High Efficiency (HE) Detergent V.S Regular Detergent for front Loading washers

[Neovingian]

Howdy y'all,

Just have a question regarding detergent, my cousin and I are having a freindly debate over liquid laundry V.S. High efficiency (HE) detergent specially formulated for front loading washing machines.

His theory is that High Efficiency detergents are a scam, waste of money & a evil conspiracy formulated by apllicance and laundery detergent manufacurers to suck more money out of consumers. He also beleives that using any liquid detergent is fine as long as you don't over fill the detergent resovoir. Also another point he brings up up is that HE detergents are not as common and only made by certain companies and not all detergent manufacturers.

My opinion is that you should use the detergent that is recomended for your washer. I look at this sorta like gasoline in a car.

Any thoughts or opinions?

[B0000rt]

Soap designed for HE washers are low sudsing, and are generally the ones put out at those Proctor and Gamble warehouse sales, so they're generally cheap! :D

[Cas77]

Front-loaders use less water than top-loaders, which is where they get the saving of both water and energy resources. However, less water also means regular laundry detergents do not dissolve as easily and can leave soap residue on your clothes.

Also, the tumbling action of front-load machine is gentler on fabrics but adds more air to the water as your clothes are plunged into and lifted out of the water. This creates more suds than a conventional top-loading washer would. Excess suds can overflow and actually damage a front-loading machine.

If I put regular soap in my machine the wash will take 3-4 hours and the message on the screen will show 'SUDS' meaning there is still soap residue on the clothes and they're not clean. This defeats the whole purpose of have an energy efficient washing machine....

Also, there is very little price different between the 2 types of detergent if any...there was a few years back but not anymore.

[Neovingian]

If I put regular soap in my machine the wash will take 3-4 hours and the message on the screen will show 'SUDS' meaning there is still soap residue on the clothes and they're not clean. This defeats the whole purpose of have an energy efficient washing machine....

Also, there is very little price different between the 2 types of detergent if any...there was a few years back but not anymore.


3/4 hours is along time for a wash, and thats unacceptable for 1 load, I can get 3-4 loads in 2 hrs with with a top loader.

I've recently picked up some HE detergent a few days about and it was roughly twice as much as regular leading brand liquid detergent. It was $8.99 for HE v.s $4.79 for a similar sized non HE detergent.

I guess the other question to ask is, are there different quality grades of HE liquid detergent? I've only ever seen Tide & Sunlight?

[Cas77]

3/4 hours is along time for a wash, and thats unacceptable for 1 load, I can get 3-4 loads in 2 hrs with with a top loader.

I used it as an example to see what reg detergent does in HE machines because my washer has a mechnism to measure if the clothes are clean or not. If it didn't have that the soap residue would stay on the clothes. So it washes and rewashes until the soap is all gone.



I've recently picked up some HE detergent a few days about and it was roughly twice as much as regular leading brand liquid detergent. It was $8.99 for HE v.s $4.79 for a similar sized non HE detergent.

I guess the other question to ask is, are there different quality grades of HE liquid detergent? I've only ever seen Tide & Sunlight?

When it goes on sale it always includes the HE.

I know PC makes HE detergent there's also GAIN HE. I was never a big fan of perfume smelling clothes so I usually just buy the tide free or sunlight equivalent. Also, some detergents mau say HE compatible...such as the Kirkland (Costco) Free and Clear (or soemthing similiar)....but trust me based on their recommended quantities it is NOT HE friendly! The SUDS warnign showed up almost immediately. Look for a strictly HE product rather than an HE 'compatible' one.

[Neovingian]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, i'm new to this front loader machine stuff.
Just wanted to make sure I was buying the right stuff. So looks like its time for me to stock up on HE detergent. I already have 4 bottles which should be enough for approx 128 loads.

Its funny I know a few people who use regular liquid detergent in their front loaders and don't seem to have complaints.

[Kevinck]

A lot of people will say you can use regular detergent in a front loader if you cut the amount down by half to avoid the over sudzing problem. This will probably work and wont' damage your machine, but think about what you're doing. You're using half as much detergent as you usually would. If you think that's fine, then why weren't you doing that in the top loader? And why stop at half. Why not 1/4? or 1/8? Things aren't going to clean as well.

Water quality also makes a difference. IF you have really hard water, nothing is going to make suds much at all.

Also when comparing prices you have to take into account the quality. Don't compare Tide HE to some noname brand regular detergent. Compare HE to Non-HE of the same brand and usually there really isn't much of a price difference. I use the presidents choice HE stuff because i find it cleans well and doesn't cost as much as Tide.

[CheapScotsman]

Our Front load is 6.5 years old (Kenmore) and the manual says to use either low sudsing detergent or regular.

We purchase Sunlight regular in a 8.8kg box that indicates it is good for 90 loads. If I used the measuring cup that comes with it, we would use about 300ml. Instead, we use about 50ml so we probably get a couple of hundred loads from one box of detergent.

The clothes come out fine and smell great. We pre-treat bad stains (tomato sauce, blood, etc) and sometimes use bleach ... my work clothes (think doing concrete or roofing for 2/3 days before cleaning) come out fine.

However, its been a while since I have checked out the price of HE vsrsus regular. Food shop coming up on Wed/Thu so I'll check it out at Superstore then.

[Daffyd]

Get thee to Costco and pick up their brand of HE Detergent.

A huge containter will last months and months and months, doesn't really cost much money and gets rated highly by Consumer Reports all the time.

[fireguy9]

been using the extra brand for 4yrs in our front loader without any issues. We use less then called for and its great

[Kanus]

A lot of people will say you can use regular detergent in a front loader if you cut the amount down by half to avoid the over sudzing problem. This will probably work and wont' damage your machine, but think about what you're doing. You're using half as much detergent as you usually would. If you think that's fine, then why weren't you doing that in the top loader? And why stop at half. Why not 1/4? or 1/8? Things aren't going to clean as well.


If a front loader uses less than half the volume of water, it makes sense you would use half the amount of regular detergent.

I use regular detergent in my front loader and use the amount recommended for a regular load (not a heavy load) and I find it works well. If I do a really small load, I find I do have to cut back on the amount of detergent or I will have a sudsing problem.

[hoob]

I'm using the new Tide Free HE Ultra.... The bottles are small (even compared to regular HE) but the recommended amount of liquid is only about 1/6 of a cup... Works fine, glad to see the Free stuff in HE finally.

[JWL]

I know PC makes HE detergent there's also GAIN HE.

Where did you find Gain HE? It was highly rated by Consumer Reports but I haven't seen it in any stores in Canada.

[Diamondog]

Howdy y'all,

Just have a question regarding detergent, my cousin and I are having a freindly debate over liquid laundry V.S. High efficiency (HE) detergent specially formulated for front loading washing machines.

His theory is that High Efficiency detergents are a scam, waste of money & a evil conspiracy formulated by apllicance and laundery detergent manufacurers to suck more money out of consumers. He also beleives that using any liquid detergent is fine as long as you don't over fill the detergent resovoir. Also another point he brings up up is that HE detergents are not as common and only made by certain companies and not all detergent manufacturers.

My opinion is that you should use the detergent that is recomended for your washer. I look at this sorta like gasoline in a car.
Any thoughts or opinions?

HE detergents are widely available and by numerous companies and cost the same as regular detergent...where's the scam?

[bionicbadger]

Get thee to Costco and pick up their brand of HE Detergent.

A huge containter will last months and months and months, doesn't really cost much money and gets rated highly by Consumer Reports all the time.

The costco stuff comes in a "bottle" that is exactly the same as the tide HE stuff, so I'm assuming its just relabled.

And you can use regular stuff as pointed out, just cut the amount down to 1/2 or 1/3 of regular. You pretty much have to do this if you wash delicates since I don't think they don't sell Ivory or Zero HE in Canada (at least they didn't last time I looked around 6 or 8 months ago).

[Cas77]

Where did you find Gain HE? It was highly rated by Consumer Reports but I haven't seen it in any stores in Canada.

Saw it at Your Independant Grocer...bottle is alomost identical to the reg Gain bottle save for a little HE logo under the Gain logo. could easily be overlooked...

[urban1]

You should understand that soaps and cleaning power arent related. Over the years people have come to believe that lots of suds must mean cleaning power (whether its hand soap, dish soap, laundry soap, etc.) The chemicals with detergent properties are different from the chemicals which create the suds.

Therefore if you are using normal laundry detergent in a HE machine and you cut in half the amount of normal laundry detergent, you are cutting in half both the detergent chemicals and the chemicals which create the suds. You will therefore get less suds but you will also get less detergent in your wash.

[Neovingian]

Our Front load is 6.5 years old (Kenmore) and the manual says to use either low sudsing detergent or regular.

We purchase Sunlight regular in a 8.8kg box that indicates it is good for 90 loads. If I used the measuring cup that comes with it, we would use about 300ml. Instead, we use about 50ml so we probably get a couple of hundred loads from one box of detergent.

The clothes come out fine and smell great. We pre-treat bad stains (tomato sauce, blood, etc) and sometimes use bleach ... my work clothes (think doing concrete or roofing for 2/3 days before cleaning) come out fine.

However, its been a while since I have checked out the price of HE vsrsus regular. Food shop coming up on Wed/Thu so I'll check it out at Superstore then.....Last time I checked the costs for leading brand HE detergent is about $8-$10 a bottle, and liquid non-HE detergent can be had for $4 or less sometimes. That sounds like 2X the price to me.
Correct me if im wrong about your post, are you saying your using the big boxed powdered detergent in your front loader machine? Now I hear thats a big No-No! Also a sudsing nightmare waiting to happen.

been using the extra brand for 4yrs in our front loader without any issues. We use less then called for and its great
I'm just trying to look into this more before considering the regular stuff.
I'm using the new Tide Free HE Ultra.... The bottles are small (even compared to regular HE) but the recommended amount of liquid is only about 1/6 of a cup... Works fine, glad to see the Free stuff in HE finally...BY free stuff I hope you mean, perfume free? So they even have a Tide HE Ultra and its smaller than the HE bottles? Now thats gonna start to become confusing.

HE detergents are widely available and by numerous companies and cost the same as regular detergent...where's the scam?...I was never the one who said it is a scam, it was my buddy, but the more he talked the more convincing he sounded. I've only ever seen Tide & Sunligh HE detergent in about 4 drug stores & grocey stores. What are these widely available ones you are referring to? Last time I checked $9 was not the same was $5?

You should understand that soaps and cleaning power arent related. Over the years people have come to believe that lots of suds must mean cleaning power (whether its hand soap, dish soap, laundry soap, etc.) The chemicals with detergent properties are different from the chemicals which create the suds.

Therefore if you are using normal laundry detergent in a HE machine and you cut in half the amount of normal laundry detergent, you are cutting in half both the detergent chemicals and the chemicals which create the suds. You will therefore get less suds but you will also get less detergent in your wash.

[Kanus]

Therefore if you are using normal laundry detergent in a HE machine and you cut in half the amount of normal laundry detergent, you are cutting in half both the detergent chemicals and the chemicals which create the suds. You will therefore get less suds but you will also get less detergent in your wash.

If you cut the detergent i nhalf but only use half the volume of water, the concentration of the detergent is still the same so it should work fine as long as it doesn't produce too much suds.

[tfragoso]

Kirkland HE detergent has two options: powder (120 loads) and liquid (90 loads) at the same price.

Do your research on FL washers especailly on the model you are looking for. Each model has its own issues.

[hoob]

I'm just trying to look into this more before considering the regular stuff.
..BY free stuff I hope you mean, perfume free? So they even have a Tide HE Ultra and its smaller than the HE bottles? Now thats gonna start to become confusing.

Yes... The old Tide HE (Normal) that I used is a 2.95L bottle rated for 26 loads. The new Tide Ultra HE is in a 1.47L bottle and is rated for 32 loads. I've also seen the regular non-Free stuff in Ultra HE as well. http://www.tide.com/en_CA/products/product.jsp?product=tide_he_liquid_free

Yes, by "Free" I mean the white "Free of perfumes and dyes".

[mannyb]

I tried both HE and regular liquid detergent when I got my LG front load WM 2 years ago. I could not tell the difference so I use the regular detergent. If in doubt, try the test yourself and if one works better for you, then go that route.

[Dustbunny]

I asked a service tech about this when they did a 1 yr check on my machine. He told me sometimes you can get away with it but depending on which machine you have you may be jeopardizing the seal and also in some machines the extra suds can overflow into the back of the machine which can cause all sorts of problems. Of course, warranty is not valid as wrong soap was used.

If you want to see the power of sudsing agents, put your regular dish washing soap in your dishwasher and watch the door blow open from the suds (even when you just use a bit). When machines need special soaps, they are usually not merely suggestions.

Also it doesn't make sense to compare a smaller amount of regular detergent with the HE. Let's say an HE bottle says it does 100 loads for $10 and a reg detergent does 100 loads for $5. The average HE machine holds at least 3 times more clothes than the average top loader so you have to factor that in (meaning regular soap now costs you $15 for the same amount of clothes cleaning). Now add in the FL uses less water and you have got to feel the need for the right surfactant/suds combo to get the optimum performance from the machine. You aren't going to get that by reducing the amount of regular detergent because now (using half a single load amount) you just reduced the surfactants to amounts suitable to do 1/6th of your load. So that was a real saving... your soap now cost you $7.50 (because you used half as much as the bottle said to use) instead of $10 and your clothes are probably not as clean and you risked your machine instead of just paying another $2.50/100 loads (which is probably enough to mean nearly a year of 2 loads/week).

Meanwhile, it seems like false economy to me to pay $1000+ for the washer and then buy the wrong soap to save a few dollars a year.

If you watch your prices and buy on sale or in bulk (like Costco) HE is not that expensive at all. It also seems to last forever and like anything else, you can get away with using a bit less than the little cup tells you so you get more loads/bottle. You just have to remember, you are washing a lot of clothes with each load and your clothes are going to last longer (because there is no agitator and no soap residue) so it's worth every penny to have your FL working as intended.

[Neb]

We got our whirlpool duet a year ago. been using HE in it. Price for detergent is usually the same when it's on sale. Walmart or your local grocers usually have them on sale at the same time. however the HE is always sold out before the reg detergents. Just got in the mail from the City of Toronto. 5 x 4 dollars off Tide HE detergent. so technically when they go onsale for 7.99. it's 3.99 for 32loads. :) time to stock up enough detergents for years.

[urban1]

I usually use the Sunlight MultiAction Concentrate. Usually can find this on sale for $5.99 or less and theres been a lot of coupons as well since its a relatively new product. The HE stuff is always priced at the same level as the regular stuff. Im not sure where you guys are shopping that you are saying the HE is double the price of the regualr version of the same detergent.

[CheapScotsman]

[COLOR="Navy"]....Last time I checked the costs for leading brand HE detergent is about $8-$10 a bottle, and liquid non-HE detergent can be had for $4 or less sometimes. That sounds like 2X the price to me.
Correct me if im wrong about your post, are you saying your using the big boxed powdered detergent in your front loader machine? Now I hear thats a big No-No! Also a sudsing nightmare waiting to happen.

Well, we haven't bought detergent in over 2 years cause that how long that 8.8kg box has lasted ... but I go shopping today/tomorrow so I will check it out.

Yes, we use regular big boxed powdered non HE detergent in our front load washer.
No, its not a big no-no; our instruction manual says you can use non-he detergent.
We have never had a sudsing issue. We use 50ml instead of the suggested (on the box) 300ml. Work clothes come out super clean and we have been doing it that way for almost 7 years.

[CheapScotsman]

We got our whirlpool duet a year ago. been using HE in it. Price for detergent is usually the same when it's on sale. Walmart or your local grocers usually have them on sale at the same time. however the HE is always sold out before the reg detergents. Just got in th email from the City of Toronto. 5 x 4 dollars off Tide HE detergent. so technically when they go onsale for 7.99. it's 3.99 for 32loads. :) time to stock up enough detergents for years.
Well, I haven't bought detergent in about two years but that doesn't sound cheap. We use regular Sunlight non-he detergent and the box claims 90 loads at 300ml of detergent per load. We only use 50ml so that bumps us to about 500 loads ... and the box is probably only $12.

[hoob]

Yes, we use regular big boxed powdered non HE detergent in our front load washer.
No, its not a big no-no; our instruction manual says you can use non-he detergent.
We have never had a sudsing issue. We use 50ml instead of the suggested (on the box) 300ml. Work clothes come out super clean and we have been doing it that way for almost 7 years.

Given that your washer is 7yo, even though it's a front load its water-efficiency design is likely quite a bit worse than modern front-load washers. Anything sold 7 years ago was certainly designed at the forefront to handle non-HE consumables since HE wasn't widely available.

With EnergyStar targets increasing regularly, it's quite possible that many current models mandate HE liquid.

ANother reason I prefer HE Ultra liquid is that it's easier to haul from the parking garage :D

[CheapScotsman]

:arrowu: Well, it is 7 years old

From sears.ca

Kenmore HE3 uses 13 to 26 gallons with Energuide of 286
Duet Sport uses 12 to ??? gallons with Energuide of 168
Duet uses 14 to 19 gallons with Energuide of 182
All of these machines come with 1 year on everything (at least from Sears website) [EDIT] ... okay, the service manual for the Duets has 5 for the motor and lifetime for the metal drum

My machine uses 19 to 26 gallons with a enerGuide rating of 351kmh. It came with 5 years on the motor and lifetime on the metal tub .. so I guess it uses anywhere from the same to 50% more water and about double the electrical ... guess I made the savings up on detergent.

[Neovingian]

I usually use the Sunlight MultiAction Concentrate. Usually can find this on sale for $5.99 or less and theres been a lot of coupons as well since its a relatively new product. The HE stuff is always priced at the same level as the regular stuff. Im not sure where you guys are shopping that you are saying the HE is double the price of the regualr version of the same detergent....Maybe i'm shopping at the wrong places & I need to start collecting coupons.

We got our whirlpool duet a year ago. been using HE in it. Price for detergent is usually the same when it's on sale. Walmart or your local grocers usually have them on sale at the same time. however the HE is always sold out before the reg detergents. Just got in the mail from the City of Toronto. 5 x 4 dollars off Tide HE detergent. so technically when they go onsale for 7.99. it's 3.99 for 32loads. :) time to stock up enough detergents for years.....I never got those CIty of T.O coupons. I think the HE detergents are selling out faster since most new housing developments insist in including washer/dryer combos which usually include front loading wahsers. What I'd like to know is if anyone is using HE detergent in their top loading washer? and if there's any point?

I asked a service tech about this when they did a 1 yr check on my machine. He told me sometimes you can get away with it but depending on which machine you have you may be jeopardizing the seal and also in some machines the extra suds can overflow into the back of the machine which can cause all sorts of problems. Of course, warranty is not valid as wrong soap was used.

If you want to see the power of sudsing agents, put your regular dish washing soap in your dishwasher and watch the door blow open from the suds (even when you just use a bit). When machines need special soaps, they are usually not merely suggestions.

Also it doesn't make sense to compare a smaller amount of regular detergent with the HE. Let's say an HE bottle says it does 100 loads for $10 and a reg detergent does 100 loads for $5. The average HE machine holds at least 3 times more clothes than the average top loader so you have to factor that in (meaning regular soap now costs you $15 for the same amount of clothes cleaning). Now add in the FL uses less water and you have got to feel the need for the right surfactant/suds combo to get the optimum performance from the machine. You aren't going to get that by reducing the amount of regular detergent because now (using half a single load amount) you just reduced the surfactants to amounts suitable to do 1/6th of your load. So that was a real saving... your soap now cost you $7.50 (because you used half as much as the bottle said to use) instead of $10 and your clothes are probably not as clean and you risked your machine instead of just paying another $2.50/100 loads (which is probably enough to mean nearly a year of 2 loads/week).

Meanwhile, it seems like false economy to me to pay $1000+ for the washer and then buy the wrong soap to save a few dollars a year.

If you watch your prices and buy on sale or in bulk (like Costco) HE is not that expensive at all. It also seems to last forever and like anything else, you can get away with using a bit less than the little cup tells you so you get more loads/bottle. You just have to remember, you are washing a lot of clothes with each load and your clothes are going to last longer (because there is no agitator and no soap residue) so it's worth every penny to have your FL working as intended....Couldn't agree with you more, I never knew not using HE detergent would void the warranty in some machines? How do they prove this? Do they do suds test?

Well, we haven't bought detergent in over 2 years cause that how long that 8.8kg box has lasted ... but I go shopping today/tomorrow so I will check it out.

Yes, we use regular big boxed powdered non HE detergent in our front load washer.
No, its not a big no-no; our instruction manual says you can use non-he detergent.
We have never had a sudsing issue. We use 50ml instead of the suggested (on the box) 300ml. Work clothes come out super clean and we have been doing it that way for almost 7 years....Thats prolly why you think HE & regular detergent are about the same price. Also a 7yr old FL would differ from a current gen FL so the required detergents would vary. Thats 7yr that they had to improve on the technology & efficiency.

Given that your washer is 7yo, even though it's a front load its water-efficiency design is likely quite a bit worse than modern front-load washers. Anything sold 7 years ago was certainly designed at the forefront to handle non-HE consumables since HE wasn't widely available.

With EnergyStar targets increasing regularly, it's quite possible that many current models mandate HE liquid.

ANother reason I prefer HE Ultra liquid is that it's easier to haul from the parking garage :D Yup after recently shopping for applicances, I I'm almost certain all current gen models mandate HE detergnet...If your talking about lugging 1 bottle of HE detergent, I don't think there's a noticable difference in weight of HE Ultra & Non Ultra HE liquid Detergnet.

Has anyone seen or know of a current gen FL washer that accecpts powered HE detergent.

[Dustbunny]

...Couldn't agree with you more, I never knew not using HE detergent would void the warranty in some machines? How do they prove this? Do they do suds test?

He didn't say but I imagine they see it enough to know what the signs are (especially if it's suds going into the back of the machine).

[rf134a]

Costco has 96 load Tide & Tide HE for $23.99. There used to be a premium for HE detergent but not anymore. Interestingly enough, only President's Choice makes Dark detergent for HE machines.

[CanadianMoFo]

http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B000FRUWKQ/sr=1-0/qid=1185537694/ref=sr_1_0/105-8138170-3236438?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=APS


I've used this Kenmore brand HE detergent for a couple years. It's on sale right now for $17.24 for a box that does 125 washes. I get a 4-5 boxes of it on sale and it lasts my family of 4 about a year. Can't beat the price. And it does a good job getting my clothes clean as far as I can tell.

CM

[ERIKAAMORRIS]

http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B000FRUWKQ/sr=1-0/qid=1185537694/ref=sr_1_0/105-8138170-3236438?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=APS


I've used this Kenmore brand HE detergent for a couple years. It's on sale right now for $17.24 for a box that does 125 washes. I get a 4-5 boxes of it on sale and it lasts my family of 4 about a year. Can't beat the price. And it does a good job getting my clothes clean as far as I can tell.

CM

and you can use the sears.ca coupons!

[etam888]

Where did you find Gain HE? It was highly rated by Consumer Reports but I haven't seen it in any stores in Canada.

I found Gain HE at Pharmaprix here in Quebec. Check at Shoppers Drug Mart if you're elsewhere in Canada.

[chadzwife]

I buy Sun detergent. It will give me 100 loads for $6. The HE detergent, at Sam's Club mind you, is **$20** for 110 loads. Now, I learn I DO INDEED have to buy the HE stuff! :( :( :( It will void my warranty if I don't, etc.
How in the world is this saving me money in any way, shape or form?
I can not get more clothes in my new HE (top loader) washer either. In fact, it holds LESS. They sit on top and don't get washed. No, I do not load beyond the top row of holes in the basket as per the manual. In fact, l load way below, hence why I am not doing as big loads as I was in my former agitator washer.
I thot these washers were supposed to shoot water out the holes in the basket too to move the clothes around like the agitator used to. I checked several times a cycle and the clothes ARE N O T moving. The salesman said he saw a demo with a glass washer and they watched the clothes moving around and up and down thru the load. I say, BS!
I am disappointed in my washer and now I have to spend over THREE times the amount for detergent?? Geesh. We are frikkin poor (no one's fault on here I know LOL) and the washer is bought with a loan from my dad till my student loan for college pays out in Oct.
2x really isn't the same as HE, huh? So maddening to me...and frustrating as I DID research before purchasing my new washer and all my friends have FLs and use less regular det...SIGH