Backyard Fence Issue

[mallik]

I needed a fence put up in my backyard, as did everybody else in my area, and there was a guy who had a construction company who offered to do it.

Back around April I had a notice on my door about a meeting regarding fences. I thought it might be from the builder but it was from this construction company. He was trying to get everybody to go through him and he said he would offer a deal. Not that many people showed up to the meeting, but I heard what he had to say and left.

A couple of days later there was a paper on my door. It was a quote for the fence from this guy and basically a contract that he wanted me to sign. The price was decent but it was nothing special, so I never signed it and started looking around and comparing prices. My neighbour on one side signed the contract with this guy because he wanted a fence up ASAP (he always has people over and he wanted the privacy). The neighbour on the other side was looking around at other companies like I was and he found some better prices. He was also considering putting up the fence himself which I had also thought about.

Fast forward to about 2-3 weeks ago there was another contract on my door from the same guy, which I again didn't sign. This past week he started putting up the fences starting at one end and working his way down. I figured when he got to my yard he would leave it but when I came home the other day the fence was completely put up. I was surprised that he did it so quickly.

Anyways, I figure he's going to come around to collect money and I was thinking about what I should do. I figure that I'm not the only one who didn't sign a contract and I'm pretty sure he did everybody's yard. What could he do if I told him that I didn't agree for him to do my yard and to stuff it?

[Diamondog]

He can't do squat as a matter of fact if he has dug up your yard by putting this fence he has caused you damage and is liable.

[BuildingHomes]

Look up your municipal bylaws for shared fencing.

If it's like most municipalities, an agreement will be required among neighbours. If no agreement can be made, then the opposing home owner will be liable for what it costs for a basic chain-link fence. Any costs over an above that would be paid for by the home owner who order the fence in the first place.

It varies a little bit from place to place, but definately check out what your local bylaws are.

[Dustbunny]

Sounds like he's either stupid or trying to force people into using his company. Either way he loses. By consumer laws, you are not required to pay for anything you did not order, request, sign for (and he's the one who has to prove you did order it). The only difference I can see here is if your other neighbours (who you share a property line with) agreed and if your municipality says you 'must' share the cost. Each municipality is different so you might want to find out what they are where you live.

Where I live there is no automatic sharing law and it's all done by agreement or no fence goes up on the property line. So if my neighbour wants a new fence and I can't/won't agree to split the cost, or if I don't even want a fence, and they build one anyway on the property line, I can have them remove it. Here a non-shared fence has to be built back off the property line a foot or so (I think, can't remember exact distance). They could build a fence on the property line, without me sharing cost, only if I agree prior to it being put in.

I could see some people getting really steamed at this if they had other plans (like a different fence design for instance). I would say if he comes after you remind him you did not agree and tell him it isn't even the type of fence you want and as suggested, he has damaged your property. You might also check to make sure he even has the thing on the proper property line because if it isn't that is going to be a big headache. Also, what if he hasn't built the thing right (by your local guidelines for posts for instance)? What if it becomes a liability in some way? Is he going to fix it? Does it have a warranty? If not you might want him to pull it out, at his own expense and return your property to it's original condition or compensate you for the damage done.

I can't imagine what it would be like to come home and find a fence up. That would really make me angry and someone would have some explaining to do.

[Melfice]

Another note, if your other neighbors signed the agreement and you didn't, they have to send you a mail via registered mail to informe you that they have sign an agreement with so so about putting up a fence, and wants you to pay your share. All 3 (two side by side, and one behind you, assume that's how your house is sitting.) have to sign the letter. If they didn't do that, then you don't have to pay the contractor. If he takes you to court, then you can say he didn't do it right. Also, check with your lawyer too. In most city, the by-law is you pay for the price of 4 ft chain link fence.

[spdztr]

I can't believe that he would be able to drill the postholes, set the cement, and put up the fence all in one day. Doesn't the cement need a day or two to cure?
Did he also do your neighbour's who was on your side for not wanting to use the guy? Which company was it by the way, so we know?

[Melfice]

So mallik, did you got the issue settle? Or you going to pay the contractor?

[TrevorK]

I can't believe that he would be able to drill the postholes, set the cement, and put up the fence all in one day. Doesn't the cement need a day or two to cure?
Did he also do your neighbour's who was on your side for not wanting to use the guy? Which company was it by the way, so we know?

Who said he even used cement?

Most of the cheap company around here just sink the poles into the ground.

[mlc2000]

I can't believe that he would be able to drill the postholes, set the cement, and put up the fence all in one day. Doesn't the cement need a day or two to cure?
Did he also do your neighbour's who was on your side for not wanting to use the guy? Which company was it by the way, so we know?

1 day for cement to cure is about right.

[venice_it]

I think cities should make builders install quality fences to end a lot of these problems and just bury the costs in the home price.

[sixer]

I can't believe that he would be able to drill the postholes, set the cement, and put up the fence all in one day. Doesn't the cement need a day or two to cure?
Did he also do your neighbour's who was on your side for not wanting to use the guy? Which company was it by the way, so we know?

I did mine and cement cured in 20mins. It was the instant stuff.

[spdztr]

Who said he even used cement?

Most of the cheap company around here just sink the poles into the ground.

Really??? Wow... I always see the cement mixers around my area when fences are going in. I guess it's possible....

I did mine and cement cured in 20mins. It was the instant stuff.

Interesting...

Any updates OP??

[Pete_Coach]

To the OP, if the fence completely surrounds your property, perhaps the folks on all sides of you signed up. They probably put the fence up on their property (vice the property line) and it belongs to them. You may not have to pay??
We have some folks in my neighborhood who have two fences on one side of their yard because they could not agree on a style :lol:

[glaswegian]

To do a 6x6 post, with 1 ft lattice or solid, how much has to be buried into the ground with gravel and cement?

[mystical2003]

To do a 6x6 post, with 1 ft lattice or solid, how much has to be buried into the ground with gravel and cement?


That depends on the frost line in your area. Generally 4 feet is safe.

[glaswegian]

thx for that. I ask because I saw home depot had the 6x6 post in 10 and 12 feet long, so if am looking to have a 7ft fence, then 10` should be ideal with 3ft in the ground

[adrian123]

Hi Malik;

I would get advice from a lawyer if I were you

Next move from this scumbag might be to lien your house. Whether its legal or not is irrelevant. He's already shown he doesnt give a hoot for property rights.

Some contractors consider liening your house a sales technique

Yes you are in the right but maybe he'll be counting on you not paying thousands of dollars to defend yourself.

Best Regards

[tomincanada]

Next move from this scumbag might be to lien your house. Whether its legal or not is irrelevant. He's already shown he doesnt give a hoot for property rights.

Some contractors consider liening your house a sales technique

Yes you are in the right but maybe he'll be counting on you not paying thousands of dollars to defend yourself.


If there is no contract he's going to have one heck of a time putting a lien on the house...

[3weddings]

Hi Malik;

I would get advice from a lawyer if I were you

Next move from this scumbag might be to lien your house. Whether its legal or not is irrelevant. He's already shown he doesnt give a hoot for property rights.

Some contractors consider liening your house a sales technique

Yes you are in the right but maybe he'll be counting on you not paying thousands of dollars to defend yourself.

Best Regards

You took the words right out of my mouth!! Many contractors are lien crazy! But since he doesn't have a signed contract from you, he may not be able to!

I have to agree with the comment about the fence being on the adjoining neighbours' sides. Was your view of the fence finished?

[mallik]

Sorry for the lack of updates, here is the latest: I didn't see any of them around for a while and then last week somebody came by. I wasn't home so my mother talked to him.

The best part is that he's even asking for more than what he originally quoted on the paper he left on my door. My mother told him that it's a lot of money etc. and she said that nobody even signed for anything. When she said that the neighbour, the one that had agreed for them to put up a fence, was outside and overheard so he said that he didn't sign anything either. My mother told him to come back the next day. He came back a few days later but I wasn't home again. My mother answered again and told him to come back another day.

The last time he came by I was home so I finally talked to him. I asked him what the deal was and that nobody agreed to anything etc. He said that he talked to my mother before they started and she said if everybody around us is getting it done then to go ahead. This is a lie, so I said that I would have to talk to her about it. He starts complaining saying that my mother said she would have a cheque for him and he's had to come back a few times and how this isn't right etc. I just told him that nobody is home and that somebody will call him.

Still trying to decide what I should do. Should I just try to negotiate a price with him and be done with it or not pay him anything? I don't really mind the way the fence looks or anything but I don't like the way these guys operate.

[Dustbunny]

Seems to me you should be over and talking to that neighbour who said he didn't agree to anything either when your mom was talking to the guy. Then go to the other neighbours and see if they agreed to anything and what they are experiencing with this guy. If you find there are a few houses that didn't agree and also ended up with a surprise fence you can work as a group to tell this guy to go away or to work a deal which doesn't give him any profit (maybe pay for materials only). He had no business putting up fences without permission and then expecting to be paid. There are consumer laws about this sort of thing and he won't have a leg to stand on if he can't prove people ordered fences. If this is how he is operating he deserves to learn his lesson.

It's too bad but this is no way to operate a business. It was his responsibility to have the home owners sign a work order or contract for a fence before he started. I doubt he can even put a lien on your house without proving he had a contract (but you might want to check with whatever association is around which oversees home improvement/landscaping businesses). You never know, one of your neighbours who also didn't give permission may be a lawyer or have some other info which might help clear this all up.

Whatever, don't get pressured to pay until you are sure you are comfortable with what has happened. One part of that is checking to ensure that fence is actually on property lines or have him remove it. There is nothing like a hassle of fence off line if anyone ever wants to sell.

[mlc2000]

Get a surveyor in to properly mark the property lines.
No exceptions.

Believe me, you'll be happy once the fence goes up,
so you never have to look at this A-Hole when you're in your own yard.

[retroman80s]

Some of these damn fence contractor guys are just full of BS. For example a friend of mines was told he was the only guy that haven't agreed in the area and is holding back the development. Later he went to ask his neighbours and no one had agreed to put up the fence.

[hagbard]

Sorry for the lack of updates, here is the latest: I didn't see any of them around for a while and then last week somebody came by. I wasn't home so my mother talked to him.

The best part is that he's even asking for more than what he originally quoted on the paper he left on my door. My mother told him that it's a lot of money etc. and she said that nobody even signed for anything. When she said that the neighbour, the one that had agreed for them to put up a fence, was outside and overheard so he said that he didn't sign anything either. My mother told him to come back the next day. He came back a few days later but I wasn't home again. My mother answered again and told him to come back another day.

The last time he came by I was home so I finally talked to him. I asked him what the deal was and that nobody agreed to anything etc. He said that he talked to my mother before they started and she said if everybody around us is getting it done then to go ahead. This is a lie, so I said that I would have to talk to her about it. He starts complaining saying that my mother said she would have a cheque for him and he's had to come back a few times and how this isn't right etc. I just told him that nobody is home and that somebody will call him.

Still trying to decide what I should do. Should I just try to negotiate a price with him and be done with it or not pay him anything? I don't really mind the way the fence looks or anything but I don't like the way these guys operate.

Scam. The guy doesn't get an agreement with anyone, does the work anyway then expects everyone to pay what he wants. Luckily, I don't think he has any leg to stand on in court. If he does anything to the fence, I'm sure he's liable for any damages caused. BTW, I wouldn't agree to pay this guy even a dime, if you do, you're effectively accepting responsibility. See a lawyer.

[butter]

Just hope that this "fence builder" doesn't retaliate by doing something to your house or property.

Just curious, do you need a permit to build a fence?

[hugh_da_man]

Sounds like you got yourself a free fence.

Take pictures and keep all correspondence from the fence builder. He can't tear it down because that would be illegal and he can't force you to pay because you never signed anything allowing him to do the work.

[blacken]

thx for that. I ask because I saw home depot had the 6x6 post in 10 and 12 feet long, so if am looking to have a 7ft fence, then 10` should be ideal with 3ft in the ground

Depending on where you are - but in Ontario I'd make sure it's 4ft to be below the frost line. Especially if you're heading for a 7ft fence.

[curtis]

It would be awfully funny if your mom really did say that, and he got it on tape.

Sorry for the lack of updates, here is the latest: I didn't see any of them around for a while and then last week somebody came
by. I wasn't home so my mother talked to him.

The best part is that he's even asking for more than what he originally quoted on the paper he left on my door. My mother told him that it's a lot of money etc. and she said that nobody even signed for anything. When she said that the neighbour, the one that had agreed for them to put up a fence, was outside and overheard so he said that he didn't sign anything either. My mother told him to come back the next day. He came back a few days later but I wasn't home again. My mother answered again and told him to come back another day.

The last time he came by I was home so I finally talked to him. I asked him what the deal was and that nobody agreed to anything etc. He said that he talked to my mother before they started and she said if everybody around us is getting it done then to go ahead. This is a lie, so I said that I would have to talk to her about it. He starts complaining saying that my mother said she would have a cheque for him and he's had to come back a few times and how this isn't right etc. I just told him that nobody is home and that somebody will call him.

Still trying to decide what I should do. Should I just try to negotiate a price with him and be done with it or not pay him anything? I don't really mind the way the fence looks or anything but I don't like the way these guys operate.

[glaswegian]

True....I am in Ontario, but 6x6 posts don't come in 11ft, they come in 10' and 12', so to have 4ft in the ground, and 7 above, I guess I'll have to chop a ft off, as the city bylaw only allows max 7ft height



Depending on where you are - but in Ontario I'd make sure it's 4ft to be below the frost line. Especially if you're heading for a 7ft fence.