Pricing for replacing my brakes... am I getting hosed?

[jodeci78]

Okay, so i'm sitting here at the dealership getting my $300 oil change and maintenance (I think they are changing some fluids) and the guy says to me that I need to change the brakes.

He said there was about 0.5mm left on my brakes in the front (disc) and I needed to change them. The price? another $300+, for a total of about $700 for this maintenance.

I can't really afford another $700 on my credit card right now... he said i can let it go a bit longer until i feel the vibrating, but i don't want to screw up my car also...

I have:
2004 toyota corolla
82,000 kms

what should I do?

how much does it usually cost?

[jodeci78]

oh, i'm at the dealership now using their internet!

[jaigandhi5]

yes, u are getting ripped off.

[googoo]

If the rotors look good, all you'll need to change is the pads. Get OEM if you want a known quality, or Crappy Tire has Monroes on sale.

Should be less than $40 and MAYBE 2 hours total to change them

[spf1971]

If the rotors look good, all you'll need to change is the pads. Get OEM if you want a known quality, or Crappy Tire has Monroes on sale.

Should be less than $40 and MAYBE 2 hours total to change them

Unless you get absolute low quality pads you're not getting them for less than $40.00

Pads $70.00 - $90.00
Shims (which your car needs) $30.00
Rotors $40.00- $90.00 each

All prices come from Napa ProLink

Plus Labour at a dealer is probably around $70-90 per hour

[BartBandy]

Unless you get absolute low quality pads you're not getting them for less than $40.00

Pads $50.00 - $90.00
Shims (which your car needs) $20.00
Rotors $30.00- $70.00 each

All prices come from Napa ProLink

Plus Labour at a dealer is probably around $70-90 per hour

Wow. A useful reply. Rare.

[jodeci78]

Unless you get absolute low quality pads you're not getting them for less than $40.00

Pads $70.00 - $90.00
Shims (which your car needs) $30.00
Rotors $40.00- $90.00 each

All prices come from Napa ProLink

Plus Labour at a dealer is probably around $70-90 per hour

wow! thanks for the advice.

i'm assuming that price is for one brake, so i will need to double that estimate. correct?

With that being said:
(70 + 30 + 40) x 2 = 280$ on the low end of the estimate
(90 + 30 + 90) x 2 = 420$ on the high end of the estimate

I would predict one hour for actual labour... would that be the one 'soft cost' where local mechanics can probably do better? at the most, lets say he charges only $40 for his time...

so my price of about $300 to $350 is not that bad of a rip-off.

does it matter if they are 'toyota' parts?

[spf1971]

The prices I listed are their "Suggested List Price" you normally get them a bit cheaper.

[spf1971]

Most gargaes do what is called parts labour. The manufacturer tests and creates a list of how long it will take to do a certain repair. That is normally what is charged for the job. If a mechanic can do the job faster then they can make more money, if they do the job slower they make less money. If the job is said to take 1hr he gets paid for 1 hr whether it takes 45min or 1h 15min. Not all garages work that way but most do.

[spf1971]

wow! thanks for the advice.

i'm assuming that price is for one brake, so i will need to double that estimate. correct?

With that being said:
(70 + 30 + 40) x 2 = 280$ on the low end of the estimate
(90 + 30 + 90) x 2 = 420$ on the high end of the estimate

I would predict one hour for actual labour... would that be the one 'soft cost' where local mechanics can probably do better? at the most, lets say he charges only $40 for his time...

so my price of about $300 to $350 is not that bad of a rip-off.

does it matter if they are 'toyota' parts?

The sad reality is just because you are buying from Toyota doesn't mean that they will use Toyota parts. If they don't have the part in, they will get it from Napa, CarQuest whoever has it in. I'm sure they'll charge you for an original Toyota part though.

Rotors and shims would be sold individually but pads are sold as sets. so the cost would be Rotors x2 + shims x2 + pads. That will reduce you're estimate by a bit.

[jodeci78]

Most gargaes do what is called parts labour. The manufacturer tests and creates a list of how long it will take to do a certain repair. That is normally what is charged for the job. If a mechanic can do the job faster then they can make more money, if they do the job slower they make less money. If the job is said to take 1hr he gets paid for 1 hr whether it takes 45min or 1h 15min. Not all garages work that way but most do.

yeah, i think thats what they do here...

[spf1971]

yeah, i think thats what they do here...

Unfortuantely that is what leads to garages cheating people. If the mechanic only gets paid for the work they do as opposed to the time that they work, they'll make sure that they do more work.

[jodeci78]

The prices I listed are their "Suggested List Price" you normally get them a bit cheaper.

lets say i got about 20% off the whole thing... would that be OK then?

i've already got 15% off the regular oil change (with changing of fluids, etc).

He said he could do better on the brakes, but i haven't gotten a 'revised' price just yet...

[jodeci78]

Okay, so here's the total damage:
$582.73 tax included.

what I got in terms of the brakes:
$114.37 parts and labour (pad set listed at 65.37)
$98 parts & labour for machine front rotors
$57.50 for cleaning/deglazing rear brake shoes/drums and or brake rotors and pads - lubed caliper slides and/or contact points etc.
so the total was $270...

I think the reach around was in the recommended service stuff:
$108.88 for:
replace engine oli & filter
remove and inspect air filter element
lubricate locks, latches and hinges
confirm lights, horn, wipers function properly
check coolant and brake fluid levsls
check automatic transmission and washer fluid levels
inspect drive belts for damage, adjust belt tension
check steering gear box, linckage and shock absorbers
inspect ball joints and dust covers, drive shaft steering boots, chassis nuts and bolts for looseness or damage
remove wheel and brake drum, check pads/shoes thickness
examine calipers, wheel cylinders and brake lines
inspect exhaust system for leaks or damage
rotate tires, examine for damage and wear, adjust pressure
road test (not sure if this was done)

then the other stuff:
terra clean - $139.95 for:
remove varnish from injectors, restore spray aptterns, remove residue from combustion chamber
restore original response to oxygen sensors
removes carbon and restors catalytic peak performance

throttle body service - $29.95

I got a 10% discount off all labour.

so what do you think of the price?

[jodeci78]

Unfortuantely that is what leads to garages cheating people. If the mechanic only gets paid for the work they do as opposed to the time that they work, they'll make sure that they do more work.

how are the actual standards? are they padded? speaking from a graphic design perspective, its always padded. something that takes abotu 20 minutes to do gets charged at 1 hour.

[spf1971]

how are the actual standards? are they padded? speaking from a graphic design perspective, its always padded. something that takes abotu 20 minutes to do gets charged at 1 hour.

They would be padded a bit to allow for rust and seizing but I don't know to what degree. The actual manfacturer comes up with those lists.

[Dough]

dealership ftmfl

find yourself a small trustable shop that friends and family recommend

[spf1971]

Okay, so here's the total damage:
$582.73 tax included.

what I got in terms of the brakes:
$114.37 parts and labour (pad set listed at 65.37)
$98 parts & labour for machine front rotors
$57.50 for cleaning/deglazing rear brake shoes/drums and or brake rotors and pads - lubed caliper slides and/or contact points etc.
so the total was $270...

I think the reach around was in the recommended service stuff:
$108.88 for:
replace engine oli & filter
remove and inspect air filter element
lubricate locks, latches and hinges
confirm lights, horn, wipers function properly
check coolant and brake fluid levsls
check automatic transmission and washer fluid levels
inspect drive belts for damage, adjust belt tension
check steering gear box, linckage and shock absorbers
inspect ball joints and dust covers, drive shaft steering boots, chassis nuts and bolts for looseness or damage
remove wheel and brake drum, check pads/shoes thickness
examine calipers, wheel cylinders and brake lines
inspect exhaust system for leaks or damage
rotate tires, examine for damage and wear, adjust pressure
road test (not sure if this was done)

then the other stuff:
terra clean - $139.95 for:
remove varnish from injectors, restore spray aptterns, remove residue from combustion chamber
restore original response to oxygen sensors
removes carbon and restors catalytic peak performance

throttle body service - $29.95

I got a 10% discount off all labour.

so what do you think of the price?

I think some of the stuff that they listed is questionable. With todays gas and the additives that are in them anyway, the Terra Clean to me seems a bit of a scam. I could be wong, I'm not an engineer but I wouldn't bother getting it done again. Unless you're buyng cheap gas you shouldn't have to worry about varnish and deposits. If they did all of the inspections that they claim to have done, then the inspection isn't bad. There is a lot of stuff written there but most of it only takes a few seconds to look at and say it's good. IE: Most cars use automatic tensioners for the belts so when they say "Adjust belt tension" they aren't doing anything but it sounds good.

I sure hope that they did do a road test. How else can they say that your brakes are good if they haven't tested them after doing work. I always road test a vehicle if I've pulled the brakes apart and I make sure the guys who work for me do the same. We don't get paid by the job so there is no incentive for us to cheap out on the job. Sometimes it all comes down to money, 5-10 min road test is time they could be working on another job and making more money.

The $57.50 to deglaze the brakes doesn't sit well with me either, all you normally need to do is scuff them up with some sandpaper.

Not having seem your car or the condition of the brakes and the work that they did makes it pretty much impossible for me to say that they charged you a good price or cheated you. The total isn't out of range for the work that they did. All you can really do is find a mechanic you trust and hope for the best.

I became a mechanic because I got tired of wondering "Am I being cheated" LOL.

[spf1971]

dealership ftmfl

find yourself a small trustable shop that friends and family recommend

Sometimes a dealership is your best bet. You normally pay more per hour but they have all of the specialized equipment and experience to do the job fast and properly. Sometimes a small garage is better because you might get more personalized service.

[bobbings]

they say it's standard to charge the 1 hour. that's a load of crap. they can charge you whatever time they want. they could even charge you 0.59 of an hour if they feel like it.

[ES_Revenge]

Okay, so here's the total damage:
$582.73 tax included.

what I got in terms of the brakes:
$114.37 parts and labour (pad set listed at 65.37)
That isn't bad but the pads may have been overpriced in that I'd suspect you may have gotten aftermarket pads that were better and cost less. Still $115 for brakes isn't bad at all.


$98 parts & labour for machine front rotors
Ah the rip off begins, lol. $100 to machine rotors? Excessive IMO. You may as well have gotten new rotors. Furthermore unless you had a vibration problem there was no need to machine the rotors in the first place.

$57.50 for cleaning/deglazing rear brake shoes/drums and or brake rotors and pads - lubed caliper slides and/or contact points etc.
Ah another scam operation here. $60 to clean rear drums? LOL. They take off the rear drums spill out any dirt and use a rag with some brake cleaner and call that a $60 service... Lubricating the caliper sliders from the front brake job is another joke. They just do that at the same time, it takes them no time at all and should be included in the first $115 anyway.

I think the reach around was in the recommended service stuff:
Yeah more rip offs here!


$108.88 for:
replace engine oli & filter
$35 tops IMO, if they used dino oil.

remove and inspect air filter element
You could do this in 5mins yourself


lubricate locks, latches and hinges
Same with this.

confirm lights, horn, wipers function properly
LOL, you probably do this everyday while driving.

check coolant and brake fluid levsls
check automatic transmission and washer fluid levels
inspect drive belts for damage, adjust belt tension
Again, open your hood, spend 5 mins.

check steering gear box, linckage and shock absorbers
inspect ball joints and dust covers, drive shaft steering boots, chassis nuts and bolts for looseness or damage
Well they're probably doing something there but lots of shops offer free suspension inspections, so this shouldn't cost a dime either. You could do this yourself but you'd have to get under the car and know what to look for. Also usually if there really were a problem here you'd have a complaint like knocking over bumps, excessive steering play, etc.

remove wheel and brake drum, check pads/shoes thickness
examine calipers, wheel cylinders and brake lines
WTF??? They just charged you $60 for this above!

inspect exhaust system for leaks or damage
This is like the suspension inspection, could be free at other shops, and if there were a problem you'd probably have something to complain about to begin with.

rotate tires, examine for damage and wear, adjust pressure
Well there's something that actually requires them doing something, lol. Usually if you bought tyres somewhere this is a free service, however on original tyres you're going to have to pay for this. However it shouldn't cost more than another $30 on top of an oil change since they have the car up anyway and it's pretty easy to do.

road test (not sure if this was done)
Again, you do this everyday and they are required to road test after doing brakes anyway, for safety reasons.

then the other stuff:
terra clean - $139.95 for:
remove varnish from injectors, restore spray aptterns, remove residue from combustion chamber
restore original response to oxygen sensors
removes carbon and restors catalytic peak performance
An interesting service that may be useful but I would say is unncessary unless you have engine running problems or poor fuel economy. These services seem to be a cash cow for garages--takes little time to do and chemicals are cheap for them. In fact if you read the literature the companies send shops regarding these services they always highlight the profit margin.

throttle body service - $29.95Robbery! Well I suppose they have to get paid for doing this and using product to clean it but you could do the same with an old toothbrush and a $10 can of TB cleaner and maybe 15-30mins of your time.

I got a 10% discount off all labour.
At least you got that.

so what do you think of the price?
Rip off overall, but it's to expected at a stealership.

Brakes should have been $115, and they shouldn't have needed to machine the rotors (didn't they say they had to replace them at first???). $60 clean/lube brakes unnecessary really--part should have been done with the front brakes, latter part (inspect/clean rear) is free at a lot of places.

Oil change plus tyre rotation should have been maybe $65 tops. You could have gotten all of this done for like $40 as garages often have oil/rotation specials. All those inspections they did are pretty much free items, again often included at other places just with oil changes.

FI/top end clean was optional, I would just use tank added cleaner every so often and seafoam every year or two instead.

So yeah I would think you could have paid around half that for the same services (minus the injector clean). That's why they call them stealerships though...

[Rehan]

Rip off overall, but it's to expected at a stealership. +1

[Pete_Coach]

Another rant by ES_Revenge. Do you understand that there are many folks out there that do not know the difference between an oil filter and air filter, let alone know where they are? Most people cannot work on their cars due to lack of skill, knowledge or even space. They keep people like you in business and ensure you have a job.You, as a mechanic in a shop, do not do this stuff for free either. Stop being so critical when you are discussing with folks that are not as knowledgeable as you.
The service the OP got for $580 was fair and equitable. He got a complete service, inspection, replenishment and new front brakes and rear brakes serviced, He got peace of mind that his car is now in good shape. You would have charged him the same or maybe a little less because your shop rate may be slightly lower due to less overhead. Dealer shop rates are now in the $100, give or take, bracket. Good shops are also in that bracket.
Do you do a brake service for less than $60? 45 minutes labour (including prep time, both wheels removed and, drums disassembled etc), lubricants, inspection's etc? Or do you even do a brake service?

[spf1971]

Another rant by ES_Revenge. Do you understand that there are many folks out there that do not know the difference between an oil filter and air filter, let alone know where they are? Most people cannot work on their cars due to lack of skill, knowledge or even space. They keep people like you in business and ensure you have a job.You, as a mechanic in a shop, do not do this stuff for free either. Stop being so critical when you are discussing with folks that are not as knowledgeable as you.
The service the OP got for $580 was fair and equitable. He got a complete service, inspection, replenishment and new front brakes and rear brakes serviced, He got peace of mind that his car is now in good shape. You would have charged him the same or maybe a little less because your shop rate may be slightly lower due to less overhead. Dealer shop rates are now in the $100, give or take, bracket. Good shops are also in that bracket.
Do you do a brake service for less than $60? 45 minutes labour (including prep time, both wheels removed and, drums disassembled etc), lubricants, inspection's etc? Or do you even do a brake service?

+1 I doubt Es_revenge is a mechanic

Alot of the work he says garages do for free are done to get you to come in for other work. Garages aren't the only businesses that give things away to get your business.It's a business tactic that everyone uses.

The intank cleaners he mentions are of no real value. You're better off just buying a good quality fuel because it will have cleaners in it anyway.

There is a difference between discussing whether you think some of the charges were high or necessary and making statements(without backing them up) that garages are "stealerships".

ES_ Revenge : Where did you come up with your costs? What experience do you have to back up your statements?

[ES_Revenge]

Another rant by ES_Revenge. Do you understand that there are many folks out there that do not know the difference between an oil filter and air filter, let alone know where they are? Most people cannot work on their cars due to lack of skill, knowledge or even space.
:lol:

You have good points there Pete, but there are things that are very very simple to do and often require little more than a screwdriver and a pair of eyeballs, lol. So while it seems like I'm ranting (and perhaps I am) I'm really just trying to say "hey you know what instead of paying all this money for something simple like this why don't you pick up a screwdriver, use those eyeballs of yours and save yourself some $$$?" Because c'mon isn't that what RFD is about? Saving money? ;)

You'll note that I think brakes are easy enough to do as well, however I didn't at any point tell the OP to do their own brakes in this case because I figured it was out of their scope. If doing simple visual checks by doing a little bit of research into what they have to do (it actually tells you how to check the air filter in most owner's manuals BTW) is too difficult for that person then they deserve to have to pay crazy money for it I guess.

You seem to want to justify lack of knowledge as a legitimate way of someone (garages/dealerships) taking advantage of that lack of knowledge and extracting rather large sums of money for such simple services, many of which above are simple inspections (again only requiring a pair of eyes and knowing what to look for). Now there are many garages that charge reasonable prices for these things (and again many offer free inspections or included inspections with services such as oil changes). Most dealerships do not. They charge big $$$ for low-cost services and charge money for inspections that would be free anywhere else.

Now if someone posted on the computers forum about how certain computer shops were charging them all kinds of money to do the simplest things, don't you think a good lot of people here would tell them "hey don't pay for that, you can get it done for free here or you can easily do it yourself following some simple instructions".

Again, isn't that a lot of what this whole site is about?

They keep people like you in business and ensure you have a job.You, as a mechanic in a shop, do not do this stuff for free either. Stop being so critical when you are discussing with folks that are not as knowledgeable as you.
Hmm, well you seem to have gotten the wrong idea somewhere along the line as I'm not a mechanic by trade nor do I work in an auto shop at all. That aside I'm sorry if I'm coming off as overly critical, however OP asked if what they paid was fair and I gave my honest break-down of that. The initial charge on the brakes seemed absolutely fine but a lot of the rest of it seemed unreasonable to me, which is pretty much what I said.

Now if there is disagreement there that's fine, but I still won't justify telling someone "hey you don't know what you're doing you're not going to be able to do this because you probably can't use a screwdriver, so just pay them whatever they ask because to you it's magic you can't think of performing" LOL. I'd like to at least give the benefit of the doubt in terms of people having at least a bit of intelligence and at least some desire to save money as motivation to do a few simple things that are reasonably within their grasp.

Another point, I wasn't so much telling the OP to do anything by themselves anyway, I was just pointing out how easy some of it was and how a lot of other places wouldn't even charge for some of it, meaning the dealership is overcharging in general. Also it seems they are doing some services of questionable necessity.

The service the OP got for $580 was fair and equitable. He got a complete service, inspection, replenishment and new front brakes and rear brakes serviced, He got peace of mind that his car is now in good shape.
Well see there's the disagreement, heh. I still firmly believe they could have gotten the same services performed (again minus the terraclean) somewhere else and saved a bit of money, If they did some of it themselves or otherwise.

You would have charged him the same or maybe a little less because your shop rate may be slightly lower due to less overhead. Dealer shop rates are now in the $100, give or take, bracket. Good shops are also in that bracket.
Do you do a brake service for less than $60? 45 minutes labour (including prep time, both wheels removed and, drums disassembled etc), lubricants, inspection's etc? Or do you even do a brake service?
LOL again, I don't because I'm not a mechanic heh, but you're right I'd have a hard time charging some of the prices listed there for some of the services.

Again as I mentioned a lot of places will inspect brakes for free. Doing that requires removing the wheels and drums anyway, so the alleged "cleaning" of drums is nearly costless given they do all the real work for free to begin with. Back before I did almost all my work myself, I had been to shops where I'd gone for free brake inspections and walking in the shop itself I moved the tyres around myself and the guy was fine with that, which meant a free tyre rotation ;) Also, at the same time some of them have said "oh the rear drums have a bit of dust in them, I cleaned that out". Of course never charging a thing for that because really what is there to charge for? A few sprays of brake cleaner lol.

To charge $60 for that is a little much considering it could reasonably be performed for free elsewhere. Given the fact that dealerships usually charge more for services in general you would think that these small things would be performed free there if anywhere (as it costs a premium for service to begin with). But no, they just charge money for stuff they really shouldn't be charging for. Like c'mon, lubricating the sliders? They have to do that anyway. Maybe charge a couple bucks for the grease (which a couple of bucks probably buys them a bucket of anyway, lol) but charge $60? I have to say, that is not reasonable it's simply a way of making money.

You'll also notice that some of that work is repeated twice from the brake clean/inspection. One charge is $60, the other is included in the $110 oil change price. They might want to charge only once for a service, not twice right?

Shops definitely have to charge money for services to stay in business, I agree. (Which is why I said what I said about the TB service by the way.) However charging far too much is not just how they stay in business, it's how the owner(s) are driving around Ferraris while you're still driving around a Corolla... Nothing wrong with making money I guess, but there is something wrong with handing it over without any issue or question at all.

[ES_Revenge]

+1 I doubt Es_revenge is a mechanic
+2! LOL. No, I'm not a mechanic as I said. I don't know where that idea came from but yeah I'm just a shade tree haha ;)

Alot of the work he says garages do for free are done to get you to come in for other work. Garages aren't the only businesses that give things away to get your business.It's a business tactic that everyone uses.
True, but some of them are honest. Not all of them are there just to do unnecessary service. They definitely want your business but that's not to say they are all doing it just to be underhanded and create business where it isn't. And truth be told the only place I've ever had say brakes needed replacing when they didn't was guess where? Dealership. And if I hadn't said something and said "I just replaced those a few months back, that's not possible, let me see them" they would have charged me to replace brakes that never needed replacing, not to mention replacing specialised aftermarket pads with crappy ones.

The intank cleaners he mentions are of no real value. You're better off just buying a good quality fuel because it will have cleaners in it anyway.
I think that's based on opinion more than fact. Though I would not say tank products are necessary either. They are certainly not some kind of "mechanic in a bottle" either, as nothing is.

There is a difference between discussing whether you think some of the charges were high or necessary and making statements(without backing them up) that garages are "stealerships".
There certainly is a difference and I do not in any way think I did the latter of what you said.

ES_ Revenge : Where did you come up with your costs? What experience do you have to back up your statements?
I have enough experience working on different cars and sourcing and buying auto parts to back up those statements. I also know what a lot of normal shops charge for services v. most dealerships.

I could find prices for those services at other shops or mechanics that would end up being cheaper than the run down here. However, that's not my job--it's the OPs job to find a better deal if they really want to. We can't do all the work for everyone. But we can point them in the right direction by saying things like "hey you know what, shop around" or "hey you know what don't pay for that, because it's not worth it" etc.

Believe me I'm not some kind of idiot that's just saying this based on no experience or knowledge at all :rolleyes: I'm quite familiar with what auto services should cost what and what parts should cost what; futhermore I'm quite in tune to the games dealerships play and how they price things. If I didn't know anything about it I would never post in the first place.

And note that I'm the one here that pointed out things in quite a bit of detail, yet you're questioning me??? Other people in this thread have said essentially the same thing (some with as little as a one-liner) with far less detail and you're not asking them what experience or knowledge they have are you? :rolleyes:

[spf1971]

First off I hope neither you nor anyone else took my post to be an attack. If I came off accusingly, I apologize. You are absolutely right that what I said about the intank cleaners. I guess i did exactly what I was questioning you about. :eek:

For the one line responders, how many people really pay attention to what they have to say. If they wanted to contribute they would elaborate a bit more on their statements.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said in terms of the maintenance. Most of it was minor things and they probably overcharged for it. When I read your post, some of the statements came across as critizing instead of helpful. We all make statement that are sometimes misinterpreted and can come across wrong.

I've personally found dealerships to be better at only doing necessary work but every dealership and every garage can be different.

As long as discussion like this keep people thinking about the work that they are having done and questioning the cost, it's a good thing.

[Pete_Coach]

Yes ES, a lot of detail, but substance and knowledge about shops, overheads, liabilities and, costs (knowing now that you are not a mechanic) is what you may not understand and therefore your comments may be lacking that info. Yes, you are breaking down statements from others and inserting your thoughts and opinions, just like everyones else, but in more detail. Nonetheless they are still (slightly educated) opinions.
All shops have to charge way more than the mechanic makes for many reasons. Dealerships have to pay way more than independent shops to be in buisness, hence higher hourly rates. They have a mandate, directed by the OEM, on how they can repair a problem. This very often precludes them from fixing as opposed to replacing parts to ensure the safety of the vehicle. For them it is a liability, contractual and OEM obligatory requirement. These burdens do not befall the independent shop.
And, to repeat myself, a very many people cannot fix their own car so being critical of the service provided to them or repeatedly telling them they are being ripped off does not do anyone any one of them any good.
You're a smart guy and have a lot of good things to say, I like many of your comments. Help by informing for the next time without calling everything a rip off or stealership or a scam. :)

[ES_Revenge]

Unless you get absolute low quality pads you're not getting them for less than $40.00

Pads $70.00 - $90.00
Shims (which your car needs) $30.00
Shop in Canada, pay the price LOL.

In the US...
Raybestos Pro-grade US-made ceramics are like $32, shims seem to be included.
Raybestos Advanced Tech US-made ceramics are $33, shims incl.
Delco Durastops semi-met are $31
Beck/Arnley semi-met are $27
Beck/Arnley ceramic are $59
Beck/Arnley branded Axxis semi-met are $39
Monroe Ceramics are $35, shims incl.

Shims, for pads that don't include them are
$7 for Wagner
$6 for Doorman

Add $10 or so for shipping or for prices from B&M stores like AutoZone or Advance.

Rotors $40.00- $90.00 each[/qupte]
Raybestos Pro-grade are around $27 for plain rotors.

Raybestos or Delco drilled and/or slotted rotors are in the $75-$90 range.

Beck/Arnley plain rotors are just $24 due to apparent warehouse closeouts.

I dunno why I bothered posting as I didn't think the actual pad replacement was that bad a deal at the dealer for parts/labour, but just for comparison's sake. I'd imagine using the above parts you'd be getting better than what-the-Toyota-dealer-gives-you brake products, for even less money. Of course the issue of install labour is another story, which is why I still think the dealer price on the pad replacement was okay.

[kleptodathief]

seems like the op paid too much IMO....goto a trusted a mechanic at a local small shop and its HELLA cheaper! they don't call it 'stealerships' for nothing!:mad:

[spf1971]

Shop in Canada, pay the price LOL.

In the US...
Raybestos Pro-grade US-made ceramics are like $32, shims seem to be included.
Raybestos Advanced Tech US-made ceramics are $33, shims incl.
Delco Durastops semi-met are $31
Beck/Arnley semi-met are $27
Beck/Arnley ceramic are $59
Beck/Arnley branded Axxis semi-met are $39
Monroe Ceramics are $35, shims incl.

Shims, for pads that don't include them are
$7 for Wagner
$6 for Doorman

Add $10 or so for shipping or for prices from B&M stores like AutoZone or Advance.



I dunno why I bothered posting as I didn't think the actual pad replacement was that bad a deal at the dealer for parts/labour, but just for comparison's sake. I'd imagine using the above parts you'd be getting better than what-the-Toyota-dealer-gives-you brake products, for even less money. Of course the issue of install labour is another story, which is why I still think the dealer price on the pad replacement was okay.

That's one of the good things about being in Toronto. You have lots of options. I can choose from CT, NAPA, CarQuest and 2 other small parts places. The more options you have the better the price you can get.

[spf1971]

seems like the op paid too much IMO....goto a trusted a mechanic at a local small shop and its HELLA cheaper! they don't call it 'stealerships' for nothing!:mad:

See now this is my point. You might not like dealerships and you might think the OP paid too much, but do you have anything to back up your statement besides "IMO"? If you want to discuss the issue, discuss it. Don't just make blanket statements.

[new_vr]

Okay, so here's the total damage:
$582.73 tax included.

what I got in terms of the brakes:
$114.37 parts and labour (pad set listed at 65.37)
$98 parts & labour for machine front rotors
$57.50 for cleaning/deglazing rear brake shoes/drums and or brake rotors and pads - lubed caliper slides and/or contact points etc.
so the total was $270...

I think the reach around was in the recommended service stuff:
$108.88 for:
replace engine oli & filter
remove and inspect air filter element
lubricate locks, latches and hinges
confirm lights, horn, wipers function properly
check coolant and brake fluid levsls
check automatic transmission and washer fluid levels
inspect drive belts for damage, adjust belt tension
check steering gear box, linckage and shock absorbers
inspect ball joints and dust covers, drive shaft steering boots, chassis nuts and bolts for looseness or damage
remove wheel and brake drum, check pads/shoes thickness
examine calipers, wheel cylinders and brake lines
inspect exhaust system for leaks or damage
rotate tires, examine for damage and wear, adjust pressure
road test (not sure if this was done)

then the other stuff:
terra clean - $139.95 for:
remove varnish from injectors, restore spray aptterns, remove residue from combustion chamber
restore original response to oxygen sensors
removes carbon and restors catalytic peak performance

throttle body service - $29.95

I got a 10% discount off all labour.

so what do you think of the price?
I wouldn't have paid $98 to machine rotors, at that price, you aren't far off getting new ones.
I know I am being cynical, but I wouldn't be suprised if they did everything in the list for the 108.88. It sounds like one of those inspections they say they do, but in reality aren't as thorough as this
To me the terra clean does sound like a high profit margin item, but I am just guessing on that one. I have never had anything like that done to my cars, and I have had some that were running fine with 250K km on them when I got rid of them
A lot of things on your main list would be pretty easy for you to do, if you wanted to learn. Maybe you don't though...that choice is up to you. (Same thing could be said for pretty much anything in life)
Dealers definitely have to make a buck. I am old, and can still remember when most dealerships were pretty small buildings with just a few offices in them. Now, they have fancy buildings, lots of show room, a greeter to meet you, an office manager to discuss everything about what needs to be done to your car...by the time you hit the actual mechanic, you have already went through a couple of people...
For me, probably the biggest thing is if they do good work or not. If you find they do what they say, and do a good job at it, you should probably be happy. I am finding most business (not just the car business) is all about getting your money, and doing things right has become secondary

[gilboman]

actually, i dont think the prices are that bad. definitely not ripp off prices, but reasonable dealer prices. its not cheap but i definitley dont think they are excessive. and a lot of times, if you just goto a local mechanic or garage, the prices you get arent much better than dealerships at all.

i know some ppl at the dealership and i get a lot of stuff for free and/or they put it under warranty for me, so i get way better service/prices from the dealership. e.g. i got all my rotors and pads replaced for free when they just put it under warranty for me last time.

[Rehan]

The issue I have with some dealership is not really the rates but the upselling that they do to try to pile on maintenance that isn't as necessary as they make it out to be. Some dealers are not as bad as others, of course... I found Hyundai of Mississauga was very good when we used to take our car there. On the other hand, letting Erin Mills Mazda look after my Protege was a mistake in hindsight.

I now stick to an independent mechanic that cares about not only his own reputation but also the reputation of the industry in general. He's more interested in educating car owners that may be unfamiliar with the details of vehicle maintenance rather than taking advantage of them.

[ES_Revenge]

First off I hope neither you nor anyone else took my post to be an attack. If I came off accusingly, I apologize.
Oh no worries, heh ;) You can't really offend or even annoy me or anything, unless you like call names or produce irrelevant banter, or stuff like that. Otherwise, heck, say what you want, I'm sure I can defend myself or admit when I'm wrong (rare yeah I know hahaha) :)

[ES_Revenge]

Help by informing for the next time without calling everything a rip off or stealership or a scam. :)
Taken under advisement ;)

[Pete_Coach]

Taken under advisement ;)

We are on thew same side methinks. Good debate and it is always good to learn something.
I still think the OP got a fair deal for the brake work and oil and all filters change and general service he got done.
The throttle body clean is a few squirts of cleaning fluid but it is labour to remove and install and clean that cost the money (only $28 anyway). The Terra Clean is debatable (and it has been debated ad infinitum and generally agreed that this and other products like it are good?)

[kleptodathief]

spf: wow ur a smart newfie!!!:cheesygri definitely stealerships labour rate is WAY higher then ur typical local mechanic's shop ....thats a FACT no IMO :mad:

[spf1971]

spf: wow ur a smart newfie!!!:cheesygri definitely stealerships labour rate is WAY higher then ur typical local mechanic's shop ....thats a FACT no IMO :mad:

They do charge more but I don't know if I would say "WAY" higher. They also specialize in repairing their own make/models and so sometimes that gives you a better repair than an independent shop.

[googoo]

I love all of you ........group hug:D

OH, I was off on my pricing, I called CT and found the Monroes are $64.99, but are often on sale for $48.74(25% off) with a three year warranty if home installed, lifetime if installed at CT(it's CT, probably not a great idea)

So I was off by $8.74, not bad, it also appears they include the shims

Rotors are 88.25 each

Me, unless the car seems to be running funny, skip the Terra clean, I suspect the car is still way too new to require that(spf1971 could tell you for sure), or even a throttle bottle job.

As for the rear brakes, find a buddy and some jack stands, and do a cleaning and inspection yourself Hopefully the buddy has done this before, or just simply do a search on the net.

OH, suprising I pretty much agree with what Es-revenge said .....eeewww shivers:)

Brent

[guppy98]

Just had brakes done this week on my Mazda3 GT:

Dealer wanted $300+tax
Went to Gary's automotive (local place in town) and had them done for $250 in tax

Pads were $30, rotors were $24ea

My mate asked me if they were made of wood for that price! I said they can be made of cream cheese for all I care :)

[Pete_Coach]

Just had brakes done this week on my Mazda3 GT:

Dealer wanted $300+tax
Went to Gary's automotive (local place in town) and had them done for $250 in tax

Pads were $30, rotors were $24ea

My mate asked me if they were made of wood for that price! I said they can be made of cream cheese for all I care :)

I think you should care a lot more than that. Cheap rotors will cost you money again next year, even as much as a new braking system, (rotors, pads and calipers). You saved $50 and did not get a dealer warranty on the work or the parts.

[ES_Revenge]

I think you should care a lot more than that. Cheap rotors will cost you money again next year, even as much as a new braking system, (rotors, pads and calipers). You saved $50 and did not get a dealer warranty on the work or the parts.

Agreed. Not that I care that much about dealer warranty on the work/parts, but as a message to everyone else, please do not cheap out on brake parts, it's just not worth it. Saying that you don't care if they are made out of wood :rolleyes: is borderline irresponsible IMO.

$24 rotors in Canada = asking for trouble, if you ask me. That person with the Mazda3--you've got a relatively new car why put crap parts on it to save a few bucks? Again, it's just not worth it on a safety item like brakes.

[boyoflondon]

NEVER EVER agree to "recommended" repairs at the time of an oil change.
They always do this to people as they know they are the most vulnerable.

For the record, I have a 99 accord. I purchased my own set of premium brakes for $70 ... and another $60 for labour. All in all, 130ish for getting the front brakes replaced.

[antman59]

I remember Crappy Tire listing rotors starting at $20 each for a 2000 Civic a couple of weeks ago. Think it was regular price too.

On the other hand I changed some rotors on a Sonata a couple weeks ago and the dealer ones cost me $90 each. Different dealers chagrge different prices for the same parts. In this case the after markets were more expensive.

[jodeci78]

whoa! i never expected so many replies...

i'm going to have to go in and re-read these posts... maybe i'll just scan in the invoice in the end and just post it somewhere...

I can't help but feel getting ripped off when it comes to cars... From buying to maintenance... its just not something i ever got into.

[jodeci78]

I think in the future, i will definitely skip a lot of the recommended service. The only thing I skipped was the dust and pollen filter... $50.

I'm totally not a car guy, so it is a bit my fault when I expected to service my car for $40 only to pay $600.

You know what? I don't even know what terra clean is... but I can tell you everything you need to know about paper and ink...

[BladeX]

$300 oil changed shocked me, but like someone said those prices ARENT RIDICULOUS but they arent cheap, but its hte premieum ppl pay just to have it done at a "dealership".

The cost to do a brake job for the front from me anyways would have been 200 max, thats barnd new discs, brand new pads decent quality pads as well. Just did one last day

[lh0628]

I think in the future, i will definitely skip a lot of the recommended service. The only thing I skipped was the dust and pollen filter... $50.

I'm totally not a car guy, so it is a bit my fault when I expected to service my car for $40 only to pay $600.

You know what? I don't even know what terra clean is... but I can tell you everything you need to know about paper and ink...

If you can manage to know everything about paper and ink, then it's not too far from knowing your car enough to do the regular maint. stuff yourself.

A set of front brake pads = $50
Oil and filter = $20
Air filter = $30
Labor time = 1 hour for everything
Saving = $700 - $50 -$20 - $30 = $600:cheesygri

[gilboman]

$300 oil changed shocked me, but like someone said those prices ARENT RIDICULOUS but they arent cheap, but its hte premieum ppl pay just to have it done at a "dealership".

The cost to do a brake job for the front from me anyways would have been 200 max, thats barnd new discs, brand new pads decent quality pads as well. Just did one last day

a set of decent brake pads are like 70bux...rotors are 60ish each

[woodstock827]

Is the car still under warranty?
If yes, do all the manufacturer recommended services at dealership (saves the hassle in case you need the warranty). Most of them are just inspections but it's better for them to have it on record. You don't really have to do the dealer recommended services as they won't void your warranty.

For all other works and if you're out of warranty, just find a trusted mechanics. Things like "machining the rotors" aren't really required unless you really feel the bumps when you brake, and it shortens the life of the rotors. Many good mechanics would do regular inspections, like checking filters and hoses, for free as well. Some times you get freebies if you know the mechanic really well.. (I got couple of used drum brake pads with lots of life in them for free :P)

[Time-Lord]

Just had brakes done this week on my Mazda3 GT:

Dealer wanted $300+tax
Went to Gary's automotive (local place in town) and had them done for $250 in tax

Pads were $30, rotors were $24ea

My mate asked me if they were made of wood for that price! I said they can be made of cream cheese for all I care :)

You should care about the pads and rotors. I own an independent repair shop and while I can sell you junk Chinese made brake parts, I won't. Real brake rotors are going to be $50 - $80 instead of $24. Decent pads are two to three time what you paid.
You didn't buy a Chinese made car, why would you want to buy the cheapest, lowest quality, poorest performing brake parts you can find?
If you want to save money buy a cheap TV, don't cheap out on the most important safety feature on your car.

[romsan04]

I don't believe there are out there "honest mechanics". I would agree that most of the time dealerships are rip off when it comes to service, but on other hand I do know that they did the work, took care of my car and not used some $25 chinese parts so they can make more money.

Can someone price me what would cost me to do these items at "honest mechanic" for 2001 Camry, parts,labor and taxes :

Oil and filter change
Brake fluid
Front pads
Leaking tire
Rotate tires

[spf1971]

I don't believe there are out there "honest mechanics". I would agree that most of the time dealerships are rip off when it comes to service, but on other hand I do know that they did the work, took care of my car and not used some $25 chinese parts so they can make more money.

Can someone price me what would cost me to do these items at "honest mechanic" for 2001 Camry, parts,labor and taxes :

Oil and filter change
Brake fluid
Front pads
Leaking tire
Rotate tires


I can tell you that there are honest mechanics out there because I am one of them. Before I can give you any type of price I'd need to know engine size and tire size.

[BladeX]

You didn't buy a Chinese made car, why would you want to buy the cheapest, lowest quality, poorest performing brake parts you can find?

IMO from my own experience, feedback from customers, these "chinese poor performance" brake pads/parts quality is quievelent to factory / stock parts. I dont know if the parts I get are any different but mostly not, what I usually offer to customers are cheap rotors and good pads. So rotors at $30 each, and pads of $70 and they work exactly the same, from my own cars IMO anyways. Just because SOME of them are made china or taiwan, doesn't mean they suck btw. Like you said about buying TV, you do know that even the higher brands TV some are made in china?

for $70 pads most are made in japan, discs wouldnt be too much of a concern in terms of better discs unless you really hammer your brakes.

[BladeX]

Oil and filter change
Brake fluid
Front pads
Leaking tire
Rotate tires

Oil and filter change
$20-30 normal oil change (aftermarket filter, 30 for original..thats usually the average pricing from the small shops)
$50-70 for synthetic

Brake Fluid
$50 around, depending on what fliud you want to use and thats a brake flush so they will bleed your brakes all around too.

Front pads
$100-150 (if just pads, but I would suggest doing rotors as well)
$200-250 (with rotors)

Leaking tire
$10-50 (depending what leak, and how you want to fix it)

Rotate tires
$10-20 (you can do this yourself though)

[Time-Lord]

IMO from my own experience, feedback from customers, these "chinese poor performance" brake pads/parts quality is quievelent to factory / stock parts. I dont know if the parts I get are any different but mostly not, what I usually offer to customers are cheap rotors and good pads. So rotors at $30 each, and pads of $70 and they work exactly the same, from my own cars IMO anyways. Just because SOME of them are made china or taiwan, doesn't mean they suck btw. Like you said about buying TV, you do know that even the higher brands TV some are made in china?

for $70 pads most are made in japan, discs wouldnt be too much of a concern in terms of better discs unless you really hammer your brakes.

It's when you really need to "hammer" on the brakes that the quality shows through. Given that you are probably hammering the brakes to avoid a possibly deadly crash.... Well, what's your life worth?

As far as the cheap brake parts working exactly the same as factory (or quality aftermarket), under normal driving they may be acceptable, but they will make noises, rotors warp quickly and pads don't last as long. The "savings" just aren't worth it.

[romsan04]

I can tell you that there are honest mechanics out there because I am one of them. Before I can give you any type of price I'd need to know engine size and tire size.

It's V6 and tires are 16 inches.
How much do you charge per hour???

[BladeX]

It's when you really need to "hammer" on the brakes that the quality shows through. Given that you are probably hammering the brakes to avoid a possibly deadly crash.... Well, what's your life worth?

As far as the cheap brake parts working exactly the same as factory (or quality aftermarket), under normal driving they may be acceptable, but they will make noises, rotors warp quickly and pads don't last as long. The "savings" just aren't worth it.

As in hammer, I dont mean a one time thing. I mean people who dont know how to use their brakes properly and they literally hammer their brakes every chancee, hammer I guess wasent the right term. By them not knowing how to brake properly to further save brake life expectancy, thats what causes discs to warrp thats the only reason why you would get better discs, from heat issues and warping, for ppl who literally slam their brakes all the time, causing this. One time hammer, course, even with stock discs you do understand that the materials used to make regardless of aftermarket or not, some are the same materials just branded differently? Just like buying anything else, there are other options and because it doesnt say ACURA on it doesnt mean it is not to those standards.

Aftermarket pads, actually last longer than stock. Some can be 10 000kms more, some 20 000. I dont know of any brakes known to make noise after hammering them or whatever, they either make noise because of the materials its made of, or they make noise because the pads are low and they need to be changed or they dont make noise at all. If I get pads, hammer hell out of them but their still new, they will not make noise. Discs are honestly really hard to warp, tracked a car with the cheapest rotors availiable came out still good.

By all means Im not trying to suggest cheaping out on brakes, cheaping out on something that could very well save your life (i drive a car that has aftermarket performance brakes that cost quite a bit to swap over, and these brakes REALLY make a difference) but showing you other options that are there, because regardless if they are brakes or not, what they do, people want to save money and as long as it works they will want whats cheapest.

So im giving feedback, they work the same, repeated customers all the time with the same parts with no complaints.

[romsan04]

Oil and filter change
$20-30 normal oil change (aftermarket filter, 30 for original..thats usually the average pricing from the small shops)
$50-70 for synthetic

Brake Fluid
$50 around, depending on what fliud you want to use and thats a brake flush so they will bleed your brakes all around too.

Front pads
$100-150 (if just pads, but I would suggest doing rotors as well)
$200-250 (with rotors)

Leaking tire
$10-50 (depending what leak, and how you want to fix it)

Rotate tires
$10-20 (you can do this yourself though)

$30
$50
$150
$50
$20

=$300 just for that if you add rod + work, will be another $100-$150
Total will be around $450....

[BladeX]

Those prices are included with installation, well those are the average pricing that I see just to let you know what you should expect pricing with shops.

[gilboman]

IMO from my own experience, feedback from customers, these "chinese poor performance" brake pads/parts quality is quievelent to factory / stock parts. I dont know if the parts I get are any different but mostly not, what I usually offer to customers are cheap rotors and good pads. So rotors at $30 each, and pads of $70 and they work exactly the same, from my own cars IMO anyways. Just because SOME of them are made china or taiwan, doesn't mean they suck btw. Like you said about buying TV, you do know that even the higher brands TV some are made in china?

for $70 pads most are made in japan, discs wouldnt be too much of a concern in terms of better discs unless you really hammer your brakes.

from own experience..they most definitely are NOT. manufactuer parts are from usually higher than the "cheap" stuff you would get elsewhere. I can for sure tell you that the run of the mill $30 rotors and $50/pair of pads most definitely are not the same as the manufactuer stuff.

and then there are the premium/performance parts that cost more than manufactuer that may or may not perform better than manufactuer stuff.

for stuff like brakes that last so long, why would you cheap out and get stuff lower tier than what your car originally came with?

[BladeX]

for stuff like brakes that last so long, why would you cheap out and get stuff lower tier than what your car originally came with?

Just like with anything, regardless of what, why does ANYBODY cheap out and get stuff cheaper?

Im speaking from experience with feedback from tons of customers from various shops in markham, richmond hill, and scarborough, all small shops and a few performance shops. How can you for sure tell me that the rotors and pads arent of the same quality? Any info to prove it?
And like Ive said many times, customers and I personally and relatives, discs of $20-30, and pads of $70-80 and NO complaints. All tell me they feel the same, they dont feel like of lower quality, nor do they feel higher quality, they feel the "same".

Im just telling people my experience, Im not saying anything / persuading anyone or trying to get people to buy i guess some people wuold say "cheap" brakes. Im just giving my personal feedback of how aftermarket brake pads and rotors quality are like. I mean we all love to save money, it is RFD, if pads are cheap and perform the same THAT I THINK THEY DO why not? So Im just letting ppl know there are other options then dealer.

Course there are also people who would only deal with dealer, some people ONLY want things from dealer and there are some people that WILL ONLY bring their cars to the dealer. Some people are willing to pay for the premium and some arent but when it comes to car parts, honestly aftermarket parts and dealer stuff are equivelent, it can be a ton of different parts for the car and price is alot cheaper. There are some things that I would get from dealer only tho but very few (cant think of anything off my head rite now but)

Some people think dealer are the best or just superior, but thats not necessarily true, they meet the standards and its simple as that. Just because aftermarket part is cheaper does not mean dealer simply performs better, your just paying more for the same thing.

[ES_Revenge]

Just like with anything, regardless of what, why does ANYBODY cheap out and get stuff cheaper?
Nothing wrong with getting stuff cheaper, but the point is not to get cheap stuff at the cheap price it is but rather to get high-quality/good stuff for low prices :) If you forgot where you were check the URL in your browser. If you're still unsure, hit up the Hot Deals section--that should remind you ;)

How can you for sure tell me that the rotors and pads arent of the same quality? Any info to prove it?
With many of these parts you can actually tell visually. If you can see a visual difference there is definitely something wrong. Because metals/metal products may have differences invisible to the naked eye which present a large quality difference.

And it's not just someone that knows about auto parts that can tell. Not long ago I showed my sister (who has very little knowledge of auto parts) two brake rotors as an example. I told her "one of these is Made in the US, the other in China", which is which? Quite easily she said "yeah that one looks like crap in comparison, it must be the China one".

And like Ive said many times, customers and I personally and relatives, discs of $20-30, and pads of $70-80 and NO complaints. All tell me they feel the same, they dont feel like of lower quality, nor do they feel higher quality, they feel the "same".
I've seen a lot of cheap rotors fail and warp quickly :shrug: Also cheap pads often produce wheel-pitting dust. Perhaps not something everyone would notice but even without a lot of dust, cheap pads can damage your wheels by pitting/eroding them.

Im just telling people my experience, Im not saying anything / persuading anyone or trying to get people to buy i guess some people wuold say "cheap" brakes. Im just giving my personal feedback of how aftermarket brake pads and rotors quality are like. I mean we all love to save money, it is RFD, if pads are cheap and perform the same THAT I THINK THEY DO why not? So Im just letting ppl know there are other options then dealer.
There are, certainly. And there's easy ways to get good parts for cheap, not cheap parts for cheap. The chief way of doing this in my experience is buying them from the US, even better now that the $$$ is par ;)

Course there are also people who would only deal with dealer, some people ONLY want things from dealer and there are some people that WILL ONLY bring their cars to the dealer.
Indeed. Some people are just unfortunately misguided (or just crazed, lol). Way back in the day I was similarly misguided thinking dealers somehow provided better service than other shops, when the truth is quite the opposite. But I learned a good while ago the games stealerships play, hopefully other people like the above will as well.


Some people are willing to pay for the premium and some arent but when it comes to car parts, honestly aftermarket parts and dealer stuff are equivelent, it can be a ton of different parts for the car and price is alot cheaper.
Aftermarket stuff can easily be better than dealer parts, however it can easily be worse as well.

Keep in mind many manufacturers also don't use the exact original parts to replace stuff with. Take GM for example, most people don't know this but Delco parts are often not the "OE" parts. Delco-branded brake pads (like DuraStop) are fine pads (sometimes even better than the OE), but most GM vehicles do not use these pads from the plant. The OE pads are significantly more expensive, at the GM dealer. Same goes for brake rotors, and many other wear-type parts.

Some people think dealer are the best or just superior, but thats not necessarily true, they meet the standards and its simple as that. Just because aftermarket part is cheaper does not mean dealer simply performs better, your just paying more for the same thing.
I agree that most dealer parts are overpriced (again let's take a look at Delco, you can get Delco parts elsewhere for 15-20% less than at a GM dealer, but many people don't know this--dealer just gouges because they can). However I don't agree that cheap parts are anything better than cheap parts. Dealer-supplied parts aren't worth what they price them at, but they are usually worth more than el-cheapo parts.

[nwmrkt]

get your car out of that "stealership" now! a $300 oil change? their hosing you.