Who does not want to have children?

[Xtreme2001]

I ponder this question all the time.

Even with my last gf I thought to myself 'I think i'd like to have kids', but for all the wrong reasons. My ex would always say she wanted them before 30, so 5 years away. Maybe I felt pressured. I would comment that it is quite difficult to even think that far ahead because anything could happen.

Alot of happily married and miserable couples always say 'you'll grow to want one'.. but i'm having a hard time too. I work in the health care field and I deal with children ALL the time and for the most part, there is no feeling there. Maybe i'm selfish and want to live my life? Sure that could be a big part, another is that maybe I haven't met 'the one' to make me feel content with myself and settle and have children.


So what's your reason?

[vrus]

I wouldn't mind if the girl I'm with doesn't want em. I guess it's not a big priority to me when I think about it. I'm 21, so I don't know if I'll change my mind down the road.

[rc51]

I've never thought I'd want kids..and that thought process still stands true.

Been married now for 15 years..my wife originally wanted kids...but considering she wanted a career too and as many degrees she could earn...it wouldn't have been fair to the kids or us. I'm sure there's still a part of her that still wants kids, but when you are working 60 hours a week, doing your MBA, and travel a good 30% of the time for the job...would it really be fair to a child? We think not. We also don't live in a city with any familly and haven't done so in 10 years or so...and probably never will again, so it makes it tougher. And on top of that we have no idea where we're gonna be, we're very mobile with just the 2 of us...if she was offered a posting to Europe, South America, depending on the circumstances, we're gone in a heart beat...can't really be that spontaneous when you have kids.

[Junk Food Junkie]

I don't, I think I've always known. If it happens, so be it, but no plans.

[The_dream2k]

Speaking for guys, its harder to "want" children, but the first time you hear their heartbeat or the first time you see them, that when you will know that you want a child..

I dont have one yet:D

[sexpuppet6000]

i want kids.

[drucillica]

me0kat doesn't.

[i6s1]

I didn't really think that I wanted kids, and now I'm an uncle. Now I know that I don't want kids.

It's cause I'm selfish and I don't want to spend the time or money that kids cost.

[Nikita]

Maybe i'm selfish and want to live my life? Sure that could be a big part, another is that maybe I haven't met 'the one' to make me feel content with myself and settle and have children.


So what's your reason?

I didn't really think that I wanted kids, and now I'm an uncle. Now I know that I don't want kids.

It's cause I'm selfish and I don't want to spend the time or money that kids cost.

I've never seen my decision to not have children as selfish. In fact, I believe that if you recognize that your lifestyle wouldn't be great for kids, or you wouldn't be a great parent (cuz not everyone does), it's in fact very selfLESS to recognize that and not have them.

[gman]

I did not want any kid. I am very happy that I do not get what I want.

[sexpuppet6000]

so far it seems like most people here dont want kids.
or the ones who want kids or have kids haven't spoken up.

[i6s1]

I've never seen my decision to not have children as selfish. In fact, I believe that if you recognize that your lifestyle wouldn't be great for kids, or you wouldn't be a great parent (cuz not everyone does), it's in fact very selfLESS to recognize that and not have them.

But in my case, it's not because of lifestyle or lack of confidence in parenting skills, it's because I don't want to devote time or energy to someone else. You might not be selfish, but I am. Really.

[Feneant]

so far it seems like most people here dont want kids.
or the ones who want kids or have kids haven't spoken up.

Well, the question was who does not want kids so it might have kept some away.

For myself, I don't think I want any because it is an entirely new lifestyle to adopt for at least 18 years and with the way society stands, it probably would be a very longggg 18 years.

[mart242]

Speaking for guys, its harder to "want" children, but the first time you hear their heartbeat or the first time you see them, that when you will know that you want a child..

That sums it up pretty well.

I'm not sure that there are many mature adults (ie: no prego teenagers but folks 25 years old +) who say "I wish I did not have kids. I hate the ones I have".

[Bazooka Joe]

I'm in a similar boat. I see all those kids out there who turn out horribly and wonder what makes me any better a parent than those people.

However, if I ever got serious with a woman that really wants them, I would consider it.

[rdtx2002]

me0kat doesn't.

it would be in our best interests.

[akito925]

I want kids myself.. the feeling is wonderful to have your own to raise I'd guess to be a dad. hehe.. but to the op... what do you do in the health care field? how much free time, days off, or even how much vacation time d you get?

[formalentity]

I'm only 19, but I know I want kids down the road, prolly cause I got two baby sisters, and I do take care of em occasionally... kids can be a lot of fun

[Bullseye]

If you really look deeply at it, almost every reason to have kids turns out to be selfish. It seems counterintuitive, as raising children is very hard work, but the REASONS for wanting kids are all essentially ego-based...you want to not grow old alone, you want someone to love you unconditionally, you want to leave a part of yourself in the world when you die, etc.

I should mention that I am a happy father of two awesome little boys. :lol: I'm also a realist, though. I can respect those who recognize that they don't want kids, as long as they are happy with that choice. I would never call that selfish to make that decision.

[vladislav]

Don't want kids, I just don't see a point. Nature makes us want children to spread our seed, society wants us to have children because it's the norm (that's quickly changing though). The whole 'fruit of your loins' thing to me is actually not a good thing. There are too many children in the world as is and if you need someone to care for get one of the less fortunate kids but for most people that's not the reason to have a kid.

I prefer pets :)

[mart242]

I prefer pets :)

Ah yes. Those who buy a dog / cat / pet and think of it as a kid. That's another story. You see them bringing their dogs shopping, buying them christmas gifts, taking lots of pictures of their dogs and putting them on the walls in their house... :lol:

[goobelygoop]

I'm a girl, and I do NOT want kids under any circumstances. God forbid I accidently got pregant, I would give the baby away for adoption as soon as it was born. Frankly, I don't think I have the patience to take care of them and I know for a fact I'd be an awful mother. Sure they're cute and all, but I think I'd get bored of that kinda quickly. As for someone taking care of me when I get older....well that's what nursing homes are for!

[Keelie]

i think i was about 16 or 17 when i first decided i never wanted to have kids. everyone said my mind would change as i got older.

married 10 years and both of us are quite happy not having kids. nor do we want any in the future.

[mart242]

I'm a girl, and I do NOT want kids under any circumstances. God forbid I accidently got pregant, I would give the baby away for adoption as soon as it was born. Frankly, I don't think I have the patience to take care of them and I know for a fact I'd be an awful mother. Sure they're cute and all, but I think I'd get bored of that kinda quickly. As for someone taking care of me when I get older....well that's what nursing homes are for!

Wait until your 12 or 13, you might start changing your mind. You can't decide until you've at least reached puberty.

[stealth]

I ponder this question all the time.

Even with my last gf I thought to myself 'I think i'd like to have kids', but for all the wrong reasons. My ex would always say she wanted them before 30, so 5 years away. Maybe I felt pressured. I would comment that it is quite difficult to even think that far ahead because anything could happen.

Alot of happily married and miserable couples always say 'you'll grow to want one'.. but i'm having a hard time too. I work in the health care field and I deal with children ALL the time and for the most part, there is no feeling there. Maybe i'm selfish and want to live my life? Sure that could be a big part, another is that maybe I haven't met 'the one' to make me feel content with myself and settle and have children.


So what's your reason?

Ya, they all say this, but never say why. And watching them with their kids doesnt exactly inspire me either. Oh well. I'm pretty ambivalent on it really. If it happened, ONCE, fine. But I cant say I have this burning desire for it. Unlike some of my friends who have spent thousands on fertility treatments, and the stress that goes along with it.

[billdozer]

Wait until your 12 or 13, you might start changing your mind. You can't decide until you've at least reached puberty.

LOL
personal attack out of nowhere :lol:

[goobelygoop]

Wait until your 12 or 13, you might start changing your mind. You can't decide until you've at least reached puberty.

I'm 23 you idiot, and just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I haven't reached puberty...such an immature comment from someone who's telling ME I need to grow up. Regardless, my point still stands that I don't have the patience to take care of kids. Not everyone is cut out for motherhood. Besides, I'd be doing the child a disservice by bringing him/her into the world and not taking the best possible care of it as possible.

[mart242]

LOL
personal attack out of nowhere :lol:

:lol: I just couldn't resist. :D

The "I'm a girl" (sounds like a teenager saying that) and "I would get bored of kids" comment lead me to believe that the poster was young. There's no way you can get bored of kids. Not wanting them, I understand. But getting bored? Hell, they do all sorts of stuff they are not supposed to do all the time.

[goobelygoop]

:lol: I just couldn't resist. :D

The "I'm a girl" (sounds like a teenager saying that) and "I would get bored of kids" comment lead me to believe that the poster was young. There's no way you can get bored of kids. Not wanting them, I understand. But getting bored? Hell, they do all sorts of stuff they are not supposed to do all the time.

Well if you REALLY want me to dissect my 3 lines I wrote...I wrote "I'm a girl" because most of the posters here are guys, so I thought I'd add in a female's POV. The getting bored part came from another person's comment that said something to the effect of you don't want kids, but once you hear the heartbeat and see them you want them -- that's cute and all, but after a while you'd get tired of that kind of stuff (at least I would)...the stress of taking care of the kid would probably overwhelm me.

Better?

[Spidey]

I have 3 kids and started fairly young (24) Not by choice but thats the way it goes. But I was going to marry my wife anyways before it happened, so to me it didn't matter.

I have friends that were dead set against kids, etc. But now as they are in their mid 30's, they have totally changed their minds and want kids. Some are now married just within the last year, but have married women almost 7-9years their junior, who don't want kids for awhile. So they may not be having kids till they are in their early 40's. While myself I will have no kids at home almost by that time.

Just to all the younger ones on here in their early to mid 20's. never say never. it is your choice not to and thats great, but time has a way of changing your mind.

I do have a friend who got a vasectomy because he and his partner didn't want to ever have kids. I thought that was going a bit far, but to each their own

[gei]

It's easy to say you don't want them when you're young. But I'm sure down the road when you're all old and have nothing exciting left in your lives, you will deeply regret not having anyone to pass on your wisdom to, and to take care of you in your old age. Of course by then it will be too late.

The entire point of our existance is to procreate. If you haven't done so then you really had no reason to exist in the first place.

[Bullseye]

, you will deeply regret not having anyone to pass on your wisdom to, and to take care of you in your old age.

Again, just ego stroking, proves my point that most people have kids to satisfy their OWN desires.

, The entire point of our existance is to procreate. If you haven't done so then you really had no reason to exist in the first place.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, but it's impossible to disprove such an opinion.

edited for quoting error

[YnD]

Why wouldn't you want to have kids?

It'll continue the family bloodline/tree.... more people the better...
It'll help you grow as a person with the responsibility etc...
When you retire, you got your kids to take care of you...

They'll be a liability/expense up till university (with the exception of chores and giving rides) but then they'll switch over to asset upon graduation and a career...

[Feneant]

[QUOTE=YnD;5575140]When you retire, you got your kids to take care of you...[QUOTE]

Hearing this one sickens me. I would rather kill myself than force my kids to take care of me. By that time their own kids would have moved out and they would be living the good years then BLAM! someone moves in the basement and you have to change diapers all over again.

I don't want them

[malbadon]

I have no interest in kids. I like my lackadaisical ways. I'm content, happy, and pleased with my life. I enjoy coming home with the knowledge that I have no commitments or requirements beyond what myself or my wife choose to do each evening. I don't want to have to book my Tuesday off for softball, my Saturday off for hockey, and every other evening off to ensure homework gets done. People who "have to have kids" I find are usually just filling a short-coming they perceive in their own lives, trying to fill it vicariously through their offspring in an attempt to ignore that short-coming, or just flat out doing what they feel they are "expected" to do.

It doesn't mean we'll never have kids, accidents happen, and its been pointed out to me many times "I'd make a great dad". I'm sure I would, and if it happens it happens, but I'm not going to go out of my way to make it happen like its some end-all-be-all life fullfilling checkmark to add to my life accomplishments.

I love Rob Corddry's comments on kids, true he has them, but he doesn't take the ******** doe-eyed "kids are the greatest and most important thing in the world" view most parents do.
From the very work inappropriate site, suicidegirls.com:

“Every second is a miracle,” he said, attempting to flip through the newer Baby Einstein videos while navigating around the three-month-old strapped to his chest. “Seriously. Every second.” I nodded, pretending to give even an inkling of a **** about any syllable that managed to make its way past his prodigious teeth. “A living, breathing miracle! Every single second.” He stopped at one particular video and smiled. Or, rather, he smiled more. I’m not sure his mouth was built in a way that allowed him to do anything but. I hated him so much.

“Wow, you’re so lucky.” I said.
“You will be too, soon!” he whinnied at me, and motioned across the store to my then-pregnant wife.
“No, I mean, most people have to measure time by seconds. You get to measure it by miracles.”
“Yeah! It’s like that!” he brayed, knocking over an entire shelf of videos with his massive front teeth.
I winced. Playing the smart ass to the perpetually stupid is never as satisfying as it should be. I’d have to remember to tell my wife how funny I was. Sixty miracles later we were out the door.

My neighborhood in Brooklyn was a hornet’s nest of children and their horrible parents. I hated every single person with a kid that lived within a twenty-block radius of my childless home. To me, parents seemed nothing more than glazy-eyed automatons intent on getting the next best stroller and quitting their jobs so that they could teach their brood sign language before they could even sit upright. They re-jigger every single aspect of their lives to meet the supposed needs of this tiny mass of unresponsive flesh that they have so willfully given up their spare bedroom/awesome home office for. When these uber-parents finally take a few hours off they brag about “not taking epidurals” and how much they hate sleeping anyway. An “Epidural” by the way, is a kick-ass cocktail of Morphine and vagina-Novocaine that actually allows a woman to enjoy the birthing process. Epidurals are shunned by the overly proud and ****ing stupid. I stand by this statement. If you refuse the epidural you are a ******** monkey.

Why is it that parents today are, mostly, horrible douche-bags? It’s most likely a reaction to their own upbringing; our parents’ generation failed at absolutely everything. But I hate blaming the whole phenomenon on Hitler, whiskey, Vietnam and Watergate. The world is a little more dangerous than it was when we grew up and we are acutely aware of it. We are afraid of everything in a way our parents weren’t and we are intensely protective and, I think, competitive. And what inspires competition more than the result of our own co-mingled love juices? Unfortunately, nothing.

I never wanted kids. I’m too lazy, self-centered and awesome. “Oh but that’s perfect!” an idiot once told me. “Having kids is the ultimate narcissism! Its a little version of you!” That seems less like narcissism and more like psychosis to me. While I do tend to think of myself (often) as talented and ruggedly handsome I have no desire to cultivate an army of tiny selves. I would, however, be interested in discussing an army of Zombies. While dangerous, Zombies are easy to kill. Babies are not.

I admit that, since I’ve had a child of my own, these people don’t bother me as much. I guess I’ve learned who to avoid. And these people are much more annoying when you aren’t a parent. I’ve vowed never to be as condescending to prospective parents as these parents were to me. “Your life is going to change!” is the most common mantra-hammer with which people love to smash the childless. But, when you have a child, your life doesn’t actually change all that much. Sure, I wake up earlier, so I can’t booze like I used to. I’ve also become a little more productive with my time, as it has become slightly more precious. But, essentially, I’m still the same functional alcoholic I was before my wife’s vagina exploded.

And every second is NOT a living, breathing miracle. Some seconds are boring. A lot are terrifying. Most are merely hilarious.

I apologize if this seems strident and reactionary. I hate the hip, devil-may-care parents almost as much as I hate the robot variety. J.D. Salinger once said something like, “Love your children with detachment for they are not yours. They belong to God.” Then again, J.D. Salinger is most likely a pedophile. I mean, have you read “A Perfect Day for Bananafish”? What a freak.

-Rob Corddry

[gman]

Why wouldn't you want to have kids?

It'll continue the family bloodline/tree.... more people the better...
It'll help you grow as a person with the responsibility etc...
When you retire, you got your kids to take care of you...

They'll be a liability/expense up till university (with the exception of chores and giving rides) but then they'll switch over to asset upon graduation and a career...

I did not want kid and I am glad I was wrong.

None of your reasons are good reason.
About reason 1, why do you really care about bloodline if you are dead? Why more people the better?
About reason 2, your kid is not a tool or training material.
About reason 3, that is pure selfish and if I were you, I won't count on that.

In a nut shell, raising a kid is not an investment. Consider it is a hobby and don't expect anything to return.

[Spidey]

Wow, from reading the threads on here, there are a lot of people that actually hate kids. May not say it outright, but thats the feel I get.

Myself, I'm glad I have children. Some days are really good, and some days are really bad. But when I'm wrestling with them on the floor and they are laughing, all the troubles in the world go away. Its hard to describe, but when that happens it makes me feel complete.

But saying having kids is selfish on the parents part I think is going a little far.

But then thats me

[Bullseye]

Its hard to describe, but when that happens it makes me feel complete.

But saying having kids is selfish on the parents part I think is going a little far.


The two sentences quoted above seem contradictory, don't you think? (bolding mine)

[ERIKAAMORRIS]

I understand that some peolple may not feel they are sutited to being parents, and I really do believe that it is A JOB and you need to be ready for the challenges, rewards and risks.

Too many people have kids, then treat them like chattel or a burden.

As an adoptive parent, I had to jump through hoops of fire to prove I was ready willing and able to parent. Kids deserve to have parents that understand the commitment.

And to the comment about "placing your child for adoption if you got pregnant"...GOOD FOR YOU. Maybe if everyone took a life so seriously and didn't abort my chance at adopting again some day might be realized.

My rant.

Erikaamorris

[Spidey]

The two sentences quoted above seem contradictory, don't you think? (bolding mine)

All of life is a contradiction isn't it. I didn't know having kids would make me feel this way, but it does.

Was it my goal when i started having them thinking it would make me feel complete, no. But it happened. What am I supposed to do, hide those feelings

[Nikita]

Oh I am sooo familiar with the 'when you get older, you'll change your mind'. I heard that all my teenage and adult years. Well, wrong, I've never changed my mind. Some people obviously cannot understand not wanting children, personally I cannot understand people wanting to have kids to such an extreme that it consumes their whole focus in life and causes emotional chaos if it doesn't happen. But I do accept that people feel that way even if I don't understand it. What rankles me is that those who do want children just cannot accept the decisions of those of us who don't want them.

If you really look deeply at it, almost every reason to have kids turns out to be selfish. It seems counterintuitive, as raising children is very hard work, but the REASONS for wanting kids are all essentially ego-based...you want to not grow old alone, you want someone to love you unconditionally, you want to leave a part of yourself in the world when you die, etc.



None of which are good reasons to have children, as they're all based on what they can do for you, not what you can do for them. Talk about loading an unborn with these kind of expectations....now that is selfish.

. Frankly, I don't think I have the patience to take care of them and I know for a fact I'd be an awful mother.

An excellent reason not to have children and again a selfless one. I'm the same way, I've always known I wouldn't be a good mom, so I'm not about to subject children to me as a mother....again, selfish or selfless?

Not everyone is cut out for motherhood. Besides, I'd be doing the child a disservice by bringing him/her into the world and not taking the best possible care of it as possible.

Wow, googelygoop, you remind me of myself in recognizing these things and doing the responsible thing of NOT having children. Far too many people don't/won't make good parents, and have them anyway because THEY want them. Are the children of those people better off being born to someone who knows they won't be a good parent....not likely. There is no truer statement than 'Not everyone is cut out for motherhood'. Again very responsible to recognize if you are one of those and not bring children into the world.


Just to all the younger ones on here in their early to mid 20's. never say never. it is your choice not to and thats great, but time has a way of changing your mind.



Sorry but I have to disagree. I said never long before I was in my 20's. I'm well past that now and I never had moment's doubt or changed my mine.


The entire point of our existance is to procreate. If you haven't done so then you really had no reason to exist in the first place.

LOL...that's a religious belief....and one I don't subscribe to in any way, shape or form. I've been able to more good for others by the mere fact that I don't have children and therefore have the time and money for helping others. I'd say that's an excellent reason to exist.

[QUOTE=YnD;5575140]When you retire, you got your kids to take care of you...[QUOTE]

Hearing this one sickens me. I would rather kill myself than force my kids to take care of me.


+1

Something that's always been a point of contention for me is how many bazillions of people ask...'but why dont' you want kids', like I should justify myself. I feel strongly that the question 'why DO you want kids' is the more important one because so damn many people have children simply because 'that's what you do next', without ever considering whether they could be selfless enough to be a good parent, without ever giving a moment's thought to why they are having them.. IMO it's those having children who should first put their mind to why they DO want kids and can they give kids what they need and deserve. It's these people who, for the sake of the children, need to examine their motives for having them.

Personally, I'm not hurting a damn soul by not having children. But many are hurting the children they bring into this world for not having thoughtfully considered why they are having them.

Wow, from reading the threads on here, there are a lot of people that actually hate kids. May not say it outright, but thats the feel I get.



That's not being fair or necessarily true. I love kids, my nieces and nephews mean more to me than my own life and I would give mine to save theirs in a heartbeat. I have the utmost love and compassion for children. Which is why I won't have my own, because, once again, I know that I would not make a good mom.

[Tijuana]

I think it also has to do with your family, ie cousins aunts, uncles, I love the idea or well actually the fact that I have soo many cousins and most that are my age, and I love seeing how big and connected my family is. I love the idea of coming together at christmas, easter etc, and just thinking about if everyone didnt have any kids, would it really be the same?

[bionicbadger]

Kids are annoying, unless they are your own.

[3weddings]

When I was in my 20's I was very content being the 'aunt'. I loved hanging out with the nieces, spoiling them and sending them home. I was very consumed in my career and travel, and wanted nothing to do with raising my own kids. I dated...a lot, not finding the right person to commence a life with, while my friends were having extravagant weddings and babies.

When I turned 30, all that changed drastically, I met a man who changed me. Immediately I knew my life would be different, he spoke of kids and wanting time (he's 6 years my senior) and whammo, we started a family within months of meeting! I now have three weddings here....three little girls running around , tiring me out, needing me. As independent as I was a decade ago, I could never turn back time and ask for things to be different.

I never in my wildest dreams (or my mother's for that matter) thought I would be a parent, let alone love being one! Things change, they really do.

[gei]

Oh I am sooo familiar with the 'when you get older, you'll change your mind'. I heard that all my teenage and adult years. Well, wrong, I've never changed my mind.

Perhaps you haven't YET... but one day you certainly will. I think everyone will. And it will be the biggest regret of your life. Leaving the world having left nothing behind.

LOL...that's a religious belief....and one I don't subscribe to in any way, shape or form.

It could be a religious reason, but I'm not religious at all. I was speaking biologically... there is no other point to existance.

[Nikita]

Perhaps you haven't YET... but one day you certainly will. I think everyone will. And it will be the biggest regret of your life. Leaving the world having left nothing behind.

It could be a religious reason, but I'm not religious at all. I was speaking biologically... there is no other point to existance.

Certainly will? Obviously you are simply NOT open to the slightest possibility that some people never have children and never regret it. BTW, I am past the biological age where it is safe to have children...and you're wrong, I never did change my mind while I could, and I have no regrets whatsoever. My ego isn't so big that it is important to leave something behind by having children. What I will leave behind is the good I've done for others which I couldn't have done but for the freedom being childless. IMO that is a very good point to existence. IMO the biological imperative is nice in theory, but out of touch with reality.

[Sheky]

No kids for me.

Kids are only great when they're not yours.

Plus I want to reserve the right to be the most childish person in any given relationship. So having kids would throw a monkey wrench into that plan.

[Spidey]

Certainly will? Obviously you are simply NOT open to the slightest possibility that some people never have children and never regret it. BTW, I am past the biological age where it is safe to have children...and you're wrong, I never did change my mind while I could, and I have no regrets whatsoever. My ego isn't so big that it is important to leave something behind by having children. What I will leave behind is the good I've done for others which I couldn't have done but for the freedom being childless. IMO that is a very good point to existence. IMO the biological imperative is nice in theory, but out of touch with reality.

You're really ragging on parents with the whole "Ego" thing Why do you keep saying its ego. You think every parent in the world have children because of ego.

Its the same as saying the people don't have kids because they are selfish and only care about themselves. Thats not the truth at all, but if i say that, how is it different if you say its "ego" to have kids.

[Nikita]

Don't get me wrong Spidey, I do NOT believe that most people have children for egotistical reasons. I was responding to Gei's contention that I will regret leaving nothing behind, meaning children. I do believe that having children for that purpose is an ego thing, and is a wrong reason to have them.

[Spidey]

Don't get me wrong Spidey, I do NOT believe that most people have children for egotistical reasons. I was responding to Gei's contention that I will regret leaving nothing behind, meaning children. I do believe that having children for that purpose is an ego thing, and is a wrong reason to have them.


Thank you for clearing that up. When I had kids it wasn't in my mind about leaving something behind, but its a fact that will happen.

The world 100 years from now will be very different, and withe people making the conscious decision not to have kids more and more, what will the population be like. We don't know we wont be around. But someone 100 years from now will be able to look back at me and my history, whether its my grandkids, or great grandkids and find out where they came from

[danfromwaterloo]

That sums it up pretty well.

I'm not sure that there are many mature adults (ie: no prego teenagers but folks 25 years old +) who say "I wish I did not have kids. I hate the ones I have".

They don't say it. They just think it.

[YnD]

I've never seen my decision to not have children as selfish. In fact, I believe that if you recognize that your lifestyle wouldn't be great for kids, or you wouldn't be a great parent (cuz not everyone does), it's in fact very selfLESS to recognize that and not have them.

Are you scared of the pain?
Or did you not find the right person to have it with?
Or can you not afford it?

There must be some underlying reason...

Cause when your "too old" you will look back and say... "I coulda woulda shoulda"...

[Nikita]

Thank you for clearing that up. When I had kids it wasn't in my mind about leaving something behind, but its a fact that will happen.

The world 100 years from now will be very different, and withe people making the conscious decision not to have kids more and more, what will the population be like. We don't know we wont be around. But someone 100 years from now will be able to look back at me and my history, whether its my grandkids, or great grandkids and find out where they came from

And that's fine for those to whom that matters, it just doesn't happen to matter to me.

Are you scared of the pain?
Or did you not find the right person to have it with?
Or can you not afford it?

There must be some underlying reason...

Cause when your "too old" you will look back and say... "I coulda woulda shoulda"...

Did you read my above post, I'm already too old to safely bear children, have been for a few years now....I'm not looking back saying I coulda, woulda, shoulda. In my entire life I've never had a single moment of even uncertainty in my choice not to have children.

Why must there be some underlying reason? My reasons have been stated clearly, there's nothing more nefarious going on than that. No I'm not scared of the pain, having met the right man to me means a man who shares my desire to not have children (and yes I've met him). And yes, I can well afford to have children if I so wanted.

Again, those questions turned around NEED to be asked of those bearing children, as a start anyway.
1) Are you prepared for the pain?
2) Have you met the right person whom shares the desire for children and is capable of being a good parent?
3) Do you have enough money so that the child doesn't suffer?

Perhaps if people seriously considered those questions, they will have children when and if, in fact, they can give all of that and more to a child. Otherwise it's irresponsible to bring children into a family not able or willing to provide that to the child.

[danfromwaterloo]

Well, I guess it's time to add my two cents to this whole issue:

I've known since very early in my life that I've wanted children, and that being a parent was basically the most important goal I have in life. I can't really understand why I feel that way. Its just something so intrinsic into my being that NOT having children would leave me completely unfulfilled. Adopted, natural, doesn't matter. The only way I'm going to feel like a true success in life is if I can be a successful parent.

I never truly understood people who claim they're too selfish to have children - it seems like such a vain comment to make. I was always taught that being selfish is a bad thing - something you should desire to change. So using it as an excuse seems almost accepting of it, giving it some sort of condonation. "I would donate to charity, but I'm far too greedy." or "I would stop beating my girlfriend, but I'm far too violent." Sounds equally as bizarre.

It's not encumbent on people to have children - and the majority of people that do not simply have done so because they haven't found the right person to have children with in the given amount of time. But in today's world where EVERYTHING seems to come and go (careers, possessions, money) you would think more people would try to lock into one of the only things in the world that is permanent.... tattoos ... er .... parenting.

/$0.02

[Bullseye]

NOT having children would leave me completely unfulfilled.

The only way I'm going to feel like a true success in life is if I can be a successful parent.

This is exactly what I'm talking about here, for parents, it's all about me, me, me. What will having a child do for ME?

Of course, everything in life is selfish, really. Even giving money or volunteering, people essentially are doing it so they will feel better about themselves for having done something righteous and good.

I'm no different, though, I'm just honest enough to call it like it is.

[sw1ft]

Here's my scenario:

Currently 23, was diagnosed with a brain tumour at the age of 16. Back in 2000, I did a lot of reading about brain tumours and met various individuals who came to share their stories. ex) some random father: "my daughter died of a brain tumour at the age of 12. I will be praying for you". Fortunately, I had a successful operation (kudos to Sick Kids Hospital).

During that time, I did some research and read up on Amy Tan's biography (author of "The Joy Luck Club"). I learned that both her father and brother died of brain tumours, so it was evident that brain tumours were hereditary.

My concern is that if I have children, they might end up with tumours. The risks are too great. Meh, not a huge deal.

[Yaowsers]

I think couples who try to conceive are selfish. There are so many homeless kids in this world. Why not adopt a nice African child?

[UrbanPoet]

Don't get me wrong Spidey, I do NOT believe that most people have children for egotistical reasons. I was responding to Gei's contention that I will regret leaving nothing behind, meaning children. I do believe that having children for that purpose is an ego thing, and is a wrong reason to have them.

Not really... Just b/c you want to have kids for 'ego' reasons doesnt mean you wont love your children, and try your best to raise them up to be well rounded individuals.

To me... Having children is just a part of life.
Humans are social creatures. We have friends, family. We also show empathy, love, and hate. Bringing a child into the world is just that... adding 1 more head to a pack that you will nurture and care for until it can 'walk on its own'.

I think its embedded into human nature. Its our instinct to have a family and to care for the ones closest to us. ITs the reason why even the most level headed guy would wanna kick ass after hearing her daughter is going on her first date... Or the reason why a mom goes crazy over the slightest thing like her baby boy falling off his bike.

Even the most dysfunctional family will have parents that will eventually go 'aww... thats my boy\girl right there.".

I cant imagine having a life without the memories of family picnics, bbqs, watching them go to off to university. Watching them go to their awkward first date. Trying to teach them how to drive, and seeing their face light up when you finally trust them with the keys (after the many times rejecting them) etc...

[3weddings]

I think couples who try to conceive are selfish. There are so many homeless kids in this world. Why not adopt a nice African child?

Ego
Cost
RedTape

[Bullseye]

Ego
Cost
RedTape

True. Cost and red tape are hige for adopting a foreign child, just had some friends go through the process. They look at EVERY aspect of your life, it's very intrusive. Even more than you would expect, given the responsibility.

It's much easier to adopt a local child, of course, but it won't be a baby, and it will likely be a child with either a traumatic history, or something like Fetal Alcohol syndrome. Most couples don't want any part of that, they want a perfect little newborn.

[dhamilton]

I'm almost 26 and don't want kids. I'm married for more than 2 years, own a house, 2 dogs and I'm happy with that. I have a feeling my wife is going to want to have kids, however. When we first got married we said we were never going to have kids...hasn't changed for me :)

I can't stand kids, they're so annoying...and time consuming. Oh, and they cost a lot of $$$!

But kudos to those that do and especially to those that are good parents.

[3weddings]

It's much easier to adopt a local child, of course, but it won't be a baby, and it will likely be a child with either a traumatic history, or something like Fetal Alcohol syndrome. Most couples don't want any part of that, they want a perfect little newborn.

It is indeed, but age is a factor too. I have a few friends now in their 40's and even though they are quite settled in theirs lives with incredible income and have their health they do go to other countries to adopt (bless their hearts!)

I don't think the public is aware that there is an age restriction in Canada for adoptions. I don't know the exact age, but It has to be somewhere along the lines of the parent's combined age being under 65. It doesn't matter than financially they are stable, employed and fit in every way, but their age determines elegibility :(

Another fear is when adopting within your own country, the birth parent(s) have every right to change their mind, which is highly unlikely when adopting from a third world country.

[dirkpitt]

I don't think the public is aware that there is an age restriction in Canada for adoptions. I don't know the exact age, but It has to be somewhere along the lines of the parent's combined age being under 65. It doesn't matter than financially they are stable, employed and fit in every way, but their age determines elegibility
Not to be a nay-sayer but my sister and her husband didn't adopt until their combined age was awful close to 80...

It would be interesting to know the exact cut-off, if you can find the source.

[perplexed_one]

Of course, everything in life is selfish, really. Even giving money or volunteering, people essentially are doing it so they will feel better about themselves for having done something righteous and good.

I'm no different, though, I'm just honest enough to call it like it is.

that's a very pessimistic way of looking at things.

i think the philosophical viewpoint you are referring to is inherently flawed in that selfishness entails one person benefiting and the other not getting in on it OR even worse actually getting screwed for something.

In volunteering and charity, the benefactor actually gives something up to help someone and if they happen to get something out of it (friendship, sense of belonging, or happiness) then great because it balances out in the end.

[perplexed_one]

i havent really decided if i want children.

If i do decide to, i would take care of them. but as for sacrificing myself for them and leaving behind a fortune, no way. i dont believe in generational wealth. leaving behind money to help them get by, ok. but leaving a fortune they didnt work hard for, hell NO. Besides you should enjoying the money you make.

currently i dont think i would be an ideal parent.

[nickia]

kids are awesome. I worked at an amusement park and there were so many kids. I m going to have my own some day:twisted:

[YnD]

You could put it this way too...

"You" wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for your parents decision to have you... same goes for the siblings you may/maynot have...

[hyperion]

Anyone who doesn't want children must have learned how to deny their basic human instict, probably through selfishness, selfdeception or plain foolishness.

[sixer]

Life isn't complete without them. I really feel sad for those that aren't able to have any. Such a blessing.

They make your life complete.

For those that don't want any, and just want to have money, travel, etc, you'll regret it when your older.

[ashs]

i love my son and am glad i had him, its my wife i wish i didnt have :twisted:

[nickia]

Life isn't complete without them. I really feel sad for those that aren't able to have any. Such a blessing.

They make your life complete.

For those that don't want any, and just want to have money, travel, etc, you'll regret it when your older.

i know. im still really young but I already know i want kids in the future. Not now but for sure in the future.

[ullyeus]

I find it strange that so many people with kids say it's great....but really....they don't have any choice as they got them.

I'd like kids once in awhile...or grandkids would kick ass...but I won't ever have kids myself, far too much work for too little gain.

When I see a brat screaming in a store and the parents just sitting there with that defeated look...yikes...

[ullyeus]

Life isn't complete without them. I really feel sad for those that aren't able to have any. Such a blessing.

They make your life complete.

For those that don't want any, and just want to have money, travel, etc, you'll regret it when your older.

Some people seem to need kids to make their life complete, I've always found that strange.

[ullyeus]

Anyone who doesn't want children must have learned how to deny their basic human instict, probably through selfishness, selfdeception or plain foolishness.

Lots of hostility in this thread.

I can deny my basic human instinct in this scenario, as I can many others...which stops me from gorging on food till I get fat...or raping my neighbor if I want sex..or stealing a car if I want it.

To embrace it as a "basic human instinct" is bizarre, we should be trying to raise above our basic human instinct in many cases. Denying our basic instincts got us out of caves in many scenarios.

[YnD]

Some people seem to need kids to make their life complete, I've always found that strange.

Not necessarily... but it does create life...hence...continuing your family bloodline...

[ullyeus]

That sums it up pretty well.

I'm not sure that there are many mature adults (ie: no prego teenagers but folks 25 years old +) who say "I wish I did not have kids. I hate the ones I have".

I agree, though I wonder how many think it...even if they don't say it.

[ullyeus]

It's easy to say you don't want them when you're young. But I'm sure down the road when you're all old and have nothing exciting left in your lives, you will deeply regret not having anyone to pass on your wisdom to, and to take care of you in your old age. Of course by then it will be too late.

The entire point of our existance is to procreate. If you haven't done so then you really had no reason to exist in the first place.

a) I plan to keep many exciting things going on in my life!

b) That's not the entire point in MY existence.

c) Seems really selfish to have kids just so they can amuse you and keep you excited.

[ullyeus]

Why wouldn't you want to have kids?

It'll continue the family bloodline/tree.... more people the better...
It'll help you grow as a person with the responsibility etc...
When you retire, you got your kids to take care of you...

They'll be a liability/expense up till university (with the exception of chores and giving rides) but then they'll switch over to asset upon graduation and a career...

Why is "More people the better"?

A dog...or career..or one of a thousand other things could help me grow as a person.

I highly doubt that a child would ever turn into a true financial asset. And I think its horrible to expect them to support you.

[ullyeus]

Wow, from reading the threads on here, there are a lot of people that actually hate kids. May not say it outright, but thats the feel I get.

cut

But saying having kids is selfish on the parents part I think is going a little far.

But then thats me

Different perspectives, I don't see people saying they would hate kids...in fact I see more people calling the childless selfish or stupid....

[ullyeus]

Kids are annoying, unless they are your own.

then they are annoying to everyone else! :)

[ullyeus]

Perhaps you haven't YET... but one day you certainly will. I think everyone will. And it will be the biggest regret of your life. Leaving the world having left nothing behind.
.

any reason you are so adamant about this?

[gman]

I think couples who try to conceive are selfish. There are so many homeless kids in this world. Why not adopt a nice African child?

A lot of people prefer to buy new cars and new houses. Some even want to build their own houses from scratch.

Kids are annoying, unless they are your own.

I agree almost 100% (because may be 1% of other people's kids is not annoying). So, are you going to have your own kids?

[YnD]

then they are annoying to everyone else! :)

Well if your into sports... nothing would be better then watching your kid start one to the point where your attending their games on the weekend to cheer for them.... and the playing catch with the baseball/football in the backyard... (yah I'd prefer a boy).


Why is "More people the better"?
A dog...or career..or one of a thousand other things could help me grow as a person.

I highly doubt that a child would ever turn into a true financial asset. And I think its horrible to expect them to support you.


Whats wrong with having a kid(s), a career, and a dog?... thats what I call a family..... sort of like mine now... 2 working parents with 2 bros and a sis + a dog ....

[ullyeus]

You could put it this way too...

"You" wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for your parents decision to have you... same goes for the siblings you may/maynot have...

well thats an obvious statement.

Are you saying I have to do everything my parents did?

[ullyeus]

Not necessarily... but it does create life...hence...continuing your family bloodline...

which...has been pointed out to you before....doesn't matter to a lot of people.

Why would I care if my "bloodline" continues on? I'll be dead...and my contributions to humanity as a whole will help civilization go on.

[YnD]

well thats an obvious statement.

Are you saying I have to do everything my parents did?

Well you wouldn't exist if they didn't...

I know I'm stating the obvious but you get my drift...

[BadDrafter]

I won't be having any children, ever.

[ullyeus]

Anyone else find that sometimes parents have kids almost as a diversion for their own life and problems?

It seems that if they can funnel all their energy into a child and avoid their own shortcomings they are happy.

[ullyeus]

I won't be having any children, ever.

you're a jerk?




hahahh kidding kidding...

[YnD]

Anyone else find that sometimes parents have kids almost as a diversion for their own life and problems?

It seems that if they can funnel all their energy into a child and avoid their own shortcomings they are happy.

I felt sorry for those black girls back in highschool at age 15-17 pushing strollers around with there kids... Not sure if they chose to have the kid on purpose but they sure got knocked up...

[BadDrafter]

you're a jerk?




hahahh kidding kidding...

Having lost much of my teenage years and adult life to illness, I just want to enjoy my life while I'm still alive.

It's hard to explain to somebody who hasn't lost 8 years of their life and is starting over again. There will be no kids.

My reason is as valid to me as other's are valid to them.

[ullyeus]

Having lost much of my teenage years and adult life to illness, I just want to enjoy my life while I'm still alive.

It's hard to explain to somebody who hasn't lost 8 years of their life and is starting over again. There will be no kids.

yes yes, I've heard your story before. I love how you always add that "unless you are me" thing.

could be argued that you would enjoy life more with a child.

[BadDrafter]

could be argued that you would enjoy life more with a child.

Living viciously through a child would perhaps bring a smile to my face.

It would have to be so long in the future that it is right up there with any what if scenario in ten years or more.

After all I'm going back to school for four to eight years. Eight because there are rumors that in the future a P. Eng will need a masters degree.

Yes I plan on living the dorm lifestyle, out of a quarter life crisis at 27. I'm trying to take back everything that was stolen from me. A child would mess that up.

Though a child for me is possible, it's as likely as waiting for Apple to support other music players/formats in iTunes. This is also possible but highly improbable.

[Stunt_101]

i can see myself with a child 8-10 years from now, i'm 20

[danfromwaterloo]

Living viciously through a child would perhaps bring a smile to my face.

Isn't the word vicariously?

[sandeeS]

i can see myself with a child 8-10 years from now, i'm 20

No chance with todays Canadian women. unless you want to adapt on your own.
No women today will sacrifice so much for you...
or on other hand its too much to ask from them...

[gman]

No chance with todays Canadian women. unless you want to adapt on your own.
No women today will sacrifice so much for you...
or on other hand its too much to ask from them...

Actually, a lot of women todays born their kids late (after 30) because of what they want in their career. One of my sister-in-law had one after 40. Another one had the first one when she was ~35 and the 2nd one after 40. My own sister is still trying to get her first one and she is already 37.

[poedua]

so far it seems like most people here dont want kids.
or the ones who want kids or have kids haven't spoken up.

I've got 4 kids........

- 18
- 17
- 15
- 13

..........what would you like to know ?

Our first child was born when my wife was 32 years old btw.

[Nikita]

You could put it this way too...

"You" wouldn't be alive right now if it wasn't for your parents decision to have you... same goes for the siblings you may/maynot have...

If I wasn't alive right now because I'd never been born, how could that matter to me??

Anyone who doesn't want children must have learned how to deny their basic human instict, probably through selfishness, selfdeception or plain foolishness.

Acting on what you call human instinct (which I dont' believe it is or should be) instead of well-thought ought decison has resulted in children having children, abusive people having children, pedophiles having children, children being born with AIDS, crack babies, babies with Fetal Alcohol Syndrom, children living in abject poverty etc. etc. Yeah....yaaayyy for acting on instinct with something as important as children, we can see how that's been working out.

Life isn't complete without them. I really feel sad for those that aren't able to have any. Such a blessing.

They make your life complete.

For those that don't want any, and just want to have money, travel, etc, you'll regret it when your older.

I am older (though not near enough to need children to support or take care of me, a burden I'd never want to put on a child anyway), I've never had a single regret.

As I've said before, my decision to not have children has freed me up to help those kinds of children mentioned in my above paragraph, the children who's messed-up parents had them because, well, that's just what people do...it's basic human instinct :rolleyes:. That brings me joy, fulfillment and supreme satisfaction.

[Spidey]

Definite hostility between the "want to have" kids and the "don't want to have" kids.

In my opinion, you don't want to have kids, thats fine. Your decision. If you regret it later in life so be it, or if you don't regret it thats great to.

But al lot of the "don't want to's" seem to be saying that we with kids only have them to cover up our shortcomings, or to distract us from life, etc.

I don't understand that. We all have short comings on here I'm sure in one way or another, whether we have kids or not.

But it seems that a lot of the "do nots" say the parents are selfish for having them because of what ever reason.

So thats saying I'm selfish because I wanted to have kids. You need to explain that more.

Is it not the same saying that the "do nots" are just as selfish or more, because they only want to worry about themselves all the time, and don't want to take on the responsibility of another life, or to inconvenience themselves.

Sure raising kids is hard, the hardest thing you can ever do. Harder than anything the people that will never have them can experience. Your life is totally detoured for 20 years, then you get back on track.

But to keep saying its selfish to have kids, I still need further explanation on that

[Menace]

A very good story.

You still have time to drive your dream car? ;)

When I was in my 20's I was very content being the 'aunt'. I loved hanging out with the nieces, spoiling them and sending them home. I was very consumed in my career and travel, and wanted nothing to do with raising my own kids. I dated...a lot, not finding the right person to commence a life with, while my friends were having extravagant weddings and babies.

When I turned 30, all that changed drastically, I met a man who changed me. Immediately I knew my life would be different, he spoke of kids and wanting time (he's 6 years my senior) and whammo, we started a family within months of meeting! I now have three weddings here....three little girls running around , tiring me out, needing me. As independent as I was a decade ago, I could never turn back time and ask for things to be different.

I never in my wildest dreams (or my mother's for that matter) thought I would be a parent, let alone love being one! Things change, they really do.

[Nikita]

Definite hostility between the "want to have" kids and the "don't want to have" kids.

In my opinion, you don't want to have kids, thats fine. Your decision. If you regret it later in life so be it, or if you don't regret it thats great to.

But al lot of the "don't want to's" seem to be saying that we with kids only have them to cover up our shortcomings, or to distract us from life, etc.

I don't understand that. We all have short comings on here I'm sure in one way or another, whether we have kids or not.

But it seems that a lot of the "do nots" say the parents are selfish for having them because of what ever reason.

So thats saying I'm selfish because I wanted to have kids. You need to explain that more.

Is it not the same saying that the "do nots" are just as selfish or more, because they only want to worry about themselves all the time, and don't want to take on the responsibility of another life, or to inconvenience themselves.

Sure raising kids is hard, the hardest thing you can ever do. Harder than anything the people that will never have them can experience. Your life is totally detoured for 20 years, then you get back on track.

But to keep saying its selfish to have kids, I still need further explanation on that

Agreed. Personally I don't see the connection between selfishness and having/not having kids. If one doesn't have kids, just whom are they being selfish toward? If someone does want kids, it's only selfish if they recognize that they cannot provide for children yet do it anyway. And by provide, I'm talking financially and emotionally.

[Bullseye]

But it seems that a lot of the "do nots" say the parents are selfish for having them because of what ever reason.

So thats saying I'm selfish because I wanted to have kids. You need to explain that more.

Is it not the same saying that the "do nots" are just as selfish or more, because they only want to worry about themselves all the time, and don't want to take on the responsibility of another life, or to inconvenience themselves.

Sure raising kids is hard, the hardest thing you can ever do. Harder than anything the people that will never have them can experience. Your life is totally detoured for 20 years, then you get back on track.

But to keep saying its selfish to have kids, I still need further explanation on that

Firstly, I'm not a 'do not', as I posted, I have two great little boys. Secondly, I've already covered the reasons several times why being a parent is essentially an ego-gratifying endeavour. Please re-read my posts above and if you have issue with any specific point you'd like to debate, let it fly.

Just because some people are not honest enough with themselves doesn't make it untrue.

[gman]

In different age, you have different taste and different preference. You may like pop now but hate it years later. You may drink beer now but prefer wine years later.

It is hard to tell if you like certain thing before you actually are in that position. Personally, I hate kids. I hate kids even when I was a kid. Hence, I did not play with anyone who was younger than me or in my own age (harder to call those who were older than me kid when I was a kid). When I went to school, my classmates were 1 or 2 years older than me. When I was a teenager, I could deal with people in my own age. When I got even older, I could deal with people even younger. It seems that the older you are, the younger people you want to hang out with. May be that's why senior like to hang out with their grandkids. Like my mom, she does not want to hang out with me. She wants to hang out with my kids.

However, all these had nothing to do with my decision to have kids. In fact, I never decided to have kid. The plan was 0 kid. It just happened. Since I hate kids that much, my joy of having kids was actually 2x of most people. That is when the bar was setting so low and the outcome was so good, you enjoy that more.

Was raising kid hard? For me, no. It was actually pretty easy (that was a lot easier than I could dream of) although I was the one who did almost everything after the kids were born. For me, it was quiet fun and that fit into my philosophy --- that is whatever I do, I have to enjoy the process.

Now, if you ask me if I want kids, hell yes. When I was 20 something, hell no.

[Spidey]

Firstly, I'm not a 'do not', as I posted, I have two great little boys. Secondly, I've already covered the reasons several times why being a parent is essentially an ego-gratifying endeavor. Please re-read my posts above and if you have issue with any specific point you'd like to debate, let it fly.

Just because some people are not honest enough with themselves doesn't make it untrue.

But what you say is your opinion, correct. But that doesn't make it true or untrue. Opinions are opinions, facts are facts. You cant "prove" that being a parent is essentially an ego-gratifying endeavor

Thats just your opinion. And thats fine, everyone can have an opinion, but yours is no more right or wrong than my opinion.

[Bullseye]

But what you say is your opinion, correct. But that doesn't make it true or untrue. Opinions are opinions, facts are facts. You cant "prove" that being a parent is essentially an ego-gratifying endeavor

Thats just your opinion. And thats fine, everyone can have an opinion, but yours is no more right or wrong than my opinion.

Look at every reason posted in this thread why people say you should have kids, every single one has 'I' or 'Me' in it. I want to grow as a person, I want to have someone to take care of me when I'm old, my life will not be complete, etc.

That's 'proof' enough for me that it's an ego thing.

[Spidey]

Look at every reason posted in this thread why people say you should have kids, every single one has 'I' or 'Me' in it. I want to grow as a person, I want to have someone to take care of me when I'm old, my life will not be complete, etc.

That's 'proof' enough for me that it's an ego thing.

Im gonna search all my posts for I and me. I will change them to you and they. Will that make things different :cheesygri

[Menace]

Please do not forget when you change your mind to have kids from years of hating kids, you may not be able to have them.

[Nikita]

Please do not forget when you change your mind to have kids from years of hating kids, you may not be able to have them.

You say 'when you change your mind' as though it's a foregone conclusion. YOu see to have some real difficulty accepting that everyone is different and doesn't hold the same opinions as you or want the same things you want....which is a good thing IMO...if everyone thought one way, how boring would life be.

In any event, I can't wait for the day I'm not able to have children. Birth control is a pain in the a*s*s and poses healthrisks.

[BadDrafter]

Isn't the word vicariously?

Stupid Firefox spell check!>:(

[yan84]

I cannot stand kids but I would love to have my own. I think one is never a true woman until she has experienced motherhood. I would love to experience that special bond between a mother and a child. How wonderful it would be to have someone whom you love and care for unconditionally.

[dirkpitt]

Stupid Firefox spell check!>:(
It was a funny typo, anyway... :lol:

[sxz]

To have children is great and I'm glad there are a lot of people who choose to so I don't have to bother with it.

[konfusion666]

Well, I guess it's time to add my two cents to this whole issue:

I've known since very early in my life that I've wanted children, and that being a parent was basically the most important goal I have in life. I can't really understand why I feel that way. Its just something so intrinsic into my being that NOT having children would leave me completely unfulfilled. Adopted, natural, doesn't matter. The only way I'm going to feel like a true success in life is if I can be a successful parent.

I never truly understood people who claim they're too selfish to have children - it seems like such a vain comment to make. I was always taught that being selfish is a bad thing - something you should desire to change. So using it as an excuse seems almost accepting of it, giving it some sort of condonation. "I would donate to charity, but I'm far too greedy." or "I would stop beating my girlfriend, but I'm far too violent." Sounds equally as bizarre.

It's not encumbent on people to have children - and the majority of people that do not simply have done so because they haven't found the right person to have children with in the given amount of time. But in today's world where EVERYTHING seems to come and go (careers, possessions, money) you would think more people would try to lock into one of the only things in the world that is permanent.... tattoos ... er .... parenting.

/$0.02

The way I feel is just like you Dan, and if I was inclined to start a debate, I would respond to Bullseye's rebuttal by pointing out that NOT having children is perhaps more "selfish" than having children. Logically, that's how it would seem to me.

[konfusion666]

Look at every reason posted in this thread why people say you should have kids, every single one has 'I' or 'Me' in it. I want to grow as a person, I want to have someone to take care of me when I'm old, my life will not be complete, etc.

That's 'proof' enough for me that it's an ego thing.

Why are we talking about psychological concepts such as "ego"?

Hasn't it already been proved by scientists that the human drive to have children is more of a biological imperative than anything else?

[Nikita]

The way I feel is just like you Dan, and if I was inclined to start a debate, I would respond to Bullseye's rebuttal by pointing out that NOT having children is perhaps more "selfish" than having children. Logically, that's how it would seem to me.

I so don't understant the so-called logic. Who are we being selfish toward, our never-to-be born children?? Again, not everyone has what it takes to be a great parent....just look around, damn some of these people would have done their children a favor if they hadn't brought them into this world. Recognizing you wouldn't make a good parent AND THEREFORE not having any is selfless, not selfish.

[konfusion666]

I so don't understant the so-called logic. Who are we being selfish toward, our never-to-be born children?? Again, not everyone has what it takes to be a great parent....just look around, damn some of these people would have done their children a favor if they hadn't brought them into this world. Recognizing you wouldn't make a good parent AND THEREFORE not having any is selfless, not selfish.

I have heard that same thing ("I wouldn't make a good parent") from some people who I think would actually make very good parents.

So who is right, me or them?

[gman]

I have heard that same thing ("I wouldn't make a good parent") from some people who I think would actually make very good parents.

So who is right, me or them?

Both. Just the scale is different.

[Nikita]

I have heard that same thing ("I wouldn't make a good parent") from some people who I think would actually make very good parents.

So who is right, me or them?

Them.

[i6s1]

So who is right, me or them?

Me.

[konfusion666]

"Both"... "Them"... "Me".... :-0

[UrbanPoet]

Why are we talking about psychological concepts such as "ego"?

Hasn't it already been proved by scientists that the human drive to have children is more of a biological imperative than anything else?

lol thats true...
I mean... look @ how guys think about sex. We always want it ;D
Im sure we're wired that way so we can ensure the population is sustained.

[DJXP]

I am really on the fence when it comes to this question. If I do I will be a lot older and things can change. At this current time I would say no, but I am open to the idea still.

What I find very ironic in this world, is some of the people that should have kids don't, and some of the people that definitely shouldn't, do. I really don't like the way kids of today are turning out (not all, I've met some very well brought up kids as well), and I guess how kids are in the future will be a factor in my choice as well.

[Bullseye]

Why are we talking about psychological concepts such as "ego"?

Hasn't it already been proved by scientists that the human drive to have children is more of a biological imperative than anything else?

Ego and selfish go hand in hand, and the theme of the post seems to be what is selfish and what is not.

The argument that it's all simply biological is one of the few reasons to have children that I would consider not inherrently selfish. Oddly, another would be a case like Spidey, where he didn't really 'want' to have kids, it just happened. He obviously had no ego-based motive for wanting them, but he was happy to care for them when it happened. That is selfless. So in a bizarre philisophical contradiction, people who actually DON'T want kids, but then end up with them and care for them, are not selfish, but people who DO want kids for ego-founded reasons, are. :cheesygri

[Diamondog]

Certainly not Travis Henry Of The Denver Broncos: http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/08/25/broncos-running-back-travis-henry-has-nine-children-by-nine-diff/

I took this from another posters thread in the Sports forum as I thought it was pertinent.

[konfusion666]

but people who DO want kids for ego-founded reasons, are. :cheesygri

So basically, yours and Nikita's contention is that ANY reason to "want" to have kids is inherently selfish - no way around that?

That is where I disagree.

However, not having kids, I can't really continue debating beyond this point.

[Bullseye]

So basically, yours and Nikita's contention is that ANY reason to "want" to have kids is inherently selfish - no way around that?

That is where I disagree.

However, not having kids, I can't really continue debating beyond this point.

There may be examples where wanting to have kids could be considered potentially selfless. Say you and your mate had super high IQ's, and you wanted to have a child because you thought there was a decent chance they may grow up and change the world for the better. That would be pretty selfless. As long as you didn't take any pride in their accomplishments yourself, of course. :lol:

Not wanting kids, on the other hand, there are quite a few reasons why that could be considered selfless. For example, I know people who are not having kids solely because they feel it irresponsible to bring another resource-sucking, pollution causing human into an already overpopulated world. That's pretty selfless of them.

[Nikita]

So basically, yours and Nikita's contention is that ANY reason to "want" to have kids is inherently selfish - no way around that?

That is where I disagree.

However, not having kids, I can't really continue debating beyond this point.

Oh no no, I do NOT believe that ANY reason to want kids is selfish, in fact having kids is what is inherently selfless in most circumstances. What I meant to say, and I apologize if my words seem to imply otherwise, is that some reasons people give for wanting kids IS selfish. But not even considering your reasons for having kids and just having them cuz that's the thing to do next in life, without considering if you can provide to children what they need and desire, or taking the time to really think about whether you'd make a good parent, yet having them anyway....that's what I consider selfish.

That said, I feel very strongly that being a parent is the hardest and most admirable job in the world. A job I don't think I'd be good at, that's why I feel it would be selfish of me to have them, the flip side being that's why I feel that I am being selfless to not have them.

[poedua]

Oh no no, I do NOT believe that ANY reason to want kids is selfish, in fact having kids is what is inherently selfless in most circumstances. What I meant to say, and I apologize if my words seem to imply otherwise, is that some reasons people give for wanting kids IS selfish. But not even considering your reasons for having kids and just having them cuz that's the thing to do next in life, without considering if you can provide to children what they need and desire, or taking the time to really think about whether you'd make a good parent, yet having them anyway....that's what I consider selfish.

That said, I feel very strongly that being a parent is the hardest and most admirable job in the world. A job I don't think I'd be good at, that's why I feel it would be selfish of me to have them, the flip side being that's why I feel that I am being selfless to not have them.

You simply have to do the best you can - nothing more , nothing less. I have 4 kids - ' doing your best ' is all you can hope for.

Besides, what makes you so convinced you wouldn't be ' good ' in the ' job ' of parent ?

Curious - what do other ' good ' parents bring to the table that you can't - or wont' ?

[Spidey]

So basically, yours and Nikita's contention is that ANY reason to "want" to have kids is inherently selfish - no way around that?

That is where I disagree.

However, not having kids, I can't really continue debating beyond this point.

I'm having a hard time believing that term as well.

He said everyone has a me or I in their reply. I know I did to, as in "I feel complete when we are wrestling"

I sure do, but was that my goal when I started having kids, no. But it was a pleasant after effect.

[grant]

Boy a lot of "pro-parent" posters on here sure are control freaks, practically ordering people to have kids. No wonder they like children, they can be their little puppets... for at least 6 years...

None of the no-kids people pointing out "..eventually you'll regret having kids..." even though several parents have secretly admitted they'd not do it if they could go back in time.

[UrbanPoet]

So basically, yours and Nikita's contention is that ANY reason to "want" to have kids is inherently selfish - no way around that?

That is where I disagree.

However, not having kids, I can't really continue debating beyond this point.

i dont understand how having kids is selfish...
I think its the most unselfish thing in the world. Unless you have kids i dont think youll understand the pain a woman has to go through, the financial hard ship, and all the work you gotta go through for someone you love unconditionally.

I find some people in this thread are so cold. Even though many families are dysfunctional at times... theres this special bond when it comes to family.

[danfromwaterloo]

i dont understand how having kids is selfish...
I think its the most unselfish thing in the world. Unless you have kids i dont think youll understand the pain a woman has to go through, the financial hard ship, and all the work you gotta go through for someone you love unconditionally.

I find some people in this thread are so cold. Even though many families are dysfunctional at times... theres this special bond when it comes to family.

Here's the argument: why do you want kids?

Invariably, you answer the question with something like "I want children becase I ..."; whatever you fill in the blank with has something to do with a reason for yourself.

I make the argument that EVERYTHING you do in this world is, for some reason, basically selfish. Even selfless acts, you do to feel good about yourself, and as such, is selfish in its own way - if you choose to define selfish that way.

My PERSONAL definition of selfish is the desire to benefit one's self disproportionately from others involved.