergent. I don't see how flushing that into the drain can be any better than flushing hand wash detergent?

Finally, hand washing takes no electricity. Dishwasher must use electricity.

I wonder how Ecoholic did its calculations???

[Nikita]

I don't see how that's possible. The process of manufacturing a dishwasher, from mining raw material to stamping sheets of steel to forming the metal into a dishwasher and shipping it to your home. How can that take less energy than 2 plastic buckets used in hand washing dishes?

There's also the ongoing costs. Dishwasher detergent is very strong stuff compared to hand washing detergent. I don't see how flushing that into the drain can be any better than flushing hand wash detergent?

Finally, hand washing takes no electricity. Dishwasher must use electricity.

I wonder how Ecoholic did its calculations???

I assume their calculations are based on USE of the dishwasher, not the manufacture of it.

[brunes]

You use hot water to wash dishes? That's a huge waste of energy.

Use cold water for dishes. In fact, I use cold water to wash clothes too.

The key to getting greasy stains off with cold water is soaking. Not hot water. For example, I wash my BBQ's wire brush by soaking it in soapy, cold water for 3 days. After 3 days, give the brush a good shake and all the dirt falls off.

The same for clothing. Put a full load of clothes into the washer, add cold water & appropriate amount of detergent, agitate for a minute and turn machine off. Let it soak for 24 hours and then resume wash cycle. Clothes will come out as clean as if washed in hot water.

Soaking dishes in cold water will do nothing but foster massive bacteria growth on them.

Nothing disgusts me more than people who leave dishes in cold water to soak in the sink.

I would hate to see the biofilm on your dishes after you are done cleaning them with cold water!

[gman]

I don't see how that's possible. The process of manufacturing a dishwasher, from mining raw material to stamping sheets of steel to forming the metal into a dishwasher and shipping it to your home. How can that take less energy than 2 plastic buckets used in hand washing dishes?

There's also the ongoing costs. Dishwasher detergent is very strong stuff compared to hand washing detergent. I don't see how flushing that into the drain can be any better than flushing hand wash detergent?

Finally, hand washing takes no electricity. Dishwasher must use electricity.

I wonder how Ecoholic did its calculations???

First, as it was said, it is about the usage of dish washer.

If a family uses dish washer, usually, they will do that in one load at night for the stuff they use for all 3 meals.

If a family does hand wash, typically, they will do that after each meal. Otherwise, they can't use the sink for the next meal.

Most people will use more hot water to wash dishes for all 3 meals than the hot water used by one load of (fill up) dish washer. The theory is the energy spend to heat the water plus the water that wastes by hand washing is greater than dish washer. If my estimation is correct, 3 cycle of water used by dish washer is the volume of one sink of water.

However, if you can really save your water to do hand wash or somehow wash your dish of 3 meals once per day, I suspect you win. That is if you can use one sink of water to wash the dish used in 3 meals, you win in the water wasted portion of equation.

And, using cold water to wash dish is just plain not clean unless you really want to use with a lot of dish detergent and more water.

[eelfliw]

Soaking dishes in cold water will do nothing but foster massive bacteria growth on them.

Nothing disgusts me more than people who leave dishes in cold water to soak in the sink.

I would hate to see the biofilm on your dishes after you are done cleaning them with cold water!
I think you've misinterpreted what I said about soaking.

Soaking is not washing. Soaking simply loosens up tough dirt that won't scrape off easily. After soaking in cold water, you still have to wash it.

As for cleaning "biofilm" with hot water, think of it this way. Many seafood must be washed in cold water. Washing seafood in hot water will result in seafood being cooked during the washing process. Now, if you consider cold water insufficient for cleaning, then I hope you haven't ate any seafood all your life because you've been eating dirty seafood.

[eelfliw]

However, if you can really save your water to do hand wash or somehow wash your dish of 3 meals once per day, I suspect you win. That is if you can use one sink of water to wash the dish used in 3 meals, you win in the water wasted portion of equation.

And, using cold water to wash dish is just plain not clean unless you really want to use with a lot of dish detergent and more water.
If you've been to restaurants in Hong Kong, you see this happen all the time (except restaurants change water much more frequently because they have more dishes). It's called staged washing. Dirty dishes are first scraped to remove solids. Then, the dishes are piled into a bucket of soapy cold water (no need to completely fill the bucket as water level will rise when more dishes are added). This is the pre-soak stage.

Once enough dishes have been accumulated, remove one dish at a time from the pre-soak bucket and wash in the wash bucket with cold soapy water. Again, no need to fill the bucket full. 1/2 bucket will do. This is the wash stage.

After washing, tilt the dish to pour out as much soapy water as possible, and dip the dish into a bucket of clean water to wash away soap. This bucket should be almost full. And this is the rinse stage. Finally, air dry the dishes on a rack. Many dishwashers uses heat at this stage which uses up a lot of power.

With 2 buckets of water, you can clean a whole days' worth of dishes for a typical home and not use up any sink space. The keys are to pre-soak and to drain as much soapy water as possible when transferring out of stage 1 & 2 to keep the soapy water in the original stage and keep the rinse water in stage 3 clean.

Restaurants in HK have been doing this for ages as waste has been kept to a minimal and many people grew up eating out of these restaurants. If there's a problem with this system, people there will know first.

Total material required (fixed cost) for this sytem : 3 plastic pails
Total running cost : 2 buckets of cold water every day + detergent

As for dishwasher, the fixed cost (all the metal, manufacturing, etc.) can't compare to 3 plastic pails. And running cost is definitely more because in addition to water & detergent, there's also electricity.

[Gidget]

Washing with cold water is fine and even rinsing with cold water is fine but there is one ingredient you are missing and that is; some chlorine in the final rinse water. This is necessary to kill any viruses or bacteria when washing with cold water or inadequate water temperature. The chlorine is required as per the food safety regulations here in Ontario for washing dishes by hand in restaurants.

[canabiz]

We usually wash dishes by hand

When we have a big party, we use the dishwashers, i would say maybe once or twice a month

I rented for 13 years after I arrived in Canada and we never had dishwashers until now. I don't think we contracted a lot of *germs* or *bacteria* on the dishes that we washed by hand

Things could have been worse.

[gman]

If you've been to restaurants in Hong Kong, you see this happen all the time (except restaurants change water much more frequently because they have more dishes). It's called staged washing. Dirty dishes are first scraped to remove solids. Then, the dishes are piled into a bucket of soapy cold water (no need to completely fill the bucket as water level will rise when more dishes are added). This is the pre-soak stage.

Once enough dishes have been accumulated, remove one dish at a time from the pre-soak bucket and wash in the wash bucket with cold soapy water. Again, no need to fill the bucket full. 1/2 bucket will do. This is the wash stage.

After washing, tilt the dish to pour out as much soapy water as possible, and dip the dish into a bucket of clean water to wash away soap. This bucket should be almost full. And this is the rinse stage. Finally, air dry the dishes on a rack. Many dishwashers uses heat at this stage which uses up a lot of power.

With 2 buckets of water, you can clean a whole days' worth of dishes for a typical home and not use up any sink space. The keys are to pre-soak and to drain as much soapy water as possible when transferring out of stage 1 & 2 to keep the soapy water in the original stage and keep the rinse water in stage 3 clean.

Restaurants in HK have been doing this for ages as waste has been kept to a minimal and many people grew up eating out of these restaurants. If there's a problem with this system, people there will know first.

Total material required (fixed cost) for this sytem : 3 plastic pails
Total running cost : 2 buckets of cold water every day + detergent

As for dishwasher, the fixed cost (all the metal, manufacturing, etc.) can't compare to 3 plastic pails. And running cost is definitely more because in addition to water & detergent, there's also electricity.

Are you saying you are doing stage washing at home? So, you have 3 buckets in your kitchen to keep dirty dishes. I guess you are okay with the Hong Kong system that go through a day of restaurant load of dishes with only one bucket of clean water. That is also the reason when the old folks in Hong Kong go to restaurant, the first things they do was to clean the cup and dishes themselves.

Cold water in Hong Kong is warm water in Canada. Cold water in Canada is freeze water in Hong Kong.
If you wash your greasy dishes in winter with cold water here, the chance is you will have a surprise one day although global warming may help you to prevent the problem.

[CSK'sMom]

If you've been to restaurants in Hong Kong, you see this happen all the time (except restaurants change water much more frequently because they have more dishes). It's called staged washing. Dirty dishes are first scraped to remove solids. Then, the dishes are piled into a bucket of soapy cold water (no need to completely fill the bucket as water level will rise when more dishes are added). This is the pre-soak stage.

Once enough dishes have been accumulated, remove one dish at a time from the pre-soak bucket and wash in the wash bucket with cold soapy water. Again, no need to fill the bucket full. 1/2 bucket will do. This is the wash stage.

After washing, tilt the dish to pour out as much soapy water as possible, and dip the dish into a bucket of clean water to wash away soap. This bucket should be almost full. And this is the rinse stage. Finally, air dry the dishes on a rack. Many dishwashers uses heat at this stage which uses up a lot of power.

With 2 buckets of water, you can clean a whole days' worth of dishes for a typical home and not use up any sink space. The keys are to pre-soak and to drain as much soapy water as possible when transferring out of stage 1 & 2 to keep the soapy water in the original stage and keep the rinse water in stage 3 clean.

Restaurants in HK have been doing this for ages as waste has been kept to a minimal and many people grew up eating out of these restaurants. If there's a problem with this system, people there will know first.

Total material required (fixed cost) for this sytem : 3 plastic pails
Total running cost : 2 buckets of cold water every day + detergent

As for dishwasher, the fixed cost (all the metal, manufacturing, etc.) can't compare to 3 plastic pails. And running cost is definitely more because in addition to water & detergent, there's also electricity.

Hmmm... ok, assuming each bucket is a 5 gallon pail (awfully small for the average family though) that is 15 gallons of water a day to do dishes. My dishwasher only uses 6 gallons of water, I don't use the heated dry cycle either. One load a day for a family of 5. I know my dishes are clean and sanitized and no one who eats or drinks from our dishes is going to come down with a foodborne illness or anything else from unsanitary dishes. :confused:

[canabiz]

Hmmm... ok, assuming each bucket is a 5 gallon pail (awfully small for the average family though) that is 15 gallons of water a day to do dishes. My dishwasher only uses 6 gallons of water, I don't use the heated dry cycle either. One load a day for a family of 5. I know my dishes are clean and sanitized and no one who eats or drinks from our dishes is going to come down with a foodborne illness or anything else from unsanitary dishes. :confused:

CSK, I won't debate on the energy saving parts of washing dishes by hand and/or washing dishes with dishwashers, to each his own.

I, however, don't think, washing dishes by hand will let you get sick with illness and things of that nature as your post seems to imply. Maybe if you go to the restaurants and the folks at the back do that then there might be a chance but personally for us, we always washed dishes by hand before with warm water and good doses of detergent. We rinsed the dishes thoroughly after and let them dry by hanging them in a tray that we washed regularly as well

Like i said before, we have been washing dishes by hand for as long as I could remember and we are still going strong, or at least that's what our doctors told us!

I won't comment on eelfilw's methods, I just want to drive home the point that washing dishes by hand is perfectly acceptable and will not make you sick if you do it properly.

Cheers!

[CSK'sMom]

Canabiz, my post was specifically aimed at eelfliw's, that is why I quoted his post only referencing "washing" dishes in buckets of cold water. ;) There is nothing wrong with washing dishes in hot soapy water, it's the cold water, bucket method that I personally have issues with when it comes to sanitizing.

[Initial_C]

Soaking for an hour or so after dinner isn't such a big deal. and it does help scrub the dirt away.

Conversely, what I like to do is wash first with soapy water and put it in one sink with the water off and then rinse it all at once. So the water isn't going when it's not neccessary.

[brunes]

Soaking for an hour or so after dinner isn't such a big deal. and it does help scrub the dirt away.

Conversely, what I like to do is wash first with soapy water and put it in one sink with the water off and then rinse it all at once. So the water isn't going when it's not neccessary.

if you soak dishes for an hour after dinner, then drain that water and wash them in hot water, you're using 2 times the water. Also if you do that after every meal you are using probably 5 times the amount of water and energy overall that you would use if you just use the dishwasher once a week.

People seem to think dishwashers are massive energy wasters - they are not. They use a very very small amount of hot water for the amount of dishes they clean. They get away with this because it is recycled and blasted onto the dishes over and over again. Your dishwasher uses the same water for the whole cleaning cycle it is not like it is constantly taking water out of the intake.

It uses much less energy to run a pump to blast the water on the dishes than it does to re-heat 6-8L of water every night for hand washing.

[st7860]

if you soak dishes for an hour after dinner, then drain that water and wash them in hot water, you're using 2 times the water. Also if you do that after every meal you are using probably 5 times the amount of water and energy overall that you would use if you just use the dishwasher once a week.

People seem to think dishwashers are massive energy wasters - they are not. They use a very very small amount of hot water for the amount of dishes they clean. They get away with this because it is recycled and blasted onto the dishes over and over again. Your dishwasher uses the same water for the whole cleaning cycle it is not like it is constantly taking water out of the intake.

It uses much less energy to run a pump to blast the water on the dishes than it does to re-heat 6-8L of water every night for hand washing.

Yes. if you use your dishwasher only when its PACKED FULL and use plenty of detergent, its a very efficient device.

[canabiz]

Yes. if you use your dishwasher only when its PACKED FULL and use plenty of detergent, its a very efficient device.

Which might not sit well with my wife because she's a neat freak. She doesn't want to have dishes lying around and whatnot, plus if you put all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and wait for them to get full before using the dishwasher then you may run out of clean dishes

I know it may sound trivial but we actually don't have a lot of plates and bowls, maybe we can buy some more but for the time being, after we finish dinner, we wash the dishes right away.

[gman]

Which might not sit well with my wife because she's a neat freak. She doesn't want to have dishes lying around and whatnot, plus if you put all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and wait for them to get full before using the dishwasher then you may run out of clean dishes

I know it may sound trivial but we actually don't have a lot of plates and bowls, maybe we can buy some more but for the time being, after we finish dinner, we wash the dishes right away.

That is why we have a lot of dishes, bowls, cups, forks, knifes, spoons, .... If you clean your cup after drinking milk, you need water. If you clean you cup after drinking juice, you need water. What we do is the dirty cups goes direct to the dish washer. No rinse.

No, I can't do that once per week because it is filled up in a day.

[colaaike]

I bought 'Pink Solution' at Costco. It is supposed to be eco friendly and clean anything. Haven't used it yet. Anyone else?

[Nikita]

I have 3 full sets of dishes (which is kinda funny considering I rarely cook) plus some cool pieces that I only bought cuz they were cool and funky, like from Pier 1, Ikea, Bowrings. So it's easy for me to wait till my dishwasher is full before I use it. In fact there's a side benefit....most of my dishes wouldn't ever get used if I had to keep them in the sink and wash by hand. And since I don't cook much I only need to use the dishwasher maybe once a week or longer. Admittedly, this is something I too will not compromise on. I don't have the time or the inclination to wash by hand. And I know I'm saving energy doing it this way.

[dark169]

I am in the process of investigating this one too. There is a lot of conflicting data. Some people say they save money (cause you don't have to heat water in the tank), others say they actually cost money (because it costs so much to heat the water rapidly, and modern water heaters are so well insulated).

You don't need a review you can do the math yourself:

The fact that the water is being heated faster has no effect on the energy required. It takes a little over 4 joules to heat 1 gram of water 1 degree C, rate doesn't matter, it makes things more complicated but not more energy intensive.

A typical water heater has 80% efficiency in that 80% of the gases energy is put into the water and 20% goes up the stack. No where in this efficiency does it account for losses after the burner turns off. So when the burner turns on when your at work 20% goes up the stack and 80% is spent slowly heating your utility room.

A tankless water heater can range from 80% to 90+% (if its a condensing type) so you use less energy per gram per degree.

Of course you need to look at how much hot-water your using and how much you pay for gas to see its a good economic choice but it will be a better environmental one.

[brunes]

You don't need a review you can do the math yourself:

The fact that the water is being heated faster has no effect on the energy required. It takes a little over 4 joules to heat 1 gram of water 1 degree C, rate doesn't matter, it makes things more complicated but not more energy intensive.

A typical water heater has 80% efficiency in that 80% of the gases energy is put into the water and 20% goes up the stack. No where in this efficiency does it account for losses after the burner turns off. So when the burner turns on when your at work 20% goes up the stack and 80% is spent slowly heating your utility room.

A tankless water heater can range from 80% to 90+% (if its a condensing type) so you use less energy per gram per degree.

Of course you need to look at how much hot-water your using and how much you pay for gas to see its a good economic choice but it will be a better environmental one.

It isn't that simple though. The rate of heating does matter, because the higher the rate of heating needed, the higher the temperature of the elements has to be, which will invariably lead to additional heat leakage that is not used to heat the water. Water can only absorb heat at a certain rate, surplus heat is then wasted.

Also, I don't have gas hot water, I have electric. Electric hot water tanks are more energy-efficient than gas heated ones, but I do not know the same for electric tankless systems.

[notanexpert]

It isn't that simple though. The rate of heating does matter, because the higher the rate of heating needed, the higher the temperature of the elements has to be, which will invariably lead to additional heat leakage that is not used to heat the water. Water can only absorb heat at a certain rate, surplus heat is then wasted.
...
This is the first I've heard of this. What is the maximum rate that water can absorb heat? Do you have a source?

When you splash water onto something very hot, like metal glowing red-hot, it vapourises pretty much instantly, which makes me think that there is really no limit in how fast water can heat up, at least for the practical purposes of household hot water heaters...

[eelfliw]

Are you saying you are doing stage washing at home? So, you have 3 buckets in your kitchen to keep dirty dishes. I guess you are okay with the Hong Kong system that go through a day of restaurant load of dishes with only one bucket of clean water. That is also the reason when the old folks in Hong Kong go to restaurant, the first things they do was to clean the cup and dishes themselves.
We have the luxury of having 2 sinks in the kitchen (one on the island and one on the counter next to wall) so we don't use buckets. But we use the same stage wash system. First, fill the soap basin with cold water/soap and put dishes throughout the day in that basin. At the end of the night, we drain the soak water from the soap basin, take out the dishes from the basin, fill with cold water/soap in the soap basin and just cold water in rinse basin. Then, just wash dishes as usual. If there are lots of dishes, then 1 person wash and the other rinse/rack. It's very fast.

When we have parties and there are lots of dishes/glasses (piles up faster than sink can hold), we resort to using buckets to soak/wash/rinse. Just transfer dishes/glasses guests leave around the house to buckets and follow the same operation as before. You may need more buckets as dishes pile up really fast.

This system is optimized for places where there's no (or very little) running water. And it saves lots of energy.

[brunes]

This is the first I've heard of this. What is the maximum rate that water can absorb heat? Do you have a source?

When you splash water onto something very hot, like metal glowing red-hot, it vapourises pretty much instantly, which makes me think that there is really no limit in how fast water can heat up, at least for the practical purposes of household hot water heaters...
It has to do with the thermal conductivity of the water. You have this mass of water, and you are only applying heat at the conduction points. In order for the whole mass to heat up by a degree, the heat has to first conduct through the mass. If you apply heat at a rate faster than the mass can conduct it, what will happen is you'll cause a phase change (read:boiling) locally at the conduction point which will then cause a drop in heating efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_conduction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_heat_flux

[brunes]

We have the luxury of having 2 sinks in the kitchen (one on the island and one on the counter next to wall) so we don't use buckets. But we use the same stage wash system. First, fill the soap basin with cold water/soap and put dishes throughout the day in that basin. At the end of the night, we drain the soak water from the soap basin, take out the dishes from the basin, fill with cold water/soap in the soap basin and just cold water in rinse basin. Then, just wash dishes as usual. If there are lots of dishes, then 1 person wash and the other rinse/rack. It's very fast.

When we have parties and there are lots of dishes/glasses (piles up faster than sink can hold), we resort to using buckets to soak/wash/rinse. Just transfer dishes/glasses guests leave around the house to buckets and follow the same operation as before. You may need more buckets as dishes pile up really fast.

This system is optimized for places where there's no (or very little) running water. And it saves lots of energy.

And it also doesn't clean the dishes properly because you never use hot water. And you use 3 sinkfulls of water for every sinkfull of dishes (1 for soak, 1 for wash, 1 for rinse). You would use much less water running full loads through the dishwasher.

[eelfliw]

Hmmm... ok, assuming each bucket is a 5 gallon pail (awfully small for the average family though) that is 15 gallons of water a day to do dishes. My dishwasher only uses 6 gallons of water, I don't use the heated dry cycle either. One load a day for a family of 5. I know my dishes are clean and sanitized and no one who eats or drinks from our dishes is going to come down with a foodborne illness or anything else from unsanitary dishes. :confused:
Actually, 10 gallons between 3 pails because the soak & wash pails are only 1/2 full. If you put too much water in it'll overflow. :)

Water usage aside, the motor still uses electricity and the wear & tear on the dishwasher will eventually take its toll, requiring a new dishwasher. I'm not sure how much energy/material is needed to build a dishwasher, but the old dishwasher going to landfill and new one built/shipped from China has to take a lot of energy compared to 3 plastic buckets.

[eelfliw]

And it also doesn't clean the dishes properly because you never use hot water. And you use 3 sinkfulls of water for every sinkfull of dishes (1 for soak, 1 for wash, 1 for rinse). You would use much less water running full loads through the dishwasher.
Only 2 sink fulls. Re-read my post.

Water usage wise, dishwasher wins. But you can't discount the fact that dishwasher also uses electricity and there's wear & tear on the machine which will eventually require a replacement. Which isn't "green".

Also, dishwasher detergent is a lot stronger than hand wash detergent (have you tried to wash dishes by hand using dishwasher detergent?). That's can't be good for the environment.

[dark169]

It isn't that simple though. The rate of heating does matter, because the higher the rate of heating needed, the higher the temperature of the elements has to be, which will invariably lead to additional heat leakage that is not used to heat the water. Water can only absorb heat at a certain rate, surplus heat is then wasted.
.

where does the energy go then? :lol:

In an on demand heater water is flowing over the elements. You could think of it more like a heat exchanger with one side being at a constant temperature (in an electric model). Never mind the whole notion of convection inside a tank type heater. I think perhaps you've run into one to many articles attempting to sound way smarter then they are.
Yes there is a limit two how hot a heating element can be befor things like local boiling and element burnout happen, but one can replace the need for high temperature with more area (or time), which is exactly what a tankless heater does (area). A tank type heater uses time to over come the problem.

Any issues with the inability to heat the water at the required rate would lead to lack of hot water not efficiency of the unit. Energy in still needs to equal energy out.

[brunes]

Only 2 sink fulls. Re-read my post.

Water usage wise, dishwasher wins. But you can't discount the fact that dishwasher also uses electricity and there's wear & tear on the machine which will eventually require a replacement. Which isn't "green".


This is a silly argument. I could similarly argue our hand washing results in more wear + tear on the sink.


Also, dishwasher detergent is a lot stronger than hand wash detergent (have you tried to wash dishes by hand using dishwasher detergent?). That's can't be good for the environment.
It's stronger cause it is more concentrated. One little pellet soaps up like 8L of water. You would need much more dish soap to equal the cleaning power.

It is not like the chemical content of the soap is any different it is just concentrated differently. You probably end up putting more soap down the drain with your manual dishwashing than my little washer pellet contains.

[legendofxix]

One of my university professors gave me some great advice for cutting down your electricity bill.
Hook up your TV (or any other device that has a remote control) to a power bar.
When your not using it, turn off the powerbar. This is because the IR sensor in the tv is always on and waiting for you to send the power signal.
Over the course of the lifetime of the TV, if you keep it on, this sensor just keeps "blipping" waiting for a signal even if your not home.
Horrible waste of electricity.

[gman]

One of my university professors gave me some great advice for cutting down your electricity bill.
Hook up your TV (or any other device that has a remote control) to a power bar.
When your not using it, turn off the powerbar. This is because the IR sensor in the tv is always on and waiting for you to send the power signal.
Over the course of the lifetime of the TV, if you keep it on, this sensor just keeps "blipping" waiting for a signal even if your not home.
Horrible waste of electricity.

Sure if you can deal with the situation that the TV has to scan for channels every time you turn it on.

[dark169]

Sure if you can deal with the situation that the TV has to scan for channels every time you turn it on.

Thats the reason I dont. My TV needs to scan and I need to redo any settings if it looses power.

Small item and standby power drain is big problem. Why do you need so many clocks in your kitchen for example; the stove, microwave and coffee maker all have clocks only 1 of which has a self-timer feature to make your morning brew. Day to day its an inconvenience to unplug all these things but if you where to go on vacation and flip a couple breakers you'll do your part 2 weeks a year.

[eelfliw]

This is a silly argument. I could similarly argue our hand washing results in more wear + tear on the sink.If you can wear out your sink with regular hand washing, you should be on TV. Dishwashers wears itself out with regular use just like other appliances. It's part of the design. How do you wear out sinks with hand washing dishes? I've yet to hear of a sink designer who designs the sink to be worn out with regular hand washing.

It's stronger cause it is more concentrated. One little pellet soaps up like 8L of water. You would need much more dish soap to equal the cleaning power.
That's exactly my point. Dishwasher soap must be more concentrated than hand washing soap because there's no sponge/towel that comes in contact with the dish. The only way dishwasher soap cleans is by dissolving grease/grim with its concentrated chemicals/enzymes. But handwashing solution can be more diluted because you're wiping the dish with a sponge/towel. So you don't need the same concentration of chemicals. Needless to say, less chemicals washed down the drain is better for the environment. Using some manual labour to replace machines and harsh chemicals that damage the environment is what being "green" is all about.

Now, if you purposely pour bottles of hand washing detergent down the drain and wash it with cubic meters of water just to prove that hand washing can consume more resources than dishwasher, that's your prerogative. But it doesn't change the fact that hand washing is greener than using a dishwasher.

[gman]

That's exactly my point. Dishwasher soap must be more concentrated than hand washing soap because there's no sponge/towel that comes in contact with the dish. The only way dishwasher soap cleans is by dissolving grease/grim with its concentrated chemicals/enzymes.

Actually, that is only part of it. The main cleaning power is the jet stream of hot water spray on the dishes. That is the replacement of sponge/towel and your hand to make contact. The powder detergent also provides sandblasting effect. I can wash the dishes without dishwasher detergent and the dishes are still relatively clean.

[milhouse6]

If you don't have the Green Bin in your municipality, nag your city councillor to get a move on.

Councillors should also be nagged re: multi-unit (apartment) recycling (both blue box and green bin) and business recycling. (I can't believe in London we still don't have blue boxes for business. A recycling truck will just pass on by a business, even if it's on a mixed residential route.)

Also nag your councillors to make sure you're accepting everything you can in your blue boxes -- in London we don't even take tetrapaks & milk cartons! Pathetic.

[Mgz]

rumour has it that unplugging your power bars saves a lot of electricity that is otherwise wasted.

lol the CEO/author of a consultant firm that design efficient home and stuff told us this in the lecture at my college too.

btw does using 100% eneloop/rechargeable batteries count as green?

[gman]

btw does using 100% eneloop/rechargeable batteries count as green?

It will be perfectly green if one can invent a spin charger. ;)

[gordholio]

I'm not up on all the techniques, but I do a few things to save energy.
I shower for less than 5 minutes.
I use mostly CFL bulbs (about 80%). I have a ceiling fan/light in my bedroom and I don't know if the CFL bulbs will fit (have to try it).
I reuse my Tim Horton's cups multiple times (rinse them quickly just with warm water) instead of dirtying a regular coffee mug.
I live in an apartment just above a laundromat (earthquake city sometimes!), so in the winter I very rarely have to turn on the heat (maybe once or twice during the season).
I buy the returnable 5 gallon US jugs of spring water for my dispenser, rather than buying the small plastic bottles.
I don't have the most energy efficient refrigerator, but I keep the temperature at medium. (I may buy a newer, more energy efficient fridge, but the new ones seem to not last that long - that's bad in itself for the environment).
I moved in 5 1/2 years ago and will be painting my whole apartment again next spring (6 years). So I'm not painting too often and buying too much paint that needs energy to be made.
I use vinegar to clean out my coffee maker.
I have gotten any drips from my faucets fixed promptly to not waste water.
I don't flush everytime, except if I go for a crap. :)

[brunes]

I reuse my Tim Horton's cups multiple times (rinse them quickly just with warm water) instead of dirtying a regular coffee mug.


You'd be better off just getting a travel mug and not getting paper cups at all. On top of saving the environment you'll save 5 cents on every cop of coffee, so if you got a cheap one the mug will pay for itself in a few months.


I buy the returnable 5 gallon US jugs of spring water for my dispenser, rather than buying the small plastic bottles.


You should not buy bottled water at all unless you have some kind of health problem that prevents you from drinking municipal water (allergic to the flouride, etc). Buying bottled water means contributing to the greenhouse gas problem because all that water is trucked and delivered all over the place - totally needless pollution when you consider we have a very effective mass distribution system for water!

if you don't like the taste get a Brita pitcher to improve the taste. Your city water is more safe overall than bottled water anyway due to the regulations and monitoring behind it, which you can not say the same of for water bottling plants overall.

[joshmxpx]

One policy my wife and I recently started using:

If its yellow, let it mellow; if its brown, flush it down.

What is the most green way to shave? I feel guilty about letting the hot water run for the duration of my shave (even though its only twice a week). Although I've heard that turning the tap on and off constantly will put a lot more wear on it. Would filling the sink half and reusing that water to rinse the blade be better?

[telman]

This winter if it ever gets cold, I am going to put all the cold packs I have outside, and rotate them into the fridge. I don't know if it will make much of a difference but it seems silly in cold weather not to harness the weather somehow.

[dark169]

This winter if it ever gets cold, I am going to put all the cold packs I have outside, and rotate them into the fridge. I don't know if it will make much of a difference but it seems silly in cold weather not to harness the weather somehow.

just dont make a special trip outside to get them, grab then on your way in after work and put them out in the morning on your way out. No point in opening the door in -20 weather in an attempt to save power

[dark169]

One policy my wife and I recently started using:

If its yellow, let it mellow; if its brown, flush it down.

What is the most green way to shave? I feel guilty about letting the hot water run for the duration of my shave (even though its only twice a week). Although I've heard that turning the tap on and off constantly will put a lot more wear on it. Would filling the sink half and reusing that water to rinse the blade be better?

I turn the tap off and on, I'd have to time it but I think it would be about the same water as filling the sink. If you have a newer faucet wear would be almost zero, if you have a washer/seat type (the type you need to crank down to close, vs just turn 1/4 or 1/2 way) then replacing the washer is about 5 minutes and 35cents.

[gordholio]

You'd be better off just getting a travel mug and not getting paper cups at all. On top of saving the environment you'll save 5 cents on every cop of coffee, so if you got a cheap one the mug will pay for itself in a few months.



You should not buy bottled water at all unless you have some kind of health problem that prevents you from drinking municipal water (allergic to the flouride, etc). Buying bottled water means contributing to the greenhouse gas problem because all that water is trucked and delivered all over the place - totally needless pollution when you consider we have a very effective mass distribution system for water!

if you don't like the taste get a Brita pitcher to improve the taste. Your city water is more safe overall than bottled water anyway due to the regulations and monitoring behind it, which you can not say the same of for water bottling plants overall.

This is spring water I buy. I don't like the taste of tap water - the chlorine is very noticeable.

[st7860]

lol i was at the supermarket and saw they had a huge flat of nestle water.

whats amusing is that the water had a sign on it proclaiming that the new bottle is better for the environment because it uses 15% less plastic.

[gman]

What is the most green way to shave? I feel guilty about letting the hot water run for the duration of my shave (even though its only twice a week). Although I've heard that turning the tap on and off constantly will put a lot more wear on it. Would filling the sink half and reusing that water to rinse the blade be better?

If you only do that twice a week, why do you bother to care about wear and tear?

[notanexpert]

This winter if it ever gets cold, I am going to put all the cold packs I have outside, and rotate them into the fridge. I don't know if it will make much of a difference but it seems silly in cold weather not to harness the weather somehow.

All the power that you fridge uses (a new super efficient one or an old one, does not matter) eventually ends up as heat inside your home. If its that cold outside, you need to heat your home anyway, so it does not matter really how much work your fridge must do or how efficient it is. Whatever power you save on the fridge, will be used up by whatever you use to heat your place.

[gordholio]

Just do your best with saving energy and don't overly worry about it.
Nobody's perfect.

[telman]

I don't think so, the fridge is located in an alcove and very little heat that it produces can be felt. If I unplugged my fridge, I doubt that my gas bill would rise proportionally. Save where you can, it always good.
My other goal is to see how long we can hang in ther without firing up the furnace, last night in T.O was single digits so I closed all the windows but I think I'll wait before starting the furnace. And no I would catch cold or flu as these are spread by virsuses not by cold temperatures. When I start the furnaces, it only runs in the evening as we are not home in the day, and I can't see warming up thr house for the morning dash to work.

[brunes]

This is spring water I buy. I don't like the taste of tap water - the chlorine is very noticeable.

Easiest way to get rid of chlorine is to fill your water jug and let it sit in the fridge for 1-2 days, *open* (no top on the jug). The chlorine will very quickly evaporate.

This combined with a Brita or other charcol filtration pitcher will give you great tasting water.

[brunes]

This winter if it ever gets cold, I am going to put all the cold packs I have outside, and rotate them into the fridge. I don't know if it will make much of a difference but it seems silly in cold weather not to harness the weather somehow.

I have always thought it would be very cool in Canada to design a house with a "winter fridge / freezer", which would be a closet of the house that had an insulated steel door (kind of like a large fridge door you see in restaurants - maybe get one from surplus?).

This would lead to a closet that would be uninsulated to the outside, but vapour-barriered. The insulation would be between this room and the interior of the house. The bottom half of the closet would have like maybe an R-10 insulation and a very small heater set at 5 degrees, so you could use it as a fridge. The top would be the same temp. as outside, AKA a freezer.

This way in the winter you can store your stuff in here and unplug the deep freeze, and maybe your whole fridge.

[notanexpert]

I don't think so, the fridge is located in an alcove and very little heat that it produces can be felt. If I unplugged my fridge, I doubt that my gas bill would rise proportionally. Save where you can, it always good.
Just like with any other appliance, ALL the energy it uses ends up as heat. It has no place else to go, and it HAS to go somewhere.

...
And no I would catch cold or flu as these are spread by virsuses not by cold temperatures.

You are FAR more likely to get sick when you are cold.
And you're right that the cold and flu are viruses, but the body's ability to fight them off decreases significantly the colder you get.
Also, when you're cold, you get a runny nose even if you're perfectly healthy. For adults that may be easy to deal with, but in kids, that liquid tends to accumulate in their throats and lungs. This creates the perfect breeding ground for viruses and bacteria, so they get sick much more easily when they have a runny nose.

[dark169]

I have always thought it would be very cool in Canada to design a house with a "winter fridge / freezer", which would be a closet of the house that had an insulated steel door (kind of like a large fridge door you see in restaurants - maybe get one from surplus?).

This would lead to a closet that would be uninsulated to the outside, but vapour-barriered. The insulation would be between this room and the interior of the house. The bottom half of the closet would have like maybe an R-10 insulation and a very small heater set at 5 degrees, so you could use it as a fridge. The top would be the same temp. as outside, AKA a freezer.

This way in the winter you can store your stuff in here and unplug the deep freeze, and maybe your whole fridge.

my parents have a cold room that most of the year you could keep most things in pretty safely, in the winter its pretty close to freezing. And their deep freeze is in an unheated garage so it almost never turns on in the winter but its nice to have it plugged in just in case it warms up.

[joshmxpx]

I have always thought it would be very cool in Canada to design a house with a "winter fridge / freezer", which would be a closet of the house that had an insulated steel door (kind of like a large fridge door you see in restaurants - maybe get one from surplus?).

This would lead to a closet that would be uninsulated to the outside, but vapour-barriered. The insulation would be between this room and the interior of the house. The bottom half of the closet would have like maybe an R-10 insulation and a very small heater set at 5 degrees, so you could use it as a fridge. The top would be the same temp. as outside, AKA a freezer.

This way in the winter you can store your stuff in here and unplug the deep freeze, and maybe your whole fridge.

If you read popular mechanics or go to their website, their is a series of articles about a man and his family living entirely off the grid (self-sufficient). One of the first features was about just what you are describing. He put an exterior door in his kitchen and it opened into a sort of pantry that he had turned into an uninsulated fridge for in the winter time.

Another thing that he did was take an older chest freezer (the floor cabinet type) and converted it into a fridge that uses way less energy than a typical fridge since cold air is heavier than room temp air and with a low horizontal fridge, none escapes when you open the door, unlike a conventional fridge in which all the cold air "falls" out every time you open the door.

[telman]

Just like with any other appliance, ALL the energy it uses ends up as heat. It has no place else to go, and it HAS to go somewhere.



You are FAR more likely to get sick when you are cold.
And you're right that the cold and flu are viruses, but the body's ability to fight them off decreases significantly the colder you get.
Also, when you're cold, you get a runny nose even if you're perfectly healthy. For adults that may be easy to deal with, but in kids, that liquid tends to accumulate in their throats and lungs. This creates the perfect breeding ground for viruses and bacteria, so they get sick much more easily when they have a runny nose.

Sorry, didn't realize you were a doctor. I haven't heard that before, but kids are pretty tough. The heat the fridge produces is not benefitting me very much, much like your light bulb thread.

[notanexpert]

...
The heat the fridge produces is not benefitting me very much, much like your light bulb thread.

Of course you don't feel it "benefitting" you, because neither fridges nor light bulbs are designed to keep your house warm! That does not mean that the heat does not exist, or that it somehow does not actually warm your house but "escapes" somewhere into space. The average space heater is 1500 watts, I'm not surprised that you don't feel a 60 watt bulb "benefitting" you, or the fridge, which is probably a couple of hundred watts spread over a huge surface area. But it still WARMS your place, guaranteed. When your heating is on, saving that power means that you have to replace that heat with another source, or it will be cooler, period. You can argue all you want but there's no way of going around physics.
All these efficiencies that so many people talk about are only valid when you don't need to heat your place at the same time. I really feel sorry for people who are too obtuse to realize that and keep deluding themselves about how good they are to the environment or how much money they're saving, when in fact they are only saving anything at all when they don't need heat at the same time.

[telman]

well, not only a doctor but now an expert! If you are why did you start the "Are FL bulbs actually "greener" than incandescents? "thread. Seems to me you are trying to justify using what you want but its far better for me to conserve where I can.

[notanexpert]

well, not only a doctor but now an expert! If you are why did you start the "Are FL bulbs actually "greener" than incandescents? "thread. Seems to me you are trying to justify using what you want but its far better for me to conserve where I can.

For what its worth, I have CFL's all over my house. But I feel I got conned into buying them by some clever marketing. And I feel bad about it, because I have a very strong suspicion that I did the environment absolutely no favour by buying all these useless things, from a total lifecycle perspective. I guess I could feel good about the three that I have outdoors, but those are crap in the winter, they are too dim before they warm up.

[brunes]

For what its worth, I have CFL's all over my house. But I feel I got conned into buying them by some clever marketing. And I feel bad about it, because I have a very strong suspicion that I did the environment absolutely no favour by buying all these useless things, from a total lifecycle perspective. I guess I could feel good about the three that I have outdoors, but those are crap in the winter, they are too dim before they warm up.

Everyone in this (and the other thread) seems to forget - we live in Canada, sure, but it isn't the arctic. You only heat your house 1/2 the year. And I don't know about you guys but in this area I actually need A/C in the summer. So the idea of using incandescents to heat up my house while I cool it with AC is insane.

Sure, in the winter, they don't really save anything since you'd need th eheat anyway. But you don't need the heat in the summer.

[notanexpert]

Everyone in this (and the other thread) seems to forget - we live in Canada, sure, but it isn't the arctic. You only heat your house 1/2 the year. And I don't know about you guys but in this area I actually need A/C in the summer. So the idea of using incandescents to heat up my house while I cool it with AC is insane.

Sure, in the winter, they don't really save anything since you'd need th eheat anyway. But you don't need the heat in the summer.

I absolutely agree with that, the only question that nags me is: are the total lifecycle energy savings that the more efficient light bulbs or appliances claim actually enough to offset the energy used when manufacturing these items. I'm not saying that you should not buy an energy efficient fridge if you need a new fridge, but if you're replacing an old inefficient fridge that still has 10 years of life in it with a new one that is more efficient, is it actually worth it? It takes a lot of energy and resources to produce these appliances and scrap yards are filled up with old ones. I think our climate is not hot enough for this trade off, and its actually better for the environment overall to be using appliances as long as they last versus scrapping them early to take advantage of newer more efficient ones.

[gordholio]

Easiest way to get rid of chlorine is to fill your water jug and let it sit in the fridge for 1-2 days, *open* (no top on the jug). The chlorine will very quickly evaporate.

This combined with a Brita or other charcol filtration pitcher will give you great tasting water.

Good tip, but I like to get water right away. I don't worry if I'm not perfect about energy savings or being green.

[hoob]

A note Blackle does absolutely nothing if you have an LCD monitor. it will only save you power if you have a CRT.


That is incorrect. Blackle does indeed reduce power consumption, even on LCD monitors. Even though the backlight remains on, it takes power to charge the pixels to allow all the light through in "white" mode.

On a 20" 1600x1200 LCD screen, running blackle instead of google in full screen F11 mode, power consumption drops from 38W to 33W. Running on a laptop screen also reduces the power by about 3W as well. (These readings are direct experience using a Kill-A-Watt device hooked up to my monitors and laptops.)