Are Group Buys Allowed on RFD?

[Jon Lai]

I did a group buy on RFD back in April for White DVD Cases (for Wii backups) and it was a success. People asked me to do another one, so I did, I posted a new one this morning.

Then, I got a PM from ncx saying that "selling items not in your property is against the rules" according to the rules:

Complete RFD Forum Rules & Tips - Read Before Posting - UPDATED Oct 23/06 (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/announcement.php?f=9&a=12)

I wasn't posting in the BST, I posted in Entertainment, which would have been the correct place to post it according to the item in question.

When I asked ncx if there was a specific clarification that this rule applies to group buys, he told me it's under the interpretation of this rule. I don't think that's good enough, but he's just the moderator here, he's just doing his job.

Now, I just want to ask, are group buys allowed on RFD? I understand the rule, but that rule is for the BST. If it indeed is not allowed, perhaps we can modify the rules so that it specifically dictates against group buys, and not the ordinary seller posting "friend's stuff" on the BST forums.

[nopn]

sound good idea, hope to be valid. so we would have more bargain power.

[Hellfire]

I think there has been a recent change in attitude toward group buys from the mods.

My Cineplex Group Buy thread got shut down as well, and I've run 3 of them previously with great success.

Urban's lotto pool seems to still be running though...

[mrfrostyman]

i participated in the first amc round of movie passes and that was allowed though there was a warning given becuase of the posibility of fraud i believe....

Went smooth as butter however, guess we need to wait for the big guys to rule in.

[Derek]

Our position has been we don't support group buys. However, we will probably have to review that and be a bit more clear due to some of the group buys that are being held.

We haven't updated the rules yet, but we will shortly, and group buys will not be allowed.

The reason is that it'll be almost impossible to trace if there's fraud. People are paying money upfront on the promise that the organizer will do what they've proposed. That's fine when they do, but if they don't then there's nothing that we can really do other than to ban them. It's quite risky so it's not something that we'll be able to support and will no longer be allowed.

[nopn]

Our position has been we don't support group buys. However, we will probably have to review that and be a bit more clear due to some of the group buys that are being held.

We haven't updated the rules yet, but we will shortly, and group buys will not be allowed.

The reason is that it'll be almost impossible to trace if there's fraud. People are paying money upfront on the promise that the organizer will do what they've proposed. That's fine when they do, but if they don't then there's nothing that we can really do other than to ban them. It's quite risky so it's not something that we'll be able to support and will no longer be allowed.

hope to hear your decision soon. I know some organizer try to make profit out of it. Other than that, this is not a bad idea.

I can recall one of the dell exclusive from RFD, to me, it's just another group buy held by your guys.

[Vladimir]

How about a group buy that is held officially by RFD?
If there is enough requests for a specific product then a moderator or administrator could manage the actual group buy, everyone forward them the money, and then distribute product accordingly?

[3weddings]

How about a group buy that is held officially by RFD?
If there is enough requests for a specific product then a moderator or administrator could manage the actual group buy, everyone forward them the money, and then distribute product accordingly?

I like this concept, especially for things like the recent popular CNE code thread. If RFD Admin would consider going up to bat for the members here by securing group rates it would be appreciated by many.

I realize it's a little off the original topic.

[Jon Lai]

I like this concept, especially for things like the recent popular CNE code thread. If RFD Admin would consider going up to bat for the members here by securing group rates it would be appreciated by many.

I realize it's a little off the original topic.

It'll never happen, RFD simply does not have the resources to handle things like these.

@ Derek
How are group buys more dangerous than paying someone for an item that requires to be shipped?

[Jon Lai]

I think there has been a recent change in attitude toward group buys from the mods.

My Cineplex Group Buy thread got shut down as well, and I've run 3 of them previously with great success.

Urban's lotto pool seems to still be running though...

+1

It beats me why the lotto pool is still being ran.. you don't even get any actual product from that except for a set of numbers, lol.

[Derek]

It'll never happen, RFD simply does not have the resources to handle things like these.

@ Derek
How are group buys more dangerous than paying someone for an item that requires to be shipped?

That's one of the reasons we required that the item be in the seller's possession. In a group buy that's not the case so that's one big difference.

[Derek]

+1

It beats me why the lotto pool is still being ran.. you don't even get any actual product from that except for a set of numbers, lol.

We're going to end the lotto pools as well to be fair and consistent.

[Hellfire]

That's one of the reasons we required that the item be in the seller's possession. In a group buy that's not the case so that's one big difference.

So if I were to purchase 300 movie tickets myself, and sell them on BST the mods would be cool with that? You won't impose the mass quantity rule and shut it down?

[Derek]

So if I were to purchase 300 movie tickets myself, and sell them on BST the mods would be cool with that? You won't impose the mass quantity rule and shut it down?

No, I never said that. That's still large quantities, which we don't allow.

The short answer is that group buys are not allowed. The risk of widespread fraud including hundreds of members is too high in our opinion.

[Jon Lai]

That's one of the reasons we required that the item be in the seller's possession. In a group buy that's not the case so that's one big difference.

I don't think you understand what I meant to say.

If I were to pay someone for an item to be shipped to me, and paying for an item to be purchased and then shipped to me or meet up locally, what is the difference in terms of fraud? In either case, whether or not the seller actually has the item in their own possession or not, fraud can still occur just as likely. Even if a member is selling an item in their own possession, they can still scam other members by taking the money and run. I don't see how it would differ if the seller didn't have the actual item on hand.

I personally think that group buys should be except from that rule because of this, but whatever floats your boat, I'll respect it. You're the captain here.

And my intention was not to end the lotto pools. That'll disappoint many RFDers because dozens of members participant on a weekly basis.

[Hellfire]

If I were to pay someone for an item to be shipped to me, and paying for an item to be purchased and then shipped to me or meet up locally, what is the difference in terms of fraud? In either case, whether or not the seller actually has the item in their own possession or not, fraud can still occur just as likely. Even if a member is selling an item in their own possession, they can still scam other members by taking the money and run. I don't see how it would differ if the seller didn't have the actual item on hand.

To take a bit further, there is nothing stopping a member from lying and saying they have an item to sell when they really don't. At least with group buy's the terms are up front and clear - you know the seller doesn't have the item on hand but are trusting them to acquire it and ship it to you just like in any normal transaction.

[poppa]

Our position has been we don't support group buys. However, we will probably have to review that and be a bit more clear due to some of the group buys that are being held.

We haven't updated the rules yet, but we will shortly, and group buys will not be allowed.

The reason is that it'll be almost impossible to trace if there's fraud. People are paying money upfront on the promise that the organizer will do what they've proposed. That's fine when they do, but if they don't then there's nothing that we can really do other than to ban them. It's quite risky so it's not something that we'll be able to support and will no longer be allowed.

The lottery threads worked out fine. Does that mean they will also be disallowed?

[Shaner]

This is unbelievable. Why is RFD so rule happy?

Hellfire has run numerous group buys for Cineplex movie tickets and they have gone over as smooth as can be. UrbanPoet has run many lotto ticket group buys and those have gone over just as smooth.

You're doing a huge disservice to RFD members by shutting those two things down. The cineplex group buy has saved me a considerable amount of money.

RFD should allow group buys outside of BST on an unofficial level. Make a sticky somewhere stating that group buys are not supported by RFD and there is a large risk associated with them. This allows RFD to be off the hook if something happens (not that it likely would with either Hellfire or UrbanPoet).

Lets face it, if someone is going to rip another person off, there is no way for RFD to recover that persons money. You can ban the person, but that's it. The exact same applies with group buys outside of BST. You can't recoup the money, but that's no different than every single BST transaction that occurs every day on this site.

There's absolutely no reason to prohibit all group buys. Yes, it's risky, yes, we all know that. RFD doesn't need to be there at every turn to protect its members from fraud. People know there's a large element of risk when buying/selling online and we accept that risk. For those that don't accept that risk, they can shop in stores and not online.

Don't let a few possible bad applies ruin it for everyone.

[Derek]

There was a group buy thread before and I have the same concern as I did back then and there are members who feel the same way:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132625

As a compromise, we left it open and just simply didn't support group buys. I'm not opposed to leaving it that way and letting it go on, but it's risky and could affect a lot of people if something goes wrong (which is different from the way the BST works).

As I said before, it's all fine and good when everything goes as planned, but if there are any problems we won't be able to provide any support.

I'll sleep on it...

[bubble.tea]

So if I were to purchase 300 movie tickets myself, and sell them on BST the mods would be cool with that? You won't impose the mass quantity rule and shut it down?
Rules are simple and straightforward. You want to be a MASS SELLER, become a sponsored poster.

I'm sure you can afford it...what with all your ventures :D.

[Siefer999]

as long as they are not selling/mass selling for profit, i think it should be allowed.

[bubble.tea]

as long as they are not selling/mass selling for profit, i think it should be allowed.

Well, depends really. If the organizer is actually ending up spending HOURS putting everything together why shouldn't there be some cream for all the hard work?

My personal opinion is the same as that for ANY ONLINE purchase. REPUTATION , REPUTATION, REPUTATION. If you're willing to put your money in someones hands up front, ensure they have a reputation behind them.

If I see a potential group buy going over $5K the organizer BETTER have over 50+ @100% ZERO NEGATIVE people saying "I trust this person".

[Siefer999]

Well, depends really. If the organizer is actually ending up spending HOURS putting everything together why shouldn't there be some cream for all the hard work?


The organizer should get something for their effort but that doesn't mean the same thing as they are doing it for profit. I would hardly call the scraps that UrbanPoet and Hellfire get for organizing their group buys "profit".

[ji2o0k]

If I were to pay someone for an item to be shipped to me, and paying for an item to be purchased and then shipped to me or meet up locally, what is the difference in terms of fraud? In either case, whether or not the seller actually has the item in their own possession or not, fraud can still occur just as likely.
the difference here would be the potential for a one-time mass amount of fraud with the group buy vs. one or two scams from an individual seller and one buyer before the scam artist gets busted/banned.

I can see the point of not allowing group buys. There is definitely a potential for a huge scam affecting a lot of people. With the one-on-one buyer, sure they might be able to scam one or two people before their behaviour is noticed and but then they would be banned by a mod and the seller stickied as a scam artist.

And we have seen it before, a long-trusted seller on RFD with sufficient feedback and a solid rep turns scam artist due to some unknown circumstance/reason. So even if someone was running group buys successfully in the past, something might trigger them to run away with the money and no one would have any recourse (despite having contact info etc).

Not saying the people that have organized group buys in the past will scam but you never know.

[Jon Lai]

the difference here would be the potential for a one-time mass amount of fraud with the group buy vs. one or two scams from an individual seller and one buyer before the scam artist gets busted/banned.

I can see the point of not allowing group buys. There is definitely a potential for a huge scam affecting a lot of people. With the one-on-one buyer, sure they might be able to scam one or two people before their behaviour is noticed and but then they would be banned by a mod and the seller stickied as a scam artist.

And we have seen it before, a long-trusted seller on RFD with sufficient feedback and a solid rep turns scam artist due to some unknown circumstance/reason. So even if someone was running group buys successfully in the past, something might trigger them to run away with the money and no one would have any recourse (despite having contact info etc).

Not saying the people that have organized group buys in the past will scam but you never know.

The Hulk :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyways, I must agree you do have a point about being scammed all at once rather than just one person. Perhaps RFD can limit the size of the group buy then. I just feel that there shouldn't be any regulations against group buys, especially when we haven't had any group buy fraud complaints in the past on RFD, ever.

[Jon Lai]

There was a group buy thread before and I have the same concern as I did back then and there are members who feel the same way:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132625

As a compromise, we left it open and just simply didn't support group buys. I'm not opposed to leaving it that way and letting it go on, but it's risky and could affect a lot of people if something goes wrong (which is different from the way the BST works).

As I said before, it's all fine and good when everything goes as planned, but if there are any problems we won't be able to provide any support.

I'll sleep on it...

Any chance you can revive my deleted thread(s) then?

[Capt.]

Too bad, I think group buys are a great use of forums. It's an easy way to get a bunch of people together and save some money. Isn't that what RFD is about??

There are always risks involved, such as being scammed/fraud when buying things online or used goods from individual sellers rather than retailers, but that is the risk we take and we know that RFD is not responsible for these occurrences. Nor should any blame be placed on RFD, as long as there is sufficient reactionary discipline such as bans afterwards that's all we can ask.

[bubble.tea]

The organizer should get something for their effort but that doesn't mean the same thing as they are doing it for profit. I would hardly call the scraps that UrbanPoet and Hellfire get for organizing their group buys "profit".
What's your threshold for calling 'scraps' 'profit'? While I'm sure it's nothing tremendous, I'm sure there's cream....isn't there?

.... a long-trusted seller on RFD with sufficient feedback and a solid rep turns scam artist due to some unknown circumstance/reason....

I'm not defending this sort of action., however you'd have to be PRETTY STUPID to do that with a SUBSTANTIAL amount of people who have your mailing address, contact information etc etc. It would be pretty much hanging-yourself, as a small claims court against you would be stupid easy to carry to success.

Too bad, I think group buys are a great use of forums. It's an easy way to get a bunch of people together and save some money. Isn't that what RFD is about??....
Uh...YAH!!! :)

[Shaner]

What's your threshold for calling 'scraps' 'profit'? While I'm sure it's nothing tremendous, I'm sure there's cream....isn't there?


I know that for Hellfire's cineplex group buy, he kept next to nothing for himself. I can't remember the exact amount, but it wasn't much at all.

Now take into account the time he spent counting out thousands of movie tickets (I got over 100 for myself the last time and 40 the first time), and mailing them all out to a lot of different people. Hell, writing the addresses on the envelopes alone would take a lot of time.

Whatever he got can't be called anything more than "scraps."

The same applies to UrbanPoet with his cancer lottery he just ran. I was a part of that and unless I'm mistaken, he didn't keep a penny for himself. It either went back to the contributors, or it went to a charity.

Shutting these two guys down is a huge disservice to them and to everyone on RFD who participates in their group guys. There is absolutely no reason that RFD can't make a sticky stating that group guys are not supported by RFD and those who choose to participate anyway are taking a large risk. Perhaps anyone running a group guy should be forced to link to that sticky in their first post.

There's risk in every online transaction that occurs, group guys are no more risky, they just happen to target more people at once. There's no reason to shut them down without shutting down the entire BST forum as well. You can't remove all risk from life.

[NDman]

There is absolutely no reason that RFD can't make a sticky stating that group guys are not supported by RFD and those who choose to participate anyway are taking a large risk. Perhaps anyone running a group guy should be forced to link to that sticky in their first post.


I think this is exactly the reason why they choose to shut it down. Why not being proactive to make sure nothing will happen (yes, it'll sacrifice savings for some), instead of being reactive and cry for band-aid after crap happens?

I have nothing against those guys and they are all reputable without a doubt. But if thing happens, it'll be RFD that bares the bad rep. And a few more cases later, it'll be the same as how quite a few people instinctively associate Craiglist to scams. A risk that is probably not worth taking for RFD now

[UrbanPoet]

I know that for Hellfire's cineplex group buy, he kept next to nothing for himself. I can't remember the exact amount, but it wasn't much at all.

Now take into account the time he spent counting out thousands of movie tickets (I got over 100 for myself the last time and 40 the first time), and mailing them all out to a lot of different people. Hell, writing the addresses on the envelopes alone would take a lot of time.

Whatever he got can't be called anything more than "scraps."

The same applies to UrbanPoet with his cancer lottery he just ran. I was a part of that and unless I'm mistaken, he didn't keep a penny for himself. It either went back to the contributors, or it went to a charity.

Shutting these two guys down is a huge disservice to them and to everyone on RFD who participates in their group guys. There is absolutely no reason that RFD can't make a sticky stating that group guys are not supported by RFD and those who choose to participate anyway are taking a large risk. Perhaps anyone running a group guy should be forced to link to that sticky in their first post.

There's risk in every online transaction that occurs, group guys are no more risky, they just happen to target more people at once. There's no reason to shut them down without shutting down the entire BST forum as well. You can't remove all risk from life.

exactly... all that hard work for nothing...
Not to mention that group buys help bind the RFD community together.
Look @ all the people in my RFD lotto pool. Everyone laughing and talking about their dreams of buy a new house/car etc...

Its all in such good fun that it would be a huge shame if that were to ever get shut down.
SAme with the other group buy threads. They are essentially make a "hot deal" for their participants. I remember buying 10 movie tickets from Hellfire, and everything went fine.

[Hellfire]

Derek must sleep in late :D

[MrDisco]

I can appreciate the rules laid out by site owners, however i don't think it would have been too much to ask to post a notice in my cancer thread as to why you were locking it. now it will appear as though i've setup this lotto thread, perhaps collected money, and then had it locked. doesn't make me look that all that trustworthy :mad:

so much for trying to contribute and make things fun for well-meaning members. maybe it's better to be a lurker.

[pupazzo]

Shut em down. Everyones for stuff like this until they get ripped off and cry to the mods that RFD did nothing to protect them.

[UrbanPoet]

ooh... Now that sucks...
My lotto crew is gonna be pee'd off =(

[Shaner]

Shut em down. Everyones for stuff like this until they get ripped off and cry to the mods that RFD did nothing to protect them.

So let them cry. People are going to cry and whine regardless, that's their nature. You can only protect people so much. RFD is not responsible if one or more of its members gets ripped off during an online transaction.

With that said, I'd say a group buy is a lot less likely to go bad than a regular BST transaction. With group buys, free discussion is allowed since it's not located in the BST section, meaning members are free to threadcrap and speak the truth. Also, nobody is going to enter into a group buy if the organizer is a newbie to RFD or doesn't have much in the way of reputation.

In the BST section, you can't threadcrap (and lets face it, sometimes threadcrapping is merely speaking the truth about someone/something) and it's full of new members with little posts.

For those who don't like the idea of group buys, they dont' need to join in on them, but there's no reason to shut them down for those who do want to join in. Just post a sticky advising that RFD does not support group buys and that there is some risk involved.

There's just no reason to shut them all down. The fact that there's some risk involved isn't a good reason, as there's risk involved in every online transaction.

[GBA]

Buyer beware...isn't that how all business is done with? If the buyer doesn't like what they're buying, by no means are they forced to drop money for it.

The people who are going into group buys accept the risk that they're getting into. It shouldn't be RFD's responsibility to cover potential losses done on bad business...otherwise, RFD shouldn't even have a BST forum!

I say let the group buys stand. They have worked in the past, and even if that's not indicative of their future performance, nobody's forcing you to participate.


Alternatively, is RFD going to shut down all pledge donations and group buys? Not to be mean, but Chococrazy is having a raffle sale of a wii...by RFD's new terms of restrictions, is that going to be disallowed at this moment? What about the people already in the raffle draw, what's going to happen to them?

In my opinion, this is not conducive to the spirit of RFD: Canadian, of course. Bargain hunting, easily. But a COMMUNITY? Banning group buy posts is not working to that end.

[rubberband]

Leave the group buys alone. In 4+ on the site I've not seen one go bad yet.

There's more profit to be made by a scammer, but on the other hand, fraudulent group buys are MUCH harder to orchestrate, considering that a potential scammer will have his sale scrutinized by dozens of users or more, and the risk to them is much higher as a result.

It's pretty easy for an idiot kid to stick a brick in an empty ps3 box or something. Fleecing dozens of users (on a sufficiently expensive item to make it worth the risk) while maintaining the impression of being legitimate is not the same thing.

And really, at the end of the day, folks on here should know the risks associated with online trading.

[Majoram]

+1 for Group Buys.

In fact I wish there were more than just Cineplex tickets and Lottery.

Suggestion to the Mods/RFD staff: Any Seller that wants to do a Group Buy must register a verifiable name, address, phone, email (maybe even a picture) with RFD.

Basically they register as a verifiable Group Seller. Of course this won't exactly stop fraud but it is definitely a deterrent and brings down the risk.

Additionally all Group Sellers must follow some set of rules. Like posting a standard RFD approved disclaimer accepting responsibility etc.

Verification: It is doable by perhaps having long-time members "vouch" for the sellers info. So you can perhaps check a Group Sellers profile and see a "Seller Verified by:" and a list. A minimum required number of verifications to become a Group Seller can possibly apply.

It would be nice if this can be considered.

[poppa]

+1 for Group Buys.

In fact I wish there were more than just Cineplex tickets and Lottery.

Suggestion to the Mods/RFD staff: Any Seller that wants to do a Group Buy must register a verifiable name, address, phone, email (maybe even a picture) with RFD.

Basically they register as a verifiable Group Seller. Of course this won't exactly stop fraud but it is definitely a deterrent and brings down the risk.

Additionally all Group Sellers must follow some set of rules. Like posting a standard RFD approved disclaimer accepting responsibility etc.

Verification: It is doable by perhaps having long-time members "vouch" for the sellers info. So you can perhaps check a Group Sellers profile and see a "Seller Verified by:" and a list. A minimum required number of verifications to become a Group Seller can possibly apply.

It would be nice if this can be considered.

Add an administrative fee and that sounds about right.

[legendofxix]

Add an administrative fee and that sounds about right.
I would gladly pay that fee, as would most others.
In the long run, you save more than you spend.

[MrDisco]

I would gladly pay that fee, as would most others.
In the long run, you save more than you spend.

lol sounds like Costco.

[Shaner]

Add an administrative fee and that sounds about right.

A fee for what? If there's a fee, that means RFD is responsible if something goes awry. If RFD recommends avoiding group buys but allows them on an unofficial basis, then RFD can't be blamed for anything that goes wrong (which has never occurred on this site).

Besides, a lot of the people doing the group buys are not making any money from them, and they are also spending a ton of their time organizing them. Throw a fee in there, and not only do those people lose time, but they also lose money. It wouldn't even be worth it.

[Jon Lai]

Great suggestions and discussion here everyone? Let's see what the mods think..! Err... where are you guys?

[Siefer999]

A fee for what? If there's a fee, that means RFD is responsible if something goes awry. If RFD recommends avoiding group buys but allows them on an unofficial basis, then RFD can't be blamed for anything that goes wrong (which has never occurred on this site).

Besides, a lot of the people doing the group buys are not making any money from them, and they are also spending a ton of their time organizing them. Throw a fee in there, and not only do those people lose time, but they also lose money. It wouldn't even be worth it.

i think he's talking about paying the organizer a small admin fee for setting things up

[UrbanPoet]

I volunteer to be a group buy verifier!!!
Only If i can have my lotto pools back in exchange!

There would need some records of photo ID, and address verification.

[TapemanPL]

i think he's talking about paying the organizer a small admin fee for setting things up

it's called an escrow service, a lot of other forums i've been on have trusted members or mods who do this and is very successful at it. though it was only used for large amounts of money for only up to several people at a time...don't know how well this works with pools and group buys

[emoci]

Whether it is Group Buys/Lotto Threads, as a participant it is clear that the product is not available. Allowing these to continue in an unofficial/outside of BST level would be great. If you wish, create a specific forum/subforum dedicated to this with a clear disclaimer of RFD's responsibilities or lack thereof.

Frankly the risk in a group buy, and RFD's responsibility towards it, is no different than any BST sale. If someone in BST asks for money but doesn't deliver a product, what can RFD do short of banning the fraudulent seller ?

Also keep in mind that the higher number of people involved in group buys, hence higher risk as Derek is mentioning, is balanced by the fact that the people running most group buys (at least most into which any RFD member with some common sense would participate) are run by people that enjoy a certain degree of respect/trustworthiness in the forums, plus everything is run an open manner, with anyone free to comment of any concerns at any point (without fearing that threadcrapping policy will be used to shut out concerns).

All in all, most group buys are more trustworthy than your run of the mill sale (including some in person sales too believe it or not), and it's not like any of us have ever vested/expected any financial assurance from RFD that fraud won't happen. Some risk is always assumed online, if anyone fails to understand that, they should probably stay away from the internet altogether...

Frankly, I think it's a rather bad move for RFD staff to concern themselves with this for now....

@ Derek/Ryan
Just out of curiosity have you had any actual complaints from anyone that has participated in a group buy and either a) has not received what they were promised b) felt they were duped/cheated/scammed or anything of the sort (I am actually hoping for a response to this, it is not meant as a rhetorical question)

Frankly, it's your site so final decision will be yours, but the popularity it enjoys is because of its users, the group buys have been one of those elements attracting people here....

On a side note: If you so decide to ban group buys/lotto threads altogether, I would suggest giving notice, and letting whatever is set up run it's course before going around locking threads....

Hope Derek has had a relaxing night of sleep and will get back to us soon:)

[Hellfire]

I think Derek must be in a coma, since he still hasn't woke up :D

[bubble.tea]

I think Derek must be in a comma, since he still hasn't woke up :D

pssssst, coma ;)

I'd love to see someone stuck in a 'comma' ',' :D

ROFLMAO...
http://storms.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/22/commasutra.gif

[Hellfire]

pssssst, coma ;)

I'd love to see someone stuck in a 'comma' ',' :D

ROFLMAO...
http://storms.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/22/commasutra.gif

LoL Nice T-Shirt, how long did you spend looking for that one? hehe

[bubble.tea]

LoL Nice T-Shirt, how long did you spend looking for that one? hehe

chuckle....try it yourself and see.

keywords 'stuck in a comma'

[Hellfire]

chuckle....try it yourself and see.

keywords 'stuck in a comma'

LoL nice, first page of images.

[Derek]

Slept on it for a couple of nights actually... here's what's going to be added to the rules as a clarification for group buys:

Group Buys: Group buys are allowed but are not supported by RedFlagDeals.com due to the inherent risks associated with it. For the time being, you can run a group buy thread but you are not allowed to collect administrative or other fees beyond the price of the products. Collecting fees would make it a service, which is not allowed. Group buys for lottery tickets also fall under these rules.

You can read a discussion of the issue here: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=483479.

This rule may change in the future and RedFlagDeals.com reserves the right to shut down any group buy that it deems suspicious.

So there you have it, we're going to basically leave it the way it was before. We won't be able to provide support so keep that in mind before getting involved with a group buy.

[Narci]

Imagine if someone started a group buy for Canada Wonderland Tickets? Think about that. There was a scam going on where someone with a fake credit card buying Wonderland tickets online and selling them on RFD. Now the person might be doing this over a period of time with multiple credit cards. Could you imagine a group buy of 100 people all getting duped from the same credit card?

Derek, maybe you can add a disclaimer on each group buy thread's original post saying RFD holds no responsibility or just copy and past the rule above into it?

[Majoram]

Slept on it for a couple of nights actually... here's what's going to be added to the rules as a clarification for group buys:



So there you have it, we're going to basically leave it the way it was before. We won't be able to provide support so keep that in mind before getting involved with a group buy.

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 +1+1+1+1+1+1
My support for that decision!!! :D

Thank you!

[jb831]

wOOt!

I hope this means you'll revive your new Group Buy, Hellfire! I look forward to your Cineplex group buys, and I've actually run out of all the passes I bought last time! ;)

[Hellfire]

wOOt!

I hope this means you'll revive your new Group Buy, Hellfire! I look forward to your Cineplex group buys, and I've actually run out of all the passes I bought last time! ;)

I'll see what I can do - just working out some logistic issues, but the mods were kind enough to provide me with the code from my old thread, so save some typing when I start a new one.

[billdozer]

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378702&

very good points in this thread

[majesus]

So what is the verdict with group buys?

Have we come to a conclusion?

Yeah I can see how this could become a huge problem, however, to me RFD is a community for people to come together and share bargains and that should also include the advantages of group buys.

Yes, the moderators are right as there is potential for fraud, but that shouldn't be up to the moderators to take the blame. There should be group buy topic with a huge disclaimer up front notifying the risk and then it would be up to the member's discretion whether to proceed. Get the mod and RFD off the legal hook and let us members decide.

The reason I am in favor is because there is reputable people on this forum who have the connection and/or the time to organize these great discounts if we commit into a group buy. I want the freedom to be able to participate in these events and the risk should be appended to me.

It would be a huge pity and a major lose to shut these down. Shut it down, will kill a lot of great benefits for members to get together and save. Add a disclaimer, to remind members that the moderators have no liability in group buys and let the members themselves decide if it is worth it or not.

[emoci]

So what is the verdict with group buys?

Have we come to a conclusion?

Yeah I can see how this could become a huge problem, however, to me RFD is a community for people to come together and share bargains and that should also include the advantages of group buys.

Yes, the moderators are right as there is potential for fraud, but that shouldn't be up to the moderators to take the blame. There should be group buy topic with a huge disclaimer up front notifying the risk and then it would be up to the member's discretion whether to proceed. Get the mod and RFD off the legal hook and let us members decide.

The reason I am in favor is because there is reputable people on this forum who have the connection and/or the time to organize these great discounts if we commit into a group buy. I want the freedom to be able to participate in these events and the risk should be appended to me.

It would be a huge pity and a major lose to shut these down. Shut it down, will kill a lot of great benefits for members to get together and save. Add a disclaimer, to remind members that the moderators have no liability in group buys and let the members themselves decide if it is worth it or not.

See http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5581390&postcount=54

[goddess]

So what is the verdict with group buys?

Have we come to a conclusion?

Yeah I can see how this could become a huge problem, however, to me RFD is a community for people to come together and share bargains and that should also include the advantages of group buys.

Yes, the moderators are right as there is potential for fraud, but that shouldn't be up to the moderators to take the blame. There should be group buy topic with a huge disclaimer up front notifying the risk and then it would be up to the member's discretion whether to proceed. Get the mod and RFD off the legal hook and let us members decide.

The reason I am in favor is because there is reputable people on this forum who have the connection and/or the time to organize these great discounts if we commit into a group buy. I want the freedom to be able to participate in these events and the risk should be appended to me.

It would be a huge pity and a major lose to shut these down. Shut it down, will kill a lot of great benefits for members to get together and save. Add a disclaimer, to remind members that the moderators have no liability in group buys and let the members themselves decide if it is worth it or not.

i agree with the above points. well said, maj.

[goddess]

I'll see what I can do - just working out some logistic issues, but the mods were kind enough to provide me with the code from my old thread, so save some typing when I start a new one.

i'm interested in this group buy. hope you're able to start it up again soon.
thank you so much, hellfire.

[majesus]

See http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5581390&postcount=54

Roger that, thanks Emoci.

[DaVibe]

I think what Derek wrote up is fair about group buys. Allowed but not supported, enter at your own risk.
If the people want to organize it and people believe in it, then why not.