Municipal Taxes - Ontario vs BC

[hagbard]

I've been trying to convince my wife we should move to Ontario from BC. One argument I've used is sky high housing prices here in Victoria (the lowest priced house in Victoria is $325k, and that's for a 300sf shack). But it looks like municipal taxes in Ontario wipe out any cost advantage as they appear to be way more than here.

For example, using the info provided on the City of London Ontario website, taxes on a $650k house would be just over $10k a year. Here, it would be $3,200, and you'd get a home owners grant of about $700 off. Do Ontario home owners get any sort of home owners grant to compensate for the ridiculous municipal tax? On the surface, it would appear that a $650k house in BC is a lower cost proposition overall than a $400k house in Ontario. I'm I right?

[patrob]

For example, using the info provided on the City of London Ontario website, taxes on a $650k house would be just over $10k a year. Here, it would be $3,200, and you'd get a home owners grant of about $700 off. Do Ontario home owners get any sort of home owners grant to compensate for the ridiculous municipal tax? On the surface, it would appear that a $650k house in BC is a lower cost proposition overall than a $400k house in Ontario. I'm I right?

$10,000 for a $650,000 house in London:eek: I doubt it...

Our previous house was valued approx. $350,000 (1,900 sq. ft.) & taxes were around $3,800 in Brampton, Ont. Each year or so, it goes up a little, depending on city budget>:(

So I think you should be fine, if you move here...:)

[hagbard]

Okay, maybe I'm misreading it:

http://www.london.ca/Cityhall/Fin_Admin/proptaxfaq.htm

How property tax is calculated
If you want to check the calculation, simply multiply your assessed property value by the applicable tax rate for your class of property, as shown on your 2007 Property Tax Bill. For example, the residential tax rate is set at 1.546759% so the calculation for the typical residential house assessed at $173,000 is as follows:

Property’s Current Value Assessment $173,000
Residential Tax Rate

x
1.546759%
Property Taxes $2,675.89

All the same, $3800 on a $350k house is pretty high. I'm sure it wouldn't be more than $2,000 here.

[gomyone]

...$10,000 for a $650,000 house in London - not sure where you got that from - but I think the amt looks unreasonable - probably closer to $5,000 for taxes.

Either way, you'll definitely do better affordability-wise moving to Ontario from BC. We did that a couple of years ago and traded our tiny condo in Vancouver for a 4 bedroom house in Oakville. Also, you'll probably stand to make more in income in Ont than VIctoria - (bigger job base). So you're actual lifestyle will be far better than there - that's what we found leaving the high prices of BC behind - our money can be spent on other things than just servicing our shelter needs...

[Bullseye]

For example, using the info provided on the City of London Ontario website, taxes on a $650k house would be just over $10k a year. Here, it would be $3,200, and you'd get a home owners grant of about $700 off.

So Victoria has a .5% property tax rate? Rates here seem to range generally between .8% and 1.2%, roughly. I can't imagine how Victoria can manage to run the city on half the revenue that cities here require, so I would be digging a little deeper into this. Perhaps they get far more provincial revenue, meaning higher provincial tax rates. Maybe there are more user fees.

If you want to do a comparison on a purely economic basis, you'll have to look at more than just property prices and municipal tax rates to get an accurate picture.

[hagbard]

...$10,000 for a $650,000 house in London - not sure where you got that from - but I think the amt looks unreasonable - probably closer to $5,000 for taxes.

Either way, you'll definitely do better affordability-wise moving to Ontario from BC. We did that a couple of years ago and traded our tiny condo in Vancouver for a 4 bedroom house in Oakville. Also, you'll probably stand to make more in income in Ont than VIctoria - (bigger job base). So you're actual lifestyle will be far better than there - that's what we found leaving the high prices of BC behind - our money can be spent on other things than just servicing our shelter needs...

Cost of living was a big selling point to convince my wife, but it doesn't seem to be as impressive as I once thought. She's grown up in Victoria, has an established practice here, and family. Where as I grew up in Ontario, have way more family in Ont than she has in Victoria (10x), and few job prospects if I stay here (I currently work for her in an income splitting arrangement). So, I might have to concentrate on those things. She's also not sure about licensing requirements for GPs in Ontario and how may hoops she'll have to jump through.

[tomincanada]

All the same, $3800 on a $350k house is pretty high. I'm sure it wouldn't be more than $2,000 here.

I think I should clarify the situation a bit - firstly you picked London and I believe we're the highest in Ontario.

Secondly, one of the reasons we're so high is our house prices just aren't comparable to Toronto or BC. The average house price in London is low 200's and that gets you the same house as what 600 would get you in many areas of BC (just an estimate, mind you). If property taxes were the same percentage as BC, the city would be getting an average of probably less than a thousand a year per house and that just wouldn't cut it. The fair way to compare taxes would be equivalent houses... not house prices.

Does what I said make sense?

[CheapScotsman]

I have a friend who moved from Coquitlam to Brantford last fall and was visiting him about 6 weeks ago. I asked him how the "cost of living" compared and they said ... its mostly a wash but the biggest single item was property taxes. He is paying around $3800 on a $350k place (and I think he has to pay for garbage pickup) while my place here in New West is valued at about $550k and we paid $1900 net.

[Curioprop]

Most cities in Ontario will jump though the hoops to arrange for a new GP. Contact the municiple office in places you like. I am in the country on the outskirts of Peterborough and on a $300K (4 bdrm on just over 1 acre) house I pay less then $1,900 in taxes. It varies greatly from city to city and county to county.

[tomincanada]

Most cities in Ontario will jump though the hoops to arrange for a new GP. Contact the municiple office in places you like. I am in the country on the outskirts of Peterborough and on a $300K (4 bdrm on just over 1 acre) house I pay less then $1,900 in taxes. It varies greatly from city to city and county to county.

Yes, that's another good point. For example, you move 5 minutes outside of London and your property taxes get cut in half (of course you don't get garbage pickup and have no sewer system.. but that's part and parcel of living outside the city).

[hagbard]

Most cities in Ontario will jump though the hoops to arrange for a new GP. Contact the municiple office in places you like. I am in the country on the outskirts of Peterborough and on a $300K (4 bdrm on just over 1 acre) house I pay less then $1,900 in taxes. It varies greatly from city to city and county to county.

I looked at Kingston and Ottawa as well, they're pretty high there too. My wife won't consider anyplace with a population of less than about 80,000 (she doesn't want to be the only doctor in town or working emergency).

[hagbard]

So Victoria has a .5% property tax rate? Rates here seem to range generally between .8% and 1.2%, roughly. I can't imagine how Victoria can manage to run the city on half the revenue that cities here require, so I would be digging a little deeper into this. Perhaps they get far more provincial revenue, meaning higher provincial tax rates. Maybe there are more user fees.

If you want to do a comparison on a purely economic basis, you'll have to look at more than just property prices and municipal tax rates to get an accurate picture.

From what I understand, provincial tax rates are also lower in BC than Ontario, lower sales tax as well. I think maybe snow clearing place a major role in the difference (we don't get snow).

[mwan]

I have a friend who lives in Arva ( I think thats how you spell it) just 5 to 10 minutes north of London, he is on Septic but does have Garage pick up, his house is in the price rnage you mentioned his property taxes are not 10K... probably 5-6K... Really nice area also...

[tomincanada]

I have a friend who lives in Arva ( I think thats how you spell it) just 5 to 10 minutes north of London, he is on Septic but does have Garage pick up, his house is in the price rnage you mentioned his property taxes are not 10K... probably 5-6K... Really nice area also...

Arva doesn't have to pay property taxes to the city of London so that's why he doesn't pay as much ( even though it's really only 2 minutes north of London ).

This whole thing is an apples to oranges comparison - a 350k house in London is a new 4 bedroom, 2 storey, 3000 sqft place with a big yard. A 350k house in Victoria is a shed. So you have to pay more property tax for it.. it just makes sense.

[hagbard]

Is anyone able to connect with www.mls.ca? This website is getting worse by the day. BTW, could someone tell me what the nicest neigborhoods are in London, and ones to avoid?

[gomyone]

Cost of living was a big selling point to convince my wife, but it doesn't seem to be as impressive as I once thought. She's grown up in Victoria, has an established practice here, and family. Where as I grew up in Ontario, have way more family in Ont than she has in Victoria (10x), and few job prospects if I stay here (I currently work for her in an income splitting arrangement). So, I might have to concentrate on those things. She's also not sure about licensing requirements for GPs in Ontario and how may hoops she'll have to jump through.


My wife is also from Victoria - it took alot of convincing for her to move to Ontario (west coasters are always hesitant to give up on the ocean!). However here's what she's realized about living in Ontario: yes property taxes are higher (esp. in Oakville where we live), but the level of municipal services/amenities are way better than in VIctoria - this is important - especially wrt to kids. Cost of living is also way better in Ontario - not only are house prices more affordable but also because of competition, so are other consumer goods (gas, food, clothing etc). To be honest, there are a number of things that she does miss about Victoria (the pace is slower, its far more scenic), but she maintains that now that she's moved to Ontario she doesn't want to go back to Victoria until we're ready to retire.

Oh BTW - MLS is noticebly slow.

[Curioprop]

I am on septic and well but we get our waste picked up and our streets plowed.

Try http://204.138.156.112/

Its called Homes across canada and its basically mls for comunities with indepandent real estate boards (i think).

[hagbard]

I am on septic and well but we get our waste picked up and our streets plowed.

Try http://204.138.156.112/

Its called Homes across canada and its basically mls for comunities with indepandent real estate boards (i think).

Thanks, much better than the MLS site!

[hagbard]

My wife is also from Victoria - it took alot of convincing for her to move to Ontario (west coasters are always hesitant to give up on the ocean!). However here's what she's realized about living in Ontario: yes property taxes are higher (esp. in Oakville where we live), but the level of municipal services/amenities are way better than in VIctoria - this is important - especially wrt to kids. Cost of living is also way better in Ontario - not only are house prices more affordable but also because of competition, so are other consumer goods (gas, food, clothing etc). To be honest, there are a number of things that she does miss about Victoria (the pace is slower, its far more scenic), but she maintains that now that she's moved to Ontario she doesn't want to go back to Victoria until we're ready to retire.

Oh BTW - MLS is noticebly slow.

How are your heating costs compared with when you were in BC?

[gomyone]

How are your heating costs compared with when you were in BC?

...its hard to make a reasonable comparison - we were reduced to living in a fairly small condo in Vancouver whereas we live in a much larger home now (difference of over 1,000 sq ft). So obviously my heating costs would be higher in Ontario. However not sure what the "unit" difference in costs is.

Take a look at this report by RBC Economics:

http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf

They estimate approximate affordability in Canadian cities based on mortgage payments, utility costs and property taxes as well as average household income. Using these measures, Ontario comes out as far more affordable than BC. In fact, I have heard that BC is one of the least affordable places to live in North America. After my experience there, I would agree.

[hagbard]

...its hard to make a reasonable comparison - we were reduced to living in a fairly small condo in Vancouver whereas we live in a much larger home now (difference of over 1,000 sq ft). So obviously my heating costs would be higher in Ontario. However not sure what the "unit" difference in costs is.

Take a look at this report by RBC Economics:

http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf

They estimate approximate affordability in Canadian cities based on mortgage payments, utility costs and property taxes as well as average household income. Using these measures, Ontario comes out as far more affordable than BC. In fact, I have heard that BC is one of the least affordable places to live in North America. After my experience there, I would agree.

Interesting stuff.

[Rosico]

Moneysense magazine did a story on quality of life/cost of living. I think Ottawa ranked at the top.

It does come down to your values though - do you want a larger house or only need a smaller condo? Do you hate snow? Do you like the Argos?

[hagbard]

Moneysense magazine did a story on quality of life/cost of living. I think Ottawa ranked at the top.

It does come down to your values though - do you want a larger house or only need a smaller condo? Do you hate snow? Do you like the Argos?

We just got back from Ontario, spent a day in Toronto (didn't like it much, was much better in the 70s), and three day in Ottawa. Ottawa was great, but seemed like property prices were not much better than here. We have two kids, so we need a house. And I hate snow (biggest drawback to moving, from my point of view).

[gman]

Different city in Ontario has different tax rate. For example, I live in Markham. The assessment of my house is $361K. My 2007 property tax is $3683. My colleague lives in Oshawa. The value of his house is lower than mine but his property tax is almost $5K. Our mill rate is around 1.01%. His is around 1.7%

[noname]

holy, I never realized ONT had such high property taxes. My house in Burnaby is assessed at $550K, but market is closer to $650K and I pay $1900 for property taxes after the home owner's grant

[hagbard]

holy, I never realized ONT had such high property taxes. My house in Burnaby is assessed at $550K, but market is closer to $650K and I pay $1900 for property taxes after the home owner's grant

Kind of balances things out. That extra $3k not going to property taxes but into a mortgage can make a big difference.

[CSK'sMom]

Hagbard, has your wife considered Niagara at all? St Catharines is building a new regional hospital that will be affiliated with Mac Medical School.

[BuildingHomes]

$650K for a house in London would be a mansion.. Do you really need something that big? Or are you just basing it on a size/cost comparison to what you have now?

[hagbard]

$650K for a house in London would be a mansion.. Do you really need something that big? Or are you just basing it on a size/cost comparison to what you have now?

Just to compare. The houses that I'm finding are around $325k, though I have seen a really nice one for $550k, but I don't want to be paying $8k in taxes every year for the privilege.

[tomincanada]

Is anyone able to connect with www.mls.ca? This website is getting worse by the day. BTW, could someone tell me what the nicest neigborhoods are in London, and ones to avoid?

Generally you want to stick to West/North/Southwest London - but what specific subdivisions you want depends on your price range. In the 300's have a look in Oakridge/Hazeldon, Westmount, Masonville/Stoneybrook and Byron/Lambeth.

There are other nice areas of course but those are a good start.

Also I think London had an incentive program to attract GP's last year or so.. not sure if it's still in play or how good it was, though.

[Bullseye]

Hagbard, has your wife considered Niagara at all? St Catharines is building a new regional hospital that will be affiliated with Mac Medical School.

After the snow comment, I was going to make the same recommendation. St.Catherines is a good sized city, and gets much milder winters than the north side of Lake Ontario.

In fact, I've considered moving to the Port Dalhousie area of that city myself.

[Evil Baby]

Just to add to CSK and Bullseye, you should take a look at the Niagara Region. Any of the cities in the area would work. At most you'd be a 30 minute drive. Haven't been in a traffic jam yet and depending on what city you're going for you could have a very large house for your price range, however I think taxes are just as bad

Property tax calculator (http://www.regional.niagara.on.ca/government/budget-taxes/calculator.aspx)

[Bullseye]

Just to add to CSK and Bullseye, you should take a look at the Niagara Region. Any of the cities in the area would work. At most you'd be a 30 minute drive. Haven't been in a traffic jam yet and depending on what city you're going for you could have a very large house for your price range, however I think taxes are just as bad

Property tax calculator (http://www.regional.niagara.on.ca/government/budget-taxes/calculator.aspx)

Wow, looks like taxes are even higher! I looked at St.Catherines, and used my current assessed value of $278k (thank you, assessment freeze!). Burlington = $3000, St.Catherines = $4,300!

[CSK'sMom]

It depends on the city here in Niagara Evil. But I will say I found a 4 bedroom house ( http://www.mls-niagara.com) on the Niagara Parkway with an unobstructed view of the river. It has docking rights and sit's on 1.7a that is listed for just over $400k and the taxes are just over $4k. That is prime real estate.

Bullseye, I actually spent my teen years living in Port Dalhousie, right at Lock and Main. It's an amazing little place. Many a fond memory of spending Canada Day at Lakeside Park watching the fireworks then sitting on top of the 10 foot tall retaining wall watching everyone try to get out of Port afterwards. :cool:

[hagbard]

Generally you want to stick to West/North/Southwest London - but what specific subdivisions you want depends on your price range. In the 300's have a look in Oakridge/Hazeldon, Westmount, Masonville/Stoneybrook and Byron/Lambeth.

There are other nice areas of course but those are a good start.

Also I think London had an incentive program to attract GP's last year or so.. not sure if it's still in play or how good it was, though.

Seem a bunch of places in Old South in MLS that look good, how's that neigbourhood?

BTW, using that tax calculator is making a move to Ontario difficult. You'd have to buy a $800k house in Victoria to end up paying anywhere near $8k in taxes. Buying a $650k house here is $3200 in taxes, in Port Colborne its $11, 825!! I'd need to buy a $175,000 house to incur $3,200 in taxes in PC. How do they justify such an outrageous tax rate?

[Bullseye]

BTW, using that tax calculator is making a move to Ontario difficult. You'd have to buy a $800k house in Victoria to end up paying anywhere near $8k in taxes. Buying a $650k house here is $3200 in taxes, in Port Colborne its $11, 825!! I'd need to buy a $175,000 house to incur $3,200 in taxes in PC. How do they justify such an outrageous tax rate?

Port Colbourne is a dump, you could probably get a lot for $175k. I can't imagine why the tax rate is so high, though, they'd have to pay ME to live there. :lol:

[hagbard]

Port Colbourne is a dump, you could probably get a lot for $175k. I can't imagine why the tax rate is so high, though, they'd have to pay ME to live there. :lol:

Would be nice to have a tax calculator for London, or Ottawa (our other choice).

[tomincanada]

Seem a bunch of places in Old South in MLS that look good, how's that neigbourhood?

BTW, using that tax calculator is making a move to Ontario difficult. You'd have to buy a $800k house in Victoria to end up paying anywhere near $8k in taxes. Buying a $650k house here is $3200 in taxes, in Port Colborne its $11, 825!! I'd need to buy a $175,000 house to incur $3,200 in taxes in PC. How do they justify such an outrageous tax rate?

Old South (and Old North) are both quite nice neighbourhoods - I didn't mention them as I felt you were looking for a newer neighbourhood and those two are mostly houses upwards of a 100 years old. The pluses are you can find beautiful, centrally located old houses and some places such as Wortley Village in old south are sort of their own community with all the amenities.

The downside (to some) is many of them don't have garages, the streets are typically narrow and being centrally located some areas of them border some downtown areas that aren't as nice.

[tomincanada]

Port Colbourne is a dump, you could probably get a lot for $175k. I can't imagine why the tax rate is so high, though, they'd have to pay ME to live there. :lol:

The lower the average house price is, the higher the tax rate has to be in order to pull in the same dollar value to the city.

[supergenius]

I went to school in London, ON and I will say if you don't like snow then London may not be the right place for you. London usually gets a few heavy dumps of lake-effect snow every winter. Its not called the "snow belt" for nothing.

Other than that, London is/was? a very nice city to live in, although I have heard it has deteriorated over the past 10 years.

[tomincanada]

I went to school in London, ON and I will say if you don't like snow then London may not be the right place for you. London usually gets a few heavy dumps of lake-effect snow every winter. Its not called the "snow belt" for nothing.

Other than that, London is/was? a very nice city to live in, although I have heard it has deteriorated over the past 10 years.

Nah.. nothing has really changed in the last 10 years. Some areas of the east end might have deteriorated a bit over the last 20 years or so but for the most part London is basically the same as it ever was.

[hagbard]

Old South (and Old North) are both quite nice neighbourhoods - I didn't mention them as I felt you were looking for a newer neighbourhood and those two are mostly houses upwards of a 100 years old. The pluses are you can find beautiful, centrally located old houses and some places such as Wortley Village in old south are sort of their own community with all the amenities.

The downside (to some) is many of them don't have garages, the streets are typically narrow and being centrally located some areas of them border some downtown areas that aren't as nice.

Saw a couple on Base Line Rd E that looked interesting.

[gman]

Seem a bunch of places in Old South in MLS that look good, how's that neigbourhood?

BTW, using that tax calculator is making a move to Ontario difficult. You'd have to buy a $800k house in Victoria to end up paying anywhere near $8k in taxes. Buying a $650k house here is $3200 in taxes, in Port Colborne its $11, 825!! I'd need to buy a $175,000 house to incur $3,200 in taxes in PC. How do they justify such an outrageous tax rate?

If 2 towns are equal in size, equal in service, equal in the length of roads, equal in population, equal number of property, etc, their running cost should be similar (in theory). Says, they both need $10 million in budget.

Says, the property value of one town (town A) is double of the property value of other town (town B). If the property tax of town A is 1% to get $10 million, property tax of town B will be 2% to get that $10 million.

[tomincanada]

Saw a couple on Base Line Rd E that looked interesting.

Baseline road is a fairly busy street, FYI, if that's a concern. It's not a major city street or anything but it certainly will have it's share of traffic.

[tomincanada]

Says, the property value of one town (town A) is double of the property value of other town (town B). If the property tax of town A is 1% to get $10 million, property tax of town B will be 2% to get that $10 million.

That's a pretty simple concept that seems to be lost on a lot of people here.

[Cas77]

Would be nice to have a tax calculator for London, or Ottawa (our other choice).

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/proptaxes/residents/EstimatorDollars_en.html

[hagbard]

Okay, Ottawa appears to have a bit lower property taxes, but the price of houses are much higher than London or Kingston for similar properties.

[gman]

Okay, Ottawa appears to have a bit lower property taxes, but the price of houses are much higher than London or Kingston for similar properties.

Should you look for the size of the house first and then find out how much property tax of that house is in various cities?

[Jobu]

Moving FROM BC to Ontario to save a few bucks? Are you out of your mind?

There's a reason why people migrate to BC.

[tomincanada]

Moving FROM BC to Ontario to save a few bucks? Are you out of your mind?

There's a reason why people migrate to BC.

I was wondering how long before some immature kid came along and tried to make this into a BC vs Ontario issue.

[gman]

Moving FROM BC to Ontario to save a few bucks? Are you out of your mind?

There's a reason why people migrate to BC.

There are many reasons why people migrate to Ontario.

[hagbard]

One reason for moving is housing affordability, the other is that my family and friends are all in Ontario. My wife has her family in BC, but I have way more relatives in Ontario then she does in BC. And after living nearly twenty years in Victoria, I can tell you, its not a very open and friendly place. Time for a move.

[tomincanada]

One reason for moving is housing affordability, the other is that my family and friends are all in Ontario. My wife has her family in BC, but I have way more relatives in Ontario then she does in BC. And after living nearly twenty years in Victoria, I can tell you, its not a very open and friendly place. Time for a move.

Wortley Village ( in Old South) sounds it might be a good place for you - very friendly community. Your wife could even open up a place for practice in the 190 wortley center.

[William W]

I can't imagine how Victoria can manage to run the city on half the revenue that cities here require, so I would be digging a little deeper into this. Perhaps they get far more provincial revenue, meaning higher provincial tax rates. Maybe there are more user fees.

I think a fair chunk is attributed to the snow removal cost, as well as user fees for services like garbage removal, etc.

[gomyone]

Moving FROM BC to Ontario to save a few bucks? Are you out of your mind?

There's a reason why people migrate to BC.

..the main reason why people migrate to BC has been because of lifestyle, or if you are tradesperson - then maybe a good paying job. However, nobody moves to BC with the intention of saving money - plain and simple - the cost of living is much higher there than Ontario (unless of course you are living in Prince George or Kitimat).

[hagbard]

I think a fair chunk is attributed to the snow removal cost, as well as user fees for services like garbage removal, etc.

There are no user fees for garbage removal. We do pay for water usage, do you in Ontario? We also have a $500 (or is it more?) tax rebate if its your primary house. So that $3200 tax bill I spoke of is actually more like $2700 on a $650,000 house. I'll have to break this all down to make an accurate comparison between the cost of living in BC and that of Ontario.

[Frankie3s]

I've been trying to convince my wife we should move to Ontario from BC. One argument I've used is sky high housing prices here in Victoria (the lowest priced house in Victoria is $325k, and that's for a 300sf shack). But it looks like municipal taxes in Ontario wipe out any cost advantage as they appear to be way more than here.

For example, using the info provided on the City of London Ontario website, taxes on a $650k house would be just over $10k a year. Here, it would be $3,200, and you'd get a home owners grant of about $700 off. Do Ontario home owners get any sort of home owners grant to compensate for the ridiculous municipal tax? On the surface, it would appear that a $650k house in BC is a lower cost proposition overall than a $400k house in Ontario. I'm I right?

I'd stay in BC myself although our winters here in Ontario are getting milder. We do pay some of the most expensive property tax rates around besides subsidizing the "half not" provinces although we are pretty close to being one ourselves. We are sinking pretty fast.

[hagbard]

I'd stay in BC myself although our winters here in Ontario are getting milder. We do pay some of the most expensive property tax rates around besides subsidizing the "half not" provinces although we are pretty close to being one ourselves. We are sinking pretty fast.

There are other than monetary reason for leaving BC, one being that the people in BC are far friendlier. However, I still plan to break down the numbers to see if the cost of living isn't less in Ontario (through lower house prices), and it will play a factor. Plus, there seems to be a lot of places in Ontario that would offer my wife a nice benefits package if we where to move there.