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View Full Version : bought house - previous owner did not respect clause - shold we sue?


jukster
Jul 24th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Hi,

We bought an older house in Toronto (as is); however the previous owner had a lot of junk inside the house and around the property and so when we signed the papers, our real estate agent put in a clause so that the owner had to remove at his expense all items in and around the property on or before the closing date as well as maintain the lawn and remove any loose branches. Also the agent asked us to make sure we communicate with our lawyer to ensure there is sufficient holdback so that in case the owner does not respect the condition we can use part or all of the holdback money to pay for services to have the items which belonged to him removed from the property.

Before the sale I phoned our lawyer many times to understand better how the holdback process works and I was told that if on the day of the move the junk is still there, I was to phone him and he would communicate this with the seller's lawyer.
Few days before we were supposed to move I asked to see the property again since I wanted to see if the seller was cleaning it up or not.....I guess he had read my mind and so two days before closing he started cleaning up.

However, on the day of closing we found still lots of junk in the house and around the property, also he had removed some rose bushes from the front and left us some dead squirrels and birds in the backyard (he had removed some old dog kennels and I assume those dead animals were there and his dogs scattered them across the backyard).

Anyway, I called our lawyer, left a message explaining what we had found, took pictures to ensure we have proof of this and waited for the lawyer to give me the go-ahead (as in assure me there is a holdback) to have someone come in and remove all this junk. Next day he left me a voice mail (which I still have saved on my phone) and told me to go ahead and pay for this service as I will be reimbursed with money held by the seller's lawyer. And so we ended up paying $508 from our pockets and sent the receipt to our lawyer. On the Monday after this, our lawyer calls saying there was no holdback and saying that the previous owner would contact us to reimburse us. (rrrrrrrright!!!!) of course that never happened.

Now our lawyer says we have two options; one to sue the seller in small claims court and the other for him to make a complaint with law society of the other lawyer not holding back any amount. However, the other lawyer apparently had never specifically agreed to hold back any money

SO, I don't want to waste my time or energy in small claims court, but in the same time I think someone should pay for all this, whether it's the seller's lawyer or ours or the seller.....the condition on the purchase agreement is written very clearly black on white that all these items were supposed to have been removed. Also, I should mention that the seller never paid in full his portion of the property taxes and now I have to wait for the title insurance to pay his portion (about $400) meanwhile incurring interest for that amount.
And to make matters worse, our lawyer does not really return my messages either voice mail or email. I'm tempted to contact the seller and tell him that I'm willing to take him to court just to get him to pay me back.

Any advice?


Thanks.

CheapScotsman
Jul 24th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Do you have the holdback clause with both dates and penalties in the sales contract ... along with an independant to confirm the cleanup?

Your sales agreement is a legal agreement. Disputes in legal agreements are settled in court ... small claims. So if you want to get the meat of the matter, its going to be small court

Your lawyer suggested filing a complaint ... I would suggest that you do that but file it against YOUR lawyer. He didn't do what you asked him to do.

Krox
Jul 24th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Yup it sounds like your lawyer didn't do his job. The hold back is one thing, the property taxes are another. Your lawyer should have looked into the property taxes to see if he was up to date.

I would have thought it was your lawyer you held back the money. He should not have turned over the full amount to the seller's lawyer.

jukster
Jul 24th, 2007, 03:24 PM
Yes, I'm not sure which lawyer should have done the holdback ie whether it;s the purchaser's or the seller's lawyer?
He said he purchased title insurance instead of ordering a tax certificate from the city and this title insurance will take care of paying off the portion owed by the seller. When, I have no idea, because he's not responding to my messages.

As to your question of whether we have a holdback clause, not in terms of a holdback, only a clause stipulating that the seller is to remove the items. The holdback issue was communicated verbally to the laywer at the suggestion of the real estate agent who saw that the junk wasn't being removed 2 days before closing.
The independent to confirm the clean-up is the firm who also was recommended by our lawyer.
I also have the saved voice mail from our lawyer telling us to go ahead and pay for the removal; that there was a holdback (this is from the day after the sale) and various emails after the fact in which I requested to be reimbursed.

Should I contact the seller's lawyer or the seller in an attempt to get my money back?

JWL
Jul 24th, 2007, 04:50 PM
The buyer's lawyer is there to protect the buyer's interest so contacting him won't help.

You need to insist your lawyer follow up on this vigorously with the seller and AT NO CHARGE TO YOU since he did not follow your wishes.

Don't incur any more legal costs as they will quickly outweigh the amount in question.

Cheap Cat
Jul 24th, 2007, 10:23 PM
Yes, I'm not sure which lawyer should have done the holdback ie whether it;s the purchaser's or the seller's lawyer?
He said he purchased title insurance instead of ordering a tax certificate from the city and this title insurance will take care of paying off the portion owed by the seller. When, I have no idea, because he's not responding to my messages.



Your lawyer should have checked with the city on the taxes. He shouldn't be relying on title insurance for that. That is one of the things you pay him for. On closing, if the taxes are outstanding, he is supposed to deduct that from the money paid to the seller and pay the city. My idiot lawyer did the same thing. He told me the whole years taxes had been paid so I had to reimburse the seller. After I took possession, I got a bill from the city plus late fees. It turns out the seller hadn't paid any taxes that year and the last 3 instalments hadn't even been billed. I left a nasty message for my lawyer and he eventually paid the taxes and penalties. I also made a complaint to my agent who had recommended this lawyer and her broker spoke to one of the partners and they stopped using that firm. There were other issues with this lawyer.

mart242
Jul 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
You give the money to your lawyer and I think that he's the one who keeps some (holdback) and will only give it to the purchaser's lawyer once all conditions are met.

I agree with the posters above, bring your lawyer to small claims court. I'm pretty sure that the judge will side with the little guy (ie: you!). Make sure that everything is documented and in writing.

brute33
Jul 24th, 2007, 11:06 PM
i would file a complaint to the bar association your lawyer belongs to. he really dropped the ball on this one. i would sue him!

Bytown
Jul 25th, 2007, 07:18 AM
Taking the seller to court is going to be a hard task.However you do have good grounds to take action ve your lawyer.

Dustbunny
Jul 25th, 2007, 07:37 AM
You might want to make a call to the bar association and see what they recommend. Someone there can tell you absolutely for sure what your lawyer's responsibilities were (it sounds like he did drop the ball a few times). With one purchase/sale I had the lawyer bungled one thing after another and that is what I did. The person I spoke with (like an ombudsman I suppose) recommended some things to try to get everything sorted and once I did that, took a formal complaint from me which stays on the their records and which appears on their list when you look for lawyers on their site. So that can sure cramp the lawyers style.

I learned with my first house when the lawyer's paperwork arrived covered in white out (not allowed), columns were added up incorrectly, documents were missing, etc. You do have to keep your eye on them unless you have used them enough to know they are okay.

BTW if that lawyer isn't taking your calls, use their own tactic and send a registered letter to him with your requests and expectations.

jukster
Jul 26th, 2007, 12:45 PM
I will take action against my lawyer....I will give him until Monday to contact me back, if not, I will send a registered letter telling him what he owes me and that I will take him to small claims court....see how he'll feel about that.
Thanks everyone for your answers.

JWL
Jul 26th, 2007, 02:42 PM
i would file a complaint to the bar association your lawyer belongs to. he really dropped the ball on this one. i would sue him!

You have to pay another lawyer to sue someone. How much would you spend on suing him for a $500 error? That will get you about 1-1.5 hours of another lawyer's time. You'd have to spend thousands to sue him.

Nav
Jul 26th, 2007, 05:27 PM
You have to pay another lawyer to sue someone. How much would you spend on suing him for a $500 error? That will get you about 1-1.5 hours of another lawyer's time. You'd have to spend thousands to sue him.

the amount in question is within the threshold for small claims court, and a lawyer is not required to represent oneself in small claims court.